Floyd Mathweather Greatest Boxer (not brawler or mauler) Since Ali?

15 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
Love him, hate him or don't care Floyd Mayweather has earned the title Greatest Boxer (not fighter, brawler or mauler)since Ali.

I still find it hard to believe so many people disagree. Dispite all the records he's set, the interests he's revived in boxing and the other fighters he's made millionaires.
I don't get it.
  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    How about the best "boxer" since Sugar Ray Leonard?


    Mayweather has a few issues. First, he's a total jerk and has done some awful things outside of the ring.


    Also, he strategically dodged a number of fighters. While he did fight many of them, he waited until they were past their prime. His fight with Manny is a good example. Fighters like Ali, Leonard and Marciano fought everyone they'd put in front of them and their opponents were in their prime.
    Signature
    Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
    Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10277330].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      How about the best "boxer" since Sugar Ray Leonard?


      Mayweather has a few issues. First, he's a total jerk and has done some awful things outside of the ring.
      I agree with that. I'd even add self-centered, materialistic show-off.

      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Also, he strategically dodged a number of fighters. While he did fight many of them, he waited until they were past their prime. His fight with Manny is a good example. .
      You do realize Manny is younger than Mayweather by 2 years, right?

      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Yea, I''l go with the best boxer since Leonard.

      That would have been some fight. Leonard or even Aaron Pryor verses Mayweather. Also, Herns would have given Mayweather a whole lot of trouble because of his reach advantage.
      Yes, those would have been classic. The only unfortunate thing for Mayweather is no quality competition. But that's not Mayweather's fault ... is it? He's a 38 year old undefeated champion that holds 5 belts. That's insane. He just fought and beat a top contender in his prime, 6 years younger the other night. I'm not sure what else he could do, except be born during boxing's heyday years? Before the UFC took a lot of talent away from boxing.
      Signature
      Download "Free 80 Page E-Book"
      "201 Ways To Live Better On Less Money".
      "Because The Easiest Way To Make Money is ... ... By Saving Some First!"
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10277823].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author nbsdemo
        I do not think that Mayweather is the best, that title goes to Sugar Ray Robinson. I do not think that he is the greatest. That title goes to Muhammad Ali.
        But I do think Mayweather is arguably the most skilled boxer ever.
        From a technical standpoint, he is remarkable.
        His skill set has allowed him to dominate for close to 20 years even though his athleticism and power has been in decline for years as he aged and moved up in weight.
        Most people that dis Mayweather do so based on the hate they have for him, not because of their boxing knowledge.
        Usually, these people cannot even tell the difference between a jab and a straight punch. When I hear comments like "Mayweather, all he does is run" I know I'm dealing with someone who needs a little more education on the subject.
        All these people want to see is some guy go forward and throw hay-makers all the time.
        Boxing is much more than that, they do not call it the "sweet science" for nothing.
        Boxing is establishing rhythm, managing distance, foot work, accuracy, anticipation, timing, waist movement, head movement, and so on.
        And like it or not, Mayweather is a master in all these things.
        And it seems like for many folks, getting some kind of beating is what makes boxers great.
        Remember: to hit and NOT get hit, that is boxing.
        The aforementioned does not mean that I am a fan.
        The obvious is all that is stated...

        Cheers,
        nbs
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10277909].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

        I agree with that. I'd even add self-centered, materialistic show-off.


        You do realize Manny is younger than Mayweather by 2 years, right?



        Yes, those would have been classic. The only unfortunate thing for Mayweather is no quality competition. But that's not Mayweather's fault ... is it? He's a 38 year old undefeated champion that holds 5 belts. That's insane. He just fought and beat a top contender in his prime, 6 years younger the other night. I'm not sure what else he could do, except be born during boxing's heyday years? Before the UFC took a lot of talent away from boxing.
        Of course I realize that. And you realize that Mayweather ducked Manny for 6-7 years, right? Not to mention, Manny was just one example.
        Signature
        Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
        Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10278256].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

        I agree with that. I'd even add self-centered, materialistic show-off.


