Time Travel.

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I will not delete this post, I promise.

I was thinking about time travel the other day. I think I was watching a time travel movie, and wondered why nobody ever brought this up.

When you travel through time, in a time machine...you are simply speeding up time in one location or reversing time, in the same location. In the time machine stories I've read, and the time travel movies I've seen, the time traveler moves through time, but not through space.

Here is the problem with that.

We are not stationary in space.

If you just take the Earth's rotation, moving forward in time a minute, you would end up 16.666 miles from where you started. Why? Because the Earth rotates about 1,000 miles an hour. If you went through time an hour, you would end up 1,000 miles away from where you started.
But that isn't your big problem. The big problem is that the Earth moves through space very quickly. In fact, the Earth is revolving around our sun at about 67,000 miles an hour.

So, if you traveled in time more than a second, you would end up either in the Earth's core...or in space. But it gets worse.

The Sun isn't sitting still either. The Sun is spinning though our galaxy at about 490,000 miles an hour. It's orbit isn't exact. And of course, our galaxy is traveling through space at a very leisurely (for a galaxy) 1,000 miles a second. So, in a very real way, the Earth will never occupy the same space twice. Ever.

It's not that you are moving. You are staying in exactly the same place. But literally everything is moving away from you at a pretty fast clip. You would not be able to travel through time at all, and stay on the surface of the Earth.

There is one consolation prize though. If you actually intended to travel to the specific planet that would be right here, in 1,000 years...you could take a time machine 1,000 years into the future..and Viola! you would be there. But you'd never be a able to get back.

In this example, I assumed that the time machine doesn't also travel in space at the precise speed and direction it needs to go, to always maintain your exact position on Earth. But I suppose that's as likely as time travel itself. I was using the time travel of fiction. And in all the stories I've read, the time traveler stays where they left. At least the science fiction stories. The romance novels where it's all a dream, don't count. (at least not to me)

I know...I know.....hyper drive this....String theory that...parallel universes the other thing....But I thought I would mention the whole "We'll never be in the same place again...ever" thing.

Oh, while I'm at it, if you could turn invisible, you would be blind. If light passes through you, or moves around you, your retinas wouldn't collect light. You would be blind. Not that much fun.

Anyway, I'm just trying to waste time until FARGO is on.

If someone mentions that space itself is expanding, that's very true. But these are the speeds and movements inside the space, as it expands. The space itself is moving at an additional speed, than the speeds I mentioned. No idea how fast that is. But that speed wouldn't affect the motions I was talking about.
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre I was thinking about time travel the other day. I think I was watching a time travel movie, and wondered why nobody ever brought this up. .
It's because when we smart people watch a time travel movie, we know it's called science FICTON for a reason.
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•  Originally Posted by Kurt It's because when we smart people watch a time travel movie, we know it's called science FICTON for a reason.

I'm treating it as fiction. But real laws of physics can be applied to fiction. And an understanding of those laws can make the science fiction more of a fantasy.

It was just a thought experiment.

 Originally Posted by kenmichaels uhhmm... what about that little thing called gravity?
What about it? Do you mean that because of gravity, we would just stay in one place?

Well, at the risk of turning this fictional idea into real science...

The mass of the time machine would be spread out over the duration of the time traveled. If you are in a time machine for one minute, but traveled a year into the future, your time machine would have almost no density. It's because you would be spreading your mass...one minute of mass..., over an entire year. Your density, per second, would be almost nothing. You wouldn't be affected by gravity. That is assuming that time is another unit of measure, which it is.

Another example would be, if you are traveling rapidly through time, you wouldn't appear to the people looking at you..at any specific time. And if they fired a bullet at you (or where you were), it would pass through empty air, because such a very small amount of you is there in any single moment.
That's why (even in the science fiction books) you aren't traveling into the future, looking like a statue for centuries.

 Originally Posted by whateverpedia To end up in Perth at a past or future date, a complex calculation would need to be done to determine exactly what time Perth occupied exactly the same space. Such a calculation is possible, however that might not be a time I actually wanted to visit.
And that is assuming that the Earth rotates, but doesn't travel through space....or that the sun doesn't travel through space. Do you see what I mean? You would never get to Perth. You would end up in outer space...where the Earth was, at the time you left.

Remember, our Sun is traveling half a million miles an hour, and taking us right along with it. Travel ten minutes into the future (or the past) and you are in outer space.
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre I'm treating it as fiction. But real laws of physics can be applied to fiction. And an understanding of those laws can make the science fiction more of a fantasy. It was just a thought experiment. What about it? How would it affect where you are?
Well ... seems to me gravity is a constant...regardless of what time you are in.
If it holds you in place now ... why would moving forward or back in time
change anything?
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre I'm treating it as fiction. But real laws of physics can be applied to fiction. And an understanding of those laws can make the science fiction more of a fantasy. It was just a thought experiment.

And when writing fiction, there's something called "embellishment", not to mention because you apply something to fiction doesn't mean the writer did too.

However, I would assume that if we have the ability to travel in time through high velocity, and not some type of time warp or worm hole, we would also be able to calibrate the differences of any destinations' movement through space as well.

We did pretty well recently calibrating where Pluto would be, it's possible that if we become advanced enough for time travel, we'll be able to make similar calculations to allow for time travel that not only takes us to another time, but also to a chosen location. I'd hazard a guess that calculating the "location" would be easier than the time travel part.
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•  Originally Posted by Kurt However, I would assume that if we have the ability to travel in time through high velocity, and not some type of time warp or worm hole, we would also be able to calibrate the differences of any destinations' movement through space as well.
Okey Dokey. I agree.

In the stories I have read, this has never been the case. But if you were talking about a real time machine, it would seem that doing the math to keep you at the same spot on Earth, and having the method to continuously travel there...would be easier to figure out, than actually how to travel through time.

My point was that I've never seen that movement of the Earth through space, as a problem in any of the books or movies with time travel. And it just stood out to me as a major problem.

OK, it's nearly 2AM.
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre Okey Dokey. I agree. In the stories I have read, this has never been the case. But if you were talking about a real time machine, it would seem that doing the math to keep you at the same spot on Earth, and having the method to continuously travel there...would be easier to figure out, than actually how to travel through time. My point was that I've never seen that movement of the Earth through space, as a problem in any of the books or movies with time travel. And it just stood out to me as a major problem. OK, it's nearly 2AM.
It's nearly 12 AM here, two hours earlier...Did I just time travel 2 hours into the past or you 2 hours into the future?
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre Okey Dokey. I agree. In the stories I have read, this has never been the case. But if you were talking about a real time machine, it would seem that doing the math to keep you at the same spot on Earth, and having the method to continuously travel there...would be easier to figure out, than actually how to travel through time. My point was that I've never seen that movement of the Earth through space, as a problem in any of the books or movies with time travel. And it just stood out to me as a major problem. OK, it's nearly 2AM.
BTW, if you use a souped-up phone booth like Bill and Ted, along with the expertise of Rufus, you can not only go back in time, you can also travel to various locations. Excellent!
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre OK, it's nearly 2AM.
K, guys. Sounds like Claude has shuffled off to bed.

