Are homeless people genuinely in need?

by Zodiax
97 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
Are homeless people genuinely in need?


Living in NYC I see a bunch of people who are perfectly capable of working, who just chose not to.

There are so many resources for free help and work that it just boggles my mind how people just jump from train to train and beg, and sit on the sidewalk all day and loiter.


I honestly think this country is too lenient with these people. I think the unemployment rate would cut in half if we stopped giving these parasites ways to live off the system and pretend to be incompetent.
  • Profile picture of the author Dr3a
    I think everybody is capable of working if they put they're minds to it, but i also think everybody has a different outlook on how they wanna live they're lives, hence...having problems and blaming it on everybody else.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213358].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Upwardmode
    Life can take it twists and Turns and Make those that could fend for themselves look Lazy... So If it is impressed in your heart to help a homeless person, Just do it and move on. God rewards greatly.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213362].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

    I honestly think this country is too lenient with these people. I think the unemployment rate would cut in half if we stopped giving these parasites ways to live off the system and pretend to be incompetent.
    And the Humanitarian of the Year Award goes to the person that has never heard of mental-illness, alcoholism or drug-addiction.

    I wish I could have grown up in your world. I could have worked while being affected by all three.

    Cheers. - Frank
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213443].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I don't think there is a "homeless type" for me to pass judgment on. We closed thousands of mental health hospitals because we decided it was "cruel" (i.e., too expensive) to keep the mentally ill confined. Many ended up on the street.

      I've never been homeless but I came within a couple days of it many years ago. It was a combination of bad luck, bad timing, and personal trauma and the logistics of living "out there" was terrifying. I was able to pull myself up - not everyone can do that. I have never been on any form of public assistance and yet I'm glad it's there for those who need it.

      There are people with addictions and problems I can't even begin to imagine coping with. There are also people who "work" the system - and everyone knows it. The trick, as a society, is to provide for those who need help while identifying those who want free rides. Not easy and better to err on the side of providing assistance.
      Signature
      Every child needs a pet because every family needs an optimist

      Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213474].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

      And the Humanitarian of the Year Award goes to the person that has never heard of mental-illness, alcoholism or drug-addiction.

      I wish I could have grown up in your world. I could have worked while being affected by all three.

      Cheers. - Frank
      Mental illness ? Geesh, that's not a good excuse. If they are moving and have a blood pressure then they
      should work *extreme sarcasm*

      After all look at you, you are able to work and drive around in a convertible Beamer. Thats a about as good of a testament you will get concerning mental illness
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10214694].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
        Banned
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        After all look at you, you are able to work and drive around in a convertible Beamer.
        Actually, I drive a Bimmer. A Beamer, as any purist knows, is a BMW motorcycle. :-)
        Thats a about as good of a testament you will get concerning mental illness
        In my younger years my various mental conditions and personality disorders were a detriment to making my way in life. As I got older I realized that you must use what you have at your disposal to create the life that you wish to have. The secret to living with mental illness is learning how to cope, which can take decades.

        My bipolar issues are fairly unique as I never get depressed but I can spend weeks at a time in a manic phase during which I will initiate massive projects that anyone in their right mind would deem foolhardy with no chance of being able to be completed. I rarely complete those projects, but I learn a tremendous amount along the way, and thoroughly enjoy the process. They also give me increased confidence to tackle even larger projects in the future. Self-doubt is not an issue for me. You'll never hear the words, "That can't be done," pass my lips. While it may be a fact, I'm willing to die trying to prove that it can be done, if I decide to do it.

        I credit my naked narcissism for almost all of the success that I have achieved in life. It provides me with unbounded self-confidence, an air of authority that encourages others to follow my lead and do my bidding and an unshakable belief that I am right, most of the time. It is the genesis of my two most important personality traits that have enabled to plow through life's most daunting obstacles as though they were a wall of toothpicks - an indomitable will and an indefatigable spirit. I wouldn't trade my narcissism for anything in the world as it provides me with the psychological advantage necessary for me to achieve any goal in life that I pursue. It's all I have to work with, so I maximize its positive aspects.

        Had I been additionally blessed with physical beauty to compliment my incredible intellect and charming personality, I could have ruled the world - had that been my goal.

        Laugh if you choose. I'm telling you the truth. I revel in my mental illness. :-)

        Cheers. - Frank
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10215595].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

          Actually, I drive a Bimmer. A Beamer, as any purist knows, is a BMW motorcycle. :-)
          In my younger years my various mental conditions and personality disorders were a detriment to making my way in life. As I got older I realized that you must use what you have at your disposal to create the life that you wish to have. The secret to living with mental illness is learning how to cope, which can take decades.

          My bipolar issues are fairly unique as I never get depressed but I can spend weeks at a time in a manic phase during which I will initiate massive projects that anyone in their right mind would deem foolhardy with no chance of being able to be completed. I rarely complete those projects, but I learn a tremendous amount along the way, and thoroughly enjoy the process. They also give me increased confidence to tackle even larger projects in the future. Self-doubt is not an issue for me. You'll never hear the words, "That can't be done," pass my lips. While it may be a fact, I'm willing to die trying to prove that it can be done, if I decide to do it.

          I credit my naked narcissism for almost all of the success that I have achieved in life. It provides me with unbounded self-confidence, an air of authority that encourages others to follow my lead and do my bidding and an unshakable belief that I am right, most of the time. It is the genesis of my two most important personality traits that have enabled to plow through life's most daunting obstacles as though they were a wall of toothpicks - an indomitable will and an indefatigable spirit. I wouldn't trade my narcissism for anything in the world as it provides me with the psychological advantage necessary for me to achieve any goal in life that I pursue. It's all I have to work with, so I maximize its positive aspects.

          Had I been additionally blessed with physical beauty to compliment my incredible intellect and charming personality, I could have ruled the world - had that been my goal.

          Laugh if you choose. I'm telling you the truth. I revel in my mental illness. :-)

          Cheers. - Frank
          Sorry Frank I really wasn't intending to try to hit close to home with my remarks.

          Now I think I do kind of recall you talking about your journey with mental illness in the past here.

