Documentary, History Of Big Pharma and Natural Cures

discrat

9 years ago

You do realize your 'Sal Baiting'

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tagiscom

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

You do realize your 'Sal Baiting'

You can add Butters, to that!

Especially when he is helping to develop a multi million dollar cure for Cancer!

Obviously better than trusting a little old lady, with herbs and an almost 100% cure rate, in the 50's, (if l remember correctly)!

I haven't watched the video, but have watched other ones, and this nurse always tends to get a mention.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

On Youtube, this is the description;

Astounding revelations of various cancer cures suppressed by reptilian/Illuminati AMA and FDA.

Just sayin.

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whateverpedia 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Astounding revelations of various cancer cures suppressed by reptilian/Illuminati AMA and FDA.

Hmmm. No mention of NASA.
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- Princess Balestra 9 years ago
  
  Man, do those guys really do that?
  
  I figured their sole interest was keepin' evryone safe and well.
  
  I am so truly shocked, my eyebrows jus' flapped back over my head an' thwapped some kid in his pushchair.
  
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  Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.
  
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lanfear63

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

On Youtube, this is the description;

Astounding revelations of various cancer cures suppressed by reptilian/Illuminati AMA and FDA.

Just sayin.

Ah, you obviously did not watch it. Yes, people grab video's and make astounding, misleading claims for there content to get them viewed, but most turn out to be straightforward Docu's like this one.

I know a Vacuum Salesman that use's that strategy.

EG: "Stunning Unseen Footage Reveals Illuminati Conspiracy Showing Riccar Wiping The Floor With Hoover To Form New World Order"

Misleading, I ask you!!

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Ah, you obviously did not watch it. Yes, people grab video's and make astounding, misleading claims for there content to get them viewed, but most turn out to be straightforward Docu's like this one.

I know a Vacuum Salesman that use's that strategy.

EG: "Stunning Unseen Footage Reveals Illuminati Conspiracy Showing Riccar Wiping The Floor With Hoover To Form New World Order"

Misleading, I ask you!!

You're right, I didn't watch it. But I watched portions of it.

You're right about the descriptions. Anyone can put anything in the description. It doesn't have to pertain to the video.

But your idea of "straightforward documentary" is different from mine.

The last documentary you posted (about physics) I watched completely. It was solid information, until it became pure speculation (toward the end)

Your conclusions of what it presented were different from mine.

It's interesting how two people can see the exact same statement, and think it proves two completely different ideas. When they say "Multiple dimensions", I think you think it means something different from what they mean.

There is a new Age meaning for the same term, that is different from what physicists mean. And that leads to much confusion.

Either later today, or tomorrow (when I have half an hour to devote), I'll post a thought I have about "Multiple Earths". You should find it interesting.

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lanfear63

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

You're right, I didn't watch it. But I watched portions of it.

You're right about the descriptions. Anyone can put anything in the description. It doesn't have to pertain to the video.

But your idea of "straightforward documentary" is different from mine.

The last documentary you posted (about physics) I watched completely. It was solid information, until it became pure speculation (toward the end)

Your conclusions of what it presented were different from mine.

It's interesting how two people can see the exact same statement, and think it proves two completely different ideas. When they say "Multiple dimensions", I think you think it means something different from what they mean.

There is a new Age meaning for the same term, that is different from what physicists mean. And that leads to much confusion.

Either later today, or tomorrow (when I have half an hour to devote), I'll post a thought I have about "Multiple Earths". You should find it interesting.

I look forward to that. I would say I'm more a big picture and implications type when I view these things. Like the Quantum Physics documentary, I see a grinding to a halt senario, come so far so quickly and then discovering more, getting stuck and puzzling over possible far reaching implications, but unable to quantify, detect or measure them, where do we go from here?. Almost as if, we don't like what we are seeing now. Lets say all is well, not to worry, and throw in some speculation.

The thing is, all is not well, they are probably missing taking into account some concepts, something that occasionally, raises it's head in human experience (despite all the mis-identifications we have made on a lot of it) It still plagues us.

Would it not be exciting if they tried factoring that in, saw if it fitted in any way and finally produced a true theory of everything. Time, and a big shift in attitude and perception will tell on that one.

As for Big Pharma. I see from the history, a true imposition by some entrepreneurs for pure profit, a tight control from the powerful bodies that emerged on what is even allowed to be researched and endorsed. And in the case of cancer, not working. Bad science. It is not ok to argue, well everyone agrees, and it's endorsed by the FDA if the research to produce the products is so narrowly restricted and they don't always work and the side effects kill

Spending all that money on Radiation therapy and associated drugs for example to produce a 5 percent success rate is a joke.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I look forward to that. I would say I'm more a big picture and implications type when I view these things. Like the Quantum Physics documentary, I see a grinding to a halt senario, come so far so quickly and then discovering more, getting stuck and puzzling over possible far reaching implications, but unable to quantify, detect or measure them, where do we go from here?. Almost as if, we don't like what we are seeing now. Lets say all is well, not to worry, and throw in some speculation.

The thing is, all is not well, they are probably missing taking into account some concepts, something that occasionally, raises it's head in human experience (despite all the mis-identifications we have made on a lot of it) It still plagues us.

Would it not be exciting if they tried factoring that in, saw if it fitted in any way and finally produced a true theory of everything. Time, and a big shift in attitude and perception will tell on that one..

I don't know if a Theory Of Everything is coming. Just because it was named, doesn't mean it exists. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.

In the last 100 years, we run into the same thing at the cutting edge of discovery. There is fact, theory, educated guesses, speculation, and just fantasizing. Sometimes the lines between these things get blurred. I honestly don't know where our discoveries are leading.

But there is a difference between discovered evidence (or data) and invented speculation that fits the facts. Sometimes, we even read speculation, based on these educated guesses. And to me, that's a little too far removed for what we know to be true. To me, these are just "What if"s.

Originally Posted by lanfear63

As for Big Pharma. I see from the history, a true imposition by some entrepreneurs for pure profit, a tight control from the powerful bodies that emerged on what is even allowed to be researched and endorsed. And in the case of cancer, not working. Bad science. It is not ok to argue, well everyone agrees, and it's endorsed by the FDA if the research to produce the products is so narrowly restricted and they don't always work and the side effects kill

Spending all that money on Radiation therapy and associated drugs for example to produce a 5 percent success rate is a joke.

I'll be honest with you, the Big Pharma stuff isn't as interesting to me. Maybe I'll watch the video. But you post videos that are sometimes very borderline pseudoscience.

What I saw from this video (maybe 15 minutes of snippets) looked like serious investigation. But all well done conspiracy theories look like serious unbiased investigation.

Sometimes I can see the flaws, sometimes I can't. I won't accept these videos at face value, no matter what I personally believe. And the Big Pharma stuff is often outside my knowledge, so I just don't make judgments. (unless the argument itself is ludicrous).

But the physics stuff? I actually do know something about it. The video was mostly solid evidence based reporting. But some speculation was mixed in (particularly at the end). Not being able to tell which is which, can be aggravating. At least to me.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

As for Big Pharma. I see from the history, a true imposition by some entrepreneurs for pure profit, a tight control from the powerful bodies that emerged on what is even allowed to be researched and endorsed. And in the case of cancer, not working. Bad science. It is not ok to argue, well everyone agrees, and it's endorsed by the FDA if the research to produce the products is so narrowly restricted and they don't always work and the side effects kill

Spending all that money on Radiation therapy and associated drugs for example to produce a 5 percent success rate is a joke.

... and you're worried about the US FDA why? Aren't you across the pond? Here's what we have without the FDA. So called "natural supplements" being pawned off on people as healthy and of course ... natural.

Oregon's attorney general sued General Nutrition Corporation (GNC) Thursday, saying the popular chain knowingly sold supplements spiked with unmarked, illegal ingredients.

The ingredients, picamilon and BMPEA, also called "hidden speed," are not approved in the U.S. and are not considered either natural or safe.
They were hidden inside supplements with names such as "JetFuel Superburn" and "Phenyl Core Weight Management," the attorney general's office said.

"It is scary to know that certain products sold by GNC contain an ingredient that is not even labeled — let alone approved in the United States," Oregon Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum said in a statement.

"When Oregonians buy a dietary supplement, they deserve to know that the ingredients in the products are safe and comply with the law. There are 25 GNC stores in Oregon that sold thousands of these products over the span of a couple of years."

A spokesperson for GNC said the chain doesn't comment on pending litigation.

Dietary supplement Geri Lavrov / Getty Images

"When GNC sold products in Oregon that contained BMPEA, GNC misrepresented that the product was a lawful dietary supplement that only contained lawful dietary ingredients," the complaint reads.

Federal and state officials have been cracking down for years on allegedly natural supplements that contain hidden drug ingredients. The FDA says weight loss, body building and male enhancement products are the biggest offenders, often being marked as containing only plant products but in fact being loaded with prescription drug ingredients.
The Food and Drug Administration sent warning letters to five companies in April telling them that eight of their products listed BMPEA and telling them to stop selling them. The companies claimed a plant known as Acacia rigidula was the source of the chemical - but the FDA says the plant does not contain BMPEA.

GNC and other companies knew about the BMPEA link with acacia.
"Despite widespread knowledge that the Acacia rigidula (AR) products sold by GNC were at high risk of having been spiked with BMPEA, including knowledge by David J. Sullivan, GNC's Vice President & General Counsel, Regulatory Affairs, GNC continued to sell products that contained AR without testing these products to determine whether the product was adulterated with BMPEA or informing customers of a risk that these products were adulterated," the Oregon complaint reads.

Last February, New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman said its tests of supplements sold by a number of stores, including GNC, showed the products were not what their labels claimed to be.

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Kelley

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Last February, New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman said its tests of supplements sold by a number of stores, including GNC, showed the products were not what their labels claimed to be.

The type of testing that was done was bogus. The researcher used a method that would not find what was being looked for.

IOW, it was an intentional hit job for the purpose of generating negative publicity and the possibility of restricting sales through trumped up laws.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kelley

The type of testing that was done was bogus. The researcher used a method that would not find what was being looked for.

IOW, it was an intentional hit job for the purpose of generating negative publicity and the possibility of restricting sales through trumped up laws.

Right ... of course it was.

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Kelley

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Right ... of course it was.

May we assume that you are being quite sarcastic? I would hate to spend time countering you only to have you deny that you were being sarcastic. It would be wrong of you to deny it, because plainly you are.

The study was indeed bogus. The conclusion was made from the study that the claimed ingredients for the various products were not in the bottle. This was based on a study searching for DNA rather than the compounds that the various products contain.

It was already known that searching for the DNA but not the compounds would produce failure, but they went ahead and perforrned the studies anyway. Why? Because they had an agenda.

But don't take my word for it:

"According to the Council for Responsible Nutrition (CRN), the leading trade association for the dietary supplement and functional food industry, the DNA barcoding technology used has never been shown to be valid or appropriate for evaluating herbal and botanical content.

"These actions today by the New York State Attorney General's (AG) office smack of a self-serving publicity stunt under the guise of protecting public health," wrote CRN president and CEO Steve Mister in a response statement."

Pharma-sponsored media uses flawed study to attack supplement industry | VICTORY OVER CANCER

The purpose of herbs is to affect the metabolic pathways, not to alter DNA. This is due in part to the fact that epigenetics control gene expression and the metabolism controls epigenetics.