        You do realize Manny is younger than Mayweather by 2 years, right?
        Pacman is a fighter who had a lot of tough, great fights.
        Mayweather is a dancer who avoided every tough fight he could.
        Massive difference in longevity.


        Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

        Yes, those would have been classic. The only unfortunate thing for Mayweather is no quality competition. But that's not Mayweather's fault ... is it?
        Yes, actually, it specifically is his fault.
        Because he is quite clearly a fight dodger.


        Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

        He's a 38 year old undefeated champion that holds 5 belts. That's insane. He just fought and beat a top contender in his prime, 6 years younger the other night. I'm not sure what else he could do, except be born during boxing's heyday years? Before the UFC took a lot of talent away from boxing.
        "Undefeated" is not the same thing as being a "winner".
        Especially in the case of Mayweather.

        And, boxing is losing to MMA for a lot of reasons, and paying
        through the nose for his snoozefests is one of them.
        Signature

        The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

        ...A tachyon enters a bar.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10278273].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    This thread again?

    Mayweather and his "records" are like spam.
    That's why people disagree.
    Signature

    The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

    ...A tachyon enters a bar.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10277409].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Yea, I''l go with the best boxer since Leonard.

    That would have been some fight. Leonard or even Aaron Pryor verses Mayweather. Also, Herns would have given Mayweather a whole lot of trouble because of his reach advantage.
    Signature

    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10277420].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      That would have been some dance.
      Fixed that for you.
      Signature

      The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

      ...A tachyon enters a bar.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10277472].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

        Fixed that for you.
        Let me guess. Fighters are supposed to slug it out like rock'm-sock'm robots until one of them drops and can't get back up right?

        And when they have mental problems in the future...

        I'm not so sure he ducked Manny. All Manny had to do was take a drug test before or after the fight.

        Besides, Manny had a lot more to lose after Mayweather would have shattered his "myth" and simply done to him early in their careers - the same thing he did to him in May. There just would have been a lot more lounging from Manny than in their recent fight.

        Is there anyone else Floyd supposedly ducked???
        Signature

        "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10278396].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          Let me guess. Fighters are supposed to slug it out like rock'm-sock'm robots until one of them drops and can't get back up right?

          And when they have mental problems in the future...

          I'm not so sure he ducked Manny. All Manny had to do was take a drug test before or after the fight.

          Besides, Manny had a lot more to lose after Mayweather would have shattered his "myth" and simply done to him early in their careers - the same thing he did to him in May. There just would have been a lot more lounging from Manny than in their recent fight.

          Is there anyone else Floyd supposedly ducked???
          Much like the last time we had this conversation, you are jumping
          to conclusions based on a small part of what I said, and conversations
          you've probably had with other people who espoused such views.

          To state is clearly, no, I do not think that at all.
          Lennox Lewis is one of my all-time favorite boxers, and I was
          a fan of Boring Bernard for a long time.

          Earlier in their careers, when Manny was a heavier hitter, I have doubts
          that Mayweather's shoulder-rolling defense could have protected him.
          Those early rounds of blows on his shoulders and triceps would have
          slowed Mayweather's jab, and Manny's superior clinch would have
          worn-out Mayweather's biceps, meaning weaker and slower withdraws...
          And openings... Mayweather couldn't have taken many his from Manny
          in his prime.

          Much like what would have happened if Lewis had fought Tyson
          before he went to prison, instead of shortly after he got out...

          Let me also state this clearly: Mayweather is good. He has skill.
          But he certainly does not have the timeless greatness of a true boxer.
          That's what he (and his fans, apparently?) are claiming, and it just
          isn't true.
          Signature

          The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

          ...A tachyon enters a bar.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10279113].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

            Much like the last time we had this conversation, you are jumping
            to conclusions based on a small part of what I said, and conversations
            you've probably had with other people who espoused such views.

            To state is clearly, no, I do not think that at all.
            Lennox Lewis is one of my all-time favorite boxers, and I was
            a fan of Boring Bernard for a long time.

