by ThomM
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Anyone else around here remember the White Panthers from the 60's? Listening to the MC5 this a.m. and talking to some friends my age about the MC5 naturally led to talking about the White Panthers and John Sinclair.
Ah the good old days when being on the far left was fun
In case you didn't know the idea for the White Panthers came from Huey Newton, co-founder of the Black Panthers when he was asked what Whites could do to support the B.P.'s.
Here's their 10 point statement.
  1. Full endorsement and support of the Black Panther Party's 10-point Program.
  2. Total assault on the culture by any means necessary, including rock and roll, dope, and ******* in the streets.
  3. Free exchange of energy and materials--we demand the end of money!
  4. Free food, clothes, housing, dope, music, bodies, medical care--everything free for everybody!
  5. Free access to information media--free the technology from the greed creeps!
  6. Free time & space for all humans--dissolve all unnatural boundaries!
  7. Free all schools and all structures from corporate rule--turn the buildings over to the people at once!
  8. Free all prisoners everywhere--they are our brothers!
  9. Free all soldiers at once--no more conscripted armies!
  10. Free the people from their "leaders"--leaders suck--all power to all the people--freedom means free everyone!
Yep the good old days when being on the far left meant you tried to offend everybody instead of being offended by everything.
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    LOL - I remember them now that you mentioned them. Long time ago. Like about around the time that that huge number of people went to the pentagon and sat around it and meditated to see if they could make it levitate.

    We had a good time back then - other than Nam. People were playful and bold and nobody got "offended" by anything anyone said - they'd just call you an "**shole" and walk away. One of the reasons we didn't have as much violence.

    Anyhow - so what happened to the WP. Did they just kind of fade away or are they still around?
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    • Profile picture of the author rhondaklewis
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      We had a good time back then - other than Nam. People were playful and bold and nobody got "offended" by anything anyone said - they'd just call you an "**shole" and walk away.
      I always wonder if people who say things like this or similar have ever been offended or discriminated against.
      Not trying to start anything I am just curious.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by rhondaklewis View Post

        I always wonder if people who say things like this or similar have ever been offended or discriminated against.
        Not trying to start anything I am just curious.
        How old are you, Rhonda? I'm 60. Back in the late 60's and early 70's you could not be female and not know what it was like to be discriminated against. You have one hella lot more rights now than we had back then - in the workplace, with personal finances, etc and so on. So yeah - I had a lot of discrimination pointed in my direction.

        If you weren't alive then, it might be hard to describe how we were and actually get it across to you. There's no way for anyone under 40 - 45 to actually understand how things were. There were some basic social inequities but there was also a lot of personal freedom that young people can't even start to understand because they've never experienced it.
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by rhondaklewis View Post

        I always wonder if people who say things like this or similar have ever been offended or discriminated against.
        Not trying to start anything I am just curious.
        Discriminated against yes, offended never.
        I know I'll get some heat over this but being offended shows a weakness. It's no more then giving someone or something power over you.
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        • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          Discriminated against yes, offended never.
          I know I'll get some heat over this but being offended shows a weakness. It's no more then giving someone or something power over you.

          "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." - Eleanor Roosevelt
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      We had a good time back then - other than Nam.
      It was the drugs.
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  • "Free time & space for all humans—dissolve all unnatural boundaries!"

    Sounds cool.
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  • Profile picture of the author rhondaklewis
    I'm 50. I have only been discriminated once in my lifetime for being a woman, that I am aware of. It's hard to really know if you are being passed over for a job or getting less money because you are a women. Some jobs you can be fired just for discussing your salaries. I wonder why?
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by rhondaklewis View Post

      I'm 50. I have only been discriminated once in my lifetime for being a woman, that I am aware of. It's hard to really know if you are being passed over for a job or getting less money because you are a women. Some jobs you can be fired just for discussing your salaries. I wonder why?
      Well, I have been.

      I had my husband take money out of my bank account without my permission and the bank allowed it because we were married.

      I had someone pay me for my car by giving the check to my husband - who never gave me a cent (thus the name ex). He was able to cash the check in my name because we were married.

      I had doctors tell me they refused to do my tubal ligation without a permit signed by my husband.

