NBC's Brian Williams Caught "Exaggerating" War Story...

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Brian Williams Under Fire Over His Shifting Story Of Iraq Helicopter Attack
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I saw his apology a couple nights ago. I'm surprised that he did this but he's not the first. Wasn't it Hillary that exaggerated 2-3 years ago saying she was "under fire"? I don't remember but it seems to be foggy memory for some people who retell a story too often. It's a bit like witness at an accident scene who later claim they jumped in to help - trying to make themselves a bigger part of the story.

    I remember long after Vietnam. I was sitting at a bar with a man who was not only a vet but a decorated hero. I well knew the demons he carried about the war and how hard he struggled to leave them behind. He heard a man bragging about "being in the war" a few barstools down and commented "now that it's fashionable - every bleeding idiot claims to be a Vietnam vet".
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I saw his apology a couple nights ago. I'm surprised that he did this but he's not the first. Wasn't it Hillary that exaggerated 2-3 years ago saying she was "under fire"? I don't remember but it seems to be foggy memory for some people who retell a story too often. It's a bit like witness at an accident scene who later claim they jumped in to help - trying to make themselves a bigger part of the story.

      I remember long after Vietnam. I was sitting at a bar with a man who was not only a vet but a decorated hero. I well knew the demons he carried about the war and how hard he struggled to leave them behind. He heard a man bragging about "being in the war" a few barstools down and commented "now that it's fashionable - every bleeding idiot claims to be a Vietnam vet".
      If I recall, Hillary fabricated the whole thing.

      Brian williams apparently is guilty of what is now a CRIME! He "STOLE GLORY" from military personnel. To say it was an exageration is an understatement. He apparently took a story told by ANOTHER, that happened about an hour earlier and claimed it as his own! He in every way tried to claim the ordeal that happened to ANOTHER. If only he actually claimed to have been in the military, fought, or claimed a medal, he could seriously be up on charges.

      You would THINK that it is ENOUGH to merely be there, and claim the FEAR! If someone just did THAT, it would be legitimate and enough to make you thankful that YOU aren't there. But someone has to do all of THIS?

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I saw his apology a couple nights ago. I'm surprised that he did this but he's not the first. Wasn't it Hillary that exaggerated 2-3 years ago saying she was "under fire"? I don't remember but it seems to be foggy memory for some people who retell a story too often. It's a bit like witness at an accident scene who later claim they jumped in to help - trying to make themselves a bigger part of the story.

      I remember long after Vietnam. I was sitting at a bar with a man who was not only a vet but a decorated hero. I well knew the demons he carried about the war and how hard he struggled to leave them behind. He heard a man bragging about "being in the war" a few barstools down and commented "now that it's fashionable - every bleeding idiot claims to be a Vietnam vet".
      BTW he did this because he *****HAD***** to! He was CALLED on it! There are only a few ways to respond:

      1. Come up with legitimate PROOF! His claim gave ways it could EASILY be proven or dis proven! They could have called his wife, asked for details, called where she stayed, and checked. If he lied, he would be in WORSE hot water with no way out!
      2. Live in DISGRACE and always in fear, perhaps losing his entire career. It could happen in less than an hour!
      3. APOLOGIZE, and hope it is accepted or mitigates things.

      He picked option #3, which really was the least painful.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I saw his apology a couple nights ago. I'm surprised that he did this but he's not the first. Wasn't it Hillary that exaggerated 2-3 years ago saying she was "under fire"? I don't remember but it seems to be foggy memory for some people who retell a story too often. It's a bit like witness at an accident scene who later claim they jumped in to help - trying to make themselves a bigger part of the story.
      .

      I can remember several times that I was telling a story, and my wife would say "That didn't happen".

      Sometimes it was me, mixing two stories together.

      And once or twice, it was something I read, but remembered it as though I saw it first hand.

      These things happen. The memory degrades over time. memories fade, and we fill in the gaps as best we can.

      Yesterday, I told my wife, "Remember that customer that brought in those comic books for me to read?' And she said, "It never happened. You bought those online, and loaned them to the guy. He never returned them".

      Memories are imperfect.

      Brian Williams made a mistake. We all do.

      I think it's much ado about nothing.
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I can remember several times that I was telling a story, and my wife would say "That didn't happen".

        Sometimes it was me, mixing two stories together.

        And once or twice, it was something I read, but remembered it as though I saw it first hand.

        These things happen. The memory degrades over time. memories fade, and we fill in the gaps as best we can.

        <snip>

        Memories are imperfect.

        Brian Williams made a mistake. We all do.

        I think it's much ado about nothing.
        So how many times have you added to your stories that you were hit by an RPG while flying 100 feet above the deck in a war zone? If you were shot down by an RPG in a war zone then you remember it (or you are seriously injured, a prisoner of war, a hostage, or you are dead)....if you didn't get shot down by an RPG then you don't remember it.

        This is all to do about embellishing a story.

        Williams went on TV and told a fat one. He had recounted the incident many, many times over the years and the story started morphing a bit in 2007 or 2008, and then in 2013 it had turned into what many would call --> BS or a LIE. In 2015 he again told the story complete with the major falsehood, and he was finally called out and forced to admit it. Not only was he not flying in formation with the other choppers, his chopper was actually an hour behind the chopper that was hit by an RPG.

        I spent my time in the military 30 years ago, and even though I spent a lot of time in unfriendly waters, I have never once told someone that my ship got sunk or took a torpedo hit. You know why? It never happened.

        If the guy is having this much trouble with his memory then maybe he should stop "reporting" the news.

        Case closed.

        Cheers

        -don
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I can remember several times that I was telling a story, and my wife would say "That didn't happen".

        Sometimes it was me, mixing two stories together.

        And once or twice, it was something I read, but remembered it as though I saw it first hand.

        These things happen. The memory degrades over time. memories fade, and we fill in the gaps as best we can.

        Yesterday, I told my wife, "Remember that customer that brought in those comic books for me to read?' And she said, "It never happened. You bought those online, and loaned them to the guy. He never returned them".

        Memories are imperfect.

        Brian Williams made a mistake. We all do.

        I think it's much ado about nothing.
        It is TERRIBLY detailed for some "fill in the blanks" type deal. AND, as I understand it, he has been doing this since the beginning. MANY times, when a person in a military zone has such a situation, they report it as a story, etc... It is actually a GOOD thing! It is a moral booster, and lets others know what is out there and help that is available. Watch World war movies, or look at myths of the time, etc... or even listen to a vietnam vet, and you see how it happens!

        OBVIOUSLY, what happened was that a group had this happen to them. Brian went with the group he was with to wherever, heard the story, and made it his own. He built a whole life around it, INCLUDING what happened with his wife stateside!

        I'm sure even his WIFE said "Honey......That just DIDN'T happen!"! Yet he went on telling the story!

        EXTRA EXTRA! This just in, 2 hours ago, according to yahoo! ANOTHER NAIL HAMMERED! His katrina story is being scrutinized, as well as OTHERS! His career may be that much closer to FINISHED!

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        These things happen. The memory degrades over time. memories fade, and we fill in the gaps as best we can.

        Brian Williams made a mistake. We all do.

        I think it's much ado about nothing.


        You've got to be kidding! He admitted it wasn't true. This is no foggy memory, it was a bald-faced lie. His "mistake" was in thinking that he was important enough to get away with it.


        There's a real problem when you can't trust your news sources. There's an even bigger problem when we start making up excuses for their dishonesty and try to sweep it away as unimportant.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          You've got to be kidding! He admitted it wasn't true. This is no foggy memory, it was a bald-faced lie. His "mistake" was in thinking that he was important enough to get away with it.


          There's a real problem when you can't trust your news sources. There's an even bigger problem when we start making up excuses for their dishonesty and try to sweep it away as unimportant.
          Since I have respect for you, I'll post the video of the apology.


          How many thousands of stories has he reported? I'm pretty happy with one mistake.

          It was one part, of one story, that happened 12 years ago. Out of many many thousands of stories.

          Every reporter has done this. No matter how honest they are. How many unintentional lies do we all tell, every day?

          Why would an obviously intelligent man, like Williams, purposely fabricate part of a story, that can be easily checked..and where there are witnesses? And he's in a business where one mistake like this, can cost a career.

          It was a mistake. He corrected it.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


            It was a mistake. He corrected it.

            With all due respect, you choose to believe him, perhaps because he fits your political views. On the other hand, I'm skeptical of all the mainstream media, and now, especially of Williams. I don't find his apology credible. It's too big of a discrepancy to be attributed to a foggy memory, in my opinion.


            Furthermore, reporters and journalists are paid to get the story straight. He's supposed to be a professional. Even IF this could be attributed to a false memory, he still can't be trusted because his professionalism is horribly lacking.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

              With all due respect, you choose to believe him, perhaps because he fits your political views. On the other hand, I'm skeptical of all the mainstream media, and now, especially of Williams. I don't find his apology credible. It's too big of a discrepancy to be attributed to a foggy memory, in my opinion.


              Furthermore, reporters and journalists are paid to get the story straight. He's supposed to be a professional. Even IF this could be attributed to a false memory, he still can't be trusted because his professionalism is horribly lacking.
              No. I'm unaware of his political views. He's a newsman.

              I'm just not quick to get the torches and pitchforks.

              Added later; I really am also skeptical of what I read. That very much includes what I read on this Forum.
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              • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                No. I'm unaware of his political views. He's a newsman.

                I'm just not quick to get the torches and pitchforks.
                His political leanings are well-known, but I'll take your word for it you're unaware of them.

                It's laudable that you're not quick to get torches and pitchforks, but you were quick to make excuses for him. I found that curious, given the serious nature of his "story."

                I'll repeat what I said earlier in different words . . . a professional journalist ought not to get such important details wrong. He's either incompetent, or a liar. In either case, it's not someone I'd trust to bring me my news.


                PS - I don't think I grabbed a torch or pitchfork either. I simply said in my opinion he lying and can't be trusted. I didn't call for him to be fired or any other actions to be taken against him.
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                  It's laudable that you're not quick to get torches and pitchforks, but you were quick to make excuses for him. I found that curious, given the serious nature of his "story."
                  Dennis; You saw it as "Making excuses" because of the contrast between my post and the rest. My "support" for him appeared in an exaggerated form.

                  But I'm not making excuses for him. I'm responding in the same way, as I would for everyone that has a reputation for delivering unbiased news, and slips once. I would respond the same way, if it was a FOX newsman that did the exact same thing. That doesn't sound true. But it is.

                  I barely even knew what the story was about. I saw it once on NBC News.
                  When I saw it again, his story sounded even less like a lie he told on purpose.


                  To me....It has nothing to do with Brian Williams. It has everything to do with (to me) understanding that mistakes occur....and not jumping to an extreme position, as a first reaction.

                  And Dennis; Nothing I do is laudable. But think......you're a great guy, and I trust what you say. How many times have you said something that wasn't true....this week? Today?

                  Everything we say is not 100% true. We make mistakes. We get tired. Our memory plays tricks on us.

                  Anyway, that's about it for me. Next week, we'll be angry about someone else.

                  And Dennis: You can't spell Claudable..without Laudable.