          But when I was writing my post about you in this Thread I was referring to you in a Steve Martin-esque tone of
          your " one wild and crazy guy
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10215962].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
            Banned
            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

            Sorry Frank I really wasn't intending to try to hit close to home with my remarks.
            No offense taken as your post did not strike me as the least bit negative. Although I love to feign outrage, it's pretty difficult to get me riled. :-)
            Now I think I do kind of recall you talking about your journey with mental illness in the past here.
            Yeah, I should dig up those threads to see if I have made any therapeutic progress. lol
            But when I was writing my post about you in this Thread I was referring to you in a Steve Martin-esque tone of your " one wild and crazy guy
            Crazy, yes. Wild - not so much. I'm rather sedate in my old age, which is a new experience for me and one that my therapist is quite happy about.

            Cheers. - Frank
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10216010].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
              Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

              No offense taken as your post did not strike me as the least bit negative. Although I love to feign outrage, it's pretty difficult to get me riled. :-)
              Yeah, I should dig up those threads to see if I have made any therapeutic progress. lol
              Crazy, yes. Wild - not so much. I'm rather sedate in my old age, which is a new experience for me and one that my therapist is quite happy about.

              Cheers. - Frank


              What meds do you take,


              I take 80mg of Prozac.
              Signature

              'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
              -Muhammad Ali

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10216144].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

                What meds do you take, I take 80mg of Prozac.
                I stopped taking all of my psychotropic meds around 6 years ago. They were ruining what was left of my life as the numbing effect was horrifying. For the first 2 years after I stopped I wouyld cry a lot for no reason that I could ascertain. When friends would ask why I would rather cry for no apparent reason, at very inopportune times, than stay on my meds, I would explain to them that it was fine for me to cry, since it also freed-up the same neural pathways that would once again allow me to laugh.

                The crying stopped after a couple of years, but the laughter is still with me. I only cry now when I think about my departed dog or see an animal in distress. I'm content to cry on those occasions. I watch Faux News so I can piss myself from laughing, every single day. :-)

                You can never learn to cope if you hide behind any medication.

                Cheers. - Frank
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10216182].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
                  Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post


                  You can never learn to cope if you hide behind any medication.

                  Cheers. - Frank
                  Well, considering I have been hospitalized twice while on medication, I will have to disagree.
                  Signature

                  'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
                  -Muhammad Ali

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10216632].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

                    Well, considering I have been hospitalized twice while on medication, I will have to disagree.
                    You have every right to do so, but that does not make you correct on the issue. :-)

                    Cheers. - Frank
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10216671].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author frankhill
                      Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                      You have every right to do so, but that does not make you correct on the issue. :-)

                      Cheers. - Frank




                      Agreed.


                      People need meds.
                      Sometime they think they are "better" or back to normal


                      They are not ........................when they are off their meds




                      Tough issue
                      Tough issue to understand
                      Truly tough issue to explain


                      If you have no experience, please provide no opinion.


                      Thank You
                      Frank
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10216725].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by frankhill View Post

                        If you have no experience, please provide no opinion.
                        Fifty years of therapy and 40 years of medications. You know where you can shove your "no experience."

                        Unbelievable.

                        Cheers. - Frank
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10216760].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post


                  You can never learn to cope if you hide behind any medication.

                  Cheers. - Frank
                  That was a profound truth.

                  Medication may truly help. But then, you aren't coping anymore.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10217788].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

    Are homeless people genuinely in need?


    Living in NYC I see a bunch of people who are perfectly capable of working, who just chose not to.

    There are so many resources for free help and work that it just boggles my mind how people just jump from train to train and beg, and sit on the sidewalk all day and loiter.


    I honestly think this country is too lenient with these people. I think the unemployment rate would cut in half if we stopped giving these parasites ways to live off the system and pretend to be incompetent.
    Or, take Wall Street and stop giving these parasites ways to live off the system and pretend to be competent.


    Fixed it for you...
    Signature
    Serious about Print on Demand? Discover how YOU can join my FREE exclusive secret alliance
    Plus how to get my Print on Demand Treasure Maps for FREE
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213466].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Maybe if we didn't ship all our jobs overseas or give them to illegal immigrants, you might have a point ... but not much of one because there are many factors to consider.

      Consider the closing of the state mental institutions and the massive dumping of mentally ill people onto the streets.

      Consider the economic decline where many people who had homes, jobs, and stuff, lost their jobs and ended up homeless.

      Consider the toll that alcoholism and drug addiction take on people's lives and the difficulty and expense of trying to get into a rehab.

      I would imagine that for every just plain old lazy lout that simply prefers street living, there are dozens if not more that are not homeless by choice.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213711].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bojan92
    Homeless people i think that are people who had a lot of problems in their lives. They were left on the street. Most of them can work but nobody would give a homeless person a job. There are a lot of free job position, if somebody wants to work he will find a job. It is their life, and their decision so help if you can if not carry on your way
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213487].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MelanieLM
    Generalizations don't work.

    Many homeless people are mentally ill, drug or alcohol addicted. Some enjoy the freedom the lifestyle gives them. Some are "normal" people who had bad luck. From what I hear, it is hard to just go out and get a job... and not having an address, telephone number, access to a shower or clean, professional clothes would make it much, much more difficult.

    Some of the people out there begging have houses, cars, etc. and just make more money begging for a few hours every day than they would at a normal job.

    If there was a solution, we probably would've figured it out by now. The problem is there isn't one-size-fits all. Actually handling each homeless person (approximately 580,000 by latest count I could find) on a case by case basis costs too much.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213495].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

      And the Humanitarian of the Year Award goes to the person that has never heard of mental-illness, alcoholism or drug-addiction.

      I wish I could have grown up in your world. I could have worked while being affected by all three.

      Cheers. - Frank
      Yes, mental illness, a lot of service men coming back from a war, couldn't hold down a job, so they fall through the cracks!

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213676].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by MelanieLM View Post

      Some of the people out there begging have houses, cars, etc. and just make more money begging for a few hours every day than they would at a normal job.
      I would wager that this would be an infinitesimally small percentage of the people in question. Of course, when discovered, they get all the attention, which never helps the situation, but rather gives an excuse to those who would sooner see people die in the streets rather than have a penny of their 'hard-earned' money go to helping anyone for any reason.

      Cheers. - Frank
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213735].message }}
  • Whatever the system, people are gonna work it.

    Always been true, always will be.

    Question is, do we allow the anger we feel about leeches to boil over and scald everyone else?

    View right now (kinda worldwide) is, yes we do.

    We screw down and **** on everyone till we fix the honey suckers.

    Cos the leeches choose this, and we gotta help 'em unchoose.

    But that overlooks the choice deal.

    We choose to play ball, and the leeches choose not to.