The best way to take herbs is to get them fresh and to either make a tea or grate them. But herbal products in capsules have a stellar safety profile and tens of millions of who continue to be quite satisfied with the results they get from them.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kelley

May we assume that you are being quite sarcastic?

Yes, you may assume that.

Originally Posted by Kelley

But don't take my word for it:

I assure you that I won't. Nor will I hold any credence to the CRN, Council for Responsible Nutrition. That would be similar to making the NRA responsible for responsible gun control. lol.

The Council for Responsible Nutrition (CRN), founded in 1973 and based in Washington, D.C., is the leading trade association representing dietary supplement and functional food manufacturers and ingredient suppliers. CRN companies produce a large portion of the dietary supplements marketed in the United States and globally

Patients need to take responsibility for their health care and keep themselves informed, as well as Drs. I don't blindly take medications without doing some research myself first and weighing the options, and the options rarely include "natural" herbal supplements if my life depends on it. Ask Steve Jobs what he thinks about alternative cures for cancer ... oh wait! He's dead.

I am retirement age and don't take a single medication, except for an occasional aspirin. A lot of people want medications and will take anything that is peddled, rather than dealing with their lives, they will take any mood altering drugs they can get their hands on, whether they actually need them or not. Or they'll take medications rather than make necessary and prudent diet and lifestyle changes to improve their health. The drug culture in this country isn't just confined to illicit drugs. We live in a society that thinks there's a pill for everything.

Big Pharma undoubtedly makes some dangerous medications, but it undoubtedly has also produced many life saving medications, and is responsible for developing medications that have saved millions of lives throughout the world. People of course accuse the pharmaceutical companies of profiteering. I don't know exactly why they expect a pharma company to spend millions in research and development of new drugs and not make some money from them, but apparently, they do.

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Kelley

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Yes, you may assume that.

I assure you that I won't. Nor will I hold any credence to the CRN, Council for Responsible Nutrition. That would be similar to making the NRA responsible for responsible gun control. lol.

Patients need to take responsibility for their health care and keep themselves informed, as well as Drs. I don't blindly take medications without doing some research myself first and weighing the options, and the options rarely include "natural" herbal supplements if my life depends on it. Ask Steve Jobs what he thinks about alternative cures for cancer ... oh wait! He's dead.

I am retirement age and don't take a single medication, except for an occasional aspirin. A lot of people want medications and will take anything that is peddled, rather than dealing with their lives, they will take any mood altering drugs they can get their hands on, whether they actually need them or not. Or they'll take medications rather than make necessary and prudent diet and lifestyle changes to improve their health. The drug culture in this country isn't just confined to illicit drugs. We live in a society that thinks there's a pill for everything.

Big Pharma undoubtedly makes some dangerous medications, but it undoubtedly has also produced many life saving medications, and is responsible for developing medications that have saved millions of lives throughout the world. People of course accuse the pharmaceutical companies of profiteering. I don't know exactly why they expect a pharma company to spend millions in research and development of new drugs and not make some money from them, but apparently, they do.

It's easy to dismiss an organization out of hand without providing a valid reason. We could as easily say - more easily in fact - that you talk through your hat and don't add anything to the conversation . See how easy that was?

The CRN said that many scientists find fault with the testing that was done. To make a valid argument against that you'd need to show that the testing was valid.

The claim was made in the press that the bottles did not contain the ingredients that were claimed. But what the tests said was that tit could not discern the DNA. Those are two different things.

But you like so many others believed the easily fooled reporters who implied the bottles were filled with sawdust or the like. That is blatantly false.

Steve Jobs was doing okay. It wasn't until he got convinced to do chemo that he rapidly went down hill and died. For someone with pancreatic cancer, he lived an extremely long time while following a natural path.

So chalk his death up to chemo, not natural medicine.

Had he and his practitioner understood that cancer is dualistic, he could have monitored his progress daily and not fallen into the trap so many natural patients can fall into. Jobs road the vegan pony to alkalizing at all costs. At some point that will stop the progress and re-encourage the cancer growth.

But as one can see it did buy him several years.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kelley

It's easy to dismiss an organization out of hand without providing a valid reason.

I provided a valid reason. Any organization that is nothing more than an advocate for the industry is just another biased zealot organization protecting the profits of that industry.

I'll let all the flood of lawsuits against the herbal charlatans speak for themselves.

In Wake of Supplements Lawsuit, GNC Agrees to Changes

Forbes Welcome

Hagens Berman Files Class-Action Lawsuit Against Walmart, Walgreens, Target and GNC over Reportedly Fraudulent Supplements

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/0...controls/?_r=0

General Nutrition Class Action Asserts GNC Made False Claims Re Supplements

Nutrex, GNC, Others Sued Over Falsely Marketed Supplements - Law360

Adulterated Herbal Supplement Class Action Lawsuit | Fake Supplements Lawsuit

https://blog.priceplow.com/supplemen...sion-nutrition

Supplement Lawsuits Piling Up in Wake of NY AG Investigation

Illinois Court to Oversee Dozens of Lawsuits Related to Alleged Herbal Supplements Fraud

Testosterone Booster Class Action Lawsuit Filed Over Herbal Supplements - AboutLawsuits.com

https://www.schmidtlaw.com/oxyelite-pro-lawsuit/

I could continue but I'm getting bored.

Originally Posted by Kelley

Steve Jobs was doing okay. It wasn't until he got convinced to do chemo that he rapidly went down hill and died. For someone with pancreatic cancer, he lived an extremely long time while following a natural path.

So chalk his death up to chemo, not natural medicine.

Steve Jobs died of stupidity. By the time he got serious and stopped fooling around with his illness, it was far too late. Alternative medicine never would have saved him and delaying a real treatment killed him. He may have died anyway, either way, but no one will ever know that.

Jobs’ “magical thinking” may have defined his business brilliance, but it could have been his downfall in his fight against cancer.

According to Steve Jobs’ biographer, Walter Isaacson, the Apple AAPL +1.74% mastermind eventually came to regret the decision he had made years earlier to reject potentially life-saving surgery in favor of alternative treatments like acupuncture, dietary supplements and juices. Though he ultimately embraced the surgery and sought out cutting-edge experimental methods, they were not enough to save him.

Jobs’ cancer had been discovered by chance during a CT scan in 2003 to look for kidney stones, during which doctors saw a “shadow” on his pancreas. Isaacson told CBS’ 60 Minutes last night that while the news was not good, the upside was that the form of pancreatic cancer from which Jobs suffered (a neuroendocrine islet tumor) was one of the 5% or so that are slow growing and most likely to be cured.

But Jobs refused surgery after diagnosis and for nine months after, favoring instead dietary treatments and other alternative methods. Isaacson says that when he asked Jobs why he had resisted it, Jobs said “I didn’t want my body to be opened…I didn’t want to be violated in that way.” His early resistance to surgery was apparently incomprehensible to his wife and close friends, who continually urged him to do it.

But there seemed to be more to his resistance than just fear of surgery.
“I think that he kind of felt that if you ignore something,” Isaacson told CBS CBS +0.00%, “if you don’t want something to exist, you can have magical thinking. And it had worked for him in the past.”

It worked in business, anyway – and brilliantly. Jobs’ employees had joked that surrounding him was a “reality distortion field,” which allowed him to make his own rules, and conjure up new products for which there was no precedent or apparent market. His capacity to create the reality he envisioned – and convince others of it – was a large part of his business success.

Another element of Jobs’ decision-making process was, according to Isaacson, his trust of his own instinct. Jobs had spent time studying Buddhism in India, and he felt it served him in his work. “The main thing I’ve learned is intuition, that the people in India are not just pure rational thinkers, that the great spiritual ones also have an intuition.”

But however well his intuition and “magical thinking” may have worked for him at work, Jobs’ postponement of surgery in favor of alternative means was a bizarre executive decision. “We talked about this a lot,” says the biographer. “He wanted to talk about it, how he regretted it. … I think he felt he should have been operated on sooner.”

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tagiscom

9 years ago

Originally Posted by RichBeck

Sal, I'm not sure how much Nutrition training is required by Medical Schools now.... BUT, I remember one Doctor saying in all his years in Medical School, he was required to take one class on Nutrition. Common sense would tell you a Doctor should know more about Nutrition than one single class... But, common sense doesn't apply to "modern" medicine...

To paraphrase Bill Maher concerning "modern" medicine, "They don't want you healthy. There is no money in health. They don't want you dead. There is no money in death. They want to keep you in the middle. That is where all the money is."

Yes, exactly, you see evidence of this all the time!

The slip, slop, slap AU advertising campaign in the 70's and around 2000, Never said, some sun exposure is good. Always, cover up, and avoid the sun like the plague!

How much water to drink, 8 cups l think it was a day, which is over the top!

We are supposed to eat 4 fruits a day, if l had any more than 2 l would get sick of it!

Exercise, 30 minutes of strenuous exercise or it isn't beneficial. Crap, common sense says Any exercise is beneficial!

My Mother fell for this one, and bought a tredmill, she got totally fed up with it, and hasn't used it in years!

The list of this crappy information goes, on, always over the top or missing vital information.

As you are saying they want chronic illness. A life long illness means a money stream!

Originally Posted by HeySal

The medical industrial complex wants to make everything chronic. That way there's life long money coming in. If they know you're dying, they'll prolong it until there's nothing left to leave to family and then let you go.

The truth is:
They know damned well what causes cancer. It's chemical exposure. For those who are about to pipe in about cancer always having been around -- so have toxins. You should have seen the crap that the Eygptians used to have in their makeups. Almost as bad as today.

They know damned well radiation and chemo is a crap shoot whether it kills the cancer or the patient first - and know it can almost ensure recurrence. Many doctors, and more all the time, are speaking up about it. Some lose their practices for doing so. Others just move out of the US.

Cancer scares people out of their ever lovin' minds. Easy targets.

Like I said. When it comes to matters of life and death - you either do the damned research and do what will save yourself or you don't. I did mine. Of course - I was in Germany when I found out that I'd been given experimental drugs (my parents were told "new" drug), and that doctor was a colleague of Dr Gerson's. We had a few very informative sessions. If I'd never gotten out of the US for that year, who knows if I'd have ever found out exactly how owned our medical system is.

Yes, Sal and they also know that if it is a life and death illness, they can pretty much charge whatever they like for the latest drug!

They don't give a f*** about you having to sell your house or end up living on the street, just as long as these CEO creatures get their money.

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whateverpedia

9 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Always, cover up, and avoid the sun like the plague!

It didn't say anything of the sort.

How much water to drink, 8 cups l think it was a day, which is over the top!

8 cups of water a day is actually very little.

Exercise, 30 minutes of strenuous exercise or it isn't beneficial

I've never heard anyone advocate strenuous exercise for any amount of time. That's why just about everyone recommends going out for a walk every day. Golf is pretty much the perfect exercise regime as you're not only going for a walk, you're also exercising your upper body as well.

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discrat

9 years ago

[quote=whateverpedia;10350392]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

I've never heard anyone advocate strenuous exercise for any amount of time. That's why just about everyone recommends going out for a walk every day. Golf is pretty much the perfect exercise regime as you're not only going for a walk, you're also exercising your upper body as well.

Surely you are joking. I hope.

If not we must be living on a different planet ?

http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercis...our-life-study
research by your own country

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

If not we must be living on a different planet ?

I've heard walking daily recommended as exercise more than any other type of exercise. Exercise doesn't need to be extreme to be effective. You don't need to be a runner or a gym rat to be fit.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I've heard walking daily recommended as exercise more than any other type of exercise. Exercise doesn't need to be extreme to be effective. You don't need to be a runner or a gym rat to be fit.