                  Good to see you back.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    Good to see you back.
                    I plead temporary insanity. This, too, shall pass.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I can remember several times that I was telling a story, and my wife would say "That didn't happen".

        Sometimes it was me, mixing two stories together.

        And once or twice, it was something I read, but remembered it as though I saw it first hand.

        These things happen. The memory degrades over time. memories fade, and we fill in the gaps as best we can.

        Yesterday, I told my wife, "Remember that customer that brought in those comic books for me to read?' And she said, "It never happened. You bought those online, and loaned them to the guy. He never returned them".

        Memories are imperfect.

        Brian Williams made a mistake. We all do.

        I think it's much ado about nothing.
        Exactly!

        It was 12 years ago, in the middle of war-torn chaos.
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    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I saw his apology a couple nights ago. I'm surprised that he did this but he's not the first. Wasn't it Hillary that exaggerated 2-3 years ago saying she was "under fire"? I don't remember but it seems to be foggy memory for some people who retell a story too often. It's a bit like witness at an accident scene who later claim they jumped in to help - trying to make themselves a bigger part of the story.

      I remember long after Vietnam. I was sitting at a bar with a man who was not only a vet but a decorated hero. I well knew the demons he carried about the war and how hard he struggled to leave them behind. He heard a man bragging about "being in the war" a few barstools down and commented "now that it's fashionable - every bleeding idiot claims to be a Vietnam vet".
      I sat next to a Vietnam vet at a bar (I was 13 when the US left) and this man was probably just 18 when he served. We had been talking for hours about everything so he opened up about his Vietnam experience as it has an impact on his present life. This was about 35 years after and the story he told me about how they cleared villages had marked him for life, is something they did to survive, and not a thing anybody would brag about. Or make up being a part of.
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I saw his apology a couple nights ago. I'm surprised that he did this but he's not the first. Wasn't it Hillary that exaggerated 2-3 years ago saying she was "under fire"?
      It was during her 2008 campaign when the First Lady made up that story about her and Chelsea getting shot at by snipers in Bosnia in 1996. During one of her apologies she cited sleep deprivation as the cause of her embellishment. At that time she had made foreign policy a centerpiece of her campaign, and a spokesman for the Obama campaign called it another attempt at exaggerating her role in foreign and domestic policy making.

      Sorta like Brian trying to bolster his combat news bona fides over time, I guess.

      Cheers

      -don
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
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    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    It was 12 years ago, lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      It was 12 years ago, lol.
      Yukon, according to the New York Times he's been telling this "story" for over 10 years. It's not like he's just recently been asked to recall a 12 year old story for the first time.


      Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

      He embellished a story he didn't really need to. It was a good story without the lie.
      Exactly, Tim. It took courage to do what he did. The self-aggrandizement was unnecessary.


      PS - With your new avatar it looks like you've gone into hiding. Quite a contrast from the last one.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    NBC and Brian Williams --> not the most trusted names in news.

    Kaplan: Brian Williams delivers blow to journalists by lying - NY Daily News

    Tom Brokaw wants Brian Williams fired | Page Six

    Brian Williams lied about his copter being shot, forced down in Iraq | Fox News

    Rosie O’Donnell: Brian Williams Lied Like Lance Armstrong | Mediaite

    Why Did Brian Williams Lie? - Jack Shafer - POLITICO Magazine

    NBC’S Brian Williams admits on air to lying

    NBC's Brian Williams Lied to Tim Russert About Helicopter Incident - Breitbart

    Brian Williams had no reason to lie | New York Post

    After Lying About Helicopter Shoot-Down in Iraq, Brian Williams' Katrina Stories Under Scrutiny

    12 years a liar: Brian Williams admits fake Iraq helicopter story [VIDEO] - Allen B. West - AllenBWest.com

    Video: Brian Williams' Smug Smile When David Letterman Calls Him a 'War Hero' - Breitbart

    Baltimore Sun Critic: Brian Williams 'Lied,' Should Be Removed

    Controversy grows over Brian Williams' Iraq apology - Feb. 5, 2015

    CNN On Brian Williams: Credibility Takes A Serious Blow

    With an Apology, Brian Williams Digs Himself Deeper in Copter Tale

    Brian Williams Taints His Brand

    Sharyl Attkisson: Brian Williams Not Alone; Hillary Clinton Lied About Being Shot At In Bosnia « CBS Philly

    Brian Williams: Uh, That Story About Me Getting Shot Down In A Helicopter Was A Lie - Matt Vespa

    Almost No One (Except for Dan Rather) Believes Brian Williams 'Made a Mistake' | National Review Online

    Flashback: Brian Williams Pushed Iraq Lie To David Letterman In 2013


    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
      I think the clock is ticking. Is there a termination/resignation pool yet?
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

        I think the clock is ticking. Is there a termination/resignation pool yet?
        Yeah, how I would vote depends on how credible NBC is. Currently, I don't consider them credible, so maybe they WILL keep him on!\

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Maybe someday he will have a show on Mark Cuban's news powerhouse AXS TV just like Dan Rather.

    Dan Rather Reports - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Big Interview | AXS TV

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      Maybe someday he will have a show on Mark Cuban's news powerhouse AXS TV just like Dan Rather.

      Dan Rather Reports - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      The Big Interview | AXS TV

      Cheers

      -don

      Rather claims he had the goods but the network punked out.
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        Rather claims he had the goods but the network punked out.
        He had nothing and he has admitted as much.

        Dan Rather:

        Last week, amid increasing questions about the authenticity of documents used in support of a "60 Minutes Wednesday" story about President Bush's time in the Texas Air National Guard, CBS News vowed to re-examine the documents in question-and their source-vigorously. And we promised that we would let the American public know what this examination turned up, whatever the outcome.

        Now, after extensive additional interviews, I no longer have the confidence in these documents that would allow us to continue vouching for them journalistically. I find we have been misled on the key question of how our source for the documents came into possession of these papers. That, combined with some of the questions that have been raised in public and in the press, leads me to a point where-if I knew then what I know now-I would not have gone ahead with the story as it was aired, and I certainly would not have used the documents in question.

        But we did use the documents. We made a mistake in judgment, and for that I am sorry. It was an error that was made, however, in good faith and in the spirit of trying to carry on a CBS News tradition of investigative reporting without fear or favoritism.

        Please know that nothing is more important to us than people's trust in our ability and our commitment to report fairly and truthfully.
        Dan Rather Statement On Memos - CBS News

        CBS News Statement:

        Bill Burkett, in a weekend interview with CBS News Anchor and Correspondent Dan Rather, has acknowledged that he provided the now-disputed documents used in the Sept. 8 "60 Minutes Wednesday" report on President Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard.

        Burkett, a retired National Guard lieutenant colonel, also admits that he deliberately misled the CBS News producer working on the report, giving her a false account of the documents' origins to protect a promise of confidentiality to the actual source.

        Burkett originally said he obtained the documents from another former Guardsman. Now he says he got them from a different source whose connection to the documents and identity CBS News has been unable to verify to this point. Burkett's interview will be featured in a full report on tonight's CBS Evening News with Dan Rather (6:30-7:00 p.m., ET/PT).

        In light of this and other developments reported by CBS News and other news organizations, CBS News President Andrew Heyward issued the following statement:

        "'60 Minutes Wednesday' had full confidence in the original report or it would not have aired. However, in the wake of serious and disturbing questions that came up after the broadcast, CBS News has done extensive additional reporting in an effort to confirm the documents' authenticity.

        That included an interview featured on last week's edition of "60 Minutes Wednesday" with Marian Carr Knox, secretary to the late Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, the officer named as the author of the documents; the interview with Bill Burkett to be seen tonight; and a further review of the forensic evidence on both sides of the debate.

        Based on what we now know, CBS News cannot prove that the documents are authentic, which is the only acceptable journalistic standard to justify using them in the report. We should not have used them. That was a mistake, which we deeply regret. Nothing is more important to us than our credibility and keeping faith with the millions of people who count on us for fair, accurate, reliable, and independent reporting. We will continue to work tirelessly to be worthy of that trust."
        CBS Statement On Bush Memos - CBS News

        Cheers

        -don
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

          He had nothing and he has admitted as much.

          Dan Rather:



          Dan Rather Statement On Memos - CBS News

          CBS News Statement:



          CBS Statement On Bush Memos - CBS News

          Cheers

          -don
          And maybe I mis-heard him a few years after the incident, but I'm sure I heard him alluded to him having the evidence but CBS punked out by not backing him to the hilt.

          Who's to know what when on at CBS after Dan's report went public?

          The above statements could be the network bowing to pressure along with Rather thinking he was saving his job and/or pension etc. and CBS trying to save face by saying all the right things.

          If not, what possessed Rather to utter such falsehoods a month before the general election of 2004 knowing the downside?

          Maybe he thought he was doing it for the sake of the country.

          I wouldn't bet my life on the above statements being the actual story.

          In any event, Bush43 was re-elected and the rest is history.


          Here's the first story I came across via a google search with Dan's revision...


          Dan Rather: Bush AWOL Documents 'Not Proven' False - Breitbart
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          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
            Banned
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            If not, what possessed Rather to utter such falsehoods a month before the general election of 2004 knowing the downside?
            He was a well known lefty with big bullhorn and he tried to take GWB down and he failed. He was not doing anything for America, he was doing it for the left. If he had pulled it off he would have been hailed as a hero by liberals worldwide. The source lied, Rather did not have the goods, and now he has a show on AXS TV. The punk was Dan Rather.

            If anything, he is much better suited for entertainment and not the news. I have posted this before but I think this is one my favorite Big Interviews... He is not spectacular by any means, but I give him credit for getting through the interview with the great Jack White.


            Cheers

            -don
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            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

              He was a well known lefty with big bullhorn and he tried to take GWB down and he failed. He was not doing anything for America, he was doing it for the left. If he had pulled it off he would have been hailed as a hero by liberals worldwide. The source lied, Rather did not have the goods, and now he has a show on AXS TV. The punk was Dan Rather.

              If anything, he is much better suited for entertainment and not the news. I have posted this before but I think this is one my favorite Big Interviews... He is not spectacular by any means, but I give him credit for getting through the interview with the great Jack White.

              The Big Interview with Dan Rather: Jack White - YouTube

              Cheers

              -don

              If you say so Don.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Serious. I hope he invested well because he's gonna have a "career shot down" story pretty soon.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Serious. I hope he invested well because he's gonna have a "career shot down" story pretty soon.
      If that is unforgivable for a news anchor, what about...
      http://youtu.be/rZHO1vo762c
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      Project HERE.

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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    His daughter is on that HBO show "Girls".
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    The proof is in the pudding...you just don't care for the flavor.

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      The proof is in the pudding...you just don't care for the flavor.

      Cheers

      -don
      And I guess you'd stake your life on that pudding?

      And, I would have loved it if it would have worked but in hindsight it would have prevented GWB from going on to become one of our greatest POTUS ever. Oh, bite my tongue - he already was.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    Why would an obviously intelligent man, like Williams, purposely fabricate part of a story, that can be easily checked..and where there are witnesses? And he's in a business where one mistake like this, can cost a career.

    It was a mistake. He corrected it.
    He corrected it only after he was called out on it. Not only that, he had to recant because he and the network were rapidly losing credibility and they were being hammered by many. Who knows why he started telling the story the way it didn't happen... Maybe he is so full of himself these days he thought he could get away with bolstering his combat news bona fides with a little fabrication.