    Both are empowered options, unlike being unable to choose.

    If you've always had options, or been able to generate them, many kinds of powerlessness can appear to be a choice. That's how most stuff works over at the Neurotwango Mind Warriors, or whenever Seth Godin illiminates the world c/o his ever open sphincter, but there are plenty of reason why some people are unable to choose.

    Like most people, I wanna stomp on the leeches.

    But no way am I opening fire indiscriminately.

    Even my aim ain't that keen.
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff together.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213721].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      Even my aim ain't that keen.
      I have no friggin' idea what the hell that rant meant - but I have a feeling that if I did, I would agree with every word of it. lol

      Cheers. - Frank
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213740].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      But no way am I opening fire indiscriminately.

      Even my aim ain't that keen.
      A wise sheriff knows when to shoot and when to talk.
      Signature

      "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213751].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Some are genuinely in need and should be treated as humanely as possible.

    I lived in a van by the river and in the mountains, but that's what I got for trying to become self-employed in a foolish manner. I just treated it like an adventure and it was not too bad actually,
    even the 20 below nights. A down sleeping bags, a regular sleeping bag, and a lot of cheap down jackets. (Eddie Bauer clearance is wonderful.)

    Some know how to cheat the system by only getting enough reported income so they can still get local and Federal benefits, and still go buy 55" TVs and so on.

    Certainly room for improvement in the system.

    Dan
    Signature

    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213744].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      I lived in a van by the river
      Were we neighbors?

      Cheers. - Frank
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213900].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        Were we neighbors?

        Cheers. - Frank
        Don'tcha remember? We traded spots every two weeks so the Forest rangers would leave us be.
        And the private land owner said no to two vans.
        Signature

        "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213915].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          Don'tcha remember? We traded spots every two weeks so the Forest rangers would leave us be.
          And the private land owner said no to two vans.

          Frank's apparently blocked out the times you both stripped down and snuggled to preserve body heat.


          (I'm guessing you were the big spoon.)
          Signature

          If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213938].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            Frank's apparently blocked out the times you both stripped down and snuggled to preserve body heat.


            (I'm guessing you were the big spoon.)
            I just pushed the unthanks button.
            Signature

            "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213962].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            Frank's apparently blocked out the times you both stripped down and snuggled to preserve body heat.
            Film at 11.

            Cheers. - Frank
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10214109].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          Don'tcha remember? We traded spots every two weeks so the Forest rangers would leave us be.
          And the private land owner said no to two vans.
          Whitacre used to take over your spot's on a regular basis in his clapped out transit. Every time you saw him there you would say: Claude Van......Dam!
          Signature

          Where ever you go, there you are.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213943].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

            Whitacre used to take over your spot's on a regular basis in his clapped out transit. Every time you saw him there you would say: Claude Van......Dam!
            I imagine two years ago, you thought, "Claude Van Dam...someday I'll be able to use it...some day".

            Merry Christmas.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10214014].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              I imagine two years ago, you thought, "Claude Van Dam...someday I'll be able to use it...some day".

              Merry Christmas.
              I recycle a lot of my stuff but on this one I claim Contextual Differences your Honor.

              When Riffle was in their spot of course they said: Dan Van...Dam!

              And of course when I was there it was Lan Van...Dam!

              Barrel Scraping sounds
              Signature

              Where ever you go, there you are.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10214270].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
            Banned
            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

            Whitacre used to take over your spot's on a regular basis in his clapped out transit. Every time you saw him there you would say: Claude Van......Dam!
            A new low has been reached. That, by itself is quite impressive.

            Cheers. - Frank
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10214107].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Some are genuinely in need and should be treated as humanely as possible.

      I lived in a van by the river and in the mountains, but that's what I got for trying to become self-employed in a foolish manner. I just treated it like an adventure and it was not too bad actually,
      even the 20 below nights. A down sleeping bags, a regular sleeping bag, and a lot of cheap down jackets. (Eddie Bauer clearance is wonderful.)

      Some know how to cheat the system by only getting enough reported income so they can still get local and Federal benefits, and still go buy 55" TVs and so on.

      Certainly room for improvement in the system.

      Dan
      Been there, done that on purpose.Lived in my van for a long time when I moved to Mass. Finally rented an apartment with a couple of guys only because they needed a third person to help pay the rent. Still spent most nights in the van. When my brother retired he packed up his canoe and set up camp on an island in the Mohawk river. When Encon would throw him off one island he would pack up and go to another one. I've met and known people that were homeless by choice. In the old days they were just called hobos. When I lived in Tampa there was a bar were the "homeless" would hang. My friend Spacer and I would go there and buy them drinks for their stories. Many were there because of circumstances beyond their control. But many also were there by choice. They viewed their lives as being the ultimate of living free.
      Signature

      Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
      Getting old ain't for sissy's
      As you are I was, as I am you will be
      You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10215893].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        here in the Niagara region of Ontario - there are very few full-time jobs, so people are forced to take on part-time jobs that pay minimum wage - there are a lot of college students here so many of the cheaper apartments go to them, so everyone else has a really hard time finding affordable housing.

        Yes, along with the mentally-ill homeless, we have the homeless who simply can't afford the housing that's available - so rather than turn my nose up and pass judgement on any homeless person, I would rather give them something to eat or offer them warm blankets or clothes.

        I've learned a long time ago that things are not always what they appear to be - and everyone deserves a chance at a dignified life, imho.
        Signature
        ---------------
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10215949].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author frankhill
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Some are genuinely in need and should be treated as humanely as possible.


      Dan


      I agree. However, a lot of homeless are truly "crazy" and dangerous. I speak from experience. I truly do not know what to do with the"crazy" (harmless) group. They need to be somehow protected from the "dangerous" ones. The are intermingled.




      Don't be fooled, some homeless are truly predators and WILL HURT YOU.


      PLEASE BE CAREFUL


      Frank
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10216657].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    In America, people are being indoctrinated to hate the poor instead of going after those who are causing the poverty. Out here a LOT of our homeless ARE working. The price of housing is just unaffordabley high compared to wages.

    Middle class America thinks that anyone can just walk into a public service office and get whatever they need. That is pure bunk. There's a lot of people in need that do not "qualify" for help. Take me - I'm 60, female, no kids. If I were to walk into a public service office, the most I'd get right now is a few bucks in food stamps....not enough to eat every day of the month, but a week or two of food. I would not qualify for housing - and if I did, their waiting lists are now years long. In Oregon where I just moved from, social services give people tents. Literally. There's a whole tent city just East of Bend of working homeless. They can't let the low paying jobs go because it's their only support, but with even studio apartments starting at around $700 a month, those 20 hr a week, $9 an hour jobs that are all that's available up there now don't pay you to live under a roof. They do disqualify you for forms of aid, though.