Yes of course it doesn't need to be extreme to be effective. But the more rigorous ( up to a certain point then it regresses, think extreme marathons)) , the higher probability that you will have a healthier heart and live longer.

The operative word or phrase being "higher probability".

As opposed to "guarantee"

If you think you can take a casual stroll around the block and then eat to your heart's content then you will more than likely be sorely disappointed with the results.

I work out strenous 4 to 5 times a week and have a couple of big macs a week with my kids. I couldn't do that
walking everyday . No way. I would be 300+ and in terrible shape

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tagiscom

9 years ago

[quote=whateverpedia;10350392]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Always, cover up, and avoid the sun like the plague!]/quote]
It didn't say anything of the sort.

8 cups of water a day is actually very little.

I've never heard anyone advocate strenuous exercise for any amount of time. That's why just about everyone recommends going out for a walk every day. Golf is pretty much the perfect exercise regime as you're not only going for a walk, you're also exercising your upper body as well.

For some, these findings are cause for alarm. After all, the American Heart Health Association advocated for 30 minutes of exercise a day for some time. For the people that followed that advice, that effort could feel wasted. That's not at all true, and that's why headlines like

c

Yes, they have also been rabiting this info, for some time in AU, as well. Well, it seems to have gotton worse, since they now say the more the better.

But, 30 minutes of strenuous exercise a day, is minimal to be effective.

In other words, go over board and do an unpractical level of exercise a day, so you will eventually get sick to death of it, and give up!!!!

And become unhealthy since you cannot maintain their minimal BS recommendation.

Oh,....and buy their s***!

I tend to go with the Chinese, and stay with Palates, a few times a week, but l do walk around shopping centres a few times a week also.

Water l have about 5 a day, or six. 8 if l am mowing a lawn, etc. But yet again, l am not going to drink excessively for them!!!

As for Slip, Slop, etc, go back and google that, they NEVER, say that some sun exposure is beneficial only cover up.

Or the newer one, put on sunscreen half an hour before going out and cover up. Which is worse!

Even on a hot day some exposure is good!

So called health associations will give advise so you will stay within their sweet spot of buy out s***! Well, eventually when you get fed up with it?

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Kelley

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I provided a valid reason. Any organization that is nothing more than an advocate for the industry is just another biased zealot organization protecting the profits of that industry.

I'll let all the flood of lawsuits against the herbal charlatans speak for themselves.

In Wake of Supplements Lawsuit, GNC Agrees to Changes

Forbes Welcome

Hagens Berman Files Class-Action Lawsuit Against Walmart, Walgreens, Target and GNC over Reportedly Fraudulent Supplements

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/0...controls/?_r=0

General Nutrition Class Action Asserts GNC Made False Claims Re Supplements

Nutrex, GNC, Others Sued Over Falsely Marketed Supplements - Law360

Adulterated Herbal Supplement Class Action Lawsuit | Fake Supplements Lawsuit

https://blog.priceplow.com/supplemen...sion-nutrition

Supplement Lawsuits Piling Up in Wake of NY AG Investigation

Illinois Court to Oversee Dozens of Lawsuits Related to Alleged Herbal Supplements Fraud

Testosterone Booster Class Action Lawsuit Filed Over Herbal Supplements - AboutLawsuits.com

https://www.schmidtlaw.com/oxyelite-pro-lawsuit/

I could continue but I'm getting bored.

Steve Jobs died of stupidity. By the time he got serious and stopped fooling around with his illness, it was far too late. Alternative medicine never would have saved him and delaying a real treatment killed him. He may have died anyway, either way, but no one will ever know that.

That's quite an excellent performance on your part - it's not easy to get everything wrong, but you managed.

Lawsuits based on a trumped up publicity campaign is nothing new.

The salient fact is that the accusers claimed that the ingredients in the bottles were not there. But the test that was used was incapable of finding the ingredients! So the entire witchhunt campaign is based on a highly publicized fraud.

The life expectancy of Jobs was six months. But he took an alternative approach and lived several years. Unfortunately for him, he was unaware of how the diet program he followed would eventually make him too alkaline. So after years of a positive response his cancer started growing again.

Jobs lived eight years far exceeding the life expectancy of pancreatic cancer patients. Had he known about Dualism in cancer, he'd still be alive today.

The notion that surgery would have saved his fails to address what happens when a person has surgery. Surgery turns on the hidden cancer hot spots that are undetectable. IOW, Jobs would have died in a two or three years from multiple metastases because, by the time a tumor is spotted, it has already spread through the blood stream undetected.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by mentat47

Big pharma or Big killer...
Antidepressants... they give us so they can make you addicted!

Antidepressants are not an addicting medication. If they were, I would have been addicted when I took them years ago, as I am easily addicted to anything that can be addicting. When I was ready to quit, I quit ... no sweat whatsoever.

Originally Posted by discrat

If you think you can take a casual stroll around the block and then eat to your heart's content then you will more than likely be sorely disappointed with the results.

I didn't say eat like a pig and take a casual stroll around the block. I thought it was understood that I meant walking as exercise ... a brisk, long walk. I don't defile my body with Big Macs or any fast food, nor most prepared foods. So I was never under the illusion that you could take a stroll, eat like a pig and be fit.

Originally Posted by Kelley

That's quite an excellent performance on your part - it's not easy to get everything wrong, but you managed.

Talking to alternative health nuts is so predictable and the same no matter which zealot is spouting off their propaganda. So, I'll just conclude my discussion with you with this: blah blah blah .... and blah.

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mentat47

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Antidepressants are not an addicting medication. If they were, I would have been addicted when I took them years ago, as I am easily addicted to anything that can be addicting. When I was ready to quit, I quit ... no sweat whatsoever.

I didn't say that you can't get rid of them, but most of the people have problem with antidepressants. They think that antidepressants are really helping them, but in fact they are poison them.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by mentat47

I didn't say that you can't get rid of them, but most of the people have problem with antidepressants. They think that antidepressants are really helping them, but in fact they are poison them.

Yes, you did say they were addicting. And now adding that they are a big problem and poison. Don't take them. Millions have benefited from them when suffering from clinical depression. Perhaps you've never suffered from clinical depression. You obviously are just spounting the alternative medicine BS with no real knowledge of what you are talking about. But that's true of most alternative medicine shills.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kelley

Unfortunately for him, he was unaware of how the diet program he followed would eventually make him too alkaline.

Diet doesn't change the acid/alkaline levels in our blood. It can change the PH levels in our urine but that isn't going to have anything to do with pancreatic cancer or any other cancer really. The alkaline or PH diet theory to fight cancer is pure junk science at it's worse.

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ThomM

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Diet doesn't change the acid/alkaline levels in our blood. It can change the PH levels in our urine but that isn't going to have anything to do with pancreatic cancer or any other cancer really. The alkaline or PH diet theory to fight cancer is pure junk science at it's worse.

Certainly it does. Just like it does with every other living thing.

The idea that various foods influence the pH of the body isn't new. In fact, as far back as the early 1900s, numerous doctors began studying the pH-altering effects of different foods. They found that while a few foods were "neutral" in their effects, most foods were either "alkaline-producing" or "acid-producing." They also found that simply changing the diet could change the pH of the body. Not surprisingly, bringing the body's pH closer to the normal range helped patients get rid of many of their health complaints. Proper pH Balance Is Critical for Good Health

The Alkaline Diet: Is There Evidence That an Alkaline pH Diet Benefits Health?

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butters

9 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Certainly it does. Just like it does with every other living thing.
The Alkaline Diet: Is There Evidence That an Alkaline pH Diet Benefits Health?

Ok this is kinda right and wrong... While I'm sure a diet has the ability to change blood PH the body prevent any alteration of PH levels within the blood. If these mechanisms were not in place, sure, diet would change it. Fortunately these mechanisms are in place to restore levels therefore blood PH is rarely altered (substantially and prolonged) unless your taking something substantial which food is not.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by butters

Ok this is kinda right and wrong... While I'm sure a diet has the ability to change blood PH the body prevent any alteration of PH levels within the blood. If these mechanisms were not in place, sure, diet would change it. Fortunately these mechanisms are in place therefore blood PH is rarely altered unless your taking something substantial which food is not.

I was going to say something similar. You said it because you know the physiology. I was thinking it, because that would be the intersection where the two posts (Tims and Thoms) were not connecting.

So, it was a guess.

So, I get sprinkles. Because Sprinkles are for winners.

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butters

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I was going to say something similar. You said it because you know the physiology. I was thinking it, because that would be where the two posts (Tim and Thom) were not connecting.

So, it was a guess.

So, I get sprinkles. Because Sprinkles are for winners.

You are wrong sir, donuts with sprinkles are for winners, here, enjoy a donut with me.

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Claude Whitacre 9 years ago

Originally Posted by butters

You are wrong sir, donuts with sprinkles are for winners, here, enjoy a donut with me.

I love that commercial.

We had a day recently, where I didn't sell anything, and my wife made a couple of sales.

I asked her if she wanted to go out for dinner, and she agreed. I then asked if she wanted to get ice cream later. She said, "I'm having ice cream, but not you. Ice cream is for closers"

Now, when one of us sells something expensive, we say "Sprinkles are for closers".

But a donut with sprinkles on it...sounds even better.
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ThomM

9 years ago

Originally Posted by butters

Ok this is kinda right and wrong... While I'm sure a diet has the ability to change blood PH the body prevent any alteration of PH levels within the blood. If these mechanisms were not in place, sure, diet would change it. Fortunately these mechanisms are in place to restore levels therefore blood PH is rarely altered (substantially and prolonged) unless your taking something substantial which food is not.

Really foods not substantial?
What feeds those mechanisms?
Now I'm not saying that an alkaline ph will prevent or cure cancer . Just that food can alter your ph.

In order to survive, the body must maintain the proper acid/alkaline (pH) balance. The optimum pH of the blood is somewhat alkaline, 7.3-7.4, and various tissues and organ systems vary from these numbers. Since all metabolic reactions are dependent on the pH, which is to say they only operate ideally within a certain range of pH, the organism must stabilize the blood-pH within a narrow range of between 7.36 and 7.44 (many researchers feel the range is actually much smaller). Only in this range is the blood ideally supplied with oxygen. If the blood pH goes over 7.44, there is a risk to develop degenerative conditions. The pH balance can be affected by many factors including the food we eat, stress, pollution and the quality of our thoughts and emotions. If this balance cannot be maintained, the body will begin to break down and die. The body is constantly striving to maintain this balance, and there are many processes by which this is accomplished.pH Balance - In order to survive, the body must maintain the proper acid/alkaline (pH) balance. Nutrient Rich Raw Organic Cacao - Premium Coral Calcium - Blass Therapy Homozon - Milled Peruvian Maca for optimum pH balance and nutrient enhancement.

So yes body ph and blood ph are two different things but they do effect each other

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butters

9 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Really foods not substantial?
What feeds those mechanisms?
Now I'm not saying that an alkaline ph will prevent or cure cancer . Just that food can alter your ph.
So yes body ph and blood ph are two different things but they do effect each other

Oh god... Really? The statement wasn't if food provides the body with the mechanisms to work, the question is on blood pH... Yes if them mechanisms fail, we die, we know this, that wasn't the question or discussion point.

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ThomM

9 years ago

Originally Posted by butters

Oh god... Really? The statement wasn't if food provides the body with the mechanisms to work, the question is on blood pH... Yes if them mechanisms fail, we die, we know this, that wasn't the question or discussion point.

