What Happened to WF During My Six-Month Vacation?

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So I've been away from the forum for a while, taking a much deserved break. I've only recently begun revisiting and noticed that there are very often fewer than 3000 members online. There used to be 5000+ online routinely.

I know there have been lots of rule changes but has something else occurred to kill off so much traffic?
#happened #sixmonth #vacation
  • Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

    So I've been away from the forum for a while, taking a much deserved break. I've only recently begun revisiting and noticed that there are very often fewer than 3000 members online. There used to be 5000+ online routinely.

    I know there have been lots of rule changes but has something else occurred to kill off so much traffic?
    The internet marketers no longer view forum posting as a means of generating targeted traffic to their websites, and therefore now spend less time doing forum posting and spend more time online posting on social media sites to interact with members of their niche markets
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Originally Posted by Internet Trillionaire View Post

      The internet marketers no longer view forum posting as a means of generating targeted traffic to their websites, and therefore now spend less time doing forum posting and spend more time online posting on social media sites to interact with members of their niche markets
      Silly nonsense.
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      • Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        Silly nonsense.
        Really?

        So how else would you explain the decline in active traffic on this site in the three to six months his been gone?
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        • Profile picture of the author salegurus
          Originally Posted by Internet Trillionaire View Post

          Really?

          So how else would you explain the decline in active traffic on this site in the three to six months his been gone?
          LOL, nothing to do with traffic....
          It's the rubbish being posted day in and day out, mostly by clueless wannabes and lazy newbies...
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          • Profile picture of the author kk075
            Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

            LOL, nothing to do with traffic....
            It's the rubbish being posted day in and day out, mostly by clueless wannabes and lazy newbies...
            LOL, way to go tinkle on someone else's Corn Flakes. The laugh made Pepsi come out my nose as I was reading it!
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Originally Posted by Internet Trillionaire View Post

          Really?

          So how else would you explain the decline in active traffic on this site in the three to six months his been gone?
          Zero active moderation on the forums, that's the problem.

          Real example, look at all the crap currently on the first page of the SEO sub-forum, blatant spam, self promotion, etc...

          Mods only look at complaints sent to the mod forum from forum members, they don't do any real modding on their own which wasn't the case a year ago.

          People don't want to look at spam digging through it to find decent forum threads, they'll bail from a site/forum If they have to work.

          Niche forums in general are alive & well in 2015.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jeff Lenney
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            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            Zero active moderation on the forums, that's the problem.

            Real example, look at all the crap currently on the first page of the SEO sub-forum, blatant spam, self promotion, etc...

            Mods only look at complaints sent to the mod forum from forum members, they don't do any real modding on their own which wasn't the case a year ago.

            People don't want to look at spam digging through it to find decent forum threads, they'll bail from a site/forum If they have to work.

            Niche forums in general are alive & well in 2015.
            I love this post!

            http://www.warriorforum.com/search-e...goes-iran.html

            It's an embedded video "NCAA Basketball Championship 2015 Live Stream"

            Been there 4 hours already... lol

            Edit: 8 hours and spam post STILL there!
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            • Profile picture of the author goindeep
              Originally Posted by Jeff Lenney View Post

              I love this post!

              http://www.warriorforum.com/search-e...goes-iran.html

              It's an embedded video "NCAA Basketball Championship 2015 Live Stream"

              Been there 4 hours already... lol

              Edit: 8 hours and spam post STILL there!
              Haha that's because it was the long weekend here in Australia where the staff are located. I have noticed that on weekends moderating takes longer so either they have no staff or limited staff on the weekends.
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          • Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            Zero active moderation on the forums, that's the problem.

            Real example, look at all the crap currently on the first page of the SEO sub-forum, blatant spam, self promotion, etc...

            Mods only look at complaints sent to the mod forum from forum members, they don't do any real modding on their own which wasn't the case a year ago.

            People don't want to look at spam digging through it to find decent forum threads, they'll bail from a site/forum If they have to work.

            Niche forums in general are alive & well in 2015.
            Ok I see your point in saying it's not the traffic, but the spam is driving the quality buyer traffic away.

            I personally joined this forum a few years ago to learn from experienced marketers and find out what exactly they did to make money online using this forum.

            But on the main page, all you see is threads by newbies asking the obvious noob question of how to make $100, $500, $2,000, $10,000 online per day/week/month etc.

            Yes there are some experienced Internet Markers answering those noobs with valuable advice in those threads, but they grow tired of having to reply the same post they just gave on a previous thread asking the exact same quwstion with just a different desired daily income.
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  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    Most of the best posters (the ones that actually knew what they were talking about) are not contributing much if anything anymore. There are a few great members still jumping in every now and then but it is nothing like it used to be.
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    • Profile picture of the author goindeep
      Originally Posted by Janice Sperry View Post

      Most of the best posters (the ones that actually knew what they were talking about) are not contributing much if anything anymore. There are a few great members still jumping in every now and then but it is nothing like it used to be.
      Oh you mean the scam artists?
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    Wow. That's a shame. I mean, I've been on hiatus for less than 6 months. So much appears to have changed in such a short period of time....
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          • Profile picture of the author NevinC
            Originally Posted by JosephC View Post

            The quality of the forum has really taken a hit since many of the experienced members left and although I still come by more of my time is spent elsewhere. Many marketers do not see the Warrior Forum as a necessity anymore.
            Thanks for the reply. Any idea where all the experienced members left to?
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            • Profile picture of the author JosephC
              Originally Posted by NevinC View Post

              Thanks for the reply. Any idea where all the experienced members left to?
              They all just went to focus on their businesses I guess. Nothing replaced the warrior forum if thats what your wondering.
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        • Profile picture of the author agmccall
          Originally Posted by Jeff Lenney View Post

          Why was she banned? I got a ban for a month for "Being rude to other members"... (checked my recent post history after I got back on, and could not see why - I was actually trying to be NICER - but now I don't care, this place is going down hill fast)
          I have 3 infractions, all expired, for being rude to people. Kinda makes you feel good doesn't it?

          AL
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  • Profile picture of the author kk075
    Welcome back! I started here within the past six month so we haven't crossed paths yet, but it seems like there are only a few dozen who share genuinely great advice. I'm not sure how it was before, but there's only so many times people can answer, "Noob Help Needed- Tell Me How to Get Rich with IM" without pulling your hair out.
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  • Profile picture of the author NeedBucksNow
    Alot of the newbies probably quit when they found out it actually takes time to make money but there are always new people starting everyday
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    • Profile picture of the author goindeep
      Originally Posted by NeedBucksNow View Post

      Alot of the newbies probably quit when they found out it actually takes time to make money but there are always new people starting everyday
      That's interesting coming from a guy whos sig says "TOP FREE WAYS TO EARN MIRACLE COMMISSIONS ONLINE"
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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
    Read through the Main Forum, and even some of the sub forums and you'll soon get your answer...
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  • Profile picture of the author TygraOlympia
    I believe that there are less spammers on this forum now than there was before. That's where the loss of 2k daily visitors went. They weren't able to make money scamming users here anymore and fled.
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    • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
      Originally Posted by TygraOlympia View Post

      I believe that there are less spammers on this forum now than there was before. That's where the loss of 2k daily visitors went. They weren't able to make money scamming users here anymore and fled.
      I really do HOPE this is the case but, unfortunately, I'm not sure it is.
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    • Profile picture of the author agmccall
      Originally Posted by TygraOlympia View Post

      I believe that there are less spammers on this forum now than there was before. That's where the loss of 2k daily visitors went. They weren't able to make money scamming users here anymore and fled.
      You can't be serious.....The reason people are leaving is because most of the posts are now signature promotions, post count raisers, or just basic spam.

      al
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by TygraOlympia View Post

      I believe that there are less spammers on this forum now than there was before. That's where the loss of 2k daily visitors went. They weren't able to make money scamming users here anymore and fled.
      Coming from the guy with

      PR 8+ 90+ DA Sites, 1000 Words at $47/Link! PM ME
      in his signature, I would have thought you would have been gone too then. Scamming users is clearly alive and well.
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    How long ago was it that Alan sold the site to Freelancer? Was that more or less than six months ago? Time flies for me lately and I lose track. Maybe that is what you see as different.
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    Actually, it was about 6 months ago - October-Novemberish? That's what I'm trying to figure out - was it the new ownership, new rules, something else?

    The site looks largely dead compared to where it was 6 months ago.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      Actually, it was about 6 months ago - October-Novemberish? That's what I'm trying to figure out - was it the new ownership, new rules, something else?

      The site looks largely dead compared to where it was 6 months ago.
      It's not any one thing. It's a combination of a lot of things.

      1. Trying to force people into using Warrior Payments. All the Warrior Plus and JVZoo affiliate traffic dried up after that. Plus a lot of Warriors didn't want to use War Pay and many of the big advertisers have left for greener pastures.

      2. Growth Hacking. Mindless recruitment of members from just anywhere with no consideration as to whether they would be an asset to the forum. Results: Over 100,000 new members - a lot of them spammers and a lot posting the pure nonsense you see in the upstairs forums. There are now more visitors from India than the US.

      3. All the changes to the forum have resulted in people no longer really being able to make a decent income here, so they left or some of them have just migrated to the Off Topic forum just to chit chat and argue.

      There's more, but I consider those to be major influences.

      It's actually been a year since Freelancer bought it:

      Warrior Forum Alexa Stats


      Mar 16, 2014
      Global Rank 215

      When Freelancer took over
      April 12 2014 Global Rank 250
      July 17, 2014 268


      11/10/2014
      Global Rank 368
      Rank India 298
      Rank in US 1,096
      Visitors by Country
      India 19.9%
      US 16.7%

      Search Visits 16.7%

      11/13/2014
      Global Rank 385
      Rank India 315
      Rank in US 1,117
      Visitors by Country
      India
      US

      Search visits 16.8%

      11/17/2014
      Global rank 407
      Rank India 328
      Rank in US 1,120
      Visitors by Country
      India 19.7%
      US 17%

      Search visits 16.9%

      11/24/2014
      Global rank 443
      Rank India 336
      Rank in US 1,137
      Visitors by Country
      India 19.8%
      US 16.9%
      Search visits 17%


      11/28/2014
      Global rank 470
      Rank India 330
      Rank in US 1,174
      Visitors by Country
      India 20.0%
      US 16.5%

      Search visits 16.9%

      12/18/2014
      Global rank 586
      Rank India 323
      Rank in US 1,232
      Visitors by Country
      India 20.4%
      US 16.4%
      Search visits 17.1%

      1/1/2015
      Global rank 702
      Rank India 329
      Rank in US 1,241
      Visitors by Country
      India 21.2%
      US 16.2%
      Search visits 17.0%

      1/9/2015
      Global rank 758
      Rank India 320
      Rank in US 1,201
      Visitors by Country
      India 21.3%
      US 16.1%
      Search visits 16.9%

      1/17/2015
      Global rank 783
      Rank India 335
      Rank in US 1,196
      Visitors by Country
      India 21.4%
      US 16.4%
      Search visits 16.8%

      1/23/2015
      Global rank 791
      Rank India 345
      Rank in US 1,194
      Visitors by Country
      India 21.2%
      US 16.7%
      Search visits 16.8%

      1/29/2015
      Global rank 797
      Rank India 360
      Rank in US 1,212
      Visitors by Country
      India 21.2%
      US 17.0%
      Search visits 16.7%

      2/03/2015
      Global rank 804
      Rank India 366
      Rank in US 1,260
      Visitors by Country
      India 21.5%
      US 16.7%
      Search visits 16.8%

      2/11/2015
      Global rank 819
      Rank India 364
      Rank in US 1,309
      Visitors by Country
      India 22.0%
      US 16.8%
      Search visits 16.8%

      2/22/2015
      Global rank 837
      Rank India 375
      Rank in US 1,335
      Visitors by Country
      India 22.4%
      US 16.5%
      Search visits 17.0%

      3/3/2015
      Global rank 838
      Rank India 381
      Rank in US 1,363
      Visitors by Country
      India 22.8%
      US 16.6%
      Search visits 17.2%

      3/18/2015
      Global rank 838
      Rank India 373
      Rank in US 1,332
      Visitors by Country
      India 23.1%
      US 16.7%
      Search visits 17.7%
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      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        That's an ugly drop in traffic. Worse given the free publicity received from the sale, upgrades which made the forum stable without timing out, AMAs to the community, tie-ins with the Freelancer site, additional subforums, Warrior Payments, and all the emails the forum has been pumping out promoting WSOs.