In his own sweet way, he is now a time machine.

When he hits the sack, he'll be there till mornin', occupyin' the same space as he travels thru time.

So I say we move his bed downstairs in the night, set him in front of his fireplace, or out on the drive.

If we hire a truck we can mebbe drive him outta Wooster.

Alternatively, we could jus' move all his stuff around an' populate the place with 2021 calendars after sprayin' fako spiderweb in his hair.
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 Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre The mass of the time machine would be spread out over the duration of the time traveled.

Unless you use the Alcubierre drive theory...

 In 1994, Alcubierre proposed a method for changing the geometry of space by creating a wave that would cause the fabric of space ahead of a spacecraft to contract and the space behind it to expand. The ship would then ride this wave inside a region of flat space, known as a warp bubble, and would not move within this bubble but instead be carried along as the region itself moves due to the actions of the drive. It was thought to use too much negative energy until Harold Sonny White said that the amount of energy required could be reduced if the warp bubble were changed into a warp ring.
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•  Originally Posted by yukon Unless you use the Alcubierre drive theory...
No. That's a way to travel through space, but not through time (except at our regular rate). And, as I mentioned before, we would be in the same space, even if that space were moving.(expanding or contracting). The speed and direction of the planets, stars, galaxy...would remain the same..in that space.

You are talking about warping a small area of space to move faster in your ship. But it isn't traveling through time.
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 Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre No. That's a way to travel through space, but not through time (except at our regular rate). And, as I mentioned before, we would be in the same space, even if that space were moving.(expanding or contracting). The speed and direction of the planets, stars, galaxy...would remain the same..in that space. You are talking about warping a small area of space to move faster in your ship. But it isn't traveling through time.

Is this really happening?

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Nah, it is his chip in the brain l tell you, immediate surgery!

This isnt' really a dilemma since the Earth produces its own space/time dilation or warp while moving through space, so any artificial construct will in effect, be carried or piggybacked by this larger effect.

So, go back 10 seconds and the space wouldn't change, but time which is a manifestation of space/time and gravity would!

Since the first astranuats who went to the moon, travelled fast enough to get back to earth one second ahead of time, from when they left off, time doens't move your relative position in space, since space and time and interconnected.

No, l don't mess around with this as a hobby, Trans Dimensional warp coils are more my thing?

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• Hmm... I flunked the space cadet program so I guess, okay... In the land of the blind, the one-eyed jack is king.

[Edit: It's not a dick joke.]
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• Banned
An excellent example of the term, 'Way too much time on your hands.' Do you see what I did, there? :-)

Cheers. - Frank
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 Originally Posted by BigFrank An excellent example of the term, 'Way too much time on your hands.' Do you see what I did, there? :-) Cheers. - Frank

He gives a whole new meaning to manning the vacuum cleaner.
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 Originally Posted by yukon He gives a whole new meaning to manning the vacuum cleaner.
Get real. Claude doesn't give meaning to anything. Well, possibly the term vapid - or banal.

Cheers. - Frank
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•  Originally Posted by BigFrank Get real. Claude doesn't give meaning to anything. Well, possibly the term vapid - or banal. Cheers. - Frank
You forgot insufferable. Pompous is also acceptable.

On our first date, my wife called me narrow minded. I knew right then, we were a match.

That wasn't a joke.
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 Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre You forgot insufferable. Pompous is also acceptable.
Didn't forget anything. Those were tattooed on your ass, at birth.

Cheers. - Frank
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•  Originally Posted by BigFrank Didn't forget anything. Those were tattooed on your ass, at birth. Cheers. - Frank
The fact that you were looking at my ass, when I was a baby....is disturbing. Stimulating...but disturbing.
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 Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre The fact that you were looking at my ass, when I was a baby....is disturbing.
It was quite disturbing . . . . . . . for me. You loved the attention. That's probably why they find you walking bare-ass in your neighborhood. Trying to recreate a long lost feeling.

Cheers. - Frank
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•  Originally Posted by BigFrank It was quite disturbing . . . . . . . for me. You loved the attention. That's probably why they find you walking bare-ass in your neighborhood. Trying to recreate a long lost feeling. Cheers. - Frank
That's true. I seem to have lost all feeling in that area. A post traumatic response?
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 Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre That's true. I seem to have lost all feeling in that area. A post traumatic response?
After decades of using it as a thought reservoir, it's simply used up.

Cheers. - Frank
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• This thread makes me want to hunt a prehistoric lion with an assault rifle.
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•  Originally Posted by socialentry This thread makes me want to hunt a prehistoric lion with an assault rifle.
This thread makes me wanna be that prehistoric lion, lyin' prone next to speakers boomin'

HERE I AM,
MR RIFLE GUY!
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre That's true. I seem to have lost all feeling in that area. A post traumatic response?
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre That's true. I seem to have lost all feeling in that area. A post traumatic response?
Posterior traumatic response.
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•  Originally Posted by BigFrank It was quite disturbing . . . . . . . for me. You loved the attention. That's probably why they find you walking bare-ass in your neighborhood. Trying to recreate a long lost feeling. Cheers. - Frank
They found me walking bare-ass through the neighborhood...because I escaped from being chained in your basement.
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 Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre They found me walking bare-ass through the neighborhood...because I escaped from being chained in your basement.
That's a totally bogus claim. NO ONE escapes my basement, a fact to which my mom will testify, someday!

Cheers. - Frank
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•  Originally Posted by BigFrank Get real. Claude doesn't give meaning to anything. Well, possibly the term vapid - or banal. Cheers. - Frank
Nonsense, the man at the dounut store is always pleased to get a call from him.

Bringgg, Bring.

Wooster Dounuts.

Yes, I'd like to order 13 boxes of dounuts please

Yes sir, CLAUDE!!!

How did you know it was me?

