Socially responsible capitalism in action

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Remember Martin Shkrelli, the arsewipe who jacked up the price of a life saving drug from $13.50 a pill to $750?

Well he's just been bested by a rival who are going to bring out their own version of the drug for less than a $1 a pill.

Kudos to them, and to Shkrelli - eat sh*t and die.

Price-Gouging Pharma CEO Bested By Rival Who Creates $1 Alternative AIDS Drug | FreakOutNation
  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
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    • Profile picture of the author AprilCT
      I'm so glad someone is putting that [deleted] to his rightful place. When I originally read an article about what he had done, I know my blood pressure went sky high that yet another human being would do something so despicable.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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    Good for him. I hope he's able to develop a useful drug, and stay afloat and profit from it, rather than go broke making a point.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    WOW! There is a commercial that has been on for YEARS in the US that sayd the best aids drug costs like $0.60. IIRC, that means about $0.30 a pill!!!!

    There is a LOT of garbage in the pill industry. They do NOT need colorful graphics, commercials, and ads! Doctors do NOT need "free samples". The super poor should NOT get free drugs. They shouldn't have lobbyists. And CEOs should NOT get a fortune! If a CEO helps out as a chemist/biologist, let them be on the payroll for THAT as well, and get paid accordingly. OTHERWISE, a CEO has NOTHING to do with it!!!! What I am suggesting could save MANY millions of dollars a year! Use THAT to lower the price of everything.

    I recently found out that I had a problem hospitals wanted me to take DAYS off of work, and have someone pay a fortune for it! I went to ANOTHER doctor and THEY said I should take a dangerous prescription drug to change the level of a substance in my blood, that is EXPENSIVE. SOOOOO I went to a trusted pharmacist and asked HIM about the second problem. HE suggested I take a cheap "drug" available everywhere over the counter. It is safe, and CHEAP! OK, I took it, for the SECOND problem! I will have to wait a few months to check THAT out, but it had an interesting side effect! The FIRST problem vanished on the FIRST day!

    Well, I did some research on the internet! It said that it has been used successfully for treatment of the second problem for over 50 years. And the FIRST? OH, this sounds like a wonder drug! They did ALL SORTS OF STUDIES, and found out a lot of things. They STOPPED! You know why? Because they started creating competing DRUGS. One is a drug that a LOT of people, including some VERY poor and old people, are using!

    I guess I am lucky that this is considered an important ingredient, and is available everywhere. The ALTERNATIVE that my pharmacist recommended is a FOOD. It works FASTER, but is less safe. ALSO, a couple companies have SOLD IT as a kind of competitor to the drug I was prescribed. The FDA shut them down! They did NOTHING wrong, but claiming such a benefit opened a door the FDA used! NEVER MIND that it was SAFE and LEGIT!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      So a competitor creates a competing product for less money. Sounds like free market capitalism to me.
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      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        Sounds like free market capitalism to me.
        Ironically, that's what caused sh*t for brains to jack up the price in the first place. He believed he had a monopoly on that medication, so he could charge whatever he wanted.

        I believe it's a combination of market dynamics and social responsibility. Proof that you can be ethical AND make money.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

          Ironically, that's what caused sh*t for brains to jack up the price in the first place. He believed he had a monopoly on that medication, so he could charge whatever he wanted.

          I believe it's a combination of market dynamics and social responsibility. Proof that you can be ethical AND make money.
          A monopoly is not even remotely related to a free market.
          On the other hand competition between businesses is.
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          • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            On the other hand competition between businesses is.
            That would be a fair market system. A free (meaning unfettered, unregulated) market encourages monopolies, cartels and oligarchies to develop.
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

              That would be a fair market system. A free (meaning unfettered, unregulated) market encourages monopolies, cartels and oligarchies to develop.
              No that's what the meaning of a free market is to those opposed to the idea or those that don't understand what free market principles are.
              A "free" market would be lightly regulated(regulations that provide protection of the environment and population) and encourage competition between competitors giving consumers choices.
              Just like free health care isn't actually free the same applies to markets. People apply free market principles every time they make a choice between buying item A or item B. When I decide to go to a farmers market to buy produce both myself and the farmers there are using free market principles.
              A free market means if I think I can produce a better product then you with a lower selling price, then I try to do it and let the consumer decide if I'm right. The only regulations need there is not harming the environment (or consumers).
              In many respects we already have a free market system seeing how the basis of a free market is competition between business and free choice among consumers. That's what a free market actually encourages, not monopolies, cartels, and oligarchies which are the very opposite of a free market.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                The odd thought comes to mind here and there.

