The IRS Seized $107,000 From This North Carolina Man's Bank Account

9 years ago

Yes, structuring is a crime. It was originally created as a way to add on charges to alleged drug dealers dealing with lots of cash, but prosecutors (especially in NC) have gone after people for the crime of not depositing more than $10k at a time.

For those who don't know, if you deposit over $10,000 cash in a US bank, there is a form you have to fill out that states where you got the money from. If you decide to make two $5,000 deposits instead and avoid filling out the form, that's called "structuring."

Welcome to the land of the free!

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Kay King 9 years ago

This is not the only person this has happened to - but the public seems to be asleep when it comes to this kind of govt abuse.

What usually happens is someone has regular deposits of $9,000 and they assume the person is trying to avoid the 10,001 that triggers paperwork and reporting. It's abuse of small businesses and it's been happening a lot in the past few years.
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Jamie Thompson

9 years ago

Complete organized criminals. Can't wait until the IRS is taken down.

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TLTheLiberator 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Jamie Thompson

Complete organized criminals. Can't wait until the IRS is taken down.

Don't hold your breath.
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seasoned

9 years ago

Well TL, you don't seem to care one whit about the twon, neighborhood, or the employees which are now in danger.

Steve

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TLTheLiberator 9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Well TL, you don't seem to care one whit about the twon, neighborhood, or the employees which are now in danger.

Steve

I simply told Jamie Thompson to not hold his breath waiting for the IRS to be taken down and once again I'm telling you get a gal and get the help you desperately need.
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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

That's just outright government theft. Deliberately targeting anyone who makes that type of deposit whether or not they are suspected of any crime.

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AprilCT

9 years ago

It would seem to me a much better use of their time to actually go after real criminals. Going after normal business people protecting their incoming cash in a bank account seems to send a message that doing biz above board isn't worth the hassle and worry you will be targeted.

I would bet that insurance companies probably have rules that require a business can't leave a large amount of cash on the premises after business hours, or they won't insure for a burglary if you break their terms.

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MikeAmbrosio

9 years ago

Originally Posted by AprilCT

It would seem to me a much better use of their time to actually go after real criminals. Going after normal business people protecting their incoming cash in a bank account seems to send a message that doing biz above board isn't worth the hassle and worry you will be targeted.

I would bet that insurance companies probably have rules that require a business can't leave a large amount of cash on the premises after business hours, or they won't insure for a burglary if you break their terms.

Going after criminals is probably a much smaller revenue stream than going after small business owners who have no clue about this sort of thing.

This is ALL about money. No matter how much they try to make these people feel like criminals.

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AprilCT

9 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Going after criminals is probably a much smaller revenue stream than going after small business owners who have no clue about this sort of thing.

This is ALL about money. No matter how much they try to make these people feel like criminals.

Hi Mike, my thoughts are that it is probably a lot more difficult to go after real criminals that would shoot first and ask no questions later, than unsuspecting and legal biz owners just doing what is needed to run their businesses.

Legal biz owners are just easier pickins.

When you aren't doing something wrong, then why would you even expect to be targeted?

And, not only about the money, but about looking good on reports for for the week or month "catching" people. That kind of stuff makes my head hurt.

One of our long-time local Chinese restaurants won't let you use a credit card for, at least it used to be, only under $10. That was a few years ago, so it might be even higher now.

That credit costs them to offer it to customers, especially if you are just stopping by for a take-out soup or some egg rolls. (Hahaha, we aren't big or regular spenders there, so we paid cash.)

They are also open for lunch, so....probably a bunch of people paid cash. I'm not sure if that is in effect now, but with a choice of a nearby McDonalds, Wendy's or Chinese food, I'm betting a lot of votes for the latter.

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Cali16

9 years ago

Originally Posted by AprilCT

I would bet that insurance companies probably have rules that require a business can't leave a large amount of cash on the premises after business hours, or they won't insure for a burglary if you break their terms.

That's a good point, April. I would imagine many small businesses bring in less than $10K in cash per day, but want to deposit it daily for security and insurance reasons. Seems like a catch22 here. Yet another abusive tactic of the IRS.

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SteveJohnson

9 years ago

I can imagine some people here are applauding this story, especially the ones who want the government to regulate anything that moves. How dare he think he can evade the clutches of the reglaters!

