'Megadrought' coming to U.S. Southwest, Plains. NO! Not $1 of my tax money! Not 1 drop of my water!

11 years ago

What should have CA up in arms right now is that here they have that drought - and the gov is draining reservoirs. Nestle's owns some and is selling water back to the people after the reservoirs are drained. Water, considering how far over carrying capacity the population is, is going to be a very major issue everywhere within too many years even without the gov/corps playing these kinds of tricks with us.

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lanfear63

11 years ago

I read about this. Unfortunately, the only way to currently fix or at least lessen it is to avoid burning fossil fuels, coal, oil and gas etc and turn to wave, solar and and wind, unless fusion power comes to fruition. So going green will mean a certain raise in taxes to fund such a huge undertaking. Putting this in place will involve much work, time effort and money, not to mention a huge change in the World economy.

The legacy our generation will leave behind if we do not at least try will be mass starvation, due to the inability to grow food and by the end of the century, the inundation of a lot of land by rising sea levels due to the melting pole caps. The end, or at least a nature enforced, huge reduction in our population will probably stop us using these Co2 substances eventually, anyway and don't worry, we will be dead before this starts to take hold.

Our children will be cursing our greed, selfishness, fear of change, and stupidity if we don't act.

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Floyd Fisher

11 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I read about this. Unfortunately, the only way to currently fix or at least lessen it is to avoid burning fossil fuels, coal, oil and gas etc and turn to wave, solar and and wind, unless fusion power comes to fruition. So going green will mean a certain raise in taxes to fund such a huge undertaking. Putting this in place will involve much work, time effort and money, not to mention a huge change in the World economy.

The legacy our generation will leave behind if we do not at least try will be mass starvation, due to the inability to grow food and by the end of the century, the inundation of a lot of land by rising sea levels due to the melting pole caps. The end, or at least a nature enforced, huge reduction in our population will probably stop us using these Co2 substances eventually, anyway and don't worry, we will be dead before this starts to take hold.

Our children will be cursing our greed, selfishness, fear of change, and stupidity if we don't act.

There are other things that can be done....like desalinization of ocean water.

It's not exactly the end of the world.....that area of the US has been having droughts for as long as I can remember....I doubt it's climate change, and it's highly fixable.

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lanfear63

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

There are other things that can be done....like desalinization of ocean water.

It's not exactly the end of the world.....that area of the US has been having droughts for as long as I can remember....I doubt it's climate change, and it's highly fixable.

Desalinization requires machinery and "Electricity" to run it. The dust bowls predicted will last for up to 35 years. Not the few years or possibly up to the ten that we have seen last century. The process that caused them before was natural, not man made.

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Floyd Fisher

11 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Desalinization requires machinery and "Electricity" to run it. The dust bowls predicted will last for up to 35 years. Not the few years or possibly up to the ten that we have seen last century. The process that caused them before was natural, not man made.

Sure does require machinery and electricity.

I'd rather see a massive desalinization project out there to provide water than useless high speed rail......that would be an achievement we could all be proud of.

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Kurt

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

There are other things that can be done....like desalinization of ocean water.

It's not exactly the end of the world.....that area of the US has been having droughts for as long as I can remember....I doubt it's climate change, and it's highly fixable.

Desalinization costs 10X more. This is due to the energy needed to push the water through reverse osmosis filters. And the 10X doesn't include transporting the water to areas that aren't next to the coast line. We also need to consider where to dump the excess salt.

Another option may be to create inland salt "seas" using ocean water, then use solar to evaporate/distill the water. But this is theoretical and would be a massive undertaking with more environmental concerns.

I do believe there will be a time when the added expense will be necessary since people of our generation aren't willing to sacrifice anything for the future generations.

The good news is, there is plenty of ocean water. If we can pump oil across Alaska, we can pump water wherever it's needed, it's only a matter of cost. But why should we change or pay for anything now? The young people can just pay 10X more for water than we do. It's amazing the sense of entitlement people of my generation have.

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

The good news is, there is plenty of ocean water. If we can pump oil across Alaska, we can pump water wherever it's needed, it's only a matter of cost. But why should we change or pay for anything now? The young people can just pay 10X more for water than we do. It's amazing the sense of entitlement people of my generation have.

Well, Water WILL react to extremes of temperature more adversely than oil, so the pipeline analogy is not that great. Even with HOMES, a GOOD home is well insulated, and they suggest keeping things around 55f to help keep things from freezing. Still, some, like the aquaducts in California help to limit the environments effects, but they don't go through Alaska either. And don't most oil strikes provide their own pressure to a degree? Even a lot of water is gravity fed. Look at all the high water towers and aquaducts on hills.