    He's not the first smart guy to make a mistake and he won't be the last, and I highly doubt it's his first "mistake". Good grief, the guy is not the almighty for gosh sake.

    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    How many thousands of stories has he reported? I'm pretty happy with one mistake.
    One mistake, eh? I don't think I would go that far...

    Brian Williams certainly does have a problem with some his New Orleans speaks. The French Quarter did not sustain the major flooding like the Ninth Ward did, yet he says he saw a body floating down by his hotel in the French Quarter. This again smells like BS, and this is only one of his possible bogus recounts from Katrina.


    I have a particular interest in the floods as I built an a highly viewed Banda Aceh Tsunami photo gallery right after the Tsunami hit, and I built a popular Hurricane Katrina site that used to get 400,000+ page views a day. In-fact I started building that site a couple days before the storm hit because I knew it was going to be very, very bad.

    On top of that my neighborhood in Rockford sustained two one-hundred year floods in back to back years, and basically the entire lower part of neighborhood had to be torn down. Worse yet, my wife's parents home (the home my wife grew up in) was destroyed in the horrible five-hundred year flood that hit Cedar Rapids in 2008 that displaced 18,000 people and destroyed hundreds of businesses.

    My city in 2008...


    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    LoL. I guess MSNBC has no real newsmen (or women) and/or we don't know their political views.

    NBCUniversal owns the large left-wing news outfit, and as far as I know, they don't own a large right-wing televison news outfit. If they do, feel free to let me know which one it is. Of course news personalities have political views, and many of them do allow their views to creep into their broadcasts in one way or another.

    Many folks are well aware of Brian's political leanings, and let us not forget that Brian Williams was the anchor of The News with Brian Williams on MSNBC which first aired on July 15, 1996. You know what day that was? It was MSNBC's first day on the air.

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    @ TL

    Let it go. GWB did two terms because he was elected twice, and Dan Rather has a show on AXS because he screwed up. It's history now and it never meant a lot to most of us anyway. That said, it did mean a lot to the newsman, because he lost his credibility and most believe his job because of it.

    Several others at CBS lost their jobs over the report as well:

    CBS Senior Vice President: Betsy West
    60 Minutes Wednesday Executive Producer: Josh Howard
    Senior Broadcast Producer: Mary Murphy
    Piece Producer: Mary Mapes

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    From what I hear everybody wants his head except the folks at NBC and MSNBC.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      From what I hear everybody wants his head except the folks at NBC and MSNBC.
      Our outrage may be partly true. But the fake outrage in the media is covering up what they are all thinking "Better him than me".

      And they all want his head..today. Next week, this will be a non story.

      Remember our Ebola panic? When was that 50 years ago? No. two months ago.

      Who did we hate a month ago? I don't even remember anymore.
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Our outrage may be partly true. But the fake outrage in the media is covering up what they are all thinking "Better him than me".

        And they all want his head..today. Next week, this will be a non story.

        Remember our Ebola panic? When was that 50 years ago? No. two months ago.

        Who did we hate a month ago? I don't even remember anymore.
        Kurt does though.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Whatever. I like Brian Williams on the news. I hate MSNBC but I like NBC news - go figure. Wouldn't surprise me to find those who are "most outraged" have done far worse things themselves.

          If other people who were there - and in harm's way - have a problem with Williams' statements...I would respect their opinion. I think others should let it go with the apology.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Better him than me, eh?

    Please do tell us the name of another network anchorman or popular journalist that repeatedly lied about getting blown out of the sky, or forced down, after being hit with a rocket propelled grenade.

    Now Ebola?

    OK, Ebola is still in the news... HuffPo ran at least 4 stories on Ebola in the past two weeks:

    Building a Stronger Liberia After Ebola*|*Karin Landgren

    As Ebola Slows, UN Builds Treatment Clinics Despite Criticism That It 'Makes No Sense'

    WHO: New Ebola Cases Each Week Fall To Lowest Since June 2014

    These Photos Show Liberia's Hope And Relief As Ebola Wanes

    The 2015 Ebola increase report was making the rounds just a couple of days ago:

    BBC News - New Ebola cases show first rise in 2015

    Downward Ebola trend suddenly reverses itself

    This one from yesterday as well from USA Today:

    Military Ebola mission in Liberia coming to an end

    This one from two days ago also by USA Today:

    CDC finds lapses in latest lab mishap with Ebola virus

    This one from a few hours ago on NPR:

    Critics Say Ebola Crisis Was WHO's Big Failure. Will Reform Follow? : Goats and Soda : NPR

    Even Yahoo News is sill in the picture with this report from a few hours ago:

    State Dept. rewards ‘Ebola plane’ company with multimillion dollar raise

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Lance Reynolds, Joseph Miller, and Mike O’Keeffe were there...

    From coast to coast the sentiments seem to be similar...people can't believe Williams has told such a whopper. Obviously many in the military (and prior military) have a problem with Brian's statements including some of the guys that were there, and it sounds like they have had a problem for a while. In-fact they are the guys that called Williams out.

    Watch the videos on Stars and Stripes page for some insight. Yeah, it's the same Stars and Stripes that I read when I served in the 1980s, and it's the same Stars and Stripes that was founded in 1861.

    “It was something personal for us that was kind of life-changing for me. I know how lucky I was to survive it,” said Lance Reynolds, who was the flight engineer. “It felt like a personal experience that someone else wanted to participate in and didn't deserve to participate in.”

    O’Keeffe said the incident has bothered him since he and others first saw the original report after returning to Kuwait.
    The claim rankled Miller as well as soldiers aboard the formation of 159th Aviation Regiment Chinooks that were flying far ahead and did come under attack during the March 24, 2003, mission.
    “Over the years it faded,” he said, “and then to see it last week it was — I can’t believe he is still telling this false narrative.”
    NBC’s Brian Williams recants Iraq story after soldiers protest

    Plenty of people in the military and those with prior military experience have a problem with his statement. Especially those that have been in harm's way or in dangerous situations over the years. Some are inferring that this is almost a case of stolen valor.

    Williams’ story was first questioned in posts to the “Nightly News” Facebook page. It’s a touchy topic: Members of the military who are wounded or who come under enemy fire consider themselves members of a special kind of brotherhood and don’t like people who try to intrude, said retired U.S. Army Col. Pete Mansoor, a professor of military history at Ohio State University.

    “It smacks of stolen valor,” Mansoor said — an offense that Williams specifically denied in his online apology.
    “It’s pretty difficult to believe,” Mansoor said. “I remember every time I was under fire in Iraq, especially if your vehicle is an aircraft that’s been hit. That’s something that gets seared into your memory for all time.”
    Brian Williams' Credibility Questioned After Fake Iraq Story - ABC News

    I like what USMC Lt. Colonel Bill Cowan (ret) said...

    that’d be great if he would resign, considering what Williams did was a disservice to all legitimate combat journalists out there, many of whom have died, four of whom beheaded within the last few months.
    Lt. Col. Cowan was a Vietnam platoon commander at the siege of Khe Sanh, and was an advisor for the South Vietnam military in the Rung Sat Special Zone for two and a half years. In the 80's he worked with the ISA as the Deputy Operations Officer and he conducted many missions with a team that hunted down and targeted those responsible for the Marine barracks bombings in Beirut that killed 243 US servicemen.

    Maybe if you have not served in the military then you are not quite as upset, peeved, disappointed, or outraged. I don't want to hear some news guy say he did general quarters with me on a warship unless he actually did just that.

    To change his story from he was riding in a chopper to being shot down with an RPG is an absolute joke. The stretch is just to far... And to make matters worse, the chopper he was in was an hour behind the chopper that got hit. If his memory of events is that bad then he may need to consider not reporting the news.

    We expect much better from the anchor of a major network news desk and the face of NBC News. What next, will he tell us he landed on the moon?

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      It's not up to me to expect better of anyone except myself and my immediate family. Someone tells whopper - is called on it - has to apologize in public - is outed and embarrassed. It may be a big story to soldiers who were there - but not for me.

      I don't think it should end a long career. Hillary said she was shot at - she wasn't. Elizabeth Warren claimed to be a minority to get special consideration - and it was a blatant lie. For both stories, there was a bit of fuss and then forgotten. This one is no different and probably less important as this is a news anchor rather than a potential leader.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    You can bet Hillary's "sniper fire" and especially the "what difference does it make" incidents are not forgotten. Just wait until the campaign heats up and you will hear plenty (and more) when her credibility is again on the line. IMO many of those who feel as if they have been slighted by the Williams fabrication will not quickly forget it.

    As far as the importance aspect goes, it's crucial that a news anchor does not lose his or her credibility for the network and the anchor (and the public). I can't wait to hear him explain how he saw a body floating down a street in the French Quarter from his hotel window when the French Quarter sustained much less flooding, comparatively speaking. It never happened the way he told the story, and he will probably never offer an explanation or an apology.

    You keep referring to the "soldiers that were there" but it goes well beyond that. It's offensive and/or not acceptable to many that have served the country, both active duty and those with prior service. I think we have at least two former military members that have posted those or similar sentiments on this thread.

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Sometimes, I'll see a thread like this, and read it a few times, because I can't understand the reactions. Sometimes the outrage seems unjustified to me.

      But in this case, I think I found it.

      I only knew Brian Williams as a news anchor on NBC. I never thought about his politics. I never really noticed them, either. Dennis brought it to my attention.

      My guess (and it's just a guess) is that his politics shape much of the outrage on this thread.

      I don't watch FOX very often. But I'm guessing that the story there...is way different from the story in ABC and CBS.

      And if Williams were a broadcaster on a conservative station, we would be hearing outrage from a completely different group.

      This is just a guess. But it's one based on experience.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Sometimes, I'll see a thread like this, and read it a few times, because I can't understand the reactions. Sometimes the outrage seems unjustified to me.

        But in this case, I think I found it...

        I'm not going back to reread this thread, but I don't recall a lot of "outrage" about this, only discussion.

        FWIW, I'd say the same thing I've said here no matter who said it. Politics don't enter into it for me. If you can't trust those who bring you the news, there's a problem, a big problem.


        My guess (and it's just a guess) is that his politics shape much of the outrage [discussion] on this thread
        I can only speak for myself, but in my case, your guess is completely wrong.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Dennis in bold.


          I'm not going back to reread this thread, but I don't recall a lot of "outrage" about this, only discussion.

          The explanation is that you and I hear with a different ear.

          FWIW, I'd say the same thing I've said here no matter who said it. Politics don't enter into it for me. If you can't trust those who bring you the news, there's a problem, a big problem.

          I believe you. And I agree. And if the third thing I heard Williams say, was untrue....I would ignore everything else he ever reported. But he's been on the air for decades. One mistake isn't a trend. Maybe I just give it less importance than you.


          I can only speak for myself, but in my case, your guess is completely wrong.

          I meant the thread in general. And I've made the mistake..again...of commenting on the posts, and how I see them. I'll make an effort to remember how irritating that is.

          But it's always the most interesting part to me.


          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          IMHO, the outrage is across the board and the only people backing Williams now is MSNBC and NBC.