                Drugs aren't "produced" overnight - there are permissions, and re-tooling , etc....do you think perhaps this guy knew there were cheaper selections headed for the market - so profited while he could get by with it?

                Good to see a sleazebag brought down - but sadly he probably made a lot of money first.
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                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                  The odd thought comes to mind here and there.

                  Drugs aren't "produced" overnight - there are permissions, and re-tooling , etc....do you think perhaps this guy knew there were cheaper selections headed for the market - so profited while he could get by with it?

                  Good to see a sleazebag brought down - but sadly he probably made a lot of money first.
                  If I remember right he lowered the price .

                  Yep I remembered rightCompany Will Lower Drug Price After Critics Called 4,000% Hike 'Unjustifiable' - ABC News
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                    He lowered it after the uproar - but I wondered if raising it to begin with was meant to profit big and fast before the cheaper version hit the market.

                    He's a creep.
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                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                      He lowered it after the uproar - but I wondered if raising it to begin with was meant to profit big and fast before the cheaper version hit the market.

                      He's a creep.
                      No doubt. I'm also sure that if there wasn't an uproar he wouldn't of lowered the price.
                      Calling him a creep is awfully polite Wasn't the name I had in mind.
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              • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                No that's what the meaning of a free market is to those opposed to the idea or those that don't understand what free market principles are.
                [..]
                I'm thinking your explanation probably went zooming right over their heads.

                Personally, I think everyone who had a hand in the crash should have done some jail time -- CEOs, CFOs, COOs, and the politicians who enabled and/or encouraged them.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                  Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

                  I'm thinking your explanation probably went zooming right over their heads.

                  Personally, I think everyone who had a hand in the crash should have done some jail time -- CEOs, CFOs, COOs, and the politicians who enabled and/or encouraged them.
                  Yes, it zoomed right over our heads, as hot air always rises.

                  While the concept of competition is a vital part of a free market system, in a "free market", the market sets the price. In this example, it appears the guy set the price at the lowest possible price, not the market price.

                  This shows that the price was motivated more by compassion than free market influences. This is a concept many capitalists don't seem to be able to grasp. People like Jonas Salk sometimes do things to help others and not for purely financial reasons.

                  Also, there's no such thing as "free market" in many health related circumstances. Sure, if you want elective procedures such as Lasik, free market principles apply.

                  But for other more serious health issues, there is no freedom of choice, which is essential for a free market.

                  First, a doctor may have to write the prescription. It isn't up to the patient to choose the drug they want.

                  Then, it can be a matter of life and death. There's really no choice between dying and living. Sure, a patient can get a second opinion, but that's not a freedom of choice that's needed in a free market.

                  If a person is having a heart attack, they don't get to shop around for an emergency room. They go to the closest one.

                  Not to mention, "free market" is like a perfect vacuum. It's important to understand the concepts of each, but neither can actually exist. As long as there's human greed and ambition for power, there will never truly be a "free market". As soon as many people get more money or influence than others, they will use this power to manipulate and corrupt the "free market". Get rid of human greed and lust for power, then get back to me about "free market".

