What Do You Think of Combat Sports?

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I watch MMA fights and boxing and know people who compete in them. I can appreciate the nuances of competition, the skill-sets involved, the tactical skills necessary to do well in them. Someone has to be really smart to be able to do that since it demands a lot of strategy and quick adjustments. Still, I can't come to terms with the objective of inflicting such trauma to someone's brain, making it bang against the walls of the skull, that they fall unconscious. I guess the main argument for making it legal is like the ones for prostitution and drug distribution -- that it is better to be subject to legal standards and sets of rules, with quick access to medical care if needed, than to be driven underground, chaotically and violently controlled by competing organized crime gangs.
  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
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    Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

    I watch MMA fights and boxing and know people who compete in them. I can appreciate the nuances of competition, the skill-sets involved, the tactical skills necessary to do well in them. Someone has to be really smart to be able to do that since it demands a lot of strategy and quick adjustments. Still, I can't come to terms with the objective of inflicting such trauma to someone's brain, making it bang against the walls of the skull, that they fall unconscious. I guess the main argument for making it legal is like the ones for prostitution and drug distribution -- that it is better to be subject to legal standards and sets of rules, with quick access to medical care if needed, than to be driven underground, chaotically and violently controlled by competing organized crime gangs.
    While I can appreciate all of the rationale that you so intelligently stated, my personal opinion is that all sports of this type are participated in by Neanderthals, for the enjoyment of Neanderthals. And that would be Neanderthals with a particular type of psychotic blood lust.

    Now that I have made myself even more popular than usual - my work here is done. :-)

    Cheers. - Frank

    P.S. Aren't you glad you asked? :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

    Someone has to be really smart to be able to do that since it demands a lot of strategy and quick adjustments.
    Or, they could be like a guy that went to my high school . . . dumb as a rock with an extremely high pain tolerance. He never lost a fight because you couldn't hurt him.
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Or, they could be like a guy that went to my high school . . . dumb as a rock with an extremely high pain tolerance. He never lost a fight because you couldn't hurt him.
      That can only get a person so far in skilled competition. Anyway, if rock is so dumb, how come they still play it on the radio? The MMA fighters I personally know are highly intelligent and well-educated and actually friendlier than most people I cross paths with. It is a weird duality, considering what they do in the ring.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
        Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

        It is a weird duality, considering what they do in the ring.
        Possibly because they have a distinct physical outlet for their aggression and rage. Most folks just push it down and it bubbles and roils under the surface.

        As for what I think, I can still remember where I was and whom I was with when I watched the very first UFC. I enjoyed it then and was a big fan. I was in awe of Royce Gracie because I'd never seen such a tactician before.

        As I've gotten older, I've lost my stomach for the sport.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          Possibly because they have a distinct physical outlet for their aggression and rage. Most folks just push it down and it bubbles and roils under the surface.

          As for what I think, I can still remember where I was and whom I was with when I watched the very first UFC. I enjoyed it then and was a big fan. I was in awe of Royce Gracie because I'd never seen such a tactician before.

          As I've gotten older, I've lost my stomach for the sport.
          I enjoyed MMA more too when it first came out. I liked watching the experts in totally different styles compete.


          Now, they all train in all the styles and I don't find it as interesting. This generation of people like Jon Jones are young enough that they grew up with MMA and trained in all the martial arts to become MMA fighters.There's no doubt they're better fighters now, but that doesn't make it more entertaining.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            I enjoyed MMA more too when it first came out. I liked watching the experts in totally different styles compete.


            Now, they all train in all the styles and I don't find it as interesting. This generation of people like Jon Jones are young enough that they grew up with MMA and trained in all the martial arts to become MMA fighters.There's no doubt they're better fighters now, but that doesn't make it more entertaining.

            This precisely. I also liked it better when the "mixed martial art" aspect was various different arts, rather than "mixed martial art" being the actual art. I can still picture the fight between Keith Hackney, a Kenpo artist, and Emmanul Yarburough, a freakin' Sumo wrestler. Such different styles it was almost like a side show, at least until Hackney started pounding Yarburough's skull to a pulp.

            Speaking of:

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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

              This precisely. I, also, liked it better when the "mixed martial art" aspect was various different arts, rather than "mixed martial art" being the actual art. I can still picture the fight between Keith Hackney, a Kenpo artist, and Emmanul Yarburough, a freakin' Sumo wrestler. Such different styles it was almost like a side show, at least until Hackney started pounding Yarburough's skull to a pulp.
              Yeah, in the early days it seemed more like judo vs. wrestling than man vs man.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          In MMA, I don't like when they hit someone on the ground after they knocked them down. And in both MMA and boxing, I actually wish they had to wear head gear like amateur boxers do, even though I know the majority of fans and fighters disagree with me.
          I, however, agree with you.

          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          As I've gotten older, I've lost my stomach for the sport.
          Same here. I used to watch it when I was younger, but no more.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          Possibly because they have a distinct physical outlet for their aggression and rage. Most folks just push it down and it bubbles and roils under the surface.
          .
          And you can afford to be far more easy going, when you don't perceive anyone else as a threat.

          I have some knowledge of this. The knockouts you see are mostly caused by kinking the neck against the brain stem. It can be from a strike to the chin, an overhead strike, or by causing the head to tilt back rapidly. It takes very little strength to do this. Faith Healing preachers cause their people to fall back in ecstasy, by using the same technique.

          That kind of blow isn't strong enough to cause a concussion. Most of the concussions come from hitting the head against the canvas really hard, (from being hit and bouncing off the floor) or from a really violent kick to the head.

          Of course, being hit in the head while groggy, by a trained heavyweight, doesn't help.

          The choke outs and jiu jitsu submissions don't leave permanent damage.

          I also cringe when I see someone getting beaten to a pulp, when they have clearly lost.

          Watching high level jiu jitsu, is awe inspiring to me. Maybe because I have no expertise in it.

          It's revealing to me that none of the top competitors say that they are Kung Fu martial artists.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


            I have some knowledge of this.

            Well, there's a shocker.
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          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            The choke outs and jiu jitsu submissions don't leave permanent damage.

            I also cringe when I see someone getting beaten to a pulp, when they have clearly lost.

            Watching high level jiu jitsu, is awe inspiring to me. Maybe because I have no expertise in it.

            It's revealing to me that none of the top competitors say that they are Kung Fu martial artists.
            Yeah, I enjoy watching great Jiu-Jitsu fighters as well, but it's hard to watch some of those guys that have no standup skills and little other skill take a beating trying to pull off a submission they rarely ever get in a high level MMA match. Probably my favorite MMA martial art is Mauy Thai, and I rarely ever miss the Lion Fights when they are televised.