          He's called liberal by some because he doesn't go after dems with the same relish as someone from Fox would and may have made a comment or two in favor of something dems or #44 has said or done, or questioned a lunatic statement or two from someone on the right.

          But IMHO the outrage is across the board.
          I'll give you that. I'm only seeing a small piece of it, and that's what's being posted here....and his apology.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            ...if the third thing I heard Williams say, was untrue....I would ignore everything else he ever reported. But he's been on the air for decades. One mistake isn't a trend. Maybe I just give it less importance than you.
            Claude, you're a good guy. But Williams was in a helicopter an hour behind the one that was shot down. According to the soldiers that were there, he was never in grave danger.

            You believe his "story" was a false memory. I don't believe you "misremember" being shot down. He has notes, he's admitted, that tell the true story. There are videos of him telling the true story. Yet, he kept telling the story over and over and didn't confess or apologize until he was forced to.

            While this doesn't fit the legal definition of Stolen Valor, it's very similar. That's why people are outraged. That, and being lied to.

            I know a lot of people think he should lose his job over this. I think it's a good thing if he doesn't. Whatever he says from here on will be treated with a healthy measure of skepticism by more people, and that's a good thing. We need more citizens who question authority rather than blindly drink their Kool-Aid.

            That skepticism will extend to his network if he remains, and that's a good thing, too. We should be skeptical of all news outlets or we risk being misled.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

              You believe his "story" was a false memory. I don't believe you "misremember" being shot down. He has notes, he's admitted, that tell the true story. There are videos of him telling the true story. Yet, he kept telling the story over and over and didn't confess or apologize until he was forced to.
              .
              Dennis; Truly, I am not following this story. I watched him apologize on TV, watched the video of him apologizing (to refresh my memory), and read this thread (or most of it). And that's all the thought I've given it.

              In my past, I have also remembered and told a story, as it really happened. And years later, I remember it differently, and tell a different story. I'm not saying that's what happened. But it has happened to me.

              I keep copious notes of old sales training I've done. Once in a while, I'll leaf through the notes and think "My God, this isn't what I remember at all."

              But I know this. The notes are right. My current memory is wrong.

              Anyway, I enjoy bantering with you.

              I'm going to tell you a secret, my Friend.

              When I give speeches, I tell maybe 25 stories in a speech. I have three speeches. So that's about 75 separate stories. I have been telling these stories for years.

              One of these stories, out of 75....never happened. My wife asked me about it years ago. I told her that the story is actually one I made up, I think, as an example. It may have been an analogy, I don't know.

              Now..I have no idea which story it is. I keep telling the stories. They all ring true. But one isn't a real memory. And I can't figure out which one it is. But I know why. It's because I'm remembering the story, not the experience.

              My parents used to tell me stories about when I was a kid. And sometimes, I remember the incident in an entirely different way. Is someone lying? I wouldn't think so.

              So I would tend to give a newscaster a pass. The same as I would give anyone a pass.
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Sometimes, I'll see a thread like this, and read it a few times, because I can't understand the reactions. Sometimes the outrage seems unjustified to me.

        But in this case, I think I found it.

        I only knew Brian Williams as a news anchor on NBC. I never thought about his politics. I never really noticed them, either. Dennis brought it to my attention.

        My guess (and it's just a guess) is that his politics shape much of the outrage on this thread.

        I don't watch FOX very often. But I'm guessing that the story there...is way different from the story in ABC and CBS.

        And if Williams were a broadcaster on a conservative station, we would be hearing outrage from a completely different group.

        This is just a guess. But it's one based on experience.


        IMHO, the outrage is across the board and the only people backing Williams now is MSNBC and NBC.

        He's called liberal by some because he doesn't go after dems with the same relish as someone from Fox would and may have made a comment or two in favor of something dems or #44 has said or done, or questioned a lunatic statement or two from someone on the right.

        But IMHO the outrage is across the board.

        I and many other progressives/liberals don't really give a hoot about someone from the mainstream media like CBS, NBC or ABC getting into trouble because IMHO, they have aided and abetted nefarious, counterproductive forces within this country in many, many ways - for many, many years.
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Sometimes, I'll see a thread like this, and read it a few times, because I can't understand the reactions. Sometimes the outrage seems unjustified to me.

        But in this case, I think I found it.

        I only knew Brian Williams as a news anchor on NBC. I never thought about his politics. I never really noticed them, either. Dennis brought it to my attention.

        My guess (and it's just a guess) is that his politics shape much of the outrage on this thread.

        I don't watch FOX very often. But I'm guessing that the story there...is way different from the story in ABC and CBS.

        And if Williams were a broadcaster on a conservative station, we would be hearing outrage from a completely different group.

        This is just a guess. But it's one based on experience.
        I think you have missed the mark by three or four thousand miles...maybe more. Maybe you were making another joke that like you like to do so much on these threads? Obviously you have not been following the story, and obviously you do not know the scope, depth, or breadth of the coverage of this story from coast to coast.

        This is not about his politics. What this is about is the face of a news network that may not be able to be trusted to tell the truth. Moreover, it's about his and the network's credibility. Beyond that it's about all of the people that have served the military that have been offended by his attempt to grab a bit of "extra glory" or whatever you want to call it. And last but not least, it's about the ability of America being able to look Tom Brokaw in the eye and take him seriously.

        America deserves better from the top anchor on the top news desk...the face of NBC news.

        CNN and CNBC are the two television news networks that I watch the most, and not many in the media have ignored this story. While NBC & MSNBC and CNBC have largely avoided covering their own reputation hit, it's obvious that they are now quite concerned.

        You should get some facts before jumping to the conclusion that this is politically motivated. IMO, a good number of folks are upset with Brian because he told such a big lie that has in some ways slighted true American heroes. The media is upset because it damages their reputation. Military peeps are upset for obvious reasons. The people are upset because they wonder if they can trust Williams to tell the truth. Maybe he tells 5% stories and 95% truth. Is that good enough for you? Maybe his ego is so big he has fattened up some other stories? Yeah, this is what happens when a major newsman and celebrity darling is caught in such a big fabrication.

        Dan Rather and other CBS personnel took a giant hit for one bad story....sometimes all it takes to lose credibility or forever tarnish reputations in the media is one or two bogus stories.

        Since you seem to have missed almost all the coast to coast reportage on this story I will link a few articles for you below.

        Let's start with AP/CBS....

        NEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) — NBC Nightly News anchor Brian Williams‘ credibility has been seriously threatened since he falsely claimed he had been in a helicopter hit by a grenade during the Iraq war.

        NBC News officials would not say whether their top on-air personality would face disciplinary action. Williams, the “Nightly News” anchor for just over a decade, had become an online punching bag overnight.

        “How could you expect anyone who served in the military to ever see this guy onscreen again and not feel contempt?” wrote critic David Zurawik, of the Baltimore Sun. “How could you expect anyone to believe he or the broadcast he leads has any credibility?”
        Brian Williams Loses Credibility After Fake War Claim, Apology « CBS New York

        A small piece about an ABC honcho creating a task force to investigate Williams...

        ABC honcho’s ‘secret task force’ to investigate Brian Williams as NBC probes Iraq helicopter attack tale

        Ben Sherwood, the president of Disney-ABC Television Group, has put together the task force to see if the ‘NBC Nightly News’ anchor has told any other tall tales, sources told The Daily News on Friday. ABC officials denied that such a task force exists. Meanwhile, Richard Esposito, who leads the Peacock Network’s investigative unit, has been assigned to look into Williams for lying about dodging danger while reporting in Iraq, sources said.
        ABC honcho’s ‘secret task force’ to investigate Brian Williams as NBC probes Iraq helicopter attack tale

        CNN you ask?

        An investigation was underway at NBC News on Friday as TV news insiders are transfixed by a single question: Is Brian Williams going to be suspended -- or worse?
        TV industry is asking: Can Brian Williams survive this? - Feb. 6, 2015

        Even the darling boy Perez Hilton has chimed in. Do you know what direction Perez leans?

        Did Brian Williams Lie About Other News Stories?? Find Out Why Tom Brokaw Wants Him Fired HERE!

        Currently in question is Williams' depiction of seeing a dead body float by in New Orleans' French Quarter during Hurricane Katrina — an area that did not actually experience flooding.

        According to other sources inside the network, Brokaw — who was the anchor when Williams was in Iraq — and NBC News President Steve Capus knew that Williams was lying. Apparently Williams had even been told to stop telling the story.
        Did Brian Williams Lie About Other News Stories?? Find Out Why Tom Brokaw Wants Him Fired HERE! | PerezHilton.com

        How about the New York Times... You know, the same NYT that is known to lean left.

        With an Apology, Brian Williams Digs Himself Deeper in Copter Tale

        For years, Brian Williams had been telling a story that wasn’t true. On Wednesday night, he took to his anchor chair on “NBC Nightly News” to apologize for misleading the public.

        On Thursday, his real problems started.

        A host of military veterans and pundits came forward on television and social media, challenging Mr. Williams’s assertion that he had simply made a mistake when he spoke, on several occasions, about having been in a United States military helicopter forced down by enemy fire in Iraq in 2003. Some went so far as to call for his resignation.
        With an Apology, Brian Williams Digs Himself Deeper in Copter Tale

        Now let's tale a look at one of the left's favorite publications, The Huffington Post.

        Brian Williams' Future Uncertain As NBC News Investigates Iraq, Katrina Coverage

        While management may not be revealing more until the investigation concludes, the Williams controversy is the talk of 30 Rock. Staffers are questioning whether he can weather the media storm and if he has enough allies to keep in him in the anchor desk.

        Some at the network have speculated that former “Nightly News” anchor Tom Brokaw isn’t a fan of Williams and has been particularly upset about his successor’s admittedly false claim about his Iraq war reporting.
        Brian Williams' Future Uncertain As NBC News Investigates Iraq, Katrina Coverage

        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        . And if the third thing I heard Williams say, was untrue....I would ignore everything else he ever reported.
        I think we may already be at or beyond three fabrications that have came out just in the past few days. He said he was shot down and he wasn't, he inferred that he was flying in formation with the chopper that got hit, he wasn't. Many people think his apology contained more fabrications, his story about seeing a body floating in the French Quarter from his hotel window is being scrutinized, and if you would do a bit of research you would find many of his other accounts from N.O. are also very shaky. It appears as if he may be doing a bit of embellishing to make stories seem a bit more dramatic. Not good...newsmen are not supposed to do that. Hollywood is the place for dramatizations...

        Now to another article from the New York Times...a newspaper loved by the left.

        Scrambling to contain a crisis engulfing one of its most prominent on-air personalities, NBC will begin an internal investigation into Brian Williams, the embattled evening news anchor who has admitted he misled the public with a harrowing tale of a forced helicopter landing in Iraq.

        The “fact-checking” inquiry, confirmed on Friday by several people in the network’s news division, will review not only the Iraq incident but also Mr. Williams’s reporting during Hurricane Katrina in 2005, as well as any other issues that arise during the investigation.

        Executives canceled external meetings and said that the issue was absorbing all of their focus, people in the news division said. Current and former NBC employees discussed the ultimate fate of the news anchor, shocked by his fall from grace and the turmoil it had created at the network.