I thought you were older. I have had to pay for bandwidth and most formal secondary education, AND HEALTHCARE, I have gotten. With regard to bandwidth, I have paid close to $1000 to start, and as much as about $8/HOUR for 120Bps! Adjusted for inflation, those values would be FAR higher, and likely close to $2000 and $16 respectively. TODAY, people want unlimited data for FREE and the fastest bandwidth available. They also want free college. HECK, you want to go to a prestigious PRIVATE college, EVEN WHEN FREE IS AVAILABLE? NO PROBLEM! SUE THE PARENTS!

But the problem is that people TODAY(ALL GENERATIONS THAT CURRENTLY EXIST) want to push things to the limit, so the deficit and public debt are sky high and growing. They force all to pay for things claiming that they are SUDDENLY necessary rights. FUNNY, people even laughed at the idea of wanting access, when I was a kid, and charged through the nose. Originally, higher bandwidths came at a HUGE premium, and time was charged. I actually had a customer once that spent many THOUSANDS of dollars, and waited months, JUST to get a "leased line" so they could have the bandwidth they wanted, which I believe was 960Bps, and that didn't even include internet access.

One of my favorite anecdotes is how a place once, after giving all FREE internet, sent me a letter saying they wouldn't even let me PAY for it!

HEY, I only took them at their word! UNLIMITED! They just had no idea that anyone could do that! I had to get the latest updates in Linux and the like SOME WAY!

One of these days, when I next find that letter, I may post it. The company that bought them is STILL offering internet TODAY, but their plans now start at $11.95/month, for DIALUP, at 20% the bandwidth for the $16.95/month dialup service!

Steve

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HeySal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

I do believe there will be a time when the added expense will be necessary since people of our generation aren't willing to sacrifice anything for the future generations.

We have admin that are more interested in their own wallets than earth or human life preservation. They are draining people of every dime they can get and for anything they can get it for already. It's not that people don't care - it's that they can't afford any more. There's massive outcry to stop GMO planting and return to organic farming - and there's more joining the effort every day. Unfortunately - where the gov gets it's money is from the GMO industry. When you're dealing with nutcases that will destroy every ecosystem on earth for their own profit - nobody is willing to fork over the money because what they fork it over for never gets to the issues it's taken out of our pockets for.

When you consider the fact that we might have to wage an actual war against Monsanto and their ilk if politicians refuse to stop them, and start actively burning their GMO fields and orchards to save our asses, trying to get more funds going for other projects is a pretty moot point.

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Floyd Fisher

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Desalinization costs 10X more. This is due to the energy needed to push the water through reverse osmosis filters. And the 10X doesn't include transporting the water to areas that aren't next to the coast line. We also need to consider where to dump the excess salt.

Another option may be to create inland salt "seas" using ocean water, then use solar to evaporate/distill the water. But this is theoretical and would be a massive undertaking with more environmental concerns.

I do believe there will be a time when the added expense will be necessary since people of our generation aren't willing to sacrifice anything for the future generations.

The good news is, there is plenty of ocean water. If we can pump oil across Alaska, we can pump water wherever it's needed, it's only a matter of cost. But why should we change or pay for anything now? The young people can just pay 10X more for water than we do. It's amazing the sense of entitlement people of my generation have.

Kurt, I know where you want to go with this, so let's get something out on the table.

Even if we could reduce CO2 output by 50%, do you realize that within 30 years, it's not going to mean a damned thing? Do you know why this is?

Now, what are you going to do about that?

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ThomM

11 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I read about this. Unfortunately, the only way to currently fix or at least lessen it is to avoid burning fossil fuels, coal, oil and gas etc and turn to wave, solar and and wind, unless fusion power comes to fruition. So going green will mean a certain raise in taxes to fund such a huge undertaking. Putting this in place will involve much work, time effort and money, not to mention a huge change in the World economy.

The legacy our generation will leave behind if we do not at least try will be mass starvation, due to the inability to grow food and by the end of the century, the inundation of a lot of land by rising sea levels due to the melting pole caps. The end, or at least a nature enforced, huge reduction in our population will probably stop us using these Co2 substances eventually, anyway and don't worry, we will be dead before this starts to take hold.

Our children will be cursing our greed, selfishness, fear of change, and stupidity if we don't act.

Actually (and you knew this was coming) it is more important and have a bitter effect if we get away from commercial farming and switched to organic. For one thing commercial farming requires much more irrigation and much of the water used is carried away in run off, loaded with chemicals. Organic farming uses less water and is held in the soil where it can cycle back into the atmosphere.