I would recognize the sound of that drooling anywhere.
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre I'm treating it as fiction. But real laws of physics can be applied to fiction. And an understanding of those laws can make the science fiction more of a fantasy. It was just a thought experiment. What about it? Do you mean that because of gravity, we would just stay in one place? Well, at the risk of turning this fictional idea into real science... The mass of the time machine would be spread out over the duration of the time traveled. If you are in a time machine for one minute, but traveled a year into the future, your time machine would have almost no density. It's because you would be spreading your mass...one minute of mass..., over an entire year. Your density, per second, would be almost nothing. You wouldn't be affected by gravity. That is assuming that time is another unit of measure, which it is. Another example would be, if you are traveling rapidly through time, you wouldn't appear to the people looking at you..at any specific time. And if they fired a bullet at you (or where you were), it would pass through empty air, because such a very small amount of you is there in any single moment. That's why (even in the science fiction books) you aren't traveling into the future, looking like a statue for centuries. And that is assuming that the Earth rotates, but doesn't travel through space....or that the sun doesn't travel through space. Do you see what I mean? You would never get to Perth. You would end up in outer space...where the Earth was, at the time you left. Remember, our Sun is traveling half a million miles an hour, and taking us right along with it. Travel ten minutes into the future (or the past) and you are in outer space.
Basically you are right, however, at speeds needed to even approach what you are considering, time would freeze.

So how do you get around that one? You fold space or leave the third dimension where time/space have no relevance. Remember - how we preceive time is not how it exists outside of our linear perceptions.
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• What a bizarre coincidence. I was thinking about time travel yesterday (truly), and also about how you'd end up in a completely different place to that which you started out from. You took that line of thought a lot further than I did though. I speculated that if I left Perth now and traveled backwards or forwards in time, when I stopped I could end up in Sydney, Auckland, Buenos Aries, Johannesburg or anywhere else on Earth, including the middle of the Pacific or Indian oceans.

To end up in Perth at a past or future date, a complex calculation would need to be done to determine exactly what time Perth occupied exactly the same space. Such a calculation is possible, however that might not be a time I actually wanted to visit.

An interesting topic. I can't wait to see what our resident science guru has to add to it.
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre If you just take the Earth's rotation, moving forward in time a minute, you would end up 16.666 miles from where you started. Why? Because
 Originally Posted by whateverpedia What a bizarre coincidence. I was thinking about time travel yesterday (truly), and also about how you'd end up in a completely different place to that which you started out from.
uhhmm... what about that little thing called gravity?
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• ^^ Details details ....
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• If we can make an object track with a point in a video editor, we can do the same with objects in time.

I figure it works by backing out into another dimension, and then popping back into these at your time target.

But we have so many perception issues, you're probably not able to do it until you achieve a certain awareness level. For instance we don't see infrared spectrum light, hear high frequency sound...

A snail won't notice an explosion that happens around it--the speed of events is too fast for it to perceive.

Surely there are energies and events moving around us all the time we simply lack the mental & physical equipment or perception to notice at our current stage of development.

Space and time are relative, anyway. Where's the "center" of the universe? Wherever you are.

It all ends up becoming a mind-hurting paradox, so I tend to stay away from it.
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 Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan A snail won't notice an explosion that happens around it--the speed of events is too fast for it to perceive.
Am I to assume that you have had this factoid explained to you by a snail? :-)

Cheers. - Frank
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•  Originally Posted by BigFrank Am I to assume that you have had this factoid explained to you by a snail? :-) Cheers. - Frank
No, I saw it in a film back in college.
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• Note to self--

Go in the bathroom.
Turn on the light.
Pull the shower curtain open.
Lock the door.
Turn off the light.
Step inside the tub.
Pull shower curtain back.
Sit.
Cover myself with blanket.
Pull shorts down.
Slap the monkey.
Don't make a sound whatever happens.

 Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan If we can make an object track with a point in a video editor, we can do the same with objects in time. I figure it works by backing out into another dimension, and then popping back into these at your time target. But we have so many perception issues, you're probably not able to do it until you achieve a certain awareness level. For instance we don't see infrared spectrum light, hear high frequency sound... A snail won't notice an explosion that happens around it--the speed of events is too fast for it to perceive. Surely there are energies and events moving around us all the time we simply lack the mental & physical equipment or perception to notice at our current stage of development. Space and time are relative, anyway. Where's the "center" of the universe? Wherever you are. It all ends up becoming a mind-hurting paradox, so I tend to stay away from it.
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•  Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan A snail won't notice an explosion that happens around it--the speed of events is too fast for it to perceive.
 Originally Posted by BigFrank Am I to assume that you have had this factoid explained to you by a snail? :-)
No. A snail's explanation would be too slow for the human mind to comprehend. Only Claude can understand a gastropod. And vice versa.

.
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• When you finally learn the truth that there is no such thing as time and there is only one eternal "Now" you will see that time travel is just a matter of sidestepping, no backwards or forwards movement required. The "Now" I talk about has Infinite threads, infinite timelines. everything that ever was is happening "Now". Time travel will be a case of shifting from one to the other rather than traveling.

I realized that about the physical universe version (of time travel) and occupying the same space problem long ago but I feel certain that the Quantum view is where we are heading and what we will eventually find will bear out what I have stated above. Metaphysics meets Physics if you like.

Building a device that enables us to do that, well that's another thing, unless you put any credence to the extensive stuff about Project Pegasus you will find on you-tube that tells us , thanks to groundwork by Tesla, the US has been able to do this since the late sixties apparently, along with teleportation. And of which, Barack Obama was recruited into.
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•  Originally Posted by lanfear63 When you finally learn the truth that there is no such thing as time and there is only one eternal "Now" you will see that time travel is just a matter of sidestepping, no backwards or forwards movement required. The "Now" I talk about has Infinite threads, infinite timelines. everything that ever was is happening "Now". Time travel will be a case of shifting from one to the other rather than traveling.
I don't know where you would get that idea. But it certainly would make a great explanation in a story line. In other words, if I heard that in a movie, I'd think it was brilliant original thinking.

By the way, I'm surprised nobody brought up the idea that since we are already traveling through space, the time traveler would just follow the same trajectory, at the same speed, as when he started his journey.

But if that happened, he would still end up in space, because we are traveling in multiple orbits, not a straight line.
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre I don't know where you would get that idea. But it certainly would make a great explanation in a story line. In other words, if I heard that in a movie, I'd think it was brilliant original thinking. By the way, I'm surprised nobody brought up the idea that since we are already traveling through space, the time traveler would just follow the same trajectory, at the same speed, as when he started his journey. But if that happened, he would still end up in space, because we are traveling in multiple orbits, not a straight line.
The "Eternal Now" is a concept that has been around in metaphysical writings for a long time. I find it fascinating that Quantum theory is beginning to hint at there being some possibility of truth in it.

Remember that docu I directed you to. It showed a solid progression of discoveries in the world of the atom. Everything was made to fit in. All perfectly logical. And then, oh dear, extra particals to explain. The observation thing, the measurement thing.

This prompted a scientist to say, oh well, lets not worry too much about it. And then it ended with a load of speculation. The guy who presented it was a physicist. It represents to me that since String theory, the brakes have been put on. No new bold advancements in understanding. Is it because it is becoming too mind boggling to work out or that we just cant accurately measure or detect it anymore?