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SteveJohnson

9 years ago

And people look at me in shock when I say I don't trust the government.

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yukon

Banned 9 years ago

Everlast - I Get By - YouTube

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

During a February 2015 hearing on civil asset forfeiture, IRS Commissioner John Koskinen was asked broadly about McLellan's case, in which there were no criminal charges pending or illegal activity conducted.

"If that case exists, then it's not following the policy," Koskinen told lawmakers on the House Ways and Means Oversight Subcommittee.

Seems like a clear case of the IRS not following policy. I hope he wins in court.

By the way, if I was him, I would be pretty pissed at the bank and bank teller who told him to deposit smaller amounts.

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Kay King

9 years ago

How dare he think he can evade the clutches of the reglaters!

And that's the problem - some people will think "where there's smoke, there's fire".

This is a cash grab and the businesses affected have been small, privately owned and often family run businesses. Many of the people I've read about have been in business for years or even generations.

The law is 10,001 for a reason. That was the limit set for reporting and for giving out add'l info. People have tried to avoid that trigger limit but if a business has been making the same deposits day after day or week after week....IRS should be smart enough to see that.

If $5k deposits are a problem....change the law!

It's like having cops pull you over when you are driving at 68 mph - because "you appear to be trying to avoid violating the speed limit".

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

And that's the problem - some people will think "where there's smoke, there's fire".

This is a cash grab and the businesses affected have been small, privately owned and often family run businesses. Many of the people I've read about have been in business for years or even generations.

The law is 10,001 for a reason. That was the limit set for reporting and for giving out add'l info. People have tried to avoid that trigger limit but if a business has been making the same deposits day after day or week after week....IRS should be smart enough to see that.

If $5k deposits are a problem....change the law!

It's like having cops pull you over when you are driving at 68 mph - because "you appear to be trying to avoid violating the speed limit".

I'm surprised it is still TEN! They USED to have a rule saying all deposits of $10,000 or over had to be microfiched. They reduced that to $5,000. There was talk of $3,000! Anyway, the banks found it so difficult to do it selectively that they ended up doing EVERYTHING! SERIOUSLY, and I said this before! I once had a bank STEAL over $600(not 60,000 but just over 6 HUNDRED)! The reason why? I had a statement FROM THEM saying I deposited it! I had a RECEIPT from them saying I deposited it! I deposited it at a tellers window! I had a statement showing that they REVERSED the deposit, with NO explanation! WHY did they do it?!?!?!? I ASKED! Their reason was they couldn't find the microfiche for that check, so I obviously deposited an empty envelope in the ATM! I got in a huff, went down there, and pointed out the very teller that helped me, at the window, and that is the ONLY reason they "provisionally credited" my account. That was about 20 years ago, by the way!

Things have gotten THAT bad!

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Seems like a clear case of the IRS not following policy. I hope he wins in court.

By the way, if I was him, I would be pretty pissed at the bank and bank teller who told him to deposit smaller amounts.

He really should win in court but they should have not bothered him in the first place. He should not settle with them and...

His congressperson and senator should get involved - especially determining exactly who gave the order, and with the publicity, it should make the IRS follow their own rules and reduce this type of crap to a minimum.

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Floyd Fisher

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

He really should win in court but they should have not bothered him in the first place. He should not settle with them and...

His congressperson and senator should get involved - especially determining exactly who gave the order, and with the publicity, it should make the IRS follow their own rules and reduce this type of crap to a minimum.

They already are, and the IRS has admitted they are in the wrong....and what good has it done?

And if you think the judge is going to do anything, I have some swamp land in Saudi Arabia for sale.......

Like I said earlier, stuff like this is why people put money in foreign bank accounts...the IRS can't touch what courts have no jurisdiction over.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

Like I said earlier, stuff like this is why people put money in foreign bank accounts...the IRS can't touch what courts have no jurisdiction over.

Yes they can, and they HAVE! HOW? EASY! They threaten the company and/or financial institutions with sanctions! That is how they even got SWITZERLAND to break their own laws!!!

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Yes they can, and they HAVE! HOW? EASY!

They threaten the company and/or financial institutions with sanctions! That is how they even got SWITZERLAND to break their own laws!!!