            Earlier in their careers, when Manny was a heavier hitter, I have doubts
            that Mayweather's shoulder-rolling defense could have protected him.
            Those early rounds of blows on his shoulders and triceps would have
            slowed Mayweather's jab, and Manny's superior clinch would have
            worn-out Mayweather's biceps, meaning weaker and slower withdraws...
            And openings... Mayweather couldn't have taken many his from Manny
            in his prime.

            Much like what would have happened if Lewis had fought Tyson
            before he went to prison, instead of shortly after he got out...

            Let me also state this clearly: Mayweather is good. He has skill.

            But he certainly does not have the timeless greatness of a true boxer.
            That's what he (and his fans, apparently?) are claiming, and it just
            isn't true.
            And that's clearly a matter of opinion.
            Signature

            "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10279141].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

              And that's clearly a matter of opinion.
              Umm, Yes, yes it is...
              This is a forum where people talk about their opinions of things...?
              Signature

              The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

              ...A tachyon enters a bar.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10279159].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

    Love him, hate him or don't care Floyd Mayweather has earned the title Greatest Boxer (not fighter, brawler or mauler)since Ali.

    I still find it hard to believe so many people disagree. Dispite all the records he's set, the interests he's revived in boxing and the other fighters he's made millionaires.
    I don't get it.
    That's because there's a lot of subjectivity when it comes to sports, especially boxing where a fighter's fate can be left up to judges. Sure, there are some numbers as far as how many wins and loses a fighter has. There is also the quality of fighters that the person has fought. Which is why an undefeated fighter like Joe Calzaghe doesn't even make it into these types of conversations because Kessler is considered the only real tough competitor that he fought.

    I grew up in a boxing family, my father was an amateur boxer and he taught me how to box starting around age 4. I grew up with boxing, watched a lot of fights, and had many of my own.

    Let me be clear, I don't like Mayweather as a person. I don't respect any man who feels like he can hit a woman and think it's no big deal. There are other things I don't like about him, but as a boxer, he is simply a master at his craft. I've seen Mayweather train, and his work ethic and focus were impressive.

    Setting those biases aside, I consider Mayweather one of the most technically proficient boxers I have ever seen. Some people call him a "boring" fighter, but as someone who is a big fan of boxing and all of it's nuances, I don't find him boring at all. By no means am I saying he's an exciting fighter, clearly, he is not, but I still enjoy watching him operate. By his own admission, Mayweather created a fighting style that would allow him to take as few blows to his head as possible. I think that's smart, especially since we now know the damage the brain can take after taking repeated blows to the head.

    Though there is something to be said about two brawler-type of boxers going at it. That's a different style of boxing and it tends to be more appealing to the casual fan. I understand that.

    I almost lost my beverage when someone referred to Andre Berto as a top contender. I have yet to find one boxing analyst who would agree. Berto is not a bad fighter, but he was no where on the same level as Mayweather, not even close, which is one of the reasons why Mayweather chose him. It was a very low risk fight for Mayweather picking a fighter who had lost 3 of his last 5 fights. If you look up the fight statistics of that last fight, Mayweather not only dominated Berto, but he was extremely accurate, almost to the point of being superhuman.

    And that's what Mayweather is good at, he's good at picking fighters that he can beat. But he's also fought plenty of dangerous fighters. Cotto and Canelo were no slouches, yet Mayweather was able to beat them handily. To my recollection he has beat over 20 world title belt holders. That is no small feat. Fighters like Zab Judah and Shane Mosely were supposed to have the hand speed to match Mayweather, but that turned out not to be the case.

    Some people say Mayweather was ducking Manny and that all Manny had to do was take a test, but Manny had already agreed to taking all of the sanctioned tests but Mayweather wanted those added tests. Something no other fighter had done up to that point, yet Mayweather wanted Manny to do it. I thought that was unreasonable.

    Did he really think Manny was taking some kind of enhancement drugs or was he really using this as a ducking tactic? No really knows for sure, but I have my own opinions.