No the point was weather or not food can alter blood ph. And it and other things can. With the narrow ph widow that blood works in it doesn't take much altering. Also it doesn't mean it's permanent and it doesn't have to be very substantial.

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butters

9 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

No the point was weather or not food can alter blood ph. And it and other things can. With the narrow ph widow that blood works in it doesn't take much altering. Also it doesn't mean it's permanent and it doesn't have to be very substantial.

As I said earlier, yes, food can change pH but only if you go crazy and take a substantial amount of one substance. A diet will not change your blood pH because the bodies various buffer system will compensate for the foods effects. It's the same for exercise, you get increased acid levels, the body compensates.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Certainly it does.

From the Nih.gov article you posted:

A low-carbohydrate high-protein diet with its increased acid load results in very little change in blood chemistry, and pH, but results in many changes in urinary chemistry...

There is no scientific literature establishing the benefit of an alkaline diet for the prevention of cancer at this time...

So that is what I said. Overall, the article says the alkaline diet "may result in a number of health benefits" but certainly isn't conclusive. Claiming the alkaline diet can prevent or even cure cancer is not correct.

Originally Posted by Star Man

That is an official medical article, right?

Yes, that repeats what I said. :/

Here's an article by an alternative medicine leader who talks about the alkaline diet myth:

It’s also true that the foods we eat change the pH of our urine. (3, 4) If you have a green smoothie for breakfast, for example, your pee a few hours later will likely be more alkaline than that of someone who had bacon and eggs. As a side note, it’s also very easy to measure your urine pH, and I think this is one of the big draws of the alkaline diet. Everyone can probably agree that it’s satisfying to see concrete improvements in health markers depending on your diet, and pH testing gives people that instant gratification they desire. However, as you’ll see below, urine pH is not a good indicator of the overall pH of the body, nor is it a good indicator of general health...

Foods don’t influence our blood pH
Proponents of the alkaline diet have put forth a few different theories about how an acidic diet harms our health. The more ridiculous claim is that we can change the pH of our blood by changing the foods we eat, and that acidic blood causes disease while alkaline blood prevents it. This is not true. The body tightly regulates the pH of our blood and extracellular fluid, and we cannot influence our blood pH by changing our diet. High doses of sodium bicarbonate can temporarily increase blood pH, but not without causing uncomfortable GI symptoms. And there are certainly circumstances in which the blood is more acidic than it should be, and this does have serious health consequences. However, this state of acidosis is caused by pathological conditions such as chronic renal insufficiency, not by whether you choose to eat a salad or a burger. In other words, regardless of what you eat or what your urine pH is, you can be pretty confident that your blood pH is hovering around a comfortable 7.4

http://chriskresser.com/the-ph-myth-part-1/

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lanfear63

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

... and you're worried about the US FDA why? Aren't you across the pond? Here's what we have without the FDA. So called "natural supplements" being pawned off on people as healthy and of course ... natural.

I am from across the pond yes, but have lived in Texas for 12 years. I miss the free health system yes, (well, paid for by your National Insurance Contributions from your salary)

It also produces a quandary, because people there get any treatment they need without paying anything extra or having to rely on complicated external insurance policies, they largely don't think about alt medicine so much. I don't know the comparative stats but I think people are a little healthier in general due to tougher restrictions on food (less sugar) and other factors and also from my own experience, I walked more, got more exercise there.

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tagiscom

9 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I look forward to that. I would say I'm more a big picture and implications type when I view these things. Like the Quantum Physics documentary, I see a grinding to a halt senario, come so far so quickly and then discovering more, getting stuck and puzzling over possible far reaching implications, but unable to quantify, detect or measure them, where do we go from here?. Almost as if, we don't like what we are seeing now. Lets say all is well, not to worry, and throw in some speculation.

The thing is, all is not well, they are probably missing taking into account some concepts, something that occasionally, raises it's head in human experience (despite all the mis-identifications we have made on a lot of it) It still plagues us.

Would it not be exciting if they tried factoring that in, saw if it fitted in any way and finally produced a true theory of everything. Time, and a big shift in attitude and perception will tell on that one.

As for Big Pharma. I see from the history, a true imposition by some entrepreneurs for pure profit, a tight control from the powerful bodies that emerged on what is even allowed to be researched and endorsed. And in the case of cancer, not working. Bad science. It is not ok to argue, well everyone agrees, and it's endorsed by the FDA if the research to produce the products is so narrowly restricted and they don't always work and the side effects kill

Spending all that money on Radiation therapy and associated drugs for example to produce a 5 percent success rate is a joke.

Originally Posted by HeySal

We posted at the same time. I used more than that, but a lot of what was important was foods, hiking in fresh air and sunshine. It's a problem of synergy and is best to be synergistic in the approach to it, I think.

Originally Posted by Kelley

Synergy is always a plus.

It's helpful as well for people to find out that if they use the most potent foods and grate them, that they can be cured even without making major lifestyle changes.Sometimes that's the biggest challenge. People don't always want to give up everything.

Grating spicy foods makes the cure 10 times more powerful as was evident in my own case.

I like to refer to the cure for scurvy as an example. For sure a multi-pronged approach would be beneficial. Yet it was two sailors who ate oranges and lemons for six days and saw one complete reversal and one partial reversal that revealed scurvy could be cured easily.

The sailors didn't need to make dramatic lifestyle changes - they just needed to eat two kinds of fruit. Similarly, this is good news for cancer patients. A couple grated spices and a person with advanced cancer can become cancer free.

There is an American Indian saying about hunting deer with a bow and arrow that might apply here:

Shoot one arrow - got deer.
Shoot two arrows - maybe got deer.
Shoot three arrows - no got deer.

To me that means if we have accurately targeted the cancer with the sharpest 'arrow' the cancer will be "got."

If we do a lot of things that improve our health, the cancer might also go away, but not necessarily.

When we "three arrow" it, ie., surgery, chemo and/or radiation, well dear, that cancer is going to run like the wind.

Btw, cancer is dualistic, which means that it flourishes when we are too acidic OR if we are too alkaline. Most alternative proponents are unaware of the alkaline part of the equation. Over alkalizing is actually worse than too much acidity.

Most of us are too acidic, but not all. Radiation, for example, can produce a localized over alkalinity even in a person who is too acidic overall and that localized imbalance can result in a cancer that kills.

Here is a Linked In article I wrote regarding the spices referred to above.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140...mp-reader-card

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

The doctors are aware of these cures, but ignore them? That's malpractice. And thy don't believe these stories of cures? Why not? If the evidence is there, surely men and women who have devoted their lives to helping others....would take advantage of these proven cures.

Then doctors never do independent studies, never research on their own?

Again, are they totally evil, every one of them? Or they don't care at all, except for the sponsored information from reps that have an agenda?

You would think that these people are among the best and the brightest, but I guess not.

I'm just glad to see that the people talking about natural cures, aren't doing it for any monetary gain. That lends credibility to the stories I hear here.

I spend maybe $75 a month on herbs and vitamins. Not that much. But it makes me feel better knowing that some of the money I spend goes back into medical research, and patient trials. It also makes me feel better that these cures are regulated, tested for quality and purity.

And I'm glad that the people recommending these cures at least have some medical training, and are required to keep up on any new information on side effects, interactions, dosages....you know, medical stuff.

That probably helps keep the charlatans away.. One thing I love about anecdotal stories, is that they can be trusted.

Originally Posted by Kelley

The type of testing that was done was bogus. The researcher used a method that would not find what was being looked for.

IOW, it was an intentional hit job for the purpose of generating negative publicity and the possibility of restricting sales through trumped up laws.

Gee, what is going on, intelligent discussion????

Even Claude is behaving himself!

Even Butters is keeping away, (last thing he want to hear is that grating herbs, is better than a 1.2 million dollar a year drug)!

This is what me and others have been saying for years, spend $5k a month on a drug, (or more) or spend $100 a month on herbs.

No, barbaric surgery, no radiation, and no chemo, which is slow, expensive and painful, (l know, l watched my Mother suffer through taking that S***)!

So much for no conspiracy theory's!

I recently read that taking vitamin B3, reduced skin cancer by 20%, (this is found in beer and Vegemite) and vitamin pills!

I found it ironic that no info, was given about getting vitamin B through sunshine!

But since this was coming from the same institution as above, the information will always be partial or excessive!

I find it pretty funny that people still trust doctors so much, or completely trust drug corporations!

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RichBeck 9 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

This is what me and others have been saying for years, spend $5k a month on a drug, (or more) or spend $100 a month on herbs.

We have a winner here....

Step back and look at it from a strictly business perspective...

You own a multi-billion dollar product with massive profit margins... Someone comes in with "alternatives" that cost a tiny fraction of your product ....

What are you going to do?

1. Fold your tent, go home, find another multi-billion dollar product with massive profit margins and a continuous stream of "new customers?"

2. Do everything in your power to discredit the quality, safety or efficacy of their product?

I'm betting you choose #2 every time....

The VERY SAD aspect of all this is..... I had three loved ones who all followed the "traditional cancer treatment" protocols.... all died within a few years. None of their Oncologists had enough basic nutrition knowledge to suggest an organic vegan diet.

One friend who had "six months to live" is alive and well twenty years later... Because he refused "traditional cancer treatment" and went on an organic vegan diet.

If you watch the documentary Forks Over Knives, you'll see why a vegan diet is so important to those fighting cancer. In a nutshell, dairy and meat "turn on" cancer cell growth. Plant based foods do not.
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ThomM

9 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

You can add Butters, to that!

Especially when he is helping to develop a multi million dollar cure for Cancer!

Obviously better than trusting a little old lady, with herbs and an almost 100% cure rate, in the 50's, (if l remember correctly)!

I haven't watched the video, but have watched other ones, and this nurse always tends to get a mention.

You don't

It was in the 20's and the nurses name was Rene Caisse.

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discrat 9 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Obviously better than trusting a little old lady, with herbs and an almost 100% cure rate,I

Didn't realize that 71 was considered a little old lady these days

Anymore anything under 80 is still youthful in a lot of respects to me
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Claude Whitacre 9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

You do realize your 'Sal Baiting'

It's called SALivating.
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- discrat 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
  
  It's called SALivating.
  
  You are correct, sir. It was a play of words in the original work
  
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HeySal

9 years ago

Okay - consider Sal baited. Don't have time though because I'll be Salibrating in a little while.

Anyway - the book Cancer: The Cure That Worked...50 Years of Suppression
is the best I've seen for showing step by step how cures are suppressed and the channels that have been taken to completely control our medical industrial complex. It's well researched and documented.

All anyone really needs to do to understand the "system" is poke around on PubMed for awhile - follow the money on funding for a few of the articles that don't make it into the journals and a few that do. When I needed to kill cancer - I just looked at the raw research from independent medical research institutions. Since I didn't know the geneology factors, etc. I just used anything and everything that had no side effects, wasn't dangerous in combo or alone. There are many that do different things via different paths - so I just used everything safe. Took in the cannons so to speak. It's really that simple.

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Kelley

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Okay - consider Sal baited. Don't have time though because I'll be Salibrating in a little while.

Anyway - the book Cancer: The Cure That Worked...50 Years of Suppression
is the best I've seen for showing step by step how cures are suppressed and the channels that have been taken to completely control our medical industrial complex. It's well researched and documented.