    We have a severe poverty problem in this country...........and it's not coming from those that need help - it's coming from the greed and criminal corruption levels at the top of the heaps. Fire at them, not the fallen.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10213934].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Really, really too scared to click.
    Signature

    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10214192].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
      Dan is homeless.


      I wonder If Claude will let him sleep next to him in bed, he would save a-lot on heat.
      Signature

      'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
      -Muhammad Ali

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10214204].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

        Dan is homeless.


        I wonder If Claude will let him sleep next to him in bed, he would save a-lot on heat.
        Sorry, punch line fails
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10214695].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author UnkwnUsr
    I think there is an underlying issue in most cases depression, addiction, personality disorder. Even those who really could work and have decided to opt out of society probably have some underlying mental issues. I don't think any normal well adjusted person would choose to be homeless.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10214236].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by UnkwnUsr View Post

      I don't think any normal well adjusted person would choose to be homeless.
      Well-adjusted in who's eyes? Society's, yours, a psychiatrist's? 'Well-adjusted' is a relative term.

      Cheers. - Frank
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10214252].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
      I honestly think this country is too lenient with these people. I think the unemployment rate would cut in half if we stopped giving these parasites ways to live off the system and pretend to be incompetent.
      So, anyone who is homeless is a "parasite" in your mind? Wow! Here's a news flash for you - the people that are most likely to be "living off the system" aren't usually homeless. Many homeless individuals have fallen so far through the cracks that they struggle to get the help / access the services they need in order to get out of their situation.

      I saw a lot of homeless people when I worked in a large inner-city ER. They were struggling just to get through each day, and the vast majority weren't connected to any ongoing services, so they were hardly "parasites".

      People can end up homeless for all sorts of reasons, and not just mental illness or addiction, although those are two of the most common reasons. Many people live paycheck to paycheck, struggling to make ends meet. Sometimes all it takes is the right combination of unfortunate events to put them on the streets. Add depression or anxiety to the mix (which can be triggered or exacerbated by overwhelming life events) and getting one's life back on track can become extremely difficult.

      I think everybody is capable of working if they put they're minds to it,
      One of the most moronic statements in this thread.
      Signature
      If you don't face your fears, the only thing you'll ever see is what's in your comfort zone. ~Anne McClain, astronaut
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10214278].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    ^^^
    I have an employee working for me again. I never thought I would rehire her because she was
    a lot to handle. She has since quit the alcohol and has meds for schizophrenia that seem to be
    working well. She is doing very well for me now.
    Signature

    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10214401].message }}
  • homeless don't mean faceless
    roamful don't mean baseless
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff together.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10215544].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      homeless don't mean faceless
      roamful don't mean baseless


      Give daddy a hug!
      Signature

      'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
      -Muhammad Ali

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10215562].message }}
      • i guess obtuse means a kinda strikin' out, Frank, where there are targets you ain't quite sure you'll hit all the time, nor any kinda certainty that they're worthy targets at all, but right now, feet on ground, head in clouds, arrows primed to shoot, you see only certainty or regret, so you pull back on the string and play some undiluted Yousome into the bluesome because you trust it will pierce something (if not the bull first time) and you'll get feedback rather than no-back.

        Obtuse isn't always the right angle, but sometimes the target isn't right in front of you, and you gotta fire off something -- even if it's playing the wise sheriff.

        And herein lies Chez Bummerooni.

        This thread angled us here way narrower than obtusely. Kinda pointed, I'd say.

        But we'll sling and arrow our way outta this one, keenness of aim intact.

        *re-holsters bolts*

        So that's Windows 10, Madonna & the homeless fixed.

        Where are we bound next?

        George F*cking Clooney's undeniable irresistibility, forcing big titty girls into slavery, Apple EZ-life brain implants, euthanasia for abused lizards -- or a ban on surly waiters who believe fingerprints on cutlery ain't no big deal?

        Tellya, we're slayin' this place one issue at a time.
        Signature

        Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff together.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10215834].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

          But what does obtuse mean?

          Cheers. - Frank
          Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

          i guess obtuse means a kinda strikin' out, Frank, where there are targets you ain't quite sure you'll hit all the time, nor any kinda certainty that they're worthy targets at all, but right now, feet on ground, head in clouds, arrows primed to shoot, you see only certainty or regret, so you pull back on the string and play some undiluted Yousome into the bluesome because you trust it will pierce something (if not the bull first time) and you'll get feedback rather than no-back.

          Obtuse isn't always the right angle, but sometimes the target isn't right in front of you, and you gotta fire off something -- even if it's playing the wise sheriff.

          And herein lies Chez Bummerooni.

          This thread angled us here way narrower than obtusely. Kinda pointed, I'd say.

          But we'll sling and arrow our way outta this one, keenness of aim intact.

          *re-holsters bolts*

          So that's Windows 10, Madonna & the homeless fixed.

          Where are we bound next?

          George F*cking Clooney's undeniable irresistibility, forcing big titty girls into slavery, Apple EZ-life brain implants, euthanasia for abused lizards -- or a ban on surly waiters who believe fingerprints on cutlery ain't no big deal?

          Tellya, we're slayin' this place one issue at a time.


          So ... are we clear now? Did that clarify the issue for you? lol
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10215913].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
            Banned
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            So ... are we clear now? Did that clarify the issue for you? lol
            October 12th would have been my 2 year anniversary for quitting smoking pot.

            Unfortunately, after those posts, the need to un-fry my brain has made that eventuality highly unlikely.

            And to think that I was doing so well. :-(

            Cheers. - Frank
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10215927].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

              October 12th would have been my 2 year anniversary for quitting smoking pot.

              Unfortunately, after those posts, the need to un-fry my brain has made that eventuality highly unlikely.

              And to think that I was doing so well. :-(

              Cheers. - Frank
              At least you wont have to sniff glue anymore.
              Signature

              Where ever you go, there you are.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10215965].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                Banned
                Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                At least you wont have to sniff glue anymore.
                Testors Type 'A.' gave that up when I was 20. lol

                Cheers. - Frank
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10216393].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      homeless don't mean faceless
      roamful don't mean baseless
      But what does obtuse mean?