    He's a very interesting article by one critic who doesn't even put Mayweather in his top ten fighters of all time:

    Floyd Mayweather may call himself The Best Ever... but he doesn't even make my top-10 boxers of all time | Daily Mail Online

    I've watched all of Mayweather's fights and I've watched all of Manny's fights. Manny has won belts in 8 different weight classes and he's beat fighters that were significantly bigger than he was. Based on the caliber of oppenents he's fought, I would still say Manny was a greater overall boxer than Mayweather based on that criteria. It's too bad he wasn't at 100% in his fight against Mayweather. He's an idiot for not delaying the fight if he knew he had an injured shoulder.

    Despite all this, I think Mayweather is a phenomenal boxer and even at age 38 and with some boxing experts saying he's lost a little bit of his step, Mayweather was still able to dominate a good boxer. He is definitely one of the best since Sugar Ray Leonard. The boxing mind, the technical aspects to his game, his uncanny hand speed, and his amazingly accurate hands make him one of the best and smartest boxers out there.

    It's just too bad we didn't get to see him fight certain boxers in their prime. I hope he comes out of retirement and picks a really tough fighter for his 50ths title defense because going out with Andre Berto as the last fight was very disappointing and I don't think it was worthy of his legacy.
    Signature
    "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
    - Jim Rohn
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10278692].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      That's because there's a lot of subjectivity when it comes to sports, especially boxing where a fighter's fate can be left up to judges. Sure, there are some numbers as far as how many wins and loses a fighter has. There is also the quality of fighters that the person has fought. Which is why an undefeated fighter like Joe Calzaghe doesn't even make it into these types of conversations because Kessler is considered the only real tough competitor that he fought.

      I grew up in a boxing family, my father was an amateur boxer and he taught me how to box starting around age 4. I grew up with boxing, watched a lot of fights, and had many of my own.

      Let me be clear, I don't like Mayweather as a person. I don't respect any man who feels like he can hit a woman and think it's no big deal. There are other things I don't like about him, but as a boxer, he is simply a master at his craft. I've seen Mayweather train, and his work ethic and focus were unreal.

      Setting those biases aside, I consider Mayweather one of the most technically proficient boxers I have ever seen. Some people call him a "boring" fighter, but as someone who is a big fan of boxing and all of it's nuances, I don't find him boring at all. By no means am I saying he's an exciting fighter, clearly, he is not, but I still enjoy watching him operate. By his own admission, Mayweather created a fighting style that would allow him to take as few blows to his head as possible. I think that's smart, especially since we now know the damage the brain can take after taking repeated blows to the head.

      Though there is something to be said about two brawler-type of boxers going at it. That's a different style of boxing and it tends to be more appealing to the casual fan. I understand that.

      I almost lost my beverage when someone referred to Andre Berto as a top contender. I have yet to find one boxing analyst who would agree. Berto is not a bad fighter, but he was no where on the same level as Mayweather, not even close, which is one of the reasons why Mayweather chose him. It was a very low risk fight for Mayweather picking a fighter who had lost 3 of his last 5 fights. If you look up the fight statistics of that last fight, Mayweather not only dominated Berto, but he was accurate, almost to the point of being superhuman.

      And that's what Mayweather is good at, he's good at picking fighters that he can beat. But he's also fought plenty of dangerous fighters. Cotto and Canelo were no slouches, yet Mayweather was able to beat them handily. To my recollection he has beat over 20 world title belt holders. That is no small feat. Fighters like Zab Judah and Shane Mosely were supposed to have the hand speed to match Mayweather, but that turned out not to be the case.

      Some people say Mayweather was ducking Manny and that all Manny had to do was take a test, but Manny had already agreed to taking all of the sanctioned tests but Mayweather wanted those added tests. Something no other fighter had done up to that point, yet Mayweather wanted Manny to do it. I thought that was unreasonable.

      Did he really think Manny was taking some kind of enhancement drugs or was he really using this as a ducking tactic? No really knows for sure, but I have my own opinions.