It feels like to me that they prefer to be locked into Newtonian and early Einstienien physics and dont want to look any further.
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• Can u repost some of those links plz Fearo?

It has all the makings of an exquisite concept & may suit somthin' I'm musin' & writin' on.

And now, back to the science beatin' my poor brain into ratatouille...
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•  Originally Posted by lanfear63 The "Eternal Now" is a concept that has been around in metaphysical writings for a long time. I find it fascinating that Quantum theory is beginning to hint at there being some possibility of truth in it. Remember that docu I directed you to. It showed a solid progression of discoveries in the world of the atom. Everything was made to fit in. All perfectly logical. And then, oh dear, extra particals to explain. The observation thing, the measurement thing. This prompted a scientist to say, oh well, lets not worry too much about it. And then it ended with a load of speculation. The guy who presented it was a physicist. It represents to me that since String theory, the brakes have been put on. No new bold advancements in understanding. Is it because it is becoming too mind boggling to work out or that we just cant accurately measure or detect it anymore? It feels like to me that they prefer to be locked into Newtonian and early Einstienien physics and dont want to look any further.
Here is the problem....

We have facts. Scientific certainties, that can be tested and proven. Then you can extrapolate near certainties from the facts. But in only one or two steps from that, it's pure speculation. It's not that they don't want to look further, it's that science doesn't want to guess. And they don't want to just make things up. So we need to figure out how to make further discoveries without guessing.

I'm sure the technology will catch up to the speculation, to make further real discoveries possible. And then we will end up speculating from those discoveries.

The temptation is to take speculations and "what ifs" and try to meld them to whatever we want to believe. So we end up with quantum physics as an explanation for goblins.

But these connections are made by enthusiasts who already have a point of view, not by the physicists.
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre Here is the problem.... We have facts. Scientific certainties, that can be tested and proven. Then you can extrapolate near certainties from the facts. But in only one or two steps from that, it's pure speculation. It's not that they don't want to look further, it's that science doesn't want to guess. And they don't want to just make things up. So we need to figure out how to make further discoveries without guessing. I'm sure the technology will catch up to the speculation, to make further real discoveries possible. And then we will end up speculating from those discoveries. The temptation is to take speculations and "what ifs" and try to meld them to whatever we want to believe. So we end up with quantum physics as an explanation for goblins. But these connections are made by enthusiasts who already have a point of view, not by the physicists.
So, are you to continue standing on your safe, solid soap box, even though it has been scientifically proven to be an illusion?
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•  Originally Posted by lanfear63 So, are you to continue standing on your safe, solid soap box, even though it has been scientifically proven to be an illusion?
You may have lost me. What has been scientifically proven to be an illusion?
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre You may have lost me. What has been scientifically proven to be an illusion?
It was an analogy. To illustrate that the soap box is just a collection of atoms, particles, sub-particals, empty space, energy etc, and that you tend to defend the solidity of the soap box.

Lets look at science, several hundred years ago, it was well, put this powder with this powder, put a flame to it and bang, an explosion, we can blow people up. write that down. Trial and error, accidents led to discoveries like that. No one knew the mechanics of it, only that it worked.

Fast forward to say 100 years ago, out comes the microscope, oh, the powders are made of tiny particles, we will call them atoms. Different types of atoms in groups interacting with other types of atoms causes this to happen. Thats all science turned out to be, the observation of these interactions between the different atom groups and the effect/result. big step forward when we found out.

Then, logical progression, look deeper, look into the atom itself, what makes it tick. Initally ok, then getting more complex Oh dear, Pandora's box, so many layers, keep finding more, stranger and stranger. Getting more difficult to observe, measure. Implications and speculations ensue but unable to prove as yet. Wait around for observational tools and and tec to catch up.

Currently, my theories are as good as there's because they have no idea. Leveled the playing fields a bit for a while perhaps. I am trying to look at a bigger picture. Taking in more esoteric works and ideas. Something they wont or cant do being scientists and physicists, something your discipline does not allow you to do.
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•  Originally Posted by lanfear63 Currently, my theories are as good as there's because they have no idea. Leveled the playing fields a bit for a while perhaps. I am trying to look at a bigger picture. Taking in more esoteric works and ideas. Something they wont or cant do being scientists and physicists, something your discipline does not allow you to do.
I get that. And you explained it pretty clearly. You are trying to look at a bigger picture. But the way you are making the picture bigger is using your imagination (and the imagination of past philosophers).

You are right, I'm not willing to do that.
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre Here is the problem.... We have facts. Scientific certainties, that can be tested and proven. Then you can extrapolate near certainties from the facts. But in only one or two steps from that, it's pure speculation. It's not that they don't want to look further, it's that science doesn't want to guess. And they don't want to just make things up. So we need to figure out how to make further discoveries without guessing. I'm sure the technology will catch up to the speculation, to make further real discoveries possible. And then we will end up speculating from those discoveries. The temptation is to take speculations and "what ifs" and try to meld them to whatever we want to believe. So we end up with quantum physics as an explanation for goblins. But these connections are made by enthusiasts who already have a point of view, not by the physicists.
That is the way of science and if it weren't we would still be in the stone age.

 Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre I get that. And you explained it pretty clearly. You are trying to look at a bigger picture. But the way you are making the picture bigger is using your imagination (and the imagination of past philosophers). You are right, I'm not willing to do that.

But from the view of investigations into consciousness and an experiential standpoint it is something that is just as verifiable and repeatable by everyone. Although not probable as it is not to everyone's inclination and takes some effort.

And here, I am not talking about new ager;s and their fads or about belief systems but more about process. You do this then that and then another and you get the same result each time. But there is an obstacle to its accomplishment, the human mind. It is not as stable as a piece of scientific equipment and in some cases is merely a plate of soup.

We cannot all be scientists in the true sense of the word but we could all use the scientific method to investigate consciousness or whatever you want to call it. Both are trying to get to the bottom line. One will give you the experience and a wild ride the other will give you the knowledge and a lot of useful stuff along the way.
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When you nuts are finished with your intellectually devoid banter, feel free to PM me for the answers to the the most perplexing questions that the universe poses.

I'm having a slow day.

Cheers. - Frank
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 Originally Posted by BigFrank I'm slow.
Yes - I know. All, fixed!