            As far as MMA skills go, straight Kung Fu fighters rarely ever make it to the top of the MMA game for many reasons. That said, one of my favorite MMA fighters is Big Country Roy Nelson and he has practiced Shaolin Kung Fu for a very long time, in-fact that is where he got his start in the martial arts.

            Dude also has very heavy hands, and black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu under Renzo Gracie, so even with his body type he is a very well rounded MMA fighter.


            To make it big in MMA you definitely need a bit more than just "traditional Kung Fu skills and training", and to make it to the top, generally speaking, you need a combination of several skills including Jiu-Jitsu, Mauy Thai, Wrestling/ Grappling, Kick Boxing, and/or Boxing...you don't need them all, but a combination of 2 or 3 or more certainly does help.

            That said, I do enjoy MMA as it's less corrupt than boxing is, and has been, and many say it's safer in the long term than some of the more traditional sports are. If one wants to worry about injuries and deaths maybe we should ban cigarette smoking and alcohol.

            I can't wait to see Meisha fight tomorrow night on "free tv", but I am not paying for the Spider fight. I won't miss UFC 184 (Rhonda Rousy vs Cat Zingano, Chris Weidman vs Vitor Belfort, Raquel Pennington vs Holly Holm and Jake Ellenberger vs Josh Koscheck) and it should be a great night of MMA action.

            Another guy I like to watch who uses a little traditional Karate and Kung Fu style is "Bruce LeeRoy" Alex Caceras. And let's not forget about Judo, Rhonda Rousy has some of the best throws in the business. One of the best things I like about MMA fighters is most the top level guys are not rocks --> they have college degrees, it's been reported that something like 70% of the high level fighters have college degrees.

            Cheers

            -don
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            • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
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              Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

              <snip>

              Another guy I like to watch who uses a little traditional Karate and Kung Fu style is "Bruce LeeRoy" Alex Caceras.

              Cheers

              -don
              Bruce LeeRoy" Alex Caceras is also a character and has charisma. I think he could make a great actor. I enjoy watching Lyoto Machida fight with Karate techniques.
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              • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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                Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

                Bruce LeeRoy" Alex Caceras is along a character and has charisma. I think he could make a great actor. I enjoy watching Lyoto Machine fight with Karate techniques.
                Yeah, for sure. Lyoto is fun to watch, and dude has fought the who's who of MMA starting with Stephan Bonnar and Rich Franklin way back in 2003, and he is still fighting the best in the sport today. The Dragon has a black belts in both Shotokan Karate (3rd Dan) and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Some may not remember that Machida was also a Brazilian Sumo champ before he ventured into MMA.

                FWIW, I just heard the Weidman fight at 184 has been postponed due to a rib injury Chris suffered during training.

                Cheers

                -don
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    • Profile picture of the author socialentry
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      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Or, they could be like a guy that went to my high school . . . dumb as a rock with an extremely high pain tolerance. He never lost a fight because you couldn't hurt him.
      You mean like Kimbo Slice?
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        You mean like Kimbo Slice?
        Wait. You passed up a shot at a Mike Tyson reference?!

        It's like I don't even know you.
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        • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          Or, they could be like a guy that went to my high school . . . dumb as a rock with an extremely high pain tolerance. He never lost a fight because you couldn't hurt him.
          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          Wait. You passed up a shot at a Mike Tyson reference?!
          While he was not the sharpest knife in the drawer, in most of his fights Iron knocked his opponent out long before his opponent had laid much of a glove on him. I think he scored at least 21 first round KOs in his career. His average fight time was just over 3 rounds, and it was a lot less about Mike's chin, and much more about his punching power and aggressiveness.



          Mike Tyson - Ring Record

          Cheers

          -don
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          • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
            Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

            While he was not the sharpest knife in the drawer, i<snip>
            Mike Tyson has problems but he is far from stupid. Foolish, maybe. Stupid, no.
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          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

            While he was not the sharpest knife in the drawer, in most of his fights Iron knocked his opponent out long before his opponent had laid much of a glove on him. I think he scored at least 21 first round KOs in his career. His average fight time was just over 3 rounds, and it was a lot less about Mike's chin, and much more about his punching power and aggressiveness.



            Mike Tyson - Ring Record

            Cheers

            -don
            I used to hate having a fight party when Tyson was reigning. Either it was a too quick knockout or something "weird" would happen during the fight.

            We called it the Don King effect.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        You mean like Kimbo Slice?
        Never heard of him. I haven't paid any attention to the fight scene in years.
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        • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          Never heard of him. I haven't paid any attention to the fight scene in years.
          He's a YouTube street fighter with few MMA skills that had a very short UFC run.

          Cheers

          -don
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        You mean like Kimbo Slice?
        Kimbo is a character... Matt Mitrione pounded him out in the second round in his second sanctioned UFC fight, and prior to that, Roy Nelson put him in the crucifix and pounded him out in the second round in his first fight on TUF.

        That said, Bellator has signed Kimbo (and his lack of MMA skills) for another MMA run. Too bad Bellator seems to be more into the entertainment aspect of "sports entertainment" these days. It seems as if they are trying to create an over the hill division so I guess Kimbo fits nicely into those plans.

        Cheers

        -don
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

    I watch MMA fights and boxing and know people who compete in them. I can appreciate the nuances of competition, the skill-sets involved, the tactical skills necessary to do well in them. Someone has to be really smart to be able to do that since it demands a lot of strategy and quick adjustments. Still, I can't come to terms with the objective of inflicting such trauma to someone's brain, making it bang against the walls of the skull, that they fall unconscious. I guess the main argument for making it legal is like the ones for prostitution and drug distribution -- that it is better to be subject to legal standards and sets of rules, with quick access to medical care if needed, than to be driven underground, chaotically and violently controlled by competing organized crime gangs.
    I have similar issues. I like MMA and boxing, as well as football. But I have mixed feeling as it feels I'm getting my entertainment at the expense of someone else's well-being.


    In MMA, I don't like when they hit someone on the ground after they knocked them down. And in both MMA and boxing, I actually wish they had to wear head gear like amateur boxers do, even though I know the majority of fans and fighters disagree with me.
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    • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      In MMA, I don't like when they hit someone on the ground after they knocked them down. And in both MMA and boxing, I actually wish they had to wear head gear like amateur boxers do, even though I know the majority of fans and fighters disagree with me.
      Kurt, I grew up in a Boxing family.....

      I had two uncles who were Golden Gloves Champions back in the day... One uncle was a "true" Boxer... The other was a straight up "barroom" brawler... He would go to bars to fight and drink... in that order. :-)

      Personally, I am a firm believer in the head gear... I like to see both skill and power...