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lanfear63

11 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Actually (and you knew this was coming) it is more important and have a bitter effect if we get away from commercial farming and switched to organic. For one thing commercial farming requires much more irrigation and much of the water used is carried away in run off, loaded with chemicals. Organic farming uses less water and is held in the soil where it can cycle back into the atmosphere.

Of course I agree with you Thom, considering what we are faced with, anything and everything should be done to lessen the effects.

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DJL

11 years ago

1. Climate models are notoriously poor at accurately predicting anything, except that the modelers need more money.
2. What has posterity ever done for me?

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Kurt

11 years ago

Another note: This issue isn't just about drinking and farm water. Running water in the form of creeks and rivers is essential to many ecosystems. Without rain and snowfall feeding the ecosystems, moving soil, organic matter and minerals, expect more Saltons.

Salton Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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ThomM

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Another note: This issue isn't just about drinking and farm water. Running water in the form of creeks and rivers is essential to many ecosystems. Without rain and snowfall feeding the ecosystems, moving soil, organic matter and minerals, expect more Saltons.

Salton Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When commercial farming uses around 70% of the worlds fresh water it does kind of make it about that. In fact the intensive use of chemical fertilizers and pesticides leads to salinization of the soils and of the run off from irrigation or rain.

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Kurt

11 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

When commercial farming uses around 70% of the worlds fresh water it does kind of make it about that. In fact the intensive use of chemical fertilizers and pesticides leads to salinization of the soils and of the run off from irrigation or rain.

Am I issing something? I never said it wasn't about farming. I said it isn't just about farming. It's about things in addition to farming, including pollution, global warming, nature, transfer and movement of minerals and organic material which is essential for a healthy ecosystem, outdoor recreation and more.

While faming may account for 70% of fresh water "usage", not all fresh water is used. And some water is "used" more than once. I believe that every drop of the Colorado River is used by the US 3 times before it reaches Mexico. IIFC, potable fresh water makes up something like 2% of the World's water supply.

Maybe the biggest abuser of fresh water is golf. This is on a per acre basis, not over-all impact. Golf courses use far more water and fertilizer per acre than farming does. But because the wealthy and powerful play golf, I doubt there will be anything done about it.

Originally Posted by Kurt

Another note: This issue isn't just about drinking and farm water. Running water in the form of creeks and rivers is essential to many ecosystems. Without rain and snowfall feeding the ecosystems, moving soil, organic matter and minerals, expect more Saltons.

Salton Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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ThomM

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Am I issing something? I never said it wasn't about farming. I said it isn't just about farming. It's about things in addition to farming, including pollution, global warming, nature, transfer and movement of minerals and organic material which is essential for a healthy ecosystem, outdoor recreation and more.

While faming may account for 70% of fresh water "usage", not all fresh water is used. And some water is "used" more than once. I believe that every drop of the Colorado River is used by the US 3 times before it reaches Mexico. IIFC, potable fresh water makes up something like 2% of the World's water supply.

Maybe the biggest abuser of fresh water is golf. This is on a per acre basis, not over-all impact. Golf courses use far more water and fertilizer per acre than farming does. But because the wealthy and powerful play golf, I doubt there will be anything done about it.

No you're not issing something (except for the m).
The point I was making is farming is one of the major contributors to all those other problems you mentioned. In just New England we have over 4 million acres of farm land. In contrast there is just over 1.5 million acres of golf course in the whole country. Also every course superintendent I know are constantly going for more training and installing practices that use less water and chemicals. One example is how and when they aerate the fairways and greens, the thatch layer is constantly being monitored so that aeration is done at the proper time and way.
I know farmers do also, but it is extremely easier to do with golf courses simply because of what you are growing and how it's grown. Also farm subsidies tend to go to the biggest polluters allowing then to fertilize more and irrigated more as needed.
If we fixing the farming issues so that the farms worked with nature and used nature in a positive way the other issues you mentioned wouldn't have a significant impact on the environment like they do now.

The Rodale Institute supports its claims by explaining that if sequestration rates attained by the cases cited inside the white paper were achieved on crop and pastureland across the globe, regenerative agriculture could sequester more than our current annual carbon dioxide emissions. Even if modest assumptions about soil's carbon sequestration potential are made, regenerative agriculture can easily keep annual emissions to within the desirable range necessary if we are to have a good chance of limiting warming to 1.5°C by 2020.
How Organic Farming Can Reverse Climate Change » EcoWatch

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Kurt

11 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

No you're not issing something (except for the m).
The point I was making is farming is one of the major contributors to all those other problems you mentioned. In just New England we have over 4 million acres of farm land. In contrast there is just over 1.5 million acres of golf course in the whole country. Also every course superintendent I know are constantly going for more training and installing practices that use less water and chemicals. One example is how and when they aerate the fairways and greens, the thatch layer is constantly being monitored so that aeration is done at the proper time and way.
I know farmers do also, but it is extremely easier to do with golf courses simply because of what you are growing and how it's grown. Also farm subsidies tend to go to the biggest polluters allowing then to fertilize more and irrigated more as needed.
If we fixing the farming issues so that the farms worked with nature and used nature in a positive way the other issues you mentioned wouldn't have a significant impact on the environment like they do now.

