I refused to leave the classroom . . .

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Is there really any valid reason to treat a school child in this manner?

If it were my daughter, the guy who did this had best go in to hiding.

South Carolina school video: Officer-pupil clash investigated
  • Profile picture of the author kentah
    That is crazy man.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I hope they sue the guy, the school, the town & the state for not doing a psych test on the guy.

    That dude was out of control.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      My initial respond is that this police guy acted way out of control. Just totally uncalled for.

      But if you go back and look at the tape go to around 11 seconds. There is a second or two right before guy explodes that you cannot see what happens between the two. Something is blocking the view..

      Possibly the girl could have done something here. Like motion towards his gun or hit him in the crotch or something.

      Iam not trying to give the policeman a pass or an excuse. He looks like he acted way out of hand. But this lapse in a few seconds could explain why he exploded. I dont know .
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      • Profile picture of the author dieselpro
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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          Originally Posted by dieselpro View Post

          Dude please,
          [Thesis snipped]

          Dude, please. You need to participate a little more often. We've discussed most of what you've touched on, one subject at a time instead of one huge brain fart that no one even wants to read because you wrote way too much on too many topics with too few paragraph breaks.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Dude, please - you come here once a year for a semi-brain dump? Your own racial bias is showing as you toss opinions left and left.... No, didn't read it all - a little bit of that anger goes a long way....

            My point is
            Now that you've given your views on every news story for the past year or more - in a way that is "I'm right - you're wrong"....guess we'll see you next year?
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

    Is there really any valid reason to treat a school child in this manner?
    No. None whatsoever.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Cnn has footage two or three seconds before this and there is no gun or attack on the officer in that either.

    I keep hearing that South Carolina is over its racists ways and the confederate flag love was unrelated but every few months the events say otherwise. Plus you have to wonder how justified these people think they are that even after all these high profile cases even in their own state they wouldn't tone it down if even for fear of prosecution.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
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      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Cnn has footage two or three seconds before this and there is no gun or attack on the officer in that either.

      I keep hearing that South Carolina is over its racists ways and the confederate flag love was unrelated but every few months the events say otherwise. Plus you have to wonder how justified these people think they are that even after all these high profile cases even in their own state they wouldn't tone it down if even for fear of prosecution.

      That's not racism, that's assault from a power trip.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Cnn has footage two or three seconds before this and there is no gun or attack on the officer in that either.

      I keep hearing that South Carolina is over its racists ways and the confederate flag love was unrelated but every few months the events say otherwise. Plus you have to wonder how justified these people think they are that even after all these high profile cases even in their own state they wouldn't tone it down if even for fear of prosecution.
      I think SC and many of the Southern states have a long way to go to overcome the Racism that has been present for many years.

      The late sixty and seventy year olds ( many that I know) still hold onto to the fact of "that is just the way things were when I was growing up" will be dying off in the next couple of decades so hopefully that will help a little
      .
      That being said I have to say this may be a incident of racism. But it may not. He could have done same thing to a white girl.

      I do not know his full history
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        I do not know his full history
        The perfect environment for bigots to enlighten us... with bullshit.


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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        I think SC and many of the Southern states have a long way to go to overcome the Racism that has been present for many years.

        The late sixty and seventy year olds ( many that I know) still hold onto to the fact of "that is just the way things were when I was growing up" will be dying off in the next couple of decades so hopefully that will help a little
        .
        That being said I have to say this may be a incident of racism. But it may not. He could have done same thing to a white girl.

        I do not know his full history
        I find your willingness to withhold judgement until you get the full story disgusting.

        Your reasonableness makes me want to puke.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
          Of course, the other side of this coin is when we complain about how school systems tolerate poor behavior from students like this.


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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          I find your willingness to withhold judgement until you get the full story disgusting.

          Your reasonableness makes me want to puke.
          I don't care what this girl did - unless she was wielding a knife or a gun, there is absolutely NOT ONE excuse for a man to attack a woman this brutally. Sometimes our "reserved judgement" can get in the way of real thinking. Nobody that is not exerting a very real danger should ever be beaten like this. This is NOT a case of "maybe it was warranted" because we can't see what happened before. We can see her sitting in a chair and being violently attacked. That is enough. This cop is out of control and should not be on the force.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            Sometimes our "reserved judgement" can get in the way of real thinking. .
            I have to agree. Immediate rabid anger, and lack of impulse control...when you see a short video, is always the best course. And of course, the very definition of clear thinking.

            The cop showed the same kind of "Thinking".

            I think you nailed it there.


            The important thing here, is that none of the posts about this reflect the same kind of temper and impulse control problems that the cop in the video showed. We are above such anger issues.

            Get the facts...be level headed....and above all, be tolerant of others....that's our motto.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


              The important thing here, is that none of the posts about this reflect the same kind of temper and impulse control problems that the cop in the video showed. We are above such anger issues.
              The truly amusing thing is that in comparing written posts here with actual actions taken by a police officer slamming a girl to the floor the light didn't go off in your head that you were above anger issues in the same way and your "thinking" there was impeccable..
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              I have to agree. Immediate rabid anger, and lack of impulse control...when you see a short video, is always the best course. And of course, the very definition of clear thinking.

              The cop showed the same kind of "Thinking".

              I think you nailed it there.

              The important thing here, is that none of the posts about this reflect the same kind of temper and impulse control problems that the cop in the video showed. We are above such anger issues.

              Get the facts...be level headed....and above all, be tolerant of others....that's our motto.
              Anyone who sees that video and isn't angered has something wrong with them. Respect for authority? Who could respect that kind of "authority"? That cop was way out of control against a high school girl. Cell phone in school? Big freaking deal. You would have thought by his response that she was carrying a bomb instead of a cellphone. That cop belongs behind bars for that attack on a kid.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                Anyone who sees that video and isn't angered has something wrong with them. Respect for authority? Who could respect that kind of "authority"?
                I didn't say anything about "respect for authority".

                Who should I be angry at?

                The teacher for not handling the student?
                The student for misbehaving?
                The school for hiring the teacher or the cop?
                The cop for reacting physically?
                Common Core for putting everyone in a bad mood?

                I know this will just get your blood boiling hotter, but I've watched this video maybe 30 times. It looks worse than it is. He dumps her out of the chair/desk. She wasn't bruised (at least nobody reported that).

                Personally, I wouldn't have touched her at all. But like you said, there is something wrong with me.

                Anger is never the right response when you're a cop. But it always seems to be the right response here. I wish I knew what was wrong with me. My lack of anger issues just makes everything worse.

                So, how should the cop have handled it? Surely we have the answer to that.


                Honestly, I think if the teacher, student , and cop were all armed, I think all this physical thrashing about could have been avoided.


                Added later; Mostly I'm kidding. I just wanted to have my fun before the thread is locked. Now I have to go home. Lasagna for supper. It's great, but my wife sneaks in broccoli. My revenge will be swift.
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  I didn't say anything about "respect for authority".

                  Who should I be angry at?

                  The teacher for not handling the student?
                  The student for misbehaving?
                  The school for hiring the teacher or the cop?
                  The cop for reacting physically?
                  Common Core for putting everyone in a bad mood?

                  I know this will just get your blood boiling hotter, but I've watched this video maybe 30 times. It looks worse than it is. He dumps her out of the chair/desk. She wasn't bruised (at least nobody reported that).

                  Personally, I wouldn't have touched her at all. But like you said, there is something wrong with me.
                  Looks worse than it is to you perhaps but probably not to her parents. And if that happened to that cops kids, if that moron has procreated, there'd be hell to pay.

                  So, which one of these would or should result in anger? The answer is easy for me.

                  The teacher for not handling the student?
                  The student for misbehaving?
                  The school for hiring the teacher or the cop?
                  Common Core for putting everyone in a bad mood?
                  The cop for brutally assaulting a teenager DING DING DING

                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Anger is never the right response when you're a cop. But it always seems to be the right response here. I wish I knew what was wrong with me. My lack of anger issues just makes everything worse.

                  So, how should the cop have handled it? Surely we have the answer to that.
                  How about professionally? Would that work? He's an adult, a public servant, an allegedly trained law enforcement officer called in on something that should have been very benign. A kid misbehaving. And that was his response? He's had two federal lawsuits brought against him already for similar aggression, but this time it was against a kid.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post


                    How about professionally? Would that work?
                    Not as an answer. That's a politician's answer.

                    Really, and I'm not just asking you...how should the cop have handled it? Real answer. Anyone?


                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                    Grab the chair and drag her out into the hallway and let her sit there. Next question.
                    There. That's a good well thought out answer.

                    And it would have solved the problem.

                    And I didn't think of it.



                    Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                    Or maybe extreme violence by a grown man on a minor turns you on, huh.
                    OK, we may all disagree. We may even get angry with each other. But that wasn't called for.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      Really, and I'm not just asking you...how should the cop have handled it? Real answer. Anyone?
                      Just my opinion without knowing the school's policy: he should have subdued her without brutality and escorted her out of the room (perhaps in handcuffs if she was thrashing, hitting, etc.) to wait in the hallway or principle's office, while the principle called her parents to come pick her up from school.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                        When it takes three adults (the instructor, the Asst Principal and the officer) to remove one teen girl from a classroom....there is something wrong at that school.

                        The "no injuries" has now, according to the girl (but not doctors) become a 'fractured arm' and cuts on the face. Her lawyer says she "needs a cast" but doesn't mention a broken arm and says she had a bump on her head.

                        No damages - no money?

                        What surprised me is the lack of reaction of the other students in the video. Maybe it happened too fast...or maybe the girl's behavior isn't unusual in the school?
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                        Just my opinion without knowing the school's policy: he should have subdued her without brutality and escorted her out of the room (perhaps in handcuffs if she was thrashing, hitting, etc.) to wait in the hallway or principle's office, while the principle called her parents to come pick her up from school.
                        I really like Tim's answer. It wouldn't have involved touching the girl. It would have taken her out of the class (in my mind, solving the problem).

                        I'm surprised that isn't the rule on how to handle a problem like that.

                        I wonder when this thread will get locked? There sure is enough reason.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          I really like Tim's answer. It wouldn't have involved touching the girl. It would have taken her out of the class (in my mind, solving the problem).
                          Considering her continual defiance, I can't see how that wouldn't have involved touching the girl. She likely wasn't going to get out of the chair willingly, nor would she have sat in it once the chair was outside of the classroom. He would have had to 1) forcibly remove her from the chair and 2) forcibly remove her from the room. But he should know how to do that without the kind of brutality he displayed.

                          When a student continues to disobey no matter what, they need to be suspended (even if just for the rest of the day) and the parents need to take the student home. Cell phones should be kept in lockers or at least turned off and put away during class. (How on earth did most of us get through our teen years without cell phones...??)

                          While I'm not remotely sympathetic towards the officer, the girl has issues as well and her behavior wasn't fair to the other students who were there to learn (or doodle or daydream, and not be disruptive).
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                      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                        Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                        he should have subdued her without brutality and escorted her out of the room (perhaps in handcuffs if she was thrashing, hitting, etc.)
                        Her actions precluded that possibility.

                        Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                        he should have subdued her without brutality and escorted her out of the room (perhaps in handcuffs if she was thrashing, hitting, etc.)
                        ? How do you do that without using force?


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                        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                          Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                          Her actions precluded that possibility.



                          ? How do you do that without using force?


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                          Ummm. Subdue without brutality? She was just sitting there. Hello!
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                          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                            Ummm. Subdue without brutality? She was just sitting there. Hello!
                            Yeah Most sensible move and I have actually seen it done but for a younger age. In fact i think anyone without authority to use force would gave gone with something like that
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                        • Profile picture of the author discrat
                          Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                          Her actions precluded that possibility.



                          ? How do you do that without using force?


                          Joe Mobley
                          Joe are you kidding me? Come on now. There is force without brutality. I think Tim has come up with best answer. And I remember a teacher doing this when I was growing up. Just slide that desk straight out into the hall.

                          No brutality

                          And if she thrashes and resist then you have probable cause to restrain her appropriately.
                          Again no brutality
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                          • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                            And if she thrashes and resist then you have probable cause to restrain her appropriately.
                            Again no brutality
                            Agree entirely Rob. Restraining a young girl shouldn't entail throwing her about like a rag doll. My opinion.
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                          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                            And I remember a teacher doing this when I was growing up. Just slide that desk straight out into the hall.

                            No brutality
                            This situation has probably happened hundreds of thousands of times in the US the last few decades in and out of the classroom. How do you handle it? First off, not like this guy. That's a given except for those without a clue or those who are trying to impress Kay. ( I keep telling Claude "That avatar is a cartoon, dude")

                            But seriously, how have people removed someone who doesn't want to move in the thousands of instances it has happened? Many very emotional and tense protests with people refusing to move were resolved without incident. This was not how it is done.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                          Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                          Her actions precluded that possibility.
                          I disagree, as he is much larger and, presumably, also much stronger than her.

                          Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                          How do you do that without using force?
                          I'm not disagreeing that some degree of force wasn't required in this situation (see my last post above), but force doesn't have to include brutality.

                          There's an appropriate use of force, and an inappropriate use of force. From all appearances, this was clearly an inappropriate use of force in the form of blatant brutality.
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                    • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                      Claude,

                      Whilst you are entitled to your opinion. Instead of selective clipping . . .

                      Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                      Or maybe extreme violence by a grown man on a minor turns you on, huh.
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      OK, we may all disagree. We may even get angry with each other. But that wasn't called for.

                      Why didn't you show the full context within which my remark was made . . .

                      Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                      Ah, those pesky details. Watch it turn out that "the student" was just a snot-nosed punk that deserved to be bitch-slapped.
                      Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                      Bitch-slapped and GBH are two entirely different things. Maybe you're due for your bi-annual spectacle appraisal at the opticians, Joe. Or maybe extreme violence by a grown man on a minor turns you on, huh.

                      I made a sarcastic remark because of the flippant attitude shown regarding adult violence towards minors, by Joe - which I am sure Joe and myself have now completely forgotten about!
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                • Profile picture of the author yukon
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                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Honestly, I think if the teacher, student , and cop were all armed, I think all this physical thrashing about could have been avoided.

                  Calamity Jane style education.
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                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


                  So, how should the cop have handled it?

                  Grab the chair and drag her out into the hallway and let her sit there. Next question.
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                  • Profile picture of the author yukon
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                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                    Grab the chair and drag her out into the hallway and let her sit there. Next question.

                    The you're in timeout & you can forget recess card.

                    Well played.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                      COLUMBIA, S.C. -- A South Carolina sheriff says a video of an officer's arrest of a female student shows her hitting the officer.
                      Video shows student hitting officer Ben Fields, sheriff says - Washington Times


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                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                        Right ... before or after he wrapped his arm around her neck and slammed the desk to the floor and dragged her out of the chair and flung her across the room? Or perhaps her arm was flailing about as she was being assaulted by a gorilla.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                          Although dramatic, let us remember a couple of FACTS:

                          1) (From the OP link)
                          The officer is white and the female student, who was unharmed, is black, the sheriff's office said.
                          2) It was the behavior of the student that precipitated a call for law enforcement.


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                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                          Right ... before or after he wrapped his arm around her neck and slammed the desk to the floor and dragged her out of the chair and flung her across the room? Or perhaps her arm was flailing about as she was being assaulted by a gorilla.
                          CNN has the longer video. Her back is to him. she does not comply and probably tensed herself but there is no swing I could see. she then gets the take down backward and then is tossed like a rag doll towards the front of the class wall

                          That there were no injuries certainly was not the result of any careful actions on his part so claiming there was no injuries and no one was harmed is hardly a positive to him.

                          On the bright side its hard to see from that brutal reaction how her college funds are NOT now secure. If at all legally possible somebody is getting sued
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                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                            CNN has the longer video. Her back is to him. she does not comply and probably tensed herself but there is no swing I could see. she then gets the take down backward and then is tossed like a rag doll towards the front of the class wall

                            That there were no injuries certainly was not the result of any careful actions on his part so claiming there was no injuries and no one was harmed is hardly a positive to him.

                            On the bright side its hard to see from that brutal reaction how her college funds are NOT now secure. If at all legally possible somebody is getting sued
                            That people in this thread are suggesting that kind of brutality is aok against a disobedient teen is really appalling to me. I don't know of a single parent who hasn't had a disobedient teen at one point or another. He likely would have killed a couple of mine for their disobedience. If a cop saw a parent doing that to a kid, they'd be arrested for child endangerment. The fact that she was not injured is just pure luck for the cop. He absolutely had no concern about whether she was injured or not. That a cop in a rage and completely out of control.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                              A teacher had complained that the student, who has not been identified, was being unruly during class and refused to leave even after an administrator was called in.

                              "The student was wrong in what she did -- she disrupted class, she was disturbing the others students from getting an education.
                              Sheriff Says Third Video Shows South Carolina Student Punching Officer in Classroom

                              Ah, those pesky details. Watch it turn out that "the student" was just a snot-nosed punk that deserved to be bitch-slapped.


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                              • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                                Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                                Watch it turn out that "the student" was just a snot-nosed punk that deserved to be bitch-slapped.
                                Bitch-slapped and GBH are two entirely different things. Maybe you're due for your bi-annual spectacle appraisal at the opticians, Joe. Or maybe extreme violence by a grown man on a minor turns you on, huh.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                                  Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                                  Joe. Or maybe extreme violence by a grown man on a minor turns you on, huh.
                                  1) Looking at the RESULTS no extreme violence occurred.

                                  2) My only turn-on is knowing that I am pissing off bigots with the facts.



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                                  • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                                    Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                                    1) Looking at the RESULTS no extreme violence occurred.
                                    The girl was thrown violently across the classroom. Evidently you're blind, blinkered, or both.


                                    Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                                    2) My only turn-on is knowing that I am pissing off bigots with the facts.
                                    So in your opinion, someone who is against violence on a minor is a bigot.

                                    You know what Joe, I've been a member here since 2003, under different names, and always had a lot of time and respect for you. In this single thread you've shown your true colors, and any respect I had for you as a human being has gone.

                                    Someone who thinks that extreme violence against a minor is permissible, and moreover calls those who disagree with him bigots, is not someone who I'd either have respect for or wish to be associated with. Back to your sad delusory world.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                                      Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                                      So in your opinion, someone who is against violence on a minor is a bigot.
                                      No. That's an inaccurate and unfair summation of my position.

                                      Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                                      You know what Joe, I've been a member here since 2003, under different names, and always had a lot of time and respect for you.
                                      Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                                      In this single thread you've shown your true colors, and any respect I had for you as a human being has gone.
                                      My loss.

                                      Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                                      Someone who thinks that extreme violence against a minor is permissible,
                                      Again, inaccurate. Perhaps we disagree on the term "extreme violence". Dramatic video, yes. No one harmed is not extreme violence to me.

                                      Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                                      and moreover calls those who disagree with him bigots, is not someone who I'd either have respect for or wish to be associated with. Back to your sad delusory world.
                                      Again, an inaccurate appraisal.

                                      I am calling those who would make this into a racial event, without knowing or wanting to know the facts, bigots.

                                      Joe Mobley
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                                        Again, inaccurate. Perhaps we disagree on the term "extreme violence". Dramatic video, yes. No one harmed is not extreme violence to me.

                                        Rofl..... Joe is such a card...by that rational attempted murder isn't violence if you miss

                                        The maneuver easily could have caused injury. In no rational world is an act of violence defined merely on the basis of injury it actually causes - any more than an intense battle is measured solely on casualties.

                                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                        What surprised me is the lack of reaction of the other students in the video. Maybe it happened too fast...or maybe the girl's behavior isn't unusual in the school?
                                        Thought of that myself but none of those make sense. the only thing that does is that they are accustomed to that action and/or are accustomed to him handling issues like that . Their non reaction to his actions isn't explained by her history
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                                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                                  Bitch-slapped and GBH are two entirely different things. Maybe you're due for your bi-annual spectacle appraisal at the opticians, Joe. Or maybe extreme violence by a grown man on a minor turns you on, huh.
                                  I tell ya ... the day that "bitch slapping" minors because they're disobedient is in the list of cops duties, is the day I think about moving out of this country.

                                  I do not blindly respect authority. I have nothing but contempt for men who think that putting a badge on gives them the absolute right to bully and assault and kill at their whim. Men who need a badge and a gun to feel big are not a good fit for law enforcement.

                                  There are enough good cops to go around who believe that the job is to serve and protect .... not to needlessly and recklessly assault the people who are paying their salaries. Those good cops didn't enter the job because they need a badge and a gun to feel powerful and big. They most likely already had a healthy dose of self confidence and took the job because they felt they could do good by fighting crime and protecting people. And they put their lives on the line every day. Those cops, I respect.

                                  The others like this moron, I have nothing but contempt for and he is about to find out that it's not just me who has contempt for a cop who acts like that ... he's about to find himself out of the job that he most likely loved and supported his family with. And that may not be the end of his problems with the FBI investigation and if the SC police dept that hired him has any sense, charges of assault or child endangerment.

                                  If there is one person here who has never been disobedient or has never had a child be disobedient, please raise your hand and let us see this shining example of obedience.

                                  Obedience ... I don't even like the word. I'd rather be called insolent than obedient. I dole out respect for individuals as it is earned ... not because of the title or badges they wear on their clothes. Blind obedience just isn't in my DNA.

                                  The deputy also arrested a second girl who verbally objected to his actions
                                  Since when is verbally objecting to brutality a crime? The teacher and the Vice Principal who condoned this maniac's actions should also lose their jobs.

                                  And disobedient or not, I hope the family sues and gets lots of cash. Money talks and if they have to pay, perhaps they'll screen and train officers with a little more caution in the future.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                                Sheriff Says Third Video Shows South Carolina Student Punching Officer in Classroom

                                Ah, those pesky details. Watch it turn out that "the student" was just a snot-nosed punk that deserved to be bitch-slapped.


                                Joe Mobley
                                Thankfully Joe has me on ignore so I don't have to go back and forth with his usual blithering racist ignorance when anyone not white is involved. CNN As I say has the whole video from the walk up to the take down. The kid does not comply with getting up but if you watch the hands theres no swing either.
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                                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                  Thankfully Joe has me on ignore so I don't have to go back and forth with his usual blithering racist ignorance when anyone not white is involved. CNN As I say has the whole video from the walk up to the take down. The kid does not comply with getting up but if you watch the hands theres no swing either.
                                  On the other hand, Mark - not everything that includes of person of color is racially motivated. Watching this cop, I don't get the feel the kid's race had anything to do with his reaction. I think he's probably a ******* to anyone of any color because he thinks the badge gives him a right to abuse. This is a man who goes home and gives his wife bruises, too. Trust me on that one.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                                    On the other hand, Mark - not everything that includes of person of color is racially motivated.
                                    nope but in the case of that poster I am pretty sure based on past posts it colors his thinking
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
                                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                      nope but in the case of that poster I am pretty sure based on past posts it colors his thinking
                                      Once again, Mike, make sure you're referring to the right "Joe". I am NOT a racist in any way, shape or form. I have very dear friends that are African-American, Hispanic and Native-American and hold no animosity toward anyone based on race.

                                      There's more than one "Joe" here.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                        Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

                                        Once again, Mike, make sure you're referring to the right "Joe". I am NOT a racist in any way, shape or form. I have very dear friends that are African-American, Hispanic and Native-American and hold no animosity toward anyone based on race.

                                        There's more than one "Joe" here.
                                        Yes Joe so make sure to read for context and stop giving directions. Sal was referring to a statement I made about the Joe in question
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                            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                              That people in this thread are suggesting that kind of brutality is aok against a disobedient teen is really appalling to me..
                              I'm not that surprised though. Its some of the same names I see in just about any police brutality thread claiming the same thing. In some cases its just no empathy because their children are grown up or they don't look like the people involved (always helps for empathy) or old and crotchety and like to look down their noses at the young.
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                          • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                            Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

                            In this case I think the parents should have probably been called and the child expelled from school.
                            Correct.

                            And they also should have been fined and placed on some kind of child management course.

                            Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

                            Still, I don't have a major problem with the way the officer handled it at all.
                            Well, maybe you just think extreme violence towards minors is ok. Sure glad I never had a father like you.


                            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                            she then gets the take down backward and then is tossed like a rag doll towards the front of the class wall
                            Exactly.

                            Funny how certain people in this thread seem to have missed that bit. I'm sure if it were their child on the receiving end it would change their view entirely.

                            The whole point is, there are a multitude of ways that the situation could have been diffused in a better manner. Since when has gratuitous violence been the preferred option?
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                            • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
                              Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                              Well, maybe you just think extreme violence towards minors is ok. Sure glad I never had a father like you.
                              You're funny. Lol

                              You think THAT was extreme violence? Gimme a break.

                              I've lived in extreme violence growing up and know more about it than most "average folks". I would never, EVER mistreat my children.

                              For you to hide behind a message board and make insinuations like that is the act of a cowardly, stupid person.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

                                You're funny. Lol

                                You think THAT was extreme violence? Gimme a break.
                                If you think tossing a kid like that to a front of a class is not extreme violence you just confirmed his assessment. I've had bullets whizzing by me on more than one occasion growing up and can still say thats violent where a child is concerned. if anything the violence I have seen makes me less tolerant of it in all forms particularly where children are concerned.
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                              • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                                Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

                                You're funny. Lol

                                You think THAT was extreme violence? Gimme a break.

                                I've lived in extreme violence growing up and know more about it than most "average folks". I would never, EVER mistreat my children.

                                For you to hide behind a message board and make insinuations like that is the act of a cowardly, stupid person.
                                You said you didn't have a problem with the way the officer handled it.

                                I replied, in that case I'm glad I never had a father like you.

                                And in your opinion my reply means I'm hiding behind a message board, and makes me a cowardly and stupid person.

                                Sounds like you're a whole hog short of a hog roast, Joe.

                                I notice you don't post a lot on here lately, and when you do you end up in arguments with many. Your above post explains a lot. Anyone with the kind of blinkered opinions you've got evidently doesn't make friends easily.
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                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                    Grab the chair and drag her out into the hallway and let her sit there. Next question.
                    Three pages in and still the best idea

                    Another thought would be to call the parents and tell them their child is disrupting class and to come and remove her. If them come and get her she will be suspended for x amount of days. If not she will be arrested for disturbing the peace and expelled.

                    The way this was handled the cop has become the bad guy and rightly so because of his actions. Doing it your way or mine and it's still the girl who is the bad person as it should of been seeing how she caused all this.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                      Three pages in and still the best idea

                      Another thought would be to call the parents and tell them their child is disrupting class and to come and remove her. If them come and get her she will be suspended for x amount of days. If not she will be arrested for disturbing the peace and expelled.

                      The way this was handled the cop has become the bad guy and rightly so because of his actions. Doing it your way or mine and it's still the girl who is the bad person as it should of been seeing how she caused all this.
                      Indeed....Nothing tops Tims solution....and while suggesting that the parents come in and remove her is great too...that begs the question for me....where in hell did this kid get the idea that it was ok to behave the way she did? that is was acceptable?

                      Wow...just wow.

                      Where is our community discussion about how that shit happened? Its a sorely needed conversation.

                      To me that is the bigger issue...far surpassing the issue of "police state". You'll take your biggest strides to successfully quelling excessive police aggression by tackling that issue first.

                      Respect and cooperation towards authority will get you way way further than anything else....that means Cops...Teachers...Parents...the whole lot.

                      Acting like a dick to a cop...well...its a box of chocolates...I cant feel bad for you when it goes south on you. I don't condone the cops behavior either....but I'm always going to make it an issue about you making a bad choice and causing something that could have been avoided had you made a good choice.

                      So...how do we help kids like this girl make good choices in those situations?...cuz I don't care how angry you are about the cop...the fact is...she had plenty of opportunities to control and create a happy outcome...had she been respectful and obedient to the teacher in the first place...then the cop in the second place... none of this would have happened.
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                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                        Banned
                        Indeed....Nothing tops Tims solution....and while suggesting that the parents come in and remove her is great too...that begs the question for me....where in hell did this kid get the idea that it was ok to behave the way she did? that is was acceptable?

                        Wow...just wow.
                        Funny how people keep trying to paint this girl as the problem that caused this incident of police brutality. Get freaking real people. She used a cell phone in class and wouldn't give it up when asked to. Yawn ....

                        The real problem is where did this jackass cop get off thinking that abuse and assault were the answer to a teenager disobeying him.

                        It's truly encouraging .. for society and all ... to see so many stellar individuals who have never disobeyed anyone ... ever .. for any reason, nor have their children. You are all to be commended or something. Just don't run across the Pied Piper and listen to what he says. Might get you in a bind. lol

                        EDIT: The asshole just found out just how inappropriate it is to assault teens in school.

                        Sheriff's deputy to be fired in South Carolina classroom altercation: MSNBC

                        http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0SM1V020151028
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                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                          Funny how people keep trying to paint this girl as the problem that caused this incident of police brutality. Get freaking real people. She used a cell phone in class and wouldn't give it up when asked to. Yawn ....

                          The real problem is where did this jackass cop get off thinking that abuse and assault were the answer to a teenager disobeying him.

                          It's truly encouraging .. for society and all ... to see so many stellar individuals who have never disobeyed anyone ... ever .. for any reason, nor have their children. You are all to be commended or something. Just don't run across the Pied Piper and listen to what he says. Might get you in a bind. lol

                          EDIT: The asshole just found out just how inappropriate it is to assault teens in school.

                          Sheriff's deputy to be fired in South Carolina classroom altercation: MSNBC

                          Sheriff's deputy to be fired in South Carolina classroom altercation: MSNBC | Reuters
                          I have to admit, you and Sal write the absolute best angry rants. I can feel the hysteria come through. I can feel your sense of satisfaction that the cop got fired. You have serious writing skills.
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                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            I have to admit, you and Sal write the absolute best angry rants. I can feel the hysteria come through. I can feel your sense of satisfaction that the cop got fired. You have serious writing skills.
                            Well, thank you, but if you're feeling hysteria, I'm not communicating well. I'm never hysterical. Never. Angry over a cop who assaulted a teenager, yes. It could have been my teenager and then I might have become hysterical.

                            I would have been more satisfied if the cop had been fired when he assaulted an autistic child, tore his shirt and bruised his shoulder and arm. That would have been appropriate and then this incident would have never happened. I would have been satisfied if he had been fired when he sprayed an entire can of mace on a man and assaulted him during a mere noise complaint.
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                        • Profile picture of the author yukon
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                          Sheriff's deputy to be fired in South Carolina classroom altercation: MSNBC

                          Sheriff's deputy to be fired in South Carolina classroom altercation: MSNBC | Reuters

                          Hilarious.

                          The first paragraph of that article stresses the cop was white & the student was black, totally irrelevant.

                          News Flash: The cop is dating a black women.


                          [source]

                          Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott said during a news conference Tuesday it's "difficult to say" race was a factor because of "personal knowledge" of Deputy Ben Fields. Fields, assigned to Spring Valley High School, is shown on student-shot videos grabbing the teen from her desk, slamming her to the floor and dragging her across the classroom.

                          "He's been dating an African-American female for quite some time now," Lott said of the deputy. "So does that have a bearing on his thought process? It may have. But I would think that would have it on a positive way, not on a negative way.
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                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                            Hilarious.

                            The first paragraph of that article stresses the cop was white & the student was black, totally irrelevant.

                            News Flash: The cop is dating a black women.

                            [source]
                            Yes, I noticed that in the article as well. Race doesn't appear applicable in this case, but I wonder just how long his relationship will last now that he has no job, has problems with the FBI, and has demonstrated a lack of understanding of how to deal with people who oppose him. I would consider him a likely candidate for domestic violence and I certainly wouldn't want him to raise my children.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                            Hilarious.

                            The first paragraph of that article stresses the cop was white & the student was black, totally irrelevant.
                            ROFL...Now thats hilarious. Its totally relevant because there seems to be indications the cop is already in federal court on another race related case

                            https://www.scribd.com/embeds/287136...endations=true

                            and had another case he eeked out of involving a hispanic.



                            News Flash: The cop is dating a black women.
                            LOL....you all need to get out more....NEWS FLASH...racist have been known to sleep and date black women...some even end the relationships by calling the woman the N word. Slave masters had relationships with black woman.

                            Where do you think light skin blacks came from...bathing in milk? lol...rofl....this place is H I L arious

                            Now can anyone read minds/ nope but thats the nature or racist activity the perps especially now rarely every wear signs or sheets on their head.
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                        • Profile picture of the author discrat
                          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                          Funny how people keep trying to paint this girl as the problem that caused this incident of police brutality. Get freaking real people. She used a cell phone in class and wouldn't give it up when asked to. Yawn ....