      Cheers. - Frank
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10215598].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        As I got older I realized that you must use what you have at your disposal to create the life that you wish to have. The secret to living with mental illness is learning how to cope, which can take decades.
        So true - you can spend decades learning to work around and thrive WITH the mental/emotional challenges you have....or spend those decades focused on trying to get over your "problem". Since almost everyone has something or other to deal with, maybe it's not a problem anyway....just a character trait.
        Signature
        Every child needs a pet because every family needs an optimist

        Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10215626].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          So true - you can spend decades learning to work around and thrive WITH the mental/emotional challenges you have....or spend those decades focused on trying to get over your "problem".
          Yes and many medical professionals have indubitably profited to extraordinary degrees because of the latter !!
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10215975].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Everychance
    Thought for real discussion
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10216163].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Everychance View Post

      Thought for real discussion
      We don't actually do that, here.

      Cheers. - Frank
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10216188].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        We don't actually do that, here.

        Cheers. - Frank
        Just some Frank discussions.
        Signature

        "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10216342].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          Just some Frank discussions.
          Couldn't have said it better, myself. :-)

          Cheers. - Frank
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10216348].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ksummers
    Some of us have no choice but to"hide behind" meds. I was diagnosed with psychotic depression 6 years ago and have been in and out of hospital since then. On meds I still have to learn how to cope, they aren't magical fix all tablets.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10217812].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      Originally Posted by ksummers View Post

      Some of us have no choice but to"hide behind" meds. I was diagnosed with psychotic depression 6 years ago and have been in and out of hospital since then. On meds I still have to learn how to cope, they aren't magical fix all tablets.
      Because you are aware that they are not magical, then it seems that you are not hiding behind meds, or being blinded by meds. So it seems you are aware they can be a tool.

      My Mom had clinical depression. Going from homemaker/Mom to single Mom was very traumatic. She needed hospitalization about a year after the divorce. Heavier doses on a regular basis at first, then
      diet and exercise and only taking anti-depressants when she sensed a heavy "darkness" coming.

      It's a shame that it often takes so long to find the right med and dosage if it is going to be an effective tool and not a mask.

      I think that for some people it would be good to get the ineffective meds out of their system. Cleansing and detoxing. I don't know how long they truly linger in the system.

      Dan
      Signature

      "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10217831].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
      Originally Posted by ksummers View Post

      Some of us have no choice but to"hide behind" meds. I was diagnosed with psychotic depression 6 years ago and have been in and out of hospital since then. On meds I still have to learn how to cope, they aren't magical fix all tablets.
      I agree.

      Saying someone is 'hiding behind meds' is really foolish.

      It's like saying I am 'hiding behind meds' because I need to regulate my HIV(I dont actually have it.)
      Signature

      'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
      -Muhammad Ali

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10218640].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

        I agree.

        Saying someone is 'hiding behind meds' is really foolish.

        It's like saying I am 'hiding behind meds' because I need to regulate my HIV(I dont actually have it.)
        You can twist what I said any way you chose, which only makes you look foolish. Those with the intelligence and the understanding of the point I was trying to make, know precisely what I was alluding to.

        Perhaps someday you will, too.

        Cheers. - Frank
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10218703].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

          You can twist what I said any way you chose, which only makes you look foolish. Those with the intelligence and the understanding of the point I was trying to make, know precisely what I was alluding to.

          Perhaps someday you will, too.

          Cheers. - Frank


          I believe people with intelligence chose not to get circumcised, do you know what I am alluding to?
          Signature

          'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
          -Muhammad Ali

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10219381].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

            I believe people with intelligence chose not to get circumcised, do you know what I am alluding to?
            Most males are circumcised at birth. Intelligence is not part of the equation. It's a parental decision generally based on cultural traditions.

            Don't be a smegma brain.

            Cheers. - Frank
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10219384].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

              Most males are circumcised at birth. Intelligence is not part of the equation. It's a parental decision generally based on cultural traditions.

              Don't be a smegma brain.

              Cheers. - Frank
              Where did you get the idea that most males are circumcised at birth? Hardly a practice in Europe except for people following the Jewish faith. (I'm not)
              Signature

              Where ever you go, there you are.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10219428].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                Where did you get the idea that most males are circumcised at birth? Hardly a practice in Europe except for people following the Jewish faith. (I'm not)
                I think when people from the US answer a question, they do so from their own frame of reference. I don't really bother to include other countries practices in my answers. They can, like you did, chime in for themselves.

                Male circumcision is most prevalent in the Muslim world, where it is nearly universal, as well as in parts of southeast Asia and of Africa, the United States, the Philippines, Israel, and South Korea. In contrast, it is relatively rare in Europe, parts of southern Africa, and most of Asia and Oceania. In Latin America, the prevalence of circumcision is universally low.

                United States
                Rate of neonatal circumcision in the United States by region in 2009. Based on data from the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality Healthcare Cost and Utilization Project.[28]

                Statistics from different sources give widely varying estimates of infant circumcision rates in the United States.

                In 2011, circumcision was one of the most common procedures performed during hospital stays in the U.S. There were approximately 1.1 million hospitalizations with a circumcision, a rate of 36 stays per 10,000 population. This was a decrease of 16% from 1997, when there was a rate of 43 stays per 10,000 population. It was the second-most common procedure performed on patients under one year of age.[29]

                In 2005, about 56 percent of male newborns were circumcised prior to release from the hospital according to statistics from the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality.[30]

                Data from a national survey conducted from 1999 to 2002 found that the overall prevalence of male circumcision in the United States was 79%.[4] 91% of boys born in the 1970s, and 83% of boys born in the 1980s were circumcised.[4] An earlier survey, conducted in 1992, found a circumcision prevalence of 77% in US-born men, born from 1932-1974, including 81% of non-Hispanic White men, 65% of Black men, and 54% of Hispanic men, vs. 42% of non U.S. born men who were circumcised.[31]

                A study published in 2005, which used data from the Nationwide Inpatient Sample (a sample of 5-7 million of the nation's total inpatient stay
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10219436].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  I think when people from the US answer a question, they do so from their own frame of reference. I don't really bother to include other countries practices in my answers. They can, like you did, chime in for themselves.
                  Personally, I don't acknowledge the existence of other countries on the planet as they pertain to practically anything I discuss. lol

                  Cheers. - Frank
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10219449].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  I think when people from the US answer a question, they do so from their own frame of reference. I don't really bother to include other countries practices in my answers. They can, like you did, chime in for themselves.
                  I know a guy who got circumcised in his 30's.