      He's a very interesting article by one critic who doesn't even put Mayweather in his top ten fighters of all time:

      Floyd Mayweather may call himself The Best Ever... but he doesn't even make my top-10 boxers of all time | Daily Mail Online

      I've watched all of Mayweather's fights and I've watched all of Manny's fights. Manny has won belts in 8 different weight classes and he's beat fighters that were significantly bigger than he was. Based on the caliber of openents he's fought, I would still say Manny was a greater overall boxer than Mayweather based on that criteria. It's too bad he wasn't at 100% in his fight against Mayweather. He's an idiot for not delaying the fight if he knew he had an injured shoulder.

      Despite all this, I think Mayweather is a phenomenal boxer and even at age 38 and with some boxing experts saying he's lost a little bit of his step, Mayweather was still able to dominate a pretty good boxer. He is definitely one of the best since Sugar Ray Leonard. The boxing mind, the technical aspects to his game, his uncanny hand speed, and his amazingly accurate hands make him one of the best and smartest boxers out there.

      It's just too bad we didn't get to see him fight certain boxers in their prime. I hope he comes out of retirement and picks a really tough fighter for his 50ths title defense because going out with Andre Berto as the last fight was very disappointing and I don't think it was worthy of his legacy.
      I'd love to see him fight the Pacman one more time. Five, six years ago, if they had met, I think Mayweather would have made Manny stop punching etc. and fight Floyd's fight and you know what that means...

      ... but since Manny was younger, I guess there would have been another 20-25 lounges at Floyd resulting in Manny getting seriously tagged - and knocked the hell out - like Ricky Hatton but with Floyd maybe also receiving more shots to his head. The round count still would have been 8 to maybe 4 rounds at the most. And I will stipulate: Manny could have gotten lucky.

      But they also - could of had a trilogy. I think I would have payed for it. I'll pay for one now.
      Signature

      "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10278770].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      And that's what Mayweather is good at, he's good at picking fighters that he can beat. But he's also fought plenty of dangerous fighters. Cotto and Canelo were no slouches, yet Mayweather was able to beat them handily. To my recollection he has beat over 20 world title belt holders. That is no small feat. Fighters like Zab Judah and Shane Mosely were supposed to have the hand speed to match Mayweather, but that turned out not to be the case.
      I agree with most of what you said, but I'll pick at just this part:

      Cotto was always a slouch. His physical conditioning was never that great.
      He had some good looking matches because of his power and a decent amount
      of skill, but there were times he fought when no fighter should be allowed to
      go into the ring with such poor conditioning. Even at his best, does anyone
      believe he was a real match for someone of Mayweather's caliber?

      Canelo always had terrible recovery from his punches, especially his right hand,
      but even his jabs had bad recovery, and he was constantly off-balance at the
      worst possible times. Did anyone who is serious about boxing ever really think
      he would be a good challenge to Mayweather, whose entire style is made to
      take advantage of fighters like Canelo (who was not even a true master of
      his own methods)?

      Zab Judah? All he really ever had was a gimmick. Pretend to be hurt, and
      then surprise them. When he was forced to really fight (and/or box) he never
      really got anywhere against anyone noteworthy, did he?

      Shane Mosley never seemed to recover from that hit from Tarver.
      Not mentally, anyway. He never again fought with the same confidence
      that carried him so far in so many other fights. Compare his jab against
      Oscar with the one he used against Mayweather... C'mon, everyone
      could see that he was way past his prime in that one, right?

      (MMA fans may remember what happened to Mark Kerr, and this is my
      prediction for The Spider, as well... Sometimes the fighters we think
      are really great never recover from those crushing blows, not mentally.)

      Technical skills? Sure. But it's easy to make them look really good
      against people who aren't on your level, or are past their prime.


      And that's the argument against Mayweather as a fighter.
      He is good, but not truly great.
      He "looks" great because of the people he has out-boxed.
      Signature

      The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

      ...A tachyon enters a bar.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10279157].message }}

Trending Topics