Farming has nothing to do with the ecosystem where I live, which is upstream from any farm land. But water shed and snow run off has a major impact.

As far as golf courses, I clearly posted that the problem was on a per acre basis and not on the whole. And the amount of water and fertilizer used PER ACRE is far higher than is used for farming. Your examples don't prove or disprove the actual numbers.

And because farming has problems, in no way means golf doesn't cause problems that need to be dealt with.

Also, farming is needed. Golf is a luxury.

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ThomM

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Farming has nothing to do with the ecosystem where I live, which is upstream from any farm land. But water shed and snow run off has a major impact.

As far as golf courses, I clearly posted that the problem was on a per acre basis and not on the whole. And the amount of water and fertilizer used PER ACRE is far higher than is used for farming. Your examples don't prove or disprove the actual numbers.

And because farming has problems, in no way means golf doesn't cause problems that need to be dealt with.

Also, farming is needed. Golf is a luxury.

Kurt farming has everything to do with the ecosystems pretty much everywhere. Maybe on a per acre basis some golf courses use more chemicals and water then commercial farms, but again there are less acres in golf courses in the whole country then there are acres of farmland in just New England. Also more land is being put into farming then golf courses here and in the whole world.
Yes farming is needed, but commercial farming is not. To excuse the damage that is being done to the planet by commercial farming because farming is needed is worse then saying we need to drill more oil wells or allow fracking everywhere because fossil fuels are needed.
Commercial farming is the biggest problem facing our planet today. Current estimates say we only have about 60 years of topsoil left and the biggest culprit is commercial farming.
Here's a hard number to wrap your head around. Currently in the U.S. we lose almost 3 tons of topsoil a year, per acre.

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Karen Blundell

11 years ago

they should come with trucks to southern Ontario, Canada - take away all our massive piles of snow, melt the snow, and treat the water so that it's drinkable.
Because once this all melts, we will all be flooded here.
I know that is a short term solution - and I'm not trying to make light of a serious situation - it's just the contrasts in weather are so severe, it's astonishing.

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ThomM

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

they should come with trucks to southern Ontario, Canada - take away all our massive piles of snow, melt the snow, and treat the water so that it's drinkable.
Because once this all melts, we will all be flooded here.
I know that is a short term solution - and I'm not trying to make light of a serious situation - it's just the contrasts in weather are so severe, it's astonishing.

Looks like my house here in New York

We got another foot dumped on us last night. At least the temps are around 0F. and the wind is only blowing around 20mph,lol.

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Karen Blundell

11 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Looks like my house here in New York

We got another foot dumped on us last night. At least the temps are around 0F. and the wind is only blowing around 20mph,lol.

we are at -6F but with the windchill it feels like -22F -
I stayed in today - but I imagine I will venture out tomorrow for a short walk - I get cabin fever if I don't get outside

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ThomM

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

we are at -6F but with the windchill it feels like -22F -
I stayed in today - but I imagine I will venture out tomorrow for a short walk - I get cabin fever if I don't get outside

I was out for a while today. Did some shoveling and went to the store. I'm use to working outside in weather like this and it really doesn't bother me.

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TimPhelan 11 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Looks like my house here in New York We got another foot dumped on us last night. At least the temps are around 0F. and the wind is only blowing around 20mph,lol.

I think it got down into the 60s here. Almost had to put long pants on.
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- ThomM 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TimPhelan
  
  I think it got down into the 60s here. Almost had to put long pants on.
  
  You're as bad as my friend in Texas who keeps posting pictures of himself setting in a lawn chair with his shirt off
  I'm at -6 heading towards -13 with 20mph winds
  
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Floyd Fisher 11 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Looks like my house here in New York We got another foot dumped on us last night. At least the temps are around 0F. and the wind is only blowing around 20mph,lol.

Last night around midnight, I walked from the downtown Syracuse bus terminal to my home....several miles in negative temperatures. I admit I stopped at a Sunoco station to warm up, but that was about 4 blocks from my house.