        .
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  • Profile picture of the author Gambino
    Regular contributors of useful information we're run off, left, or quit posting regularly. Spam has, in my opinion, increased since new ownership took over. Most new threads are questions that can be answered by searching the forum, but they get asked over and over.. Advice is given, but usually isn't taken. For those who are successful online, this forum offers very little now-a-days.. in my opinion, of course.
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    • Profile picture of the author salegurus
      Originally Posted by Gambino View Post

      Regular contributors of useful information we're run off, left, or quit posting regularly. Spam has, in my opinion, increased since new ownership took over. Most new threads are questions that can be answered by searching the forum, but they get asked over and over.. Advice is given, but usually isn't taken. For those who are successful online, this forum offers very little now-a-days.. in my opinion, of course.
      Summed up quite well...
      This has also been discussed in the OT if you are interested.....
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Now you see how things can decline when you take unexpected and long
    vacations so I hope that you learned your lesson.

    -Ray Edwards
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  • As for my observations, even though I haven't really paid much attention to traffic stats, I did notice however that with the purchase of WF, came an extra large influx of less experienced people asking very basic start up questions. Sometimes in more than one thread, and the next day the same questions again.

    I then watch those same folks answering other newcomers questions, resulting in a blind leading the blind scenario.

    Maybe there is only so much that a veteran Warrior could ingest, before deciding that the main forum thread is now becoming somewhat of dud, and becomes a time waster having to sort through tons of basic questions that he/she may not want to answer for the umpteenth time.

    This may then explain some of what Janice touched upon earlier....

    Most of the best posters (the ones that actually knew what they were talking about) are not contributing much if anything anymore. There are a few great members still jumping in every now and then but it is nothing like it used to be.
    So how do we fix this?

    Maybe a separation of the "main internet discussion forum" into:

    "beginner", "intermediate", and "advanced"?

    This might makes things more interesting for those on a particular experience level,
    and may cause some return traffic from those who left for one reason or the other.

    I certainly would enjoy a forum where beginners might discuss how to create an eBook cover or make their first sale online,

    and intermediates might discuss how turn turn their steady $2000 a month income into $5000 - $10000,

    and where advanced marketers might discuss taking it to the next level, and talk about earning their first, or next million, in a more serious realistic manner.

    Just a thought....
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    • Profile picture of the author goindeep
      Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

      As for my observations, even though I haven't really paid much attention to traffic stats, I did notice however that with the purchase of WF, came an extra large influx of less experienced people asking very basic start up questions. Sometimes in more than one thread, and the next day the same questions again.

      I then watch those same folks answering other newcomers questions, resulting in a blind leading the blind scenario.

      Maybe there is only so much that a veteran Warrior could ingest, before deciding that the main forum thread is now becoming somewhat of dud, and becomes a time waster having to sort through tons of basic questions that he/she may not want to answer for the umpteenth time.

      This may then explain some of what Janice touched upon earlier....

      So how do we fix this?

      Maybe a separation of the "main internet discussion forum" into:

      "beginner", "intermediate", and "advanced"?

      This might makes things more interesting for those on a particular experience level,
      and may cause some return traffic from those who left for one reason or the other.

      I certainly would enjoy a forum where beginners might discuss how to create an eBook cover or make their first sale online,

      and intermediates might discuss how turn turn their steady $2000 a month income into $5000 - $10000,

      and where advanced marketers might discuss taking it to the next level, and talk about earning their first, or next million, in a more serious realistic manner.

      Just a thought....
      Sorry to crush your dreams.

      "When the rate of change outside exceeds the rate of change on the inside, the end is near" Jack Welsh.

      The Internet has evolved 10x over and WF has gone backwards.

      Bitcoin, 3D printing, Cannabis, Internet of things, Big data, Hashtags, Wearables, Drones, Cloud computing, Instant payment platforms, Augmented reality and all the WF can discuss is SEO, selling info products and affiliate marketing. It is literally the laughing stock at the bottom of the Internet Barrel.

      An industry that relies almost solely on selling others information on how they too can sell others information is destined to die a fast.
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      • Profile picture of the author Devilfish168
        think maybe too much " useless WSO " etc



        before I joined last time some WSOs are amazing !
        really out of the box no complicated things etc

        I noticed most WSOs now always talk the same stuffs they just twist and turn the words " look new ".
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        • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Devilfish168 View Post

          think maybe too much " useless WSO " etc



          before I joined last time some WSOs are amazing !
          really out of the box no complicated things etc

          I noticed most WSOs now always talk the same stuffs they just twist and turn the words " look new ".
          I can remember when this was an English speaking forum.
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          • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

            I can remember when this was an English speaking forum.
            Back when a $1 wasn't a 1$...

            And there you have your answer - Allen left and most of the experienced members went with him. Freelancer came and brought their third-world slave force with them.

            No mystery involved.
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            • Profile picture of the author webound
              You ain't kidding there.
              I took a look at my visitor log on one of my sites and noticed that when a certain moderator visited my site they were coming from Kuwait. I believe that to be Afganistan. Interesting but also concerning at the same time.

              Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

              Back when a $1 wasn't a 1$...

              And there you have your answer - Allen left and most of the experienced members went with him. Freelancer came and brought their third-world slave force with them.

              No mystery involved.
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    • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
      Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

      As for my observations, even though I haven't really paid much attention to traffic stats, I did notice however that with the purchase of WF, came an extra large influx of less experienced people asking very basic start up questions. Sometimes in more than one thread, and the next day the same questions again.

      I then watch those same folks answering other newcomers questions, resulting in a blind leading the blind scenario.

      Maybe there is only so much that a veteran Warrior could ingest, before deciding that the main forum thread is now becoming somewhat of dud, and becomes a time waster having to sort through tons of basic questions that he/she may not want to answer for the umpteenth time.

      This may then explain some of what Janice touched upon earlier....

      So how do we fix this?

      Maybe a separation of the "main internet discussion forum" into:

      "beginner", "intermediate", and "advanced"?

      This might makes things more interesting for those on a particular experience level,
      and may cause some return traffic from those who left for one reason or the other.

      I certainly would enjoy a forum where beginners might discuss how to create an eBook cover or make their first sale online,

      and intermediates might discuss how turn turn their steady $2000 a month income into $5000 - $10000,

      and where advanced marketers might discuss taking it to the next level, and talk about earning their first, or next million, in a more serious realistic manner.

      Just a thought....
      You have the makings of a good idea in my opinion. The only drawback is the intermediate and advanced section would be as dead as a door-nail without the newbies. As much as most wouldn't like to admit they ask the bulk of the questions that keep the W.F as alive as it is now.

      Intermediates and advanced seldom ask questions for the most part ( they answer them). It would make it 10 times more interesting to me if they did, But they just don't. Count the amount of threads that's started, it's mostly noobs and very few intermediates and advanced. Result? Like many dead or on life support forums you have the same threads for days, weeks or even months because no one ask any questions.

      Most of the intermediates and advanced would just be waiting around to answer, criticize, or critique questions or topics introduced for the most part. Making a section exclusive to them (or us) would be tumble-weed country.

      Sorry, for that reason we're stuck with each other. So, how can we all "just" get along .... Better?
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      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        One of the ways Freelancer monetized its new purchase was to start sending emails to members pitching product offers. I opted-out.

        Lo and behold - just got another product pitch email from the forum - this time to a private PayPal email address. An old email address not used for forum registration. It was used to pay for WSO threads. An email address which was sold and pretty much now only used by IM spammers who I then report to have their accounts terminated.

        Smacks of desperation to me. Not gonna discuss legal implications of the forum sending solicitations to an email used for PayPal transactions and not just membership addresses. But I'm a bit grumpy about this.

        .
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  • Profile picture of the author Oliver13
    People are quitting...
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  • Profile picture of the author MrFume
    The rules changed concerning WSO's - if you want to post a free WSO you have to post it in the classifieds section, also you can no longer make claims of money earned. This alone has changed a lot of the traffic, slightly tightened the market. Newbies continue to seek the golden grail, how can I make a fortune from this new technology within a few months...eventually the message sinks in that you have to build a business, I believe it is more widely appreciated now. But there is still a lot of traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author RealCasher
    They have returned to their day job
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    In addition to the reasons given there was also an update of the forum version itself thrown into the mix, for the best part is was broken in many places and was nothing short of painful to use the forum. There are still broken parts such as images not showing and faults when you click to view images, It has been reported but nothing is done to repair the faults to a point where you say why bother asking again, so compound a dud forum with the above and you have a why bother moment here.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Hess
    Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

    So I've been away from the forum for a while, taking a much deserved break. I've only recently begun revisiting and noticed that there are very often fewer than 3000 members online. There used to be 5000+ online routinely.

    I know there have been lots of rule changes but has something else occurred to kill off so much traffic?
    Here's your answer from Alexa.com: http://screencast.com/t/YCSk5c4Q
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Lotter
    I agree there has been a significant shift in the type of threads being opened in the main forum. There have always been a lot of threads started by newbies asking questions that can be answered with the search function, but that was balanced out by a number of threads by experienced marketers sharing their knowledge, giving great tips, asking pointed questions which sparked helpful discussions & debates, etc. I remember a few years ago, even not too recently, it was common to see guys (and ladies of course) with 8000+ posts sharing stuff in the main forum that was of better quality than *some* WSO's and even debating and comparing strategies. I remember thinking, man, if this guy's sharing that kind of info for free, his WSO's must be awesome. Man, that was a magical time to be a newbie learning the ropes. Sadly, I don't see much of those old Warriors anymore. What a great pity. It was a time when the forum really served as a place for sharing and helping, and of course, opportunities. Now, it kinda has more of a feel of a hunting ground for easy targets with a budget.

    The War Room is still there at least, and it's still the place to be on this forum. Although it's primarily a place for sharing things you'd normally pay for, maybe it could have a sub-forum for war room members to have those sort of intermediate to advanced discussions? Not sure if that's the best solution but I'm just throwing it out there. It sure would be a way of having a forum with lots of high value discussions where one doesn't need to wade through pages of the same old threads asking the same old questions. It would also mean that newbies wanting to take part and learn in that environment would have to pay to be there, thinning out the list of serious people wanting an education from those magic button seekers - at least somewhat.
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    Where did Allen go? Have people moved on to a different forum somewhere?
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  • Profile picture of the author Christopher Fox
    I bounce in and out of here, too. This time 'round, it is the 'Writers Block' that seems to be missing. In addition to Bing being the 'new thing', lol. All the freelance writer wannabes and those former freelnace writers now claiming enormous success with Aff Mkgtng and Lists seem to be missing. One, even claiming to be making over one million dollars per day from article syndication, using only a staff of college students.