                  OUTCH!!!
                  Signature

                  "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10219481].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                Banned
                Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                Where did you get the idea that most males are circumcised at birth? Hardly a practice in Europe except for people following the Jewish faith. (I'm not)
                My apologies for a poorly structured sentence. What I was trying to communicate is that when boys are circumcised, it is a procedure that is generally done before they leave the hospital, at birth. Their personal intelligence level has nothing to do with the decision. It's a parental decision.

                Cheers. - Frank
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10219440].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                Banned
                Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                (I'm not)
                TMI.

                Cheers. - Frank
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10219452].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                  TMI.

                  Cheers. - Frank
                  That's what I was going to say .... lol
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10219487].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                  Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                  TMI.

                  Cheers. - Frank
                  It has it's drawbacks.
                  Signature

                  Where ever you go, there you are.

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10220016].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                    It has it's drawbacks.
                    More TMI, Ian.
                    Signature

                    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10220118].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                      More TMI, Ian.
                      Just don't run the video in your mind and you should be OK. :-)

                      Cheers. - Frank
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10220216].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Funny how people on this thread think because someone is homeless they must be crazy or lazy.

    Just so you know, sometimes shit happens to hard workers.
    Signature
    Hi
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10218696].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I used Prozac for about a year. It helped get through a pretty bad acute clinical depression. Then I stopped taking it. I was tired of feeling neither one way nor another about everything. I'm generally not a "middle of the road" sort of person and that's what my feelings and emotions had become. Just neither happy nor sad. Sort of like .... nothing. I don't like feeling nothing, so I decided it was time to get back to real unfiltered emotions, like them or not.

    If you're in a crisis and need to dull your feelings and emotions for awhile, I see no reason not to do so, but as a long term thing, you'll be missing a lot.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10219418].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I was tired of feeling neither one way nor another about everything.
      This is what is referred to as the 'numbing-effect.' it's why the VA is so quick to give psychotropic meds to vets with PTSD. It does reduce the daily agitation level that PTSD patients are forced to endure and it placates the vet as it pertains to dealing with the vagaries of the VA bureaucracy, thereby killing two birds with one stone. The longer the VA can keep you engulfed in their modus operandi, the less of a problem you are, both for them and society in general.

      These drugs don't and can't cure anything. All they do is put you in a state of not caring about your situation, which I guess makes most people feel better. If you enjoy being an unfeeling zombie, meds are the way to go. If you have the strength of will to face your problems head-on, knowing that it is going to be an extremely painful struggle, living drug-free is your best course of action. THAT is how you learn to cope - which was my original premise and one I believe which can't be disputed.

      Cheers. - Frank
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10219431].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post


        All they do is put you in a state of not caring about your situation, which I guess makes most people feel better. If you enjoy being an unfeeling zombie, meds are the way to go. If you have the strength of will to face your problems head-on, knowing that it is going to be an extremely painful struggle, living drug-free is your best course of action. THAT is how you learn to cope - which was my original premise and one I believe which can't be disputed.

        Cheers. - Frank


        Where are your sources, aside from your own personal experience?


        I think the unfeeling thing for everyone is something you made up emotionally, on a whim, in your own head.
        Signature

        'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
        -Muhammad Ali

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10219884].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          go to social services for help and get TENTS. I was serious
          I don't think that is so shocking. Are these people already receiving food stamps and medicaid and ADC, etc? There were many "tent cities" after the economy crashed - they were all over the country and people bought their own tents.

          If I had absolutely nowhere to stay - a tent would be a step up. I don't mean that in a heartless way - but there are limits to what you can do. Saying "we should not limit help to the poor" sounds great but where does all that help come from?
          Signature
          Every child needs a pet because every family needs an optimist

          Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10219907].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

          Where are your sources, aside from your own personal experience?
          Oh, gee, I don't know. Maybe the many hundreds of veterans with PTSD that I have come into contact with over the past 5 decades of being immersed in the VA treatment protocol.

          Does that work for you???
          I think the unfeeling thing for everyone is something you made up emotionally, on a whim, in your own head.
          There you go with that 'thinking,' again. Until you learn how to accomplish that effectively, I would try to hold that to an absolute minimum. Less chance of getting in trouble or looking ridiculous.

          Sorry for taking so long to respond. I took a 4 hour break and drove down to Wildwood with the top down and had a quite delicious lunch. That's what I do to treat my mental illness as opposed to taking drugs. It works infinitely, better! :-)

          I've been smiling, all day. Howzabout you???

          Cheers. - Frank
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10219970].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

    Are homeless people genuinely in need.............I honestly think this country is too lenient with these people. I think the unemployment rate would cut in half if we stopped giving these parasites ways to live off the system and pretend to be incompetent.

    the ignorance of the poster of the subject he is talking about is that he automatically equates homeless with unemployed

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/18/ny...nted=2&_r=1&hp

    Five myths about America's homeless


    I thought everyone knew this but of course when you start a thread to puff out your own chest and build your ego by looking down your nose at the less fortunate why bother with facts??
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10219740].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Mike - I already pointed that one out. In Central Oregon people go to social services for help and get TENTS. I was serious. There is a whole tent city of working homeless just East of Bend. Jobs in that area a all minimum wage and 28 hours max per week. I was there 3 years and had a part time job I hated (too physically demanding) because it paid way higher than I could have gotten even from more professional work.

    They don't usually hire my age unless you are enrolled in the college down there (and there's little financial aid for older students now) - they center their whole economy on part time college kids and hire grads directly from the college for the better jobs. If you were to go to the employment office, every person there is over 40. Older people are moving out and homes are being rented by the bedroom to college kids. The average 2 bedroom home is going for between $800 and 4 bills - a 3 bedroom home under 1,200 a month is rare. Most are around $1,500. Apartments start at around $700. How people are supposed to afford homes when it takes 2 salaries just to make the rent? Renting a room is actually even difficult on the low paid, part time jobs. It's gotten totally FUBAR.