      I've had 2 bosses tell me to put out or get out - and one interview that the guy wanted to know the monthly dates of my period in case I started missing work I walked out on the interview - the two bosses, I laughed and and told them if they had to use force, they weren't good enough to be with me and I'd tell everyone in the company. They just left me alone after that.

      I was trying to start a company and couldn't get a loan to do so without my husband signing that he was the company owner.

      I call that discrimination - not sure what you call it.

      Oh - and the general reaction when I got stranded in winter in the mountains and it took a 3.5 day hike to get out.............
      Several men asked me if I'd learned my lesson (meaning to stay home and be a good little housewife). I responded by telling them I learned that I was more buff than I realized at 44 and had better survival skills and sense of direction than a lot of men I know. LOL.
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      • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        I had my husband take money out of my bank account without my permission and the bank allowed it because we were married....

        I was trying to start a company and couldn't get a loan to do so without my husband signing that he was the company owner....

        ...Several men asked me if I'd learned my lesson (meaning to stay home and be a good little housewife)....
        I thought of your post when I heard this commercial today:

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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Well, I have been.

        I had my husband take money out of my bank account without my permission and the bank allowed it because we were married.

        I had someone pay me for my car by giving the check to my husband - who never gave me a cent (thus the name ex). He was able to cash the check in my name because we were married.

        I had doctors tell me they refused to do my tubal ligation without a permit signed by my husband.

        I've had 2 bosses tell me to put out or get out - and one interview that the guy wanted to know the monthly dates of my period in case I started missing work I walked out on the interview - the two bosses, I laughed and and told them if they had to use force, they weren't good enough to be with me and I'd tell everyone in the company. They just left me alone after that.

        I was trying to start a company and couldn't get a loan to do so without my husband signing that he was the company owner.

        I call that discrimination - not sure what you call it.

        Oh - and the general reaction when I got stranded in winter in the mountains and it took a 3.5 day hike to get out.............
        Several men asked me if I'd learned my lesson (meaning to stay home and be a good little housewife). I responded by telling them I learned that I was more buff than I realized at 44 and had better survival skills and sense of direction than a lot of men I know. LOL.
        Well, there was institutionalized sexism. It was that way, to a degree, all around the planet. I'm not saying it was right, just saying. There was ALSO discrimination on the OTHER side!

        A Titanic Mystery

        There were also changes made by businesses JUST to make women more comfortable, and provide for them. And all that was WITHOUT laws. As for what YOU are talking about, I believe it was in the 70s when they passed laws saying businesses couldn't ask sex or marital status when hiring.

        As for marriage, things get complicated. For one, while married, scores will be for the couple. How do you maintain scores for two of different sexes living together? I put it that way because in such a case, the law may consider them married and REALLY mess things up.

        Anyway, today, things are way too far the OTHER way. I would be all for EQUAL rights.

        As for white or black panthers, they should throw the lot of them in jail. If people want to gang up for decent protection, a club, help, etc... That is ONE thing. If it is for offense, disruption, etc.... it is quite ANOTHER. There ARE laws on the books for such things, and those groups should be just as subject to them as others.

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        Still bitter after all these years...

        There's a country song in that somewhere.


        Joe Mobley


        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Well, I have been.

        I had my husband take money out of my bank account without my permission and the bank allowed it because we were married.

        I had someone pay me for my car by giving the check to my husband - who never gave me a cent (thus the name ex). He was able to cash the check in my name because we were married.

        I had doctors tell me they refused to do my tubal ligation without a permit signed by my husband.

        I've had 2 bosses tell me to put out or get out - and one interview that the guy wanted to know the monthly dates of my period in case I started missing work I walked out on the interview - the two bosses, I laughed and and told them if they had to use force, they weren't good enough to be with me and I'd tell everyone in the company. They just left me alone after that.

        I was trying to start a company and couldn't get a loan to do so without my husband signing that he was the company owner.

        I call that discrimination - not sure what you call it.

        Oh - and the general reaction when I got stranded in winter in the mountains and it took a 3.5 day hike to get out.............
        Several men asked me if I'd learned my lesson (meaning to stay home and be a good little housewife). I responded by telling them I learned that I was more buff than I realized at 44 and had better survival skills and sense of direction than a lot of men I know. LOL.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

          Still bitter after all these years...