    Maybe so, and good for him if true, but extraordinary claims like that require some measure of substantiation. The 'Writers Block' was a large portion of the posts here, relative to their actual number. Personally? Well, because their claims, in general, were of major success, yet NO PROOF, even remotely circumstantial, ever accompanied most of those claims, MeThinks that the forum now refreshingly lacks a bunch 'o Hot Air.

    What is left is the underbelly of a forum, who's majority of participants, regardless of country, are new to the whole thing. This is NOT a specialized professional Internet Marketing forum. I have no complaints with it, there is a lot of information to be learned here. Of course plenty of BS, but that isn't the site owner's fault, past or present - it is just the way it be ...

    Let me tell a couple of you fellow Americans/Western Euros in this thread sumpin'. Some of you can kiss my ass with your comments about slave labor and implying because the majority of visitors (says, Alexa - which means nothing to me, as I give her no data myself and never have) are Indian that that somehow makes this place worse.

    First of all, their English is waaaaay better than your Hindi - they're already a leg up on you. When more of that Fiverr money spreads around India, and the population as a whole has more money, some of those folks are going to make bank, and in 7 years, people like you are going to be buying $5,000 tickets to see some of them speak perfect English and try to HELP you make money too ...

    Good for them, I say. It ain't their fault that not too long ago the German Families sitting on the throne in England and running the City of London were in there with their military, enforcing the Caste System and asset stripping the place, removing large amounts of natural resources for their own pocket.

    Were it not for all of the CHEESY American and Euro IMers, there wouldn't have been such a market for spun articles and $5 everything elses.

    In the end, I am glad there was, though, for a rising tide should raise all boats, even those halfway around the globe in the ports of India, the Phillipines, etc.

    Everything changes. It is 2015 now. You want to hang out with the 'pros' on an Internet Forum, get ready to fork out $99/month for a forum membership. This place is FREE for me to visit and post, AND there is STILL some good info here.

    I'm cool with that.

    Freelancer is a far more successful company than anyone here complaining about their 'slave labor' they brought with them. I actually trust some of the decisions were made with more behind the scenes info than we will ever have ...

    [/rant]
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve B
      Welcome back wolfmmiii,

      IMO, there seems to be less and less serious, intelligent posting on IM topics that would be helpful to more advanced marketers . . .

      and more and more "what's the fastest and easiest way to make money online" type posts that are not of interest to most successful business owners.

      A short while ago, just to satisfy my suspicions, I counted 46 of the 50 threads on page one of the Main Forum were posted by members having 15 or fewer posts. And of those 46, there were 44 that I would personally say would have easily been answered by a little research using the search function.

      Now don't give me a lecture on newbies rights to post. I try to help newbies all the time and I understand we were all newbies once - that is not the point here. I'm just trying to say that the vast majority of the threads have changed from serious and useful marketing topic discussion to a nearly endless stream of questions and comments that really hold no interest for the more experienced marketer.

      Just my opinion,

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author agmccall
        All freelancer really has to do is to look at the suggestion forum, there are some good ideas there

        al
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeff Lenney
          Banned
          Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

          All freelancer really has to do is to look at the suggestion forum, there are some good ideas there

          al
          Shoot, all they have to do is MODERATE on their own, which they clearly don't
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          • Profile picture of the author JosephC
            Originally Posted by Jeff Lenney View Post

            Shoot, all they have to do is MODERATE on their own, which they clearly don't
            Unless someone creates a thread insulting their company. Those disappear quickly!
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            hi

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            • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
              While I agree with a lot of the reasons and discussion that has happened over the last few months - discussions I've almost always been a part of - this is not true.

              There are hundreds of posts bashing FL and their staff over and over and over. They, for the most part, seem to have the patience of Job and let people talk out things even when they are what is being bashed.

              Unless you have proof of this don't post it. And I KNOW that you don't have proof of it.

              Mark

              Originally Posted by JosephC View Post

              Unless someone creates a thread insulting their company. Those disappear quickly!
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              • Profile picture of the author JosephC
                Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post


                Unless you have proof of this don't post it. And I KNOW that you don't have proof of it.
                That's because Freelancer deleted it! Lol

                (On the more serious side, I have seen several threads created bashing freelancer or the warrior forum and they have been taken down very quickly. I am sure that they leave things up, or possibly don't notice things, but they also take things down. Maybe it just depends on the moderator or the type of bashing that is taking place.)
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          • Profile picture of the author Cali16
            Originally Posted by Jeff Lenney View Post

            Shoot, all they have to do is MODERATE on their own, which they clearly don't
            Unfortunately, I think the current mods are extremely limited in what they can and can't do, so their hands are tied. The former, highly experienced mods, not only understood forum dynamics, they also had a lot of authority to take care of problems.
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            • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
              Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

              Unfortunately, I think the current mods are extremely limited in what they can and can't do, so their hands are tied. The former, highly experienced mods, not only understood forum dynamics, they also had a lot of authority to take care of problems.
              I can only speak for the OT Forum as I haven't spent any time upstairs for quite a while.

              I think the old mods, because they were active in a lot of the discussions also had some knowledge of the individual posters as well. They knew who was trying to "stir the pot", and those who were engaged in the discussion but expressing contrary viewpoints.

              Personally, I've had many threads and posts deleted because they crossed the line, and many that have been let through even though they must have come very close to that line, if they didn't actually cross it.

              I'd always assumed that was because the old mods were familiar with me (and others), so they cut me (and them) a bit of slack. The new mods however, don't know any of us from a bar of soap, so can't be sure whether we're "trolling" or just posting a contrary point of view.

              Whenever a thread or post of mine was deleted, I've always known why. It's because I crossed the line, or was taking the discussion down a path where things could get ugly. Whatever the reason, I've taken it in my stride and carried on. Nowadays if something is deleted I'm never really sure why it is. Still, I take it in my stride and carry on again.

              Anyway, life is much too short to worry about the demise (or rise) of any internet site. Life goes on...
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        One thing I've noticed over the last few months is the seeming acceptance of link dropping and self promotion in threads.

        This after a few months of my own scarce activity here, due to both outside activities and an eye surgery that limited my computer time.

        I'm not sure if Mr. Fox considers me part of the so-called Writers Block, but I've never made any kind of income claim. Mainly because I don't wish to be bushwhacked by people demanding I post confidential and/or proprietary information on a public forum lest I be tarred and feathered as so much "hot air".

        On my return, I find that the worst of the WF is flourishing. As I opened with, link dropping, sig pimping and blatant self promotion are seemingly ignored. I even question whether reporting said behaviors does any good, as I find posts reported remaining days later.

        I'll probably still pop in occasionally, but I can guarantee my post count will go up far more slowly than it has in the past...
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        • Profile picture of the author Christopher Fox
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          I'm not sure if Mr. Fox considers me part of the so-called Writers Block, but I've never made any kind of income claim.
          No need to be so formal, John. You identify yourself with that clique, then? For I named no names, and only referenced one person in particular (totally fair relative to his claim, IMO, but withheld naming names).

          I never said any Writers Block member made income claims, except for Mr. $500,000,000.00/year article syndication guy (who knows, maybe true - but, c'mon now, ya can't drop something like that without some type of back up, if even circumstantial, and be surprised if you are doubted). I said they claimed enormous/major success, if even that claim only implied. And handed out a lot of GENERAL advice. There were some very skilled and talented writers that I refer to, for sure. The implications of major success were always weaved into their words ...

          Let me thank you for the compliment, btw, for you obviously read my posts, an action I attribute to my writing skills, rather than Internet Marketing ones. We recognize our own easily, we writers ...

          Mainly because I don't wish to be bushwhacked by people demanding I post confidential and/or proprietary information on a public forum lest I be tarred and feathered as so much "hot air".
          Bingo. Send us all a link then. For you do have a link, correct? In addition to being very talented writers, the Writers Block were also Internet Marketers and entrepreneurs. So, where is your guy's high dollar coaching/private forum stuff? For, if the success implied in the words exists AND all ya'll had the freetime to hang out here, why not take even half of that freetime and make ABSOLUTE RECURRING MONTHLY, LITTLE WORK INVOLVED BANK at a private place where you could share even a FRACTION of your secrets and personal information?

          Never made sense to me. Anywhoo, John, last word is yours, no need for me to clutter up this thread or aggravate the mods ...
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Originally Posted by Christopher Fox View Post

            No need to be so formal, John. You identify yourself with that clique, then? For I named no names, and only referenced one person in particular (totally fair relative to his claim, IMO, but withheld naming names).
            I recognized the name you didn't name, as well as remember jousting matches with another, and realize that I often agreed with what they posted. If that makes me part of the clique, so be it.

            Originally Posted by Christopher Fox View Post

            I never said any Writers Block member made income claims, except for Mr. $500,000,000.00/year article syndication guy (who knows, maybe true - but, c'mon now, ya can't drop something like that without some type of back up, if even circumstantial, and be surprised if you are doubted). I said they claimed enormous/major success, if even that claim only implied. And handed out a lot of GENERAL advice. There were some very skilled and talented writers that I refer to, for sure. The implications of major success were always weaved into their words ...
            You're seeing the tip of the iceberg. I can't speak for the WB, but my PM mailbox has a lot of IM correspondence with very specific coaching and advice, much of which would not have been appropriate for the public forum. (NOTE: That is not to be taken as an invitation.)

            As for implications of major success, that seems to be an integral part of the dialect of the English language one might call "IM speak."

            Originally Posted by Christopher Fox View Post

            Let me thank you for the compliment, btw, for you obviously read my posts, an action I attribute to my writing skills, rather than Internet Marketing ones. We recognize our own easily, we writers ...
            Chris, I do read your posts, as even when I disagree with what you say, they are among the more readable. Especially over the last few months.

            (That isn't a shot at folks for whom English is not their mother tongue.)

            Originally Posted by Christopher Fox View Post

            Bingo. Send us all a link then. For you do have a link, correct? In addition to being very talented writers, the Writers Block were also Internet Marketers and entrepreneurs. So, where is your guy's high dollar coaching/private forum stuff? For, if the success implied in the words exists AND all ya'll had the freetime to hang out here, why not take even half of that freetime and make ABSOLUTE RECURRING MONTHLY, LITTLE WORK INVOLVED BANK at a private place where you could share even a FRACTION of your secrets and personal information?
            Not being psychic, nor playing one on TV, I can't answer that. I believe someone once asked Rush Limbaugh why, with his solutions to the world's problems, he did not run for President. Limbaugh reportedly answered that, for one thing, he couldn't handle the pay cut.

            Originally Posted by Christopher Fox View Post

            Never made sense to me. Anywhoo, John, last word is yours, no need for me to clutter up this thread or aggravate the mods ...
            Since the last word is mine, here it is.

            Peace...
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    It's really weird - like I'm in some kind of time warp or something. I'm seeing questions about finding meta tags, article spinning, HubPages, etc. Mostly from fairly new members - not much in the way of chit chat from the more well-known folks that used to be all over the board.