      For those who question what permanent damage is done to the human brain...... check out


      PBS's League of Denial: The NFL’s Concussion Crisis


      The segment that REALLY stuck out was the 18 boy from North Allegheny High School (Pittsburgh, PA) that died after his forth concussion...... He had advanced CTE at 18!
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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    Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

    What Do You Think of Combat Sports?
    I think they probably foster and reinforce an aggressive, adversarial, violent culture in society.

    It may be that if they didn't exist/weren't tolerated, then other, perhaps worse things would do that instead.

    Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

    I guess the main argument for making it legal is like the ones for prostitution and drug distribution -- that it is better to be subject to legal standards and sets of rules, with quick access to medical care if needed, than to be driven underground, chaotically and violently controlled by competing organized crime gangs.
    I'm not quite convinced that those are necessarily the main reasons for making prostitution and drug distribution legal, T-bird; but I do see that the argument applies to combat sports; yes. Boxing with readily available medical facilities, undesirable and regrettable though some of us think it is, is preferable to boxing without readily available medical facilities?

    .
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    I tried to watch it but for some reason I can't watch it more than a few minutes at a time.

    Now with HD, the three top American sports look better than ever on the tube.
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    It used to be called underground fighting.
    Unfortunately it is extremely sad people have to make a living that way, and whether they are good or not when they pass their usefulness like all others they will be tossed away. So many people walking around with such amazing damage they sustained for their 'sport" Hockey was no different either though.
    It is just too much and my idea of a fight is when the other person goes down that is the end of it.These fellows jump on top and that cannot be good for anyone no matter how tough you are.

    Best,
    -WD
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
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      Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

      Hockey was no different either though.
      Best, - WD
      You're kidding, right?

      F.
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      • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        You're kidding, right?

        F.
        Why would I be kidding

        Perhaps you have not played, I did for a long time. Goaltender and even goalies can get into it
        Sometimes they get downright brutal same kinda thing jump on top of em. Rules have been changed recently because of the brutality that took place.

        Brutality is brutality and the damage many have suffered playing Hockey is no different than a boxer becoming punchy or a full contact fighter.

        Why would you think I was kidding?

        Best,
        -WD
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
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          Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

          Why would I be kidding

          Perhaps you have not played, I did for a long time. Goaltender and even goalies can get into it
          Sometimes they get downright brutal same kinda thing jump on top of em. Rules have been changed recently because of the brutality that took place.

          Brutality is brutality and the damage many have suffered playing Hockey is no different than a boxer becoming punchy or a full contact fighter.

          Why would you think I was kidding?

          Best,
          -WD
          Never mind. I thought you were talking about professional hockey, where there is very little actual fighting and there have been only a handful of serious injuries over the decades.

          Of course anytime you get a bunch of overheated wannabes on the ice, there's going to be fighting. Especially when they're half shot in the ass from trying to stay warm. I've witnessed a lifetime of those shenanigans.

          I was a season ticket holder when the Broad St. Bullies won their first Stanley Cup and hockey is the ONLY sport I have followed for 45 years and I follow it religiously. I know a wee bit about hockey and fighting. When there is an actual fight it's generally over in 20 seconds and the worst injury is usually some badly bruised knuckles from punching that helmet 4 or 5 times. That said, I'll concede the point that some weekend warriors that don't wear helmets and get a kick out of punching each other senseless can get seriously hurt. How manly! lol

          I think that the word 'brutality' as it applies to pro hockey is a bit hyperbolic. Brutish? Possibly. Brutal? Only the ticket prices.

          Cheers. - Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
            Frank, why must you be so confrontational?

            Actually I am referring to professional hockey.
            I think the number of serious injuries is somewhere around 54 per 100,00 players.
            I know that is a statistic for young athletes I am not sure if it is including the pro level however a little research shows this:

            Catastrophic injuries, such as subdural haematoma and blinding, were reduced in the period 1963-1991 as a result of the compulsory wearing of helmets and full facemasks.1-6 Despite this, the incidence of head injuries is now increasing.7-20 Head and face currently represent the most common location of ice hockey injuries.7-10 World wide, there is also an increasing incidence of minor traumatic brain injuries (mTBI), even called cerebral concussion.7-20 Parallel to this, in the period 1982-1996, there was world wide a persistent number of 17 major spinal injuries a year.21-26

            From http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/36/6/410.full


            Not to say it is caused just from fighting, some of them are. mostly caused from enforcers slamming people into the glass. Cheap shots and the like, enforcers themselves have many injuries that are long term.

            They actually changed the NHL rules concerning fighting because it was out of hand so it seems you maybe missed that part.


            Here's a recent example of a long term sustainer who was one of the best in the business.
            Ex-Canucks

            I played at the major junior level and was invited to pro training camps. in fact I went to jail and lost a chance to play for Vancouver
            No wannabe here. Thanks though.
            I am not sure why you have to be right, but more power to you.
            Best,
            -WD
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            • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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              Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

              Frank, why must you be so confrontational?
              I played at the major junior level and was invited to pro training camps. in fact I went to jail and lost a chance to play for Vancouver
              No wannabe here. Thanks though.
              I am not sure why you have to be right, but more power to you.
              Best,
              -WD
              I lived in Rockford for many, many years where the Ice Hogs fed players to the Chicago Blackhawks. I can tell you at least half the fans in the building were there for the fights, and the Hogs are not a team that disappoints their fans.





              Since 1999 the Rockford Ice Hogs have sent 67 different to players skate in the NHL, and 18 of those players have been a part of a Stanley Cup winner.

              Cheers

              -don
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            • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
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              Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

              Frank, why must you be so confrontational?
              1. I'm 5'2".
              2. I have issues.
              3. I love few things in life. I love everything about the sport of hockey.
              4. I have spent decades defending the game to people whom know nothing about the game, except their belief that it's 'all fights, all the time.'
              5. What you perceive as being confrontational is nothing more than strong opinion. No one has ever accused me of coming across as Mary Poppins.
              6. I'm 5.2".
              Actually I am referring to professional hockey. I think the number of serious injuries is somewhere around 54 per 100,00 players. I know that is a statistic for young athletes I am not sure if it is including the pro level however a little research shows this:

              Not to say it is caused just from fighting, some of them are. mostly caused from enforcers slamming people into the glass. Cheap shots and the like, enforcers themselves have many injuries that are long term.
              Not to say it, because you can't say it with any authority. I'm sorry that you have such a jaded perspective on a game you play. You won't find a statistic anywhere that can back up your perception of how most of those injuries are incurred. None - no where - no how.

              (This is where Don breaks out a blistering array of charts and graphs).