                          It's truly encouraging .. for society and all ... to see so many stellar individuals who have never disobeyed anyone ...
                          Fwiw, I can honestly say without any hesitation whatsoever, I have NEVER disobeyed a cop or teacher in this manner. NEVER

                          Sorry , but it gets more than just a yawn from me
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                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                            Fwiw, I can honestly say without any hesitation whatsoever, I have NEVER disobeyed a cop or teacher in this manner. NEVER

                            Sorry it gets more than just a yawn from me
                            So, you weren't involved in this exact situation. Are you going to tell me now that you have never disobeyed anyone in a position of authority or that your kids have never disobeyed anyone, including their parents, in a position of authority?
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                            • Profile picture of the author discrat
                              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                              So, you weren't involved in this exact situation. Are you going to tell me now that you have never disobeyed anyone in a position of authority or that your kids have never disobeyed anyone, including their parents, in a position of authority?
                              Its all in context. Lets use common sense here.
                              And there are levels of arrogance and misbehaving that needs to be taken into account

                              Of course children rebel against parents etc..

                              Just like I have taken swipes and knocks in the head at my 4 older brothers growing up.

                              But do you think we need to treat hitting my brothers in the same manner as if I bashed the head of a cop or teacher ?

                              Of course not. Like I said its common sense and context here we are talking about.


                              There are levels of insubordination. And yawning about a girl talking back to a cop is sending the wrong message
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                              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                                Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                Its all in context. Lets use common sense here.
                                ,,,,

                                But do you think we need to treat hitting my brothers in the same manner as if I bashed the head of a cop or teacher ?

                                ...

                                There are levels of insubordination. And yawning about a girl talking back to a cop is sending the wrong message
                                As I said, I do not respect cops or teachers. I respect only those who have earned respect and I see a shortage of candidates in this incident.

                                Talking about context and then likening what happened to hitting cops and teachers in the head is disingenuous. That is not what happened. Her arms were flailing about in the video as she was being brutally assaulted (and whose arms wouldn't be). She did not assault anyone, no matter what the Sheriff said. I saw the video. I know what I saw.
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                                • Profile picture of the author discrat
                                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post


                                  Talking about context and then likening what happened to hitting cops and teachers in the head is disingenuous. That is not what happened. Her arms were flailing about in the video as she was being brutally assaulted (and whose arms wouldn't be). She did not assault anyone, no matter what the Sheriff said. I saw the video. I know what I saw.
                                  What I said absolutely had nothing to do with the girl and this case.

                                  At all.

                                  The girl was not hitting the cop in anyway I saw,. either

                                  It was just an example that ran thru my head on the spur of the moment to show how actions and behavior can be construed as different in different situations.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                                    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                    What I said absolutely had nothing to do with the girl and this case.

                                    At all.

                                    The girl was not hitting the cop in anyway I saw,. either

                                    It was just an example that ran thru my head on the spur of the moment to show how actions and behavior can be construed as different in different situations.
                                    Ok ... then just answer my question honestly. Have you or your kids ever disobeyed a person in authority, including parents. Have you or your kids ever done something they shouldn't have done?

                                    Fess up. Have you ever been a bad boy?
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                                    • Profile picture of the author discrat
                                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                      Ok ... then just answer my question honestly. Have you or your kids ever disobeyed a person in authority, including parents. Have you or your kids ever done something they shouldn't have done?

                                      Fess up. Have you ever been a bad boy?
                                      I will answer your question in a relative and honest way as it pertains to this Case .
                                      ....NEVER to Cop or Teacher . And I will teach my kids the same thing.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                                        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                        I will answer your question in a relative and honest way as it pertains to this Case .
                                        ....NEVER to Cop or Teacher . And I will teach my kids the same thing.
                                        Ok ... fair enough to say that you don't want to confess to ever doing something that you should not have or ever disobeying or your kids disobeying an authority figure.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author discrat
                                          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                          Ok ... fair enough to say that you don't want to confess to ever doing something that you should not have or ever disobeying or your kids disobeying an authority figure.
                                          LOL. Suzy I have a blood pressure and a heart beat don't I ? So of course I have disobeyed and kids have too.

                                          I just wanted to answer your question in a "relatable" way as it pertains to this case
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                                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                                            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                            LOL. Suzy I have a blood pressure and a heart beat don't I ? So of course I have disobeyed and kids have too.

                                            I just wanted to answer your question in a "relatable" way as it pertains to this case
                                            You've restored my faith in humanity. Thank you. Everyone has done things that in hindsight, they shouldn't have. Ok, maybe Mother Teresa hasn't. I don't know, but I have and everyone I know has and my kids have and my grandchildren, of course, are perfect.
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                                • Profile picture of the author discrat
                                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                  As I said, I do not respect cops or teachers. I respect only those who have earned respect and I see a shortage of candidates in this incident.
                                  I guess maybe Im the Minority here but I operate different in this World. I treat everyone, including strangers, with utmost respect until they show me otherwise.

                                  Not showing respect or reverence to strangers in this World and not giving them the benefit of the doubt is one reason why we have a Society thats bent on thinking everyone is out to get them and we end up with a society that has little empathy towards people they do not know.

                                  I'll pass
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                    I guess maybe Im the Minority here but I operate different in this World. I treat everyone, including strangers, with respect until they show me otherwise.

                                    Not showing respect or reverence to strangers in this World is one reason why we have a Scoiety thats bent on thinking everyone is out to get them.

                                    A fundamentally unsound way to have Altruism and Peace in our Society
                                    Maybe a better way to say it is "show respect" or "act in a respectful way". Like Suzanne, I have no respect for authority in any form. I fact, I don't have respect for anyone (If it means what I think it means). But that doesn't mean you shouldn't act in a civil and respectful way to everyone else.

                                    When my son was a kid, he told me that he didn't respect his grandmother...and that's why he misbehaved. I explained in even tones how he didn't have to respect her. He didn't have to respect anyone. But he had to treat my mom in a respectful way, or he would be punished. And then I went on to explain how this is for his benefit. Treating other people well makes his life easier, less painful.

                                    Treating other people well, no matter what you think of them, has it's own rewards And treating people badly, gets punished, in one way or another.

                                    The cop overreacted (in my opinion) and he got punished. But the girl is going to have problems later in life if she thinks that behavior like this is OK.

                                    Putting her out in the hall, or having her parents come to get her in class, would have embarrassed her in front of her friends. And that probably would have benefited her the most as a teaching moment.

                                    Just an opinion.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author discrat
                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                      Maybe a better way to say it is "show respect" or "act in a respectful way". Like Suzanne, I have no respect for authority in any form. I fact, I don't have respect for anyone (If it means what I think it means). But that doesn't mean you shouldn't act in a civil and respectful way to everyone else.

                                      .
                                      True. Good point !
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                      The cop overreacted (in my opinion) and he got punished. But the girl is going to have problems later in life if she thinks that behavior like this is OK.
                                      Pretty good video on CBS interviewing an articulate young man in the class room (who recorded one of the videos) that doesn't share your assessment (and illustrates how people are quick to rush to judgement on the girl). He states she was apologetic, had only had the phone out for a brief time. Basically just wanted to keep her phone. painting her as some person that is going to have problems later on in life when you don;t even know her or what happened in the room leading up to it is nowhere level headed. teens make mistakes in life and go on just fine. The girl that stood up and objected said the girl doesn't have anyone in her life so the phone probably has even more attachment to her keeping up with those she does connect with.

                                      You come int this thread claiming everyone else is jumping to assessments and conclusions in regard to the Police officer but here you are jumping to assessments and long term conclusions about the girl. Just sad


                                      Student who recorded violent classroom arrest speaks out - CBS News
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                                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                    Banned
                                    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                    I guess maybe Im the Minority here but I operate different in this World. I treat everyone, including strangers, with utmost respect until they show me otherwise.

                                    Not showing respect or reverence to strangers in this World and not giving them the benefit of the doubt is one reason why we have a Society thats bent on thinking everyone is out to get them and we end up with a society that has little empathy towards people they do not know.

                                    I'll pass
                                    I didn't say that I mistreated them in any way. I said that I respect no one until they have earned my respect. That does not mean that I mistreat them or are abusive to them. It means exactly what I said. Respect is earned, not inherited because someone sticks a badge on you or because you earn your living as a teacher.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                          Funny how people keep trying to paint this girl as the problem that caused this incident of police brutality. Get freaking real people. She used a cell phone in class and wouldn't give it up when asked to. Yawn ....
                          let em stew because theres nothing they can do about it. I'm breaking out my happy dance he was fired and I'll do the electric slide if he gets time.

                          I am especially laughing at the people in this thread claiming to be above jumping to conclusions and so reasoned when the only thing they seem to be not jumping to conclusions about is related to the cop. They have no problems whatsoever jumping to conclusions about the girl. Its still unclear what her offense was. Students in the class have actually said she was not on the phone but had taken it out for a second or two and put it back up and when the cop approaches you do not see her on the phone.

                          now some of these old foggies down here in the basement didn't grow up with cell phones but if you are young enough or young enough to have teenagers then you know they do not give up their phones lightly (and one of the versions was that was what she was refusing to do so was asked to leave). its an extension of themselves

                          Should she have? yes. But if you know teenagers its not egregiously outrageous that she resisted and if that really the case then even Tim's sound suggestion would be unnecessary. You go on with the class and you suspend punish her afterwards if she is not presently on the phone.

                          The end.
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                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                            let em stew because theres nothing they can do about it. I'm breaking out my happy dance he was fired and I'll do the electric slide if he gets time.

                            I am especially laughing at the people in this thread claiming to be above jumping to conclusions and so reasoned when the only thing they seem to be not jumping to conclusions about is related to the cop. They have no problems whatsoever jumping to conclusions about the girl. Its still unclear what her offense was. Students in the class have actually said she was not on the phone but had taken it out for a second or two and put it back up and when the cop approaches you do not see her on the phone.

                            now some of these old foggies down here in the basement didn't grow up with cell phones but if you are young enough or young enough to have teenagers then you know they do not give up their phones lightly (and one of the versions was that was what she was refusing to do so was asked to leave). its an extension of themselves

                            Should she have? yes. But if you know teenagers its not egregiously outrageous that she resisted and if that really the case then even Tim's sound suggestion would be unnecessary. You go on with the class and you suspend punish her afterwards if she is not presently on the phone.

                            The end.
                            The one report from eyewitnesses said she took it out for a second to look and put it away. She was not "on the phone." But she refused to hand it over. She's not alone with cellphone obsession. It's a national epidemic, and especially with young people. As you can see, more than one student in that class had a cellphone and probably more than one took a peek at it at some point in class. Perhaps they were more discreet than she was and didn't get caught.

                            The way this was handled was a deliberate escalation to a major event, culminating in an outright vicious assault on this teen. The Sheriff's office literally had no choice but to fire this cop, and I also hope that he is charged with assault on a minor. He was completely out of line.
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                            • Profile picture of the author discrat
                              Good the hear the Cop was fired. With that personality ,he needs to be a bouncer or something
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                            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                              The one report from eyewitnesses said she took it out for a second to look and put it away. She was not "on the phone." But she refused to hand it over.
                              If that holds up as being the offense then all this drama was just an ego power play "we are going to show you who is in charge and right away" and the teacher needs to lose his job as well. If you can't deal with that better then you have no business being in a classroom.

                              If there is no ongoing disruption to the class you note it to the administrative staff for discipline and suspension and go on with your class. Unfortunately some adults act like kids the moment they are not obeyed. Its all about ego adrenaline.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                One funny part is that students say the second student was arrested because she objected loudly by screaming curse words at the officer.

                                Today she says she was praying out loud. You have to chuckle at that one.
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                                • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                  One funny part is that students say the second students was arrested because the objected loudly by screaming curse words at the officer.

                                  Today she says she was praying out loud. You have to chuckle at that one.
                                  I've heard that "prayer". LOL
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                            • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
                              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                              The one report from eyewitnesses said she took it out for a second to look and put it away. She was not "on the phone." But she refused to hand it over. She's not alone with cellphone obsession. It's a national epidemic, and especially with young people. As you can see, more than one student in that class had a cellphone and probably more than one took a peek at it at some point in class. Perhaps they were more discreet than she was and didn't get caught.

                              The way this was handled was a deliberate escalation to a major event, culminating in an outright vicious assault on this teen. The Sheriff's office literally had no choice but to fire this cop, and I also hope that he is charged with assault on a minor. He was completely out of line.
                              Nobody is disagreeing that the cop was way out of line, people aren't disagreeing that the cop should have been fired. People aren't saying the cop is a victim...I'm not sure why you've latched onto these ideas with a king kong grip.

                              What you seem to be avoiding though is the absolute, rock solid fact that the girl, and the girl alone, had 100% control of whether or not this escalated. Simply by doing what was asked of her. You keep focusing on the after the fact stuff that got way out of hand.

                              yeah it sure did ! ...nobody thought what happened would happen.

                              I have no problem with the Police dept. paying the kids medical bills, firing that officer, etc

                              But I damn sure want that kid to understand that she made a really stupid choice, cuz if she didn't learn that lesson...its going to bite her in the ass again in probably the not too distant future.

                              Respect Authority, no matter what costume its wearing.

                              Its a lesson that a whole generation of youth could stand to learn actually.

                              "Would you put that phone away in my classroom?" ...."yes maam" ( puts phone away)

                              It could have been that simple.

                              In one of your posts you used the phrase " if it were my teenager" ....what if it were? ...yes you'd rightfully be outraged that she got beat up...but at some point don't you at least say to yourself...why didn't my kid get her shit together and straighten up...at some point....in all that time that transpired...with several people interacting with her....even when a cop showed up...never made the choice to get her act together.....don't you feel compelled to want to do something to help your kid understand the value, or lack of value of her choices?
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                              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                Banned
                                Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

                                What you seem to be avoiding though is the absolute, rock solid fact that the girl, and the girl alone, had 100% control of whether or not this escalated. Simply by doing what was asked of her. You keep focusing on the after the fact stuff that got way out of hand.
                                ...

                                But I damn sure want that kid to understand that she made a really stupid choice, cuz if she didn't learn that lesson...its going to bite her in the ass again in probably the not too distant future.

                                Respect Authority, no matter what costume its wearing.

                                Its a lesson that a whole generation of youth could stand to learn actually.

                                "Would you put that phone away in my classroom?" ...."yes maam" ( puts phone away)

                                It could have been that simple.

                                In one of your posts you used the phrase " if it were my teenager" ....what if it were? ...yes you'd rightfully be outraged that she got beat up...but at some point don't you at least say to yourself...why didn't my kid get her shit together and straighten up...at some point....in all that time that transpired...with several people interacting with her....even when a cop showed up...never made the choice to get her act together.....don't you feel compelled to want to do something to help your kid understand the value, or lack of value of her choices?
                                I never said that the kid was an angel or that her parents had no complicity in her attitude. I completely disagree that the kid escalated this. She's a teen and it was entirely in the hands of what was supposed to be level headed, mature, responsible, well trained adults to handle this situation and situations like this arise all the time in school and law enforcement. It's not unique. Adults in charge are the ones who should have the game plan for handling this in advance and execute that plan flawlessly.

                                As for respect authority. I do not. And I didn't teach my children to blindly respect authority. I taught them not to be criminals and I taught them not to get shot by arguing with a cop. I taught them that they have to obey their teachers even when the teachers are wrong.

                                But my children have never had an altercation with a cop or a teacher and they do not respect anyone blindly just because they have a badge or teach a class or whatever their profession is, like myself.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
                                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                  I never said that the kid was an angel or that her parents had no complicity in her attitude. I completely disagree that the kid escalated this. She's a teen and it was entirely in the hands of what was supposed to be level headed, mature, responsible, well trained adults to handle this situation and situations like this arise all the time in school and law enforcement. It's not unique. Adults in charge are the ones who should have the game plan for handling this in advance and execute that plan flawlessly.

                                  As for respect authority. I do not. And I didn't teach my children to blindly respect authority. I taught them not to be criminals and I taught them not to get shot by arguing with a cop. I taught them that they have to obey their teachers even when the teachers are wrong.

                                  But my children have never had an altercation with a cop or a teacher and they do not respect anyone blindly just because they have a badge or teach a class or whatever their profession is, like myself.
                                  Well, I better understand what you are saying, and much of what you just said resonates with me.

                                  Sometimes though, in certain environments...most of those ideals are irrelevant.

                                  Like when your in a classroom....there are rules there to be followed and you do what your told by those that are running the show. I would teach my kid that in that situation, there is no room for them to exercise their ideals on what respect means.

                                  You just do what your told.

                                  If a man with a badge and a gun happens to be in your face.

                                  You just do what your told.

                                  I think we really both basically agree on those points.

                                  but as for this girl, in this situation....we will have to disagree.

                                  She escalated it all on her own, by not doing what she was asked, when she was asked.

                                  "will you put your phone away?" ....."yes maan" ( puts phone away)

                                  It could have been that simple for her.

                                  and THAT is the most important lesson to be taken away from all this, for anyone who might find themselves making choices in the near future ( all of us)
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                                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                    Banned
                                    Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

                                    Like when your in a classroom....there are rules there to be followed and you do what your told by those that are running the show. I would teach my kid that in that situation, there is no room for them to exercise their ideals on what respect means.

                                    You just do what your told.
                                    I agree with that. I did teach my children that when in school, they do have to do what the teachers say. I taught them that a teacher may be dead wrong, but they have to obey anyway and to bring the problem home and if there's something for me to deal with, I'll deal with it. And I did on occasion call out a teacher for what I considered wrong and I have removed a kid from a class and moved them to another class because of a teacher before.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                      I agree with that. I did teach my children that when in school, they do have to do what the teachers say. I taught them that a teacher may be dead wrong,
                                      The problem is we do not live in that world anymore. I cannot tell my children to obey and respect all teachers and police officers anymore. Too many have shown themselves to be corrupt. the old trust system was abused by pedophiles, corrupt people, egomaniacs, misongynists, racists, class elitists and greedy for power or sex people.

                                      I can tell them to obey under the right circumstances but that level of respect and trust like the good old days is opening pandora's box
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                                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                        Banned
                                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                        The problem is we do not live in that world anymore. I cannot tell my children to obey and respect all teachers and police officers anymore. Too many have shown themselves to be corrupt. the old trust system was abused by pedophiles, corrupt people, egomaniacs, misongynists, racists, class elitists and greedy for power or sex people.

                                        I can tell them to obey under the right circumstances but that level of respect and trust like the good old days is opening pandora's box
                                        I never taught them to respect. Even when I was raising kids, there was much cause for disrespect of authority. I taught them what is basically survival skills. You have to do what the teacher says, but more importantly, never argue with a cop. I had serious discussions with my children about how they could end up dead if they didn't heed that warning. Respect was not the issue. Survival was. It may sound overly dramatic for then, but then as now, cops did shoot and kill unarmed citizens. Only difference is there were no smart phones recording it, so much of it was never brought to light.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
                                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                        The problem is we do not live in that world anymore. I cannot tell my children to obey and respect all teachers and police officers anymore. Too many have shown themselves to be corrupt. the old trust system was abused by pedophiles, corrupt people, egomaniacs, misongynists, racists, class elitists and greedy for power or sex people.

                                        I can tell them to obey under the right circumstances but that level of respect and trust like the good old days is opening pandora's box

                                        So this classroom wasn't the right circumstance?

                                        I'd be interested to hear what you would deem a proper or worthy scenario to disrespect a cop or a teacher.

                                        ....on a side note....this...."I cannot tell my children to obey and respect all teachers and police officers anymore." ...is really disturbing.

                                        Quick survey...who's kid ends up on the sour end of an authority confrontation...his or mine?
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                                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
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                                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                          Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

                                          ....on a side note....this...."I cannot tell my children to obey and respect all teachers and police officers anymore." ...is really disturbing.
                                          Any parent that tells his or her child to obey and respect all teachers and police officers in the 2Oth and 21st century is the only ones that are really disturbing.

                                          Some teachers have been pedophiles should they obey those Doran at all times? who in their right mind would tell their children to obey those? before anyone has children it would be wise to realize they live in the real world not fantasy land. Police officers have been known to be corrupt, teacher have been known to use their authority for evil so giving your children a blank command to obey all teachers and police officers makes little sense

                                          Do you actually have any children? I can't grasp a parent not understanding those realities

                                          Quick survey...who's kid ends up on the sour end of an authority confrontation...his or mine?
                                          Quick survey - whose daughter or son is more likely to be raped/abused repeatedly by an authority figure with a deviancy? Yours you teach to obey and respect always or mine that says "NO Nope not obeying that" and runs because dad spelled out the circumstances under which not to obey?

                                          This is parenting 101 in the REAL world. Its amazing you have to spell this out to people. Its just plain common sense.

                                          P.S. in no world does not obey all equal be confrontational to all.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
                                            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                            Any parent that tells his or her child to obey and respect all teachers and police officers in the 2Oth and 21st century is the only ones that are really disturbing.

                                            Some teachers have been pedophiles should they obey those Doran at all times? who in their right mind would tell their children to obey those? before anyone has children it would be wise to realize they live in the real world not fantasy land. Police officers have been known to be corrupt, teacher have been known to use their authority for evil so giving your children a blank command to obey all teachers and police officers makes little sense

                                            Do you actually have any children? I can't grasp a parent not understanding those realities



                                            Quick survey - whose daughter or son is more likely to be raped/abused repeatedly by an authority figure with a deviancy? Yours you teach to obey and respect always or mine that says "NO Nope not obeying that" and runs because dad spelled out the circumstances under which not to obey?

                                            This is parenting 101 in the REAL world. Its amazing you have to spell this out to people. Its just plain common sense.

                                            P.S. in no world does not obey all equal be confrontational to all.
                                            uhm...we're talking about being asked to put your phone away in the middle of classtime.

                                            Every single other person on this thread just innately understood that we were not using the exact absolute literal meaning of the word Obey.

                                            that would be ridiculous and unreasonable.

                                            This nuance eluded you for some reason.
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                                            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                              Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

                                              uhm...we're talking about being asked to put your phone away in the middle of classtime.

                                              Umm no we weren't, We are on page four. Thats been established pages ago. Suzanne was discussing the general concept of respect for teachers and police officers. That happens in a thread like this. if covers particulars and also the general principles around the specifics. If you cant follow along with comprehension you are doomed.

                                              Everyone in this thread has seen me say that in this case the girl should have obeyed. Its practically on every page. IF you are having problems seeing the obvious - focus - or change the viewing size on your browser

                                              This nuance eluded you for some reason.
                                              I could rightfully say a great many thing seem to eludes you, I could tell you the reason but its not the subject of this thread so stick to the point.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                          Banned
                                          Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

                                          ....on a side note....this...."I cannot tell my children to obey and respect all teachers and police officers anymore." ...is really disturbing.
                                          Here's what's interesting in this particular forum. There is often posted a complete and utter disrespect for government, laws, politicians, cops, big corporations, big pharma, big this and big that.

                                          And yet, in this particular thread, you hear the same old mantra over and over again ... respect authority. Teach your children to respect authority. You must respect authority.

                                          Fu*k authority.

                                          Cops: You have to stay safe and not argue with a cop because they're likely to just blow your ass away if you show your utter contempt for their abuse and misuse of power. Believe it or not, I've met some cops that I like and who aren't egomaniacs with a gun. But you don't know beforehand which ones are a powder keg waiting to blow up.

                                          Cops killing unarmed people is becoming more and more commonplace. Cops overreacting to what should be minor matters in the day of a cop happens all the time. Thank goodness for smart phones because most people are carrying around the ability to provide proof of this abuse of power and crimes against civilians. Good cops aren't afraid of cellphones.

                                          Teachers: They're just people like everyone else and as such, are prone to the same prejudices and quirks as others. Some teachers just plain don't like certain students and go out of their way to make things difficult for them. Some teachers are bigots and will ignore the education of children with a different ethnic background than themselves. I know ... hard to believe ... huh? Some teachers want to have sex with children. Both men and women teachers have been guilty of this. Some teachers are just plain mean sons of bitches and have no business working with the public, much less children. Having 4 children of my own, I've met them all.

                                          The government: Who really respects our government these days? You get out and vote because they've made promises that are important to you. Once elected, you find that they're really in someone else's pocket and could care less about their promises. The goal was to get elected so that they can fulfill their promises to the people that have greased their greedy, sweaty little palms, and screw you ... the people who voted for them. Who can respect that?

                                          For all these people who are calling for blind respect for authority, do you mean that black and other minority children should respect authority or children in general should trust and respect authority, but you don't really have to. It's ok for you to say fu*k the government, fu*ck the laws, but don't talk back to a teacher or a cop while black.

                                          EDIT: Yes, I know that she was asked to put her phone away. She was by eyewitness accounts, apologetic to the teacher and asked to stay in the class and did put her phone away, but wouldn't give it to the teacher. The teacher, who may be a teacher who simply did not like her at all, chose to call in Administration, and then a cop was called, when this most likely could have been easily handled in class with criminalizing a teen playing with a cellphone.

                                          The teacher was all for the cop brutalizing this teenager and the Adminstrator as well. I have no respect for this teacher or Administrator. They are incapable of handling the positions they are paid to do.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author discrat
                                            Wow we have really run the Gamut of emotions in this Thread. More so than I can remember off hand in any other Thread.

                                            Also interesting to see some of the "true colors" come out in full force by some of the OT's finest !
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                                            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                              Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                              Wow we have really run the Gamut of emotions in this Thread. More so than I can remember off hand in any other Thread.

                                              Also interesting to see some of the "true colors" come out in full force by some of the OT's finest !
                                              I dunno I think the doozie for me was when some pretty up there in age guys were arguing 16 shouldn't be statutory. That was an eye popping thread given some of the participants.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                I find it really really hard to believe that most of the posts here, would be what we would be saying to each other in person.
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                                                What if they're not stars? What if they are holes poked in the top of a container so we can breath?
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                                                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                  I really don't know if race had anything to do with this case but historically the numbers show that it does in situations like this. Here's a good article with some hard to ignore numbers on the relationship of race and punishment in schools.

                                                  Black students are suspended and expelled from school three times more often than white students, according to 2011-2012 data from the U.S. Department of Education Office of Civil Rights. While 16 percent of black students were suspended from school during that period, only 5 percent of white students were -- though they represented a much larger share of students enrolled in school overall....

                                                  School discipline knows no age minimum -- and neither does discrimination. Black students only represented 18 percent of U.S. children enrolled in preschool, but they accounted for nearly 50 percent of preschool students who received more than one out-of-school suspension, according to the 2011-2012 Education Department data. White children made up 43 percent of all preschool students, but just 26 percent of those who received more than one out-of-school suspension...
                                                  http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/562f9...9765a?2fpc766r
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                                                • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                  I find it really really hard to believe that most of the posts here, would be what we would be saying to each other in person.
                                                  Probably not. I would not tolerate the likes of Mike Anthony in my presence.

                                                  Ironically, I would like to have a beer or two with Tim, Steve (whateverpedia) and a few others. We might have to agree to disagree on a couple of topics, then relax and enjoy ourselves.

                                                  We might even enjoy some vacuum cleaner salesman stories, who knows.

                                                  Then there's Kay King...


                                                  Joe Mobley
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                    Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                                                    Probably not. I would not tolerate the likes of Mike Anthony in my presence.
                                                    Oh I knew that Joe. Sidney Poiter first covered that in Guess Whose coming to Dinner? and dinner by burning crosses was never my thing anyway. I couldn't spare putting holes in any white linen for the only other place we might meet. We generally save those for more stimulating conversational guests than Roscoe and/or Boss Hogg. As you can see I would be able to address your age group with TV land references though. Theres at least that but alas no interest.

                                                    I'd rather visit the White House...... and I'd be more likely to be invited.
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
                                                      Our schools are out of control. Too many kids are being mistreated, abused and neglected.

                                                      But they aren't the only ones under attack.

                                                      According the U.S. Department of Education, 127,120 (4 percent) public school teachers (K-12) were physically attacked at school - hit, kicked, bitten, slapped, stabbed or shot - during the 2007-08 school year. Another 222,460 teachers (7 percent) were threatened by students with acts of violence.

                                                      NEA - When Educators Are Assaulted
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                    Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                                                    Probably not. I would not tolerate the likes of Mike Anthony in my presence.

                                                    Ironically, I would like to have a beer or two with Tim, Steve (whateverpedia) and a few others. We might have to agree to disagree on a couple of topics, then relax and enjoy ourselves.

                                                    We might even enjoy some vacuum cleaner salesman stories, who knows.

                                                    Then there's Kay King...


                                                    Joe Mobley
                                                    Strangely enough, I think I'd really like to spend time with a few here that I almost never agree with. Andrew (Discrat), Steve Johnson, Tim Phelan, a few others. They are men of principle.

                                                    Of course, Kay King is at the top of the list. Most others know who they are.

                                                    But Big Frank and Dennis Gaskill, I just want to give a big hug.

                                                    But yeah, I suspect one or two here would end up in a room alone.

                                                    And Dammit! I want to meet Shane. And I want to fight Sal in a Cage Match.
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author discrat
                                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                      Strangely enough, I think I'd really like to spend time with a few here that I almost never agree with. Andrew (Discrat), Steve Johnson, Tim Phelan, a few others. They are men of principle.

                                                      Of course, Kay King is at the top of the list. Most others know who they are.

                                                      But Big Frank and Dennis Gaskill, I just want to give a big hug.

                                                      But yeah, I suspect one or two here would end up in a room alone.

                                                      And Dammit! I want to meet Shane. And I want to fight Sal in a Cage Match.
                                                      Fwiw Andrew is my last name. Robert is my first name.

                                                      Not that it matters but lately you have been saying Andrew and thought you might be confused

                                                      I do realize guys call other guys by their last name. So that may be the case and that is perfectly fine .

                                                      Thanks for the compliment.

                                                      Anyway, I have a strong suspicion if anybody here met face to face it would be a totally different story.

                                                      We get too use with the anonymity of the Computer. It makes it easy to take on different or more exaggerated personas of their real selfs for some people .

                                                      If you have a Cause that you truly believe in (for some people) it gets amplified by 100 times when it comes to a venue like this.

                                                      Really interesting phenomenon
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                                                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                                        Fwiw Andrew is my last name. Robert is my first name.

                                                        Not that it matters but lately you have been saying Andrew and thought you might be confused

                                                        I do realize guys call other guys by their last name. So that may be the case and that is perfectly fine .
                                                        If you had any class at all, you would immediately change your name to Andrew Robert, so I wouldn't look like an idiot.




                                                        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                                        We get too use with the anonymity of the Computer. It makes it easy to take on different or more exaggerated personas of their real selfs for some people .
                                                        What you get from me is actually closer to my real self, than you get in public. I'm still wearing a mask here, but it's thinner.

                                                        Which brings me to a long involved story about myself.....and how I'm so special......

                                                        Just kidding. I'll type it out on paper, and mail it to you in a box.
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                      Banned
                                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                      But Big Frank and Dennis Gaskill, I just want to give a big hug.
                                                      If I thought for one minute that you would confine your actions to giving me a hug, I'd be happy to meet you in person. I know better than to believe that.

                                                      I'm even more irresistible in person.

                                                      Cheers. - Frank
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                      But Big Frank and Dennis Gaskill, I just want to give a big hug.

                                                      But yeah, I suspect one or two here would end up in a room alone.
                                                      ROFL....thats why I find the basement so funny at times. Members of It just cant help exposing their egotistical self absorbed the world revolves around them because they post on a forum bent. We are now having an ongoing discussion about who would be alone and who would not be tolerated in their presence

                                                      .............As if anyone would need/want or themselves could tolerate to present themselves to this sorry down stair clan..ROFL...Its soo funny (I literally can't stop chuckling at the idea)...who knew you could get that important posting at the bottom of forum telling the same jokes over and over with no originality where even in marketing no one considers you a big name and most don't know you at all despite decades in the field .
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                                                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
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                                                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                          Guess who would be in a room alone.

                                                          Guess who would be waiting with a vaccum cleaner in his hand expecting me to bother coming (for what reason I have no idea). told you before and you have proven me right - too many Claude jokes have made you entirely too self absorbed. The world is not dying to meet or spend time with you.