    So the working poor get tents to live in. It's absolutely disgusting. Yet people there are extremely negative about that tent city. They don't want it there at all and think that it's loaded with beggars and freeloaders. What they don't understand is that it's their greed that is perpetuating it.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10219803].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      The average 2 bedroom home is going for between $800 and 4 bills - a 3 bedroom home under 1,200 a month is rare. Most are around $1,500. Apartments start at around $700. How people are supposed to afford homes when it takes 2 salaries just to make the rent?
      Yep and in some areas its actually a worse scenario. Most owners in quite a few cities require First,last and security. Its a well established fact that many Americans live paycheck to paycheck so is it that big of a surprise when some people have to move to a new house they don't have the 3-4 thousand required in First last and security?

      A good while back when I was starting out in life this in fact nearly happened to me. With a little help from family and because my cash flow was good enough I lived in a hotel until I could put together the security requirements. all kinds of things can have you moving unexpectedly. If you recall even recently, during the housing bust a lot of this was going on. Renters were getting knocks on the door of their houses etc were sold through foreclosure sales and they had to move - many to homelessness - I believe there was a law even passed to protect renters for that reason.

      A few years ago one good illness could wipe out your savings (still can but slower since you can get insurance regardless of pre existing conditions).
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10220058].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author objectiveman
    I remember reading something about this issue a while back. It turns out most homeless people are mentally ill. This can be genetic or from drug/alcohol abuse. Many of them are schizophrenic and or are on shizoprhenia reducing drugs (that reduce dopamine levels too low).

    Long story short, the thing that makes people motivated to do things is dopamine. If dopamine d2 receptors are taken out by drug abuse, pornography addiction, or excess carb consumption people will have barely any motivation to do anything. In fact if you take away the dopamine from a rat brain it won't even eat the food you place in front of it, it will starve to death.

    Things that have shown to increase dopamine d2 receptor density are intermittent fasting, cardio exercise, and more recently it is showing that people who masturbate less frequently have higher d2 receptor density.. hence the growth in the 'nofap' movement.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10228748].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Red Rock West
    Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

    Are homeless people genuinely in need?


    Living in NYC I see a bunch of people who are perfectly capable of working, who just chose not to.

    There are so many resources for free help and work that it just boggles my mind how people just jump from train to train and beg, and sit on the sidewalk all day and loiter.


    I honestly think this country is too lenient with these people. I think the unemployment rate would cut in half if we stopped giving these parasites ways to live off the system and pretend to be incompetent.
    The "gatekeepers" are a big part of your problem with the homeless. Naive and corrupt gatekeepers.

    I'd wager if people stopped raping and abusing their own children; or disbelieving them when others do; then those children wouldn't end up with debilitating "personality disorders" that preclude them from having normal experiences and interactions as adults with other people.

    People may look fine on the outside; like they can work and carry on; but you'd be surprised at how difficult (if not impossible) others will make it for them to get off the system. The US and Canadian systems depends on the "losers" lining up for handouts.

    Give it more thought; your eyes are still firmly shut on the cruel realities of life and exactly how the food chain works.

    Point of interest: Did you know that therapists can refuse to treat people ... anyone they want? It's a matter of routine to deny the disturbed meaningful, in-depth care. No therapist wants to deal with the inevitable counter-transference that comes with in-depth counseling. And that is one of the main reasons why we have stacks and stacks of homeless, shell shocked human beings roaming the streets. You know, the ones that "choose" not to better themselves. The road to "choosing" was perverted for them a long time ago, now others do the "choosing" for them ...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10228921].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
      Originally Posted by Red Rock West View Post

      Did you know that therapists can refuse to treat people ... anyone they want? It's a matter of routine to deny the disturbed meaningful, in-depth care. No therapist wants to deal with the inevitable counter-transference that comes with in-depth counseling.
      A "matter of routine"??? Hardly.

      I can speak from many years of experience as a therapist, and what you stated above is mostly BS. Sure, anyone in private practice can refuse to take someone on as a client. But the "inevitable counter-transference" you're talking about is something any experienced therapist worth his/her salt knows how to manage and doesn't shy away from. It's also a valuable therapeutic "tool".

      In all my years that was never a reason why I might prefer not to work with a particular client.

      Therapists may choose to not take on a client for a variety of reasons, including:

      - The therapist is specialized in treating a particular demographic (e.g. children) or disorder
      - The client's presenting problem is beyond the therapist's level of experience and expertise, and would be better served by a more experienced or specialized therapist, or by a specific type of therapy in which the therapist isn't trained
      - The therapist doesn't feel the client would be an appropriate fit for the type of therapy he or she practices
      - The client can't afford the therapist's fees
      - The therapist's practice is full

      In community mental health agencies that are funded, at least in part, by state or county dollars, individuals aren't turned away for the reasons you've stated. The primary reasons they might be denied service would be:

      - They have private insurance and don't meet the requirements for the services provided by the agency
      - They need a higher level of service (e.g. inpatient treatment, and proper measures would be taken to ensure they get those services)
      - They don't have a psychiatric disorder and therefore don't meet the criteria to receive services from the county agency
      - Their income is too high (most county agencies typically serve only low-income individuals)

      Some degree of counter-transference isn't unusual in therapy, and it definitely isn't limited to "in-depth counseling". And for the record, some therapists prefer longer-term "in-depth" approaches to psychotherapy. Brief therapy is often insurance-driven and isn't always in a client's best interest.

      Most therapists have a genuine desire to help people - that's usually why they went into the field in the first place. Turning someone away isn't done lightly, and, if they've already done an initial evaluation or started therapy, and can't (or don't feel they should) continue working with the individual (assuming the person still needs or would benefit from treatment), they have an ethical (and often legal, depending) obligation to give the client appropriate referrals and not just leave them in a lurch.
      Signature
      If you don't face your fears, the only thing you'll ever see is what's in your comfort zone. ~Anne McClain, astronaut
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10228950].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Red Rock West
        Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

        A "matter of routine"??? Hardly.

        I can speak from many years of experience as a therapist, and what you stated above is mostly BS. Sure, anyone in private practice can refuse to take someone on as a client. But the "inevitable counter-transference" you're talking about is something any experienced therapist worth his/her salt knows how to manage and doesn't shy away from. It's also a valuable therapeutic "tool".

        In all my years that was never a reason why I might prefer not to work with a particular client.