              In a game played on skates, where the players get larger, skate faster, shoot harder and hit harder every year - where you have to watch out for iron pipes in the most intense activity area on the ice, where a skate blade has the ability to end your life in and instant, where losing an edge can have you hurtling into the end boards at 40+ MPH and where it has been demonstrated in recent years that the most successful teams are the ones in which a defensive player will throw his body in front of a 90+ mile an hour slap shot - you're going to try and tell me that most injuries are caused by people being rammed into the boards? You and I do NOT watch the same hockey games. And you ask me why I'm so confrontational? After I have to listen to this bullshit from someone that actually plays the game. That's just insane!
              They actually changed the NHL rules concerning fighting because it was out of hand so it seems you maybe missed that part.
              Thanks for the heads-up - but I didn't miss a thing. Those changes were necessary and I was happy to see them instituted. Additionally, I surrendered my allegiance to the Flyers as I came to understand that their style of play, which was soon emulated by every team in the league except for a few rare exceptions, was singularly destroying the game.
              Here's a recent example of a long term sustainer who was one of the best in the business.
              Oh Christ, I can pull out clips from any sport in the world as a one-off. Apparently you never saw the Badminton Brawl of '58. Get serious if you are going to have a serious discussion.
              I played at the major junior level and was invited to pro training camps. in fact I went to jail and lost a chance to play for Vancouver
              Big deal. I went to jail and lost my virginity! I can't tell if your smiley face indicates that you are happy that you wound up in jail or happy that you almost made it to the pros.
              No wannabe here. Thanks though.
              Well, you didn't quite make it, so . . . . . . . that's called an 'almoster.' It's one small rung up the ladder from a wannabe.
              I am not sure why you have to be right, but more power to you.
              I don't have to be right. It's just the general outcome of a very organic process that I have virtually no control over. It amazes everyone.
              Best, -WD
              Back atcha! - Frank
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              • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                1. I'm 5'2".
                2. I have issues.
                3. I love few things in life. I love everything about the sport of hockey.
                4. I have spent decades defending the game to people whom know nothing about the game, except their belief that it's 'all fights, all the time.'
                5. What you perceive as being confrontational is nothing more than strong opinion. No one has ever accused me of coming across as Mary Poppins.
                6. I'm 5.2".
                Not to say it, because you can't say it with any authority. I'm sorry that you have such a jaded perspective on a game you play. You won't find a statistic anywhere that can back up your perception of how most of those injuries are incurred. None - no where - no how.

                (This is where Don breaks out a blistering array of charts and graphs).

                In a game played on skates, where the players get larger, skate faster, shoot harder and hit harder every year - where you have to watch out for iron pipes in the most intense activity area on the ice, where a skate blade has the ability to end your life in and instant, where losing an edge can have you hurtling into the end boards at 40+ MPH and where it has been demonstrated in recent years that the most successful teams are the ones in which a defensive player will throw his body in front of a 90+ mile an hour slap shot - you're going to try and tell me that most injuries are caused by people being rammed into the boards? You and I do NOT watch the same hockey games. And you ask me why I'm so confrontational? After I have to listen to this bullshit from someone that actually plays the game. That's just insane!
                Thanks for the heads-up - but I didn't miss a thing. Those changes were necessary and I was happy to see them instituted. Additionally, I surrendered my allegiance to the Flyers as I came to understand that their style of play, which was soon emulated by every team in the league except for a few rare exceptions, was singularly destroying the game.
                Oh Christ, I can pull out clips from any sport in the world as a one-off. Apparently you never saw the Badminton Brawl of '58. Get serious if you are going to have a serious discussion.
                Big deal. I went to jail and lost my virginity! I can't tell if your smiley face indicates that you are happy that you wound up in jail or happy that you almost made it to the pros.
                Well, you didn't quite make it, so . . . . . . . that's called an 'almoster.' It's one small rung up the ladder from a wannabe.
                I don't have to be right. It's just the general outcome of a very organic process that I have virtually no control over. It amazes everyone.
                Back atcha! - Frank
                I think it was HBO that had a great documentary on the Broad Street Bullies. It was a lot of fun.

                I saw another documentary on hockey and the chicken-shit press gave the first goalie to wear a mask a very, very hard time. Go figure?

                Nothing personal but isn't hockey one of the few sports in which most teams must retain someone who can fight and protect the star on the team from the other team or be ready to fight at a moments notice in case the other team gets frisky or even start a fight himself? Or is that a thing of the past?

                BTW...

                I have a cousin-in-law from Canada and I was astounded when I asked him if fighting was part of the game and he replied yes.

                I've been to one live hockey game in my life and I had a great time and there was no fight???? And I must say the game looks great on TV with HD.

                Question???

                What would you consider "The Great One's" best attribute?


                Was it his speed?

                His moves with the puck?

                His array of shots or one of them in particular?

                His ability to work in traffic?

                His teammates?
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                • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                  I think it was HBO that had a great documentary on the Broad Street Bullies. It was a lot of fun.
                  Yes - those days were fun, but that was before I went from being a Flyers fan to a hockey fan. :-)
                  I saw another documentary on hockey and the chicken-shit press gave the first goalie to wear a mask a very, very hard time. Go figure?
                  Right. What a wuss. lol
                  Nothing personal but isn't hockey one of the few sports in which most teams must retain someone who can fight and protect the star on the team from the other team or be ready to fight at a moments notice in case the other team gets frisky or even start a fight himself? Or is that a thing of the past?
                  Well, although the premise for having a good fighter or two on a team still remains, you can count the type of player that is referred to as a 'goon' on one hand. Even most of your fighters are skilled players, albeit not scoring champions. lol
                  BTW...

                  I have a cousin-in-law from Canada and I was astounded when I asked him if fighting was part of the game and he replied yes.
                  He's correct. It still is a part of the game but the last stat I heard quoted is that fighting has been reduced by 80% in the past decade. I watch around 250 games a year. I have gone weeks without seeing a fight and the ones I do see are generally 15 seconds of getting ready to fight, 10 seconds of jersey pulling, 10 to 15 seconds of blind punching that rarely lands, followed by 10 seconds of rolling on the ice while the linesmen break it up. It is NOT like the old days.
                  I've been to one live hockey game in my life and I had a great time and there was no fight????
                  That's the norm, not the exception.
                  And I must say the game looks great on TV with HD.
                  The NHL and the NHLPA just signed an agreement to use GoPro cameras during the games. You may need Dramamine to keep your lunch down, but that should be fun to watch.

                  Question???

                  What would you consider "The Great One's" best attribute?


                  Was it his speed?
                  Yes!
                  His moves with the puck?
                  Yes!
                  His array of shots or one of them in particular?
                  Yes and no!
                  His ability to work in traffic?
                  Yes!
                  His teammates?
                  He made all of his teammate better, both by his play and the way that he carried himself on and off the ice.

                  Most of his records will never be broken.