                                                          Back on subject now perhaps?
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                                      Banned
                                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                      But yeah, I suspect one or two here would end up in a room alone
                                                      Since my name wasn't mentioned in the "like to meet" I can only assume that I would be banished to the all alone in the room room. I would be there with all the other all alone in the room people who have been so banished, which is fine with me. I've been all alone in rooms full of people who were all alone in the room before. Just let me know when this will occur so I can plan the "all alone in the room party."
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                                                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                                        Since my name wasn't mentioned in the "like to meet" I can only assume that I would be banished to the all alone in the room room. I would be there with all the other all alone in the room people who have been so banished, which is fine with me. I've been all alone in rooms full of people who were all alone in the room before. Just let me know when this will occur so I can plan the "all alone in the room party."

                                                        Are you kidding?

                                                        And I would end up in the "Huge Ego" room, all alone...except for Kurt.

                                                        If I ever met Kurt, all our sentences would start with, "I'm smarter than you because....."

                                                        And after 5 minutes, I would walk out of the room, crying.......needing a hug.
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                                                      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                        Banned
                                                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                                        Since my name wasn't mentioned in the "like to meet" I can only assume that I would be banished to the all alone in the room room. I would be there with all the other all alone in the room people who have been so banished, which is fine with me. I've been all alone in rooms full of people who were all alone in the room before. Just let me know when this will occur so I can plan the "all alone in the room party."
                                                        What makes you think that you'd ever get out of 'our' room. :-)

                                                        Cheers. - Frank
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                                                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                                          Banned
                                                          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                                          What makes you think that you'd ever get out of 'our' room. :-)

                                                          Cheers. - Frank
                                                          lol ... you big steaming hunk of man. Who would want to get out of "our room."
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                                                          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                            Banned
                                                            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                                            lol ... you big steaming hunk of poop.
                                                            Fixed. Just figured I'd beat some loser to the punch. :-)

                                                            Cheers. - Frank
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                                                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                                            lol ... you big steaming hunk of man. Who would want to get out of "our room."
                                                            You would, the second you saw Frank.
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                                                            • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                              Banned
                                                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                              You would, the second you saw Frank.
                                                              Your desperate attempt to keep me all to yourself is futile. The rest of the world clamors.

                                                              Cheers. - Frank
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                                                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                                Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                                                Your desperate attempt to keep me all to yourself is futile. The rest of the world clamors.

                                                                Cheers. - Frank
                                                                Yeah, but not towards you.
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                                                                • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                                  Banned
                                                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                                  Yeah, but not towards you.
                                                                  You're correct in one way. Not towards me but most definitely for me. :-)

                                                                  Cheers. - Frank
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                                                                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                                    Principal thrown to the floor, 3 students arrested in lunchroom brawl | WGN-TV

                                                                    Blitzer on CNN just reported the story above -and to get as much attention as possible he added "where WAS the school resource officer in charge of security"? Had to laugh at that comment...so playing to the current news coverage...

                                                                    These are 13-15 yr olds but don't look or act like innocent children.
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                                                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                                  Banned
                                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                  I find it really really hard to believe that most of the people here would speak to each other in person.
                                                  Fixed that for you Claude. lol.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author discrat
                                                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                I dunno I think the doozie for me was when some pretty up there in age guys were arguing 16 shouldn't be statutory. That was an eye popping thread given some of the participants.
                                                Yep the old "Eat Fresh" attitudes !
                                                Oh oh ,better let sleeping dogs lie.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
                                            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                            Here's what's interesting in this particular forum. There is often posted a complete and utter disrespect for government, laws, politicians, cops, big corporations, big pharma, big this and big that.

                                            And yet, in this particular thread, you hear the same old mantra over and over again ... respect authority. Teach your children to respect authority. You must respect authority.

                                            Fu*k authority.

                                            Cops: You have to stay safe and not argue with a cop because they're likely to just blow your ass away if you show your utter contempt for their abuse and misuse of power. Believe it or not, I've met some cops that I like and who aren't egomaniacs with a gun. But you don't know beforehand which ones are a powder keg waiting to blow up.

                                            Cops killing unarmed people is becoming more and more commonplace. Cops overreacting to what should be minor matters in the day of a cop happens all the time. Thank goodness for smart phones because most people are carrying around the ability to provide proof of this abuse of power and crimes against civilians. Good cops aren't afraid of cellphones.

                                            Teachers: They're just people like everyone else and as such, are prone to the same prejudices and quirks as others. Some teachers just plain don't like certain students and go out of their way to make things difficult for them. Some teachers are bigots and will ignore the education of children with a different ethnic background than themselves. I know ... hard to believe ... huh? Some teachers want to have sex with children. Both men and women teachers have been guilty of this. Some teachers are just plain mean sons of bitches and have no business working with the public, much less children. Having 4 children of my own, I've met them all.

                                            The government: Who really respects our government these days? You get out and vote because they've made promises that are important to you. Once elected, you find that they're really in someone else's pocket and could care less about their promises. The goal was to get elected so that they can fulfill their promises to the people that have greased their greedy, sweaty little palms, and screw you ... the people who voted for them. Who can respect that?

                                            For all these people who are calling for blind respect for authority, do you mean that black and other minority children should respect authority or children in general should trust and respect authority, but you don't really have to. It's ok for you to say fu*k the government, fu*ck the laws, but don't talk back to a teacher or a cop while black.
                                            I think Ive decided I'm going to teach my kid...to be the kid who gets up out of her seat and walks over to the kid who's being a b*tch not putting her phone away when she was asked to...and punch her right in the nose as hard as she can.

                                            The lesson has to be learned somehow....my kid will get praise from me for teaching it.

                                            ...oh look a hornet
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                                            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                              Banned
                                              Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

                                              I think Ive decided I'm going to teach my kid...to be the kid who gets up out of her seat and walks over to the kid who's being a b*tch not putting her phone away when she was asked to...and punch her right in the nose as hard as she can.

                                              The lesson has to be learned somehow....my kid will get praise from me for teaching it.

                                              ...oh look a hornet
                                              A hornet indeed. Go ahead and teach your kid to be a violent bully, or better yet, encourage them to be a cop.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                                A hornet indeed. Go ahead and teach your kid to be a violent bully, or better yet, encourage them to be a cop.
                                                ROFL......touche!


                                                Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

                                                I think Ive decided I'm going to teach my kid...to be the kid who gets up out of her seat and walks over to the kid who's being a b*tch not putting her phone away when she was asked to...and punch her right in the nose as hard as she can.

                                                The lesson has to be learned somehow....my kid will get praise from me for teaching it.
                                                Best way to make sure they learn is to show them how to do it yourself. we can watch it on video and buy popcorn for your trial. We can all say we knew him when --- and are not surprised since he was an adult going around calling minor girls "b^tches"
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                                            • Profile picture of the author yukon
                                              Banned
                                              Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

                                              I think Ive decided I'm going to teach my kid...to be the kid who gets up out of her seat and walks over to the kid who's being a b*tch not putting her phone away when she was asked to...and punch her right in the nose as hard as she can.

                                              The lesson has to be learned somehow....my kid will get praise from me for teaching it.

                                              ...oh look a hornet


                                              O'doyle Rules!






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                              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

                                What you seem to be avoiding though is the absolute, rock solid fact that the girl, and the girl alone, had 100% control of whether or not this escalated. Simply by doing what was asked of her. You keep focusing on the after the fact stuff that got way out of hand.
                                ?
                                and why shouldn't we? lets look at the logic that a few of you thinks is so rational and we will see how utterly irrational it is (and you are always on matters that may involve race). Why do we have laws about what cops can and cannot do? if the ethos is well that wouldn't happen if the perp didn't do this then we should just write into our laws (or leave out as the case may be ) - perp gets whatever cop thinks worthy - the end

                                We don't and we don't for a central common sense reason that flies over some of your heads. Wrong is not made right because of who did what first. I can't murder a man because he slapped me yesterday and say - if he hadn't have slapped me then this would't have happened - Thats a fact"

                                Nope thats a STUPID fact. My actions after someone did something to me or against me does not negate my criminality and make it the victims fault PARTICULARLY in cases where my own well being is not threatened. As long as there is no danger the law EXPLICITLY states that what they did does not come in to consideration AT ALL in my using excessive force. Saying well he started it first and had it coming is how over half the murders locked up think.

                                If I am not paying attention and I go 66 miles in a 65 miles an hour zone I am not obligated to expect bullets whizzing through my car. Citing well heres the 100% undeniable fact - if I had not been speeding a mile over the speed limit that would not happen is not a good observation. Its a silly observation because the law already states that is not the point and will NEVER be the point because cops are not allowed to shoot me for going over the speed limit!

                                What makes this even more silly as an observation here is that the child CANNOT be criminally prosecuted in the same way that the adult cop has to answer the music. So the law EXPLICITLY states its him not her that has the greater responsibility to follow the law regardless of what she does. Why ? because the law is recognizing what many of you can't process to save your lives . We don't process under age citizens the same way because we have an implicit understanding that they are not yet mentally capable of making the decisions that adults do.

                                So congratulations - you all can take a bow - as adults talking about the law you don't have a clue about whats built into the law regarding minors.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
                                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                  and why shouldn't we? lets look at the logic that a few of you thinks is so rational and we will see how utterly irrational it is (and you are always on matters that may involve race). Why do we have laws about what cops can and cannot do? if the ethos is well that wouldn't happen if the perp didn't do this then we should just write into our laws (or leave out as the case may be ) - perp gets whatever cop thinks worthy - the end

                                  We don't and we don't for a central common sense reason that flies over some of your heads. Wrong is not made right because of who did what first. I can't murder a man because he slapped me yesterday and say - if he hadn't have slapped me then this would't have happened - Thats a fact"

                                  Nope thats a STUPID fact. My actions after someone did something to me or against me does not negate my criminality and make it the victims fault PARTICULARLY in cases where my own well being is not threatened. As long as there is no danger the law EXPLICITLY states that what they did does not come in to consideration AT ALL in my using excessive force. Saying well he started it first and had it coming is how over half the murders locked up think.

                                  If I am not paying attention and I go 66 miles in a 65 miles an hour zone I am not obligated to expect bullets whizzing through my car. Citing well heres the 100% undeniable fact - if I had not been speeding a mile over the speed limit that would not happen is not a good observation. Its a silly observation because the law already states that is not the point and will NEVER be the point because cops are not allowed to shoot me for going over the speed limit!

                                  What makes this even more silly as an observation here is that the child CANNOT be criminally prosecuted in the same way that the adult cop has to answer the music. So the law EXPLICITLY states its him not her that has the greater responsibility to follow the law regardless of what she does. Why ? because the law is recognizing what many of you can't process to save your lives . We don't process under age citizens the same way because we have an implicit understanding that they are not yet mentally capable of making the decisions that adults do.

                                  So congratulations - you all can take a bow - as adults talking about the law you don't have a clue about whats built into the law regarding minors.
                                  um....

                                  to be clear....nowhere have I asserted that the cop was justified, or right. ...and unless I skipped a comment or two....I'm pretty sure no one else has either.

                                  Should the penalty for disobeying a teacher and not put a phone away be getting pummeled by a Policeman?

                                  No it should not.

                                  We all get that and agree on that.

                                  Now...welcome to the deeper, more meaningful part of the conversation where we are talking about how its a good idea to, in the very first place, make decisions that follow the rules and keep people willing to work with you peacefully
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                    Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

                                    Now...welcome to the deeper, more meaningful
                                    Sorry not how it really works. On a forum people will discuss all the issues. telling people as you did and I responded to that theres a problem with focusing on the officer clearly in the greater wrong will and has failed. Following that up with the idea you determine what is the more meaningful or ahem deeper part of the discussion is another failure in being logical.

                                    Most people in this thread have already made the determination that how adults handle children is the more pressing matter. Apparently you are in the minority as most administrative bodies with input in the situation are concluding what we are - the focus should be on the police officer almost to the exclusion of all else because as I noted minors are not by law as responsible for their decisions as adults are.

                                    Thats just the way it is
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                      . Doing it your way or mine and it's still the girl who is the bad person as it should of been seeing how she caused all this.
                      Absolutely brilliant insight. And maybe the best reason to avoid physical contact with a student when they misbehave. If the girl was just put in the hall, there may actually be a learning moment.

                      And now, she is the victim and the hero of the story. And she has learned nothing that will help her later in life, except that misbehaving gets her attention.

                      After you strip away all the anger and frustration we read here (in many of the posts), maybe the most important thing is, how is this going to affect the student(s)? They are at an age when they are forming the way they see the world.

                      Seeing a cop dump a fellow student on the floor, seeing the misbehaving girl become the hero of the story...doesn't help anyone.

                      Seeing that misbehaving won't be tolerated, but will be treated non-physically, sends a great message to everyone involved.


                      Just an opinion. But I thought your post was very well thought out.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
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                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

                        I think that it's really sad that a Police Officer who just received the district's highest award 1-2 years ago (I can't remember which, but it showed the picture on CNN) may very well lose his job because this bratty kid created this situation by refusing to submit to authority. The guy will not only lose his income, but his career would likely be over, as well. Totally sucks.

                        I also think the school should have handled this and the Officer should have never been put in this position.
                        He didn't lose his job because of a bratty kid. He lost his job because he is an aggressive asshole who has no business in law enforcement or any other job where he has authority over citizens.

                        And that award you mentioned, it was the Culture of Excellence Award at Lonnie B. Nelson Elementary School in Columbia. It means that he did his job to protect students. He hadn't brutally assaulted any children, so he got an award. clap clap clap
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                    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post


                      Another thought would be to call the parents and tell them their child is disrupting class and to come and remove her. If them come and get her she will be suspended for x amount of days. If not she will be arrested for disturbing the peace and expelled.
                      Another way is for the cop to calmly but sternly tell the teen that she will be arrested and will then spend the day/night in juvenile hall if she doesn't leave on her own. Explain that this will be on her record and hurt her chances of getting a job or getting accepted into college. Give her a time limit of some sort to mull it over. If she still doesn't respond pull out the cuffs. When protesters know they are going to be arrested if they don't move and then don't move, they expect to be arrested and usually don't resist. It's their choice then.

                      Personally, I don't think this is a situation for a cop anyways.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                        Another way is for the cop to calmly but sternly tell the teen
                        That "calmly but sternly tell"ing sh!t didn't work... from the teacher, from a school administrator or from the cop.

                        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                        Personally, I don't think this is a situation for a cop anyways.
                        It wasn't, until the student's actions... illegal actions created the situation.


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                        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                          Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                          That "calmly but sternly tell"ing sh!t didn't work... from the teacher, from a school administrator or from the cop.



                          It didn't, until the student's actions... illegal actions created the situation.


                          Joe Mobley
                          How do you know how the cop talked to her and what he said?

                          And the illegal actions were? Not giving up her cell phone. She apologized according to others. That cop could have broken her neck easily. To justify that by saying she caused it by her "illegal actions" is just ludicrous.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                            Perhaps had the teacher taken a different track...



                            Just saying.


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                          • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                            To justify that by saying she caused it by her "illegal actions" is just ludicrous.
                            The girl in the South Carolina incident, captured on other students' cellphone videos, faces a misdemeanor charge under South Carolina's "disturbing school" law.
                            Violent South Carolina classroom arrest - LA Times


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                          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                            To justify that by saying she caused it by her "illegal actions" is just ludicrous.
                            I'd normally see with your surprise but given who it is I just can't say its ludicrous - its just entirely expected. I know everyone wants to say - nothing about race its all irrelevant (which given other cases the cop is facing is nonsense to claim) but look at the demographics in the thread. With a few notable exceptions its lined up pretty well with conversations in the past that have been about race.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        .
        That being said I have to say this may be a incident of racism. But it may not. He could have done same thing to a white girl.
        He may well have . I would not be one to say that every such case is but my point is that particularly in South Carolina now - how could you not be aware of the race issue? Add the whole cop issue on top of it and you would have to have alzheimer issues to approach an african american and not have that in mind.

        given the present atmosphere there and among cops its just not credible to think he was unaware of race.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        I think SC and many of the Southern states have a long way to go to overcome the Racism that has been present for many years.

        The late sixty and seventy year olds ( many that I know) still hold onto to the fact of "that is just the way things were when I was growing up" will be dying off in the next couple of decades so hopefully that will help a little
        .
        That being said I have to say this may be a incident of racism. But it may not. He could have done same thing to a white girl.

        I do not know his full history



        I'm in SC & have worked with a lot of different people offline over the years. Skin color has nothing to do with a person being an asshole. The cop in that video is just an asshole/ plain & simple.

        I see more racism in Gov funding than I do in public & it's not just black or white. I've worked with a lot of Asian immigrants that didn't have to pay US taxes for X amount of years because they were immigrants. IMO that's discrimination against tax paying citizens.

        Research Equal Opportunity Employment for Gov business contracts, the Gov makes it mandatory a certain percentage of employees are of specific race regardless of skills. Again, Gov supporting racism.

        United Negro College Fund, racist. How many organizations in 2015 only support white students or any other skin color?

        If any other group started a race based organization it would be on a Gov watch list.

        The United Negro College Fund, or UNCF, is an American philanthropic organization that funds scholarships for black students and general scholarship funds for 39 private historically black colleges and universities.
        You want to stop racism, start with Gov. promoting discrimination.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          I'm in SC & have worked with a lot of different people offline over the years. Skin color has nothing to do with a person being an asshole. The cop in that video is just an asshole/ plain & simple.
          He might be but SC has issues and the facts speak for themselves. Multiple issues in the news recently, one of the last states to legalize interracial marriages. Didn't do it until 1998. LOL 19 freaking 98 - just missed going int the 21st century with their old ways. Only considered removing an offense flag after people died. Home to a lot of racists.

          I keep hearing the same things from people who live there who are not of color - no problem..yad yada yada but just had an in law move out who previously bought that it was all over . turns out the fellow workers couldn't adjust to a person of color being in a position of authority over them. She could command more money elsewhere as it is so couldn't be bothered with the hassle and quite and left.

          United Negro College Fund, racist. How many organizations in 2015 only support white students or any other skin color?
          Why should there be any. they had their turn going to universities and colleges while African Americans were not allowed at almost all of them.

          Their turn now. You oppress a people for a long time then they deserve a go at things for at least half as long so they can recover from it. Fair is Fair especially if you built things on their backs with undue compensation
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            He might be but SC has issues and the facts speak for themselves. Multiple issues in the news recently, one of the last states to legalize interracial marriages. Didn't do it until 1998. LOL 19 freaking 98 - just missed going int the 21st century with their old ways. Only considered removing an offense flag after people died. Home to a lot of racists.

            I keep hearing the same things from people who live there who are not of color - no problem..yad yada yada but just had an in law move out who previously bought that it was all over . turns out the fellow workers couldn't adjust to a person of color being in a position of authority over them. She could command more money elsewhere as it is so couldn't be bothered with the hassle and quite and left.



            Why should there be any. they had their turn going to universities and colleges while African Americans were not allowed at almost all of them.

            Their turn now. You oppress a people for a long time then they deserve a go at things for at least half as long so they can recover from it. Fair is Fair especially if you built things on their backs with undue compensation


            By You (oppress a people for a long time), I guess you mean the voices in your head because I've never oppressed anyone.

            Last I checked Florida had some old world problems. It's not like problems stop at the state line.

            BTW, the SC Governors parents are direct immigrants from India. So yea, stuck in the old ways, lol.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              By You (oppress a people for a long time), I guess you mean the voices in your head because I've never oppressed anyone.
              No I meant the generic you used often in communications that you are obviously unaware of. here -

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_you

              maybe one of the voices in your head will read it to you

              Last I checked Florida had some old world problems. It's not like problems stop at the state line.

              BTW, the SC Governors parents are direct immigrants from India. So yea, stuck in the old ways, lol.
              shucks why would I of all people claim racism was limited to SC? does it have specially issue with it? yes Oh and thanks for the ethnic background of the SC governor. Kind of like "we elected an African American president so there are no racism issues anymore".
              Gotchya
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              • Profile picture of the author yukon
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                No I meant the generic you used often in communications that you are obviously unaware of. here -

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_you

                Turn off C-SPAN for a minute & watch this video.










                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                yes Oh and thanks for the ethnic background of the SC governor. Kind of like "we elected an African American president so there are no racism issues anymore".
                Gotchya

                Right, when you're not talking about SC.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                  Turn off C-SPAN for a minute & watch this video.
                  .
                  If you have that much problem understanding the wikipedia link on the subject of the generic you then youtube probably will not help you. You might need to go back to school
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  • That's just brutal.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    The brutality against a high school student shown in that video is beyond comprehension. That man is nothing but an animal. The FBI is investigating this one. They sure didn't waste time entering the picture. I can only hope that the animal's career in law enforcement is over and the department gets sued from here to kingdom come.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      The best cops aren't assigned to school duty....but how do you remove an adult sized person who is refusing to stand and refusing repeated requests to leave the room? Do you let her stay? Do you get help and carry her - and the chair - out of the room? I don't know the answers.

      What happened to teachers who could control the students in their classes? What happened to students who respect the authority of teachers or cops?

      Don't know the other side of the story - some say the student was only chewing gum - other students say she was using her cell phone in class. Edit: Doesn't excuse his actions and seems he's had problems before.

      The story doesn't anger me - I don't know the people. I think it's sad this same refrain keeps playing over and over - no respect and too much violence.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        The best cops aren't assigned to school duty....but how do you remove an adult sized person who is refusing to stand and refusing repeated requests to leave the room? Do you let her stay? Do you get help and carry her - and the chair - out of the room? I don't know the answers.

        What happened to teachers who could control the students in their classes? What happened to students who respect the authority of teachers or cops?

        Don't know the other side of the story - some say the student was only chewing gum - other students say she was using her cell phone in class.

        The story doesn't anger me - I don't know the people. I think it's sad this same refrain keeps playing over and over - no respect and too much violence.

        I have the answer, fire the cop & throw him in jail for assault and/or child abuse like would happen to any other adult that beat up a kid.

        He literally body slammed that girl while she was sitting at a desk & threw her across the room. Major overkill for something as petty as a cell phone.
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  • Profile picture of the author butters
    Only in america, lets slam a kid in a chair with a table on top of them without a care in the world for their neck, back etc... Might as well of just tasered her if your willing to go that far.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Doris Kenny, the teen's mother, said that she was proud of her daughter's bravery to stand up to the officer.
      Was she proud of her daughter standing up to her teacher, too? Is the mother proud that her daughter was using a cell phone (according to some students in the class) and disruptive in class?

      Don't you put your child at risk when you teach them to defy orders from police? This should not have happened but shouldn't parents be teaching respect for authority instead of teaching teens to "stand up to" adults like teachers and cops.

      I have no sympathy for this cop - but not much for the girl, either.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Was she proud of her daughter standing up to her teacher, too? Is the mother proud that her daughter was using a cell phone (according to some students in the class) and disruptive in class?

        Don't you put your child at risk when you teach them to defy orders from police? This should not have happened but shouldn't parents be teaching respect for authority instead of teaching teens to "stand up to" adults like teachers and cops.

        I have no sympathy for this cop - but not much for the girl, either.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by butters View Post

      Only in america, lets slam a kid in a chair with a table on top of them without a care in the world for their neck, back etc... Might as well of just tasered her if your willing to go that far.
      Hey Brit. Don't forget we have seen how you carry on in your house of parliament!
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  • Watchin' the vid, I can't tell the kid is black. Or a girl.

    Even with these 2 stings pulled out, it still looks brutal.

    Some fully grown man throwin' a kid onto their back an' draggin' them across the floor.

    An' see: even when you take away the uniform, the gift of responsibility an' power, it's still a horror show.

    But let's remove all the stings.

    Let's make the guy another kid, same sex.

    So now we got two equals, only one is throwin' the other over on their back an' draggin' them across the floor.

    In any decent school, that kinda conflict gonna be stopped.

    One kid beatin' on another? Hey c'mon.

    So now ya throw the uniform back in, along with the fully grown man an' the girl an' the black, and blow up the equal all unequal.

    Nuthin' gets stopped, and there is no hey c'mon, so what kinda learnin' is goin' on here?
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    For the record, local schools in my county (in SC) block cell service. I'm sure most public schools do the same.

    Odds are the worst the girl was doing was listening to music/video or playing games, assuming the phone was the original problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    I guess I'm on the opposite side of the fence. I've watched the video several times and although it's an unfortunate incident that may have been handled better, at what point are people in authority allowed to say "enough's, enough"?

    The teacher asked the kid to get off the cell phone several times. The kid refused.

    The teacher called the principal, who told the girl to come to his office, but the kid refused.

    The principal finally called the Police Officer, who also asked the kid to get off the phone. The kid refused and the officer took action. He did NOT attempt to choke the kid! The kid allegedly hit the officer first. He then swung around her and attempted to grab her hands in order to handcuff her, but the kid struggled, so the officer took her down. You could hear him saying several times "give me your hands", so the kid not only assaulted the officer, but also resisted arrest.

    Once again, it's too bad that this couldn't have been handled differently and I'm sure the officer's actions will be thoroughly scrutinized.

    My point is when is enough, enough? Kids are NOT supposed to have free reign to do as they wish in schools. There have been multiple cases of kids assaulting teachers and bringing weapons to school. At some point these kids have to understand that they are NOT in charge!

    In this case I think the parents should have probably been called and the child expelled from school. Still, I don't have a major problem with the way the officer handled it at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

      He did NOT attempt to choke the kid! The kid allegedly hit the officer first. He then swung around her and attempted to grab her hands in order to handcuff her, but the kid struggled, so the officer took her down. You could hear him saying several times "give me your hands", so the kid not only assaulted the officer, but also resisted arrest.
      LOL.. pure garbage .It amusing to see what people claim to see even in defiance of the video itself. This reminds me of the New York incident when the guy in New York was choked to death said he could not breath and the video shows the arm right around the throat but it was claimed here he was not choked when IT WAS RIGHT THERE IN THE VIDEO

      In this case theres no actual choking but a choke hold is used briefly and the girl is flipped backwards (dangerous head trauma potential move) and tossed to the front of the room. despite Joe's claims only then does the cop say several times give me your hands. by then the girl is probably dazed after that violent takedown but errr not presenting her hands to be cuffed is "resisting arrest"according to Joe.

      There is no assault. theres is probably some resist in her body but no swing or attack. Joe gets one thing right a few times

      "the kid".....the kid.......the kid...."

      not an adult....not any situation when the cop is in danger of his life even once even in his wildest dream. There are situations where a cop might want to make sure the potential for his own harm is dealt with by excessive force but this isn't one of them.

      I guess I'm on the opposite side of the fence.
      No Joe. If my recollections serves me well. You are on the same side of the fence you always are
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        No Joe. If my recollections serves me well. You are on the same side of the fence you always are
        What? I hardly ever post here anymore, so you're either holding onto a long term vendetta or you've got me confused with someone else.


        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        LOL.. pure garbage.It amusing to see what people claim to see even in defiance of the video itself.
        Well, here's one area where we agree. I just watched the entire thing again while they went through the entire sequence in slow motion. The girl CLEARLY hit the Officer in the neck and he did not have her in a choke hold. Watch it again.

        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        In this case theres no actual choking but a choke hold is used briefly and the girl is flipped backwards (dangerous head trauma potential move) and tossed to the front of the room. despite Joe's claims only then does the cop say several times give me your hands. by then the girl is probably dazed after that violent takedown but errr not presenting her hands to be cuffed is "resisting arrest"according to Joe.
        In all reality the girl was already guilty of a misdemeanor for disrupting class in a public school. That's the law there. With her having already broken the law, and refusing to submit to authority THREE times, the Officer finally deemed it necessary to take the action he took.

        As I already said, it could have been handled differently, but I don't have a problem at all with what the Officer did. She had PLENTY of opportunities to give up her phone and submit to authority, but she refused.

        Reminds me of an old John Mellencamp song. "The Authority Song". Goes like this "I fight authority, authority always wins."

        Funny how that works.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

          What? I hardly ever post here anymore, so you're either holding onto a long term vendetta or you've got me confused with someone else.
          We both been on this forum for years where did I say it was recent and why woud it be a vendetta to remember your former positions? get real


          Well, here's one area where we agree. I just watched the entire thing again while they went through the entire sequence in slow motion. The girl CLEARLY hit the Officer in the neck and he did not have her in a choke hold. Watch it again.
          Go ahead Joe show it to me because I just watched it five times on You tube and the only time I see her hand even get close to the neck of the officer is on her way down after being flipped backwards out of the hold.


          In all reality the girl was already guilty of a misdemeanor for disrupting class in a public school. That's the law there.

          So what? That justifies brutalizing a kid. You really think anyone here needed to be told about the law? not the point

          I don't have a problem at all with what the Officer did.
          Of course not because it s not your kid or your grandchild and you probably will kid yourself yours could never be belligerent

          Reminds me of an old John Mellencamp song. "The Authority Song". Goes like this "I fight authority, authority always wins."

          Funny how that works.
          Funny how a grown man talking about right and wrong can find it funny and worthy of song comparison for levity a kid being brutalized
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          • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
            You're way off base, Mike. Watch the CNN updates.

            Personally, I could care less what you think about me, either. I'm not going to sit here and waste anymore of my time reading your uninformed crap.

            Later
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

              You're way off base, Mike. Watch the CNN updates.

              Personally, I could care less what you think about me, either. I'm not going to sit here and waste anymore of my time reading your uninformed crap.
              Which means I can't back my point so I am gone. bye bye Joe

              I'd like to see where the kids hand every reaches the neck level as Joe claims in this video because I see that only as she is going backwards. I've watched CNN videos too but thats more cumbersome to link to



              I've seen another one where her hand is out but can't tell whether he has pulled it there and nowhere near any neck. Every CNN video I have looked at shows no hit to the neckthat starts that altercation. Either I am looking at the wrong videos or I want some of what Joe is smoking.

              Nothing happens until he is behind her so not getting how you swing and attack someone without turning around

              If I saw a swing or a punch before this starts or even before the flip I'd do a 180 because Yep I have seen middle schoolers who deserved a beat down based on their own violence. If he even pushes her against the wall to hand cuff but flip backs are DANGEROUS with serious brain injury potential.
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              • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Which means I can't back my point so I am gone. bye bye Joe

                I'd like to see where the kids hand every reaches the neck level as Joe claims in this video because I see that only as she is going backwards


                Camera catches South Carolina police officer throwing student from desk - YouTube

                I've seen another one where her hand is out but can't tell whether he has pulled it there. Every CNN video I have looked at shows no hit to the next that starts that altercation. Either I ma looking at the wrong videos or I want some of what Joe is smoking.

                Nothing happens until he is behind her so not getting how you swing and attack someone without turning around
                Watch the CNN video in slow motion. It CLEARLY shows that she hit him! Watch it ON CNN where they break it down frame by frame.

                I don't "smoke" anything, I've bullets whizzing by my head, too and do NOT condone child abuse or excessive force of any kind. I simply don't believe that this was excessive.

                Agree with me or don't. Once again, I don't care.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

                  Watch the CNN video in slow motion. It CLEARLY shows that she hit him! Watch it ON CNN where they break it down frame by frame.
                  second time Link to it if you can. Heres the problem. The videos on youtube are THE SAME videos but some are enhanced. CNN had no crew there. They are student camera footage. Two of them I know about and the officer is clearly behind her when he begins to get her up. I see absolutely nothing near the neck level as you are claiming ....nada.

                  Not until he spins her out of the hold at which case I don't know how you can claim with any certainty thats an attack and not a reaction. I don't know many people with that control to make that hit purposefully going backwards - edit: one cnn video enhanced does show her with a fist but again she is on her way backwards and doesn't even seem to connect.

                  P.S. The big downside to watching it on CNN is they use a blur circle because she is a minor. The blur circle covers over the arm around the girls neck already pulling her backwards into what ends up being the flip.
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                  • Profile picture of the author discrat
                    The video is just not clear at all.

                    Of course the police officer could and should have handled it much better.

                    But is it a fact that the girl did nothing ?? I mean you still cannot see it clearly right before he flips her.

                    I ask this because what if she really took a good swipe at his crotch or pulled his johnson very hard.
                    Iam not trying to be funny, really.

                    I can honestly say if anyone really got a hard ,quick, direct hit in my crotch I (like many other males) would react almost reflexively....and many times it is not pretty. ( Think bulls in rodeos. And the strap they wrap around their scrotums)

                    Iam not saying he would be justified at all if she did take a swipe at his manhood and he did this, but it would be an explanation for his violence ( even though it is still a very weak and inexcusable one).