All anyone really needs to do to understand the "system" is poke around on PubMed for awhile - follow the money on funding for a few of the articles that don't make it into the journals and a few that do. When I needed to kill cancer - I just looked at the raw research from independent medical research institutions. Since I didn't know the geneology factors, etc. I just used anything and everything that had no side effects, wasn't dangerous in combo or alone. There are many that do different things via different paths - so I just used everything safe. Took in the cannons so to speak. It's really that simple.

Amen! I'm with you - natural is the way to go.

Not too long ago researchers are UCLA and at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center did two different studies. At UCLA, they found that radiation makes stem cells 30 times more malignant.

At Hutchinson the researchers determined that chemo makes cancer spread faster by increasing fibroblast production. Fibroblasts are the mother's milk of cancer growth.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kelley

Amen! I'm with you - natural is the way to go.

.

Please do not say this with a sweeping generalization.

Its counter productive and in some regards wreckless . The fact of the matter is there is conclusive evidence that natural remedies have indeed helped in successfully defeating cancer patients in some cases.

BUT

to say that natural is the way to go for everyone in every Cancer case is just irresponsible.

The fact is it is NOT the way to go for everyone with Cancer. The technologies and Advancement they have made in medicine and chemo that have gotten people cured of cancer is incredible and indisputable.

Many of these people would not have been cured going off on some "quack binge" full of natural remedies.

Thats just fact !

So please lets keep in perspective

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Kelley

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Please do not say this with a sweeping generalization.

Its counter productive and in some regards wreckless . The fact of the matter is there is conclusive evidence that natural remedies have indeed helped in successfully defeating cancer patients in some cases.

BUT

to say that natural is the way to go for everyone in every Cancer case is just irresponsible.

The fact is it is NOT the way to go for everyone with Cancer. The technologies and Advancement they have made in medicine and chemo that have gotten people cured of cancer is incredible and indisputable.

Many of these people would not have been cured going off on some "quack binge" full of natural remedies.

Thats just fact !

So please lets keep in perspective

In my experiences, herbs are far, far superior to surgery, chemo and radiation. All three of those harsh and hurtful approaches PROMOTE cancer activity. Nothing that promotes cancer activity can be in the same ballpark as herbs that reduce and eliminate cancer.

Thus it is truly misguided and irresponsible to recommend any of those three harmful modalities to any cancer patient.

Maybe you should stop using inflammatory language. Referring to herbal remedies as "quack fringe" does nothing to further the conversation. In Germany, to procure a medical license the doctors must pass a test that includes the subject of herbs. Are German doctors quack fringes?

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kelley

In my experiences, herbs are far, far superior to surgery, chemo and radiation. All three of those approaches PROMOTE cancer activity.
Thus it is truly misguided and irresponsible to recommend any of those three harmful modalities to any cancer patient.

Wow, all I can say is WOW!! I will have to exit the Forum on this note. Iam feeling nauseated. Good night all

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Kelley 9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Wow, all I can say is WOW!! I will have to exit the Forum on this note. Iam feeling nauseated. Good night all

If you prefer to go the FDA-brand route, those options should be available to you for some time to come. They've already buried 20 million or more in the US and don't mind continuing down that path.

I saw a guy tonight. His name is Eddie. Three months ago Eddie was in the hospital full of fluid, swollen, ashen and weighing 355 pounds due to all the fluid. He had cancer in his spine and a couple other places.

His doctors didn't have any more treatment for him.

He has been eating grated ginger and raw organic honey since then, as well as consuming 50 drops of organic soy sauce in a little water to rid himself of the fluid. After getting out of the hospital he couldn't so much as be taken to a local store he was in so much pain.

He could not even get into bed which meant he had to get whatever sleep he could in an uncomfortable recliner. Laying flat made it impossible for him to breathe due to the fluid pressure from his hugely swollen abdomen.

His legs were also grossly swollen.

As of tonight, Eddie has dropped 95 pounds. His back pain is down from a 10 to a two or three. The pain in his back is much more sporadic whereas before it was frequent. He has a slight amount of itching in his back which means he has a little bit more to go for a complete recovery.

A month ago he was able to go for a five-hour car trip and felt a little stiff, that is all.

His skin looks darker and has a normal glow to it.

This man was going to die. Either the fluid would get him in his lungs or the cancer would do him in. He might have died already if he had not started on the soy sauce and ginger with honey.

But now he is on the road to recovery.

As I might have mentioned before, UCLA and the Fred Hutchinson Center researchers have found that radiation and chemo promote cancer growth. So you can be wedded to it if you wish, but don't say you weren't warned.
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lanfear63 9 years ago

Assuming the Documentary was reporting factual information (and I expect it can be verified ), there seems to have been a period of time between the quackary of things like blood letting and the like, (call it dark age misguided treatments) where a lot of new info about the body and it's workings were discovered.

A period of time where herbalists were thriving and drawing on the sum of prior knowledge in natural remedies. They appeared to be well organised and relatively successful. You had medical institutions researching this as well.

Then, it was taken away by the pharma advocates money and discredited.

So, my query is, how successful in this golden age of the natural remedy was it in treating ailments?
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Kelley

9 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Made a few years ago so not HD.

Good insights into how Big Pharma came about and how they now dominate medicine and how and why they suppress research into or any acceptance of natural cures. Basically Greed. Over 90 minutes but well worth watching.

Cancer The Forbidden Cures! - YouTube

I cured my Stage 4 cancer 17 years ago using a couple foods you can buy in the grocery store. In two weeks my visible lesions were gone - twice. It was twice because they went away the first time in 4-5 days, so I stopped only to have four of them start to return.

There were a dozen lesions originally that went from my calves and hips up to my upper back.

None of them have ever returned.

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HeySal

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kelley

I cured my Stage 4 cancer 17 years ago using a couple foods you can buy in the grocery store. In two weeks my visible lesions were gone - twice. It was twice because they went away the first time in 4-5 days, so I stopped only to have four of them start to return.

There were a dozen lesions originally that went from my calves and hips up to my upper back.

None of them have ever returned.

We posted at the same time. I used more than that, but a lot of what was important was foods, hiking in fresh air and sunshine. It's a problem of synergy and is best to be synergistic in the approach to it, I think.

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Kelley

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

We posted at the same time. I used more than that, but a lot of what was important was foods, hiking in fresh air and sunshine. It's a problem of synergy and is best to be synergistic in the approach to it, I think.

Synergy is always a plus.

It's helpful as well for people to find out that if they use the most potent foods and grate them, that they can be cured even without making major lifestyle changes.Sometimes that's the biggest challenge. People don't always want to give up everything.

Grating spicy foods makes the cure 10 times more powerful as was evident in my own case.

I like to refer to the cure for scurvy as an example. For sure a multi-pronged approach would be beneficial. Yet it was two sailors who ate oranges and lemons for six days and saw one complete reversal and one partial reversal that revealed scurvy could be cured easily.

The sailors didn't need to make dramatic lifestyle changes - they just needed to eat two kinds of fruit. Similarly, this is good news for cancer patients. A couple grated spices and a person with advanced cancer can become cancer free.

There is an American Indian saying about hunting deer with a bow and arrow that might apply here:

Shoot one arrow - got deer.
Shoot two arrows - maybe got deer.
Shoot three arrows - no got deer.

To me that means if we have accurately targeted the cancer with the sharpest 'arrow' the cancer will be "got."

If we do a lot of things that improve our health, the cancer might also go away, but not necessarily.

When we "three arrow" it, ie., surgery, chemo and/or radiation, well dear, that cancer is going to run like the wind.

Btw, cancer is dualistic, which means that it flourishes when we are too acidic OR if we are too alkaline. Most alternative proponents are unaware of the alkaline part of the equation. Over alkalizing is actually worse than too much acidity.

Most of us are too acidic, but not all. Radiation, for example, can produce a localized over alkalinity even in a person who is too acidic overall and that localized imbalance can result in a cancer that kills.

Here is a Linked In article I wrote regarding the spices referred to above.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140...mp-reader-card

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

I can only come to one of two conclusions, based on the last few posts;

1) Oncologists are simply not aware of these treatments. Meaning, despite having a decade or more of intense medical training, and probably years of study, after they become an oncologist.....they simply don't know about the remarkable cures that are being discussed.

Maybe, the websites that show these cures, and describe them in detail, are not available to oncologists. Perhaps we have sources of information, they simply do not have.

Or.....

2) Oncologists are aware of these natural cures.......every oncologist on the planet is simply not interested in helping their patients. They have no interest in medicine, treatments, or cures. And it's an all inclusive conspiracy of literally every medical professional.....to drain the rest of the public of their money, with no attempt to actually help them.

A simple exercise will show us which is true. Oncologists and their loved ones also get cancer, just like the rest of us. Which natural remedy do they use, in secret, to treat themselves and their loved ones?

If we know the answer to that, we know if they are either completely ignorant of how cancer works, and the miracle cures out there...or if they know that miracle cures are real, and are just keeping it all from the rest of the world.

Am I missing something? I must be. It's the only possible explanation.

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Kelley

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I can only come to one of two conclusions, based on the last few posts;

1) Oncologists are simply not aware of these treatments. Meaning, despite having a decade or more of intense medical training, and probably years of study, after they become an oncologist.....they simply don't know about the remarkable cures that are being discussed.

Maybe, the websites that show these cures, and describe them in detail, are not available to oncologists. Perhaps we have sources of information, they simply do not have.

Or.....

2) Oncologists are aware of these natural cures.......every oncologist on the planet is simply not interested in helping their patients. They have no interest in medicine, treatments, or cures. And it's an all inclusive conspiracy of literally every medical professional.....to drain the rest of the public of their money, with no attempt to actually help them.

A simple exercise will show us which is true. Oncologists and their loved ones also get cancer, just like the rest of us. Which natural remedy do they use, in secret, to treat themselves and their loved ones?

If we know the answer to that, we know if they are either completely ignorant of how cancer works, and the miracle cures out there...or if they know that miracle cures are real, and are just keeping it all from the rest of the world.

Am I missing something? I must be. It's the only possible explanation.

The doctors are aware, but 99% don't believe it and dismiss it which is about the same as not knowing.

An automatic rejection takes place in their minds because they are trained to accept only that which has been given the imprimatur of the FDA.

Another factor is that medical residents are required to meet weekly with drug reps during their 3-4 years of residency. The drug reps use that time to feed the budding, harried doctors. If someone feeds you for four years, they become your trusted friend.

Once the doctors are in practice the drug reps never mention grating spices to the doctors. At the same time, the medical journals, many of which are supported by hundreds of millions of dollars from the drug industry but zero dollars from the spice industry, have a sordid history of condemning natural treatments.

There are doctors who seek out alternative cancer cures when it is their butt on the line. Their diagnosis is a wake up call for them. They've seen too much. Of course the clinics are not allowed to advertise the doctors' names or even confirm they were treated there.

One modality confirms this: intravenous vitamin C which is also used to heal the arteries. A manufacturer found that they were selling to three times as many doctors as who used the supplies in their practices. These doctors were treating themselves and their family members but not prescribing it for their patients!

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

The doctors are aware of these cures, but ignore them? That's malpractice. And thy don't believe these stories of cures? Why not? If the evidence is there, surely men and women who have devoted their lives to helping others....would take advantage of these proven cures.

Then doctors never do independent studies, never research on their own?

Again, are they totally evil, every one of them? Or they don't care at all, except for the sponsored information from reps that have an agenda?

You would think that these people are among the best and the brightest, but I guess not.

I'm just glad to see that the people talking about natural cures, aren't doing it for any monetary gain. That lends credibility to the stories I hear here.