                  Cheers,

                  Frank

                  P.S. One of his greatest skills was the hockey sense that allowed him to know where the puck was going to be, before it arrived.
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  • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
    Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

    I watch MMA fights and boxing and know people who compete in them. I can appreciate the nuances of competition, the skill-sets involved, the tactical skills necessary to do well in them. Someone has to be really smart to be able to do that since it demands a lot of strategy and quick adjustments. Still, I can't come to terms with the objective of inflicting such trauma to someone's brain, making it bang against the walls of the skull, that they fall unconscious. I guess the main argument for making it legal is like the ones for prostitution and drug distribution -- that it is better to be subject to legal standards and sets of rules, with quick access to medical care if needed, than to be driven underground, chaotically and violently controlled by competing organized crime gangs.

    I'm ashamed you're even discussing the subject of barbarian games masquerading as sport. Is your son, age 4, aware of this?

    You should be thinking of sedate pursuits and hobbies, rather more in line with a doting dad of a son, age 4 (soon to be 5).

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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      YI
      Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

      I'm ashamed you're even discussing the subject of barbarian games masquerading as sport. Is your son, age 4, aware of this?

      You should be thinking of sedate pursuits and hobbies, rather more in line with a doting dad of a son, age 4 (soon to be 5).
      LOL! I don't expose him to UFC, Bellator matches, cage-fights and suchlike. Do as I say, not as I secretly do...
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    LOL
    Brutal.
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    I have tried watching UFC but really can't get into it as I can see the same thing on any Friday night at my local pub.

    There's also the thought that eventually seeing two guys pound the snot out of each other won't be enough to satisfy the "bloodlust of the neanderthals" (thanks Frank) that watch it.

    Where do we go from there? Actual gladiators out to kill each other?

    The beginning of a very slippery slope.
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    • Profile picture of the author Formal Shorts
      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

      I have tried watching UFC but really can't get into it as I can see the same thing on any Friday night at my local pub.

      There's also the thought that eventually seeing two guys pound the snot out of each other won't be enough to satisfy the "bloodlust of the neanderthals" (thanks Frank) that watch it.

      Where do we go from there? Actual gladiators out to kill each other?

      The beginning of a very slippery slope.
      I will concede many points in relation to mma. There are several valid arguments against the sport. However,

      1) you absolutely can not see the same thing on any Friday night at your local pub. That comment is misleading and inaccurate.

      2) the sport has become progressively safer in recent years, and has been mainstream for over 20. How is the slope slippery? If anything, it's becoming inclined.

      You have a wealth of legitimate arguments to use against mma. Use them.
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      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by Formal Shorts View Post

        I will concede many points in relation to mma. There are several valid arguments against the sport.
        I'll concede that I used a fair amount of hyperbole in my comment.

        I'll also concede that many of its fans do see it as another form of sport.

        What happens when those who watch it to satisfy their bloodlust (and you can't deny that many fans do watch it for that reason) become more and more bored, especially as the sport becomes safer and safer? Where will they turn to get their jollies? Actual gladiator contests?
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        So that blind people can hate them as well.
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        • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
          Banned
          Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

          I'll concede that I used a fair amount of hyperbole in my comment.

          I'll also concede that many of its fans do see it as another form of sport.

          What happens when those who watch it to satisfy their bloodlust (and you can't deny that many fans do watch it for that reason) become more and more bored, especially as the sport becomes safer and safer? Where will they turn to get their jollies? Actual gladiator contests?
          Martial arts, fighting, and wrestling have been practiced for thousands of years so I don't think fans are going to get bored anytime soon. Many/Most of the Martial Arts are a form of sport, have been sports, and will continue to be sports.


          Minoan youths boxing, reconstruction of a Knossos fresco (1500 BC).
          In ancient China, the Yellow Emperor Huangdi (2698 BC) is described as a famous general who, before becoming China’s leader, wrote lengthy treatises on medicine, astrology and the martial arts
          History of martial arts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

          Cave paintings have been found in the Lascaux caves in France that have been suggested to depict sprinting and wrestling in the Upper Paleolithic around 17,300 years ago.
          History of sport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

          IMO, most MMA fans watch to see their favorite fighters perform their craft and don't care about seeing blood. A great fight is watching two tacticians battle each other until one submits or wins a decision, and that does not necessarily mean one guy always gets pounded to a pulp. Sure knockouts are a part of the sport, and sometimes fighters get cut, but it's been that way with combat sports like boxing for a very long time. Many folks argue that boxers and even football players suffer greater long term brain damage than MMA fighters do.

          Bloodlust? I don't know, maybe they will watch hockey, football, auto racing or motocross? Maybe BMX? Maybe the X Games? Maybe any of a number of gangster movies? Maybe old westerns? War movies? How about video games? Maybe they will review drunk driving car crash cases at a local college? Any number of prime time dramas? Maybe HBO? Cinemax? Showtime? Starz? The Movie Channel? The SciFi Channel? Chiller?

          Personally, I don't know any MMA fans that have a bloodlust so I guess you will need to ask someone that has a bloodlust. In-fact many fans of the sport don't want to see blood because it may cause a great fight to be stopped early.

          I have seen hockey fans chant for a fight, but I personally don't know of any fans that cheer for blood or root for serious injuries during a high level MMA fight. At the highest levels it's a sport practiced by mostly educated guys, who usually have a ton of respect for each other, and hug it up and shake hands after the fight. A lot of these guys are smart guys that want to test themselves both mentally and physically and that's why they participate.

          I could name at least a hundred video games that are far bloodier than MMA is, so I suppose a real bloodluster may turn to a game like Mortal Kombat X if sports were to go away. Maybe Call of Duty? Battlefield? Gears of War? Resident Evil? Dead Space? Fall Out? Heck, I suppose you could finds dozens if not hundreds of zombie killing games that feature a ton of gore.

          I got it! Maybe those bloodlusters that are not already watching it will tune in to The Walking Dead! What a great show!

          Cheers

          -don
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      My most favorite MMA fights, ever!




      They were for a good cause!!


      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        My most favorite MMA fights, ever!

        P.O.D. - (Here comes the) Boom (Kevin James) - YouTube

        They were for a good cause!!

        Terra
        I enjoyed the movie which not only featured the man on the mic, Joe Rogan, it had one of the best fighters ever in it, Bas Rutten. Bas has a 5th Degree Black Belt in Kyokushin Karate, a 2nd Degree Black Belt in Taekwondo,
        and a Judo Black Belt.

        Cheers

        -don
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        • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
          Wow Don you have a great mind for details.

          Very cool stuff.
          Thanks for sharing your insights.
          Seriously.
          I see it in a lot of threads. I just think it is cool. No funny weird stuff LOl

          Best,
          -WD
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

          I enjoyed the movie which not only featured the man on the mic, Joe Rogan, it had one of the best fighters ever in it, Bas Rutten. Bas has a 5th Degree Black Belt in Kyokushin Karate, a 2nd Degree Black Belt in Taekwondo,
          and a Judo Black Belt.