                    P.S. Why is the mother proud of her delinquent daughter ? Ridiculous. That right there is one reason are youth are in the sh@tter right now...parents who are terrible parents
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by discrat View Post


                      P.S. Why is the mother proud of her delinquent daughter ? Ridiculous. That right there is one reason are youth are in the sh@tter right now...parents who are terrible parents
                      Anyone have a link for that. the only parent I have heard so far proud is the girl who stood up and protested and got arrested for that

                      The deputy also arrested a second student who verbally objected to his actions. Both girls were charged with disturbing schools and released to their parents. Their names were not officially released.

                      The second student, Niya Kenny, told WLTX-TV that she felt she had to say something. Doris Kenny said she's proud her daughter was "brave enough to speak out against what was going on."

                      Appearing on MSNBC Tuesday night, Niya Kenny said an administrator told her to sit down, be quiet and to put her cellphone away. She refused.

                      "'This is not right. This is not right,'" Kenny recalled saying in the classroom. "'I can't believe y'all are doing this to her.'"
                      Feds probing videotaped arrest of disruptive student | SanDiegoUnionTribune.com

                      I'd be proud of my child for that too. Darned proud
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                  • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                    Whether or not this young girl (who clearly deserves to be punished - at least suspended from school for a few days) hit or punched the officer, it doesn't justify his behavior.

                    Any competent police officer - certainly one of his size - should know how to quickly subdue a thin female teen, who's probably 100 lbs dripping wet, without resorting to the brutality he exhibited. There was absolutely no excuse for him throwing her across the floor. That was nothing more than his way of letting her, and everyone else, know how "big and tough" he is. That's a clear indication this officer has some serious issues that need to be addressed.

                    Even though she reportedly didn't suffer any injuries in this incident, she certainly could have, especially if she'd landed just right on her neck or head when pulled out of the chair or thrown across the floor.

                    As for the girl's mother reportedly being proud that she "stood up for herself", that's a whole other disturbing issue. Standing up for yourself when you're being blatantly disobedient towards authority for no justifiable reason is not the same as standing up for something worthwhile. While she didn't deserve the brutality, it was her fault that the cop was called into the classroom to deal with the situation. She was being foolishly defiant, and that mentality will very likely get this girl in serious trouble down the road - especially if she doesn't receive any reasonable punishment (and learn from it) for this incident.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      This is the best angle I have found without CNN's halo over her face which covers over where his arm is . It looks like she does try and throw a punch over her head but the cops arm is already around her throat pulling her back into what ends up being a flip. IF it did connect it was a tap but it doesn't even appear to and it IS after he begins that dangerous maneuver. Sheesh looks even more savage than the other angle. he spins her over and throws her across the floor in one fluid very purposefully (to me) maneuver. As he reaches for her neck pulling it back he reaches under leg so the flip was what he was going for.


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                      • Profile picture of the author discrat
                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        This is the best angle I have found without CNN's halo over her face which covers over where his arm is . It looks like she does try and throw a punch over her head but the cops arm is already around her throat pulling her back into what ends up being a flip. IF it did connect it was a tap but it doesn't even appear to and it IS after he begins that dangerous maneuver. Sheesh looks even more savage than the other angle. he spins her over and throws her across the floor in one fluid very purposefully (to me) maneuver.


                        South Carolina Cop Body Slams High School Student To The Ground - YouTube
                        Yeah thats pretty damn crazy. Bad cop, that is all there is to it. At least from what I see in this new angle.
                        Inexcusable. And no crotch grabbing
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                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                          Yeah thats pretty damn crazy. Bad cop, that is all there is to it. At least from what I see in this new angle.
                          Inexcusable. And no crotch grabbing
                          Yeah as I noticed after posting and added to my post - watch his left hand - guys a manaic -. He is going for around the throat (pulling back) and the left leg (lifting up) for leverage to purposefully spin her backwards. her punch motion is a defense mechanism and I can't blame her AT THAT POINT (IF I were her Dad she would still have heard something she didn't like from me for her beliigerence up to that point.).
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Well, it's getting difficult to blame parents when we live in a country that jails parents and takes kids away that are disciplined. This little brat obviously didn't get a few well deserved spankings for being a brat when she was at an age it might have taught her some respect and cooperation.

    The only way we're going to really get rid of problems like this is to get government the hell out of our living rooms and allow people to raise their children as they see fit - other than in cases of actual abuse. Normal discipline is NOT abuse.

    Secondly - we have to stop the militarization of our police forces. Some of these guys seem to think they are in a war zone and act like soldiers with an enemy instead of like public servants. They need to be better trained - and have better psychological profiles built before hire -- the force needs to quit being trained by human rights neglecting or violating corporations like Blackwater.

    And - kids of every color need to be made to understand that nobody, but nobody, gets an advantage because of race. They are all allowed in the same classrooms - they all need to understand that they will respect the same rules and the same people. If you have an issue with a teacher - go talk to the admin, you don't show off how "bad" you are in the classroom. Rude is rude in all colors.

    Had this happened in 1970 - she would have been paddled in front of the class or in the principle's office and nobody would have said hoot about it.

    BTW - I agree the little snot deserved to be bitch slapped - but that didn't look like any bitch slap I've ever seen.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Had this happened in 1970 - she would have been paddled in front of the class or in the principle's office and nobody would have said hoot about it.
      Actually for a brief time I went to highs Schools outside the US where that was still done. That was controlled, specified and non negotiable. No one fought with you. You would be expelled and not allowed to come back until you submitted yourself to it.Your parents would make sure you came back for it too because it was that or no school again.

      that kind of flipping you backwards and tossing you to the front of the class would not be tolerated even there.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Actually for a brief time I went to highs Schools outside the US where that was still done. That was controlled, specified and non negotiable. No one fought with you. You would be expelled and not allowed to come back until you submitted yourself to it.Your parents would make sure you came back for it too because it was that or no school again.

        that kind of flipping you backwards and tossing you to the front of the class would not be tolerated even there.
        Nor would it have flown in the school I went to - although paddling did happen - and was used as a last resort with problematic kids.

        Like I said - I agree she needed to be bitch slapped - but THAT was NOT a bitch slap.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
          The confrontation started just after 10:30 a.m. when a female student repeatedly refused requests by her teacher and assistant principal to put away her cell phone during class.

          That's when the administrator called in Deputy Fields.
          ...

          "If she had not disrupted the school, and disrupted that class, we would not be standing here today," said (Sheriff Leon) Lott. "So it started with her and ended with my deputy, and I'm going to deal with what my deputy did."
          Students describe what lead up to S.C. classroom incident - CBS News


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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Secondly - we have to stop the militarization of our police forces.
      ^^^^^^^^
      This exactly. The police in many instances are acting like they're fighting the enemy overseas and they have absolute power to use whatever amount of force that they want to. This isn't a police state the last time I heard and anyone who thinks this cop was in line and it's ok for cops to carry out their duties in this manner and condones this behavior is asking for a police state.
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      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        anyone who thinks this cop was in line and it's ok for cops to carry out their duties in this manner and condones this behavior is asking for a police state.
        What do you expect to happen when politicians and officials run election campaigns on "getting tough on crime". People actually vote for this kind of behaviou right up until they find themselves on the receiving end of it. Then they're all "what happened?"

        Rough rule of thumb - if all a "leader" has to offer is protecting you from baddies, don't vote for them.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

          What do you expect to happen when politicians and officials run election campaigns on "getting tough on crime". People actually vote for this kind of behaviou right up until they find themselves on the receiving end of it. Then they're all "what happened?"

          Rough rule of thumb - if all a "leader" has to offer is protecting you from baddies, don't vote for them.
          Well, getting tough on crime doesn't mean wanton excessive brutality. Getting tough on crime means going after real criminals and arresting them and obtaining enough evidence to keep them in prison. There is no implication that "getting tough" means to carry out their duties in a needlessly violent manner.

          ... I've never voted for a candidate because of their stance on crime and I would take into consideration any candidate who promises to demilitarize the police forces and make laws that hold cops who use excessive brutality while doing their jobs accountable in a court of law for their crimes against citizens.

          This case is not "getting tough on crime." It's pure police brutality.

          "The administrator tried to get her to move and pleaded with her to get out of her seat," Robinson told WLTX. "She said she really hadn't done anything wrong. She said she took her phone out, but it was only for a quick second, you know, please, she was begging, apologetic."


          Robinson said he pulled out his phone because he thought something was going to happen "that everyone else needs to see."


          Lott said there have been school resource officers in the county ever since he has been sheriff for the last 19 years. He said the deputies have to receive more training and certification.


          Many districts across the country put officers in schools after teenagers massacred fellow students at Columbine High School in Colorado in 1999. Schools now routinely summon police to discipline students, experts say.


          "Kids are not criminals, by the way. When they won't get up, when they won't put up the phone, they're silly, disobedient kids — not criminals," said John Whitehead, founder of the Rutherford Institute, a nonprofit civil liberties and human rights organization.


          The National Association of School Resource Officers recommends that schools and police agree to prohibit officers "from becoming involved in formal school discipline situations that are the responsibility of school administrators."

          http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/s...rrest-34786058
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          • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            Well, getting tough on crime doesn't mean wanton excessive brutality. Getting tough on crime means going after real criminals and arresting them and obtaining enough evidence to keep them in prison.
            That's how it's interpreted by a fearful population, but a police state is where it inevitably ends up.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

              That's how it's interpreted by a fearful population, but a police state is where it inevitably ends up.
              I disagree that our population is largely fearful or that getting tough on crime implies that police brutality is in any way acceptable. The vast majority of Americans go through their day without thinking much about crime, unless they're criminals, of course. I am not in the least bit fearful and I live in a county where I've never seen or heard of police brutality of this nature. And I do expect that law enforcement doesn't turn it's head and look the other way when crimes are being committed. I expect them to do what cops do .. investigate, gather evidence, arrest and use force when their lives are in danger and they have no other alternative.

              EDIT: The term "tough on crime" here was more about stopping the revolving door justice and imposing tougher sentences for career criminals. It has never meant condoning police brutality.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Also - I believe the officer needs to be fired -- but I don't think there should be a lawsuit, because too many times people aggravate situations like this and then get rich off of it. What does that tell the idiot who misbehaved in the first place?

    Fire the cop and tell the family, no money - if the kid was not a problem in the first place, she'd not have attracted more problems. Maybe if she did get "reimbursed" for her behavior it would be time for the other student's parents to sue that family out of all winnings for having their kid disrupting their classroom.
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  • Profile picture of the author rhondaklewis
    I wonder what if anything will happen to the kids that took the videos since there wasn't suppose to be any cellphones in the class room.

    I see the girls hand go up. Can't tell if she put it up or the cop but it definitely was not a punch. Try and throw a punch sitting down like she was and you'll see how weak that would be. Not that it matters. There was no call for violence.
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  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    (shrug)...woulda never happened had the girl used the words "Yes Sir" and done exactly as she was told, the first time she was told.

    I don't feel one bit sorry for her.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

      (shrug)...woulda never happened had the girl used the words "Yes Sir" and done exactly as she was told, the first time she was told.

      I don't feel one bit sorry for her.
      Oh brother, you stepped in a hornets nest
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      • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Oh brother, you stepped in a hornets nest
        yes.....yes...its my thing. It's what I do.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Oh brother, you stepped in a hornets nest
        meh (just for you) Not really. he's pretty much the same place he has always been in previous discussions. Only time he moves is in a hasty retreat when his idealogies are debunked.

        The circle is almost complete. just a couple more names to go
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          The circle is almost complete. just a couple more names to go
          Does this have XXX connotations
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Well, getting tough on crime doesn't mean wanton excessive brutality. Getting tough on crime means going after real criminals and arresting them and obtaining enough evidence to keep them in prison.
            I am NOT talking about this officer because I think he was way out of line.

            However, crime doesn't start with a murder or an armed robbery. It starts with a lack of respect for the rights of others which includes lack of respect for authority of teachers and cops and store owners, etc.

            If we want to "get tough" on crime I think you have to start with young kids - teach them where the lines are, what lines not to cross. You don't say "I'm proud of my kid for standing up to a cop" - or you'll be back in a courtroom with that same kid a few months or years from now.

            It takes a special person to be a police officer who can take rudeness and resistance from a teen - who can be hit by a kid and not have a flash of anger - who has the patience to work with a teen who has no respect for rules or authority. If someone has that sort of personality - they can get better jobs than being a school cop.

            It's sad we need police in schools to protect students - we shouldn't need them to discipline students. If teachers and principals can't control students - the system needs to be fixed.

            I was taught - as were my kids - that if a cop told you to do something - or to stop doing something - you obeyed instantly. If you didn't agree you would have a chance to talk later. You did not argue or resist or ignore a voice of authority. A teacher - or a cop - might be good or bad, nice or rude - didn't matter. If they issued an order or request to you - you did not talk back or fight them. The goal of teaching that behavior was to keep my sons safe - keep them out of trouble - keep their "records" clean.

            Edit: I don't think anyone here is excusing this cop - but there is another problem when students feel they don't have to listen to those in charge. I have not seen a single article or news story where someone said this cop was correct - everything I read denounces the force used. How hard would it be to grab the chair/desk and pull it - girl and all - from the room into the hall? Would have been much smarter even if she was trying to hit him. The guy lost his temper - really stupid.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              However, crime doesn't start with a murder or an armed robbery. It starts with a lack of respect for the of respect for authority of teachers and cops.
              Then call me a criminal. I respect no one who hasn't shown me that they deserve respect. No one.

              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              I was taught - as were my kids - that if a cop told you to do something - or to stop doing something - you obeyed instantly. If you didn't agree you would have a chance to talk later. You did not argue or resist or ignore a voice of authority. A teacher - or a cop - might be good or bad, nice or rude - didn't matter. If they issued an order or request to you - you did not talk back or fight them. The goal of teaching that behavior was to keep my sons safe - keep them out of trouble - keep their "records" clean.
              I taught my kids the same, although when a teacher was out of line, I called them and let them know immediately. They work for me and other citizens. I don't work for them. I only taught them to obey cops to keep them from getting shot. I didn't raise any criminals, but I also did not raise blindly obedient sheep, nor did my mother.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    If sliding the desk into the hallway would not have worked, there are simple submission holds the officer should know how to implement.

    It's not good at all that his nick name is already Officer Slam. He should be fired.

    As far as a civil law suit goes, I think the court would hold that she was some percentage
    responsible and that her damages are negligible. Should not be a big money, if at all.

    I think modern teachers are hamstrung in these situations, and the teacher did as instructed
    as far as going through the procedures they are supposed to go through these days.

    Something is certainly wrong with that girl's behavior and attitude of disrespect.

    Somewhere people got way off track with what they think are their rights or entitlements.
    I remember taking an assertiveness course in the early nineties and this young woman
    was practicing "being assertive" with her boss because he did not give her the day off
    for her birthday. On very short notice.

    Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    But one parent had a slightly different reaction.


    "I saw his face and my first thought was 'Oh my god, that's the same guy,'" said Wendy Johnson, who says her autistic son was in a physical struggle with Fields when he was a freshman.


    Photos she took of her son after the altercation reveal his shirt torn and marks on his arms and shoulder.


    "The people that are supposed to be protecting my children, I've got to worry ... if they're being hurt by those people," she said.

    Deputy Fields has been barred from the school

    Richland County Sheriff to announce whether Deputy Ben Fields will keep job after video of violent arrest - CBS News
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
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    • Profile picture of the author LynnM
      Surprised nobody commented on this article. Not saying it's right or wrong; like others it's conjecture, but it does provide food for thought.

      From the article: "No one's asked why the student was on the phone. Was it an emergency? Was she having a bad day? Was she being just being a teenager and digging in her heels when the teacher got in her face?

      When an administrator and Officer Fields were brought in, students in the class “barely knew what was going on,” The administrator and Officer Fields each asked her to leave multiple times and requested that she cooperate. The young woman said she did not do anything wrong and refused to leave. She remained quietly in her desk as they continued to ask her to leave.

      The student was displaying the classic fear response an introvert would have. She froze. She felt safe in her chair and withdrew into it."
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        What if her "point" was "I want to text and you can't stop me"...?
        Originally Posted by LynnM View Post

        Surprised nobody commented on this article. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it does provide food for thought.

        From the article: "No one's asked why the student was on the phone. Was it an emergency? Was she having a bad day? Was she being just being a teenager and digging in her heels when the teacher got in her face?

        I don't know about that specific school but the high school for the SC county I'm in blocks cell phone reception inside the school.
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by LynnM View Post

        Surprised nobody commented on this article. Not saying it's right or wrong; like others it's conjecture, but it does provide food for thought.

        From the article: "No one's asked why the student was on the phone. Was it an emergency? Was she having a bad day? Was she being just being a teenager and digging in her heels when the teacher got in her face?

        When an administrator and Officer Fields were brought in, students in the class “barely knew what was going on,” The administrator and Officer Fields each asked her to leave multiple times and requested that she cooperate. The young woman said she did not do anything wrong and refused to leave. She remained quietly in her desk as they continued to ask her to leave.

        The student was displaying the classic fear response an introvert would have. She froze. She felt safe in her chair and withdrew into it."
        These are tone-deaf people. If they didn't gain insight from years on the job that they had, they probably never will. That cop's history of overly violent responses to situations suggests that he is afflicted with mental problems and certainly isn't fit to be a law officer.

        To help explain why so many such incidents of police behaving tactlessly and aggressively occur, this article may help: Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

          These are tone-deaf people. If they didn't gain insight from years on the job that they had, they probably never will. That cop's history of overly violent responses situations suggests that he is afflicted with mental problems and certainly isn't fit to be a law officer.

          To help explain why so many such incidents of police behaving tactlessly and aggressively occur, this article may help: Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops
          Well, that explains a lot, but not all.

          A man whose bid to become a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an intelligence test has lost an appeal in his federal lawsuit against the city.
          Some of these men are the type of insecure little shits that get their feelings of power from a badge and a gun, or a hot car, etc. They're probably short and have tiny penises. They overcompensate for their "smallness" and lack of self esteem by the feeling of power they get from bullying people ... even if it's just a school girl. They do not have any business in law enforcement or any job where they have power over others because they use power in an inappropriate manner.
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          • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            Well, that explains a lot, but not all.



            Some of these men are the type of insecure little shits that get their feelings of power from a badge and a gun, or a hot car, etc. They're probably, short, fat and have tiny penises.<snip>
            Or maybe tiny prefrontal cortices in their brains? That cop's profile matches what one might imagine if a psychopath-spectrum individual became a police officer.
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        • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
          Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

          These are tone-deaf people. If they didn't gain insight from years on the job that they had, they probably never will. That cop's history of overly violent responses to situations suggests that he is afflicted with mental problems and certainly isn't fit to be a law officer.

          To help explain why so many such incidents of police behaving tactlessly and aggressively occur, this article may help: Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops
          With respect to intelligence alone, that's just weird reasoning to me. When I was a courier, the manager told me I was overqualified, but most of the people he hired who were overqualified did the best job.

          Also, it seems a police force would want people with high IQs to become the leaders, or in specialty positions, or just good at what they do.

          And, I always thought employment testing had to be statistically valid as a predictor of job related
          performance. The US Supreme court in Griggs v Duke Power ruled that the Wonderlic intelligence test was not a valid predictor of success for the position Griggs was applying for with the Duke Power company.

          If I understand the article correctly, he's been a prison guard since 1996. 19 years to get bored and leave that job.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            history of overly violent responses
            Except the history in reality doesn't match up to comments like yours. One incident some charges were dropped by the court and this man was found not guilty of the other charges. Can't count that one unless you decide your judgement is above the law.

            Second incident - don't know the outcome as it hasn't happened yet. BUT - what I've read says this man is one of TEN charged in the incident. The suit apparently lists anyone at the school who could be named. Does that mean there are 9 other 'overly violent' people at the school....or that the person is suing everyone? I'm not defending him - never have. He was wrong - but he was wrong in the real story that took place.

            COP STORY: That's from 2000 and the problems police forces are facing now is quite the opposite.

            My son has frequent contact with various police agencies and the complaint TODAY is that recruiting smart new people is almost impossible. They've lowered standards to fill positions.

            The smarter officers - on all levels - are looking for employment in the private sector. The smart ones are getting out due to political correctness. They see increased risk due to pressure not to "shoot first" if they feel at risk. One who left the Cinci force said "if you shoot second, you could be dead first".
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

          To help explain why so many such incidents of police behaving tactlessly and aggressively occur, this article may help: Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops
          Policemen are tribal, like fans of sports teams, or soldiers.

          I can understand why people with similar IQs wouldn't be the best thing. A person with an exceptional IQ may not follow orders as well, or my not get along with the other cops.

          But cops have normal IQs. They aren't dummies. It isn't a simple job.

          But I can see where being a cop for awhile might foster an "Us against them" mentality. They only see the worst in us. Just get jaded.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            ... where being a cop for awhile might foster an "Us against them" mentality. They only see the worst in us. Just just get jaded.
            ... and I can see how a jaded public, tired of police brutality and unarmed citizens getting shot down can develop an us against them mentality. We are seeing the worst of them.

            I use to feel that part of a cop's job was to "serve and protect." A cop would be the LAST person I would call these days for any reason.

            There was a cop who was called to help manage a mentally challenged family member and within two minutes of arriving, shot them dead (after officers who were on the scene first were close to having the situation under control).

            There was a cop who shot a man in a wheelchair armed with a pencil.

            Cops coming in on a small matter or a mistaken address and shooting people's dogs dead.

            Cops killing unarmed teens.

            Cops choking someone and sitting on them (I can't breathe!) for selling single cigarettes.

            Cop violently arresting a girl for daring to talk back to him for a routine traffic stop. She mysteriously died in jail before being able to tell her story in court.

            Cop pulling up to a 12 year old kid with toy gun and within two seconds, decide to blow him away. As the boy lay bleeding, the cops did nothing to administer first aid. Surveillance footage of the incident show the cops standing around for 4 minutes with no attempt to render first aid and when the kid's sister approached, they tackled her to the ground. Amazing that they didn't just get two for the price of one and blow her away too.

            Caroline Small was at a low point in her life. She suffered from PTSD, Dissociative Disorder, and was struggling with drugs and alcohol. These things should have never been a death sentence, but thanks to two Georgia cops, they were. She was unarmed and her vehicle couldn't move more than an inch or two when she was massacred. “Where did you hit her?” Simpson asks, according to a GBI transcript. “I hit her right in the face,” Sasser says. “I watched the bridge of her nose…I pulled the trigger and I watched it hit her at the same time I think I fired,” Simpson says.

            Cop throwing a teenage girl around a room like a ragdoll for a minor school misbehavior.

            I could go on and on for pages, but the public has just as much reason to distrust cops as cops have to distrust us ... maybe more ... because there are the ones who get away with this crap ... shielded by the law in most cases and armed to the teeth ... and militarized to the hilt.

            Here's 15 more reasons not to trust cops

            http://www.commondreams.org/views/20...unarmed-people
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            • Profile picture of the author sconer
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              I use to feel that part of a cop's job was to "serve and protect." A cop would be the LAST person I would call these days for any reason.
              Oh stop, your hyperbole is not serving anyone.


              At your age you know as well as anyone that things are getting better, not worse. 30 years ago no one would ever expect someone to be able to fight lawful orders without being on the receiving end of a baton strike. Show me a cop in the 70's who didn't carry a black jack.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by sconer View Post

                Oh stop, your hyperbole is not serving anyone.
                Don't like my opinions, don't read them, but you won't tell me when to post or what to post.
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                • Profile picture of the author sconer
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  Don't like my opinions, don't read them, but you won't tell me when to post or what to post.
                  It's not your opinion, it's an outright lie.


                  "A cop would be the LAST person I would call these days for any reason."
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by sconer View Post

                    It's not your opinion, it's an outright lie.


                    "A cop would be the LAST person I would call these days for any reason."
                    Go away HN. Sooner or later the mods will be onto this new user name you've created and you'll be banned just like all the other ones you've created.
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                    • Profile picture of the author sconer
                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                      Go away HN. Sooner or later the mods will be onto this new user name you've created and you'll be banned just like all the other ones you've created.
                      I have no idea what you are talking about. If you think I am someone else who has been banned, then by all means, report me.

                      I assume this post of yours is just a way to call attention away from the fact that I exposed you making an outright lie during yet another one of your hysterical posts.
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                      • Profile picture of the author rhondaklewis
                        Originally Posted by sconer View Post

                        I have no idea what you are talking about. If you think I am someone else who has been banned, then by all means, report me.

                        I assume this post of yours is just a way to call attention away from the fact that I exposed you making an outright lie during yet another one of your hysterical posts.
                        Can you point out the lie? I don't see it.
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                        • Profile picture of the author sconer
                          Originally Posted by rhondaklewis View Post

                          Can you point out the lie? I don't see it.
                          I quoted it twice, you see it just fine...
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by rhondaklewis View Post

                          Can you point out the lie? I don't see it.
                          Dialog with the forum troll is really pointless. This is just his newest user name after all the others have been banned.
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                          • Profile picture of the author sconer
                            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                            Dialog with the forum troll is really pointless. This is just his newest user name after all the others have been banned.
                            And this is yet another lie.
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                            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by sconer View Post

                              And this is yet another lie.
                              You're so easy to spot HN. You don't change your behavior with each new user name and that is precisely why you continue to get banned. You do seem to know me, or at least think you do, for someone who just signed up very recently. Hmmmm .... But that's ok. Turned it over to the mods to sort out.
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                              • Profile picture of the author sconer
                                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                You're so easy to spot HN. You don't change your behavior with each new user name and that is precisely why you continue to get banned. You do seem to know me, or at least think you do, for someone who just signed up very recently. Hmmmm .... But that's ok. Turned it over to the mods to sort out.
                                At this point I am going to contact that forum administrations as well. The fact that you continually lie and say I am someone else who has been banned is becoming harassment.

                                Instead of imagining stories, you should be attempting to defend the lie you told about a cop being the LAST person you would call for any reason.
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                                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by sconer View Post

                                  At this point I am going to contact that forum administrations as well. The fact that you continually lie and say I am someone else who has been banned is becoming harassment.

                                  Instead of imagining stories, you should be attempting to defend the lie you told about a cop being the LAST person you would call for any reason.
                                  I don't have to defend anything. You just signed up. You don't me from Adam ... or wait .. do you. You just admitted to knowing me well.

                                  So ... I'm fascinated. Tell me about me.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author sconer
                                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                    I don't have to defend anything. You just signed up. You don't me from Adam ... or wait .. do you. You just admitted to knowing me well.

                                    So ... I'm fascinated. Tell me about me.
                                    I don't need to know you and I never admitted to knowing you well (yet another lie), I am discussing something that you posted, something that you continue to ignore because you know how wrong you are.

                                    You said, and I quote: "A cop would be the LAST person I would call these days for any reason."


                                    I'm sure if you heard a window break on the opposite side of your house and someone coming in, the police would be the last person you would call.
                                    I'm sure if you were mugged, you wouldn't call the police.
                                    I'm sure if your car was stolen, you wouldn't call the police.
                                    I'm sure if you saw someone breaking into your neighbor's house, you wouldn't call the police.
                                    I'm sure if you saw a kid being abducted, you wouldn't call the police.
                                    I'm sure if you saw ad infinitum crimes being committed, you wouldn't call the police

                                    Right, RIGHT?

                                    No, the truth is that you will still call the police in all the normal situations that everyone else does, and your statement about the police being the LAST person you would call for any reason was nothing more than a blatant lie, meaningless propaganda in yet another hysterical anti-police post.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                      Banned
                                      Originally Posted by sconer View Post

                                      I don't need to know you and I never admitted to knowing you well (yet another lie)
                                      Quote:
                                      Originally Posted by rhondaklewis
                                      So she lied about A cop being the last person she would call? You know her that well?

                                      Originally Posted by sconer View Post

                                      Yes, I do, and so do you.

                                      The fact that you would even argue this means that you would rather be dishonest to protect a friend and a "side" of an argument than be an honest and unbiased person.

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                                      • Profile picture of the author sconer
                                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                        Quote:
                                        Originally Posted by rhondaklewis
                                        So she lied about A cop being the last person she would call? You know her that well?




                                        Yes, I know you (and everyone else in the world) well enough to know that a cop would NOT be the last person you would call in hundreds of situations.

                                        I was very clear about that.

                                        But you can lie again and act as if I was saying that I know you personally, lying is right up your alley, apparently.

                                        And again, you completely ignored the entire rest of my post in which I proved you lied with your statement. It must be hard not having a leg to stand on and always having to pick one little thing out of my post to try and counter.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                          Banned
                                          Originally Posted by sconer View Post

                                          Yes, I know you (and everyone else in the world)

                                          And again, you completely ignored the entire rest of my post in which I proved you lied with your statement. It must be hard not having a leg to stand on and always having to pick one little thing out of my post to try and counter.
                                          ... and I will continue to ignore your posts other than to get to the bottom of your interest in following me and harassing me.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author sconer
                                            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                            ... and I will continue to ignore your posts other than to get to the bottom of your interest in following me and harassing me.
                                            I haven't followed or harassed you. I simply pointed out a post in which you made a blatant lie. Instead of you replying with a simple answer, such as "Ok, I exaggerated by saying that" which would have ended it right there, you instead turned it into a multipage debacle of you making more lies and me pointing them out.
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                                            • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                                              Originally Posted by sconer View Post

                                              I haven't followed or harassed you. I simply pointed out a post in which you made a blatant lie. Instead of you replying with a simple answer, such as "Ok, I exaggerated by saying that" which would have ended it right there, you instead turned it into a multipage debacle of you making more lies and me pointing them out.
                                              You ARE harrassing her, in addition to accusing her of lying when she made a statement about whether or not she would do something (which is absurd). The person who's lying (by your standards) is you, because you can't possibly know her well enough to know what she (or anyone here) would or wouldn't do in a given situation.
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                                            • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
                                              Originally Posted by sconer View Post

                                              I haven't followed or harassed you. I simply pointed out a post in which you made a blatant lie. Instead of you replying with a simple answer, such as "Ok, I exaggerated by saying that" which would have ended it right there, you instead turned it into a multipage debacle of you making more lies and me pointing them out.
                                              Did your feelings get hurt when people make cops accountable for their actions? Do you believe that responsible police officers appreciate thugs in uniforms among their ranks? Obviously not, or Ben Fields would not have been fired by the sheriff. There may be nothing wrong with being a police groupie or whatever you are (cop mags under your pillow?), but you come across as a big-time a-hole in your attacks against sbucciarel
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                                              • Profile picture of the author discrat
                                                Lets see what new username HN will use in a few days
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                                                Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

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                                                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                  Doran -

                                                  Earlier you mentioned schools can't ban phones - but that's what they do here.

                                                  You can have your phone but you can not have it turned on during school hours. In class, if you pull out your phone OUT, it will be taken away from you and returned at the end of the day....this is for a FIRST offense.

                                                  If you refuse to surrender your phone - or if there is a second phone incident - parents/guardians are called to pick up the phone and the student as suspension is automatic until behavioral problem is discussed and resolved.

                                                  The policy is clear - the rules are strictly enforced and punishment is the same for everyone - not surprisingly, they have few problems.
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                                                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                    The policy is clear - the rules are strictly enforced and punishment is the same for everyone - not surprisingly, they have few problems.

                                                    And, not surprisingly, a policy that entitlement minded special interest groups are NOT in favor of.








                                                    Joe Mobley
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                                    Banned
                                                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                    Earlier you mentioned schools can't ban phones - but that's what they do here.
                                                    Some schools do not ban cellphones and in fact, use them for educational purposes in class. Obviously, the class in question did not have a cellphone ban, unless there was massive civil disobedience going on there. I'll bet most of the kids had cellphnes in that class. We already know that several of them took video.

                                                    Recently, however, the acceptance of these devices has been growing. Beginning in March, New York City, the largest school district in the country with 1.1 million students, will reverse its long standing ban on cell phones in schools.

                                                    The ban, which was implemented by the Bloomberg administration, went into effect in 2006, but Mayor Bill De Blasio championed the policy change, saying that he thought it was important for parents to be able to easily contact their kids.


                                                    Will more districts around the country follow? Liz Kolb, an assistant professor at the University of Michigan School of Education and author of Toys to Tools: Connecting Student Cell Phones to Education, says its already happening. According to Kolb, close to 70 percent of schools that had cell phone bans in place five years ago are reversing their policies.