    Weird....
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  • Profile picture of the author hardworker2013
    I think it is because of the repetition of the questions on this forum. The newbies do not search for basic topics before they post. I saw questions like "what is internet marketing" on the forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lightlysalted
    It's quality not quantity in my view. 5000k to 3000k tells you nothing other than a number. Is it that those 2k we're spammy posters? We're they hardened IM experts? Still love WF. A lot of good stuff here
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    • Originally Posted by Lightlysalted View Post

      Still love WF. A lot of good stuff here
      It needs a bit more salt.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    i guess most of us get tired of answering the same questions over and over. if you cant figure out how to apply the knowledge of "what i would do with my last $200" because you have $300 and feel you are in a different situation, then you ain't no entrepreneur. if that's you, then this I.M. thing aint for you.

    for many years, i have helped new folks and engaged in higher level marketing discussions with the old school guys. but with those old school folks mostly gone and the newbies running rampart looking for easy overnight solutions that just dont exist, it just not as fun to stop by here anymore.

    i dont feel like i am helping anyone around here anymore. i think thats a sentiment many old schoolers identify with too.

    i just cant help many of these people. even with some 20 years experience of running online businesses, i have no clue how to take a newbie with $50 and have them making big money quickly. Maybe i could start over with just $50 in my pocket with all my skills and knowledge, but for a newbie to do it, its just laughable.

    statically, they are better off buying lottery tickets. but most wouldn't appreciate that as honest financial advice.

    i can see my days being numbered around here too.

    p.s. mr fox. the name you didnt name was attached to another popular person who was banned here recently. i knew that from tricking them many years ago to visit a page an seeing the ips . i was told to "stand down" when i reported it back then. some of us knew those rumors were true long before they were outed.

    and i was one of the main ones to call that "person" out in the thread where they made the ridiculous claim.

    in fact, at the time me and one of the very senior WF mods then had a very heated discussion about why that person was even allowed to make such a ridiculous claim without repercussions.
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    • Profile picture of the author garyogden
      I also couldn't find a certain thread anymore, the guys selling blogs and pre-made web sites what happened to that thread?
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    @onSubie...

    Thanks. I appreciate that. I'm an IT guy by trade and was offered an outstanding (and lucrative) opportunity to spend the summer (and part of the fall) opening a new casino on the Las Vegas strip.

    After several months of 16-hour days, a successful opening, and a significant paycheck to go with it, I decided to take a few months off. When I returned, things appeared to be very different.
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    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      Let's do the Time Warp!

      Here is a graphic showing side by side threads on the WF today and exactly one year ago (a few weeks before Allen sold the forum):

      - Both have a thread asking what to do with a $500 investment
      - Both have threads asking for help getting started
      - Both have an Amazon thread
      - Both have threads about how to get more traffic
      - Both have classified /solo ad threads
      - Both have threads referring to newbies



      .

      .

      Here is a side by side from a year ago the main forum sections showing how many are viewing. These numbers fluctuate during the day. Numbers are higher a year ago, or roughly the same.




      .

      .

      The currently active users was higher a year ago, but roughly the same:



      .

      .

      Finally, this one is interesting. The number of registered users has exploded during the last year under Freelancer, increasing by 200,000 in a year. However, the number of forum threads is stagnant - probably significantly dropping when one looks at the numbers and amortizes them per year since this latest forum version went live. I do not remember the year when the switch was made to the new forum software. The same could be said for the number of posts. Whether the number of registered users is due to bots, or members who do not participate, or where they are from, you would need to ask someone with non-public stats:



      .
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      • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

        Let's do the Time Warp!

        Here is a graphic showing side by side threads on the WF today and exactly one year ago (a few weeks before Allen sold the forum):

        - Both have a thread asking what to do with a $500 investment
        - Both have threads asking for help getting started
        - Both have an Amazon thread
        - Both have threads about how to get more traffic
        - Both have classified /solo ad threads
        - Both have threads referring to newbies
        What the graphic doesn't show Brian is who's replied to the threads.
        These days it's usually the same 2 or 3 people with very loud sig files.
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        • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
          Side by side comparison of number of post counts and views per thread. Note: the listing of threads for today has changed since the original graphic in my prior post, and I excluded this thread. The time of the day from a year ago is closer to today than I expected:



          .
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          • Profile picture of the author garyogden
            It appears the Forum is no longer "The forum of public opinion". (dictionary definition).


            Even in the old days (I joined 4 years ago), I had posts deleted and moved for no reason.

            Fellow members being sarcastic when you asked a "reasonable question".


            They are happy to take your money but not your opinion.


            I don't think I have made any money here but I know I have spent a small fortune on "Warriors Special Offers" as that was the only place to advertise to a large audience, only to wake up the next morning to find my post with hardly any views and moved to page 3 or 4.


            I think I will seriously look at Facebook again but what is really needed is a "new forum", controlled by the members for the members, a complete revamp.


            I for one would certainly help out.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Keith
          Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

          What the graphic doesn't show Brian is who's replied to the threads.
          These days it's usually the same 2 or 3 people with very loud sig files.
          i think this is the key.

          but the truth is that many experienced folks have come and gone and such from this place for many years.

          i guess something i feel is that there are not many people actually trying to learn from the advice many experienced folks around here freely give these days. i know there have always been those who ignore advice, but it sure seems a lot more prevalent these days.

          for me personally, i think its that it seems very few people here are actually trying to build a business and most are just looking for shortcuts. i know that has always kinda been the case, but it just seems much worse now.

          I can't help but believe a couple of years of the wso section promising such things has exacerbated the belief that such shortcuts actually exist.
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      • Profile picture of the author KirkMcD
        Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

        Whether the number of registered users is due to bots, or members who do not participate, or where they are from, you would need to ask someone with non-public stats:



        .
        With a name like "sfjfyhijia," I'm leaning towards bots.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by KirkMcD View Post

          With a name like "sfjfyhijia," I'm leaning towards bots.
          Avatars and pseudonyms are one thing, but how can you possibly trust anyone with a user name that sounds like someone dropped a sandwich on their keyboard?

          I'm coming to the realization that the only reason to keep banging your head against the wall is because it feels so good when you stop...
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  • Profile picture of the author .X.
    Two main things:

    1) Freelancer's move to take over the cart system
    in the WSOF has pushed most of those offers to
    people's own sites. That's got to account for a huge
    decline in traffic.

    2) The guru-level marketers no longer have as
    much reason to hang out here, as others pointed
    out.

    I think Freelancer has moved too quick on the
    cash grab instead of really understanding why
    this place worked in the first place.

    I don't think the questions are the real issues
    because lame questions have always been around
    and they've never changed - but the quality of the
    answers has certainly declined and it's seemingly
    a bunch of the blind trying to lead the blind.

    There's not much to learn (as a 15-year vet) and
    that means there's not much reason to hang
    around because the interaction experience isn't
    there for the more advanced - it's richer elsewhere.

    And without those people you're sunk.

    X
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  • Profile picture of the author goindeep
    Just an FYI, they deleted my first post in this thread.... there you go, there is the #1 reason this forum sucks now a days > over moderation to the point people can't even discuss things which is what a forum is for in the first place. The definition of insanity (or North Korea) 'here is a forum, but you can only discuss what we want you to discuss.'

    If Facebook, Reddit and Twitter did this people would leave overnight in there millions.

    EDIT/UPDATE:

    Seeing as they deleted my post, here is a list of what I think is wrong with this forum, some of it has been this way since before the buy out by Freelancer and some of it is new.

    #1 - Over moderation. Some of the biggest and best places online are seldom moderated and when they are they are moderated well or are self moderated.

    An example of the over moderation is that I once brought up the sales and marketing topic of cannabis because the way I was reading it, cannabis was one of the fastest growing new industries in the USA, they deleted my thread and all I was trying to do was discuss a business topic which is currently being discussed by everyone. The New York Times, Rolling Stone, the BBC etc and yet this forum deleted the thread as if it was somehow illegal to discuss. Ridiculous!

    Another example is that I used the word "sucks" in my sig. Firstly it's not even a curse word and secondly, even f it is, who cares... what is this kinder garden?
    I'm a grown man and if I want to curse I should be able to like I can in my regular day to day life at home, work and 99% of all other places online.

    #2 Far too many good people left because of scams and perceived scams.

    WF was quick to act on real scams but there was a massive grey area and what used to happen is that if you complained to the forum staff they would say 'oh, it's between you and the seller' I'm not saying this is right or wrong, I am just saying this was a problem and it made a lot of good people leave. The new owners need to change this old image of the forum.

    #3 This forum acts to facilitate the sale of far too many Make Money Online (MMO) info products, memberships, coaching etc. Most people have had it with that sort of thing.

    Marketers basically selling 'how to make money' info products teaching new marketers how to do the exact same thing gets old really quickly and especially when some users make 99% of their entire income selling products on the warrior forum.

    This made people leave because IMO it showed people that the WF didn't really care about it's customers enough to protect them from these info products that realistically where not going to make people rich and were never going to create a sustainable business for anyone and instead made people feel that the forum cared more about making a quick buck.

    If you go anywhere else online, it's virtually impossible to sell the kinds of things that get sold here and I think that is a HUGE problem, The forum (in the past at least) had this idea that so long as it was not an outright scam it was between the buyer and seller to discuss guarantees, consumer protection, disclaimers etc.

    Unfortunately having this ideology just scares people away when there are so many technological solutions to this problem e.g. reporting tools, 'I dont want to see this buttons' etc.

    #4 Far too many of the same threads. New users asking the same thing that has been asked and answered 1000 times over. Other forums would just link the new thread to an already existing one.

    #5 Nothing new. The Internet has evolved, technology and how we communicate and sell things has evolved but WF has not.

    Bitcoin, 3D printing, Drones, Tipping, Social media, Mobile, Apps...

    WF needs to catch up.

    The last and final point from me is that the WF needs a total re-brand and over haul.

    It is no longer a forum.

    It hasn't been since well before the Freelancer take over.

    It is a market place for WSO's.

    In the forums own words it is "The worlds largest internet marketing marketplace".

    The reasons people came to the forum a decade ago are still the same reasons they come to the forum today. The only difference is that they are still being given the same thing (WSO's).

    People have evolved. People have gotten smarter and for more attuned.

    They don't come to a forum expecting to be sold and when they figure it out, they do one of 3 thrings. 1, they leave. 2, they buy something and maybe buy something else and then leave or 3, they will become one of the sellers.

    That's not how a forum works.

    That is how a marketplace works.

    The forum is not a forum. It is a market place. That is the number one reason people have left and are continuing to leave.

    How do you fix this?

    Easy.

    Separate the forum from the marketplace.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    i dont even know if it was them pushing their cart system as much as it was things like killing of free wso's and things like income claims. you can still have income claims on your own site.

    that has been a long time coming really. once you get to a certain size, it basically a must or you are going to have legal issues.

    but thats just the wso section. and to be honest, most of the power wso sellers haven't been all that active in the main forum for years. that was really only at the beginning of the wso section before it digressed into the mess it has become now.

    the silly questions have become the norm here rather than the exception. the most thought provoking threads these days are usually ones like this...rant threads. They still bring out the more experienced folks usually. Which is pretty sad and at the same time a good indication of the state of things.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi,

      I remember the first thread I posted in. It ended up being deleted (the best ones always did), but it was an epic six or seven pager full of polarisation, long, well thought out posts, simmering, ancient personal battles, really colourful characters with strong opinions and an interesting topic related to IM and ethical marketing issues.

      At least half of the participants were regular posters with lots of posts and above all else, they had an individual character which was larger than life and jumped out of the page at you.

      I immediately took one of the sides (with the good guys of course) and threw my oar (and the kitchen sink) in. It's probably fair to say that it wasn't quite so heated until I threw the fox into the henhouse,. but it wasn't really my fault - there was this henhouse just sitting there, begging for a fox to be thrown in. What else was I to do?