So predictable. :-)

Cheers. - Frank
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•  Originally Posted by lanfear63 When you finally learn the truth that there is no such thing as time and there is only one eternal "Now" you will see that time travel is just a matter of sidestepping, no backwards or forwards movement required. The "Now" I talk about has Infinite threads, infinite timelines. everything that ever was is happening "Now". Time travel will be a case of shifting from one to the other rather than traveling. I realized that about the physical universe version (of time travel) and occupying the same space problem long ago but I feel certain that the Quantum view is where we are heading and what we will eventually find will bear out what I have stated above. Metaphysics meets Physics if you like. Building a device that enables us to do that, well that's another thing, unless you put any credence to the extensive stuff about Project Pegasus you will find on you-tube that tells us , thanks to groundwork by Tesla, the US has been able to do this since the late sixties apparently, along with teleportation. And of which, Barack Obama was recruited into.
Hmmm, let's not go there!

Yes, l have heard about Obama, going in a weird lift and teleporting to Mars, but it sounded to "let's pull this out of this Issac Sci Fi book, and spread it about"?

As for the US, having a few near light ships, probably!

Unless they have another ISS that occasionally docks with the SPace station and is coned shaped?

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•  Originally Posted by lanfear63 When you finally learn the truth that there is no such thing as time and there is only one eternal "Now" you will see that time travel is just a matter of sidestepping, no backwards or forwards movement required. The "Now" I talk about has Infinite threads, infinite timelines. everything that ever was is happening "Now". Time travel will be a case of shifting from one to the other rather than traveling. I realized that about the physical universe version (of time travel) and occupying the same space problem long ago but I feel certain that the Quantum view is where we are heading and what we will eventually find will bear out what I have stated above. Metaphysics meets Physics if you like. Building a device that enables us to do that, well that's another thing, unless you put any credence to the extensive stuff about Project Pegasus you will find on you-tube that tells us , thanks to groundwork by Tesla, the US has been able to do this since the late sixties apparently, along with teleportation. And of which, Barack Obama was recruited into.
Yeah, right on maaan.

But the present moment is so fleeting our senses cannot glimpse it. It is a fluctuation between nothing and something (a something that contains everything). The fluctuation maybe some way beyond a planck unit of time.

And yet it can be experienced.

Our mind/senses clump these ''nows' together into perceivable units. We perceive these clumps as change. But it is in the nothing end of the fluctuation that change originates. Nothing ever changes in the now because it is already happening.

The more present we become, the more we may witness (Micro facial expressions for instance). Although if we were constantly in the 'moment' nothing would be happening as each moment is independent of any other.

It's all a damn trick of perception. Nothing is happening all of the 'time'.
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•  Originally Posted by peterj Yeah, right on maaan. But the present moment is so fleeting our senses cannot glimpse it. It is a fluctuation between nothing and something (a something that contains everything). The fluctuation maybe some way beyond a planck unit of time. And yet it can be experienced. Our mind/senses clump these ''nows' together into perceivable units. We perceive these clumps as change. But it is in the nothing end of the fluctuation that change originates. Nothing ever changes in the now because it is already happening. The more present we become, the more we may witness (Micro facial expressions for instance). Although if we were constantly in the 'moment' nothing would be happening as each moment is independent of any other. It's all a damn trick of perception. Nothing is happening all the 'time'.
"It's all a damn trick of perception. Nothing is happening all the 'time'. "

Welcome to the OT forum.
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• Thus the yearning to go back in time. To recall and relive the youthful proclivities too far removed from the accumulated debilitating effects the present brings.
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre I will not delete this post, I promise. I was thinking about time travel the other day. I think I was watching a time travel movie, and wondered why nobody ever brought this up. When you travel through time, in a time machine...you are simply speeding up time in one location or reversing time, in the same location. In the time machine stories I've read, and the time travel movies I've seen, the time traveler moves through time, but not through space. Here is the problem with that. We are not stationary in space. If you just take the Earth's rotation, moving forward in time a minute, you would end up 16.666 miles from where you started. Why? Because the Earth rotates about 1,000 miles an hour. If you went through time an hour, you would end up 1,000 miles away from where you started. But that isn't your big problem. The big problem is that the Earth moves through space very quickly. In fact, the Earth is revolving around our sun at about 67,000 miles an hour.

If you jump up into the air and land a second later, do you land 280 km away from the spot where you jumped up, because the Earth has traveled through the space that much in one second? No. You travel along with the Earth.

The same principle works with the time travel. I don't know any time machine which doesn't have this built in feature to adjust for the movement of the Earth thought the space.

Oh, wait a minute. Time travel isn't even possible, so there is no space for logic and rational thinking here. How did you come up with your post in the first place?
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•  Originally Posted by Star Man I didn't read the entire thread. Perhaps someone has already addressed this. If you jump up into the air and land a second later, do you land 280 km away from the spot where you jumped up, because the Earth has traveled through the space that much in one second? No. You travel along with the Earth. The same principle works with the time travel. I don't know any time machine which doesn't have this built in feature to adjust for the movement of the Earth thought the space.

 Originally Posted by Star Man Oh, wait a minute. Time travel isn't even possible, so there is no space for logic and rational thinking here. How did you come up with your post in the first place?
It's just a thought experiment. I was treating it as a fictional subject, because every time travel story I've read (or watched) is fiction.

When I watch movies, these kind of thoughts occur to me throughout the movie.

Actually, you can apply rational thinking to a silly idea. The logic can make sense even with the subject being a fantasy.
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre It's just a thought experiment. I was treating it as a fictional subject, because every time travel story I've read (or watched) is fiction.
Haven't you read any non-fiction on this subject?

Breaking the Time Barrier: The Race to Build the First Time Machine by Jenny Randles
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• The esteemed British band Hawkwind here with there early seventies hit: Silver Machine. Note the line: "It flies, sideways through time" A later album they did was called Quark, Strangeness & Charm. I think I'm onto something here.

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•  Originally Posted by lanfear63 I think I'm onto something here.
If you're listening to Hawkwind, you're ON something, probably illegal.

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•  Originally Posted by lanfear63 The esteemed British band Hawkwind here with there early seventies hit: Silver Machine. Note the line: "It flies, sideways through time" ... I think I'm onto something here.
That might have carried more credence, if the next line in the song wasn't "It's an electric line to your zodiac sign."

Yours, another old Hawkwind fan.
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•  Originally Posted by Frank Donovan That might have carried more credence, if the next line in the song wasn't "It's an electric line to your zodiac sign." .
It might also have more credibility if it wasn't written by Lemmy, a man not known for his research into time and space, however he is an expert in the field of speed.
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•  Originally Posted by whateverpedia It might also have more credibility if it wasn't written by Lemmy, a man not known for his research into time and space, however he is an expert in the field of speed.
Lemmy provided the vocals for the recorded version, but the song was written by Dave Brock and Robert Calvert. To be fair, Calvert has been quoted as saying the lyrics were intended as a send-up of space travel hysteria.

Interestingly (or not, depending on your viewpoint), science fiction writer, Michael Moorcock, was a fan of the band and collaborated with them on a number of occasions.