                                                    "First it was a very slow domino fall, and now we're seeing more of a tidal wave," Kolb explains. "Part of it is because it's hard to fight the tidal wave and there's so many students with cell phones. The second part is that they're really seeing them as a learning tool, not just a toy for entertainment, and they're seeing that they can be cost effective for the schools instead of having to purchase technology for students."
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                      I had a 57 year old employee refuse to put her cell phone on vibrate while working as a
                                                      desk clerk.
                                                      That would be an ex-employee to me. One of my pet peeves as a customer is to try to deal with a clerk or service person who is on the phone while waiting on me.

                                                      It's a store - or gas station - or food outlet - that I don't return to again. Not because of "my feelings" but because I consider it a poorly managed business.
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                                                      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                                                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                        That would be an ex-employee to me. One of my pet peeves as a customer is to try to deal with a clerk or service person who is on the phone while waiting on me.

                                                        It's a store - or gas station - or food outlet - that I don't return to again. Not because of "my feelings" but because I consider it a poorly managed business.
                                                        She was hard to get rid of because, mainly, the owner did not think anybody else would hire her and he worried about how she would get by. Unusual because he's fairly tough minded. She had worked here for about 3 years before I started managing. I heard the "They did not do that" line way too much. I was finally able to do the cut the hours thing and she now has a full-time job perfect for her to do not much of anything. And sleep off her hangovers. LOL

                                                        Another factor is that the owner does not like the expense of paying unemployment benefits as he had to do for a jerk who managed for a while before me.
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                                                        • Profile picture of the author yukon
                                                          Banned
                                                          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                                                          She was hard to get rid of because, mainly, the owner did not think anybody else would hire her and he worried about how she would get by.

                                                          Apparently she didn't care about losing her job so why would anyone else?


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                                                          • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                                                            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                                                            Apparently she didn't care about losing her job so why would anyone else?
                                                            "Mediocre help is hard to find."

                                                            Not a strong labor pool here at the time.

                                                            I've since learned where not to get employees from. Yep, I said where not...
                                                            If they were referred by certain people, or they work at certain places in this
                                                            small town and are looking for extra work - it's a no.

                                                            Help wanted sign in the window is my best recruiting tool.

                                                            I cannot stress enough how important it is to have employees who fit.
                                                            No drama queens or kings, etc.

                                                            --LOL on Jerry Maguire

                                                            Here's a ton of iconic movie quotes in one place:

                                                            http://www.youtube.com/playlist?anno...id=l1B1_jQnlFk
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                                                • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                                                  Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                                  Lets see what new username HN will use in a few days
                                                  Who is this HN?






                                                  LOL
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                                                • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                                                  Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                                  Lets see what new username HN will use in a few days
                                                  ROFL. He/she/it has just been banned again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Parents need to start being held accountable. Something like if the teacher, principal and security all feel there's an issue with the student, security gives the student a ticket that fines the parent $100 and 5 hours of community service.

    And each time the problem happens again, the student gets another ticket with the parent responsible for the fine and community service. Let her stay in class and play with her phone. Each time she does it will cost her parent(s) $100 and 5 hours of community service.

    Security can document each time by videoing it. If the parent doesn't pay the fine or do the service, then it's jail time for the parent.

    It's one thing for a kid not to behave. It's another for that student to interfere with the education of others.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      It's one thing for a kid not to behave. It's another for that student to interfere with the education of others.
      Right .. how is a kid looking at their cellphone interfering with other's education? lol. Give me a break. Apparently, every kid in that classroom had a cellphone since all the video footage came from those students. Good for them for playing with their phones at the appropriate time.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Right .. how is a kid looking at their cellphone interfering with other's education? lol. Give me a break. Apparently, every kid in that classroom had a cellphone since all the video footage came from those students. Good for them for playing with their phones at the appropriate time.
        How? By causing a scene when asked to put it away. Do you have any proof the other kids were asked to put their phones away at that time? Of course, there would be exceptions in extreme situations.

        If you need a break, take one, but I'm not here to give breaks away for free.

        BTW, did you ever come up with a possible solution of your own or are you just going to complain about the solutions others provide?
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          How? By causing a scene when asked to put it away. Do you have any proof the other kids were asked to put their phones away at that time? Of course, there would be exceptions in extreme situations.

          If you need a break, take one, but I'm not here to give breaks away for free.

          BTW, did you ever come up with a possible solution of your own or are you just going to complain about the solutions others provide?
          Why would I have proof that other kids were asked to put their cellphones away? I didn't claim that they were. Why would I come up with a possible solution? I'm not paid to do so. In my schools, school administration took care of problem kids and discipline. They are paid to do that. They didn't pawn their jobs off on out of control, aggressive cops. Any two men in that school could have removed her, desk and all, from that classroom, and done so without laying a hand on her, and then expelled her.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Parents need to start being held accountable. Something like if the teacher, principal and security all feel there's an issue with the student, security gives the student a ticket that fines the parent $100 and 5 hours of community service.

      And each time the problem happens again, the student gets another ticket with the parent responsible for the fine and community service. Let her stay in class and play with her phone. Each time she does it will cost her parent(s) $100 and 5 hours of community service.

      It's one thing for a kid not to behave. It's another for that student to interfere with the education of others.


      When a student is in school the school is responsible for the student, it's out of parents control once a student enters a school.

      If a student doesn't want to follow the school rules, after school detention 3 times, expelled on the 4th incident. After being expelled it's all between the student, parents & DSS since going to school is required by law.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        When a student is in school the school is responsible for the student, it's out of parents control once a student enters a school.

        If a student doesn't want to follow the school rules, after school detention 3 times, expelled on the 4th incident. After being expelled it's all between the student, parents & DSS since going to school is required by law.
        You never met my Grandmother. Let me just say "ping pong paddle" and my side of the story didn't matter. Not to mention, it's the parents and not the school that give the kids their phones. I promise you, if I had an issue with my phone at school, my Grandma would have taken it away in an instant. End of problem.

        I have a very strong feeling that the best behaved students have to deal with parents at home. And parents are ALWAYS responsible for the actions of their kids.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        When a student is in school the school is responsible for the student, it's out of parents control once a student enters a school.

        If a student doesn't want to follow the school rules, after school detention 3 times, expelled on the 4th incident. After being expelled it's all between the student, parents & DSS since going to school is required by law.

        I think the point is that discipline begins at home. Kids should be taught to respect authority from the time they're very young. It's not only for disciplinary reasons either, but sometimes for their own safety and the safety of others.

        This kid didn't do what she was told and now we're seeing the consequences.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

          I think the point is that discipline begins at home. Kids should be taught to respect authority from the time they're very young. It's not only for disciplinary reasons either, but sometimes for their own safety and the safety of others.

          This kid didn't do what she was told and now we're seeing the consequences.

          Anyone with kids knows kids do whatever they want when a parent isn't around (school).

          You can do your best to raise a kid but there's no guarantees in life, the kid makes their own decisions & they're usually wrong decisions sooner or later. That's life, everyone has been there done that (growing up).

          Assault isn't an option as the cop found out. Technically the cop should be charged for child abuse.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Watching the Sheriff talking about this incident on the news now.
      The cop has been terminated. As the sheriff said throwing the student across the room is not how he should of handled it or is it how they where trained to handle those types of situations.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    Those here on a rant against that Cop are a big minority, at least from what I've seen. Almost every post, article and comment that I've read elsewhere has said that although the Cop may have been a bit excessive, he still had the right to take action because the girl was in the wrong.

    Even the Principal and Teacher, who were both present and witnessed the entire thing, thought that he handled it appropriately.

    Officer to be fired in South Carolina classroom altercation: MSNBC

    Personally, I don't want to ever see a minor injured, but if they won't comply with the rules that ALL students are required to obey, and blatantly refuse to obey direct commands from two school officials and a Police Officer, they've brought it upon themselves.

    Now this kid's Attorney has her all bandaged up and in an arm sling. The Sheriff himself said she didn't appear to have anything more than a couple bumps and bruises, as well as a bit of rug burn - all of which she brought upon herself.

    The responsibility of this entire situation falls on that student. If she does what she's supposed to do then none of this happens.

    I think it's a shame that this guy is going to lose his job because of this.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

      The responsibility of this entire situation falls on that student. If she does what she's supposed to do then none of this happens.

      I think it's a shame that this guy is going to lose his job because of this.
      Again, you are expecting a teenager to be more level-headed and responsible than a trained law enforcement officer. He is the "victim" of a disobedient teen ... why? Because he went against his training and handled the situation out of anger and aggression instead of doing what he was trained to do.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Again, you are expecting a teenager to be more level-headed and responsible than a trained law enforcement officer. He is the "victim" of a disobedient teen ... why? Because he went against his training and handled the situation out of anger and aggression instead of doing what he was trained to do.
        That's crap. She's a disrespectful kid who refused to obey authority 3 different times from 3 different people that had authority over her. Yes, the Officer is responsible for his actions, but she's 16 years old and is responsible for her actions, too. She's only one year away from being potentially tried as an adult for many crimes.

        By the way, the student and her friend are still being charged.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

          By the way, the student and her friend are still being charged.
          Thats great news because more people are likely to get fired if the friend is prosecuted. She got arrested just for objecting to the brutality. Barring some new revelation no one has scene she'll be a rockstar and probably have grounds for her own lawsuit.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

      Those here on a rant against that Cop are a big minority, at least from what I've seen.
      LOl...good old joe...squinting as he reads the news. If they are in the minority then why is the cop gone - asta la vista baby - fired by his own sherrif's office? typical denialist. twitter blows up in outrage, practically every news cast condemns his action but I um barely see anything - these guys are in the minority.....um not anymore...those days are gone. Happy days.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        LOl...good old joe...squinting as he reads the news. If they are in the minority then why is the cop gone - asta la vista baby - fired by his own sherrif's office? typical denialist. twitter blows up in outrage, practically every news cast condemns his action but I um barely see anything - these guys are in the minority.....um not anymore...those days are gone. Happy days.
        Mikey! You're back!

        Actually, the Cop was fired because he has another incident similar to this that's still pending. He has a third, too, but that was squashed. He was fired because he has another case pending similar to those, but that in no way makes him guilty. The guy also had a 10+ year record of good service.

        The Sheriff's department isn't pressing charges against him because they don't feel that it was, pardon the pun, "warranted". It's been turned over to the FBI now and they can file charges or not.

        The charges against the girl (and her friend) still stand.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

          The charges against the girl (and her friend) still stand.
          Since when is verbally objecting to police brutality a crime? Can't wait to see how that one turns out in regards to the arrest of the kid who raised an objection to what was happening in that classroom.
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          • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            Since when is verbally objecting to police brutality a crime? Can't wait to see how that one turns out in regards to the arrest of the kid who raised an objection to what was happening in that classroom.
            Disrupting class is a misdemeanor in that location. She already did that the moment she refused to obey the teacher. She then refused a direct command from a Police Officer. Like it or not, she was required BY LAW to do as she was told. Again, she refused.

            At no time before the Officer took action did she "object to Police brutality".
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

              Disrupting class is a misdemeanor in that location. She already did that the moment she refused to obey the teacher. She then refused a direct command from a Police Officer. Like it or not, she was required BY LAW to do as she was told. Again, she refused.

              At no time before the Officer took action did she "object to Police brutality".
              Aw shucks. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but your squinting has finally got the best of you .Suzanne was referring to the second student. claiming objecting while all that was already going on (already disrupting the class) was disrupting the class is a load of huueey.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

              Disrupting class is a misdemeanor in that location. She already did that the moment she refused to obey the teacher. She then refused a direct command from a Police Officer. Like it or not, she was required BY LAW to do as she was told. Again, she refused.

              At no time before the Officer took action did she "object to Police brutality".
              I guess you misread my question. In regards to the student who verbally objected to police brutality being committed in this classroom, and was arrested, (which was the second student to be arrested), since when is objecting to police brutality a crime?
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

          The guy also had a 10+ year record of good service.

          I'd have to see video to believe it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

          Actually, the Cop was fired because he has another incident similar to this that's still pending. He has a third, too, but that was squashed. He was fired because he has another case pending similar to those, but that in no way makes him guilty. The guy also had a 10+ year record of good service.

          The Sheriff's department isn't pressing charges against him because they don't feel that it was, pardon the pun, "warranted". It's been turned over to the FBI now and they can file charges or not.

          The charges against the girl (and her friend) still stand.
          Impressive you managed to keep up on the news like all of us already have even while squinting hard. I've highlighted the lead happy moment of the day for you though
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          • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Impressive you managed to keep up on the news like all of us already have even while squinting hard. I've highlighted the lead happy moment of the day for you though
            Yeah, the sheer brilliance of someone like myself has to be amazing to someone as simple minded as you, Mikey. Ain't that right?

            I couldn't help but notice the number of infractions you've received. Seven was it? All for insulting other members, right? Man, you are consistent. Most idiots are, though, so don't go thinking that you're anything special.

            Apparently I'm not the only person you've singled out in the past. But that's okay. You see, I can have a civil conversation with someone and ultimately "agree to disagree". No problemo.

            On the other hand, there are people like yourself, Mikey.

            Heavy sigh...
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

              Yeah, the sheer brilliance of someone like myself has to be amazing to someone as simple minded as you, Mikey. Ain't that right?

              Heavy sigh...
              Joe your entire post was nothing but an ad hom. Ease up on the juice and please do not send me PMs with titles indicating you are a mod. Unless you are one I am quite sure pretending to be one is not within the rules. This kind of attacking is precisely why PN said what he said earlier to you and he was on target. We have all made observations in this thread about how people see violence. You are the only one trying to be macho with this person is hiding or not. Pipe it down and stay on the subject..
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              • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Joe your entire post was nothing but an ad hom. Ease up on the juice and please do not send me PMs with titles indicating you are a mod. Unless you are one I am quite sure pretending to be one is not within the rules. This kind of attacking is precisely why PN said what he said earlier to you and he was on target. We have all made observations in this thread about how people see violence. You are the only one trying to be macho with this person is hiding or not. Pipe it down and stay on the subject..
                I never sent you a PM, or at least I never intended to. That was supposed to go to the Mods. You're the jerk that started this. For some reason you initially chose to single me out - even after I told you that you had me confused with someone else.

                Whatever, Mikey.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Obviously at least 2 other students also had phones out in classroom since they have two videos. My bet is, most of the kids had their phones out.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Not looking good for the cop, looks premeditated.

    [source]

    When the administrator called in the deputy, the deputy first asked another student in the classroom to move a desk out of the way, Robinson said.

    "To me that was a sign of, he could already tell what he was about to do," Robinson said.






    Tony Robinson Jr., a student who shot a video from the classroom, said the girl apparently had her phone out while the class was doing a computer assignment.
    Lol, he also had to have his phone out in order to get the video. Why didn't he get in trouble?
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Had to be more than a phone out for a couple of seconds for the teacher to get the administrator and then for the administrator to get the cop. Granted that's an assumption on my part as I've not followed all the news after the OP and the first local news video, but it seems a logical conclusion.

    I used to work with kids in a juvenile diversion program and a lot of situations should/could be diffused.
    A 6'4" teacher who is hall monitor for the day should realize that if he towers over a tough street kid
    and taps him with a pencil in the chest, it might make things worse. The kid was a little late for class
    is all.

    I agree with Tim and Thom and their ideas for a non-physical way to handle it. I did that when I was a doorman at a bar. The second you touch, just a touch, a person in a bar who is causing problems, it is
    usually game on. It did usually work - at least at the bar I worked at - to give them a choice to leave on their own, or with a Sheriff. Same when I give unruly and/or drunk hotel guests five minutes to shape up, or deal with the local law enforcement. If they are in a group, I have a 100% "cure" rate talking to the leader of the group and getting them to handle the one causing trouble.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Banned
    It is about time that the UN gets a standing army and restore law and order in the US of A.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

      It is about time that the UN gets a standing army and restore law and order in the US of A.
      LOL......I like that
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  • Profile picture of the author dvm3
    Things I learned:
    Girl has zero respect for authority
    Girl’s mom is proud of her disruptive behavior, resisting arrest, and assaulting an officer
    All could have been avoided if girl did as she was told (had multiple chances)
    Don’t refuse an officer’s orders
    Notice how none of the other students were heard yelling something along the lines of “she’s unarmed”, “you can’t do that!”, “WTF”, etc. (hmm… maybe they had no issue with her forced removal?)
    Al Sharpton is on his way to “help”
    Disruptive girl will probably win a lawsuit and/or appear on a reality tv show
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by dvm3 View Post

      Al Sharpton is on his way to "help"
      OK, that was funny.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        OK, that was funny.
        Yeah ... just what they need there ... Sharpton inflaming a situation that is already being handled appropriately. The cop was fired quickly and the FBI is investigating. What more does he want?
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          He's trying to save face - he announced he was speaking at the funeral of a black cop gunned down in New York....and the cop's fiancee said the cop detested Sharpton and everything he stood for. Said he was disgusted with Sharpton's rants and protests against police.

          Sharpton got caught on this one - claimed the cop's father asked him to speak. But the father said Sharpton called HIM and he told Sharpton he was welcome at the funeral but did NOT ask him to speak. Usually people cover up Sharpton's 'misrepresentations' but this time they didn't.

          Sharpton just announced he would not speak at the funeral because he didn't want to inflame tensions....the man has no shame. Only good thing is MSNBC has moved him from a daily show to Sunday morning only.

          I recently read two excellent articles about Sharpton -

          The public life and private doubts of Al Sharpton | The Washington Post

          http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/19/ny...ence.html?_r=0
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          YWhat more does he want?
          Direct deposit.

          Cheers. - Frank
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by dvm3 View Post

      Girl’s mom is proud of her disruptive behavior, resisting arrest, and assaulting an officer
      This has been going around this thread for a couple days now and no one has provided any proof. I think it arises out of the fact that most people do such poor reading they do not realize that TWO girls were arrested. One for not leaving and the other protesting the brutal assault. Mother of the SECOND girl has RIGHTFULLY expressed pride in her child for objecting to the assault on the first girl. Haven't seen anything from the mother of the first so again link please?

      All could have been avoided if girl did as she was told (had multiple chances)

      That excuse (and it is an excuse though some people are trying to claim it isn't) won't fly and thankfully people down here have no say in it - He is fired gone hip hip Hurray

      Notice how none of the other students were heard yelling something along the lines of “she’s unarmed”, “you can’t do that!”, “WTF”, etc. (hmm… maybe they had no issue with her forced removal?)
      Hmm maybe you are not informed. Interviews have already show up in the media with some of the people in the class and some were totally horrified besides the one arrested

      Al Sharpton is on his way to “help”
      Al and to an extant Jesse have overdone it for years. Jesse still has some respect with me ( and most African Americans I know) but Al is considered a joke by many

      Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

      You're the jerk that started this. For some reason you initially chose to single me out - even after I told you that you had me confused with someone else.
      Oh joe move along with the name calling You got into it with PN already pretty much threatening him he would have to say different if he were not "hiding". YOU want to defend vilolence against a minor then people have the right to question your sensibilities. Thats life. The I am innocent routine is busted and no did not mistake. You are arguing just the way I recall with the same peek a bo hide and seek police could handle better but generally they are in the right regardless of anything that you did in other cases things like this have discussed over the years. Edit - as per instruction from mods will just ignore you going forward.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I bet Sharpton makes more money from this case than all the related lawsuits combined.










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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Al Sharpton fail: Tawana Brawley

    Ironically, Bill Cosby comments in the video below from 1987 (0:35 in the video). That is the same time frame (1980s) Cosby is accused of raping multiple women.

    What are the odds?





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  • Profile picture of the author sconer
    I think we should bring back the good ol' days of hickory shampoo.
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  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    (sheesh no sense of humor)

    Suzanne and Mikey,

    Question for you both....so...as if we were watching a replay of events...the teacher says put your phone away...and the girl puts it away.

    ...what happens next?
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

      (sheesh no sense of humor)

      Suzanne and Mikey,

      Question for you both....so...as if we were watching a replay of events...the teacher says put your phone away...and the girl puts it away.

      ...what happens next?

      She gets slammed. You're really in this conversation without knowing anything of the case. the phone was put away.

      Oh and by the way - Names Mike. Its not a big deal to me but if you wish to have an adult conversation and sound like an adult its never a good idea to do the ten year old thing add y to other adults who you disagree with

      tends to make you look like you think like a child (provided you aren't one since I don't know your age)

      Just a tip.
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      • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
        So, not ten years old Mike, are you convinced this girl was 100% compliant and in line and verbally courteous ...she was just attacked for no rational reason whatsoever? Not even a microscopic chance her personal choices influenced the opportunity for a bad result?

        Suzanne, I'd expect him to be able to handle it better than he did. I'd also expect that he shouldn't have to deal with defiant students...it should be a rare thing, not the norm.

        Understand something...I'm not talking about who's ultimately right or wrong, who's the victim and who isn't ...I think you guys are putting everything I say in that context.

        My message is: in everything that happens to us or for us, our own choices, are always a part of the equation that makes the end result. Might be a big or small part, but they're in there. I think it's important that we understand that and teach that to our children.
        I have a 9 year old daughter. she takes after her mom so she should turn out alright
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

          So, not ten years old Mike, are you convinced this girl was 100% compliant and in line and verbally courteous ...she was just attacked for no rational reason whatsoever? Not even a microscopic chance her personal choices influenced the opportunity for a bad result?
          Perhaps you should ask someone else because at this point really I don't know whether you came in on the fourth page and didn't read or have a short attention span. Seriously I really don't know what your issues are. You just asked me the same question in a different way just hours ago I responded by telling you that just about on every page everyone has said the girl should have complied but the issue is the officers action because we are dealing with a child but here you are basically asking the same thing again. Sorry I will not be answering the same thing over and over again. This is it for me on that.

          My message is: in everything that happens to us or for us, our own choices, are always a part of the equation that makes the end result. Might be a big or small part, but they're in there. I think it's important that we understand that and teach that to our children.
          the reason why your message is not really contributing anything is because its like coming into this thread and saying. we should all love our children. Well umm errr thanks. We all knew that now on with discussion. Second thats a life time lesson and in no way means you won't make bad decisions going froward even two three or four decades from now. its not a magic realization that makes all bad decisions go away so that's particularly the reason where at a SCHOOL a minor that is still learning those and other lessons with a still forming mind should not be grabbed around the neck, body slammed backwards where she could get a head injury and tossed like a rag doll because she made the bad decision of trying to keep her cell phone.

          Get that....trying to keep her cell phone
          Not even continuing to talk on a cell phone
          not being disruptive to the class (who sure jolly were using theres when the cop comes in
          a minor trying to keep her cell phone

          She should learn that the consequences for that in a society is getting body slammed - total garbage. That kind of thing distracts from a life lesson not enforces it.

          I have a 9 year old daughter. she takes after her mom so she should turn out alright
          Ummm good luck with the parenting by genetics thing. Especially good luck to her if her dad feels since she takes after her mom she won't make bad decisions. You must be planning quite the sheltered life for her.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

          So, not ten years old Mike, are you convinced this girl was 100% compliant and in line and verbally courteous ...she was just attacked for no rational reason whatsoever? Not even a microscopic chance her personal choices influenced the opportunity for a bad result?
          There is absolutely nothing rational and right about that cop's attack on this girl. I don't care what she did, outside of doing something that had the ability to harm others, there was absolutely nothing that gave that stinking piece of garbage of a cop, a right to do that.

          Anyone who feels that cops should have that kind of authority to viciously attack minors is insane.

          Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

          Suzanne, I'd expect him to be able to handle it better than he did. I'd also expect that he shouldn't have to deal with defiant students...it should be a rare thing, not the norm.
          You don't want to deal with defiant students, then teaching is not the right profession for you. Simple as that. He made that career choice. Don't like kids who don't always tow the line .... get another job. Managing his classroom and discipline is in his job description.

          Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

          My message is: in everything that happens to us or for us, our own choices, are always a part of the equation that makes the end result. Might be a big or small part, but they're in there. I think it's important that we understand that and teach that to our children.
          I have a 9 year old daughter. she takes after her mom so she should turn out alright
          I have little tolerance for new-agey philosophy when talking about a situation like this. Everybody or most know already that everything you do will have consequences either good or bad. So what? This is the real world and in the real world, a kid will play with cellphones in school and disobey orders occasionally. And in the real world, some cops will brutally assault minors and others will defend him. Save the wishy washy philosophy for Mind Warriors. They lap that stuff up. Sometimes children do things they aren't supposed to do .... duh.
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        • Profile picture of the author Cali16
          Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

          My message is: in everything that happens to us or for us, our own choices, are always a part of the equation that makes the end result. Might be a big or small part, but they're in there. I think it's important that we understand that and teach that to our children.
          I'm curious, if this little girl (who was 9 y/o in this photo) was your daughter, would you be teaching her that same very flawed message (well-intentioned as it may be)??



          Did some choice this girl (Kim Phuc is her name) make result in her being severely burned by Napalm during the Vietnam war, not to mention her village burned as well??? Is that really the life lesson you intend for your daughter (because that is what you're teaching her)?

          Would you make that same statement to a Holocaust survivor? Did the millions of Jews who were imprisoned, tortured, starved, and / or murdered by Hitler and his henchmen make some bad choice that played a role in the unthinkable horrors they endured? Oh wait - they "chose" to be Jewish so yes, they must be at least partially (or perhaps totally) to blame... Is that what you'd tell them?

          What about those who died or lost loved ones in the 9/11 attacks? Were the terrorists' actions caused, at least in part, by some choice the victims and their loved ones made??

          Do you want to teach your daughter to lack empathy when bad things happen to others, because they must always be at least partly to blame?

          What are you going to say to your daughter if she is ever:
          - betrayed by a close friend
          - blamed and punished for something she didn't do
          - kidnapped
          - raped
          - violently assaulted
          - hit by a drunk driver and paralyzed or disfigured?

          Do you really want her to be blaming herself for every bad thing that happens in her life?

          If you're married to her mother, what if the two of you get divorced while she's still young? Do you want her to believe that she somehow played a role (btw, it's very common for children to believe that it was somehow their fault - something they did - when their parents divorce, which is why your message can be damaging).

          And sometimes, like with the 16 y/o girl and the brutal police officer, the consequences are significantly disproportionate to the misdeed or bad choice a person makes.

          It's good to teach your daughter that bad choices will often result in negative consequences. However, good choices and the best of intentions can also sometimes result in negative consequences. Many things in life that happen to us have absolutely nothing to do with any choice we made.

          There's a balance between taking personal responsibility when appropriate, and accepting and understanding that sometimes bad things happen because 1) life isn't always fair and 2) there are many things over which we have absolutely no control - including the choices and actions of other people. When people blame themselves for things that are beyond their control it can lead to unnecessary guilt, shame, regret, sadness, and depression - not to mention substance abuse and, in some cases, suicide.

          Since you're still determined to blame the 16 y/o girl for the officer's brutal attack, I'm wondering if you'd be singing the same tune if he had just pulled out his gun and shot her (which, sadly, isn't far-fetched these days)... I mean, after all, she was misbehaving in class, so she would have brought it on herself...right?
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          • Profile picture of the author sconer
            This thread is awesome. We flew thru Godwin's law of bringing Nazi's into an argument and 1-uped it with napalming little naked girls.

            I can't wait to see what's next!
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by sconer View Post

              This thread is awesome. We flew thru Godwin's law of bringing Nazi's into an argument and 1-uped it with napalming little naked girls.

              I can't wait to see what's next!
              What's next has already happened. Your meaningless, one liner contribution and my response.
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              • Profile picture of the author sconer
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                What's next has already happened. Your meaningless, one liner contribution and my response.
                I was actually thinking dead babies, that would be the natural progression you would use. Or maybe that's a little too far for 8AM, so instead you would instead bring up rape culture and patriarchy.

                Decisions decisions, what are you going to do next?
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by sconer View Post

                  I'm actually a miserable little troll who is incapable of thought.
                  Fixed that for you
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                  • Profile picture of the author sconer
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    Fixed that for you
                    Awww, that's cute. But the truth is that I just see you for what you are. You've already told everyone here that anyone who disagrees with you is "insane". You've explained how anyone who doesn't feel the way that you do when they watch the video "has something wrong with them".

                    You've made it clear that you are not willing to have an open minded discussion. So what's the point in even trying with you?

                    I'm sorry if my "one liner" laughing at bringing Nazi's and war accidents into this discussion has gotten in the way of your hysteria. I'll let you have the last word.
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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by sconer View Post

                      Awww, that's cute. But the truth is that I just see you for what you are. You've already told everyone here that anyone who disagrees with you is "insane". You've explained how anyone who doesn't feel the way that you do when they watch the video "has something wrong with them".

                      You've made it clear that you are not willing to have an open minded discussion. So what's the point in even trying with you?

                      I'm sorry if my "one liner" laughing at bringing Nazi's and war accidents into this discussion has gotten in the way of your hysteria. I'll let you have the last word.
                      What I said was that anyone who wanted to give cops the authority to assault their children with impunity is insane. That's what I said and we have been having an open discussion, the same type of open discussions some of us have been having here for years. I'm not the only one who thinks that anyone not affected by violence against minors has something wrong with them. It really isn't a brand new, made up concept.

                      I guess I missed the Nazi post but in regards to the Napalm post, it was right on the mark as a rebuttal to the blanket false statement that you are the reason for everything that happens to you.

                      I know you don't really care about accuracy. You're just here to throw flames.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      historically the numbers show that it does in situations like this
                      Isn't that a big part of the problem....numbers "show it" so it must be true in every situation - any time the participants or combatants are of different races? It's an argument that lets people feel justified - that excuses bad behavior - that explains poor choices and dismisses stupid actions.

                      But seems the only numbers you keep track of are white against black....if it's the other way round it doesn't count. Sort of jacks the numbers up doesn't it?

                      I don't think it played a part in this story. I think the story was bad enough on its own without that.


                      A 16 yr old teen is old enough to understand rules of behavior. She's not an innocent child in a war torn country - she's a rude teen who doesn't like rules (like that's something new). She did not deserve what happened - but her own actions were the catalyst. If you were a 16 yr old girl - would you argue with and hit a grown man with a badge? In what universe do you think that will get you what you want? For her sake, I hope she realizes consequences can sometimes be more than you expect.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        Isn't that a big part of the problem....numbers "show it" so it must be true in every situation - any time the participants or combatants are of different races? It's an argument that lets people feel justified - that excuses bad behavior - that explains poor choices and dismisses stupid actions.

                        But seems the only numbers you keep track of are white against black....if it's the other way round it doesn't count. Sort of jacks the numbers up doesn't it?

                        I don't think it played a part in this story. I think the story was bad enough on its own without that.


                        A 16 yr old teen is old enough to understand rules of behavior. She's not an innocent child in a war torn country - she's a rude teen who doesn't like rules (like that's something new). She did not deserve what happened - but her own actions were the catalyst. If you were a 16 yr old girl - would you argue with and hit a grown man with a badge? In what universe do you think that will get you what you want? For her sake, I hope she realizes consequences can sometimes be more than you expect.
                        (Brilliant comment Kay.)

                        .."Catalyst" ....THAT'S that word I was looking for.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                          Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

                          (Brilliant comment Kay.)

                          .."Catalyst" ....THAT'S that word I was looking for.
                          Brilliant comment my eye

                          Girl lost her mom and didn't want to lose her cell phone that connects her to whoever she has left. Like PN said - you all have not a drop of humanity. When your daughter starts driving and goes 66 in a 65 mph should a cop end up slamming her to the floor you won't be in here pontificating and whining about choices telling her

                          "life choices lead to consequences is what you should focus on dear. You were being a b"tch (your earlier description) for driving a mile above the speed limit so thats why your jaw is wired shut now and you knee caps are swollen. Fact - Cop wouldn't have to do that if you were driving the speed limit"

                          such utter hypocrisy masquerading as sense

                          there is not a person in this thread that hasn't broken the law. If you go 36 in 35 mph zone you have broken the law. There are some laws broken we didn;t even know we broke (and ignorance of the law is no exclusion for having broken it). Pure malarkey
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                          • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
                            "didn't want to lose her cell phone that connects her to whoever she has left"

                            Has this actually been established as fact or is it based on the play written by the authors of this very thread, based on the story of a poor orphan girl.
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                            • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                              Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

                              Has this actually been established as fact or is it based on the play written by the authors of this very thread, based on the story of a poor orphan girl.
                              Another asinine and needless comment.