        If Mr. Williams is forced to step down, it would be a huge blow to the news division, which is in a cutthroat ratings race with the rival networks. In this season to date, NBC has averaged 9.3 million total viewers for its nightly broadcast, compared with 8.7 million for ABC and 7.3 million for CBS, according to Nielsen.

        In addition to tarnishing Mr. Williams’s once pristine reputation, the scandal has led to broader questions about the management and the credibility of NBC’s news operations.

        “NBC’s credibility is damaged by this because their principal news figurehead, which is really what an anchorman is, had some clear credibility questions distinguishing the truth from the reality,” said Mark Feldstein, a professor of broadcast journalism at the University of Maryland, who previously worked at NBC News.
        For NBC, Mr. Williams is more than just a nightly news anchor. He’s a bona fide celebrity on par with Jimmy Fallon, Matt Lauer and Bob Costas in representing the face of the broadcast network. Should Mr. Williams be forced to step down, it is not clear who a successor would be, industry executives said.
        On Friday, other statements by Mr. Williams also started to draw close scrutiny. Some blogs and media outlets questioned Mr. Williams’s description of what he saw while reporting on Hurricane Katrina. In one account, he described seeing a person committing suicide. At another time, he said that he had heard a story of a man killing himself by jumping from the upper deck of the Superdome in New Orleans.
        Brian Williams Faces ‘Fact-Checking’ Inquiry at NBC

        This has very little to do with politics and all to do with an anchor and a network's credibility, and their ability to weather the storm without losing substantial viewership.

        Cheers

        -don
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

          I think you have missed the mark by three or four thousand miles...maybe more. Maybe you were making another joke that like you like to do so much on these threads? Obviously you have not been following the story, and obviously you do not know the scope, depth, or breadth of the coverage of this story from coast to coast.

          This is not about his politics even though Williams is card carrying lefty. What it does have to with is the face of a news network that may not be able to be trusted to tell the truth. Moreover, it's about his and the network's credibility. Beyond that it's about all of the people that have served the military that have been offended by his attempt to grab a bit of "extra glory" or whatever you want to call it. And lastly, it's about the ability of America being able to look Tom Brokaw in the eye and take him seriously.

          America deserves better from the top anchor on the top news desk...the face of NBC news.

          While CNN and CNBC are the two news networks that I watch the most, not many in the media have ignored this story. While NBC has largely avoided covering their own reputation hit, it's obvious that they are now quite concerned.

          You should get some facts before jumping to conclusion that all things are politically motivated. IMO, most of the people are upset with Brian because he told such a big lie that has in some ways slighted true American Heros. The media is upset because it damages their reputation. Military peeps are upset for obvious reasons. The people are upset because they wonder if they can trust Williams to tell the truth. Maybe he tells 5% stories and 95% truth. Is that good enough for you? Maybe his ego is so big he has fattened up some other stories? Yeah, this is what happens when a major newsman is caught in such a big fabrication.

          Dan Rather and other CBS personnel took a giant hit for one bad story....sometimes all it takes to lose credibility or forever tarnish reputations in the media is one or two bogus stories.

          Since you seem to have missed almost all the coast to coast reportage on this story I will link a few articles for you below.

          Let's start with AP/CBS....



          Brian Williams Loses Credibility After Fake War Claim, Apology « CBS New York

          A small piece about an ABC honcho creating a task force to investigate Williams...



          ABC honcho

          CNN you ask?



          TV industry is asking: Can Brian Williams survive this? - Feb. 6, 2015

          Even the darling boy Perez Hilton has chimed in. Do you know what direction Perez leans?



          Did Brian Williams Lie About Other News Stories?? Find Out Why Tom Brokaw Wants Him Fired HERE! | PerezHilton.com

          How about the New York Times... You know, the same NYT that is known to lean left.



          http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/06/bu...nged.html?_r=0

          Now let's tale a look at one of the left's favorite publications, The Huffington Post.



          Brian Williams' Future Uncertain As NBC News Investigates Iraq, Katrina Coverage

          This has very little to do with politics and all to do with an anchor and a network's credibility, and their ability to weather the storm without losing substantial viewership.

          Cheers

          -don
          I will admit that I smile when I see that you are spending a lot of thought, directed at me, on something that I'm barely thinking about at all.
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          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I will admit that I smile when I see that you are spending a lot of thought, directed at me, on something that I'm barely thinking about at all.
            It's called OCD, but that another medical thread, entirely. :-)

            Just kidding, Don! Sorta. lol

            Cheers. - Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I will admit that I smile when I see that you are spending a lot of thought, directed at me, on something that I'm barely thinking about at all.
            LoL ---> while you are occasionally quoted, the replies are not directed to "just" you. I like to offer a few facts when I see misguided opinion on a public thread that I have an interest in. I suspect more people than just you are eyeballing your "barely thinking about it" replies.

            You are continually posting your thoughts on a serious thread even though you are barely thinking about. Got it. Nothing really new for you though, eh? Not many facts needed...just a few jokes, a bit of psychobabble, some unsubstantiated opinion, and tons of hit and run posts which often have nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

            Don't worry...we are used to your "barely thinking about it" posts.

            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Dennis; Truly, I am not following this story.
            Hahahaha --> yet you have made at least nine posts to this thread about a "story that you are not following".

            Quite telling, I'd say.

            Cheers

            -don
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

              LoL ---> while you are occasionally quoted, the replies are not directed to "just" you. I like to offer a few facts when I see misguided opinion on a public thread that I have an interest in. I suspect more people than just you are eyeballing your "barely thinking about it" replies.

              You are continually posting your thoughts on a serious thread even though you are barely thinking about. Got it. Nothing really new for you though, eh? Not many facts needed...just a few jokes, a bit of psychobabble, some unsubstantiated opinion, and tons of hit and run posts which often have nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

              Don't worry...we are used to your "barely thinking about it" posts.
              You seem like a nice person. I like you.


              Added later; There is a "View Post" on posts by member on an Ignore list. I clicked it once, out of curiosity. If you wonder why I'm not engaging with you..now you know.
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              • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                You seem like a nice person. I like you.
                That's great, but I am a bit too nice my wife of almost 31 years tells me. She want's me to raise my prices and stop giving folks such great deals. I have a hard time doing that though, as it's something I have done for almost 30 years...a technique I learned when I was running brick and mortar consumer electronics shops in my early days of sales.

                I suppose I could toss a lame "I like your forehead --- as a ski slope" joke your way, but I much prefer my comedy live or on the tube, and not so much on the non-comedy threads.

                Cheers

                -don
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              Old Brian once criticized HuffPost for their sensational headlines, which I agree with for the most part. The last couple of days HP seems to be relishing this story with huge headlines calling him Lying Brian! lol

              I find Brian's excuse for the "mistake" hard to believe. As others have said here, if you were actually in a helicopter that was hit by a grenade and forced down, you would remember it.

              He embellished a story he didn't really need to. It was a good story without the lie. I think the embellishment may cost him his job and if it does, that is what he deserves. I don't feel bad for him, he's made a lot of money.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    CNN put together a fairly comprehensive timeline of his reports here:

    How Brian Williams' Iraq story changed - Feb. 5, 2015

    He spoke on it many, may times...

    March 23, 2003 - The Incident
    March 26, 2003
    March 2005
    July 2007
    July 2007
    September 2007
    April 2008
    April 2008
    March 2013 - Letterman
    March 2013
    January 2015 - Says he was shot down by an RPG on Nightly News.

    The people that were there said the chopper Williams was flying in was about an hour behind the chopper that got hit by the RPG. Here is Brian telling the story to Tim Russert in 2005:

    This was from Kuwait to near Najaf. Low and slow, remember those words. Because I was traveling with retired four-star General Wayne Downing, who was our military adviser. There is a bubble window in the wall of a Chinook helicopter made of Plexiglas, really so you can stick your head out and look below the helicopter and yet still be in an enclosed environment. General Downing, who knows a thing or two about this, looked out that window and said, `This is hot,' meaning it was full of enemy. It was full of unpoliced Iraqis. He might have used one or two other choice words there but I'll leave it at hot, Tim. It was no more than 120 seconds later that the helicopter in front of us was hit. A pickup truck stopped on the road, pulled a tarp back; a guy got up, fired an RPG, rocket-propelled grenade. These were farmers or so they seemed. And it beautifully pierced the tail rotor of the Chinook in front of us.
    A pilot named Rich Krell contradicted the other people that were there that said Brian's chopper was an hour or so behind, but when pressed Krell said this:

    "Good morning. The information I gave you was true based on my memories, but at this point I am questioning my memories that I may have forgotten or left something out."
    Here are the guys that supposedly did pilot the chopper Brian was traveling in:

    On Thursday night, two others, Christopher Simeone and Allan Kelly, told The New York Times that they -- not Krell -- had piloted Williams' helicopter, and that "they did not recall their convoy of helicopters coming under fire."

    Simeone, Kelly and a third soldier, Joseph Miller, also spoke with The Omaha World-Herald. The newspaper wrote this:

    "Simeone and Kelly said only two helicopters were in their group, from Company B of the 159th Aviation. They said Krell was piloting the first helicopter. Simeone and Kelly were pilots on the second Chinook, and Miller was in their crew."
    What does the CNN report conclude?

    Bottom line: this pilot is revising his story - and, because of that, I'm revising mine.
    What initially looked like an account that supported some of Brian Williams' war story -- that he came "under fire" that day -- no longer appears to be true.
    Pilot in Brian Williams scandal: 'I am questioning my memories'

    The Jan 30, 2015 comment is the one that nails the coffin shut on this fabrication.

    The story actually started with a terrible moment a dozen years back during the invasion of Iraq when the helicopter we were traveling in was forced down after being hit by an RPG. Our traveling NBC News team was rescued, surrounded and kept alive by an armor mechanized platoon from the U.S. Army 3rd Infantry.
    Timeline: How Brian Williams' story about helicopter attack changed over the years

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      CNN put together a fairly comprehensive timeline of his reports here:

      How Brian Williams' Iraq story changed - Feb. 5, 2015

      He spoke on it many, may times...

      March 23, 2003 - The Incident
      March 26, 2003
      March 2005
      July 2007
      July 2007
      September 2007
      April 2008
      April 2008
      March 2013 - Letterman
      March 2013
      January 2015 - Says he was shot down by an RPG on Nightly News.

      The people that were there said the chopper Williams was flying in was an hour behind the chopper that got hit by the RPG. However, it is being reported by another source that was their that the chopper actually was in formation and not an hour behind. Here is Brian telling the story to Tim Russert in 2005.



      The Jan 30, 2015 comment is the one that nails the coffin shut on this fabrication. Anyway, the story changed drastically from 2013 to 2015.



      Timeline: How Brian Williams' story about helicopter attack changed over the years | NJ.com

      Cheers

      -don
      The massive problem is... in theory... he is a "Journalist." This literally means "a person who keeps a journal."

      So......................................

      He "journaled" his experiences on paper, video, audio or...... whatever during his travels..... One cannot excuse his embellishment as "not remembering correctly." If he was foggy at all.... about what happened... and when... He can go back to his records.