      I think the thread lasted into the next day before it got zapped, but by the end I had introduced myself, set my stall out, made a bunch of new friends and a bunch of new, highly motivated and committed enemies. My PM box had quite a few PMs telling me the (one-sided, but interesting nevertheless) back story to some of those running feuds.

      The difference I see now is that the personal aspect has kind of gone because the ratio of well known regular 'larger than life' characters compared to the others has been diluted massively. Back then, one of the biggest characters was the owner himself, which gave the place quite a 'clicky' (they all seemed to know each other) but addictive element (it created the desire to want to become a part of the clique, for some of us, I guess).

      But the real difference, in my opinion, is the departure from the forum of one of the only people from that first thread that I participated in who was an 'enemy' in that row but became more of a friend and a guide over the years. Some people are simply unique and irreplaceable. It was probably Mrs. Wombat himself who deleted the thread.

      Good times, good memories, still got the battle scars. but 'time waits for no one (and it won't wait for me') and things always move on and change, C'est la vie....
      Signature


      Roger Davis

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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Lenney
    Banned
    Honestly, I'm not even sure why i come around here anymore. Habit I guess - no loss if I get banned
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  • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
    Too many people who can't use the "Search" function inundating the forum with the same tired questions and complaints about how all WSOs are scams and "Wahhhh I had to sit through some upsells."

    Basically, it's become a place to whine and it's become a buyer's forum instead of a seller's forum. No one is talking about marketing or selling. It's just a bunch of noobs asking "What's the best method for making money?" and "How much can I make with $200?"

    I stopped logging in for a bit because it was too filled with crap. Came back this week after being insanely busy and...still the same sh*t.
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    • Profile picture of the author kilgore
      Originally Posted by Jennifer Hutson View Post

      it's become a buyer's forum instead of a seller's forum. No one is talking about marketing or selling. It's just a bunch of noobs asking "What's the best method for making money?" and "How much can I make with $200?"
      This is it exactly. I'd only add that there actually are a lot of sellers here, but most of them are the wrong kind: they are sellers trying to market to all of these noobs using the WF rather than sellers who actually make money outside of the WF then bring that knowledge back here to help one another make even more money outside of the WF.

      The fundamental issue I see with the WF is that it tries to be two things which aren't necessarily compatible with each other:
      1. Through its forums it tries to be a source of unbiased, high quality information on IM.
      2. Through the WSOs, signature advertising and other offers, it tries to be a marketplace for IM-related products.

      I think there is probably a way to do both -- and do both well -- on the same site, but it's a tough balancing act. The problem is that because there is so much marketing going on within the forums (by people sig whoring, etc.), the average post quality has declined markedly. It's not to say that there aren't good posts or good discussion anymore, but you now have to wade through a lot more crap to get there. Moreover, it's also true that as the average post quality has decreased, the smartest and most experienced people are participating less and less, which only fuels the cycle.

      My point is this: if the WF wants to keep its forums alive, it needs to better be able to balance the information sharing side of its business and the marketplace side of its business. It's really a classic case of a monetization strategy (let's be honest: it's probably the marketplace far more than the forums which bring in the money) not being in alignment with a core aspect of the business. It's not insurmountable (for instance, a lot of things would be improved by either making forum signatures somehow earned or banning them altogether), but it isn't easy. But given that the marketplace is what's paying the bills around here, it's not really clear to me that the WF has (or should have if you're Freelancer) much interest in saving the forums anyway.
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      • Profile picture of the author More Than Tips
        I want to give a high 5 to the OP..what a great insightful thread.

        I remember when there was no affiliate program at all...then came WarriorPlus and it was great but somebody studied Warriorplus for any areas that could be improved upon and we had a JVzoo.....then WarriorPlus responded and got better.

        Maybe the same will happen here...someone may see an opportunity to create a better forum or a forum that finds strengths in weak areas and then WF will get better. I am an optimist.

        But I do keep thinking of the guy who wanted to be placed back into the Matrix so there will always be some resistant to change.
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        • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
          Originally Posted by More Than Tips View Post

          Maybe the same will happen here...someone may see an opportunity to create a better forum or a forum that finds strengths in weak areas and then WF will get better. I am an optimist..
          Fairy dust and pixie farts will proabaly happen first, but you never know.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          The problem is we don't all work together...
          Of course not - there are many different agendas here. I got a lot of help and made friends here so I kept on posting to pay it forward where I could. It's been years since I sold anything here...and quite a few of the long term members are the same.

          Increasingly, I see expert marketers (i.e., people who actually earn a living online with this IM stuff year after year outside the WF) being attacked or dissed by right fighters and by people who think the "THING TO DO" is to argue with everyone else's answers.

          Talking about a member's ban or deletion would not have been allowed, either. Your membership here is between you and FL - and it is no one else's business.

          It's a different landscape and the attitude and atmosphere here have changed. Doesn't matter if it was planned by FL or just "happened". There's no going back. If FL wants my opinion, they'll ask for it. I've had some discussions with mods and admin and they seem like reasonable, intelligent people who are running this forum in the way the owners direct them to.

          This thread is interesting because the OP had not been here for months. The changes for him were more clear-cut than for those of us who have seen them occur gradually. Sort of like seeing a puppy at 6 weeks old and next seeing it at 6 months. If you had seen the pup daily you would not have been surprised by the changes that occurred in 5 months.

          Complaining about the forum and the rules is nothing new here. Remember when you weren't allowed to mention any hosting? Allen owned a share of a hosting company and only that one could be discussed here. Why? Because HE owned the forum.

          It's not up to us to make demands for changes or to vote for what we want. This is not our forum - we are guests here. If we find value, we return. If we don't, we move on. Not rocket science.

          kay
          Signature

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      • Profile picture of the author garyogden
        Agreed, lets face we mostly come on here to try and sell to anyone who could use our product/service I don't think many of us com on here and buy anything.
        It's a bit like a car boot sale! We do a lot of browsing/posting and rely on our sigs to make a quick buck!

        Undeniably there are long term WF members on here making a lot of money or even a living but maybe we are trying to sell too hard?


        Originally Posted by kilgore View Post

        This is it exactly. I'd only add that there actually are a lot of sellers here, but most of them are the wrong kind: they are sellers trying to market to all of these noobs using the WF rather than sellers who actually make money outside of the WF then bring that knowledge back here to help one another make even more money outside of the WF.

        The fundamental issue I see with the WF is that it tries to be two things which aren't necessarily compatible with each other:
        1. Through its forums it tries to be a source of unbiased, high quality information on IM.
        2. Through the WSOs, signature advertising and other offers, it tries to be a marketplace for IM-related products.

        I think there is probably a way to do both -- and do both well -- on the same site, but it's a tough balancing act. The problem is that because there is so much marketing going on within the forums (by people sig whoring, etc.), the average post quality has declined markedly. It's not to say that there aren't good posts or good discussion anymore, but you now have to wade through a lot more crap to get there. Moreover, it's also true that as the average post quality has decreased, the smartest and most experienced people are participating less and less, which only fuels the cycle.

        My point is this: if the WF wants to keep its forums alive, it needs to better be able to balance the information sharing side of its business and the marketplace side of its business. It's really a classic case of a monetization strategy (let's be honest: it's probably the marketplace far more than the forums which bring in the money) not being in alignment with a core aspect of the business. It's not insurmountable (for instance, a lot of things would be improved by either making forum signatures somehow earned or banning them altogether), but it isn't easy. But given that the marketplace is what's paying the bills around here, it's not really clear to me that the WF has (or should have if you're Freelancer) much interest in saving the forums anyway.
        Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    I just saw 1488 viewing. That is half of the usual 3000, but it gets worse. BMOC or big man on campus is gone. What can we say. Look at the Alexa score. Oh yes, it keeps on getting worse. Folks, we are in a tail spin. Hard to pull out when you are in one. Let us all work together to save out group. Frankly, it is not too late to turn things around, and we can still win. Perhaps this will make us stronger as a group. I hope so - peace.
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    • Profile picture of the author More Than Tips
      The WF has for me personally been a life changer. A few friendships that feel more like family than my real family sometimes! And yes there has been money made! Alot.

      The reality is that you have to make it what you want it to be. Filter out the noise, we all have our own agendas to some degree that is all part of our world. But it is give and take.

      Yea sometimes we have to do a dance when we are here that is all part of it. Just keep it simple. Help some people as best you can and continue to learn all you can so you can continue to help others.

      Keep your eyes on the prize whatever that is for each one of us. Soak up what is quality and dismiss what is filler.

      Freelancer smelled something when they pushed those chips forward to Allen Says and right now that smell is in the air again.....its opportunity.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeff Lenney
        Banned
        Originally Posted by More Than Tips View Post

        Freelancer smelled something when they pushed those chips forward to Alan and right now that smell is in the air again.....
        Hmmm, I know that smell - smells like failure
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    • Profile picture of the author salegurus
      Originally Posted by seobro View Post

      I just saw 1488 Let us all work together to save out group. Frankly, it is not too late to turn things around, and we can still win. Perhaps this will make us stronger as a group. I hope so - peace.

      (I was actually very negative about the state of things a while back, even started a thread in the OT about it. And it was actually Alexa who persuaded me to hang in there and see if we can't make a positive effort to get WF back on track)


      The problem is we don't all work together...

      I always feel that there only a few people who report posts or "advise" posters when they have posted in the wrong forum, posted something that's been done a thousand times before or just post obvious BS...

      I say call them out, if they are being lazy or plain obtuse tell them in the nicest way you can. If you are going to baby them nothing will change and you might as well give up now.

      If we all stand together and drill these "offenders" they will get the message that WF is not the place for them if they are not willing to follow the rules, use their brains once in a while or basic forum etiquette...

      This will only work if we all do it and do it soon....



      Maybe with Admins permission we could all dedicate part or all of our Sigs to a unified message. A message that will address the most common gripes listed here...
      Signature
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

      ― George Carlin
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Lenney
    Banned
    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post9988321

    Okay, I'm TRYING to be nice - this is my first attempt of the day!
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  • Profile picture of the author Winning34
    I'm pretty new to the forums, but am not new to making money online and have actually lurked on and off here for a few years.

    Never mind people making informative posts. The biggest challenge at the moment is actually finding a thread where posters can string an English sentence together. I'm not a grammar nazi - I'm not talking about people mixing up "your" and "you're" etc. I'm not talking about typos. But FFS, 50% of the posts on here are in terrible broken English with no punctuation. It really is hard work understanding WTF they are trying to say and it's pointless trying to engage with them in any meaningful conversation. That would be fine if communication skills weren't an integral part of IM, but they are. Then when you click on their sigs and see their "content", it's no surprise at all they aren't making any money.

    I realise that not everyone is a native English speaker. But seriously, if you want to do business in English, then your English needs to be excellent. I speak fluent French but it is still only my second language. I don't make many mistakes but it would be noticeable to a French native speaker and so I would never dream of trying to do business in the French language unless I got everything proof-read.

    I'm sick of reading posts where the poster has made no effort at all to be understood and yet expects the reader to wrap his head around it and give him an answer.
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    • Profile picture of the author garyogden
      I am liking this thread I am sure there will be a few "ideas" knocking about soon between a few members - wink
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  • Profile picture of the author elmo033057
    The moderators on here have gotten extremely rude.

    They don't really care about the people that are on here. Apparently, they believe this forum is too big to fail. I had an issue today. One of my posts was moved because the fellow that messaged me claimed I was off topic.

    So, when I sent him other examples of people that were clearly off topic that never get moved , he told me to quit messaging him.

    What that says to me is: Screw You Pal!

    Oh well, there's always Wicked Fire or 9 million other places that are growing that care.