I spend maybe $75 a month on herbs and vitamins. Not that much. But it makes me feel better knowing that some of the money I spend goes back into medical research, and patient trials. It also makes me feel better that these cures are regulated, tested for quality and purity.

And I'm glad that the people recommending these cures at least have some medical training, and are required to keep up on any new information on side effects, interactions, dosages....you know, medical stuff.

That probably helps keep the charlatans away.. One thing I love about anecdotal stories, is that they can be trusted.

I'm joking.

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Kelley

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

The doctors are aware of these cures, but ignore them? That's malpractice. And thy don't believe these stories of cures? Why not? If the evidence is there, surely men and women who have devoted their lives to helping others....would take advantage of these proven cures.

Then doctors never do independent studies, never research on their own?

Again, are they totally evil, every one of them? Or they don't care at all, except for the sponsored information from reps that have an agenda?

You would think that these people are among the best and the brightest, but I guess not.

I'm just glad to see that the people talking about natural cures, aren't doing it for any monetary gain. That lends credibility to the stories I hear here.

I spend maybe $75 a month on herbs and vitamins. Not that much. But it makes me feel better knowing that some of the money I spend goes back into medical research, and patient trials. It also makes me feel better that these cures are regulated, tested for quality and purity.

And I'm glad that the people recommending these cures at least have some medical training, and are required to keep up on any new information on side effects, interactions, dosages....you know, medical stuff.

That probably helps keep the charlatans away.. One thing I love about anecdotal stories, is that they can be trusted.

Doctors typically ignore the alternative methods because they don't believe it, as I tried to address above.

Doctors in private practice do not do research because they don't have time or the money. They work long hours treating patients, visiting them in the hospital, and doing procedures. The clinical and the research communities are really two distinct groups with little overlap.

When there is research much of it is paid for by drug companies. If they want the next grant and the next one after that, they'd better produce the results the drug company is looking for. That's why drug company funded research has been positive almost 100% of the time.

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Cali16

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kelley

The doctors are aware, but 99% don't believe it and dismiss it which is about the same as not knowing.

An automatic rejection takes place in their minds because they are trained to accept only that which has been given the imprimatur of the FDA.

I'm sorry, but I think it's completely unfair to make such sweeping assumptions and pejorative generalizations about "99%" of medical doctors. Basically what you're saying is that almost all doctors are incapable of critical thinking and forming their own opinions, and instead are mere lemmings who blindly agree with (and have been dumbed down by) Big Pharma (due to the clever seduction of Big P's drug reps).

I'm not a fan of Big Pharma, but I'm also wary of quack "cures" (of which there are far too many). I do believe that nutrition protocols and some types of alternative treatments can cure cancer - in some cases, but not all. I also believe that many people who pursue alternative treatments end up dying, when traditional treatment (harsh as it can be) likely would have saved their lives had they gone that route when they were first diagnosed.

Not to mention, sometimes the cancer simply is too aggressive or was diagnosed too late for any treatment - traditional or alternative - to save the person. My second oldest sister died 5 years ago from the most aggressive form of leukemia. Yes, 9 months of aggressive treatment with Western medicine wasn't able to save her, but her prognosis was very poor (I think they gave her a 5 to 10% chance of surviving) from the beginning. I highly doubt (but of course, won't ever know) that alternative treatments would have saved her either.

All doctors aren't idiots who blindly follow and agree with everything they are taught in medical school. Many challenge the system and question the status quo. However, licensing boards and state and federal laws dictate the parameters of how they can practice, so sometimes their hands are tied. I experienced that myself in my practice in clinical psychology. It's part of the reason I finally left the field after many years. There were laws I simply didn't (and still don't) agree with, but I had to follow them. I questioned a lot of things I learned in grad school. Many, if not most, medical doctors aren't any different. Having worked closely with many physicians, I know first hand that a lot of them often struggle with and question laws and required protocols.

So please don't be so quick to throw the vast majority of medical doctors under the bus and assume the worst. Those types of statements and blanket assumptions just make you look foolish and arrogant.

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Kelley

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

I'm sorry, but I think it's completely unfair to make such sweeping assumptions and pejorative generalizations about "99%" of medical doctors. Basically what you're saying is that almost all doctors are incapable of critical thinking and forming their own opinions, and instead are mere lemmings who blindly agree with (and have been dumbed down by) Big Pharma (due to the clever seduction of Big P's drug reps).

I'm not a fan of Big Pharma, but I'm also wary of quack "cures" (of which there are far too many). I do believe that nutrition protocols and some types of alternative treatments can cure cancer - in some cases, but not all. I also believe that many people who pursue alternative treatments end up dying, when traditional treatment (harsh as it can be) likely would have saved their lives had they gone that route when they were first diagnosed.

Not to mention, sometimes the cancer simply is too aggressive or was diagnosed too late for any treatment - traditional or alternative - to save the person. My second oldest sister died 5 years ago from the most aggressive form of leukemia. Yes, 9 months of aggressive treatment with Western medicine wasn't able to save her, but her prognosis was very poor (I think they gave her a 5 to 10% chance of surviving) from the beginning. I highly doubt (but of course, won't ever know) that alternative treatments would have saved her either.

All doctors aren't idiots who blindly follow and agree with everything they are taught in medical school. Many challenge the system and question the status quo. However, licensing boards and state and federal laws dictate the parameters of how they can practice, so sometimes their hands are tied. I experienced that myself in my practice in clinical psychology. It's part of the reason I finally left the field after many years. There were laws I simply didn't (and still don't) agree with, but I had to follow them. I questioned a lot of things I learned in grad school. Many, if not most, medical doctors aren't any different. Having worked closely with many physicians, I know first hand that a lot of them often struggle with and question laws and required protocols.

So please don't be so quick to throw the vast majority of medical doctors under the bus and assume the worst. Those types of statements and blanket assumptions just make you look foolish and arrogant.

Doctors are not idiots. They are the best and the brightest in most cases. I agree with most of what you said about the straight jackets they find themselves in legally.

I thoroughly disagree that there is an equivalence between FDA-brand nostrums and the far superior herbal remedies.

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GlobalTrader

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I can only come to one of two conclusions, based on the last few posts;

1) Oncologists are simply not aware of these treatments. Meaning, despite having a decade or more of intense medical training, and probably years of study, after they become an oncologist.....they simply don't know about the remarkable cures that are being discussed.

Maybe, the websites that show these cures, and describe them in detail, are not available to oncologists. Perhaps we have sources of information, they simply do not have.

Or.....

2) Oncologists are aware of these natural cures.......every oncologist on the planet is simply not interested in helping their patients. They have no interest in medicine, treatments, or cures. And it's an all inclusive conspiracy of literally every medical professional.....to drain the rest of the public of their money, with no attempt to actually help them.

A simple exercise will show us which is true. Oncologists and their loved ones also get cancer, just like the rest of us. Which natural remedy do they use, in secret, to treat themselves and their loved ones?

If we know the answer to that, we know if they are either completely ignorant of how cancer works, and the miracle cures out there...or if they know that miracle cures are real, and are just keeping it all from the rest of the world.

Am I missing something? I must be. It's the only possible explanation.

Claude,

You may find this article from May 2014 interesting in regards to your take on the matter being discussed:

Most doctors who were terminally ill would AVOID aggressive treatment | Daily Mail Online

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HeySal

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I can only come to one of two conclusions, based on the last few posts;

1) Oncologists are simply not aware of these treatments. Meaning, despite having a decade or more of intense medical training, and probably years of study, after they become an oncologist.....they simply don't know about the remarkable cures that are being discussed.

Maybe, the websites that show these cures, and describe them in detail, are not available to oncologists. Perhaps we have sources of information, they simply do not have.

Or.....

2) Oncologists are aware of these natural cures.......every oncologist on the planet is simply not interested in helping their patients. They have no interest in medicine, treatments, or cures. And it's an all inclusive conspiracy of literally every medical professional.....to drain the rest of the public of their money, with no attempt to actually help them.

A simple exercise will show us which is true. Oncologists and their loved ones also get cancer, just like the rest of us. Which natural remedy do they use, in secret, to treat themselves and their loved ones?

If we know the answer to that, we know if they are either completely ignorant of how cancer works, and the miracle cures out there...or if they know that miracle cures are real, and are just keeping it all from the rest of the world.

Am I missing something? I must be. It's the only possible explanation.

You missed the third option. Not allowed to be given in the US. Vitamin B17 is not allowed in the US at all. However - it was an element in one of the foods that I gave Ricky to cure him, and it kills cancer cells. How about oxygenation? You can find it now - it's spendy and it's rare so you will have to go where they will give it to you. The doctor will be a natureopath.

What you have to understand, Claude, is that the pharmaceutical moguls approve our doctor's college curriculums. Doctors are not taught anything about nutrition. Nurses know more about nutrition than the average doctors. They are taught drugs. Every now and again a doctor will buck the system when they get frustrated enough because their hands are tied for what they can and can't do in the mainstream AMA system, and they will learn natural remedies.

Also - doctors don't have time to go over all the research - they read what's in the journals. That is selected and edited by people who get paid to keep certain information out of the mainstream.

It's no different than veterinary. My sister's vet wanted to know how Ricky was getting better and she didn't really know much except the turmeric -- the vet said that was a good idea. Well - why wasn't she told that in the first place? Same reason they won't tell you fluoride in a dog's water will cause tumors. They aren't supposed to. You can ask and they can answer honestly (if they know), but they are not allowed to volunteer that information. And I got that info from a few vets I've talked to about how tied their hands are.

Word is getting out. You know all those "natural health" and "conspiracy" sites? A lot of those are just IMers who copy their info from everyone else - but very often the original source will have known the ins, outs, and whys, of those things. The copiers aren't that smart - but you can go to those sites, look up something they are talking about on Pub Med and find real medical studies that might not have made the journals. Sometimes the site might be all wet - but the study will uncover that one.

If you want to know your doctor's limitations - go look at the course descriptions they take in college. If you want to know why something isn't allowed that is medically known to aid or cure..........look up medical legal.

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RichBeck

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

What you have to understand, Claude, is that the pharmaceutical moguls approve our doctor's college curriculums. Doctors are not taught anything about nutrition. Nurses know more about nutrition than the average doctors. They are taught drugs. Every now and again a doctor will buck the system when they get frustrated enough because their hands are tied for what they can and can't do in the mainstream AMA system, and they will learn natural remedies.

Sal, I'm not sure how much Nutrition training is required by Medical Schools now.... BUT, I remember one Doctor saying in all his years in Medical School, he was required to take one class on Nutrition. Common sense would tell you a Doctor should know more about Nutrition than one single class... But, common sense doesn't apply to "modern" medicine...

To paraphrase Bill Maher concerning "modern" medicine, "They don't want you healthy. There is no money in health. They don't want you dead. There is no money in death. They want to keep you in the middle. That is where all the money is."

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HeySal

9 years ago

Originally Posted by RichBeck

Sal, I'm not sure how much Nutrition training is required by Medical Schools now.... BUT, I remember one Doctor saying in all his years in Medical School, he was required to take one course on Nutrition. Common sense would tell you a Doctor should know more about Nutrition than one single class... But, common sense doesn't apply to "modern" medicine...

To paraphrase Bill Maher concerning "modern" medicine, "They don't want you healthy. There is no money in health. They don't want you dead. There is no money in death. They want to keep you in the middle. That is where all the money is."