      He is supposedly a "Professional Journalist." This is not your uncle Bob retelling his heroic adventures during the Vietnam War at a family dinner..... This is a "Professional Journalist" speaking to millions of viewers.... Accuracy is one of the required traits.
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

        The massive problem is... in theory.. he is a "Journalist." This literally means a person who keeps a journal."

        So......................................

        He "journaled" his experiences on paper, video, audio or...... whatever during his travels..... One cannot excuse his embellishment as "not remembering correctly." If he was foggy at all.... about what happened... and when... He can go back to his records.

        He is supposedly a "Professional Journalist." This is not your uncle Bob retelling his heroic adventures during the Vietnam War at a family dinner..... This is a "Professional Journalist" speaking to millions of viewers.... Accuracy is one of the required traits.
        Agreed, and I have written similar sentiments a time or two on this thread.

        Cheers

        -don
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  • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
    Signature
    Marketing is not a battle of products. It is a battle of perceptions.
    - Jack Trout
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    A big hello to Lester Holt! You can bet Brian has his fingers crossed that nothing more is dug up while he is taking a few days off hoping and praying this will blow over. The ratings over the next month or two may be a bit interesting to watch....and of course many are left wondering if any other shoes will drop.

    The statement has been posted to the NBC News site as well...

    A Personal Note from Brian Williams

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Jon Stewart had a funny and interesting take on his friend Brian's problems with veracity. "We got us a case here of infotainment confusion syndrome. It occurs when the celebrity cortex gets its wires crossed with the medulla anchordala," and compared what Brian did to self love ( masturbation ): "Like with most cases of masturbation, typically, being caught is punishment enough. Self-love can be a bad habit. Probably shouldn't do it at your work desk."

      He also got on the media for coming down so hard on Williams when they didn't seem to do the same before we went to war in Iraq.

      "Finally, someone is being held to account for misleading America about the Iraq War! Finally! Now, it might not necessarily be the first person you'd want held accountable on that list, but never again will Brian Williams mislead this great nation about being shot at in a war we probably wouldn't have ended up in if the media had applied this level of certainty to the actual f@%king war."

      Guardians of the Veracity - The Daily Show - Video Clip | Comedy Central
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      BW has sought the counsel of this guy:

      http://youtu.be/pkYNBwCEeH4
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Yeah, Brian Williams thinks he is an entertainer. Unfortunately for the public, sometimes he seems to get his newsman and his entertainer roles mixed up.

    David Letterman appearances = 21

    Late Night with Jimmy Fallon appearances = 18

    Jon Stewart's Daily Show appearances = 22

    Tonight Show With Jimmy Fallon appearances = 3

    Late Night with Seth Meyers appearances = 2

    And he has hosted Saturday Night Live...

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      Yeah, Brian Williams thinks he is an entertainer. Unfortunately for the public, sometimes he seems to get his newsman and his entertainer roles mixed up.

      David Letterman appearances = 21

      Late Night with Jimmy Fallon appearances = 18

      Jon Stewart's Daily Show appearances = 22

      Tonight Show With Jimmy Fallon appearances = 3

      Late Night with Seth Meyers appearances = 2

      And he has hosted Saturday Night Live...

      Cheers

      -don
      I see it this way......

      David Letterman appearances = 21

      Late Night with Jimmy Fallon appearances = 18

      Jon Stewart's Daily Show appearances = 22

      Tonight Show With Jimmy Fallon appearances = 3

      Late Night with Seth Meyers appearances = 2

      Credibility = 0
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Maybe I'd be a little angrier, if not for the fact that literally 100% of men have told stories...where they were in a more heroic position..than what really happened.

        All of us do it. I do, you do....everyone has.

        Maybe 5% of men are gay, so maybe you don't like that.

        About 50% of married men, including the men here, have cheated on their wives, at least once. So, maybe we can say that this behavior is unusual (but only half of us)

        But 100% of us have told a story..to people who trust us, that is edited to make us look better.

        We have all made ourselves the hero of a story, when it really wasn't true. In fact, in nearly every story we tell, we are either the hero, or the victim. It's simply the way the brain is wired. It's the way we are.

        That's why it's difficult for me to say that Williams has no credibility. If that's true, then none of us do.

        And if someone says, "I have never ever exaggerated a story, to make myself look better". That person is lying.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Maybe I'd be a little angrier, if not for the fact that literally 100% of men have told stories...where they were in a more heroic position..than what really happened.

          All of us do it. I do, you do....everyone has.
          Do you tell outrageous lies about your vacuum cleaners in order to make a sale?


          Williams was lying to his "customers." It wasn't a little white lie told over a beer at the bar, or wee bit of exaggeration to impress a girl; and as Tim said, the self-aggrandizement wasn't necessary. He had a good story without it.
          Signature

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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            Do you tell outrageous lies about your vacuum cleaners in order to make a sale?
            .
            No. But we all lie. I told small lies. I still do. So do you. So does everyone. To me, the Williams case is a relatively small lie. Should he quit? Don't know. Should NBC fire him? Probably. They have an image to uphold.


            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            the self-aggrandizement wasn't necessary. He had a good story without it.
            But, he wanted to make it a better story. And he did. Just like we all do. Most of us don't even edit real stories, we just make them up, out of whole cloth.

            Haven't you ever caught a real friend, someone you trusted...maybe someone you loved...in a complete lie? So have I. Have you ever lied..I mean a big lie...to someone you love? I have. So has virtually everyone I know. Again, it's just part of the way we work.

            So, it's not like this is an unusual case.

            Think of any newscaster. Do you think there is one who has never lied on camera? Maybe, but that's not the way I would bet.

            By the way, I'm assuming (for the sake of argument) that Williams intentionally, knowingly told a lie. But..as I've said before, I'm not following the story as closely as many of you.
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            • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              No. But we all lie. I told small lies. I still do. So do you. So does everyone. To me, the Williams case is a relatively small lie.
              He told a big lie.

              Should he quit? Don't know. Should NBC fire him? Probably. They have an image to uphold.
              Now you are finally seeing a bit of the big picture. In a previous post you had stated this...

              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              I think it's much ado about nothing.
              Now you think NBC should probably fire him. Got it. I do remember earlier on this thread you spoke of torches and pitchforks.

              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              I'm just not quick to get the torches and pitchforks.
              I guess you do have one hand on the pitchfork...

              But, he wanted to make it a better story. And he did.
              No he didn't. He made it a worse story... Not only that but he turned the real story into a lie that may cost him his job. Look at how much embarrassment this has caused NBC --> and here you are saying it was a "better story". The better story was the real story.

              Just like we all do. Most of us don't even edit real stories, we just make them up, out of whole cloth.
              Maybe you do, but many of us don't.

              Haven't you ever caught a real friend, someone you trusted...maybe someone you loved...in a complete lie? So have I.
              Was your friend the anchor and face of NBC News? No, he (or she) wasn't.

              Have you ever lied..I mean a big lie...to someone you love? I have. So has virtually everyone I know. Again, it's just part of the way we work.
              So you tell big whoppers that could be considered by some to be stolen valor, eh? You tell these lies to your customers? At the companies I have owned and/or managed, if you told me a big lie I fired you. If you told me a little lie that had to do with work I probably still fired you unless I was in a real pinch for help during a busy time. I do not tolerate liars in the workplace, especially when a salesman lies to a customer, my staff, or myself. It causes problems in the workplace, and problems for the company, and I don't and won't tolerate it

              So, it's not like this is an unusual case.
              Yes, this is an unusual case. Not many anchors get caught in such a big lie, and not many famous anchors have reported that they were shot down by an RPG when they weren't.

              Think of any newscaster. Do you think there is one who has never lied on camera? Maybe, but that's not the way I would bet.
              Name a few national anchors that have been caught in such a big lies that kept have their jobs. Name one big national anchor that has said he (or she) got shot down when they were not shot down.

              By the way, I'm assuming (for the sake of argument) that Williams intentionally, knowingly told a lie. But..as I've said before, I'm not following the story as closely as many of you.
              12 posts to a thread on a topic you are not following closely. Got it.

              Cheers

              -don
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            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              No. But we all lie. I told small lies. I still do. So do you. So does everyone. To me, the Williams case is a relatively small lie.
              I might tell my wife she looks great if she asks me if her butt is getting bigger, but I don't lie to my customers. In his position, the public is the equivalent of his customers.

              He knew the truth, and then started embellishing it. Those embellishment grew to heroic proportions. You want to call it a small lie, that's your choice, but I find it hard to believe and completely inconsistent with the kind of person I thought you were. It tells me you'll never understand this.

              Did you read the article Don posted?
              We shouldn’t believe Williams’ lie was an innocent mistake
              If not, I recommend it. Then do some research on stolen valor.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                I might tell my wife she looks great if she asks me if her butt is getting bigger, but I don't lie to my customers. In his position, the public is the equivalent of his customers.

                He knew the truth, and then started embellishing it. Those embellishment grew to heroic proportions. You want to call it a small lie, that's your choice, but I find it hard to believe and completely inconsistent with the kind of person I thought you were. It tells me you'll never understand this.
                .
                Dennis; You and I disagree on what a major lie is. His story was already heroic. He was already in danger. The only lie (that I remember) is that he said his plane was also hit.

                He didn't say he saved the plane. He didn't say he won the war. He didn't say that he saved lives. He said his plane was hit (if I remember correctly). To me, that's not even more heroic. In fact, it doesn't even make it a better story. And that's why, I initially said that I thought it could have been an error in memory. The story doesn't put him in a better light at all (at least from my perspective).

                I can see that you take this story personally. I do not. Maybe that's another difference.

                Dennis; It saddens me that your opinion of me has changed over this. My opinion of you has not. Have you noticed that just about every one of my posts here, is a reply to you? I respect very few people's opinion here. Yours is one I do. And no matter what your opinion is of my opinion, that will continue.

                And I can't read Don's posts. I have his posts set on Ignore. Out of curiosity, I read one (sorry, two) of his posts, and responded. but it was a joke response. (both of them)

                But the link you posted, shows a deep feeling about this subject, that I simply don't share. I think I've beaten this to death.
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                • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  The only lie (that I remember) is that he said his plane was also hit.

                  <snip>

                  He said his plane was hit (if I remember correctly). To me, that's not even more heroic. In fact, it doesn't even make it a better story.

                  <snip>

                  And I can't read Don's posts. I have his posts set on Ignore.
                  Hahaha.... Please stop while you are already behind. 13 or 14 posts to this topic and you still don't know this story is about chopper that Brian Williams was riding in, and of course the lie(s) Brian has told about that chopper ride. Changing your mind on your "better story" claim, eh? Earlier you said it was a "better story" --> C'mon man, might want to try a little harder to get your story straight.

                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  But, he wanted to make it a better story. And he did.
                  After checking your earlier posts I see you have edited a previous reply to tell me that you are "ignoring" me publicly. Congrats! I feel honored being ignored by a guy that has hijacked and/or derailed so many threads with juvenile drivel and/or meaningless off-topic posts. You have hijacked and/or derailed so many threads you could be in the running for the derailer of the decade prize!