                  Yes, we should implement many of the principles of a free market in many things. But to pretend it is, or will be, perfect in every situation and can go unchecked is naïve.
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                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                    No that's what the meaning of a free market is to those opposed to the idea or those that don't understand what free market principles are.
                    A "free" market would be lightly regulated(regulations that provide protection of the environment and population) and encourage competition between competitors giving consumers choices.
                    Just like free health care isn't actually free the same applies to markets. People apply free market principles every time they make a choice between buying item A or item B. When I decide to go to a farmers market to buy produce both myself and the farmers there are using free market principles.
                    A free market means if I think I can produce a better product then you with a lower selling price, then I try to do it and let the consumer decide if I'm right. The only regulations need there is not harming the environment (or consumers).
                    In many respects we already have a free market system seeing how the basis of a free market is competition between business and free choice among consumers. That's what a free market actually encourages, not monopolies, cartels, and oligarchies which are the very opposite of a free market.
                    Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

                    I'm thinking your explanation probably went zooming right over their heads.

                    Personally, I think everyone who had a hand in the crash should have done some jail time -- CEOs, CFOs, COOs, and the politicians who enabled and/or encouraged them.
                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                    Yes, it zoomed right over our heads, as hot air always rises.

                    While the concept of competition is a vital part of a free market system, in a "free market", the market sets the price. In this example, it appears the guy set the price at the lowest possible price, not the market price.

                    This shows that the price was motivated more by compassion than free market influences. This is a concept many capitalists don't seem to be able to grasp. People like Jonas Salk sometimes do things to help others and not for purely financial reasons.

                    Also, there's no such thing as "free market" in many health related circumstances. Sure, if you want elective procedures such as Lasik, free market principles apply.

                    But for other more serious health issues, there is no freedom of choice, which is essential for a free market.

                    First, a doctor may have to write the prescription. It isn't up to the patient to choose the drug they want.

                    Then, it can be a matter of life and death. There's really no choice between dying and living. Sure, a patient can get a second opinion, but that's not a freedom of choice that's needed in a free market.

                    If a person is having a heart attack, they don't get to shop around for an emergency room. They go to the closest one.

                    Not to mention, "free market" is like a perfect vacuum. It's important to understand the concepts of each, but neither can actually exist. As long as there's human greed and ambition for power, there will never truly be a "free market". As soon as many people get more money or influence than others, they will use this power to manipulate and corrupt the "free market". Get rid of human greed and lust for power, then get back to me about "free market".

                    Yes, we should implement many of the principles of a free market in many things. But to pretend it is, or will be, perfect in every situation and can go unchecked is naïve.
                    Yep apparently so.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

          Ironically, that's what caused sh*t for brains to jack up the price in the first place. He believed he had a monopoly on that medication, so he could charge whatever he wanted.

          I believe it's a combination of market dynamics and social responsibility. Proof that you can be ethical AND make money.
          If the price was lower originally, we have NO idea why he jacked up the price! Believe it or not, SOME products are packaged in different ways, and have different laws applied to them, and are resold at VERY different prices. These pills were apparently primarily for things like malaria, so I would assume the price was low. Maybe they didn't want the risk of aids to look minimal. Maybe they didn't want the deaths of people using the drug to skyrocket. Maybe they didn't want the responsibility. Maybe insurance and lawyers balked. ALSO, the FDA DEMANDS that they approve a drug FOR THE LISTED USE! That meant more studies, etc.... So WHO KNOWS what affected the cost. The others are riding coattails. That is one reason why generics cost less.

          One drug I need is basically NATURAL! It was discovered after some cows found some nice clover, that is naturally high in the drug. It doesn't cost THAT much, though the first company charged a LOT more for it. And don't bring up R&D! It was discovered at a federally funded state college by a student. But I will bet the FDA had a big part in raising the cost. Luckily, NOW, a few other companies make it at a lower cost.

          The FDA has raised MY costs a LOT! HUNDREDS TO THOUSANDS a year traced DIRECTLY to THEM! Why does a machine nearly identical to a diabetic machine cost over ~100 times as much? Why do the strips cost 18 times as much? Why can I go to a drug store RIGHT NOW, and in minutes get a diabetic tester but the other machine could take WEEKS or even YEARS to get through the red tape? The first machine I took me like 3 weeks, the second DID take a couple years, and switching doctors, to get. The FDA MANDATES that I get the machine because, if I don't, it MANDATES that I follow the whims of the people providing the prescription. That INCLUDES being at a certain place within a certain time, which I can't do. As for the diabetic machine? I have gotten a few, Just in case, and it was LITERALLY no harder than buying a CANDY BAR!