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•  Originally Posted by Frank Donovan Lemmy provided the vocals for the recorded version, but the song was written by Dave Brock and Robert Calvert. To be fair, Calvert has been quoted as saying the lyrics were intended as a send-up of space travel hysteria.
Ah, yes. I stand corrected.

 Interestingly (or not, depending on your viewpoint), science fiction writer, Michael Moorcock, was a fan of the band and collaborated with them on a number of occasions..
Indeed. The video I posted (Sonic Attack) is a Moorcock composition. Back in the day i was a huge fan of his works, in particular the Elric Of MelnibonÃ© series.

<sigh> Memories.
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre Here is the problem.... We have facts. Scientific certainties, that can be tested and proven. Then you can extrapolate near certainties from the facts. But in only one or two steps from that, it's pure speculation. It's not that they don't want to look further, it's that science doesn't want to guess. And they don't want to just make things up. So we need to figure out how to make further discoveries without guessing. I'm sure the technology will catch up to the speculation, to make further real discoveries possible. And then we will end up speculating from those discoveries. The temptation is to take speculations and "what ifs" and try to meld them to whatever we want to believe. So we end up with quantum physics as an explanation for goblins. But these connections are made by enthusiasts who already have a point of view, not by the physicists.
True, Edison had an inkling that the electric light bulb, could work, so spend years hitting his head against a brick wall testing virtually anything he could find as a filiment.

He even tried coconut husks.

Then after he saw his maid using a vacumn cleaner, (yes, l know Claude, settle down) he realised that the lack of vacumn was the answer.

There wasn't any science, since it was more cutting a new path in the forest, then reading a book, although other scientists or experiments gave clues!

 Originally Posted by lanfear63 It was an analogy. To illustrate that the soap box is just a collection of atoms, particles, sub-particals, empty space, energy etc, and that you tend to defend the solidity of the soap box. Lets look at science, several hundred years ago, it was well, put this powder with this powder, put a flame to it and bang, an explosion, we can blow people up. write that down. Trial and error, accidents led to discoveries like that. No one knew the mechanics of it, only that it worked. Fast forward to say 100 years ago, out comes the microscope, oh, the powders are made of tiny particles, we will call them atoms. Different types of atoms in groups interacting with other types of atoms causes this to happen. Thats all science turned out to be, the observation of these interactions between the different atom groups and the effect/result. big step forward when we found out. Then, logical progression, look deeper, look into the atom itself, what makes it tick. Initally ok, then getting more complex Oh dear, Pandora's box, so many layers, keep finding more, stranger and stranger. Getting more difficult to observe, measure. Implications and speculations ensue but unable to prove as yet. Wait around for observational tools and and tec to catch up. Currently, my theories are as good as there's because they have no idea. Leveled the playing fields a bit for a while perhaps. I am trying to look at a bigger picture. Taking in more esoteric works and ideas. Something they wont or cant do being scientists and physicists, something your discipline does not allow you to do.
Yes, you make great discoveries, by ignoring the masses, and regurgitated restrictions, and just trying!

A working model in front of your eyes, will convince even the most stobborn of skeptics!

Well, after they have pulled it to bits trying to find the hidden whatever?

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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre You mean a vacuum, not a lack of vacuum. A vacuum takes away the oxygen that burns the filament.
Even though you are an unquestioned expert at sucking, I'm pretty sure Shane's comment was about a lack of a vacuum inside the light bulbs that didn't work.

PS...Proof of another disappearing post of Claude's.
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•  Originally Posted by Kurt PS...Proof of another disappearing post of Claude's.
We'd be disappointed if Claude's posts weren't disappointing.

On second thoughts, we'd be shocked if Claude's posts weren't disappointing.
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•  Originally Posted by whateverpedia We'd be disappointed if Claude's posts weren't disappointing. On second thoughts, we'd be shocked if Claude's posts weren't disappointing.
I doubt anyone is disappointed that so many of Claude's posts disappear.

However, I do find it funny that he deleted a post on a thread of his where he promised he wouldn't delete the thread. Even he doesn't like his posts.

He claims he changes and deletes his posts because he thinks of things later. He still hasn't figured out that he doesn't have to hit the "Submit Reply" button right away and can take a few minutes to "think" before submitting.
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•  Originally Posted by Kurt He still hasn't figured out that he doesn't have to hit the "Submit Reply" button right away and can take a few minutes to "think" before submitting.
That's good advice. I think I'll take it.
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•  Originally Posted by Kurt He claims he changes and deletes his posts because he thinks of things later. He still hasn't figured out that he doesn't have to hit the "Submit Reply" button right away and can take a few minutes to "think" before submitting.
There is a logical explanation to this behavior.
He wants to look smart so he posts the reply as fast as possible. Then edits and polishes it, or pays his team to edit it, until it looks as if the intelligent, rational, logical, well thought out reply was posted within a minute.

Whoaa, everyone stands in awe and admires the wit.

He can only get away with this, because the date and time doesn't change when the post is being edited.
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•  Originally Posted by Star Man Whoaa, everyone stands in awe and admires the wit.
ROFLMAO.

You're fairly new around here so are probably not aware that no-one down here admires Claude for his wit, whether his posts are edited or not.

If you've read George Orwell's classic novel Nineteen Eighty Four, you'll be familiar with the character of Emmanuel Goldstein. Goldstein is a fictional character made up by the Party to be the object of everyone's hatred.

Claude is the Off Topic Forum equivalent of Goldstein. He is a fictional character created by the mods to be the object of everyone's ridicule.
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•  Originally Posted by whateverpedia ROFLMAO. You're fairly new around here so are probably not aware that no-one down here admires Claude for his wit, whether his posts are edited or not. If you've read George Orwell's classic novel Nineteen Eighty Four, you'll be familiar with the character of Goldberg. Goldberg is a fictional character made up by the Party to be the object of everyone's hatred. In the Off Topic Forum Claude is a fictional character created by the mods so that the regulars here can direct their ridicule at him and not each other.
What, you mean the whole things a fake? Those 557 video's on you-tube, the recorded speaking engagements? That bogus store in Wooster? I was really taken in by the persona, it seemed so real.
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•  Originally Posted by lanfear63 What, you mean the whole things a fake? Those 557 video's on you-tube, the recorded speaking engagements? That bogus store in Wooster? I was really taken in by the persona, it seemed so real.
Yep. All carefully planned and designed. You didn't seriously think that any real person would admit to being a vacuum cleaner salesman did you?
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•  Originally Posted by lanfear63 What, you mean the whole things a fake? Those 557 video's on you-tube, the recorded speaking engagements? That bogus store in Wooster? I was really taken in by the persona, it seemed so real.
Well, you were the one claiming nothing's real.