          Cheers

          -don

          I'm well aware of all of the above as hubby is a huge MMA fan.

          My ex son-in-law did a stint in the amateur circuit for awhile. I didn't like it. I told him the last thing my grand kids needed was a retard for a daddy. Of course that was the first time he lost and got the snot beat out of him.

          He has since given it up, but I'm confident the head injuries he sustained have had a lasting effect.

          He's the one who went seriously psycho and caused my family to go into hiding because of death threats a year or so ago.


          Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        My most favorite MMA fights, ever!


        P.O.D. - (Here comes the) Boom (Kevin James) - YouTube


        They were for a good cause!!


        Terra

        How dare you interrupt a serious thread with some comedy!?!?! I think you should turn yourself in to the candle thread before I do. We'll go easier on you if you do.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          How dare you interrupt a serious thread with some comedy!?!?! I think you should turn yourself in to the candle thread before I do. We'll go easier on you if you do.

          Don't worry, Kurt. I've already dispatched the Blackhawks to her residence.
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          Raising a child is akin to knowing you're getting fired in 18 years and having to train your replacement without actively sabotaging them.

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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            Don't worry, Kurt. I've already dispatched the Blackhawks to her residence.
            Blackhawks? You need to be more specific...hockey, helicopter or those living in a small Colorado gambling town? None of the above? All of the above?
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Blackhawks? You need to be more specific...hockey, helicopter or those living in a small Colorado gambling town? None of the above? All of the above?
              If I told you, I'd have to reroute them to your house.
              Signature

              Raising a child is akin to knowing you're getting fired in 18 years and having to train your replacement without actively sabotaging them.

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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Comparing high level mixed martial artists fighting in the UFC to bar room brawlers at a local pub is a bit like comparing a 3 year old kid playing nerf golf in his parents livingroom for the first time to Jack Nicklaus or Greg Norman playing in the Masters.

    I used to play 54 holes of golf a day at my local links, and yes, a civilized person can enjoy both sports. That said, I don't plan on jumping in the cage with an All-American wrestler that has a black belt in one or more of the martial arts anytime soon.

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    So you said all of that when I said Hockey also is responsible for people having lasting damage,
    I then show you statistically these things occur and often a whole lot more than 4
    Like I said Frank, more power to you. but ya know what, you are still wrong
    Telling me you lost your virginity in Jail is rather terrible. Shame on you.

    Cya
    -WD

    Edit: Please don't use Jesus name in vain. It is quite uncalled for, you have a vocabulary, use it.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

      So you said all of that when I said Hockey also is responsible for people having lasting damage,
      I then show you statistically these things occur and often a whole lot more than 4
      Like I said Frank, more power to you. but ya know what, you are still wrong
      Telling me you lost your virginity in Jail is rather terrible. Shame on you.

      Cya
      -WD
      We're discussing fighting. Stay on point or surrender if you can't keep up.

      I actually wasn't a virgin when I went to jail, but acting like one had its benefits. I'm sorry you don't have a sense of humor.

      I may be an opinionated little SOB, but at least I can laugh.

      Bedtime. - Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    Sorry Frank I can't see your message I have blocked you. I don't deal with rude people. so carry on
    -WD
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Like Frank, I have also been a lifelong hockey fan. I started rooting for the Montreal Canadians back in about 1970, and my favorite player of all time is the great Guy Lefleuer, one of the "no helmet" guys.

    That said, concussions are an issue in the NHL, however far fewer are diagnosed in the NHL than are in the NFL.

    Before the 2010 season began, the National Hockey League instituted Rule 48 banning blindside hits to another player’s head. Before the 2011 season, it applied the rule to any hit to the head. The rule’s goal was simple: it was supposed to reduce the number of concussions NHL players suffered each season.

    It hasn’t, according to a new study from the University of Toronto’s Dr. Michael Cusimano. In fact, the number of concussions in the NHL has increased since the rule went into effect, rising from 44 to 65 in the first year it was applied and from 65 to 85 the next year. But the number didn’t rise because NHL players weren’t following the new rule, because the majority of concussions came on hits that didn’t draw a penalty.

    “In only 28% of the concussive events was there a penalty issued,” Cusimano told the Los Angeles Times. The most dangerous hits in the NHL are actually body checks, which caused 64.2 percent of the concussions, according to the study. Body checks are legal and, aside from goals, the most likely type of play to land a hockey player on the highlight reels. Among penalties, fighting most often causes concussions.
    NHL Rule Banning Hits To The Head Hasn't Reduced Number Of Concussions | ThinkProgress

    And they are still an issue even though we recently saw a decline...

    According to data from STATS provided to The Associated Press, there were 53 concussions during the regular season, a sharp decline from the 78 reported during the league's last full season two years ago.

    "Obviously, it's difficult for us to get into a player's head, no pun intended, with this concussion discussion," he said. "But if a player is going to not follow the protocol, not say exactly what he's feeling, that's pretty difficult to address."

    Dr. Jeff Kutcher, an Ann Arbor, Michigan-based neurologist who works with NHL players believed to have concussions, wasn't sure the lower numbers indicated a dramatic change.

    "I'm not surprised that the numbers are down, but I wouldn't read too much into those numbers," Kutcher said.

    The NHL's concussion protocol, like other leagues, requires players to get a team doctor's OK before they can return to play. They are taken to a quiet place for evaluation, questions and tests of their memory, balance and general awareness.

    Players, though, seem to be able to skate around the protocol.
    NHL says concussions have decreased, but protocol remains imperfect - ESPN

    While tons of injuries do occur in hockey at all levels, it's quite apparent that youth hockey does see to a good number of brain injuries...

    A study published in the journal PLOS One on Thursday by researchers at Toronto’s St. Michael’s Hospital found that hockey accounted for 44 per cent of the sports-related brain injuries that sent people five to 19 years old to 15 Canadian emergency departments from 1990 to 2009. About 10 per cent of the hockey-related brain injuries resulted from hits from behind, which are banned.

    While sports-related brain injuries are a concern, they make up only about 20 per cent of the brain injuries that affect young people, according to the Ontario Brain Injury Association. Falls, such as down the stairs or off a bike, are a much more common cause of concussions, skull fractures and other brain injuries, said Katie Muirhead, an advocacy specialist at the association.