                              It's amazing the number of people who've managed to delude themselves as to the contribution and value their puerile and pointless replies offer.
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                            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                              Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

                              "didn't want to lose her cell phone that connects her to whoever she has left"

                              Has this actually been established as fact or is it based on the play written by the authors of this very thread, based on the story of a poor orphan girl.
                              Edit: Not sure about that. But, why didn't you ask the same thing about whether this girl's mother actually said she was proud of her ( didn't happen ) or whether this was true "If you were a 16 yr old girl - would you argue with and hit a grown man with a badge?" which from all accounts I have read and seen didn't happen either?

                              Joe was right about one thing, this girl had bad parenting. It's bad parenting to die and leave your kid an orphan. :/

                              Every teenager of a parent here has done something worse than what this girl did I bet. You may not know it happened perhaps because it was handled better than what this school did. Kids aren't perfect and either are parents.
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                            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

                              "didn't want to lose her cell phone that connects her to whoever she has left"

                              Has this actually been established as fact or is it based on the play written by the authors of this very thread, based on the story of a poor orphan girl.
                              Actually, I read that in a news report but what difference does it make? Would you have any more empathy? I doubt it. If watching a young girl, even as you claim to have a daughter, getting dragged and thrown around a room by an out of control maniac doesn't illicit empathy, why would a cell phone matter?
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                              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                No one here is defending this officer - he's been fired - he'll probably be sued or charged - is there any reason to keep arguing about him?

                                The "orphan" info was just released - previously written in news stories - "was released to her parents".

                                To argue now that she wouldn't break a "connection" is imagining something we know nothing about. We don't know how long she's been in foster care - or who she was texting - or whether the girl has had problems in class before.

                                We don't know WHY the teacher and administrator were not more understanding of her problems if those are an issue - or why this cop wasn't fired for previous incidents - or why the girl refused to cooperate with the teacher, etc. There's no new info on this - and making up scenarios to argue them doesn't help.

                                This could be a wakeup for this girl - and also a means to pay for college and get started on a good life. I hope she'll grab it with both hands and hold on.
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                                • Profile picture of the author yukon
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                  No one here is defending this officer - he's been fired - he'll probably be sued or charged - is there any reason to keep arguing about him?

                                  The "orphan" info was just released - previously written in news stories - "was released to her parents".

                                  To argue now that she wouldn't break a "connection" is imagining something we know nothing about. We don't know how long she's been in foster care - or who she was texting - or whether the girl has had problems in class before.

                                  We don't know WHY the teacher and administrator were not more understanding of her problems if those are an issue - or why this cop wasn't fired for previous incidents - or why the girl refused to cooperate with the teacher, etc. There's no new info on this - and making up scenarios to argue them doesn't help.

                                  This could be a wakeup for this girl - and also a means to pay for college and get started on a good life. I hope she'll grab it with both hands and hold on.

                                  Yea, kinda odd they didn't have a counselor step in before the cop was called. I'm guessing the Admin. isn't qualified for counseling considering how a non-issue (phone) escalated into calling a cop. They obviously couldn't talk someone down off a ledge If they wanted to.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        A 16 yr old teen is old enough to understand rules of behavior. She's not an innocent child in a war torn country
                        Kay, just to be clear, I wasn't in any way attempting to compare this 16 y/o girl (who I said early on deserved consequences for her defiant behavior) to the little girl burned by Napalm.

                        That post was directly in response to the dangerous "lesson" that everything that happens to a person is always at least partly their fault (due to some choice they made). I used extreme examples intentionally - to drive home the point.

                        However, I also felt that it might help put things a bit more in perspective for those who seem to feel she was somehow to blame for the cop's brutal behavior. The fact that he had to be called in (due to the school's ridiculous statute) is on her (if she was continuing to defy the teacher and this wasn't a case of the teacher also being completely out of line by demanding to have her phone after she'd already put it away and apologized - the story seems to keep changing). His inappropriate response, however, was 100% on him - not her.

                        I do understand your point about consequences sometimes being much worse than expected (or deserved), but would never want to suggest to someone like her that they're to blame for the excessiveness of the consequences.

                        To put it another way: Being the initial catalyst in a string of events doesn't mean a person automatically deserves to be blamed for the entire string of events.

                        I hope that makes sense (including why I felt my other post was relevant to this story). Caution must always be used when attributing blame.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                          To put it another way: Being the initial catalyst in a string of events doesn't mean a person automatically deserves to be blamed for the entire string of events.
                          I fully agree with that. I think of the young boy who took the orange tip off his play gun and then aimed it at people and at a cop. To often the string of events ends in tragedy and kids, especially, don't expect the worst to happen.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                          However, I also felt that it might help put things a bit more in perspective for those who seem to feel she was somehow to blame for the cop's brutal behavior. The fact that he had to be called in (due to the school's ridiculous statute) is on her (if she was continuing to defy the teacher and this wasn't a case of the teacher also being completely out of line by demanding to have her phone after she'd already put it away and apologized - the story seems to keep changing). His inappropriate response, however, was 100% on him - not her.

                          I do understand your point about consequences sometimes being much worse than expected (or deserved), but would never want to suggest to someone like her that they're to blame for the excessiveness of the consequences.

                          To put it another way: Being the initial catalyst in a string of events doesn't mean a person automatically deserves to be blamed for the entire string of events.

                          I hope that makes sense (including why I felt my other post was relevant to this story). Caution must always be used when attributing blame.
                          Just Thanking your post isn't enough. Sometimes it's just a privilege to read such insightful thought. Clear thinking and compassionate.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                          Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                          for those who seem to feel she was somehow to blame.
                          She was, is and remains to blame for this "event." Her inappropriate behavior precipitated the "event."

                          This is a shit-sandwich she made. This is a shit-sandwich she should eat.


                          Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                          To put it another way: Being the initial catalyst in a string of events doesn't mean a person automatically deserves to be blamed for the entire string of events.
                          Life doesn't seem to work that way on the 3rd planet.


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                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                            She was, is and remains to blame for this "event." Her inappropriate behavior precipitated the "event."

                            This is a shit-sandwich she made. This is a shit-sandwich she should eat.
                            Actually, she's not to blame that the teacher and administrator were incompetent to manage what should have been a minor disciplinary incident in a normal school day full of minor disciplinary incidents. She's also not to blame for the cop's out of control rage issues when someone doesn't jump when he says jump. She's not to blame that he did not follow the protocol that he was trained to follow in such incidents. And he's eating that shit sandwich that he made for himself.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                              Although not everyone here is doing this, I notice that many are either blaming the girl for everything, or blaming the policeman for everything.

                              To me, that just shows that the extreme views are the ones that tend to get posted. Maybe because the middle of the road people just aren't that interested.

                              But it really stands out.
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                              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                Banned
                                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                Although not everyone here is doing this, I notice that many are either blaming the girl for everything, or blaming the policeman for everything.

                                To me, that just shows that the extreme views are the ones that tend to get posted. Maybe because the middle of the road people just aren't that interested.

                                But it really stands out.
                                Well, let's consider what made a minor discipline problem at school into a national media event that resulted in someone losing their job.

                                Girl on cellphone at school > cop tossing a minor around the room like a ragdoll

                                The teacher should have been able to handle his own class' discipline problems. The administrator should have been able to do that also. The cop should execute his job with professionalism and self control. The teenager should have left the room when asked to.

                                How often in this country are there minor and not so minor discipline problems in school that don't make the national media as a major news story? Millions per day?
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                              • Profile picture of the author discrat
                                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                Although not everyone here is doing this, I notice that many are either blaming the girl for everything, or blaming the policeman for everything.

                                To me, that just shows that the extreme views are the ones that tend to get posted. Maybe because the middle of the road people just aren't that interested.

                                But it really stands out.
                                For the Life of me, I can't figure out why this Thread has gone on this long.

                                Yeah, the scenario and the results are somewhat interesting to me in this case. But that lasted for about a day

                                Actually I do not even know why I keep coming back to this Thread lol

                                Maybe it is somewhat entertaining to see people make fools of themselves( as there has been plenty of that on exhibit here)...I don't know


                                The girl was in the wrong and the cop was in the wrong. But the Cop is the one who is MORE wrong and should be disciplined appropriately because he is the adult and a person of Authority.

                                End of story
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                                • Profile picture of the author yukon
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                  For the Life of me, I can't figure out why this Thread has gone on this long.

                                  Everyone wants to have the last word. As of this post I'm WINNING!
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                                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                  For the Life of me, I can't figure out why this Thread has gone on this long.
                                  Simple. You haven't posted yet another very controversial thread to take our minds off of this one. lol. You're slacking.

                                  Two: We're in between viral videos that make national news. Something dramatic needs to happen soon or this could go 10 pages.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                  Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                                  For the Life of me, I can't figure out why this Thread has gone on this long.

                                  Yeah, the scenario and the results are somewhat interesting to me in this case. But that lasted for about a day

                                  Actually I do not even know why I keep coming back to this Thread lol

                                  Maybe it is somewhat entertaining to see people make fools of themselves( as there has been plenty of that on exhibit here)...I don't know


                                  The girl was in the wrong and the cop was in the wrong. But the Cop is the one who is MORE wrong and should be disciplined appropriately because he is the adult and a person of Authority.

                                  End of story
                                  No...BEGINNING of story.

                                  What did the girl have for breakfast? Is the cop superhuman? Were ghosts involved? Why was the cop wearing a badge that said, "Issued in 2075"? When he flipped he girl, did it start a worm hole? How many dimensions did you count in that room? I counted 7.

                                  Why did the teacher have a lizard tongue? When you play the video in reverse, why do we hear, "Flip that girl!" in the background?

                                  If the girl is adopted, is she from Krypton? Was that a wig she was wearing? Is the cop Anti-wig?

                                  When the ex-cop is having sex with his wife, do they toss each other around? Did someone put Super Glue on that girl's phone? Is that why she couldn't put it down?

                                  Does the cop work for the Illuminati? Does he have a prehensile tail?

                                  Does eating 12 donuts in 20 minutes, cause a sugar rush to your brain, and cause you to type nonsense?

                                  The answer is oblivious.
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                              • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                                Banned
                                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                Although not everyone here is doing this, I notice that many are either blaming the girl for everything, or blaming the policeman for everything.

                                To me, that just shows that the extreme views are the ones that tend to get posted. Maybe because the middle of the road people just aren't that interested.

                                But it really stands out.
                                Indeed.

                                They could have hired a celebrity like for example Mike Tyson or Mr.T. Can you imagine if Mike Tyson was there to defuse the situation?

                                Kids respect and like celebrities.

                                I don't understand why americans don't make Mike Tyson the secretary of education.
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by sconer View Post

              This thread is awesome. We flew thru Godwin's law of bringing Nazi's into an argument and 1-uped it with napalming little naked girls.

              I can't wait to see what's next!

              You ain't seen nothing yet, this is only the opening act.
              • Why don't you like me? Chapter one, my first period.





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          • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
            Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

            I'm curious, if this little girl (who was 9 y/o in this photo) was your daughter, would you be teaching her that same very flawed message (well-intentioned as it may be)??



            Did some choice this girl (Kim Phuc is her name) make result in her being severely burned by Napalm during the Vietnam war, not to mention her village burned as well??? Is that really the life lesson you intend for your daughter (because that is what you're teaching her)?

            Would you make that same statement to a Holocaust survivor? Did the millions of Jews who were imprisoned, tortured, starved, and / or murdered by Hitler and his henchmen make some bad choice that played a role in the unthinkable horrors they endured? Oh wait - they "chose" to be Jewish so yes, they must be at least partially (or perhaps totally) to blame... Is that what you'd tell them?

            What about those who died or lost loved ones in the 9/11 attacks? Were the terrorists' actions caused, at least in part, by some choice the victims and their loved ones made??

            Do you want to teach your daughter to lack empathy when bad things happen to others, because they must always be at least partly to blame?

            What are you going to say to your daughter if she is ever:
            - betrayed by a close friend
            - blamed and punished for something she didn't do
            - kidnapped
            - raped
            - violently assaulted
            - hit by a drunk driver and paralyzed or disfigured?

            Do you really want her to be blaming herself for every bad thing that happens in her life?

            If you're married to her mother, what if the two of you get divorced while she's still young? Do you want her to believe that she somehow played a role (btw, it's very common for children to believe that it was somehow their fault - something they did - when their parents divorce, which is why your message can be damaging).

            And sometimes, like with the 16 y/o girl and the brutal police officer, the consequences are significantly disproportionate to the misdeed or bad choice a person makes.

            It's good to teach your daughter that bad choices will often result in negative consequences. However, good choices and the best of intentions can also sometimes result in negative consequences. Many things in life that happen to us have absolutely nothing to do with any choice we made.

            There's a balance between taking personal responsibility when appropriate, and accepting and understanding that sometimes bad things happen because 1) life isn't always fair and 2) there are many things over which we have absolutely no control - including the choices and actions of other people. When people blame themselves for things that are beyond their control it can lead to unnecessary guilt, shame, regret, sadness, and depression - not to mention substance abuse and, in some cases, suicide.

            Since you're still determined to blame the 16 y/o girl for the officer's brutal attack, I'm wondering if you'd be singing the same tune if he had just pulled out his gun and shot her (which, sadly, isn't far-fetched these days)... I mean, after all, she was misbehaving in class, so she would have brought it on herself...right?
            Your taking things way to literal Cali....all those things you mentioned are way outside the realm of reasonability.

            Obviously I'm not going to teach my kid these things. Nor is anybody.

            We are talking about behaviour in a classroom...where someone was choosing to not follow the direction given to them by the person in charge.

            in that kind of instance, if it were my daughter...her personal choice to disobey, most certainly would influence the path to a bad result, whatever that may be.

            in this case, the result was over the top.....on any given day in any other classroom....her result is likely far less destructive
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

      (sheesh no sense of humor)

      Suzanne and Mikey,

      Question for you both....so...as if we were watching a replay of events...the teacher says put your phone away...and the girl puts it away.

      ...what happens next?
      Do you have children? I have 4 and 7 grandchildren. I've found that things are rarely quite that easy or straightforward. lol.

      Got a question for you. If the teacher, being the mature, well trained professional that we [cough] know he is, was able to manage a minor, every day type of behavior from a teen with competence

      ... what happens next?


      LMAO on this one. Considering the thread.
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      • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
        I started this thread. And I started it because I was horrified at reading and seeing about a young girl thrown around a classroom like a rag doll by a so called "defender of the law", expressing his version of how to show authority to minors. I was appalled, and more so because I am a father to girls of that age.

        To put it in perspective . . .

        Comments in this thread about color, authority, respect, manners, race, reasoning and everything else . . . all really don't matter.

        The bottom line is a girl, a minor, who is supposedly in the safe custody of a school that is overseen by a police officer - is then assaulted by that same police officer.

        I don't care for his background, or the reasons for him doing what he did, or even whether the girl was in the right or wrong. Or even if she attempted to hit him or whatever.

        The fact remains that she was a minor. A minor, unarmed (apart from a good mouth), and viciously assaulted in front of a class full of witnesses. If that were in a street or shop there would certainly be charges against the officer, and I've no doubt many would have stepped in (including myself) when seeing a young girl brutally treated in this way.

        To me this smacks about all that's wrong in this world. How can you be expected to respect law and order when there's no respect from them even towards young females in a classroom.

        Keep this in context. This was a CHILD that was disruptive in class. That's all. There were much better ways of dealing with the situation without resorting to outright violence.

        Yes, the kid was in the wrong, but to ALL THOSE in this thread who've posted asinine comments regarding the justification of the brutal officer's actions, then all I can say is . . .

        a) You've not got children

        and / or

        b) You've not got a heart
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
          Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

          a) You've not got children
          My mother would have beat my a$$ until I couldn't sit down and then make me go to school and face the other students and teachers.

          Had I been arrested, she would have left me there, then beat my a$$ until I couldn't sit down.

          There are things I do and don't do to this day because of my mom, and she passed away three years ago. Thanks Mom!

          Not got children? Let me suggest that "the student" doesn't have much in the way of parents.

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          • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
            Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

            My mother would have beat my a$$ until I couldn't sit down and then make me go to school and face the other students and teachers.

            Had I been arrested, she would have left me there, then beat my a$$ until I couldn't sit down.

            There are things I do and don't do to this day because of my mom, and she passed away three years ago. Thanks Mom!

            Not got children? Let me suggest that "the student" doesn't have much in the way of parents.

            Joe Mobley
            Yeah, yeah. Whatever.

            Just because you had a strict upbringing it's evidently clouded your vision as to when being battered is acceptable.

            We're not talking about the parents here, Joe. Sadly, that's a fact you seem intent on overriding.

            The point has already been made in this thread numerous times about the brutality shown by the officer. It's obviously completely wasted on you.

            You're one of a handful of people who frequent the OTF that refuses to budge from his stance, whether in the minority or even a solo opinion, and whether right . . or usually wrong.

            I find your constant interruptions in the thread in defending pure violence shown towards a child nothing short of sad - and very disturbing.

            Still, there has to be your kind in this world. Without you our perception of crazy could never be fully quantified.
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            • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
              Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

              violence shown towards a child
              You throw that term around like a four year old was beat up. Not the case!

              Well what-do-you-know, let's have a look right here.

              OCTOBER 28, 2015

              Florin High principal body-slammed in student fight that results in 3 arrests

              Three Florin High School students were taken to juvenile hall Monday after a wild lunchroom fight in which Principal Don Ross was lifted off his feet and slammed to the ground.

              The fight has drawn national attention after a student took a cellphone video and posted it to YouTube.

              A 13-year-old ["Child" according to +-] and two 15-year-old ["Children"] students were arrested; their names are being withheld because they are juveniles.

              Two face allegations of battery on school staff causing injury, while the third was held on suspicion of making threats against other students and law enforcement, according to the Elk Grove Unified School District.
              These lovely "children", who could do no wrong because they are "children".

              PICKED UP A GROWN MAN AND THREW HIM TO THE GROUND!

              ...

              Maybe after they body-slammed the principal, they went and got their sippy cup.


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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                Well what-do-you-know, let's have a look right here.

                OCTOBER 28, 2015

                Florin High principal body-slammed in student fight that results in 3 arrests

                These lovely "children", who could do no wrong because they are "children".

                PICKED UP A GROWN MAN AND THREW HIM TO THE GROUND!

                but....but...but....but.....I don't understand . Shouldn't we not jump to conclusions?.....umm wait to see the context? be umm level headed and wait for more facts? Muse that there might have been a good reason the Principal got slammed??? Get all the angles of videos???


                See people? how that ahem - level headedness goes out the window? meanwhile you got to love the logic that a fight on the west coast makes any point to a situation with a girl sitting down in her seat on the east coast. Quantum entanglement?

                Plus I read the Principal wasn't injured. We heard it here first that if there are no injuries it wasn't really violent.So whats the fuss?

                P.S Kudos to the principle for getting in there and no complaints if they grabbed that 15 year old and took him down. One situation has no comparison to the other.

                Joe as usual missed the point entirely. The age of the girl is in reference to her mental decision not to give up a phone of hers not attack anyone . No one claimed a 15 year old couldn't be strong enough to hurt anyone.

                classical strawman argument.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Signature

    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Wow!

      I'm sure the fact that she became a recent orphan still won't deter the same old group of folks here who always blame the victim in stories like these. It was her fault that she now has a cast on her arm, a sore neck and back, and more psychological problems to deal with besides losing her mother recently. She's just a snot nosed bitch who got what she deserved. Smh.

      I found this quote interesting:

      Rutherford said if an officer had done that to an animal, he would be in jail. He also says the officer should not have been called to the classroom in the first place.
      Yep.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        You are putting words in people's mouths that they didn't say and didn't write here. It's a petty way to argue your points.

        I think being an orphan does have a bearing on this - especially if she lost her mother recently. But the initial stories - on the same sites - claimed

        The student -- who was released to her parents after the incident --
        As for Rutherford's claims - he's her attorney so getting the biggest settlement is his job. If she's an orphan it could explain an attitude and emotional issues - seems like teacher/school would have/should have known about that, doesn't it?
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Suzanne -

          I looked up that "proud of her" quote - and it was the mother of the OTHER girl who was arrested who said that. A couple articles misreported it but that's where the quote came from. That's the girl arrested for cussing/praying.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Suzanne -

            I looked up that "proud of her" quote - and it was the mother of the OTHER girl who was arrested who said that. A couple articles misreported it but that's where the quote came from. That's the girl arrested for cussing/praying.
            Yeah, I know. I searched for information on the first girl's parents and could find not a single word about them. Now we know why.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              Yeah, I know. I searched for information on the first girl's parents and could find not a single word about them. Now we know why.
              I corrected that like three times in this thread but the narrative bias of a mother supporting her child disobeying a cop and disrupting a class was just too sweet for some to even bother verifying.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            I agree with Joe and Claude - I think even people here that get bent out of shape at each other over news stories would probably get along fine in person. There are a few people on this forum I don't acknowledge and wouldn't care to meet....but I seldom see them in the OT section.

            I think if a bunch of us had a party - it would be a good time!
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              I agree with Joe and Claude - I think even people here that get bent out of shape at each other over news stories would probably get along fine in person. There are a few people on this forum I don't acknowledge and wouldn't care to meet....but I seldom see them in the OT section.

              I think if a bunch of us had a party - it would be a good time!
              I think if a bunch of us had a party we wouldn't even bother discussing every controversial topic that comes up. People rarely do. I think it would probably be a blast.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Wow!

        I'm sure the fact that she became a recent orphan still won't deter the same old group of folks here who always blame the victim in stories like these. It was her fault that she now has a cast on her arm, a sore neck and back, and more psychological problems to deal with besides losing her mother recently. She's just a snot nosed bitch who got what she deserved. Smh.
        .
        If they do continue on mark and mark em well because if you still have to spiel a bunch of junk at a minor that just lost her mom you're a sad sack of a human being.

        In a weird way I am happy for her this happened. She just went from a girl that might have felt like she was alone in the world to one most of the country is rallying behind.

        That cop better hope this never goes to a jury. Those videos and the fact she is an orphan - they'll probably ask for jury instructions of how much they can charge him with.
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Wow!

        I'm sure the fact that she became a recent orphan
        still won't deter the same old group of folks here who always blame the victim in stories like these. It was her fault that she now has a cast on her arm, a sore neck and back, and more psychological problems to deal with besides losing her mother recently. She's just a snot nosed bitch who got what she deserved. Smh.

        I found this quote interesting:



        Yep.
        That right there defiantly makes your original idea of how to handle the situation even better.
        If you remember I've mentioned before about my step daughter's mother dieing from cancer when she was 13 and her father being murdered when she was 14. One thing I always taught her was that she was responsible for her actions. We also discussed what caused those actions and if the action was inappropriate, why, and what would be the proper action.
        Knowing that her mother recently died maybe dragging her chair out into the hall and calling in a grief counselor who is better equipped to handle that type of situation would of been a better call.
        Actually thinking about it a little more the proper thing to do would of been for the teacher to show a little more compassion and maybe just have a (as private as possible) conversation with the girl saying he understood her situation and would she either put the phone away in class or if it was that important to her take it out in the hall.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          If you remember I've mentioned before about my step daughter's mother dieing from cancer when she was 13 and her father being murdered when she was 14. One thing I always taught her was that she was responsible for her actions. We also discussed what caused those actions and if the action was inappropriate, why, and what would be the proper action.
          That sounds like wise parenting to me.

          When my son was young, I was always teaching him that he is responsible for his actions, where he is, how people react, what happens to him.

          One day, maybe he was 16 or so, he said, "What if I get cancer? Is it my fault?"

          And I had to explain, "No. And many things that happen to you aren't your fault. But taking responsibility should always be your default position. Act as if, you are in control, act as if it all depends on what you do. And the reason you do this, is that now you can learn and improve and your life will be easier. If your default position is that you aren't responsible for what happens to you, you'll never make the effort. And once you start blaming others, you lose"


          I have no idea what it's like to be an orphan, or how it affects you. No idea how that should affect the girl's behavior. But it shouldn't have affected the cop's behavior, or the teacher's, or the school's.

          I still think taking her (and her desk) to the hall was a great idea. If hat happened, none of us would be arguing about it. We would have found something else to argue about.
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            That sounds like wise parenting to me.

            When my son was young, I was always teaching him that he is responsible for his actions, where he is, how people react, what happens to him.

            One day, maybe he was 16 or so, he said, "What if I get cancer? Is it my fault?"

            And I had to explain, "No. And many things that happen to you aren't your fault. But taking responsibility should always be your default position. Act as if, you are in control, act as if it all depends on what you do. And the reason you do this, is that now you can learn and improve and your life will be easier. If your default position is that you aren't responsible for what happens to you, you'll never make the effort. And once you start blaming others, you lose"


            I have no idea what it's like to be an orphan, or how it affects you. No idea how that should affect the girl's behavior. But it shouldn't have affected the cop's behavior, or the teacher's, or the school's.

            I still think taking her (and her desk) to the hall was a great idea. If hat happened, none of us would be arguing about it. We would have found something else to argue about.
            Thanks Claude.
            With my step daughter I tried to use good actions as examples as much bad actions. It was important to me for her to know that sometimes the consequences are simply knowing you did the right thing.
            I also tried to teach her that sometimes things just happen. Like your example with your son. You still have to react to what happens to you that is not your fault and those actions are what you are responsible for.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

              Thanks Claude.
              With my step daughter I tried to use good actions as examples as much bad actions. It was important to me for her to know that sometimes the consequences are simply knowing you did the right thing.
              I also tried to teach her that sometimes things just happen. Like your example with your son. You still have to react to what happens to you that is not your fault and those actions are what you are responsible for.
              You may enjoy this.

              My son and I used to be very good at playing pool. When he was 20 or so, we were playing at the local bowling alley. And he was winning, game after game.

              He stopped ad asked "Dad, be honest...are you letting me win?"

              I said, "No. I would never do that. You are winning honestly"

              He said, "Does it bother you that I'm beating you?" (I loved him for asking)

              I said, "No. You have to understand...you're my Son. If I beat you, I won. If you beat me, my son won. I can't lose"
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I said, "No. You have to understand...you're my Son. If I beat you, I won. If you beat me, my son won. I can't lose"
                Yep ... it's a win win either way but actually even more of a win to me if the kids win fair and square. My son used to make me feel like an idiot playing video games. I actually tried very hard to beat him and it was just laughable.
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              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                You may enjoy this.

                My son and I used to be very good at playing pool. When he was 20 or so, we were playing at the local bowling alley. And he was winning, game after game.

                He stopped ad asked "Dad, be honest...are you letting me win?"

                I said, "No. I would never do that. You are winning honestly"

                He said, "Does it bother you that I'm beating you?" (I loved him for asking)

                I said, "No. You have to understand...you're my Son. If I beat you, I won. If you beat me, my son won. I can't lose"
                That reminded me of my father. Claude. With us it started with checkers and went on to pool. I don't think I ever won a game of checkers against him but he was proud of me for not giving up. In pool I did get better then him and he was proud of me for that also.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Well, that pretty much debunks the "news" that her mother said she was proud of her for standing up for herself. "She recently lost her mother."

      It was the second student's mother, the student who objected to the brutality that is proud of her daughter for standing up.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned

      Damn, that really does suck.

      That explains why the girl that stood up for the abused kid said the abused kid didn't have anyone.



      [source]

      I know this girl don’t got nobody and I couldn’t believe this was happening,” Kenny, 18, told WLTX.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    For those that don't know...

    When you're in foster care & turn 18, you're usually out the door & on the street.

    Trust me on this.

    I hope the girl wins a lawsuit & at least gets enough money to support herself because If she's in High school she doesn't have much longer before she's too old for foster care.

    Imagine all this shit looming over your head when you're a teenager. Has to be rough.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      For those that don't know...

      When you're in foster care & turn 18, you're usually out the door & on the street.

      Trust me on this.

      I hope the girl wins a lawsuit & at least gets enough money to support herself because If she's in High school she doesn't have much longer before she's too old for foster care.
      I do too. I'm glad she has an attorney representing her. Gee, I wonder if the foster parents all of a sudden would like to adopt her. lol.

      In foster care, don't the payments stop at age 18 for the foster care parents? If so ... that's why they would be tossed out on the streets.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        I do too. I'm glad she has an attorney representing her. Gee, I wonder if the foster parents all of a sudden would like to adopt her. lol.

        In foster care, don't the payments stop at age 18 for the foster care parents? If so ... that's why they would be tossed out on the streets.
        The problem is there's no transition from foster care to working a job as an adult. A kid has to be in school up to age 18 If they're in foster care so there's no way they'll already have a job & be able to put a roof over their head on their own.

        I'm not kidding when I say they literally wake up on their 18th birthday & hit the street.

        What happens is they can't be housed with kids because 18 is considered an adult, which is understandable but again there's no transition from child life to adult life, it literally happens overnight.

        Each state in the US could have different laws and/or services to help because it's pretty much state Gov managing foster situations but odds are she'll be on the street If she doesn't have any other family to help her out. My bet is, If she had other family she wouldn't be in foster care.

        Ageing out of foster care is one of those hidden fails in the US that a lot of folks don't realize exist. It's real & it happens every single day in the US.

        I'm quoting the article below for a reference but I know the foster situation.

        Keep in mind that's 23,000 people in a single year being swept under the rug.

        [source]

        In 2013, more than 23,000 young people— whom states failed to reunite with their families or place in permanent homes — aged out of foster care, simply because they were too old to remain.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          The problem is there's no transition from foster care to working a job as an adult. A kid has to be in school up to age 18 If they're in foster care so there's no way they'll already have a job & be able to put a roof over their head on their own.

          I'm not kidding when I say they literally wake up on their 18th birthday & hit the street.
          So are you saying that if the foster parents have other foster children in the house, that they couldn't offer her a place to stay there until she was on her feet if they wanted to and still remain in the foster program?
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            So are you saying that if the foster parents have other foster children in the house, that they couldn't offer her a place to stay there until she was on her feet if they wanted to and still remain in the foster program?
            I might be wrong but my understanding is they can. the problem is that in many cases foster caring is a business. The foster parents don't want to keep the 18 year old with no payments coming.
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            • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              I might be wrong but my understanding is they can. the problem is that in many cases foster caring is a business. The foster parents don't want to keep the 18 year old with no payments coming.
              There is a logistical problem as well.

              There are only so many rooms in a house and they are likely regulated as to how many occupants they can have.

              I don't know if foster parents could elect to keep an 18 year old (even if willing to forego the financial support), or if they are forced to take on the next kid if they want to remain in the system. (Assuming
              they would be at max occupancy.)
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            So are you saying that if the foster parents have other foster children in the house, that they couldn't offer her a place to stay there until she was on her feet if they wanted to and still remain in the foster program?



            I'm not sure on that. They might be able to get around it If the girl legally takes their last name. They would still have to have a case manger review the family members (anyone living under their roof).

            Like already said some foster families are in it for a paycheck.

            Then again I know there's foster families out there that don't spend a single penny of those Gov checks, they pay for the kids expenses out of pocket & save the Gov money for the kid when they get older. Technically that's illegal (laugh, but it's illegal) If that money is saved in a bank account, even If the kids name is on the bank account. They can't keep a positive balance in a bank account from those Gov checks.

            Anyways, there's some good families out there that really do foster care because they care. On the flip side, again, some are looking for a free paycheck.

            I know foster care in SC has recently got very tough with regulations compared to years ago, just basic things like window sizes in bedrooms have to be so big, railings on stairs have to be so high off the floor, etc... There's a HUGE list that can disqualify a home, not necessarily the foster parents.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              ILike already said some foster families are in it for a paycheck.

              ...

              I know foster care in SC has recently got very tough with regulations compared to years ago, just basic things like window sizes in bedrooms have to be so big, railings on stairs have to be so high off the floor, etc... There's a HUGE list that can disqualify a home, not necessarily the foster parents.
              That's pretty weird. I had no idea that they would make window and railing sizes a criteria. I suppose some of those are just exaggerated or maybe not so exaggerated safety concerns. But still sad for the kids who get a home only because someone is getting paid to do it and aren't in it because they want to help kids.
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              • Profile picture of the author yukon
                Banned
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                That's pretty weird. I had no idea that they would make window and railing sizes a criteria. I suppose some of those are just exaggerated or maybe not so exaggerated safety concerns. But still sad for the kids who get a home only because someone is getting paid to do it and aren't in it because they want to help kids.
                Yes, it's all about safety but simple things would force out potential foster parents with older homes.

                My inlaws gave up on trying to be foster parents because they kept getting list after list of upgrades that needed to be done to the home. This is a really nice 5 bedroom brick house built in the late 1990s. They invested a lot of money (a few thousand) in the upgrades before giving up. The list of upgrades just kept getting bigger & bigger. They had already adopted one girl at birth, she's 24 now (my sister inlaw).
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    I hope she hasn't done anything else wrong in her life.