          There's a country song in that somewhere.


          Joe Mobley
          That's "still crazy after all these years"..................and um................

          Bitter? No - I didn't burn that bra. It died of starvation.

          Seriously - I just threw some examples of what it was like when I was younger. The discrimination didn't get in my way of getting into college and getting a real life. There's still men that think they're better than women - but there are also raging insane feminists, too. I just don't hang around with any of them. Too many kewl people around and too much to do to sweat the small stuff.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            That's "still crazy after all these years"..................and um................

            Bitter? No - I didn't burn that bra. It died of starvation.

            Seriously - I just threw some examples of what it was like when I was younger. The discrimination didn't get in my way of getting into college and getting a real life. There's still men that think they're better than women - but there are also raging insane feminists, too. I just don't hang around with any of them. Too many kewl people around and too much to do to sweat the small stuff.
            Well, males used to be pushed more, and women tended to stay below a certain level, so there were a lot of reasons why some men might have thought they were better at any general task than any woman. Of course today men aren't pushed very far, and some women REALLY push the envelope farther than science would suggest they could. I mean like women that are INCREDIBLY strong, even for a man. Of course I would have respected that much more if it happened pre 1950 or so, when people couldn't get full steroids, etc... Of course SOME things are just junk science, and limited/biased polls. Like saying women are always good multitaskers, and men never are, and men are always good at math, and women never are, and men are always aggressive, and women never are, etc...

            I LOVE how even today "scientists" would claim some things are facts even when they can't be predicted or backtraced or even recreated! If something can't be predicted, backtracked, or recreated, it just isn't scientific fact! Even with dinosaurs, which is more observation combined with some scientific THEORY, they recently got rid of at least 2 dinosaurs that "existed" when I was a kid, and have redesigned at least 3. I am not really into dinosaurs, so that may be a MASSIVE understatement! Some had that happen because of fraud that took DECADES to be exposed, and some was due to assumptions. They even found feathers on some they thought never had them. It really makes one wonder.

            Steps of the Scientific Method

            Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
    What on earth made you bring that up? (White Panthers)

    Oh man, I remember people, places, events...from that scene.

    Geez!

    Very dangerous time, but when you are young...




    And the MC5...coulda/woulda. Way too much "heat" around.

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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

      What on earth made you bring that up? (White Panthers)

      Oh man, I remember people, places, events...from that scene.

      Geez!

      Very dangerous time, but when you are young...

      John Lennon - John Sinclair - YouTube



      And the MC5...coulda/woulda. Way too much "heat" around.

      MC5 - Kick Out The Jams - Detroit 1969 - YouTube
      Like I said I was listening to the MC5 yesterday morning (I posted Ramblin Rose in the Taylor Swift thread) then at horseshoes some of us older folks where talking about the band which led to talking about Wayne Kramer and John Sinclair and of course the White Panthers. Then when I got back I noticed how some people in the redskin thread where going on about how great it was that California banned the name because it's offensive. Made me think of what the far left use to be like and how they turned into a bunch of pussies. We didn't cry about being offended back then. I can remember being in Pigeon Park in Troy singing this with a group of mixed race friends as the police "escorted" us out of the park. Back then if you understood racism you stood side by side with your brothers and sisters and they knew you got it. In todays world I can't tell you how many times I've heard "A white person can't understand racism because they're not black". Of course those are the people that are keeping racism alive but still blame it all on whites.
      Yep it was pretty dangerous if you where young back then and looked or acted a certain way. I still remember getting beat up, called names and having my life threatened for dating a black girl. Her father sent her away to life with relatives when he found out she was dating a white boy.
      When you went to a protest you could expect violence from the police or national guard, it was like a badge of honor to have been clubbed or tear gassed.
      People make a big deal out of being beaten by the police now a days. I think, been there, done that when I was only 15.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
        Thanks for nothing!

        I have work to do today and you've sent me down the memory-hole .

        Lottsa interesting people in the music biz and life back then.
        Many stories but...best to leave some things where they are.

        I'm glad you survived the times.

        We didn't have that filter of experience to go by in those days.
        That happens with time and age. (hopefully)

        Possibly the best thing to come out of all of that, besides the music, is the willingness to listen. To have a conversation and hear the other guy/gals point of view.