        Therapists may choose to not take on a client for a variety of reasons, including:

        - The therapist is specialized in treating a particular demographic (e.g. children) or disorder
        - The client's presenting problem is beyond the therapist's level of experience and expertise, and would be better served by a more experienced or specialized therapist, or by a specific type of therapy in which the therapist isn't trained
        - The therapist doesn't feel the client would be an appropriate fit for the type of therapy he or she practices
        - The client can't afford the therapist's fees
        - The therapist's practice is full

        In community mental health agencies that are funded, at least in part, by state or county dollars, individuals aren't turned away for the reasons you've stated. The primary reasons they might be denied service would be:

        - They have private insurance and don't meet the requirements for the services provided by the agency
        - They need a higher level of service (e.g. inpatient treatment, and proper measures would be taken to ensure they get those services)
        - They don't have a psychiatric disorder and therefore don't meet the criteria to receive services from the county agency
        - Their income is too high (most county agencies typically serve only low-income individuals)

        Some degree of counter-transference often occurs in therapy, and it definitely isn't limited to "in-depth counseling". And for the record, some therapists prefer longer-term "in-depth" approaches to psychotherapy. Brief therapy is often insurance-driven and isn't always in a client's best interest.

        Most therapists have a genuine desire to help people - that's usually why they went into the field in the first place. Turning someone away isn't done lightly, and, if they've already done an initial evaluation or started therapy, and can't (or don't feel they should) continue working with the individual (assuming the person still needs or would benefit from treatment), they have an ethical (and often legal, depending) obligation to give the client appropriate referrals and not just leave them in a lurch.
        Cali

        Here in Canada, in my city, the mental health authority has it down to a science. People with borderline personality, histrionics and the like are run in circles. Meaningful therapy does not exist for those groups of people that have had the most horrendous abuses imposed on them. You not accepting the reality of the situation in my city or pronouncing it "bs" doesn't make it less so.

        There is blatant self-serving recklessness with the mental health system. It's beyond evident. I've seen first hand how these "less thans" are treated in groups and individual settings. Too many bodies stacking up, Cali, way too many bodies.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10229027].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Cali16
          Originally Posted by Red Rock West View Post

          Cali

          Here in Canada, in my city, the mental health authority has it down to a science. People with borderline personality, histrionics and the like are run in circles. Meaningful therapy does not exist for those groups of people that have had the most horrendous abuses imposed on them. You not accepting the reality of the situation in my city or pronouncing it "bs" doesn't make it less so.

          There is blatant self-serving recklessness with the mental health system. It's beyond evident. I've seen first hand how these "less thans" are treated in groups and individual settings. Too many bodies stacking up, Cali, way too many bodies.
          Sigh...where to start.

          I was calling "B.S." on your assumptions that 1) many homeless people are in that situation because they've been denied services by calloused, uncaring therapists who don't want to treat them and 2) that they don't want to treat them due to the "inevitable counter-transference".

          There very well may be a lot of individuals in your Canadian city that aren't receiving the services they need - I don't know the Canadian mental health system.

          Also, many individuals with borderline PD and histrionic PD weren't abused (which you would know if you had advanced training in clinical psychology or a related field). A history of some sort of abuse is fairly common with BPD, but it's not always the case. And many individuals who suffered abuse in childhood don't develop BPD or any other personality disorder. They certainly have a greater risk of developing some type of mental health disorder, especially if they're already predisposed or at risk due to other factors, but that still doesn't mean they will.

          Here in the U.S., histrionic PD isn't a diagnosis that's covered by the vast majority of, if any, insurance plans (so, no, those individuals often aren't going to get treatment, unless they have a covered comorbid disorder or want to pay for treatment out of pocket). In fact, out of all the personality disorders, BPD is the only one that's usually considered a covered diagnosis. Partly because some types of treatment, particularly DBT, have been found to be consistently effective to a reasonable degree, and partly because they are such high users of the system and especially high risk clients (in terms of suicidal and other forms of self harm behavior). Therapy isn't a "cure" for BPD, but it can significantly reduce the problems inherent in the disorder.

          For other personality disorders, intensive long term treatment is almost always required to make any noticeable difference, and, unlike BPD, individuals with other personality disorders aren't high users of the mental health system. In fact, most don't seek treatment at all unless a loved one pushes them to do so (or they're seeking treatment for a comorbid disorder, such as depression). Most people don't have the resources to pay out of pocket for intensive long-term treatment, not to mention the motivation to get treatment even if they can afford it (if a personality disorder is the primary issue, at least).

          Another thing you need to consider is that individuals with BPD also sometimes play their own role in not getting the help they need (including not wanting treatment), due to aspects of the disorder. You simply can't blame everything on therapists turning them away or the system in general, which is also why I take issue with your statements.

          Are many BPD individuals getting denied treatment where you live? Maybe they are. But again, I highly doubt it's due primarily or even to any significant degree to therapists' not wanting to deal with counter-transference (which, again, can happen with all types of clients, not just those with BPD - which is another reason your argument falls flat on its face). Individuals with BPD are often difficult clients, but potential counter-transference is only one of many reasons.

          If you're going to make an argument, at least make one that's valid and not merely based on loose assumptions because that's how things appear to you. Appearances don't give the real story.
          Signature
          If you don't face your fears, the only thing you'll ever see is what's in your comfort zone. ~Anne McClain, astronaut
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10229088].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Red Rock West View Post

      Point of interest: Did you know that therapists can refuse to treat people ... anyone they want? It's a matter of routine to deny the disturbed meaningful, in-depth care. No therapist wants to deal with the inevitable counter-transference that comes with in-depth counseling.
      In a lot of cases it doesn't matter because psychotherapy by and large is not a real science (unlike any real science its status as such is debated constantly - distinct from psychiatry). it contains some science no doubt but thats not the same thing. It may not be the therapists denies treatment but can't do anything meaningful. All therapists hold themselves out as experts but the research of the field has consistently shown dubious results (as compared to other support systems). Thats why you have apologetic pieces like this

      https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-psychotherapy

      Thats not to say every therapist is the same - quite the opposite. Some are good and some are not so good because of the non science elements. Theres no way to standardize the treatment because it varies too much and is often based in part on the therapists own assumptions and biases. We'd probably do better concentrating on issues leading up to mental issues than relying on the dubious collective ability of therapists to correct it.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10234238].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Theres no way to standardize the treatment because it varies too much.
        Results are generally determined by the fit between therapist and patient. A good fit allows the patient to not feel threatened or judged. The more comfortable you are the more you will be willing to reveal your innermost issues, which allows the therapist to focus on the most severe ones.

        A bad fit can make the patient even worse than before starting treatment.

        Cheers. - Frank
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10234247].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Purnima Shah
    Yes, they need help.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10240829].message }}

Trending Topics