                  I've beaten this to death.
                  Beaten it to death --> yet you still don't know it was his chopper that he said was shot down. Got it. Now back to Brian... Below is a B. Williams quote from 2007.
                  A few years before that, you go back to Iraq, and I looked down the tube of an RPG that had been fired at us and had hit the chopper in front of ours. And I'm so fortunate to be sitting here.
                  Brian must have Steve Austin vision because the people that were there say the chopper that was hit by an RPG was flying 30-60 minutes ahead of his.

                  Cheers

                  -don
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                • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Dennis; You and I disagree on what a major lie is. His story was already heroic. He was already in danger. The only lie (that I remember) is that he said his plane was also hit.

                  He didn't say he saved the plane. He didn't say he won the war. He didn't say that he saved lives.
                  In 2013, Williams marveled at his own bravery, telling Alec Baldwin on WNYC radio that he thought he was going to die when the (imaginary) grenade hit his helo. “I guess I do say to myself and to others — ‘I’ve got this’ — and I don’t know where that unbridled confidence comes from.”

                  He's equating himself with the real heroes. It's stolen valor.

                  I can see that you take this story personally. I do not. Maybe that's another difference.
                  I take it personally in the sense that I believe the news media should be the guardians of truth, not a perpetuator of lies. I take it personally in the sense that he's been stealing valor from my fellow veterans for years. Those who were there, and other combat veterans don't like it, and while I was fortunate enough not to be in combat, I stand by them. Other than that, I don't take it personally.

                  Dennis; It saddens me that your opinion of me has changed over this. My opinion of you has not. Have you noticed that just about every one of my posts here, is a reply to you? I respect very few people's opinion here. Yours is one I do. And no matter what your opinion is of my opinion, that will continue.
                  Don't be saddened, I'm a nobody. And Claude, I still respect your opinion and I still like you. I just don't think the "truth" is as important to you as I had previously thought from reading your posts in the various science threads. That's all, and it's probably my fault.

                  I can't help but wonder, though . . . if you're so willing to excuse this, what other lies are you willing to accept?
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Dennis in bold, me not.

                    In 2013, Williams marveled at his own bravery, telling Alec Baldwin on WNYC radio that he thought he was going to die when the (imaginary) grenade hit his helo. "I guess I do say to myself and to others -- 'I've got this' -- and I don't know where that unbridled confidence comes from."

                    He's equating himself with the real heroes. It's stolen valor.


                    I didn't know. Like I said, I've only heard his apology. If this is true, it changes my opinion. but not completely.

                    I just don't think the "truth" is as important to you as I had previously thought from reading your posts in the various science threads. That's all, and it's probably my fault.

                    Your original assessment was right. Truth is more important to me than anything else. Even love. And that's why I change my mind, when new evidence proves me wrong. I've even done it on the Forum a few times. You could even say that truth and reality are my religion.

                    I can't help but wonder, though . . . if you're so willing to excuse this, what other lies are you willing to accept?

                    What lies am I willing to accept? None. I'm inflexible on that. Not from anyone else, and not from myself.

                    I see it now. You see this as my accepting a lie from Williams. I'm now going to tell you a real response from me, without any mask. and without joking.

                    The only thing I care about is the truth. Not other people, not getting along, not money, truth. No matter what I say, or how I act. That's the core of it.

                    What I don't care about, is if somebody else lies. It doesn't affect me in the least. I don't judge people morally..but not because I'm moral. It's because I don't care enough about them to judge what they do. I don't hold others to standards. Not because I have the standards myself, but because I have no empathy with them. I just don't care how they act.

                    When Williams says something untrue, for example....it means nothing to me, because all humans lie. I didn't accept his lie. I just don't care that he lied. I don't even get offended when people lie to me. Even big lies. Even from people I'm close to.

                    But just because I don't get offended, doesn't mean I believe it, or accept it. I just don't care enough to get upset by it.

                    Even your remark that I may not value the truth, just gets a reaction from me, because it's in error.

                    Remember all the times I say I'm a psychopath? That's not a joke. And not caring how others behave, even when it's directed at me, is part of that. I'm incapable of getting upset because of the way others act.

                    Now, why does your opinion matter? Why are you a little different?
                    One, you have a strong resemblance to a very good friend of mine. A great family man, and a loyal friend. I'm not joking, that's part of it. And you sent me some writing you did, and I gathered a portrait of you from that. And a bird jumped into your hand....you have shown evidence that you are a good man. And so, it seems like you should be treated fairly, by me.

                    And that's that.
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                    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      I didn't know. Like I said, I've only heard his apology. If this is true, it changes my opinion. but not completely.
                      Hahahaha... It appears as if you have ignored almost everything posted to this thread by anyone other than yourself (and Dennis, I guess). In-fact if you would have read my post here...

                      http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9866431

                      ...you would have seen the timeline of his reports and broadcasts that I posted. If you would have read that timeline, and followed the accompanying link, you would have seen the link in that timeline story to the March 2013 Baldwin transcript (full).

                      Here's The Thing: Brian Williams Transcript - WNYC

                      Portions of the Baldwin interview were also included in the Stars And Stripes article that I linked here:

                      http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9865034

                      It's becoming clear that you may prefer to post uninformed opinion instead of educating yourself on a few of the facts and then posting a more informed opinion.

                      Truth is more important to me than anything else. Even love. And that's why I change my mind, when new evidence proves me wrong.
                      Unfortunately, you don't seem to mind posting uniformed opinion instead of doing a tiny bit of fact checking or light research. If you would not ignore the links I and others post, you would actually learn a few the facts.

                      What lies am I willing to accept? None. I'm inflexible on that. Not from anyone else, and not from myself.
                      You had already excused the B. Williams lie(s) as mistaken memories.

                      What I don't care about, is if somebody else lies. It doesn't affect me in the least.
                      Lies by other people can and do affect us in many ways.

                      I don't even get offended when people lie to me. Even big lies. Even from people I'm close to.
                      Seriously? Never offended?

                      Remember all the times I say I'm a psychopath? That's not a joke. And not caring how others behave, even when it's directed at me, is part of that. I'm incapable of getting upset because of the way others act.
                      Wow, so those were serious admissions, eh? I guess that may be a reason why you choose to derail so many threads. Maybe I should feel extra special that you have put me on your ignore list --> since you don't care how others act, and you are incapable of getting upset because of the way others act.

                      Cheers

                      -don
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                    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      In 2013, Williams marveled at his own bravery, telling Alec Baldwin on WNYC radio that he thought he was going to die when the (imaginary) grenade hit his helo. “I guess I do say to myself and to others — ‘I’ve got this’ — and I don’t know where that unbridled confidence comes from.”
                      I copied and pasted that from the story previously linked. Since then I've read the transcript. He did say that, but it appears there was some selective editing by the author, or the transcript I found was selectively edited. The bottom line is, I'm not sure that's an accurate quote.



                      As for the rest of your post, thanks for the explanation. While we're not likely to find a meeting of the minds on this one, I understand your position better now.
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                      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                        He did say that, but it appears there was some selective editing by the author, or the transcript I found was selectively edited. The bottom line is, I'm not that's an accurate quote.
                        Dennis, for sure that is a case of selective editing and a less than accurate portrayal of the interview. Williams never said anything about an RPG in his exchange with Baldwin. At best, it is a case of selective editing and conflation...

                        Here is the full audio from the March 04, 2013 Baldwin interview:

                        Here's The Thing: Brian Williams - WNYC

                        Here is the full transcript:

                        Here's The Thing: Brian Williams Transcript - WNYC

                        Alec Baldwin: I never—I feel the same way. I think one thing that you and I have in common, and that is, it’s a decision you make. It’s like literally to me, it’s always the same image. And that is I’m in a ski chute. I’m in the chute of a ski run of a black diamond ski run; a very, very tough ski run. I say to myself, ‘There’s only one way down.’ I get a sense that you’re the same way, which is that, you know, as much as we’re like, ‘Pinch me, pinch me’, one of the ways we succeeded was we just jumped out of the plane and we pulled the ripcord and took it one step at a time, and we turned around, next thing you know, we’re skating.

                        Brian Williams: Yeah, there’s this ‘I got this’ syndrome. I guess I do say to myself and to others, ‘I’ve got this.’

                        Alec Baldwin: Yes I can.

                        Brian Williams: And I don’t know where that unbridled confidence came from, and I’ve done some ridiculously stupid things under that banner, like being in a helicopter I had no business being in in Iraq, with rounds coming into the airframe, but I -

                        Alec Baldwin: Did you think you would die?

                        Brian Williams: I also—briefly. Sure. There have been probably more than -

                        Alec Baldwin: A handful of those?

                        Brian Williams: Yeah. But and -
                        Cheers

                        -don
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                        I copied and pasted that from the story previously linked. Since then I've read the transcript. He did say that, but it appears there was some selective editing by the author, or the transcript I found was selectively edited. The bottom line is, I'm not that's an accurate quote.
                        It's a feeding frenzy now. He has to be fired. And he's going to be the poster boy for lying, for the next few weeks (unless another story breaks).

                        And to manufacture stories, statements he makes will be taken out of context. He'll be accused of unrelated sins. I wouldn't be surprised if a woman comes forward saying they had an affair. Once the feeding frenzy starts, and it already has, it gains momentum, and then fizzles out...after the bones are picked clean.

                        We may never see him on TV again. The fact that you checked the quote for context, says a lot about you.

                        It was an incredible stupid lie.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          It's a feeding frenzy now. He has to be fired. And he's going to be the poster boy for lying, for the next few weeks (unless another story breaks).

                          And to manufacture stories, statements he makes will be taken out of context. He'll be accused of unrelated sins. I wouldn't be surprised if a woman comes forward saying they had an affair. Once the feeding frenzy starts, and it already has, it gains momentum, and then fizzles out...after the bones are picked clean.

                          We may never see him on TV again. The fact that you checked the quote for context, says a lot about you.

                          It was an incredible stupid lie.

                          It's all academic now, Claude. Don posted this a short time ago, but since you have him blocked you probably haven't seen it: he's been suspended without pay for 6 months.

                          I'd be a little surprised if he was given his old job back after six months, but stranger things have happened, I suppose.

                          By the way, I appreciate the time you took to explain yourself. I didn't mean to pick on you, I hope you don't think I was, but you kept posting comments that I thought deserved a counterpoint from another perspective. There aren't a lot of topics I'd have followed up on as much as this one, but the vets deserve better than being part of the plot of a fairy tale hero.
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                        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          It's a feeding frenzy now. He has to be fired. And he's going to be the poster boy for lying, for the next few weeks (unless another story breaks).
                          I must have missed the headline that Sean Hannity died.
                          And to manufacture stories, statements he makes will be taken out of context. He'll be accused of unrelated sins. I wouldn't be surprised if a woman comes forward saying they had an affair. Once the feeding frenzy starts, and it already has, it gains momentum, and then fizzles out...after the bones are picked clean.
                          I guess it's time to come clean. Brian is my gay lover.
                          We may never see him on TV again. The fact that you checked the quote for context, says a lot about you.
                          This is America. We love to raise them up, tear them down and then be magnanimous in our forgiveness. Everyone gets a second chance in America. Just ask Mike Tyson about that.

                          Cheers. - Frank
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                          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                            Brian Williams has been the nightly news (recorded daily) for my son and his wife for a long time. Their reaction to this outcry? They changed the channel they record - they no longer watch NBC news unless Williams returns.