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...l#post10382039

.
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•  Originally Posted by lanfear63 What, you mean the whole things a fake? Those 557 video's on you-tube, the recorded speaking engagements? That bogus store in Wooster? I was really taken in by the persona, it seemed so real.
Mark; If you believe I'm real...isn't that all that matters?
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•  Originally Posted by whateverpedia ROFLMAO. You're fairly new around here so are probably not aware that no-one down here admires Claude for his wit, whether his posts are edited or not. If you've read George Orwell's classic novel Nineteen Eighty Four, you'll be familiar with the character of Emmanuel Goldstein. Goldstein is a fictional character made up by the Party to be the object of everyone's hatred. Claude is the Off Topic Forum equivalent of Goldstein. He is a fictional character created by the mods to be the object of everyone's ridicule.
I've been reading it for a while. But I fall asleep every time, so I usually don't remember the last 2-3 chapters. I have to start over. I haven't got to the point where the Emmanual appeared. It's probably later in the book.

Fictional? So the low-lives could pick on him and feel important. Good idea.
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•  Originally Posted by Star Man Fictional? So the low-lives could pick on him and feel important. Good idea.
Kurt is offended by that remark.
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre Kurt is offended by that remark.
I want you to believe that I was referring to the fictional character from the "1984" book.
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•  Originally Posted by Star Man I want you to believe that I was referring to the fictional character from the "1984" book.
And I want you to believe that I was referring to the fictional character Kurt.
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•  Originally Posted by Star Man I want you to believe that I was referring to the fictional character from the "1984" book.
Claude must have had a porn name in a George Orwell book parody: "Animal Farm" but he was not credited on the VHS insert for some reason.

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 Originally Posted by whateverpedia Claude is a fictional character created by the mods to be the object of everyone's ridicule.
The character may be fictional but the ridicule is as real as it gets!

Cheers. - Frank
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• Well, I think I traveled through time quite nicely from the moment I was born until this very moment.Didn't you?
Oh, yeah, ummm, never mind.

Terra
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•  Originally Posted by BigFrank The character may be fictional but the ridicule is as real as it gets! Cheers. - Frank
Not only do I not exist.....but the problem is compounded by the fact that everyone hates me.

yea.
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 Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre Not only do I not exist.....but the problem is compounded by the fact that everyone hates me. yea.
Since unfortunately, you actually do exist, you reached a truthfulness level of 50% with that post. A new record for you. :-)

Cheers. - Frank
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre Not only do I not exist.....but the problem is compounded by the fact that everyone hates me. yea.
You're a conundrum, wrapped in pastry dough, deep fried in lard.
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•  Originally Posted by HeySal Yep, you're new here.
 Originally Posted by tagiscom You are new here, so l am not sure
 Originally Posted by whateverpedia You're fairly new around here so are probably not aware
I am new here? Sorry boys and girls. I've been around on this planet since 1921. That is when I first arrived here after having traveled through the space and time for centuries. How about you?

Fear not! I am a peaceful traveler, I'm the bringer of future.

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A scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. Max Planck

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•  Originally Posted by Star Man I am new here? Sorry boys and girls. I've been around on this planet since 1921. That is when I first arrived here after having traveled through the space and time for centuries. How about you? Fear not! I am a peaceful traveler, I'm the bringer of future. Now, go ahead and ask me anything about space and time travel.
Ah......wait a minute............Star Man........... I knew I recognized that from somewhere............

Aren't you the guy who was advertising on Craigslist for someone to time travel with?
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•  Originally Posted by Kurt I doubt anyone is disappointed that so many of Claude's posts disappear. However, I do find it funny that he deleted a post on a thread of his where he promised he wouldn't delete the thread. Even he doesn't like his posts. He claims he changes and deletes his posts because he thinks of things later. He still hasn't figured out that he doesn't have to hit the "Submit Reply" button right away and can take a few minutes to "think" before submitting.
Look it's very simple. All of Claude's posts are first submitted to the Rotten Toothecore forum post review site for ratings. If Claude's posts have fat jokes in them then they are usually Certified Flesh.

Sometimes though, Claude get's impatient, and thinking they will be good, posts them anyway. Then the abysmal reviews come in so he deletes them.

I'm glad we got that cleared up.
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•  Originally Posted by lanfear63 Look it's very simple. All of Claude's posts are first submitted to the Rotten Toothecore forum post review site for ratings. If Claude's posts have fat jokes in them then they are usually Certified Flesh. Sometimes though, Claude get's impatient, and thinking they will be good, posts them anyway. Then the abysmal reviews come in so he deletes them. I'm glad we got that cleared up.
First; "Rotten Tothecore" was funny.

Second; I have only deleted four posts ever. Here they are, my deleted posts;

You're welcome.
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre First; "Rotten Tothecore" was funny. Second; I have only deleted four posts ever. Here they are, my deleted posts; You're welcome.
Best content you ever posted.

Kudos to the Mods
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•  Originally Posted by Frank Donovan That might have carried more credence, if the next line in the song wasn't "It's an electric line to your zodiac sign." Yours, another old Hawkwind fan. .
Cunningly disguising and discrediting the lyrics after the fact, clever. By the time I got to see them at the Reading Festival, Stacey the exotic (topless) dancer was wearing a bikini top. One of life's little disappointments there.

Actually they were quite big.
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•  Originally Posted by lanfear63 Cunningly disguising and discrediting the lyrics after the fact, clever. By the time I got to see them at the Reading Festival, Stacey the exotic (topless) dancer was wearing a bikini top. One of life's little disappointments there. Actually they were quite big.
No kidding. I saw her dance with the band in her, ahem, prime. She must have had to fashion that bikini top out of a couple of small tents.

.
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•  Originally Posted by Frank Donovan No kidding. I saw her dance with the band in her, ahem, prime. She must have had to fashion that bikini top out of a couple of small tents. .
Ah, this was 1975 and an outdoor venue. The envy runs deep.

Classic year that, Wishbone Ash, Yes, Thin Lizzy, Supertramp, lots of big names.
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•  Originally Posted by Frank Donovan That might have carried more credence, if the next line in the song wasn't "It's an electric line to your zodiac sign." Yours, another old Hawkwind fan. .
Last night I found a docu on Hawkwind on You-tube. Silver Machine was actually inspired by the fact that the writer owned a silver colored bicycle with a bell. What a let down.
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• Banned
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•  Originally Posted by kimtomato :3 hello ))))
GET OVER HERE QUICK!
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• I'm wondering is that possible, I was watching clips similar to this one
We will never know but we can just keep thinking about it and how it would affect us
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• Quote:
Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
You mean a vacuum, not a lack of vacuum. A vacuum takes away the oxygen that burns the filament.