    ELMO
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author carlo_sim
    Everyone is leaving... and they are all going to facebook

    There's a good community in facebook but i dont know if i could mention
    the group name here

    Also, it's easier to communicate with people there, easy to add friends and you
    can actually meet them once you get to talk to them.

    Harder for people to scam as well since you can see their mutual friends and
    real identities

    IM is also changing into something more real... in the sense that more people are
    leaning towards building relationships on and offline

    but..

    Ill still give warriorforum lots of credit for helping newbies build their
    foundation into the world of IM

    if people can just use the "search" button, they can learn a lot here. There's
    no need to keep on asking the same question each time.

    If people in here can start building real relationships...

    and stop treating each other as a means to make a sale

    then maybe..

    just maybe... we can still revive the real value that was lost
    in this forum
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  • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
    The forum has just been lacking in controversy.

    PM me if anyone has any leads. I'll stir the pot.
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    • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
      Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

      The forum has just been lacking in controversy.

      PM me if anyone has any leads. I'll stir the pot.
      Seems like it lacks controversy because many of the heavy hitters, some with whom I've personally done battle with, have left, taking their strong opinions with them. Those heated debates were often the most informative threads when they didn't turn personal.

      What we are left with are lots of "how do I..." threads posted by people with posts counts of 10 or less and answered mostly by.... you guessed it... people with post counts of 10 or less.
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      • Profile picture of the author David Keith
        Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

        Seems like it lacks controversy because many of the heavy hitters, some with whom I've personally done battle with, have left, taking their strong opinions with them. Those heated debates were often the most informative threads when they didn't turn personal.

        What we are left with are lots of "how do I..." threads posted by people with posts counts of 10 or less and answered mostly by.... you guessed it... people with post counts of 10 or less.
        yeah, i had one of those a couple weeks ago. it was a decent battle type thread that remained mostly civilized. it was fun for most of us i think and i am sure many folks actually caught a couple marketing lessons as well.

        i remember when those were pretty common. there were lots of knowledgeable people who just saw a particular issue a different way.
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        • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
          Originally Posted by David Keith View Post


          i remember when those were pretty common. there were lots of knowledgeable people who just saw a particular issue a different way.
          Yep, I often found myself in one every couple weeks.
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        • Profile picture of the author garyogden
          Here's a good one...


          Just had a PM...


          Hi, want to buy a solo ad?


          Member joined 2014 and has a total of 5 posts!!!


          Should I buy from him?!


          Nah don't think so, reason I got it, this thread has gone viral.
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          • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
            Originally Posted by garyogden View Post

            this thread has gone viral.
            Has it really? All this time, I've been trying to figure out how to go viral...

            sheesh
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            I understand there's quite of the "pm promotion" going on. I seldom get them - maybe because I report them to mods and let them sort it out.

            2014 and few posts may only mean that person purchased the WF account recently.
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      • Profile picture of the author agmccall
        Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post


        What we are left with are lots of "how do I..." threads posted by people with posts counts of 10 or less and answered mostly by.... you guessed it... people with post counts of 10 or less.
        Not only that, I think people are either joining in groups or signing up multiple accounts. I was on a thread today and the OP and subsequent posters answered a generic question with less than basic answers and they all had multiple thanks. It made no sense to me.

        As a side note, in the past 3 days I have reported no less than 7 signatures with affiliate links in them.

        al
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        • Profile picture of the author Arissa Lockhart
          Started reading through and am glad to see some familiar names posting here. I've been lurking on the forums since 2007(?) but never signed up until a few years back.

          So, for some reason, I clicked on the main forum today. When I saw this thread by wolfmmiii, my heart leapt a little -- oohh, he's back?! Welcome back! Your posts have helped me make some additional income through Amazon (with a little tweaking on my part, too.)

          I don't visit the forum every day. I pop in maybe once a week, sometimes coming here every 3-4 weeks only. And the most annoying thing has got to be the WSO section. It's really awful -- I see a few WSOs today, and when I drop in a month later, I see the same old WSOs again on the first 2 pages. It's been an ongoing thing and these sellers have more than one thread each. Don't these people have businesses to run or are their entire businesses based on selling to WF members?

          I don't come by as often as I'd like to because -- wait for it -- I'm actually busy. I've got content to write, bloggers to reach out to, social media activities to keep track of. And during my down times, I come along here to learn "what's new". What's been going on that I should take note of? Are there deals for services I need? Is there something I can absorb and channel toward my business? All of those things.

          Sadly, there's nothing to shout about lately.
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      • Profile picture of the author elmo033057
        Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

        Seems like it lacks controversy because many of the heavy hitters, some with whom I've personally done battle with, have left, taking their strong opinions with them. Those heated debates were often the most informative threads when they didn't turn personal.

        What we are left with are lots of "how do I..." threads posted by people with posts counts of 10 or less and answered mostly by.... you guessed it... people with post counts of 10 or less.
        Abso-freakin' lutely

        Well said!
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    Thanks Arissa!
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  • Profile picture of the author Nate Simms
    Holy crap.

    Instead of deleting this thread, the mods simply moved it to OT.

    ... perhaps they're maturing?
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by Nate Simms View Post

      Holy crap.

      Instead of deleting this thread, the mods simply moved it to OT.

      ... perhaps they're maturing?
      Now that it's here lets really think this through and get to the bottom of this steep decline and drastic change in our beloved Warrior Forum: It's all Claude's fault! He's fat, old, bald and doesn't get any. You're welcome!
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Purely from an investment point of view, the forum was bought a a going concern, a venture capital investment. That's all, if it turns a profit from it's advertising and the subscriptions to the War Room etc, then great. If it does not, count your losses. I think it has still the following and momentum to turn a profit.

        I'm sure the previous, original owner made a tidy sum from both the running and the sale of the forum. It was his only baby though and had a bit more of the personal touch.
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          We all tend to look at the takeover from the viewpoint of the Warrior Forum, but Freelancer was able to add nearly a million extra members virtually overnight (all WF members were automatically signed up to FL).

          In an industry where numbers talk, that fact alone could almost have justified the purchase.

          .
          Signature
          I've just put Richard Branson's number on speed-dial. I call it my "Get-Rich-Quick" scheme.

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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

            We all tend to look at the takeover from the viewpoint of the Warrior Forum, but Freelancer was able to add nearly a million extra members virtually overnight (all WF members were automatically signed up to FL).

            In an industry where numbers talk, that fact alone could almost have justified the purchase.

            .
            Lol, yea, Google did the same with old blogspot.com accounts shortly after starting up G+ to boost numbers (I'm sure for shareholders to drool over).

            Look at G+ now (G who?).
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          • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
            Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

            We all tend to look at the takeover from the viewpoint of the Warrior Forum, but Freelancer was able to add nearly a million extra members virtually overnight (all WF members were automatically signed up to FL).

            In an industry where numbers talk, that fact alone could almost have justified the purchase.

            .
            and most of us Warriors have never used FL - and never will. So the numbers are really meaningless.

            it's too bad many old time warriors are using Facebook for their community groups - I have always preferred private forums for online discussions and I miss the pre-Freelancer Warrior forum - it just seemed more of a community then -

            I miss so many of the old timers - it's so good to see Roger (ex-Rat) and John McCabe posting in this thread - I remember that epic thread Roger mentioned - as heated as it got it was awesome - filled with intelligent passionate posts -
            I am sadly missing those kinds of posts - though we do get them occasionally, they are extremely rare.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

            We all tend to look at the takeover from the viewpoint of the Warrior Forum, but Freelancer was able to add nearly a million extra members virtually overnight (all WF members were automatically signed up to FL).

            In an industry where numbers talk, that fact alone could almost have justified the purchase.

            .
            What good are members who aren't really members in any real sense of the word? Some members here don't even know or care that they have a Freelancer account. It just made me mad when I found out that they created an account with my email and without my permission. How loud do "fake" numbers talk?

            It's much like the 200,000K or more new "members" they recruited here ... and yet the traffic and the forum are in free fall decline. So what good are those numbers?
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            • Profile picture of the author ExRat
              Hi Suzanne,

              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              What good are members who aren't really members in any real sense of the word? Some members here don't even know or care that they have a Freelancer account. It just made me mad when I found out that they created an account with my email and without my permission. How loud do "fake" numbers talk?

              It's much like the 200,000K or more new "members" they recruited here ... and yet the traffic and the forum are in free fall decline. So what good are those numbers?
              Forgive me answering for Frank and bear in mind that I am not in the same league as the people who run these big businesses so my opinion is just wild speculation, but it just looks like a strategic move which can be used to pump up the numbers all round and allows them to funnel people between their businesses for strategic purposes.

              Similar to when Google paid well over the odds for a very active and growing video hosting website which was losing fortunes, many wondered what they were doing. But it positioned them as a serious player, one who was ambitious about dominating across diverse areas of business and was willing to invest in order to expand. Now they own another business which dominates its field and its brand name has become a verb for taking a specific action online.

              Looking at the Warrior Forum visitor numbers now makes people wonder what it was all about, but others might point at the shifts that are taking place from West to East generally and might look at India's population and suggest that if Warrior Forum became the go-to place for them to congregate over time along with other populous nations from that part of the world then perhaps the numbers might look different in the long term?

              Perhaps Freelancer see the forum as a place where the clientele from their main business can hang out and have discussions about business without being on the same domain name as where they do their freelancing? Maybe they already had ideas in mind like freemarket.com and felt that the best 'launch pad' for these ideas was to purchase the warrior userbase and encourage that userbase to populate those new projects?

              I find it fascinating and I'm interested to see over time whether the strategy they are pursuing becomes more apparent and whether it turns out to have been a wise investment coupled with a good strategy.
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            • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              How loud do "fake" numbers talk?
              The "quality" of the members is another matter. But clearly FL think numbers are important - you can hardly read an article about them without mention of how many members they have, and what market share that gives them. Here's what the CEO, Matt Barrie, said in a 2014 Forbes interview:

              We want to be in every country, every language, every currency where people work on computers. The online marketplace trend is towards ‘winner takes all’, so we need to get big quickly.”

              And when a bunch of us met Matt Barrie last year, we could certainly see his fixation on the figures.

              That and technology.

              It was clear that FL view the traditional forum model as outdated. Matt said the current WF format "used up too much real estate" and talked about a cleaner, stripped down look - more like Reddit, where readers vote posts up or down. I suspect we have yet to see the really major changes to this place.

              .
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

                Hi Suzanne,

                Looking at the Warrior Forum visitor numbers now makes people wonder what it was all about, but others might point at the shifts that are taking place from West to East generally and might look at India's population and suggest that if Warrior Forum became the go-to place for them to congregate over time along with other populous nations from that part of the world then perhaps the numbers might look different in the long term?

                Perhaps Freelancer see the forum as a place where the clientele from their main business can hang out and have discussions about business without being on the same domain name as where they do their freelancing? Maybe they already had ideas in mind like freemarket.com and felt that the best 'launch pad' for these ideas was to purchase the warrior userbase and encourage that userbase to populate those new projects?
                As far as what Barrie and others want for WF, I can only go by what I've read in interviews with Barrie. In his announcements and interviews about acquiring the WF, he bragged that the majority of his membership was from the US ... calling it premium membership. Well, that's no longer the case. He also mused that the membership was "addicted" to WF like a cult. Well, he can now see that the core membership wasn't addicted ... they've disappeared in a heartbeat instead of continuing in an obviously failing forum.

                Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                The "quality" of the members is another matter. But clearly FL think numbers are important - you can hardly read an article about them without mention of how many members they have, and what market share that gives them. Here's what the CEO, Matt Barrie, said in a 2014 Forbes interview:

                We want to be in every country, every language, every currency where people work on computers. The online marketplace trend is towards ‘winner takes all’, so we need to get big quickly.”

                And when a bunch of us met Matt Barrie last year, we could certainly see his fixation on the figures.

                That and technology.

                It was clear that FL view the traditional forum model as outdated. Matt said the current WF format "used up too much real estate" and talked about a cleaner, stripped down look - more like Reddit, where readers vote posts up or down. I suspect we have yet to see the really major changes to this place.

                .
                Well, how's that working for him? Elance is the largest freelancing site in terms of real members who participate in the market. Dishonest numbers are just dishonest numbers. They don't make a site successful. Real members make a site successful. Because of the way I acquired my Freelancer account, I would never log into it. But who knows, maybe they even have some bot that makes it look like fake members are logging in.

                People who don't know they're a member or don't want to be a member are not members, know matter who says they are.

                As for the technology ... funny, it was successful before the sale and now it's not. There's not going to be many left to appreciate Barrie's vision by the time he gets around to it. I personally don't use Reddit. I don't like it. I did use WF ... I liked it. But he will have members anyway. The numbers say so, don't they? He just won't have very many people left who actually participate and made this forum the great forum that it WAS.
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                • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  Well, how's that working for him?
                  Not as well as expected would be my guess - which could be why those pop-up membership reminders didn't last that long.

                  I know you know this, but for the record, I don't disagree with the points you make - I'm just putting forward a possible FL rationale.

                  .
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                    Not as well as expected would be my guess - which could be why those pop-up membership reminders didn't last that long.

                    I know you know this, but for the record, I don't disagree with the points you make - I'm just putting forward a possible FL rationale.

                    .
                    Yeah, I knew that. I'm not that familiar with this site but it paints a very gloomy pic of WF traffic over the last year.

                    warriorforum.com Website Traffic and Information | TrafficEstimate.com

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                    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                      Yeah, I knew that. I'm not that familiar with this site but it paints a very gloomy pic of WF traffic over the last year.
                      I missed the part of your post where it said, "In-depth research provided by Big Frank." :-) :-)

                      Cheers. - Frank
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                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                        I missed the part of your post where it said, "In-depth research provided by Big Frank." :-) :-)

                        Cheers. - Frank
                        lol .... in depth research provided by Big Frank.

                        @ wolfmmiii
                        Judging by extreme downhill slide the past 6 months, I'd have to suggest that you are responsible for the decline in traffic. Good to see you back. lol.
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                        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                          lol .... in depth research provided by Big Frank.
                          TY. It's nice to have what little work I do on a daily basis, recognized.

                          Additionally, you should all know that Suzanne is solely responsible for talking me into buying my new car. She has bewitching powers and I was not able to overcome her spell on me.

                          The BMW dealer said to say, "thanks." I told him that I thought you'd be more partial to a finder's fee.

                          Thanks - I think.

                          Cheers. - Frank
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                          • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
                            I dunno, but if I owned this forum and "the world's largest freelancing" marketplace, I'd get off the dime and be putting some of those top freelancers to work making interesting and informative posts upstairs.
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                            • Profile picture of the author yukon
                              Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

                              I dunno, but if I owned this forum and "the world's largest freelancing" marketplace, I'd get off the dime and be putting some of those top freelancers to work making interesting and informative posts upstairs.
                              Those guys are busy hammering the SEO forum with:
                              • How do I Increase My Alexa Score?
                              • What's the Best Wordpress SEO Plugin?

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                              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                Banned
                                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                                Those guys are busy hammering the SEO forum with:
                                I'm sure they're all busy 'hammering' something, but last I checked it was not euphemistically referred to as the SEO forum.

                                Cheers, - Frank
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi,

          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          I'm sure the previous, original owner made a tidy sum from both the running and the sale of the forum. It was his only baby though and had a bit more of the personal touch.
          I find that rather difficult to believe, but maybe you're right?

          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          We all tend to look at the takeover from the viewpoint of the Warrior Forum, but Freelancer was able to add nearly a million extra members virtually overnight (all WF members were automatically signed up to FL).

          In an industry where numbers talk, that fact alone could almost have justified the purchase..
          I'm no expert, but I'm with you on that one.

          Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

          It died.

          Sorry it's had to get to 121 posts to finally get your answer.
          I'm with you on that one, too.

          And them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey in Rye
          Singin' "This'll be the day the WF dies
          "

          Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

          I remember that epic thread Roger mentioned - as heated as it got it was awesome - filled with intelligent passionate posts - I am sadly missing those kinds of posts - though we do get them occasionally, they are extremely rare.
          Really? It was about Jason Potash' Article Announcer. I remember I jumped in on the side of Big Mike and Mr. Unconventional...

          Seems like years ago. Oh yeah, it was!
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  • Profile picture of the author butters
    Heres the time line....

    Big company buys popular website which is doing well > Big company has no idea how to run said website > Website tanks because life time members aren't happy > They leave and move on > Big company has loads of posts of little validity > Old members move to this forum and post funny stuff > We all laugh
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    Scary thing about that traffic drop is the fact that search traffic remained pretty consistent. That means the traffic drop can only be attributed to existing users simply leaving and not returning. Wow
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    Freelancer "bought" the wso market place....not the main forum. I just mean that's what they paid for really.

    The reality is that they made several major changes to that part of the forum which drastically changed the marketplace. The main forum and those posts were a relatively small amount of the wf traffic. And you could and still can see that in the main forum, it's mostly driven by a relatively small number of people. The wso section is mostly affiliate traffic. They come, they buy, they leave. It's much more unique traffic.

    So with all the changes there, it's not surprising the traffic numbers are off and have changed demographics. Their payment system really wasn't the big deal as I see it. It had some normal issues, but let's be real, for most products, there really isn't much difference between warrior+, Jvzoo and warrior payments. I know there are some and warrior payments is the newer and weaker one. But which of those platforms you sell through isn't very likely to make or break your product. People just like to blame the obvious things.

    The real obvious difference that affected traffic being drive. To wso's more than anything was the banning of income claims. When they did that, people did what they did when cb started cleaning house a couple years ago.... They bailed for places with less rules. So now, that traffic is going to other places where incomes claims are not banned.

    You can read between the lines of jvzoos recent changes too that reflect them trying to distance themselves from some of the nonsense too. They aren't outright saying why...just saying to protect the platform, but many of us have a damn good idea of what they are protecting it from.

    The wso marketplace really drives the forum now...not the other way around as it was originally intended many years ago....but that's been sthe case for a few years now. It's not new to freelancer.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      Their payment system really wasn't the big deal as I see it. It had some normal issues, but let's be real, for most products, there really isn't much difference between warrior+, Jvzoo and warrior payments.
      There's a huge difference between the number and quality of affiliates in those platforms. There's another huge difference ... instant commissions vs delayed commissions that JVZoo offers. Having been ripped off royally by fraudulent affiliates, I would never again use a platform that you couldn't set an affiliate to delayed commissions.

      With the increase of 200,000 members here and the quality of the discussions in the forum being basically junk and spam, I wouldn't even want to deal with affiliate requests from this forum at this time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    A couple of quick observations...


    I see some of the older members on Facebook. Social media is a major competitor that didn't exist in the earlier years of the WF. You can join a number of FB groups all from a single account.


    Another reason the Main isn't what it used to be is that there are so many subforums now, about just about every topic. There really isn't much left to discuss in the Main. There's still some pretty good conversations going on in the subforums.
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  • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
    Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

    What Happened to WF During My Six-Month Vacation?
    It died.

    Sorry it's had to get to 116 posts to finally get your answer.
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  • Profile picture of the author WalkingCarpet
    Banned
    God joined up.
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    • Profile picture of the author butters
      Originally Posted by WalkingCarpet View Post

      God joined up.
      I joined in 2009??
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    • Profile picture of the author agmccall
      Originally Posted by WalkingCarpet View Post

      God joined up.
      Posts like this are one of the reasons

      al
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  • Profile picture of the author johnweyer
    Hey Wolf welcome back - sounds like a great gig you had in Vegas. First thread I've read in a while. Actual discussion. Yeah the forum has changed. IMHO the average IQ has dropped 10 or 20 points. So many pointless unanswerable questions. Whats the best this or should I do that or how can I whatever. Nobody wants to learn - just get money with no work. Everybody selling each other the same pipe dreams. A circle jerk. I did like when you would get into heated discussions once in a while. Great threads. btw I still maintain the site and FB page you made for me. Makes a little money but its more fun building the following. I learned more about IM from Alexa's posts and actually have a folder of them on another computer that I don't have online anymore. Miss Alexa. Maybe the quality of the old Warrior Forum was a mirror of the the way the internet and IM was. Sadly,now, perhaps it is all just pablum for the masses. Wow - I just spent an hour and a half on warrior forum, just like the old days.
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by johnweyer View Post

      Hey Wolf welcome back - sounds like a great gig you had in Vegas. First thread I've read in a while. Actual discussion. Yeah the forum has changed. IMHO the average IQ has dropped 10 or 20 points. So many pointless unanswerable questions. Whats the best this or should I do that or how can I whatever. Nobody wants to learn - just get money with no work. Everybody selling each other the same pipe dreams. A circle jerk. I did like when you would get into heated discussions once in a while. Great threads. btw I still maintain the site and FB page you made for me. Makes a little money but its more fun building the following. I learned more about IM from Alexa's posts and actually have a folder of them on another computer that I don't have online anymore. Miss Alexa. Maybe the quality of the old Warrior Forum was a mirror of the the way the internet and IM was. Sadly,now, perhaps it is all just pablum for the masses. Wow - I just spent an hour and a half on warrior forum, just like the old days.
      It's interesting that you provide a proof-reading service and yet don't seem to have heard of paragraphs.
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      • Profile picture of the author johnweyer
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          I have a Freelancer account?

          Seems like they forgot to tell me about it. Might explain some of the canned-pork-like email I've been getting...
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    I still have no idea wtf growth hacking is supposed to be.

    -Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      I still have no idea wtf growth hacking is supposed to be.

      -Chris
      I think that's what they call it when you cut off a skin tag with a pair of toenail clippers.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        I think that's what they call it when you cut off a skin tag with a pair of toenail clippers.
        Anyone want a full hour, where you are the smartest person at the table? Invite Riffle for lunch.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Wow.......
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Has it occurred to anyone that FL might not see much of a difference?

    and if so they might be right?

    It pretty hard for a group to look in a mirror but sometimes you have to try. 80+% of what goes on in a make-money-online-by-pushing-make-money-online environment (and you are in denial if you don't admit that is mostly what WF has been for loooong time) is garbage and/or basic common sense.

    The longer you have been in IM and on this board the larger the blinders grow that you or your online friends are invested with brilliance but the difference to outsiders of what you call great info and interesting as opposed to garbage goes for D+ and D grade material to outsiders and its hard for them to get the plus difference.

    IMers evaluation of what is good and great can't be believed anyway. We are the set that generally has been hoodwinked that a pdf written in a few days can actually get away being called a "product".

    So to me the influx of newbs really just exacerbated an existing problem that already had the place in steep decline. For all the talk of people leaving because of FL a lot of people just left to get back to what works...their offline jobs.

    Seriously the only place I ever read anything in the last four years that was truly enlightening was the offline business section. Its probably the only section that truly takes business seriously and that says a lot about internet marketing.