    Now it's just about time for some folks to start trying to dig up dirt on her to buttress their claims that the brutality was justified.
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  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    As I read through the different articles that are out and about on this event...its a little bit hard to pull together a clear picture of what really happened but I did find a couple of things worth consideration.

    It seems that this officer on the school premises has a history of being aggressive with unruly students....in other words the guys is a dick of the highest order....and apparently kids had complained before but to... the deaf ear of administrators. ...so sounds like this guy should have been outta there a long time ago...and I'm inclined to say maybe someone in the administration should be losing their job as well, because of that.

    I thought it interesting that both the teacher and the administrator on hand said they felt that the officer was not out of bounds in how he handled it....which makes me wonder what the girl did or said to agitate those two school employees that much...and alternatively...something is incompetent about those two that they let this thing about a phone escalate...I'm in aggreeance with Tim P. that the campus cop should never have been called in.

    then the words from the sheriff that is over the cop....he said watching the video of his guy made him want to vomit...but he also says....“If she had not disrupted that school, disrupted that class, we would not be standing here today,” Lott said at a press conference.

    So now I'm really curious to hear the testimony of the teacher and administrator and the girl...what was exactly requested of her what exact word and actions were exchanged.

    There is also several remarks by fellow students in the classroom about "she didnt do nuthin" or... she only took the phone out for a quick second....I'm inclined to take all that with a grain of salt cuz kids are gonna lie...they want it to be about the big bad cop against black girl. (A kids version of I didnt do nuthin" is usually different than a parents haha)

    Obviously she made some choices that didn't sit well, otherwise this is a random assault on an unsuspecting person...and we know its not that. ....we just need more exactness on what exactly transpired between her and the teacher. ( it might be out there if someone can point to it??)
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I tried to find some foster care info as I previously believed everyone "aged out" at 18 - but a friend in MS still has her foster daughter in her home at age 20. She wanted the girl to stay - it's not about payment for her. The girl has been in their home since she was 13 or so - but was not available for adoption.

      To me that's one of the biggest weaknesses in the foster system - the reluctance of courts to terminate parental rights. It puts kids on a shelf for years while mom or dad MIGHT get off drugs, or out of jail, or sober up...or grow up.

      I don't know if the laws are strictly set by state or not but I found this

      Foster Care After You Are 18 | Lawyers for Children
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I tried to find some foster care info as I previously believed everyone "aged out" at 18 - but a friend in MS still has her foster daughter in her home at age 20. She wanted the girl to stay - it's not about payment for her. The girl has been in their home since she was 13 or so - but was not available for adoption.

        To me that's one of the biggest weaknesses in the foster system - the reluctance of courts to terminate parental rights. It puts kids on a shelf for years while mom or dad MIGHT get off drugs, or out of jail, or sober up...or grow up.

        I don't know if the laws are strictly set by state or not but I found this

        Foster Care After You Are 18 | Lawyers for Children

        I'm 99.99% sure it's state law & each state has it's own foster care system (DSS).

        I do know for a fact that kids usually age out of foster care when they're 18 years old. Granted some situations could be different.

        Keep in mind, the older kids get, the less they're wanted (adoption, etc...). Most people looking to adopt don't want to deal with baggage (history of being abused, withdrawal, etc...).

        I'm not exaggerating when I say I've known roughly 400 foster kids over time, I have never met one that was a bad person. Abandonment & abuse is usually the biggest problem at no fault of their own, that's twice as tough to deal with being a kid. Being thrown into a safe environment doesn't click over night, it takes time to figure out who can be trusted.

        Also, foster care usually doesn't stop at one foster home, kids get shuffled around from home to home & school to school, a parent being in & out of jail can easily trigger this. It's common for foster kids in & out of the system to go to multiple schools each year which alone is a HUGE adjustment each time it happens. Imagine the first day you went to high school, now imagine doing that 2 or 3 times a year. It's rough.

        It's bad anyone has to experience foster care but 5 years at a decent home is impressive.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post


          I do know for a fact that kids usually age out of foster care when they're 18 years old. Granted some situations could be different.
          Yes, my ex and I were first foster parents and then adoptive parents of three siblings. The foster parents could still receive payments after 18 if the child had a medical problem of some sort. It really is tough on the kids and my kids went through a couple bad years before we got them.
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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Yes, my ex and I were first foster parents and then adoptive parents of three siblings. The foster parents could still receive payments after 18 if the child had a medical problem of some sort. It really is tough on the kids and my kids went through a couple bad years before we got them.
            Cool Tim. I have two of my own and been thinking about Adoption.

            Why did I get the impression you weren't a dad ??
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              Originally Posted by discrat View Post

              Cool Tim. I have two of my own and been thinking about Adoption.
              I would encourage it, especially for those in foster care. There is a great need for high quality and caring parents, which from everything I have seen from your posts here, you qualify.
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

      It seems that this officer on the school premises has a history of being aggressive with unruly students....in other words the guys is a dick of the highest order....and apparently kids had complained before but to... the deaf ear of administrators. ...so sounds like this guy should have been outta there a long time ago...and I'm inclined to say maybe someone in the administration should be losing their job as well, because of that.
      Just an FYI....

      The guy has been a school resource offer since 2008, and he has been the defensive line coach, and the strength and conditioning coach for Spring Valley High School varsity football team for the past few seasons.



      In-fact in November of last year Fields received the Richland School District Two "Culture of Excellence Award". Below is Lonnie B. Nelson Elementary School Principal Karen Beaman presenting him the award.



      I am not defending the actions of this guy, and for sure I did not like the way he tossed/slid the girl across the floor after he yanked her from her desk. Like others on this thread have stated, I also believe this situation should/could have been handled in a different manner.

      That said, the guy is fairly well known around the schools and the district --> and obviously it has not been all bad as indicated by the award he has received, and his continued employment (until now) as a school resource officer and coach.

      Anyway, I am not interested in debating how wrong the girl was, or how poorly the guy acted, I am merely mentioning that he is not just some random cop who was called in to "toss" the young girl around. He has had a long relationship with the schools(s) and was employed as a coach of one of the teams. Yeah, the guy is a very strong guy, supposedly he can bench 600lbs and squat as much as 940lbs.

      No need for him to go extra beast mode on the girl though...obviously his judgement was off, and his actions were overboard when dealing with this particular youth.

      Cheers

      -don
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

        Just an FYI....

        The guy has been a school resource offer since 2008, and he has been the defensive line coach, and the strength and conditioning coach for Spring Valley High School varsity football team for the past few seasons.<snip>
        So what -- he's still a berserk a-hole who was already sued a couple of times before for extreme violence. Dennis Rader was a Boy Scout leader and actively involved in his church. In his spare time he was a sadistic serial killer.
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        • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
          Banned
          Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

          So what -- he's still a berserk a-hole who was already sued a couple of times before for extreme violence. Dennis Rader was a Boy Scout leader and actively involved in his church. In his spare time he was a sadistic serial killer.
          We have a plenty of berserk aholes participating in this forum on a regular basis --> but I don't relate them to the BTK strangler (who is serving ten consecutive life sentences) for obvious reasons.

          #1 This recent incident WAS NOT extreme violence! Was it harsh? Yes. Was it inappropriate? Yes. Was it tactful? No. Was it good for his career? No. Was anyone seriously injured? No. Resisting arrest (especially in a school) is not the way to go...

          #2 The first lawsuit was from when he was patrol officer in 2005...the jury ruled in Fields favor.

          #3 The other lawsuit stems from a supposed gang fight in a Walmart parking lot near the school. In-fact Fields did not even respond to the altercation...he led the investigation where he found that the person that ultimately filed the lawsuit was a gang member. Reese claims he was not a gang member and did not deserve to be expelled from school. Supposedly it was a large gang fight that was meant to "unite" the gangs that was being investigated.

          Case #1 from 10 years ago...the jury found in the officers' favor.

          Case #2 not adjudicated yet...and the officer is accused of no violence in that case.

          This officer has been dealing with kids (and unruly kids and others) as a school resource officer, a coach, and a cop for quite sometime and his record seems relatively clean up to this point. School district awards from the have been given to him which idicate he has been doing a good job according to the district.

          Anyone that deals with kids/teens (and others) in those capacities for that long is going to get a complaint or two and make a mistake or three.

          To relate this cop to a serial killer is irresponsible and wrong. I know many prefer to ignore his positives and accomplishments and crucify him for life at the first well documented case of over-reacting conduct. Seriously, his conduct is comparable/relatable/equatable him to a convicted serial killer, eh? Not in a million years. Good grief...why did I even bother reading this declining forum for a few minutes today? Yeah, I don't know either..

          Cheers

          -don
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          • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
            Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

            <snip>

            To relate this cop to a serial killer is just irresponsible and wrong.<snip>
            You missed my point which was that just because someone does good works and is an active member of the community proves squat.

            Juries' default mode is to rule in a cop's favor in cases of excessive force. Also proves squat.
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          • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
            Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

            #1 This recent incident WAS NOT extreme violence! Was it harsh? Yes. Was it inappropriate? Yes. Was anyone seriously injured? No.
            State Rep. Todd Rutherford (D-Columbia) told WLTX-TV the 16-year-old girl suffered arm, neck and back injuries when Fields grabbed her by the throat and threw her to the ground
            "She is a student who is 16 years old, who now has a cast on her arm, a band aid on her neck, and neck and back problems.
            https://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/bla...back-injuries/
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  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    also...I can't find anywhere in the official statements the part about

    "didn't want to lose her cell phone that connects her to whoever she has left"

    if someone could point me to that thanks




    ..the point being...lets not start making stuff up about what this girl was thinking in the heat of the moment and passing it off as fact.

    Yeah shes an orphan and that is really sad...it makes the whole thing even more gut wrenching...and frankly makes me want to knock the teeth out of that teacher, who really, is the root of the whole escalation of the event.

    ...but it still doesn't change that a girl made a choice before any of that ever even came into play.

    the moral of the story is...kids when your mom tells you to clean your room...clean your room. When your teacher asks you to follow the rules...follow the rules.

    Also,

    on a side note. I got bit/stung by a hornet wasp thing just moments ago. One or two of you might find that ironic and karma like. possibly enjoyable. tried to kill it and I didn't win its still in the house somewhere.....and the worst part is, I used the phrase "you made the wrong choice coming in here"......Yes...I know.......it just doesn't get any better than that.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Signature

    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      'Act like an animal and you will end up being treated like an animal'
      Says the pedophile.
      Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      I knew Ted had to weight in sooner or later...
      Ted would need to climb a few rungs on the evolutionary ladder to be equated with a rabid skunk or any other animal.

      Cheers. - Frank
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post


      Lol, he's an idiot. Funny but still an idiot.

      How is being on a phone & getting body slammed acting like an animal? Doh!
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    @oily

    Sure...and we will probably see a 5-500 million dollar lawsuit to be filed on behalf of the kid that would not obey the teacher, then would not obey the vice-principal, and then would not obey the school resource officer whom is also cop and a coach at the school.

    Next time the girl needs to leave the class when the teacher asks.

    Next time the girl needs to leave the class when the vice-principal asks.

    Next time the girl needs to leave the class when the school resource officer asks.

    Next time the girl needs to leave the class when a cop is called in to remove her.

    Removing a person from that type of desk when they don't want to be removed, and are ignoring instruction, may lead to the person getting yanked from the desk --> which may cause some sort of something, possibly injury.

    That said, the guy should have never "bowled" her across the floor.

    I will believe any serious injury claims when and if (if ever) the medical records are made public. It's not unusual that a suspect may receive some minor injuries when they resist arrest. Do I believe she may have sprained a wrist, received a scratch on her neck, and/or bruised her back or similar...sure.

    Again, she was asked to leave the classroom by the teacher, asked to leave by the the vice-principal, and asked to leave by the school resource officer whom is a cop. She repeatedly refused and then resisted and she bears some of the responsibility for what has happened to her.

    In-fact if I was told by the instructor to leave class for disruptive behavior and refused, and then was told by the vice-principal to leave the class and refused, and then was told that the school resource officer whom is a cop was coming to remove me --> I would fully expect to be yanked from my desk if I refused to leave when the law arrives (if I were still sitting at the desk).

    I would not expect to then be bowled across the floor like a cheap 12 pound ball at the local bowling alley.

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      Sure...and we will probably see a 5-500 million dollar lawsuit to be filed on behalf of the kid that would not obey the teacher, then would not obey the vice-principal, and then would not obey the school resource officer whom is also cop and a coach at the school.

      Next time the girl needs to leave the class when the teacher asks.

      Next time the girl needs to leave the class when the vice-principal asks.

      Next time the girl needs to leave the class when the school resource officer asks.

      Next time the girl needs to leave the class when a cop is called in to remove her.
      Next time the teacher should be able to utilize some of the conflict resolution training that teachers supposedly receive.

      Next time the vice-principal should be able to de-escalate the situation, utilizing his training, to avoid a major conflict.

      Next time the school resource officer should think twice about grabbing a teenage girl who is sitting in a desk.

      Next time a cop is called in to resolve a situation with a defiant teenage girl sitting in a desk, he should try a less aggressive approach first. Another less aggressive approach second.

      Again, this was a defiant teenage girl sitting in a desk. She wasn't up in anyone's face, she wasn't being threatening, she wasn't being physical.

      I have no tolerence or sympathy for punk ass kids who are violent and threatening, and pointed out in this post statistics on violence and threats against teachers by students.

      But adults, and especially professionally trained adults, are and should be held to a higher standard of conflict resolution in such minor offenses.

      If professionally trained adults can't handle a defiant teenage girl in a school desk . . . they have no business being in authority over her. Or anyone else for that matter.

      My dad was a teacher and administrator. My step-dad was a cop. I've seen the best and worst of both worlds. But if I ever saw one of my daughters treated like that in school for such a minor offense, someone's gonna have a really, really bad day.
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

        Next time the teacher should be able to utilize some of the conflict resolution training that teachers supposedly receive.
        Maybe the teacher received little conflict training or none. Maybe the teacher tried and failed. We dunno...

        Next time the vice-principal should be able to de-escalate the situation, utilizing his training, to avoid a major conflict.
        I believe the VP tried...not all kids follow instruction or behave....obviously this one didn't.

        Next time the school resource officer should think twice about grabbing a teenage girl who is sitting in a desk.
        He was sent to remove the girl from the desk (classroom) under the South Carolina disruptive student statutes.

        Next time a cop is called in to resolve a situation with a defiant teenage girl sitting in a desk, he should try a less aggressive approach first. Another less aggressive approach second.
        The teacher tried, the vice-principal tried, and it is believed that the cop asked her to get up before he yanked her up. How much conflict resolution negotiation/talk down should take place in a classroom on the other student's and the teacher's time? I dunno. She refused to leave the desk for a good while, maybe we should just go ahead and arrest the desk too.

        Again, this was a defiant teenage girl sitting in a desk. She wasn't up in anyone's face, she wasn't being threatening, she wasn't being physical.
        She was being disruptive...when asked to leave the class by both the vice-principal and the teacher she refused. Like it or not, South Carolina law allows students to be arrested for being disruptive at school. Many don't like it, but that's the way it is. This girl was initially charged...but once the videos surfaced the charges were dropped.

        But adults, and especially professionally trained adults, are and should be held to a higher standard of conflict resolution in such minor offenses.
        Sure....and people make mistakes over the course of a career. Obviously this guy has been awarded in the past by the school district...obviously his school district award days are over now.

        If professionally trained adults can't handle a defiant teenage girl in a school desk . . . they have no business being in authority over her. Or anyone else for that matter.
        Good grief....juvenile girls are tossed from schools because they can't be handled on a daily basis. A great many good teachers and administrators can not always handle every single problem child themselves.

        My dad was a teacher and administrator.
        One of my big sisters was a school principal (and a teacher) and.another big sis of mine was the class valedictorian back in the 60's. Heck, I took my class valedictorian (also the head varsity football cheerleader) to our senior prom. :-)

        My step-dad was a cop.
        My uncle was the long time sheriff of a large county and two of his sons were city cops. Career law enforcement guys.

        I've seen the best and worst of both worlds.
        That makes you and me both.

        But if I ever saw one of my daughters treated like that in school for such a minor offense, someone's gonna have a really, really bad day.
        I don't have a problem seeing someone yanked from a desk (generally speaking) after being told to leave the class by the instructor, vice-principal, and the school resource officer (also a coach at the school and a cop). In-fact I can remember punks getting yanked from middle and high school in a sorta similar manner...some of the times it took two people to remove the student from the desk, which probably should have happened here. Then comes the long hallway drags....the students head banging on lockers etc. etc.

        As I mentioned before, I do have a problem with the kid being bowled across the floor. If it were my child...yes, I would be quite upset. One thing I will say, my neices and nephews are in high school now --> and to think all kids can be handled by peeps with very limited cookie cutter dispute and/and or conflict deescalation training is a longshot. In-fact it's impossible...even when dealing with unruly teenage girls.

        My little sister at that age is a perfect example...UNCONTROLLABLE at times. Teacher problems, admin problems, school problems, people problems, authority problems, law problems, family problems, discipline problems, and on and on and on. At that age she did the opposite of what anyone told her to do...and that's the way it was. Could I see my sister being yanked from that desk? Sure. Did my sister do some stupid stuff like this occasionally? Absolutely. Does it mean all of my sister's teachers, administrators and counselors sucked? Heck no. It meant my sister was a highly disruptive and abusive teenage child that bucked all authority and sometimes caused trouble for a period of time. Later in life we figured out what was going on with my little sis and it had nothing to do with the school staff or admins.

        Cheers

        -don
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        • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
          Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

          Maybe the teacher received little conflict training or none. Maybe the teacher tried and failed. We dunno...
          <snip>

          -don
          Face it, Don. They're a bunch of incompetent A-holes. And the cop is a violent thug.
          Signature

          Project HERE.

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  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    So...here is another example of a phone in the classroom issue....only when I watched this one I had a slew of different questions run through my head...be interested in others views...


    1. Say your a parent of this student, and you see the video...what are your initial thoughts...and what, if anything will you do next.?

    2. Say your the teacher in the video, what, if anything would you have done, or do differently?

    3. So are we at a point where we need to do something about the phones in the classroom?...if so...then what?

    My answers...

    1. My first feeling is dissapointment in my child...immediately followed by where did I go wrong. Initially angry I'd like to give the kid a taste of his own medicine, but I know that will only make him more prone to violence and just damage our relationship...however...I feel like what he did shows that we are at a point where extreme measures are necessary and since he is likely expelled from that school I would look to get him in a strict and disciplinary program...military school or similar.....a new environment...a fresh start...and away from other possible influences mischief....taking a cue from Ben Carsons mother, so to speak.

    2. Unfortunately we don't know the conversation and interaction that took place up until the video starts...I'll have a hard time being convinced that the student was justified in attacking the teacher, based on anything that happened previous...but I'm still having a hard time deciding if Id have done anything different than take the phone away, as that just seems to be what teachers typically do. Keep in mind this incident happened months before this recent cop/girl incident, so visions of cops hurling students across the floor were not in any of these participants heads. I do think its noteworthy that the teacher did not fight back...not sure if this was out of fear, or understanding that he would likely lose his job.

    3. Do we outright ban phones in public schools outright? ...no I don't think that should happen...phones are useful tools in emergency protection...and their ability to video.

    Harsher rules for phones being used during classtime?....I'm ok with this.
    More defined rules on protocol for when a student refuses to leave the classroom? ...I'm ok with this...but I think it should prioritize bringing a parent to do it not a cop.

    Just tell teachers to stuff it up their trunks and deal with the pones in the classroom...if the kid doesnt pay attention or disturbs others...let them fail....uhm...I'm almost ok with this idea...I like the idea of students standing up to fellow students and drawing a line in the sand...but will they? ...I might be willing to experiment.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

      So...here is another example of a phone in the classroom issue....only when I watched this one I had a slew of different questions run through my head...be interested in others views...

      Student Attacks Teacher over Cell Phone VIDEO Black Student Slams Teacher 62 Year old Paterson NJ - YouTube

      1. Say your a parent of this student, and you see the video...what are your initial thoughts...and what, if anything will you do next.?

      2. Say your the teacher in the video, what, if anything would you have done, or do differently?

      3. So are we at a point where we need to do something about the phones in the classroom?...if so...then what?

      My answers...

      1. My first feeling is dissapointment in my child...immediately followed by where did I go wrong. Initially angry I'd like to give the kid a taste of his own medicine, but I know that will only make him more prone to violence and just damage our relationship...however...I feel like what he did shows that we are at a point where extreme measures are necessary and since he is likely expelled from that school I would look to get him in a strict and disciplinary program...military school or similar.....a new environment...a fresh start...and away from other possible influences mischief....taking a cue from Ben Carsons mother, so to speak.

      2. Unfortunately we don't know the conversation and interaction that took place up until the video starts...I'll have a hard time being convinced that the student was justified in attacking the teacher, based on anything that happened previous...but I'm still having a hard time deciding if Id have done anything different than take the phone away, as that just seems to be what teachers typically do. Keep in mind this incident happened months before this recent cop/girl incident, so visions of cops hurling students across the floor were not in any of these participants heads. I do think its noteworthy that the teacher did not fight back...not sure if this was out of fear, or understanding that he would likely lose his job.

      3. Do we outright ban phones in public schools outright? ...no I don't think that should happen...phones are useful tools in emergency protection...and their ability to video.

      Harsher rules for phones being used during classtime?....I'm ok with this.
      More defined rules on protocol for when a student refuses to leave the classroom? ...I'm ok with this...but I think it should prioritize bringing a parent to do it not a cop.

      Just tell teachers to stuff it up their trunks and deal with the pones in the classroom...if the kid doesnt pay attention or disturbs others...let them fail....uhm...I'm almost ok with this idea...I like the idea of students standing up to fellow students and drawing a line in the sand...but will they? ...I might be willing to experiment.




      There's a difference between attacking someone & being attacked.

      The OP story of this thread shows a girl being attacked by a cop.

      Yes the door swings both ways (your video) kids are people, they sometimes screw up just like adults. I bet that teacher was afraid of jail time more than he was of some punk kid. Good thing someone got the video for court.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        I bet that teacher was afraid of jail time more than he was of some punk kid. Good thing someone got the video for court.
        The cop is lucky not to get jail time. He could have broken her neck or back or she could have had a concussion. Endangering a student didn't go so well for these two administrators who put an 8 year old out of the school in frigid temperatures and locked her out.

        Discipline at Bristol school


        Five months after the principal of a local elementary school was charged with attempted child abuse of a student, his former vice principal has now been arrested on a count of child neglect.

        Cherith Roberts, 35, was indicted on Wednesday by a Sullivan County grand jury. She turned herself in at the Sullivan County Sheriff's Office on Thursday morning, posted $7,500 bond and was released.


        The alleged incident occurred on Jan. 7 of this year at Holston View Elementary, 1840 King College Road, Bristol, Tenn. Prosecutors say Roberts was serving as vice principal at the time.


        According to Sullivan County Assistant District Attorney Julie Canter, Roberts carried out improper discipline against a student, resulting in psychological harm against the victim. Canter declined to elaborate on the incident, citing the impending prosecution of the case.


        A grand jury presentment filed in Sullivan County court states the child was less than 8-years-old, with a Bristol Tennessee police officer presenting evidence. The charge of child neglect is a Class E felony and carries a possible prison sentence of between one and six years. As a first-time offender, Roberts would face no more than two years if convicted.


        Rebecca Craddock, spokesperson for Bristol Tennessee City Schools, said that on Feb. 7 Roberts was placed on administrative leave, pending the outcome of the criminal investigation. On Aug. 26, Roberts was assigned to an administrative task role supporting the BTCS Central Office, and had no contact with students or parents.


        “We are finalizing the status of Dr. Roberts’ leave now as we were just notified of the indictment,” Craddock told the Times-News in a written statement. “Once all affected parties have been notified, we can provide additional information. The school system has been, and continues to be, fully cooperative with the authorities as they move forward with their investigation into these allegations. As always, the well-being of our students is our most important priority and one that we take very seriously.”


        Authorities learned of Roberts' alleged crime during police investigation of Jerry Poteat, former Holston View Principal. He was indicted in May by a Sullivan County grand jury on charges of attempted child abuse and neglect.


        On Jan. 25 of this year, according to Canter, Poteat locked a student out of Holston View Elementary, leaving the child outside in frigid temperatures. Poteat later pleaded not guilty and a trial was scheduled to begin this week. He has since changed attorneys, which had moved his trial to Feb. 25 of 2016.


        On Thursday, Craddock reported that Poteat remains on unpaid suspension with the school system.

        Kingsport Times-News: Discipline at Bristol school spurs indictment of second administrator
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I saw, and not sure if this is true - but saw that she was recently orphaned. No telling what is up with her, ya know.

    However -- had I been teaching that class, my instincts would have been to go sit down beside her and ask her "Sup? I know we have a problem here - but I don't understand what point you're trying to make."

    I'm no shrink, but it seems to me if someone is giving you a problem, it might help if you know why?
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I saw, and not sure if this is true - but saw that she was recently orphaned. No telling what is up with her, ya know.

      However -- had I been teaching that class, my instincts would have been to go sit down beside her and ask her "Sup? I know we have a problem here - but I don't understand what point you're trying to make."

      I'm no shrink, but it seems to me if someone is giving you a problem, it might help if you know why?
      And I would bet money that your solution would have worked. Here's what one teacher did who was creative enough to turn a bad situation around in his classroom.

      Kent Peterson resorted to comedy to defuse a bad situation.
      Peterson, an eight-year elementary school teacher, made it a point not to raise his voice at students. But one fifth-grader at Hancock Park Elementary tried Peterson's patience by standing on his chair and yelling when he got frustrated and needed attention. After one episode, "my blood pressure just started to rise, and that's never a good situation for anyone," Peterson said.


      Frustrated, Peterson thought back to his training in improvisational comedy, and got up on his chair as well. Then he asked his students if anyone else wanted to stand on their chair. The class started to giggle. The defiant boy pouted, but eventually sat down and began to pay attention.


      "The scene wasn't going well, and when that happens you throw a left turn in to liven it up," he said.


      Peterson, who taught in Los Angeles Unified School District from 2002 to 2010, began letting his students occasionally stand on their chairs to discuss their feelings and issues. Now a staff member at USC Rossier School of Education, he said he only called school security to his classroom twice during his teaching career.


      When faced with disruptions or students on cellphones, Peterson said he would try to "maintain a level of professionalism and be calm and direct." Instead of calling in administrators, he would tell students several times that they were expected to put away their phones. He would then leave the student and check in after five minutes.


      "I'd ask them if they were ready to have a conversation with me," Peterson said. "It would be quick and dirty; I wouldn't neglect my entire class for the individual. But I was trying to show them that I cared more about them than the perceived disrespect."
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post


      However -- had I been teaching that class, my instincts would have been to go sit down beside her and ask her "Sup? I know we have a problem here - but I don't understand what point you're trying to make."
      Sal you crack me up. Always staying young at heart
      Signature

      Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    When I worked with the juvenile diversion kids in Denver Public Schools, I think teachers often
    went the wrong direction with the "control the classroom" ideas. One kid was very funny and he
    would get disciplined for disrupting the classroom with his jokes. The thing, to me, was that
    his jokes were on topic - meaning he was paying attention -and I wondered if it would have
    been better to laugh for a few seconds instead of spending 10 minutes getting the class "under
    control". Talk to him later about not making it an all the time thing.
    ---
    Signature

    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Thing is - we have no idea how LONG this 'confrontation' went on...or how many ways/times the teacher tried to solve it - or how many times the Asst Principal tried to solve after he was called. All we know is what we've told about the girl - and what we saw from the officer. Anything beyond that is conjecture.

      What if her "point" was "I want to text and you can't stop me"...?

      My opinion is you skip the cop and go straight to parent/guardian to come remove the girl and they must meet with school personnel before she's allowed to come back to class. It cops are called - let the parents/guardians call them.
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
      ***
      One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
      what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Thing is - we have no idea how LONG this 'confrontation' went on...or how many ways/times the teacher tried to solve it - or how many times the Asst Principal tried to solve after he was called. All we know is what we've told about the girl - and what we saw from the officer.
        ... and child abuse is never the right answer to the problem. Cop found that out the hard way.
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  • Profile picture of the author rhondaklewis
    This happened in July. Cops Lied about what happened. !9 year old shot and killed.
    https://youtu.be/_Js2liSrePU
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    • Profile picture of the author sconer
      Originally Posted by rhondaklewis View Post

      This happened in July. Cops Lied about what happened. !9 year old shot and killed.
      https://youtu.be/_Js2liSrePU
      OMG! No way!

      I got a great idea, why don't we post every single instance of a law enforcement officer doing something wrong!
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      • Profile picture of the author rhondaklewis
        Originally Posted by sconer View Post

        OMG! No way!

        I got a great idea, why don't we post every single instance of a law enforcement officer doing something wrong!
        OMG! You mean there are more?
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  • Profile picture of the author rhondaklewis
    So she lied about A cop being the last person she would call? You know her that well?
    Things aren't getting better they are just getting recorded now. Even with video some cops get away with murder.
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    • Profile picture of the author sconer
      Originally Posted by rhondaklewis View Post

      So she lied about A cop being the last person she would call? You know her that well?
      Yes, I do, and so do you.

      The fact that you would even argue this means that you would rather be dishonest to protect a friend and a "side" of an argument than be an honest and unbiased person.
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  • Profile picture of the author bojan92
    One more way how to show police brutality , show the power that they have over somebody. Big problem that police faces right now. This is the main reason why everyone when see a cop gets beaten they laugh and they don't call any help. This is the main reason why people don't trust the police. Also one sad truth how our protector react. He should be an example not a brute. This is a sad video where you can see who protect us. I hope his kids are treated like this from the dad on this gril. This is shame upon the police force , he needs to be fired Immediately.
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    • Profile picture of the author sconer
      Originally Posted by bojan92 View Post

      One more way how to show police brutality , show the power that they have over somebody. Big problem that police faces right now. This is the main reason why everyone when see a cop gets beaten they laugh and they don't call any help. This is the main reason why people don't trust the police. Also one sad truth how our protector react. He should be an example not a brute. This is a sad video where you can see who protect us. I hope his kids are treated like this from the dad on this gril. This is shame upon the police force , he needs to be fired Immediately.
      "This is the main reason why everyone when see a cop gets beaten they laugh and they don't call any help."

      No, "everyone" doesn't laugh when they see a police officer getting beat. Only low-life animals and scum do that, most likely criminals themselves.

      It says a lot about your character that you would laugh at a man getting beat simply because of his chosen profession.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    I had a 57 year old employee refuse to put her cell phone on vibrate while working as a
    desk clerk. The local Subway does not allow employees to have their cell phones
    with them while on duty. (I think they should have them if an emergency happens - like
    a robbery at gunpoint.)
    Signature

    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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  • Profile picture of the author littlesteve
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by littlesteve View Post

      They give this kid an excessive freedom!







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        • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
          about 1,000 officers lost their badges in a six-year period for rape, sodomy and sexual assault

          The accusers just brought it on themselves.

          Just do what they say to do and you'll be fine.

          Right?
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          • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
            Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

            about 1,000 officers lost their badges in a six-year period for rape, sodomy and sexual assault

            The accusers just brought it on themselves.

            Just do what they say to do and you'll be fine.

            Right?
            There are always some individuals whose default mode is a weak-kneed worship of police. Where it comes from, I don't know. They can see graphic evidence of cops assaulting and even killing people in situations that don't warrant it. They'll instantly assume that accusers, however defenseless, brought it on themselves or are liars. They'll post inane drivel on forums and direct hostile words at anyone who points out something like, hey that cop didn't need to manhandle a little girl, or they didn't need to kill that homeless person or brutalize that autistic man. Usually police officers will be acquitted in court even with videos that show them needlessly murdering someone. Police are citizens' employees. They a supposed to be working for you, not against you.
            Signature

            Project HERE.