The medical industrial complex wants to make everything chronic. That way there's life long money coming in. If they know you're dying, they'll prolong it until there's nothing left to leave to family and then let you go.

The truth is:
They know damned well what causes cancer. It's chemical exposure. For those who are about to pipe in about cancer always having been around -- so have toxins. You should have seen the crap that the Eygptians used to have in their makeups. Almost as bad as today.

They know damned well radiation and chemo is a crap shoot whether it kills the cancer or the patient first - and know it can almost ensure recurrence. Many doctors, and more all the time, are speaking up about it. Some lose their practices for doing so. Others just move out of the US.

Cancer scares people out of their ever lovin' minds. Easy targets.

Like I said. When it comes to matters of life and death - you either do the damned research and do what will save yourself or you don't. I did mine. Of course - I was in Germany when I found out that I'd been given experimental drugs (my parents were told "new" drug), and that doctor was a colleague of Dr Gerson's. We had a few very informative sessions. If I'd never gotten out of the US for that year, who knows if I'd have ever found out exactly how owned our medical system is.

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HeySal

9 years ago

RichBeck - get used to it. This is an IM forum and most of these people that really want to rage at someone for anythng scientific...........have absolutely no education in anything they are raspberrying you for saying.

The way I see it, if people can't figure out health stats and know something is wrong, then let them run to their AMA medical industrial complex rep and take their chances. Not my problem who croaks themselves.

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Princess Balestra

9 years ago

I jus' wanna be fit to do all the stuff I need to do, and so I exercise myself accordingly.

I do not need to run a marathon every day, and prolly won't start till they release lions in the shopping mall.

I figured early on that push-ups gonna snap me in half, most sport is bad news for footwear with heels, and any medication with more'n 6 syllables turns me into a diarrhea fountain jus' tryin' to read the label.

So what options does that leave me?

Walkin', dancin', yogain', writin', shoppin' -- hey, alla the usual stuff I usually do, an' I'm fit for that.

If things change, then I'll do sumthin' diffrent, but for now, I'm in good shape, I still got all my own teeth, and have yet to light up a room with my gangreny odors.

I do not need rhino butt abs, guts rotted by swanko exercise drink, or any kinda bandy leg-o rickets from ridin' no stupid bike nailed to the frickin' floor.

Guess that makes me a chonic skeptic of all the healtho schwango, and mebbe I'll be one of the stoopid people who hits on reaper's soft caress too late, but I ain't gonna be spooked into emptyin' my purse on a whim and edgin' my way round every shadow outta fear.

That's like a rookie version of the frozen kid deal.

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Wave goodbye to influenza, smallpox, and syphillis, and say hello to a cocktail of anaesthetizing chemicals guaranteed to poise you perfectly between life and death.
Begin again with Carcino-GEN.

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mentat47

9 years ago

Big pharma or Big killer...

One of the most horrible things I read on internet was about the viruses like AIDS and cancer. Do you know that AIDS was created in US - New York and the reason for creating that deadly virus was to kill poor and innocent people in Africa! And cancer... we all know that we have that in our body and we can activate only if our immune system is down.

Antidepressants... they give us so they can make you addicted!

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butters

9 years ago

Originally Posted by mentat47

Big pharma or Big killer...

One of the most horrible things I read on internet was about the viruses like AIDS and cancer. Do you know that AIDS was created in US - New York and the reason for creating that deadly virus was to kill poor and innocent people in Africa! And cancer... we all know that we have that in our body and we can activate only if our immune system is down.

Antidepressants... they give us so they can make you addicted!

The crazy come on heavy here... The man made AIDS theory is heavily rejected by scientists OUTSIDE of pharma companies. Is it possible that a disease such as AIDS and cancer wasn't the work of pharma?

I tried so hard to stay away

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mentat47

9 years ago

Originally Posted by butters

The crazy come on heavy here... The man made AIDS theory is heavily rejected by scientists OUTSIDE of pharma companies. Is it possible that a disease such as AIDS and cancer wasn't the work of pharma?

I tried so hard to stay away

Really? The explain me why now was appeared articles on internet where scientist discuss bout the cure? Bees venom maybe?

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butters 9 years ago

Originally Posted by mentat47

Really? The explain me why now was appeared articles on internet where scientist discuss bout the cure? Bees venom maybe?

"Internet" being the key word here. Oh god... not even going into this. Sure, just pump all cancer patients full of bee venom, whats the worse that could happen.
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Cali16

9 years ago

Originally Posted by mentat47

One of the most horrible things I read on internet <snip>

Of course we all know that if you read something on the Internet, it must be true...

Originally Posted by mentat47

Antidepressants... they give us so they can make you addicted!

The reason some people believe antidepressants (primarily SSRIs and SNRIs) are addictive is due to the fact that a small percentage of individuals experience moderate to severe withdrawal symptoms if they stop the medication abruptly after taking it for several weeks or longer. It's called SSRI discontinuation syndrome and can include flu-like and other unpleasant symptoms. The withdrawal effects can usually be avoided by gradually tapering down the dose.

Despite the potential withdrawal symptoms, antidepressants aren't "addictive" in the same way as alcohol, narcotics, benzodiazepines (e.g. Xanax, Valium), and many recreational drugs. They're not fast-acting, they don't produce any type of euphoria or "high", and you don't build up a tolerance to them (i.e. requiring increasingly higher doses to achieve the same benefits). Cravings for the substance, another common indicator of addiction, also don't occur with antidepressants.

This article talks about this discontinuation syndrome - Going off antidepressants - Harvard Health - if you want to learn more about it.

As for whether or not they're "poison" - they're a drug, so they come with potential adverse side effects, which is not only true of every medication on the market, but also true of many, if not most, herbal and other "natural" remedies. There's the potential to experience adverse effects from taking almost anything, especially if you use too much of it. Many herbs and even many foods have the potential to be quite toxic. Even drinking excessive amounts of water (water intoxication) can be highly toxic - and potentially deadly - because it causes an imbalance in your electrolytes.

Btw, I'm not a huge fan of antidepressants (or medication in general). I've personally seen antidepressants fail a lot of people (or provide minimal benefit, at best), but they definitely do really help some people. I'm more an advocate of lifestyle changes and therapy for mild to moderate depression (and many other disorders and conditions, depending on the severity and other factors).

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Claude Whitacre 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

This article talks about this withdrawal syndrome - Going off antidepressants - Harvard Health - if you want to learn more about it.

Harvard Medical School?

Elitist!
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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

Of course we all know that if you read something on the Internet, it must be true...

The reason some people believe antidepressants (primarily SSRIs and SNRIs) are addictive is due to the fact that a small percentage of individuals experience moderate to severe withdrawal symptoms if they stop the medication abruptly after taking it for several weeks or longer. It's called SSRI discontinuation syndrome and can include flu-like and other unpleasant symptoms. The withdrawal effects can usually be avoided by gradually tapering down the dose.

Despite the potential withdrawal symptoms, antidepressants aren't "addictive" in the same way as alcohol, narcotics, benzodiazepines (e.g. Xanax, Valium), and many recreational drugs. They're not fast-acting, they don't produce any type of euphoria or "high", and you don't build up a tolerance to them (i.e. requiring increasingly higher doses to achieve the same benefits). Cravings for the substance, another common indicator of addiction, also don't occur with antidepressants.

This article talks about this discontinuation syndrome - Going off antidepressants - Harvard Health - if you want to learn more about it.

As for whether or not they're "poison" - they're a drug, so they come with potential adverse side effects, which is not only true of every medication on the market, but also true of many, if not most, herbal and other "natural" remedies. There's the potential to experience adverse effects from taking almost anything, especially if you use too much of it. Many herbs and even many foods have the potential to be quite toxic. Even drinking excessive amounts of water (water intoxication) can be highly toxic - and potentially deadly - because it causes an imbalance in your electrolytes.

Btw, I'm not a huge fan of antidepressants (or medication in general). I've personally seen them fail a lot of people (or provide minimal benefit, at best), but they definitely do really help some people. I'm more an advocate of lifestyle changes and therapy for mild to moderate depression (and many other disorders and conditions, depending on the severity and other factors).

Just to add to what Cali has said based on my own experience and experience of several friends, I had zero withdrawal symptoms. I felt nothing when I took antidepressants for 3 months. Then, inexplicably, for no apparent reason (I didn't win the lottery), I felt happiness.

I was diagnosed with acute clinical depression. Spent days in bed and didn't want to get up. Pondered suicide. Didn't eat or care about anything, including my job, my friends, and didn't want to see my family.

Once the antidepressant kicked in after 3 months, it was an enormous relief. Life continued .... I felt like living again.

I did suffer a very common side effect of antidepressants. The inability to have an orgasm. lol. I felt so much better in every other way, I decided I could live with that for awhile.

I quit on my own when I was ready and just stopped abruptly. No withdrawals or discomfort or cravings to continue, and no return to acute clinical depressive state.

One of the most effective medications I have ever taken, other than an anti-inflammatory I took for herniated disks.

Worked as described.

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Karen Blundell 9 years ago

I think the thing about medical treatments, whether mainstream or alternative/natural, is that it really depends on the individual with regards to what is effective -
as for myself - if I was diagnosed with cancer, I would try the least invasive, more natural approach, because of how my body reacts to drugs - I am a lightweight - it doesn't take much to get me buzzed - (I'm a cheap date lol ) but I have zero side effects if I eat garlic, spices, or any other cancer-fighting foods - and blueberries - all I gotta say is: yum!!!!

I can tell you that I lost both my parents, my favorite aunt, and a couple of really good friends to cancer - all of them were treated with conventional medicine - and so I have zero faith in the ability of mainstream doctors to actually cure anyone with cancer -

If I die from cancer because of avoiding mainstream medical treatment then it's on me and no one else. I take full responsibility for my own life and I will let everyone else that I know take responsibility for their own lives.

To each their own. As it should be.
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- Kay King 9 years ago
  
  I have not watched the Job's video but is it the case where he LOOKED for alternatives but the fact was, there was none available to treat what he had.?
  
  There was a heart wrenching interview Jobs did before he died - where he said he wished he had the traditional surgery when he was diagnosed. He chose not to do it - even though early cure rate was good. He said he was dying because of his own choice of treatment. Maybe right, maybe wrong - but it's what he believed.
  
  Cancer is a killer - no matter what you do or what treatments you provide...many with cancer will die. That's the reality and reflects on the disease rather than the treatments available.
  
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whateverpedia

9 years ago

From the passage you quoted:

American Heart Health Association advocated for 30 minutes of exercise a day for some time

Note the complete lack of the word strenuous in that sentence.

Going for a walk for 30 minutes a day would qualify for what is advocated in that quote. or even mowing the lawn.

Nowhere, and at no time did the Slip, Slop, Slap campaign advise anyone to "avoid the sun like the plague". It advocated taking sensible precautions whenever you're out in the sun for an extended period, which in the harsh Australian summer can be as little as 20 minutes a day. Anything longer than that, take precautions.

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tagiscom

9 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

From the passage you quoted:

Note the complete lack of the word strenuous in that sentence.

Going for a walk for 30 minutes a day would qualify for what is advocated in that quote. or even mowing the lawn.

Nowhere, and at no time did the Slip, Slop, Slap campaign advise anyone to "avoid the sun like the plague". It advocated taking sensible precautions whenever you're out in the sun for an extended period, which in the harsh Australian summer can be as little as 20 minutes a day. Anything longer than that, take precautions.

Well strenuous in getting the heart rate up to a certain level!