Steve

Tax avoidance is one thing and tax evasion is another as all U.S. citizens are cheated when that happens and only the most irresponsible fridge elements of society - IMHO, are rooting for the cheaters.

I'm all for us, via the feds using whatever legal and ethical means necessary to rein in the evasion.

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Floyd Fisher

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Tax avoidance is one thing and tax evasion is another as all U.S. citizens are cheated when that happens and only the most irresponsible fridge elements of society - IMHO, are rooting for the cheaters.

I'm all for us, via the feds using whatever legal and ethical means necessary to rein in the evasion.

Nobody is evading or avoiding taxes....the number one use of foreign accounts is preventing abuses like the OP is talking about, and lawsuit proofing.

That's why then Bush put out tax amnesty on foreign accounts, almost none of the money came back....because it wasn't there to evade taxes in the first place.

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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

Nobody is evading or avoiding taxes....the number one use of foreign accounts is preventing abuses like the OP is talking about, and lawsuit proofing.

That's why then Bush put out tax amnesty on foreign accounts, almost none of the money came back....because it wasn't there to evade taxes in the first place.

If you say so Floyd.

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Floyd Fisher

9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Yes they can, and they HAVE! HOW? EASY! They threaten the company and/or financial institutions with sanctions! That is how they even got SWITZERLAND to break their own laws!!!

Steve

Only for tax purposes. You do realize the IRS is forbidden to share information with any other agency?

You cannot seize what judges have no jurisdiction over.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

They already are, and the IRS has admitted they are in the wrong....and what good has it done?

And if you think the judge is going to do anything, I have some swamp land in Saudi Arabia for sale.......

Like I said earlier, stuff like this is why people put money in foreign bank accounts...the IRS can't touch what courts have no jurisdiction over.

Ask UBS if the US government can touch them.

As for your swamp land ...keep it

Public Pressure Forces IRS To Give Back Money To Civil Forfeiture Victim [VIDEO] | The Daily Caller

The IRS Folds, Returns 100% of Lyndon McLellan's Money | Cato @ Liberty

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Floyd Fisher

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Ask UBS if the US government can touch them.

As for your swamp land ...keep it

Public Pressure Forces IRS To Give Back Money To Civil Forfeiture Victim [VIDEO] | The Daily Caller

The IRS Folds, Returns 100% of Lyndon McLellan's Money | Cato @ Liberty

Again, this is the IRS and it's for tax purposes. The IRS is forbidden to share info with any other government agency.

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HeySal 9 years ago

This kind of crap is just going to keep getting worse until people start dealing with their reps as the employees of Citizens instead of letting ourselves be walked on like factory farmed slaved idiots. This is another aspect of fascism. Likin' it yet?
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seasoned

9 years ago

BTW did you know there is a limit as to the amount of gold you can fly with?

Steve

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GlobalTrader 9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

BTW did you know there is a limit as to the amount of gold you can fly with?

Steve

This applies to cash as well -

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...o-or-leave-the
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Floyd Fisher

9 years ago

Stuff like this is why people put money in foreign bank accounts.

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bizgrower

9 years ago

This guy got his hotel back with the help of the Institute for Justice,
the same people helping McClellan:

Victim of Civil Asset Forfeiture Reflects on His Fight

https://www.change.org/p/give-back-l...lellan-s-money

North Carolina Civil Forfeiture | Institute for Justice

Strange how they name the money as the Defendant:

"The Parties in the Case

The government’s civil forfeiture action is titled United States v. $107,702.66 in United States Currency. That strange name is the result of a legal fiction in civil forfeiture actions, in which the government sues your money instead of suing you. As a result, the money is the defendant; the United States is the Plaintiff; and Lyndon appears in the case as a Claimant “defending” his right to his own money and asking for its return"

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

Strange how they name the money as the Defendant:

"The Parties in the Case

The government's civil forfeiture action is titled United States v. $107,702.66 in United States Currency. That strange name is the result of a legal fiction in civil forfeiture actions, in which the government sues your money instead of suing you. As a result, the money is the defendant; the United States is the Plaintiff; and Lyndon appears in the case as a Claimant "defending" his right to his own money and asking for its return"

I guess now besides corporations being considered people, money is also. I wonder if money will be allowed to vote next? Oh. Wait. That's already the case. Lol

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The IRS Seized $107,000 From This North Carolina Man's Bank Account

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