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            • Profile picture of the author discrat
              Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

              There are always some individuals whose default mode is a weak-kneed worship of police. Where it comes from, I don't know. The can see graphic evidence of cops assaulting and even killing people in situations that don't warrant it. They'll instantly assume that accusers, however defenseless, brought it on themselves or are liars. They'll post inane drivel on forums and direct hostile words at anyone who points out something like, hey that cop didn't need to manhandle a little girl, or they didn't need to kill that homeless person or brutalize that autistic man. Usually police officers will be acquitted in court even with videos that show them needlessly murdering someone. Police are citizens' employees. They a supposed to be working for you, not against you.
              Kelly Thomas Beat to death by Cops [Full Video] - YouTube
              I watched this video. This is not even close to being a Murder by Cops. This guy resisted and resisted over and over again. He was being very combative and was not about to comply with them. Even though he was saying " Iam sorry okay, okay " while at the same time trying to fight back. He was on drugs and totally out of it. There are better videos than this showing cops being brutal criminals.

              This is not a good example.
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              • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
                Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                I watched this video. This is not even close to being a Murder by Cops. This guy resisted and resisted over and over again. He was being very combative and was not about to comply with them.Even though he kep saying "okay, okay " while at the same time trying to fight back.
                Not even close? He died as a result of their attack. It wasn't necessary for them to beat a helpless cognitively-challenged man to death.
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                • Profile picture of the author discrat
                  Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

                  Not even close? He died as a result of their attack. It wasn't necessary for them to beat a helpless cognitively-challenged man to death.
                  He was combative as it was obvious. He was resisting over and over again. Its easy to play Monday Morning quarterback and say what the Cops should have or shouldn't have done.

                  Try being in that situation in real life with a clearly deranged person on drugs. Who clearly needs to be taking off the streets away from the public.

                  Like I said in my opinion there are much better examples of Cops being criminals than this
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                  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
                    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                    He was combative as it was obvious. He was resisting over and over again. Its easy to play Monday Morning quarterback and say what the Cops should have or shouldn't have done.

                    Try being in that situation in real life with a clearly deranged person on drugs. Who clearly needs to be taking off the streets away from the public.

                    Like I said in my opinion there are much better examples of Cops being criminals than this
                    I have been in that situation and handled in a superior way. It is probably impossible to deal with it in a more stupid and brutal manner than those police officers did.
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                    • Profile picture of the author discrat
                      Yeah I was watching it some more. That first cop was a major bully. He said something like "see my fists their about ready to f@ck you up ".

                      Looking at it again at the point it exploded the Cops acted too aggressive when he stood up. They just started swinging their clubs at him telling him to get down. They could have handled it better, definitely
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  • Profile picture of the author rhondaklewis
    I for one wanted to read dieselpros rant. I read the whole thing. I think he was spot on. Is there a rule hidden or otherwise that says you shouldn't post if don't participate to the forum often. I get why some would not want to read a long post but I don't get the you come here once a year. So what? Great post but that is just MY opinion.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by rhondaklewis View Post

      I for one wanted to read dieselpros rant. I read the whole thing. I think he was spot on. Is there a rule hidden or otherwise that says you shouldn't post if don't participate to the forum often. I get why some would not want to read a long post but I don't get the you come here once a year. So what? Great post but that is just MY opinion.
      I agree. Why was that post deleted? It's ok for Joe to post his crap over and over which plenty of us find offensive but this guy posts the opposite point of view and because it's a bit seasonedesque in being long winded it's deleted? That's bs.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        I agree. Why was that post deleted? It's ok for Joe to post his crap over and over which plenty of us find offensive but this guy posts the opposite point of view and because it's a bit seasonedesque in being long winded it's deleted? That's bs.
        He may have deleted it himself. You don't know who deleted it. The end of the post was partisan politics. That may have done it for the mods, if the mods deleted it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          He may have deleted it himself. You don't know who deleted it. The end of the post was partisan politics. That may have done it for the mods, if the mods deleted it.
          I reported the post.

          It turned into a political rant. I just suggested the mods look at it.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I reported the post.

            It turned into a political rant. I just suggested the mods look at it.
            Well, that splains it. It had turned into a political rant at the end and I had thought of reporting it also, but was just waiting to see if anyone took the bait and started turning the thread into a political debate.
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          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I reported the post.

            It turned into a political rant. I just suggested the mods look at it.
            Just wondering, Claude, have you ever reported Seasoned's or Joe's posts for the same reason? I read most of this guy's post and it was fairly relevant to the discussion, at least if you think their was a racial reason for the officer doing what he did to the orphaned 16 year old 100 pound introvert girl. It definitely was long winded and I didn't agree with all of it but he made some good points.

            By the way, I also missed why TL and Mike were banned. Anyone know?
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

              Just wondering, Claude, have you ever reported Seasoned's or Joe's posts for the same reason? I read most of this guy's post and it was fairly relevant to the discussion, at least if you think their was a racial reason for the officer doing what he did to the orphaned 16 year old 100 pound introvert girl. It definitely was long winded and I didn't agree with all of it but he made some good points.

              By the way, I also missed why TL and Mike were banned. Anyone know?
              Fair question. Although, in real life, I'd probably ignore it.

              I almost never report posts. Honesty, I don't remember most of the post, just that it had political elements, and he seemed to be ranting. I just suggested the mods look at it.

              I seem to remember just reading the last paragraph or two. I wasn't offended by it, I just thought it may have broken the rules.

              I don't report most posts that are blatantly political, because the writers on on my Ignore list.

              No idea why TL or Mike (Mike who?) were banned.
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              • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                in real life...
                This isn't real life?

                (Mike who?)
                Mike Anthony
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                  This isn't real life?
                  HA! Maybe I should have said "not in person". I may have an image of what you are like as a person, but it's fuzzy and vague.

                  In person, I'm much quieter, and guarded by what I say, because there are more direct consequences. Here, I can wear a lighter mask. There are maybe three things you know about me (that I have talked about here) that I would never discuss in person, not even with my close friends.

                  Even in the Offline Forum, I'm a different person. There, you just see my serious business side.

                  If you think about it, you probably act differently depending on who you are with. That's just a guess.



                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                  Mike Anthony
                  Well, that explains why I didn't know. Thanks.
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                  • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    There are maybe three things you know about me (that I have talked about here) that I would never discuss in person, not even with my close friends.
                    One: You wear diapers. Two: You are breast fed. Or is it you breast feed others? Three: I'm guessing it's that you met a Riffle?

                    By the way, this reminds me of a recent experience I had with a lady on a dating site. In her profile it said she likeed "adult baby play". I asked her what was that and she said it involved her treating her man like a baby and him wearing diapers. True story. I told her I got the perfect guy for her. So if you get a pm here from Ursula you know what she wants. You're welcome.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by rhondaklewis View Post

      I for one wanted to read dieselpros rant. I read the whole thing.
      No rule at all, but if you want to get your post read and responded to, it's not wise to post a 5,000 word post with few paragraph breaks on so many topics that it makes it impossible for others to really respond.

      You're probably the only one who read it all. I skimmed it and have no interest in rehashing Cosby news and some of the other topics he covered. They had their own threads and went on for many pages. Then some of it towards the end was political, which of course, is not allowed.

      So my advice was just friendly advice. I didn't call him bad names or anything.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ive-dance-off/

    What happened from there on the 200 block of K Street SW was a rather impressive dance-off between the police officer and the teen, and an example of positive community policing at a time when national attention is focused on discriminatory and abusive police tactics.

    The onlooking teens caught the dance battle on their cell phones while a song by rapper Dlow played in the background. [Dancing cop vs. abusive cop: One defused a defiant teen. The other got fired.]
    “Instead of us fighting, she tried to turn it around and make it something fun,” Taylor said. “I never expected cops to be that cool. There are some good cops.”

    Taylor said the officer told the group that if the teens won the dance-off, they could stay. If the officer won, they would have to leave.

    The two danced for a few minutes face-to-face — stanky leg and all — and Taylor said the officer would have kept going, but she got tired. Both Taylor and the officer declared themselves the victors, hugged and everyone left the area.



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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Is there a rule hidden or otherwise that says you shouldn't post if don't participate to the forum often.
      You know the rules - what the mods say, goes.

      If you read all of that rant (which covered several years of news stories with an extremely biased view of each one) - good for you. You know what it said so doesn't matter if it's saved to posterity.

      These are "news items" - not personal vendettas. At least they shouldn't be that on a marketing forum.
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      • Profile picture of the author rhondaklewis
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        You know the rules - what the mods say, goes.

        If you read all of that rant (which covered several years of news stories with an extremely biased view of each one) - good for you. You know what it said so doesn't matter if it's saved to posterity.

        These are "news items" - not personal vendettas. At least they shouldn't be that on a marketing forum.
        But you seemed to have had a problem with his infrequency of posting not the content.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Whatever - my comments were made to him and yes - I thought the rant was a bit much for someone who avoid this place most of the time.

          Not sure why you are concerned with what I said to someone else but it's what I thought - so what I said.
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    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      You want to be a cop, you must score low on intelligence, but have dancing or singing skills. LOL
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

        You want to be a cop, you must score low on intelligence, but have dancing or singing skills. LOL
        To be absolutely fair, they didn't say score low in tests. They want average. Not significantly above average.

        Those videos show that there is a human side to cops and that some cops have a sense of humor, but more importantly, are a positive presence in their communities. Also shows in the case of the first link, how a cop turned a "situation" into "not a big deal" and easily diffused the tensions and everyone went away happy .... and no one got hurt in the process. The kids involved in that probably gained a little different perspective on cops.
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        • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          To be absolutely fair, they didn't say score low in tests. They want average. Not significantly above average. <snip>.
          Maybe so, but I'd have to see some compelling evidence that it's a bad idea to hire prospects who score high in iq tests (whatever they measure). That whole story is bizarre. I wonder if there could have been another hidden reason not to hire the man who filed the lawsuit. I confess that I post a link to that news item from time to time because I find it funny. Average is actually quite smart but there aren't IQ test score ceilings for criminals LOL.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

            Maybe so, but I'd have to see some compelling evidence that it's a bad idea to hire prospects who score high in iq tests (whatever they measure). That whole story is bizarre. I wonder if there could have been another hidden reason not to hire the man who filed the lawsuit. I confess that I post a link to that news item from time to time because I find it funny. Average is actually quite smart but there aren't IQ test score ceilings for criminals LOL.
            I completely agree that it is unfair to penalize a prospect because of an exceptional IQ and I would think that some very bright individuals should be desired in police work.

            The logic for doing that is flawed. Wouldn't the brightest cops go on to be the brightest investigators rather than a cop who just responds to ordinary calls, does traffic stops, etc.?
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              The logic for doing that is flawed. Wouldn't the brightest cops go on to be the brightest investigators rather than a cop who just responds to ordinary calls, does traffic stops, etc.?
              I don't know about cops. But there is real evidence that people with IQs over about 135-140 have a problem getting along as well with fellow workers. Most CEOs don't have an IQ higher than that either.

              Being brighter helps in many way, but an exceptional IQ tends to separate you from the pack. Communication suffers.
              I'm not talking about myself, obviously.


              I really do miss Riffle. He would have just replied, "Obviously". and then I'd be happy.
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              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                Being brighter helps in many way, but an exceptional IQ tends to separate you from the pack. Communication suffers.
                Is that why I'm oftentimes referred to as, Big Frank - The Lone Wolf?

                Cheers. - Frank
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                  Is that why I'm oftentimes referred to as, Big Frank - The Lone Wolf?

                  Cheers. - Frank
                  No, you are called Big Frank-The Lone Wolf, because you sleep outside and smell like wet dog.


                  Funny, though.
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                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    No, you are called Big Frank-The Lone Wolf, because you sleep outside and smell like wet dog.


                    Funny, though.
                    You made me laugh. Proof that there really is a first time for everything. :-)

                    Cheers. - Frank
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                  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    No, you are called Big Frank-The Lone Wolf, because you sleep outside and smell like wet dog.


                    Funny, though.
                    You reminded me of a TripAdvisor review response by a nearby hotel owner.

                    The customer wrote that he slept like a baby. The owner replied: "Slept like a baby.
                    You mean you woke up every couple of hours crying for food?" True event.


                    Dan
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                    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                      You reminded me of a TripAdvisor review response by a nearby hotel owner.

                      The customer wrote that he slept like a baby. The owner replied: "Slept like a baby.
                      You mean you woke up every couple of hours crying for food?" True event.


                      Dan
                      I do sleep like a baby. When I awaken there's a smelly load in my undies!

                      Cheers. - Frank
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                        I do sleep like a baby. When I awaken there's a smelly load in my undies!

                        Cheers. - Frank
                        Not just when you awaken. There is also one when you got to sleep, eat, dress...type...

                        Be honest, you have one right now.
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                      • Profile picture of the author discrat
                        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                        I do sleep like a baby. When I awaken there's a smelly load in my undies!

                        Cheers. - Frank
                        Just because your nearing 70 does not give you a right to be Vile
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                        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                          Just because your nearing 70 does not give you a right to be Vile
                          The right to be vile is a birthright. I just choose to exercise it more frequently as I get closer to death.

                          Cheers. - Frank
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I don't know about cops. But there is real evidence that people with IQs over about 135-140 have a problem getting along as well with fellow workers. Most CEOs don't have an IQ higher than that either.

                Being brighter helps in many way, but an exceptional IQ tends to separate you from the pack. Communication suffers.
                I'm not talking about myself, obviously.


                I really do miss Riffle. He would have just replied, "Obviously". and then I'd be happy.
                Obviously. lol

                Ok, now that I've made you happy, yes, I do agree that those with a real high IQ can be problematic in the work environment. Sense of superiority and too much of a sense of "I know as much or more than you do" with their superiors, which isn't going to fly most of the time or ever really.
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                • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  Obviously. lol

                  Ok, now that I've made you happy, yes, I do agree that those with a real high IQ can be problematic in the work environment. Sense of superiority and too much of a sense of "I know as much or more than you do" with their superiors, which isn't going to fly most of the time or ever really.
                  I'm glad you used "can be" as not all of those with higher IQ's consider themselves superior to others, in fact, I'd go so far as to say only those that have labels in other genres as well, such as "arseholery". LOL!

                  I'd even go so far as to say, I find the most annoying "I know as much or more than you do" crowd to be those of the lower IQ bracket. You know, those annoying "know-it-alls" that really don't know jack, they just think they do.


                  Terra
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                  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
                    Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                    I'm glad you used "can be" as not all of those with higher IQ's consider themselves superior to others, in fact, I'd go so far as to say only those that have labels in other genres as well, such as "arseholery". LOL!

                    I'd even go so far as to say, I find the most annoying "I know as much or more than you do" crowd to be those of the lower IQ bracket. You know, those annoying "know-it-alls" that really don't know jack, they just think they do.


                    Terra
                    I would have to say that almost everyone I've known with an IQ closer to 200 than 100 was actually pleasant and humble.
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                    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

                      I would have to say that almost everyone I've known with an IQ closer to 200 than 100 was actually pleasant and humble.
                      I can't help but concur with your concurrence, lol!


                      Terra
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

                      I would have to say that almost everyone I've known with an IQ closer to 200 than 100 was actually pleasant and humble.
                      Of course, of course. It's not that they are bad people. Obviously they are superior in the way they think and process information.

                      but when making decisions with them, they think in a different way. They see things we miss. They may be able to see a clearer path. And constantly explaining their thoughts can get to them.

                      But socially? The ones I've met were fascinating. And high IQ has little to do with social skills. They often go together, but they aren't the same thing. A high IQ also doesn't make the person want to dominate the conversation, or the workplace.

                      Or so I've heard.
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                      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        <snip>

                        But socially? The ones I've met were fascinating. And high IQ has little to do with social skills. <snip>
                        Idea for T-Shirt:
                        Be Nice.
                        Socially Inept = Brilliant
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                        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                          Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

                          Idea for T-Shirt:
                          Be Nice.
                          Socially Inept = Brilliant
                          LOL!

                          Haven't you ever wondered why when someone gets hurt, they say, "Oh! That smarts!" (A sharp, stinging pain)

                          I've never been able to figure that one out.

                          Perhaps it's the "sharp" part of the definition. That's all I've got.

                          But I'll pass on the t-shirt. I've been called a social butterfly my whole life. My favorite thing to do is converse. But I always chalked that one up to being female, hahahaha!

                          But you can still be nice.


                          Terra
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                          • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
                            Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                            LOL!

                            Haven't you ever wondered why when someone gets hurt, they say, "Oh! That smarts!" (A sharp, stinging pain)

                            I've never been able to figure that one out.

                            Perhaps it's the "sharp" part of the definition. That's all I've got.

                            But I'll pass on the t-shirt. I've been called a social butterfly my whole life. My favorite thing to do is converse. But I always chalked that one up to being female, hahahaha!

                            But you can still be nice.


                            Terra
                            Like my son. The t-shirt wouldn't work for him either. He's quite the social butterfly. I'm not. I could design a t-shirt for myself, however.
                            Be Nice.
                            Socially Inept = (Oh, never mind. Carry on)
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                            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                              Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

                              Like my son. The t-shirt wouldn't work for him either. He's quite the social butterfly. I'm not. I could design a t-shirt for myself, however.
                              Be Nice.
                              Socially Inept = (Oh, never mind. Carry on)
                              Here's my t-shirt design for you.

                              Be Nice...
                              Because Terra Said So!

                              LOL!


                              Terra
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                              • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
                                Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                                Here's my t-shirt design for you.

                                Be Nice...
                                Because Terra Said So!

                                LOL!


                                Terra
                                That'll get a lot of people Googling "Terra" on their smart phones as they pass by on the sidewalk LOL. They'll discover the Latin definition and ponder what it all means -- a message about Mother Nature, a reference to Star Trek, what?
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                                • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                                  Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

                                  That'll get a lot of people Googling "Terra" on their smart phones as they pass by on the sidewalk LOL. They'll discover the Latin definition and ponder what it all means -- a message about Mother Nature, a reference to Star Trek, what?
                                  Welllll, you don't want to mess with any Terra.LOL
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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

                      I would have to say that almost everyone I've known with an IQ closer to 200 than 100 was actually pleasant and humble.
                      I've known a lot of very bright people but don't know their IQs. It's not a fact that a lot of people just throw around unless they are NOT very humble. lol.

                      That being said, all of the bright people I know have jobs and have always had jobs and only leave those jobs for better jobs, so somebody hires them.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                        I've known a lot of very bright people but don't know their IQs. It's not a fact that a lot of people just throw around unless they are NOT very humble. lol.

                        That being said, all of the bright people I know have jobs and have always had jobs and only leave those jobs for better jobs, so somebody hires them.
                        You are talking about very bright people. But a genius is a different matter.

                        Bright people are intelligent, but their "brightness" also comes from social skills, and language skills. Otherwise, we would never see them as bright.

                        I've only know a few geniuses. But from what I've read, they run the gamut from lowly laborer to computer programmer. They also tend to gravitate to fields where their genius fits in. Science and engineering soak up a lot of the genius population. And some geniuses simply aren't part of society. They work dead end jobs, and avoid much social interaction.

                        And the term genius sometimes means a highly a specialized aptitude. For example, you are a genius in; Music, art, memory, mathematical calculations, recognizing patterns, etc.

                        I don't even know if a well rounded, "Genius in every area" exists . I wonder what they would be like?

                        But people that are thought of as "very bright", are generally very well rounded, and have strong social skills, as well as intelligence.

                        Can you imagine being a normal person, but everyone else in the world sounded like a 5 year old to you? What kind of life would that be?
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          Can you imagine being a normal person?
                          Short answer, No.

                          But I found this in wikipedia. A couple of interesting things.

                          IQ and genius

                          The Terman longitudinal study in California eventually provided historical evidence regarding how genius is related to IQ scores.[25] Many California pupils were recommended for the study by schoolteachers. Two pupils who were tested but rejected for inclusion in the study (because their IQ scores were too low) grew up to be Nobel Prize winners in physics, William Shockley,[26][27] and Luis Walter Alvarez.[28][29]

                          Based on the historical findings of the Terman study and on biographical examples such as Richard Feynman, who had an IQ of 125 and went on to win the Nobel Prize in physics and become widely known as a genius,[30][31] the current view of psychologists and other scholars of genius is that a minimum level of IQ (approximately 125) is necessary for genius but not sufficient, and must be combined with personality characteristics such as drive and persistence, plus the necessary opportunities for talent development
                          And this:

                          A genius is a person who displays exceptional intellectual ability, creativity, or originality, typically to a degree that is associated with the achievement of new advances in a domain of knowledge. A scholar in many subjects or a scholar in a single subject may be referred to as a genius.[1] There is no scientifically precise definition of genius, and the question of whether the notion itself has any real meaning has long been a subject of debate, although psychologists are converging on a definition that emphasizes creativity and eminent achievement.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                            I don't even know if a well rounded, "Genius in every area" exists . I wonder what they would be like?
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                        • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          Can you imagine being a normal person, but everyone else in the world sounded like a 5 year old to you?
                          I know what you're trying to say, now go back to playing with your toys.
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                      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                        I've known a lot of very bright people but don't know their IQs. It's not a fact that a lot of people just throw around unless they are NOT very humble. lol.

                        That being said, all of the bright people I know have jobs and have always had jobs and only leave those jobs for better jobs, so somebody hires them.
                        It has tended to be others throwing the number around. They're usually embarrassed by it.

                        "People who boast about their IQ are losers."
                        Stephen Hawking

                        Of course there are Chris Langan types with astronomical IQs who frequently broadcast it. Maybe he's a nice enough guy in person, I don't know, but I find he comes across as abrasive and arrogant and downright stupid at times. He seems to have slipped back into the woodwork, so maybe even he got sick of that nonsense too. He worked as a bouncer for 20 years LOL, now trains horses it seems. Boasting about IQ probably reflects mental torment rather than intelligence. In his case, he was extensively abused as a child by his stepfather.
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                        • Profile picture of the author discrat
                          I have found out that most really bright people know they are bright and love to show off that "brightness". Not necessarily in a hauty tauty in you face kind of show off.

                          But for instance there are a number of very bright people in here that I have run into. And boy they love to make sure that you know that.

                          However, I have a strong suspicion they are NOT on a genius level . Actually, I would be inclined to bet they are not.

                          I consider myself and others like Claude to be pretty bright.

                          However, us two along with nearly the rest of us ( at least the ones I have run into) are more than likely NOT 'geniuses'. That's not a slight either. Just a measurable fact thru observation.

                          The closest one that I have come into contact here that may rival that genius level would be Paul Myers. But honestly I can say that's about it for me. I have not run into anyone else here that strikes a chord with me as far as being on that level

                          Usually geniuses make themselves known almost in an accidental and very subtle way when you least expect it. To them their genius level seems normal so there is little motivation to flaunt it.

                          That is usually how they operate. The ones who seem to go out of their way and force their self professed "superior intellect" on you are not on a genius IQ level ( more than likely, at least from my experience)
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                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                            However, us two along with nearly the rest of us ( at least the ones I have run into) are more than likely NOT 'geniuses'. That's not a slight either. Just a measurable fact thru observation.

                            The closest one that I have come into contact here that may rival that genius level would be Paul Myers.
                            Robert;
                            You have given me another opening to talk about myself...and for that, I thank you. (Nobody else does. Ha! Beat you all to it! )

                            I don't know if Paul Myers is a genius. But he may be the most rational and fair minded person I've ever "met". But that isn't a sign of genius, just well structured thinking.

                            Genius isn't something you apply to everything. For example, I took two IQ tests that showed an IQ of about 180, in the area of seeing patterns and matching 3D geometric shapes. Every other area I was tested in was slightly below normal.

                            So, Am I a genius? No. Not even close. It would take a very specific test to bring it out. And it isn't in real life.

                            I had a friend that was a genius. He still lived alone at 50, and made a meager living selling cleaning supplies to theaters and bars. He also taught fencing.

                            We would sit in a bar, while he talked about organic chemistry, physics, evolutionary biology. He always lost me. And his jokes took everything I had to even get.

                            He would make a statement, and I would say, "Where the heck did you get that?"
                            And then he would explain the three steps in logic that I completely missed.

                            He didn't mean to do it, but he kept losing people in conversations. It was just hard to keep up.
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                            • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                              Robert;
                              You have given me another opening to talk about myself...and for that, I thank you. (Nobody else does. Ha! Beat you all to it! )

                              I don't know if Paul Myers is a genius. But he may be the most rational and fair minded person I've ever "met". But that isn't a sign of genius, just well structured thinking.

                              Genius isn't something you apply to everything. For example, I took two IQ tests that showed an IQ of about 180, in the area of seeing patterns and matching 3D geometric shapes. Every other area I was tested in was slightly below normal.

                              So, Am I a genius? No. Not even close. It would take a very specific test to bring it out. And it isn't in real life.

                              I had a friend that was a genius. He still lived alone at 50, and made a meager living selling cleaning supplies to theaters and bars. He also taught fencing.

                              We would sit in a bar, while he talked about organic chemistry, physics, evolutionary biology. He always lost me. And his jokes took everything I had to even get.

                              He would make a statement, and I would say, "Where the heck did you get that?"
                              And then he would explain the three steps in logic that I completely missed.

                              He didn't mean to do it, but he kept losing people in conversations. It was just hard to keep up
                              .
                              If a "genius" can't speak in a way that people understand ...
                              Is he really a genius? I think not.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                                If a "genius" can't speak in a way that people understand ...
                                Is he really a genius? I think not.
                                Yes. Patience isn't an attribute of genius....And many don't blend in well. He was impatient. He only explained his thinking to me, because we were friends, and I'm relatively bright myself.

                                And he almost never talked about deep subjects in public. And never with women. He told me (and I saw it for myself) that he would be able to keep a girlfriend as long as he didn't try to talk about a field of expertise. But his trying to appear "normal" eventually gave way to him, trying to explain an idea....and he would look like an insufferable jerk. One thing he didn't learn while I knew him, was that brilliant women also like dating.

                                I tried to teach him how to avoid in depth conversations, and keep it light. And he could, but eventually someone would ask him a question about science, and then argue with him.

                                He had few friends. I was honored to be one of them. And his fencing was so good, he and I would compare fencing principles to Kung Fu principles for hours. It was about the only time I could really hold my own with him.

                                We never talked about sales, because it wasn't an interest of his.

                                He went with me on a few sales calls. Afterwards, we would get a beer, and he would think about what he saw me do. His analysis was almost as good as yours or mine, just deciphering the reasons why I said what I said.
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                            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                              Robert;
                              You have given me another opening to talk about myself...and for that, I thank you. (Nobody else does. Ha! Beat you all to it! )

                              I don't know if Paul Myers is a genius. But he may be the most rational and fair minded person I've ever "met". But that isn't a sign of genius, just well structured thinking.

                              Genius isn't something you apply to everything. For example, I took two IQ tests that showed an IQ of about 180, in the area of seeing patterns and matching 3D geometric shapes. Every other area I was tested in was slightly below normal.

                              So, Am I a genius? No. Not even close. It would take a very specific test to bring it out. And it isn't in real life.

                              I had a friend that was a genius. He still lived alone at 50, and made a meager living selling cleaning supplies to theaters and bars. He also taught fencing.

                              We would sit in a bar, while he talked about organic chemistry, physics, evolutionary biology. He always lost me. And his jokes took everything I had to even get.

                              He would make a statement, and I would say, "Where the heck did you get that?"
                              And then he would explain the three steps in logic that I completely missed.

                              He didn't mean to do it, but he kept losing people in conversations. It was just hard to keep up.
                              You would think schools would get kids to take regular IQ tests in different area's as well as exams. A lot of exams require you to have just a good memory. The child could just have a poor memory for facts or simply not be interested in a subject. There genius could be an on the fly thing and then forgotten, they don't write it down as they see an insight as just a passing thought. Determining if a child has an amazing aptitude in certain areas could be more productive than exams as you could then nurture that area of genius.

                              Perhaps then, so many people who slip through the cracks could be avoided as their possible career paths could be suggested to them early on.

                              Vangellis, (a contemporary keyboard composer) produced many good instrumental melodies and film scores in his life, however, he created many more than he put out but just simply forgot them. If he had recorded everything or wrote it down we would have a lot more good stuff from him.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                You would think schools would get kids to take regular IQ tests in different area's as well as exams. A lot of exams require you to have just a good memory. .
                                When I was a kid, IQ tests meant more than they do now. If I remember correctly, they were questions that involved problem solving, more than memory. But I also remember needing to have a good vocabulary to understand the questions, and references.

                                Tests in school require a working memory, but also an interest in the subject, or at least an interest in getting a good grade.
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                                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                  When I was a kid, IQ tests meant more than they do now. If I remember correctly, they were questions that involved problem solving, more than memory. But I also remember needing to have a good vocabulary to understand the questions, and references.

                                  Tests in school require a working memory, but also an interest in the subject, or at least an interest in getting a good grade.
                                  So did the schools ever act on those IQ tests, probably not. Even in exams it would be possible to determine these days (thanks to the puter) if the questions on say geometry in maths were all correct while the rest of the scores were average then that would be flagged. I doubt years ago with hand marking (and perhaps still now) they had time to dissect that. Do your math exams on a screen, instant stats. OK grasp of general Maths, outstanding grasp of geometry, go from there.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                    So did the schools ever act on those IQ tests, probably not. Even in exams it would be possible to determine these days (thanks to the puter) if the questions on say geometry in maths were all correct while the rest of the scores were average then that would be flagged. I doubt years ago with hand marking (and perhaps still now) they had time to dissect that. Do your math exams on a screen, instant stats. OK grasp of general Maths, outstanding grasp of geometry, go from there.
                                    Not sure about all that. I went through my school years with blinders on.

                                    I do remember talking to a guidance counselor a couple of times, and getting tested to see if I was autistic. (or whatever they called it then)
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                                    • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                                      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

                                      Tellya, right now I'd pay to be the intellectual equal of my own dinner.

                                      Your wish is my command. That'll be $5 please.

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                                      • Profile picture of the author yukon
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                                        Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                                        Your wish is my command. That'll be $5 please.


                                        Is that a dead beet?
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                                        • Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                                          Is that a dead beet?
                                          Sure was last night, tellya.

                                          An' hey, thx for the goobertuber illo, Pozzo.

                                          I'm collectin' these for the shrine my stalker got in his basement.
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                                          • Oh yeah, was gonna say: agree mebbe we should drop this thread.

                                            I ain't been followin', an I chipped in last night thinkin' I'd say sumthin' about how the cop an' the kid really touched a nerve an' generated a thread runnin' on an' round in thoughtful convolutions.

                                            But when I got here, the discussion had morphed, an' if we don't watch out, it's gonna morph again an' suck in every known topic like Wikipedia.

                                            These things happen on the internet.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                      <snip>
                                      I do remember talking to a guidance counselor a couple of times, and getting tested to see if I was autistic. (or whatever they called it then)
                                      Whatever term-du-jour helps Ritalin sales. You probably would have been seen as hopeless -- just not a good prospect for pharmaceutical commissions.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                        Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

                                        Whatever term-du-jour helps Ritalin sales. You probably would have been seen as hopeless -- just not a good prospect for pharmaceutical commissions.
                                        I'm not sure Ritalin was a thing back then. I did take something for epilepsy though. A real thunderstorm in that young brain of mine.
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              • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I don't know about cops. But there is real evidence that people with IQs over about 135-140 have a problem getting along as well with fellow workers. Most CEOs don't have an IQ higher than that either.<snip>
                That's interesting. There is definitely a link between high a-hole-Q and arrogance.
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  • Profile picture of the author rhondaklewis
    Is that a rule also? You can't respond to a post if that person is not talking to you. If so everyone has been breaking that rule. I responded because what you said bothered me. It seemed kind of mean spirited. So like most people on this forum when a post is of interest to me I respond.
    But you know "whatever"
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by rhondaklewis View Post

      Is that a rule also? You can't respond to a post if that person is not talking to you. If so everyone has been breaking that rule. I responded because what you said bothered me. It seemed kind of mean spirited. So like most people on this forum when a post is of interest to me I respond.
      But you know "whatever"


      I'm sorry, did I miss something?


      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author rhondaklewis
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        I'm sorry, did I miss something?


        Terra
        Sorry I forgot to use quotes for posr#411
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by rhondaklewis View Post

          Sorry I forgot to use quotes for posr#411
          Oh, lol!

          Thanks for the clarification.


          Terra
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  • Tellya, right now I'd pay to be the intellectual equal of my own dinner.

    Tagliatelle, ur so brain-like when ur heaped up in a bowl, an' ur gonna knit yrself inside my sleepy head an' grow big for tomorrow or I'm f*cked.

    Deal?
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    Must be about time to wrap this thread up and move on I think.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Has this thread been beet to death?
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Has this thread been beet to death?
      I'm sure another good line or two will turnip.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    ^^^^
    There's one.
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  • Profile picture of the author kocher79
    That's horrible
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