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author allegandro
    Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

    Remember Martin Shkrelli, the arsewipe who jacked up the price of a life saving drug from $13.50 a pill to $750?
    I remember this, I was so upset.

    There is nothing wrong with making money producing medicine. They can make a billion or more, but in this case it was just sickening.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

    Remember Martin Shkrelli, the arsewipe who jacked up the price of a life saving drug from $13.50 a pill to $750?

    Well he's just been bested by a rival who are going to bring out their own version of the drug for less than a $1 a pill.

    Kudos to them, and to Shkrelli - eat sh*t and die.

    Price-Gouging Pharma CEO Bested By Rival Who Creates $1 Alternative AIDS Drug | FreakOutNation
    You guys all see this in a different way than I do.

    Martin Shkrelli invested in a company, and knew that he had an exclusive ...in demand...drug.

    Smart investing. Then he took the drug to $750 a pill. You guys see that as evil. I see it as sloppy thinking. He shouldn't have raised the price of the drug. He should have paid for a little research, improved the drug in some way, cancelled production of the original drug, and sold the improved drug under a different name.

    $750 a pill was ridiculous. But his reasoning wasn't completely flawed. There were other treatments that cost far more than the pill at $750. But these were treatments, not a series of pills. So his justification completely fell apart. But $30 a pill? He could have done that, even with the improved pill under a different name. And his company would have prospered.

    And you see the new company as being socially responsible. But they never would have created the new pill, if Martin Shkrelli hadn't been in the news. The company saw a new awareness of the drug, saw a way to capitalize on the news stories, and make themselves the new source. Smart marketing. Smart positioning.

    There aren't enough customers that use the drug to make this a real money maker, no matter how much you charge. My guess is that the new manufacturer is using this opportunity to create publicity...or enhance it's market value. What does the company charge for the other medicines it sells? The answer to that question would give a hint as to its motives.


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  • Profile picture of the author Sumit Menon
    This is not socially conscious capitalism, this is the very essence of free market capitalism. If it weren't this way, all of us free market peeps wouldn't be capitalists in the first place.

    And do you guys know what allowed this son of a b to jack up the prices so high and still make money? It's not capitalism, it's the government. The 'closed distribution' loophole.

    The FDA gives pharmaceutical companies monopoly to generic drugs. Now another company can contest this monopoly by proving that their version of the drug is more effective or is just as effective but cheaper. They need to conduct clinical trials in comparison with the already existing drug to prove one of the two things is true. So far so good.

    But, there is a loophole. Now the company who has the monopoly can claim that their drug is so precious that they can't risk releasing it for the trial to the competing firm. This means the challenging company can't prove that their drug is cheaper or better. This claim now goes to court and of course they don't expect to win. They'll usually settle out of court, and even if the other firm declines to settle, in between the time gained between the filing of the lawsuit and when the other firm completes the trial, they'll make a significant profit anyway and can (I'm guessing) always bring the prices down.

    Despicable, I know. But, that's what you get when the law is stupid. More government control, shall we?

    Sumit.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    Good for them. If their business can support $70K salaries for everyone, that's great. I don't know where the 'socialism' comparisons come from, though.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

      Good for them. If their business can support $70K salaries for everyone, that's great. I don't know where the 'socialism' comparisons come from, though.
      The headline talks of "socially responsible" capitalism not socialism and this is an extraordinary tale of a extra nice business person.

      I thought some folks would be interested to know how his "experiment" is working out.
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        The headline talks of "socially responsible" capitalism not socialism and this is an extraordinary tale of a extra nice business person.
        Yes, but in the article ol Rush called it socialism. Good story.
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Yes, but in the article ol Rush called it socialism. Good story.

          Dig it!


          BTW...

          At least it looks like the debt ceiling problem will go away until March of 2017 if reports are to be believed. I surely hope so. That would be very socially responsible.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    REI closing on Black Friday for 1st time in push to #OptOutside


    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...tory/74627872/
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