    So I would not be surprised if at least some people at FL, not being in the IM scene, wonder to themselves "what are these people talking about. It was all a pile of nonsense even before we got here"
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Seriously the only place I ever read anything in the last four years that was truly enlightening was the offline business section. Its probably the only section that truly takes business seriously and that says a lot about internet marketing."
      You don't miss the good old days in the SEO forum?

      As a Chinese, HOW can I write high quality articles
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      • Profile picture of the author More Than Tips
        I remember many years ago first reading the WSO Sticky on how to set up a New WSO. Allen suggested in so many words to copy threads that were doing well. To me that was the beginning of the end. Copy Cat City.

        Add to that a drop in the price for creating a WSO.

        Allen cashed out because he knew what was coming IMO. The cow got milked and properly!

        We keep seeing the S.O.S. threads about How To Make $ in a day, week, month, year because those threads get traction.

        This very thread will get copied because it is getting traction....the W.F. is a broken record playing over and over and over again. Time For FRESHNESS.

        I used to absolutely love making contributions then I would tell people hey you can also find me over at the W.F. It was like letting people check out your resume/portfolio and allow them to get a good feel on what type of person you are.

        Who does that any more now?
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        You don't miss the good old days in the SEO forum?

        As a Chinese, HOW can I write high quality articles
        I don't even know how you still bother in there Yuke. I've gone there a few times, felt my brain beginning to melt and clicked the back button. However if you think about it you will realize Penguin and Panda did the section in. Thats when we started getting all those "SEO is dead" threads because TON LOADS of people just couldn't swallow the idea that running tools could not rank you anymore and worse could hurt you (which everyone used to swear would never happen)

        Push buttons to rank went well with the idea of getting rich sitting on your couch. When that was gone lots of names you saw every week just started disappearing long before FL bought the joint.

        but look man I saw you the other day refer to vb.net. We are on the internet. Without doubt the most vibrant piece of technology ever where every week millionaires are made but most peoples in IM's mind freezes over at the idea of any and i mean ANY coding (which the net is built on top of). Everything has got to be easy. Shucks tell someone about a great idea they get excited then tell them they can't do it with Worpress and that's it party is over. The thread will die. if they have to type some text in say even another CMS like Drupal instead then forget it

        Long before FL everything is about doing Pdfs, maybe some videos and slamming your list
        (or doing a WSO or "product launch" on JVZoo etc). Theres just so many interesting ways of talking about that and then it got boring.
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

        some of us fly under the radar because we keep the particulars of our business private - privacy is important to some of us - we don't feel the need to tell people what we do, how we do it, and how much we make, like most of the mmo crowd does.
        That's fine Karen but then that has nothing to do with the forums because whats private doesn't get on the forums. I'm into things that I almost never talk about here like programming but its just not what this forum is about. Like it or not deny it or not its about MMO and sorry MMO by pushing MMO. No new person coming here in the last five years would say WF membership was very balanced in discussing business. You are kidding yourself and thats why theres a divide between how people in this community see it and how those outside of it see it and its a HUGE divide.

        The truth is Warriors are a diverse group of people - don't just lump them into 2 groups - because that isn't the reality of the membership at all.
        Nah sorry karen. You are in denial. Warriors are not very diverse. It sounds PC but its just not reaity. You wouldn't call a business that hires 10% women gender diverse would you? sure there are a few sprinkled in but the pull of WF for years has been quick and easy MMO.

        Its a very pertinent discussion to this thread and FL. Some old time WF members have a view of the community because of their long involvement here that just does not match the reality that people on the outside see and see very clearly. Tell a lot of business people this is where you learn good business principles and they will literally ROFL.
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        • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post




          Nah sorry karen. You are in denial. Warriors are not very diverse. It sounds PC but its just not reaity. You wouldn't call a business that hires 10% women gender diverse would you? sure there are a few sprinkled in but the pull of WF for years has been quick and easy MMO.

          Its a very pertinent discussion to this thread and FL. Some old time WF members have a view of the community because of their long involvement here that just does not match the reality that people on the outside see and see very clearly. Tell a lot of business people this is where you learn good business principles and they will literally ROFL.
          Mike, I deleted my post for a reason.
          you're right - I don't see things the same way as most people. But it isn't because I'm in denial - maybe it's because I spend most of my time in the OT forum or the Developer forums - not much of an MMO crowd in those sections. The people who frequent those areas of the forums are quite diverse, in fact.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

            Mike, I deleted my post for a reason.

            Ummm....and who doesn't? That doesn't mean I am going to go back and see everyone who might have.

            you're right - I don't see things the same way as most people. But it isn't because I'm in denial - maybe it's because I spend most of my time in the OT forum or the Developer forums - not much of an MMO crowd in those sections. The people who frequent those areas of the forums are quite diverse, in fact.
            Whatever point you think you are making you really aren't. No one ever said the word "all" and the numbers only confirm my point. Right now theres about 200 viewers in the OT section and a hundred in the programming section. If even half those were not involved in MMO thats not even 5% of the number in the main forum, the marketplace sections, SEO etc.

            So like it or not deny it or not MMO its what this forum is mostly about. The OT doesn't even really count given the amount of people who are retired from doing anything else but keeping up with old friends. No way FL bought the place for that group.
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            • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Ummm....and who doesn't? That doesn't mean I am going to go back and see everyone who might have.



              Whatever point you think you are making you really aren't. No one ever said the word "all" and the numbers only confirm my point. Right now theres about 200 viewers in the OT section and a hundred in the programming section. If even half those were not involved in MMO thats not even 5% of the number in the main forum, the marketplace sections, SEO etc.

              So like it or not deny it or not MMO its what this forum is mostly about. The OT doesn't even really count given the amount of people who are retired from doing anything else but keeping up with old friends. No way FL bought the place for that group.
              Wrong - most of us in OT are not retired. Your presumptions are so off the mark, it makes me laugh.
              The OT people are actually some of the most intelligent people I've had the pleasure of knowing - and most of us are still making a living online, offline or both -

              Mike, do you personally know everyone in this forum? Of course not. Neither do I.

              So...

              Unless we have access to the information that can show us every single occupation of every single member of this forum, our opinion of what types of people this forum consists of, is just that - an opinion. Which means nothing - because opinions are not based on facts.

              Peace out
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              • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

                Mike, do you personally know everyone in this forum?
                He relies on those ridiculous sweeping generalizations to bolster whatever point he's trying to make.

                Retired? Hardly. That's a long ways off! I suspect the vast majority of regular posters here in the OT are still working.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                  He relies on those ridiculous sweeping generalizations to bolster whatever point he's trying to make..

                  Cali please go look up what the word generalization means. If saying WF is predominantly about MMO is what you consider generalization then you clearly do not know the meaning of the word.

                  This is what I was referring to. Some people are in so deep and have been here so long that they cannot see what outsiders can see easily. The point needs no bolstering. Its a self evident fact to the non self hypnotized.

                  WF is predominantly and overwhelmingly a MMO forum and yep its most predominant MMO "niche" is MMO by offering MMO.

                  I suspect anyone who buys or bought WF knows this and doesn't believe the fantasy land that some here do that the WSO section was an aberration to what this forum was about.

                  My "point" is that difference in perception can easily be a reason why people outside of being members here for years might not see quite the decline in "quality" as some claim there is.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
                    Mike, fyi I have never put down new people unless they are blatant spammers (then I report them) or called anyone who frequents other sections of this forum less intelligent then those who hang out in OT - so I have no idea what the heck you're talking about.

                    this thread was a great thread until you had to go and start making it personal by saying I'm in denial.
                    I'm not in denial about anything - least of all about a frigging forum - for God's sake - I have more important things to worry about.

                    In my opinion, for what it's worth, though this forum is about MMO - it doesn't mean the majority of the members are actually involved in the MMO niches - because none of us really knows for sure what anyone here actually does unless we know them personally.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

                Wrong - most of us in OT are not retired. Your presumptions are so off the mark,
                Sorry should have spelt it out for you Karen, Retired in reference to this forum (ahem...what we were talking about and what the thread is about?). many people are already on record saying they have no intention of doing anything else on this forum but hanging out in the OT section. They've effectively retired from being meaningful posters

                it makes me laugh.
                welcome to my world...case in point


                Unless we have access to the information that can show us every single occupation of every single member of this forum, our opinion of what types of people this forum consists of, is just that - an opinion. Which means nothing - because opinions are not based on facts.
                lol......did you actually type that with a straight face? I have to know what everyone does for an occupation to say MMO is the what WF is mostly about?

                Thats comedy gold.... (and textbook denial)

                The OT people are actually some of the most intelligent people I've had the pleasure of knowing
                Yeah I now. I've heard the self congratulations many times and how the newbs and WF members who don't hang out in the OT section are nowhere near as intelligent and why the upstairs people are sillier than the downstairs etc etc........blah blah pat ourselves on the back while putting down new members

                I guess the proof is all the threads down here that just oooze with superior intelligence. I hear ya.
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          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
            Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

            Mike, I deleted my post for a reason.
            you're right - I don't see things the same way as most people.

            You are an altruistic optimist.... cause oriented and loyal. Nothin wrong with that. You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything. I still believe too...newbies don't stay newbies forever. Maybe these are just growing pains. We have a generation gap here, but if the forum hangs on long enough it's all bound to catch up to itself and balance out.


            You only lose when you quit, as long as they stay in the game, it could get better. I'm sure our criticisms hurt the new owners, but if I were them, there would be nothing I could do about doomsayers... I would be forced to bury my head in the sand and just keep moving forward, because they don't empower me... and I have to protect myself and stay empowered...even though I might care about their feelings, I cant do them no good if I jump in and agree that Im going downhill.


            Keep the faith. It's refreshing to some of us.


            Ps. As far as heeding peoples suggestions... Have you ever tried to heed 750,000 suggestions? Lol Im sure they are trying.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              I wonder if FL bought the forum for the main section group it has now...I just looked at the first page of main section threads - and almost half show the most recent answer is by one person. Not a new member but someone who only began participating this year and is posting 25-50 posts a day.

              There are 3-4 of these folks who have been posting in almost every main forum thread. The posts aren't bad - but mostly 1-2 liners and very generic. If you go into a dozen main forum threads, chances are you will see the same 3-4 people posting in each of them. If they are trying to help, more power to them.

              I'm not saying it's right or wrong - but with the numbers we supposedly have here...a bit odd so many threads are answered by the same very few people. If they were new, I'd just think they were gung ho - but these are well-aged WF accounts.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                I wonder if FL bought the forum for the main section group it has now...I just looked at the first page of main section threads - and almost half show the most recent answer is by one person. Not a new member but someone who only began participating this year and is posting 25-50 posts a day.

                There are 3-4 of these folks who have been posting in almost every main forum thread. The posts aren't bad - but mostly 1-2 liners and very generic. If you go into a dozen main forum threads, chances are you will see the same 3-4 people posting in each of them. If they are trying to help, more power to them.
                It's the diehards who still believe that contributing and building a reputation will still reap rewards here.
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              • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                If they are trying to help, more power to them.
                It they're the two I'm noticing, I'd wager their primary motive is sig link exposure.

                I mentioned in another thread yesterday that it would be very interesting to see what would happen if "thanks" and signatures were removed for a week. Would be interesting to see who keeps posting (especially to "help" others) and who disappears...
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  • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
    Can't blame people for leaving , the mods need to use a bit of commonsense once in a while, spending 10 minutes writing a reply to a post where someone asked for help, then getting your post removed because you say something like.. Check out this video it will give you more info.. Is totally different to a 1 line post saying check out this video

    Attitudes like that makes people want to say screw you WF!
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