        A dialogue.

        I'd like to think so, anyway.
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      • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        Back then if you understood racism you stood side by side with your brothers and sisters and they knew you got it. In todays world I can't tell you how many times I've heard "A white person can't understand racism because they're not black". Of course those are the people that are keeping racism alive but still blame it all on whites.


        "It's a historic photo of two men of color. For this reason I never really paid attention to the other man, white, like me, motionless on the second step of the medal podium. I considered him a random presence, an extra in Carlos and Smith's moment, or a kind of intruder. Actually, I even thought that that guy - who seemed to be just a simpering Englishman - represented, in his icy immobility, the will to resist the change that Smith and Carlos were invoking in their silent protest. But I was wrong."
        Read the full story: The white man in that photo
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post



          Read the full story: The white man in that photo
          One of the pay channels like showtime has a documentary on the guy where he talked a lot about what happened. It was very informative.
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        • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
          Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post



          Read the full story: The white man in that photo
          "And, now... you know the rest of the story."

          That IS some story.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        Like I said I was listening to the MC5 yesterday morning (I posted Ramblin Rose in the Taylor Swift thread) then at horseshoes some of us older folks where talking about the band which led to talking about Wayne Kramer and John Sinclair and of course the White Panthers. Then when I got back I noticed how some people in the redskin thread where going on about how great it was that California banned the name because it's offensive. Made me think of what the far left use to be like and how they turned into a bunch of pussies. We didn't cry about being offended back then. I can remember being in Pigeon Park in Troy singing this with a group of mixed race friends as the police "escorted" us out of the park.
        Yeah, it IS crazy! The n word is obviously from the latin, and similar to at least one black run country in africa, and a river in africa as well. It is ALSO similar in spanish, and some related languages. I never used this word to refer to people of the race, which is ALSO named from a similar root, BTW, but it is crazy it was ever used in an offensive way. Blacks often use that word today though, both in adoration and offense. If not for them, the word might have died out.

        As for whitey? It IS an english word that fits about as well as any other to the type of person referred to. AGAIN, why take offense?

        Also, a interesting bit of trivia. In "Die Pfefferkörner - Eigentor", an episode of a german series, one of the main cast of the title characters, Themba, is black. He is the lead member that everyone loves, finds himself as the only one with TWO love interests, and everyone starts out loving him but, during most of the movie, they HATE him! WHY did they hate him? They KNEW he was good enough to make a goal on a "penalty kick", but he threw it on purpose! WHY? Because he knew the referee threw the game to them, and he wanted to keep it fair. It ends with him being a key part in breaking a ring, winning the game and trophy, and saving one of the girls that really liked him, even at the risk of looking like a fool, and nearly throwing the game AGAIN. I don't know how the members treat one another off set, but on set they seem to be nice to one another, and he got a sweet spot in the cast. His father threatened the father of another boy, with a lawsuit because his son liked a girl that liked themba, and destroyed thema's bike, and the other father just gave in. No problems. They certainly didn't have to give HIM the part. And the first and only guess given as to why Themas bike was hurt? It was obviously a soccer fan upset that he threw the game. Even the idea of jealousy didn't come up until they found a witness to the act.


        This person doesn't understand that people may use older words or descriptive words in another country OR HERE, in the US, and YEAH, people may look if you are new, acting strange, or just unusual, but otherwise he seems ok with how he was treated. BTW on my first trip to europe, my aunt told me people may stare, etc.... because they would pick me out as American. LUCKILY, it seems like they couldn't pick me out. I spoke the language, and one time even witnessed two American military guys mistreating a German in GERMANY! They thought I couldn't understand them! 8D. They WOULD have likely mistreated me, but I was there first so they couldn't lie to me like they did to the German.


        Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by Lord119906 View Post

      That's sounds very good. Looks great and friendly.
      Posts in the OT Forum don't add to your post count, so there's absolutely no point in posting these inane comments to build up to showing your sig link(s).
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      Arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with a pigeon.
      It'll just knock over all the pieces, poop on the board, and strut about like it's won anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I like the Pink Panther.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Claude is a charter member of the Pasty White Panthers.
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