    From 1990 to 2009, the database recorded 12,799 brain injuries related to organized and informal sports. Of those, 44 per cent, or 5,675, occurred while playing hockey. The most common cause of hockey-related brain injury was being hit by another player. Soccer accounted for 19 per cent of sports-related brain injuries, the study found.
    Most sports-related brain injuries occur in hockey, study finds - The Globe and Mail

    Of course many sports are quite dangerous by nature, and football and hockey are not much different than high level MMA in that regard. While it's a bit difficult to directly compare sports because of participation levels, every year kids collapse and die during football practice here in the U.S.

    Anyway, as more and more is learned about head injuries, we are starting to see that guys in the NFL trenches that take blow after blow after blow, may be the guys that are taking the most long term brain damage.

    Players reported having about six times more suspected concussions than diagnosed concussions during the 2012 season, and about 21 times more “dings” or “bell ringers.” While offensive linemen didn’t have significantly more diagnosed concussions than the average for all players, they reported about 62% more suspected concussions and 52% more “dings” or “bell ringers” than their peers at other positions. (When providing numbers for their entire football careers, running backs reported significantly more “dings” or “bell ringers” than the average).

    CONCUSSION THINK TANK
    Sports leagues from around the world met at NFL headquarters hoping to standardize head trauma research and brainstorm innovative treatments.

    Those words—“ding” and “bell ringer”—are often used as code words for hits that may be potentially concussive. Players in this survey were more willing to admit absorbing these kinds of hits, though the words may have different meanings to different players. That highlights a central issue: No two head injuries are the same, yet much of proper treatment and recovery management relies on players self-reporting.

    Not all of the suspected concussions reported in this survey would be diagnosed as concussions, nor would all the “dings” or “bell ringers,” but the results show top-level athletes are playing through impacts that may result in brain injuries. “Even in the era of concussion awareness, if we treat the diagnosed concussions properly, will that make a difference in the long-term?” says Chris Nowinski, co-founder of the Sports Legacy Institute and co-director of the BU CTE Center. “It also shows, in a sense, no matter how many changes the NFL game makes we’ve still got these potentially unfixable problems at the levels below.”

    In recent years, the NFL has employed measures like the “eye in the sky” athletic trainers, who serve as injury spotters from a perch above the field, to catch more potential head injuries. The controversy at the University of Michigan, though, in which Wolverines quarterback Shane Morris was allowed to re-enter a game for one play despite showing signs of a concussion, emphasizes that the process can be better at all levels of the game.

    THE NFL'S EYE IN THE SKY
    Jenny Vrentas sat in with the NFL's injury spotters for a game, as the league works to identify concussions.

    For offensive linemen in particular, the study provides a different perspective on the subconcussive hits—lower impact, but with higher frequency—that players on the front lines absorb. Players were asked to report how often they experience concussion-related symptoms after a hit. Compared to most other position groups, offensive linemen reported more frequently experiencing symptoms that were not likely to be externally observable, such as dizziness, headaches and concentration difficulties. The responses also showed that offensive linemen, on average, returned to play while experiencing symptoms after a hit more frequently than their peers during the 2012 season.
    Harvard study says concussive hits in the trenches are being ignored | The MMQB with Peter King

    As far as NFL football goes I have been rooting for the Steel Curtain since 1969, and according to recent reports, at least three Steeler lineman may have sustained brain damage due to a career of repeated blows to the head at practice and during the games. Justin Strzelczyk, Terry Long and Mike Webster are the three players.

    Here is what the NFL concussion count looks like...

    The NFL reports that there were 228 diagnosed concussions during the 2013 preseason and regular season combined, down 13 percent from a total of 261 in 2012. Concussions caused by helmet-to-helmet hits dropped from 117 to 90, according to the league.
    The 2013-14 season was supposed to be the year the NFL put its concussion crisis behind it. Under siege over its past handling of the issue, the league announced in August that it would pay $765 million to settle claims brought by thousands of former players that it concealed a link between football and traumatic brain injury.

    Five months and at least 152 concussions later, the story has yet to go away. In 2013, legends such as Brett Favre, Tony Dorsett, Terry Bradshaw and Harry Carson all came out to discuss how concussions have affected their lives. As a result, a season meant to mark the end of the crisis may now be remembered as the year the taboo around football head injuries was all but erased
    .
    And finally the admission and the first payoff.

    The National Football League, which for years disputed evidence that its players had a high rate of severe brain damage, has stated in federal court documents that it expects nearly a third of retired players to develop long-term cognitive problems and that the conditions are likely to emerge at “notably younger ages” than in the general population.
    According to the assumptions compiled by the lawyers for the plaintiffs, about 28 percent of former players, totaling 5,900, will develop compensable injuries. Only about 60 percent, or 3,600, of those players are expected to file claims, which are estimated to total $950 million. Just over half of that money will be paid in the first 20 years, with the rest paid in the remaining 45 years of the settlement fund’s life.

    The N.F.L.’s actuaries assumed that 28 percent of all players would be found to have one of the compensable diseases and that the league would pay out $900 million to them. Their calculations showed that players younger than 50 had an 0.8 percent chance of developing Alzheimer’s or dementia, compared with less than 0.1 percent for the general population. For players ages 50 to 54, the rate was 1.4 percent, compared with less than 0.1 percent for the general population. The gap between the players and the general population grows wider with increasing age.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/13/sp...-released.html

    How many football related deaths occur you may ask? An average of 12 per year here in the U.S. is your answer.

    Average 12 high school and college football players die each year, study says
    Researchers from the National Center for Catastrophic Sports Injury Research studied 243 football deaths recorded between July 1990 and June 2010. Their study found heart conditions, heat and other non-traumatic causes of death are twice as common as injury-related ones.
    One hundred of the fatalities resulted from an underlying heart condition, 62 were due to a brain injury - typically a subdural hematoma - and 38 were from heat-related causes, according to findings published in The American Journal of Sports Medicine.
    http://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.1309671

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      Like Frank, I have also been a lifelong hockey fan. I started rooting for the Montreal Canadians back in about 1970, and my favorite player of all time is the great Guy Lefleuer, one of the "no helmet" guys.

      That said, concussions are an issue in the NHL, however far fewer are diagnosed in the NHL than are in the NFL.

      Cheers

      -don
      Don,

      I'm extremely disappointed in you.

      1. We were discussing injuries due to fighting. At least I was.

      2. Not a single chart or graph. You're slipping.

      3. Please keep in mind that hockey players have an 82 game season and an average career twice as long as an NFL player.

      Very pertinent points if you're going to compare injury statistics. Additionally, hockey players do go out on the ice looking to end a rival player's career. Nothing is more glorified in the NFL that taking another player out of the game.

      Cheers. - Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        Don,

        I'm extremely disappointed in you.

        1. We were discussing injuries due to fighting. At least I was.

        2. Not a single chart or graph. You're slipping.
        I am aware of season and career lengths, and I also know NFL teams and players in the past have went for knockouts and cart-offs. Relatively recently, the Saints were caught paying players $1,500 for knockouts and $1,000 for cart-offs, and they doubled or tripled the payouts during the playoffs.