Not directly, but it never says, some sun is beneficial!

Put sunscreen all over your children and a hat, etc, every time they go outside in summer, and see what happens in 10 years time?

Vitamin D deficient illnesses, unless the doctor prescribes vitamin D pills, or yet again, buy my s***!

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whateverpedia 9 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Put sunscreen all over your children and a hat, etc, every time they go outside in summer

Because when kids go out in the summertime they're more than likely to be out for longer that 20 minutes, or however long the limit is for any given day. Sensible precautions. Besides which even if they are covered in sunscreen and a hat they are still getting a dose of Vitamin D. Sunscreen doesn't completely block out the sun, it merely filters it.
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ThomM

9 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

From the passage you quoted:

Note the complete lack of the word strenuous in that sentence.

Going for a walk for 30 minutes a day would qualify for what is advocated in that quote. or even mowing the lawn.

Nowhere, and at no time did the Slip, Slop, Slap campaign advise anyone to "avoid the sun like the plague". It advocated taking sensible precautions whenever you're out in the sun for an extended period, which in the harsh Australian summer can be as little as 20 minutes a day. Anything longer than that, take precautions.

When I had my back surgery the only exercise I was told to do was walk. I've almost always had jobs that required both physical and mental work. Twice I had jobs that weren't very physical. The first I had to leave because I stood in one place all day and it was compressing my joints and with an already bad knee I was looking at a knee replacement. My doctor told me if I wanted to avoid that I needed to get a job where I walked more. I got a job field testing rototillers and went from wearing a fancy knee brace with metal supports to a neoprene brace with no supports to no brace at all.
The second job required me to sit all day. I ended up with degenerative disk disease and spinal stannous (I know I spelled a couple of them words wrong

).
You don't need strenuous exercise to keep a healthy body, just exercise.

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Star Man

9 years ago

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Kay King

9 years ago

The life expectancy of Jobs was six months.

Before he died Steve Jobs expressed his regret that he did not follow medical advice when he was first diagnosed. He blamed his death on his search for herbal/alternative medicines and on his own decision not to have surgery when first diagnosed.

HE said his delay in accepting traditional medicine allowed his cancer to grow past the stage where it could be successfully treated.

I've read quite a few blogs where people hold forth on Jobs' illness and his treatments...but the man himself regretted the path he chose and said so loud and clear.

Can you condense the video? 41 minutes ain't gonna happen.

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lanfear63

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Before he died Steve Jobs expressed his regret that he did not follow medical advice when he was first diagnosed. He blamed his death on his search for herbal/alternative medicines and on his own decision not to have surgery when first diagnosed.

HE said his delay in accepting traditional medicine allowed his cancer to grow past the stage where it could be successfully treated.

I've read quite a few blogs where people hold forth on Jobs' illness and his treatments...but the man himself regretted the path he chose and said so loud and clear.

Can you condense the video? 41 minutes ain't gonna happen.

I hope you don't think that we are suggesting conventional medicine should be abandoned and that we are saying that, I'm certainly not, merely expanded to encompass natural cures.

If they bothered to honestly test these methods with the same clinical rigour they use on manufactured Pharm drugs I'm sure it would attest to there effectiveness in some, but not all cases, In the same way Pharm drugs perform in some, but not all. More Crossover Coverage in treatment that way.

I have not watched the Job's video but is it the case where he LOOKED for alternatives but the fact was, there was none available to treat what he had.?

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Princess Balestra 9 years ago

Guess there's a world of difference between alternative medicine and alternatives to medicine.

And mucho similarity between all shades of uncertainty when it comes to figurin' what's gonna happen tomorrow.

You just gotta pin down the best odds you can with the info you have, when mebbe the odds you got ain't too much yours to decide.

I got a glass of wine now gonna rot on my insides.

Mebbe I should sprinkle on some chopped oregano and hope I don't choke playin' swirly with the pretty patterns floatin' terraced vineyards from outta the blood red.

Or mebbe I won't, in case I get Godzilla screwin' on Tokyo instead.
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  sbucciarel Banned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Cali16
  
  No, you didn't "simply ask". You kept demanding, and when you didn't get what you wanted, you continued with childish badgering.
  
  Correct. How many times did he ignore the answer that the words of Steve Jobs regarding his illness are written by his authorized biographer, and yet he continues to badger for a video link. Duh ... I just chalk it up to reading incomprehension.
  
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  Kay King 9 years ago
  
  Is there a video where Jobs admits this himself?
  
  The interview I saw was live on TV - I have no idea if there is a "video" that was made public. I know it may be hard to believe but there are things that occur that don't make it to YouTube.
  
  What is with the rudeness and anger? What's in it for you? You asked the question - and - shocker - I wasn't on the WF waiting for YOUR questions. I was at the Zoo with family and friends living my real life.
  
  I remember the interview because it made a HUGE impression on me. I have no need to go searching the internet for a video of it - I saw the real thing.
  
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Kelley

9 years ago

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kelley

A perfect refutation of the false meme regarding Jobs' decision and his death.

As the video points out his cancer was metastatic to his liver since the age of 27 give or take a year or two. .He most likely got cancer due to his work as a solderer at HP as a teen.

The guy in the video wasn't Job's doctor. He had never treated Steve Jobs. He never even met Steve Jobs. He said all that in the first two minutes of the video.

And his talk was based on what the book said. Since the speaker trusted the author of the book to accurately describe Job's medical condition...and then what happened with his medical care, why won't you?

Which also brings up the fact that the speaker diagnosed Jobs' medical condition and drew his conclusions...from a biography, and nothing else. Did he see Jobs' medical records? Did he interview Jobs' Oncologist?

This guy sure has an amazing talent, being able to accurately diagnose a patient without any direct knowledge from the patient, Medical records, or from the doctors that actually treated Jobs.

You guys are Magical, absolutely Magical.

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whateverpedia 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

You guys are Magical, absolutely Magical.

Psychic perhaps?
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- Claude Whitacre 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by whateverpedia
  
  Psychic perhaps?
  
  I knew you were going to say that.
  
  ARE YOU PASSIONATE ABOUT -
  Predicting winning lottery numbers? Stopping kids blowing stuff up all the time?
  If you answered Yes to these questions,
  The League Of Psychic Super Heroes wants to hear from you
  (Must have own cape and tights - NASA employees need not apply).
  
  I love it. Every word.
  
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HeySal

9 years ago

Suzanne - yes there are a list a lawsuits there. You have missed the lawsuits for some of the drugs that the FDA has allowed on the market, though. Look up lawsuits against vaccines. Look up the lawsuits against Advil (which is in a class of drugs that are the leading cause of kidney failure in the US). It was taken off the market, but fortunately some major elite money in the US was behind it so it was reinstated -- same as aspartame.
The FDA allows drugs without testing - we are the tests, and they are funded by the same companies they are supposed to be protecting us from. You trust them? I don't. They have a pretty long line of approved drugs that end up being very dangerous that shouldn't have been approved.

It doesn't matter which way you go, people will die. The truth is - if you take the wrong step on either side of the line, you're toast. This is planet earth and living organisms are fragile.

I like it that you're not a a host of pharms. Actually, people that aren't live longer. Many of those on herbal sups don't either. There are sup companies that nobody informed will buy from. Fact is - we get hammered from both sides. I've seen natureopaths that are just as guilty of mongering as any doctor........and the prices of alternative med can be alarming as well. We in this forum should know better than the average person exactly how crazed people go at the thought of turning a profit.

What it comes down to is - who are you going to trust? I know people that have tried naturals and died. I know more that went through conventional med and it killed them.

Myself? I always have a few benydril around for emergencies, so I'm not 100% - but I am 99%. It comes down to choices and when making those choices -- you have to hope to hell and back you are an expert researcher. Who do I trust? ME. In the long haul, I'm going to worry more about saving my little butt than anyone else on the planet.

That said, my sister is completely well after breast cancer and will continue because she avoided traditional medicine and now knows to avoid toxins and what to eat to stay healthy (and the right organic food does more than either medicine or herbs). My cousin went traditional chemo and she was told the cancer was gone - when it came back, it was unstoppable. She's got hours to live. Literally. Hours.

Someday I'll tell the story of Ken Strong. Someday. Not yet.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Suzanne - yes there are a list a lawsuits there. You have missed the lawsuits for some of the drugs that the FDA has allowed on the market, though. Look up lawsuits against vaccines. Look up the lawsuits against Advil (which is in a class of drugs that are the leading cause of kidney failure in the US). It was taken off the market, but fortunately some major elite money in the US was behind it so it was reinstated -- same as aspartame.

The FDA allows drugs without testing - we are the tests, and they are funded by the same companies they are supposed to be protecting us from. You trust them? I don't. They have a pretty long line of approved drugs that end up being very dangerous that shouldn't have been approved.

It doesn't matter which way you go, people will die.

I don't implicitly trust conventional or alternative medicine. I make my health decisions after I do my own research and am 5 years older than you and have never been on any regular medication with the exception of one year of antidepressants, which helped immensely with acute clinical depression. I am on no medications at present for anything.

I believe that I am responsible for my health care. My doctors work for me. I don't work for them. They do as I want or give me a damned good reason why not. But I listen to their advice, do my own research and we work together.

But if it comes to a point where I have cancer, I would not fool around with herbs and diets and spiritual stuff, as Jobs did. Jobs likely had cancer from his twenties, after working in electronics without protection from carcinogins. By the time he was actually diagnosed, it probably didn't matter what he did. He most likely would have died either way because the cancer had spread to his liver and other organs. But you can be certain that "his" treatment did nothing for him. He died anyway and it doubled and spread in spite of his efforts, and in spite of conventional medicine.

At that point, I would take the most aggressive medical treatment that my doctors recommend, unless I felt that there was little point in putting myself through the treatment. No pretty little herbs for me. I'm well aware that medications get through that are harmful and I'm also well aware that people take and want to take far more medication than they should take or need. I'm certain that people see the commercials for drugs with the 5-minutes warnings following and run to their doctors and ask for those medications.

I have a doctor who works with me. I tell him what I want and he goes along. If he didn't feel that I was right, he would tell me. I trust him and like him a great deal.

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tagiscom

9 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Because when kids go out in the summertime they're more than likely to be out for longer that 20 minutes, or however long the limit is for any given day. Sensible precautions. Besides which even if they are covered in sunscreen and a hat they are still getting a dose of Vitamin D. Sunscreen doesn't completely block out the sun, it merely filters it.

Yes, but not much or probably not enough to stave or vitamin D deficient diseases.

And sunscreen does block out certain solar frequencies, including the beneficial ones!

It will keep then alive and kicking, but also develop long term illnesses,..hmmm, sounds familiar?

Women that wear Burkas, in Australia, or effectively a black sheet over them in summer, do get vitamin D deficient illnesses, and have to take pills to compensate!

No doubt some summer sun gets through, but not enough.

The S, S, S campaigns ran for years on end, including the recent one around the 2000, but never says some sun is beneficial or necessary for good health!

Just cover up as much as possible!

The Anti Cancer Council approved them, but never says this????

They do now, if you go to their website, but a few years back, no mention of it!

This cannot be put down to stupidly, because of the time frames and organizations involved; but can be put down to keeping people reasonably healthy, but sick enough so they can continue to sell their s***!

After all if a million kids get rickets, in AU, because they slip, slop, slap their brains out, or the parents do, doesn't matter, the kids will get better, they sell their s*** and the parents are left in the dark!

People need to use their own noggins in relation to staying healthy!

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