I felt so lucky to have gotten to the Sunoco, I immediately purchased a Mega Millions lottery ticket.....luck like that needs a streak.
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tagiscom

11 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Desalinization requires machinery and "Electricity" to run it. The dust bowls predicted will last for up to 35 years. Not the few years or possibly up to the ten that we have seen last century. The process that caused them before was natural, not man made.

Yes, we paid a few billion for our one, apparently the biggest in the World, and eventhough currently a pink elephant it can supply 30% of our water needs!

Megadrought, yeah, right, l thought that most of us would be dead by 2100, according to crackpot speculation!

In the meantime zero energy systems are ignored, why, oil!

Either the elite know this is a crock, so will continue to use oil for energy, or coal, or they know it is real, and will wait til we either run out or all hell will break loose!

Even a wealthy sociopath knows that if they push this to the wall, their mansion near the beach will get overrun by the unemployed, and destitute masses, just as easily as everyone elses!

I tend to think that they aren't that stupid, and MMGW is a money grab more than anything else!

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Kurt

11 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Yes, we paid a few billion for our one, apparently the biggest in the World, and eventhough currently a pink elephant it can supply 30% of our water needs!

Megadrought, yeah, right, l thought that most of us would be dead by 2100, according to crackpot speculation!

In the meantime zero energy systems are ignored, why, oil!

Either the elite know this is a crock, so will continue to use oil for energy, or coal, or they know it is real, and will wait til we either run out or all hell will break loose!

Even a wealthy sociopath knows that if they push this to the wall, their mansion near the beach will get overrun by the unemployed, and destitute masses, just as easily as everyone elses!

I tend to think that they aren't that stupid, and MMGW is a money grab more than anything else!

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whateverpedia

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

The Following 7 Users Say Thank You For This Useful Post:
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You forgot to add Old King Coal and Fossil Fools to that list.

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Send trucks to NE states. Remove snow. Store for megadrought. Problem solved... and stop fracking.

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AnniePot 11 years ago

Project HAARP: Is The US Controlling The Weather?...
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HeySal

11 years ago

193 countries just made ego-egineering illegal because it's been recognized as being a threat to natural weather. Not the US, though. You can still get permits ($$) for that. Out here they spray really hard sometimes. Idaho and UT sued Oregon because they were cloud seeding over the Cascades so the rain would drop over the desert area east of the mountains and it put ID and UT in drought. Well, their at it again.

We don't need more taxes - we need a government that recognizes when they have to just stop allowing environmentally disastrous activities to go on just because they're profitable. When the majority of the world illegalizes something because of the danger - it's time to look at that instead of how much money they can get from it. If the EPA was actually acting for the environment instead of as a program for federal land grab and revenue funding machine, that would be real kewl.

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SteveJohnson

11 years ago

We just have to make sure and not do what the people did early on when they turned the Sahara from a savannah into a desert.

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TLTheLiberator 11 years ago

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

We just have to make sure and not do what the people did early on when they turned the Sahara from a savannah into a desert.

I doubt that is what happened.
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yukon

Banned 11 years ago

LMAO, what is Gov going to do about it?

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ThomM 11 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

LMAO, what is Gov going to do about it?

Subsidize the type of farming that contributes the most to it.
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Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
Getting old ain't for sissy's
As you are I was, as I am you will be
You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.
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- yukon Banned 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ThomM
  
  Subsidize the type of farming that contributes the most to it.
  
  ...and then do a rain dance.
  
  The Cult - Rain - YouTube
  
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  Dennis Gaskill 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by yukon
  
  ...and then do a rain dance
  
  Did someone mention rain?
  
  Janiva Magness - Make It Rain (Feat. Dave...
  
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  Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.
  
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  ThomM 11 years ago
  
  A song for rain from Northern Spain.
  
  EL PONT D'ARCALÃS-PregÃ*ria per fer ploure -...
  
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  Signature
  
  Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
  Getting old ain't for sissy's
  As you are I was, as I am you will be
  You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.
  
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  HeySal 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by yukon
  
  ...and then do a rain dance.
  
  I used to teach dance. If it would help, if people send me the funding to go to drought stricken areas and dance, I'll take that job.
  
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  Sal
  When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
  Beyond the Path
  
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  Joe Mobley 11 years ago
  
  Dancing for money...
  
  Nevermind.
  
  Joe Mobley
  
  Originally Posted by HeySal
  
  I used to teach dance. If it would help, if people send me the funding to go to drought stricken areas and dance, I'll take that job.
  
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  .
  Follow Me on Twitter: @daVinciJoe
  
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'Megadrought' coming to U.S. Southwest, Plains. NO! Not $1 of my tax money! Not 1 drop of my water!

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