        Back in the day the Raiders were known for extremely dirty plays like the hits George Atkinson put on one my all-time favorite receivers Lynn Swann. Atkinson hit Swann twice in the back of the head with forearm smashes when Swann was not looking and did not have the ball thrown his way. Once in a 1976 regular season game that rendered him unconscious, and once in the AFC Championship game during the previous season. Both hits resulted in concussions.

        After the second incident the legendary coach Chuck Noll referred to Atkinson as part of football's "criminal element".

        And you may have missed that first quote I posted which talked about how many of the concussions in hockey were obtained during fights....

        “In only 28% of the concussive events was there a penalty issued,” Cusimano told the Los Angeles Times. The most dangerous hits in the NHL are actually body checks, which caused 64.2 percent of the concussions, according to the study. Body checks are legal and, aside from goals, the most likely type of play to land a hockey player on the highlight reels. Among penalties, fighting most often causes concussions.
        Body checks were the most dangerous hits when speaking of concussions and legal plays, fighting caused the most concussions among penalties.

        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        He's correct. It still is a part of the game but the last stat I heard quoted is that fighting has been reduced by 80% in the past decade.
        Yeah, the NHL fighting numbers have definitely been dropping...



        http://www.hockeyfights.com/stats/

        Cheers

        -don
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post


          Yeah, the NHL fighting numbers have definitely been dropping...

          Cheers

          -don
          Finally, a chart. I was about to ask the poster, who are you and what have you done with Don? :-)

          Cheers. - Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author WalkingCarpet
    Banned
    Best way to release all that pent-up aggression and all that testosterone.
    Something Joe would have no idea of.
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    • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
      Thanks Don,

      That was very kind to look those up, yeah football is the worse for sure. something like 74 or something per 100,000 players.

      It is just to be expected when people are totally engulfed in their games,
      I appreciate the part about the checks being responsible. for a lot.

      I am sorry to everyone I got a little miffed with Frank. we went off topic which is not so great. So I apologize


      Best,
      -WD
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      "As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"

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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    The late love of my life was a golden glove champ. He's dead. Brain aneurism. No. I do not like the fighting arts. At all. Not for anything but self defense anyway.

    Paint ball - now, that's a fun sport.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Banned
    Uh? Tyson boring?

    I like long drawn out tactical fights as much as anyone else, but the basis of Mike Tyson's appeal is that he destroyed his opponents fast.


    Also this:

    Originally Posted by Emmanuel Stewart

    . But what we must all remember, which to me is one of the reasons I admire him so much, is he was always a small guy! Nobody looks at what he accomplished fighting those big guys. It was amazing. The big guys who really had skills and were not intimidated by him were when he had his roughest fights, because Mike was a small guy. I never thought he would be what he became. I thought he was just a decent little heavyweight, but physically was just too small to ever hang with the big time guys—but he did it! The fights where he had his tougher fights were with guys like Tony Tucker, Mitch Green, Buster Douglas—those were big guys! Those were about 6’4” guys, 6’5”, and he still was only like 5’10.5” or 5’11” guy. So when you really look at it, for the most part a lot of times he was giving away six inches in height. This was tough, especially when he fought guys with some pretty good boxing skills. But nevertheless, what made Mike Tyson so special was the way that he knocked people out so savagely. The manner was like with the clock ticking, Mike got ten minutes and if he didn’t knock out or kill this guy, someone was going to murder his loved ones and family, or something like that.
    But seriously though, scientists would go to unknown tribes in Africa, and the tribes would know about Mike Tyson which makes Mike Tyson a true and most recognizable American hero.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I find Tyson to be maybe the most interesting pop culture person of my life time. One minute he's exposing his bizarre "culinary tastes", wanting to eat Lennox Lewis' children and chomping on Hollyfield's ear. The next minute he's like a big innocent 8 year old child.

    I really think Tyson needed Cus D'Amato to have lived longer. Cus seemed to be the one person that Tyson could trust and respect and was the father figure Tyson needed.
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    Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      I used to hate having a fight party when Tyson was reigning. Either it was a too quick knockout or something "weird" would happen during the fight.

      We called it the Don King effect.
      At least most of the weird stuff occurred after 1995. Prior to that though, the parties were often quite short. To this day I vividly remember the party we had the night Buster beat Mike. While I was a huge Mike fan, I had a couple of chips on big ol' Buster on that night. I about hit my head on the ceiling when the end came.

      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

      Uh? Tyson boring?

      I like long drawn out tactical fights as much as anyone else, but the basis of Mike Tyson's appeal is that he destroyed his opponents fast.
      Damn right, and thats exactly why he is one of the greatest fighters of all time, and one of my favorites. Tyson was one of the best finishers ever and I never liked missing any of his fights.

      But seriously though, scientists would go to unknown tribes in Africa, and the tribes would know about Mike Tyson which makes Mike Tyson a true and most recognizable American hero.
      Yeah, the baddest man on the planet was certainly well known around the world. It's too bad after his relationship with Cus ended he couldn't keep it together. I am always left thinking "what could have been" with Mike even though he became legendary even with his missteps.

      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I find Tyson to be maybe the most interesting pop culture person of my life time. One minute he's exposing his bizarre "culinary tastes", wanting to eat Lennox Lewis' children and chomping on Hollyfield's ear. The next minute he's like a big innocent 8 year old child.
      Mike was diagnosed with Dysthymic Disorder and Cognitive Impairment, and since he was not always medicated I think we have witnessed some of his seriously large mood swings.

      Mike Tyson's Assessment

      Mike Tyson Psychiatric Reports | The Smoking Gun

      I really think Tyson needed Cus D'Amato to have lived longer. Cus seemed to be the one person that Tyson could trust and respect and was the father figure Tyson needed.
      Yeah, most everyone that has followed Mike's career believes this. That's one of the reasons I linked the Feeding The Fire episode of Being Mike Tyson. That said, even with Cus in his life he may have still ran into a few of the mental issues that he did in later life. I would like to think that he may not have became quite as unpredictable as he did though. Obviously his early career was much smoother than the latter part of his career --> the failed marriage, the rape conviction, the super-crazy talk, the ear bites etc.

      Being: Mike Tyson Full Episode (Feeding the Fire) - IMDb

      During that Feeding the Fire episode Mike takes a journey back in time and he returns to Cus D'Amato's boxing gym in the Catskills. He talks quite a bit about his relationship with Cus, and during that episode you will see some cool home video footage of a very young Mike Tyson eating dinner at the table with Cus and a few other fighters at the D'Amato home.

      Cheers

      -don
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