                            No discussion or opinion - they just like how Williams does the news. If he's not there - forget it. Pretty simple.
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                            Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
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                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  I respect very few people's opinion here.
                  Nice. Maybe that should be in your signature. lol
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            • Profile picture of the author discrat
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              No. But we all lie. I told small lies. I still do. So do you. So does everyone. To me, the Williams case is a relatively small lie. Should he quit? Don't know. Should NBC fire him? Probably. They have an image to uphold.
              But Claude this guy is influencing millions and millions of people every night. There is a HUGE difference.

              And I do believe it was a big lie. Especially to those War Veterans who were actually shot down. That is totally disrespectful and a slap in their faces.

              But I digress.

              Even if it was a small lie it does not matter. Someone in his journalistic position has ethical values that they must abide by and ones that the Public expects them to live up to.

              He didn't in this case

              P.S. All that being said I have ALWAYS liked Williams. I liked his demeanor ,his seemingly unbiased take on the News, and just someone who for me was an Authority on current issues. I will have to rethink my stance on it now.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                And I do believe it was a big lie. Especially to those War Veterans who were actually shot down. That is totally disrespectful and a slap in their faces.
                .
                To me it wasn't a big lie, because it changed the story so little. Nobody's life was ruined. Nobody died, got fired, or even suffered because of the lie.

                But I can see how most people would think that it's an important lie. A lie that matters. But I can only gather that, after reading several similar posts here.

                NBC saying that they are now investigating Williams, is necessary. They have to shift the perception from "Everyone against NBC and Brian Williams" to "We, NBC, are on your side against Williams".

                Are they really investigating Williams? No idea. But they are forced to say that they are. In fact, they are almost forced to find something else, to show that they are really part of the feeding frenzy.

                It really has little to do with Williams now. The process has started, and it has to run its course.

                In fact, Big Frank explained the process quite nicely.

                I always liked watching Williams too. He's smart, very funny, and was brilliant at his job. His fake stare downs with Jon Stewart were brilliant.

                It's a shame.

                ..
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Many war heroes don't like talking about the war...in-fact I have an uncle that was a genuine hero in battle and he very, very, very rarely utters a word about the war he fought in. Brian Williams loves telling war stories, and we are finding out now that some of his stories aren't true.

    Credibility is everything when you are the face of the #1 network news department, the managing editor, and the anchor at the big desk. That's why this is such a big deal. I realize you don't see it, but most of America does.

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned










    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    At first, I thought this was the media over-blowing a person having a faulty memory, but then I started digging; then I dug a little deeper.

    The bottom line for me is that Williams is a professional journalist, and by that one fact alone, he has to put himself at a higher standard when he is reporting the news. If he lied in his personal life, that's one thing, but to lie as a professional journalist and then continue on with that lie blows out any credibility he has as a reporter/ journalist.

    The fact that this happened in the past is irrelevant to me because now I'm wondering, is this the ONLY lie that he's told? I would find that highly improbable. His employer is either going to fire him or reassign him. I don't see him coming back to his previous role.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Hannity found witnesses that dispute much of what williams said about several incidents! Also, it looks like NBC is replacing him.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Brian Williams’ trustworthiness ranking drops a whopping 812 spots...he's in Tiger Woods territory!

    NBC anchor Brian Williams is now ranked the 835th most trustworthy person in the country — down from the 23rd slot just last week — and now on par with Willie Robertson, the star of A&E's reality show series about Louisiana rednecks. Robertson eased into the 815th slot in the survey by the Marketing Arm, a communications company.
    Brian Williams’ trustworthiness ranking drops 812 places

    ○ Brian Williams went from #23 to #835 on the list of most trusted Americans
    ○ He was the list’s top newsman; that spot is now occupied by Robin Roberts
    ○ On the influencer scale, Williams went from #57 to #397, tied with Giselle Bundchen and former Colts coach Tony Dungy
    ○ In terms of general “appeal,” Williams fell more than 1,200 spots; his current contemporaries are Dave Matthews and David Beckham
    Brian Williams’ Trust Ratings Drop Faster Than Anyone Since Tiger Woods | PRNewser

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    NBC suspends Williams for 6 months without pay...

    We have decided today to suspend Brian Williams as Managing Editor and Anchor of NBC Nightly News for six months. The suspension will be without pay and is effective immediately. We let Brian know of our decision earlier today. Lester Holt will continue to substitute Anchor the NBC Nightly News.
    While on Nightly News on Friday, January 30, 2015, Brian misrepresented events which occurred while he was covering the Iraq War in 2003. It then became clear that on other occasions Brian had done the same while telling that story in other venues. This was wrong and completely inappropriate for someone in Brian’s position.

    In addition, we have concerns about comments that occurred outside NBC News while Brian was talking about his experiences in the field.

    As Managing Editor and Anchor of Nightly News, Brian has a responsibility to be truthful and to uphold the high standards of the news division at all times.
    Read the full memo from NBC News President Deborah Turness here:

    NBC News: Brian Williams suspended for 6 months without pay - POLITICO.com

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Character is the key word here.

    Some will disagree and say it's not related but when I read the recent story about him watching his daughter having sex and writing it off to just another day at the office type thing, I lost respect for him and questioned his character. Not respect for him as a public figure, per se, but his position as a father.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Character is the key word here.

      Some will disagree and say it's not related but when I read the recent story about him watching his daughter having sex and writing it off to just another day at the office type thing, I lost respect for him and questioned his character. Not respect for him as a public figure, per se, but his position as a father.

      Mark
      Mark, are you talking about an acting scene or real life? I can understand his statement if it's acting.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
        Acting but to me it's all kind of the same. Just my personal opinion. With all the coverage of it (him watching the scene) across the board, it seems a lot of people thought along the same lines as me.

        Mark

        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Mark, are you talking about an acting scene or real life? I can understand his statement if it's acting.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    A couple of fairly interesting pieces...and I agree with Dylan Byers and the others that think Brian's transgressions are bigger than just the single RPG story.

    Brian Williams probably isn't coming back. Consider the next six months an audition for Lester Holt, the weekend anchor who will now substitute for Williams in his "absence." Meanwhile, the execs at Comcast/NBC will be hard at work considering an alternative replacement if Holt can't sustain the ratings. Possible anchors include both Today show co-hosts Matt Lauer and Savannah Guthrie.
    Williams' transgressions are probably bigger than the Iraq story. When Burke met with Williams in Manhattan on Tuesday, he presented the anchor with "a dossier of Williams’ apparent lies," according to a report from New York's Gabriel Sherman. That "dossier" likely contained more than Williams' single statement about the helicopter and the RPG -- If it were that alone, it's hard to see how NBC News could justify a six-month suspension.
    How to read the Brian Williams news - POLITICO.com

    It sounds like Williams wanted Leno's job, and people at the network were imploring him to "stick to the facts" for quite awhile. It sounds like they are also investigating his expense accounts, and of course many think it will be almost impossible for him to return.

    One can only imagine that Williams was wishing his anchor escape plan had worked out and that he was the host of The Tonight Show right now. According to two NBC insiders, when the network decided to move on from Jay Leno a few years ago, Williams lobbied NBC executives to give him the host’s chair. “Brian wants to be a late-night comedian,” one former colleague explained. “He traded on being Nightly News anchorman-war-reporter to ingratiate himself with Jimmy, Lorne Michaels, and Jon Stewart.”
    As word of Williams’s habit of embellishing spread through the network over the last decade, powerful voices tried to stop him. According to sources, former NBC News president Steve Capus and Tom Brokaw implored Williams to stick to the facts. “A lot of people, including Tom Brokaw, all said ‘let’s be careful here,’” one person with knowledge of the conversations told me.
    This likely won’t be the end of Williams’s troubles. The network announced today that Richard Esposito, the senior producer conducting the fact-checking investigation of Williams's statements, will continue his inquiry. The fact that NBC lawyers are said to be reviewing the list of Williams’s fictions is an ominous sign. Another source told me today that NBC has widened their probe to include Williams’s expense accounts. In the meantime, NBC executives will be pouring over Lester Holt’s ratings data to gauge his strength as a possible full-time replacement.
    Some wonder how he can ever return. "How does he ever sit down with Rand Paul or Chris Christie and say, ‘You said this two years ago, and you said this last week.'" one longtime staffer told me. "How does he do that?”
    Williams Wishes He Were Tonight Show Host -- NYMag

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    A couple of us mentioned H.C. earlier in the thread...

    http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9864445

    If people want to overlook those comments, and her "what difference does it make" comment and/or her performance as Secretary of State then that's on them. I imagine those statements will come up if she runs. I figure someone, somewhere, may also bring up the Rose Law Firm, Vince Foster, the McDougals and Whitewater as well. Heck, somebody might bring up her infamous "vast right-wing conspiracy" comment from 1998.

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Yeah, well HC lost in 08 in large part because she voted for the worst foreign policy decision since Viet Nam, the Iraq War, which was based on some pretty big lies. Jon Stewart mentioned one that DC made. A big difference is BWs lie didn't cause any deaths while DCs lie(s) resulted in a war in which hundreds of thousands died. Just a minor detail to ponder.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    The ratings will probably decline because Brian Williams has driven some of the NBC News viewers away. I figure some of the die hard Brian Williams fans will try to force NBC to bring him back by turning the channel in hopes of tanking ratings while he is gone. And yes, some B. Williams fans will just turn the channel and watch a different anchor. That said, I might start watching more NBC News now that Lester Holt is doing the show.

    NBC News has been taking a lot of hits in recent times.

    ○ The messy Ann Curry Today Show Departure.

    ○ David Gregory fired from Meet The Press.

    ○ Rock Center with Brian Williams cancelled.

    ○ Brian Williams lies cost him $5 million, a 6 month suspension, a lot of embarrassment for himself and NBC, and he may eventually lose his job as the managing editor and/or the lead anchor. And yes, his credibility may never recover to the point where it once was.

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    The good news (?) is, The Onion is hiring.
    Signature
    Hi
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I agree, Tim. It sounds like more self-aggrandizing to me. That wouldn't surprise me at all. Those who use lies to make themselves seem "greater" than their reality is, don't usually stop at one. It's like a drug. You need more, and bigger doses.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      I agree, Tim. It sounds like more self-aggrandizing to me. That wouldn't surprise me at all. Those who use lies to make themselves seem "greater" than their reality is, don't usually stop at one. It's like a drug. You need more, and bigger doses.
      Yep. It shows a disturbing pattern. I don't see how he could return to his job now. These lies certainly aren't up there with the lies that I mentioned earlier, that actually did lead to deaths etc..., but still... Somethings seriously off with this guy.

      Don't require an apology and then an explanation and then a suspension and then what appears to be "more discipline".
      I think the apology and explanation were Williams' decision and the 6 month suspension wasn't, of course. It's a developing story and I think NBC wants to see how the public reacts, which sounds foolish perhaps but is really a prudent thing to do in this case. NBC has a lot to lose and has spent years grooming BW as the face of their news organization.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Yea, this reminds me of when NBC had to let Don Imus go. It is as 41 once remarked...



    ... "it's an appearance problem".
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    The Frog of War Cartoon...

    Cartoon: Brian Williams and the Frog*of*War
    Signature

    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

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    Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

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