Even though you are an unquestioned expert at sucking, I'm pretty sure Shane's comment was about a lack of a vacuum inside the light bulbs that didn't work.

PS...Proof of another disappearing post of Claude's.

Hmmm, l can understand you pulling that one, seems a bit silly, especially when Edisons first globes, weren't a perfect vacumn, but got close enough to do the job.

It comes as a surprise that light bulbs were available at the time, he just increased the life span from 10 hours to 50!

Thomas Edison and the Electric Lamp, Patented Jan. 27, 1880 - IPWatchdog.com | Patents & Patent Law

Still forging a path in the jungle, but there was obviously a small track used by small animals there already!

PS l wasn't going to mention fluffy bunnies, but the thought had occured to me!
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• Can we now travel back in time to the point [stroke]where[/stroke] when this thread still made sense?
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•  Originally Posted by Star Man Can we now travel back in time to the point [stroke]where[/stroke] when this thread still made sense?
At no time did this thread ever make sense.
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•  Originally Posted by Star Man Can we now travel back in time to the point [stroke]where[/stroke] when this thread still made sense?
Yep, you're new here. Travel back to the Subject line of the thread to get to the "where it made sense". Once you hit the OP, it's all over. As you will learn sooner or later -- Claude and physics do not mix. At all.
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• [DELETED]
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•  Originally Posted by Star Man There is a logical explanation to this behavior. He wants to look smart so he posts the reply as fast as possible. Then edits and polishes it, or pays his team to edit it, until it looks as if the intelligent, rational, logical, well thought out reply was posted within a minute. Whoaa, everyone stands in awe and admires the wit. He can only get away with this, because the date and time doesn't change when the post is being edited.
You are new here, so l am not sure if you can tear strips of Claude,...yet?

But, l appreciate the effort!

 Originally Posted by lanfear63 Look it's very simple. All of Claude's posts are first submitted to the Rotten Toothecore forum post review site for ratings. If Claude's posts have fat jokes in them then they are usually Certified Flesh. Sometimes though, Claude get's impatient, and thinking they will be good, posts them anyway. Then the abysmal reviews come in so he deletes them. I'm glad we got that cleared up.
Toothecore? I thought that it was, ILBAFS, or I Love Being A F*** Skeptic forum, he is working towards his "I have physics for breakfast badge?

 Originally Posted by whateverpedia ROFLMAO. You're fairly new around here so are probably not aware that no-one down here admires Claude for his wit, whether his posts are edited or not. If you've read George Orwell's classic novel Nineteen Eighty Four, you'll be familiar with the character of Emmanuel Goldstein. Goldstein is a fictional character made up by the Party to be the object of everyone's hatred. Claude is the Off Topic Forum equivalent of Goldstein. He is a fictional character created by the mods to be the object of everyone's ridicule.
1984,....only difference is Claude uses a rampant, starving fluffy bunny in a face cage,....he has converted many with that one.

 Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre Not only do I not exist.....but the problem is compounded by the fact that everyone hates me. yea.
Everyone hates you, Claude, nah,......there is a difference between hate and contempt?

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• How many times have the most brilliant among us been wrong-- often about their own ideas?

Aristotle thought the moon was perfectly smooth.
Galileo thought every hair on his chest was smarter than other people.
(Newsflash Galley: Medical science proved during your lifetime, chesthair has no brains.)
Einstein was often wrong about his own ideas.
Hawking as well.

So all these people (and us), studying the Multiverse from our tiny little perspective,
with really nothing more than some recordings of light and a couple of decades to go on...
not very scientific, such a small sample...?

https://youtu.be/mDsN5lWLKU0?t=1m28s
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•  Originally Posted by MikeTucker How many times have the most brilliant among us been wrong-- often about their own ideas?
So, since Claude isn't the most brilliant among us, and has no ideas of his own, he must be right all the time.

CRACK!!!

(That was the sound of the internet breaking).

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So that blind people can hate them as well.
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•  Originally Posted by whateverpedia So, since Claude isn't the most brilliant among us, and has no ideas of his own, he must be right all the time.
You jest, of course, and it's easy to take shots at Claude, but in truth
he probably does know more about space than any of us, he has the
most experience with vacuums.

OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH

(That was the sound of the Internet groaning)
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The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

...A tachyon enters a bar.

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•  Originally Posted by MikeTucker You jest, of course, and it's easy to take shots at Claude, but in truth he probably does know more about space than any of us, he has the most experience with vacuums. OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH (That was the sound of the Internet groaning)
Uh...........that'd be real helpful if space were actually a vaccuum. But then gravity has been known to suck, too, so maybe.........
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•  Originally Posted by MikeTucker You jest, of course, and it's easy to take shots at Claude, but in truth he probably does know more about space than any of us, he has the most experience with vacuums.

The most even the strongest vacuum can produce is a force of 15 pounds per cubic inch. That's at sea level.

All a vacuum is, is a difference in air pressure.

So, most higher end vacuum cleaners approach the most suction possible.

In other words, if you lined up 100 powerful vacuum cleaner motors, you would have no greater suction, than with one motor.

On Venus, a vacuum cleaner would have hundreds of times more suction, than on Earth. On Mars, almost none.

Yes, I am incredibly entertaining at parties. I am basing that on something I was told, "Claude, if anyone ever invited you to their party, I'm sure someone would be entertained by your pomposity."

See? I am entertaining!
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•  Originally Posted by MikeTucker How many times have the most brilliant among us been wrong-- often about their own ideas? Aristotle thought the moon was perfectly smooth. Galileo thought every hair on his chest was smarter than other people. (Newsflash Galley: Medical science proved during your lifetime, chesthair has no brains.) Einstein was often wrong about his own ideas. Hawking as well.
Thank you, Mike. You came to my rescue, by saying that many great men are also completely wrong.

"Claude is in great company. These men are also morons....and they also never had sex with a woman"

Thank you, Mike. Thank you.
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre "Claude is in great company. These men are also morons....and they also never had sex with a woman"
Thanks Claude...I now understand the hater website thing we were talking about.

I reckon that thing is just like two sides of a coin "Love and Hate."

Unfortunately...or not...

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•  Originally Posted by Oziboomer Thanks Claude...I now understand the hater website thing we were talking about. I reckon that thing is just like two sides of a coin "Love and Hate." Unfortunately...or not... It's a double-header and your mug's on both sides.

It's a little different here. Most are joking. Trading insults is how we entertain ourselves.

But I want a real Hate website, where someone spends their entire day, just sitting in their own juices...in their mom's basement....hating me, and posting about it.

If someone started a site like that, I'd probably join under two different accounts, and I would accuse myself of evil deeds, with the other guy defending me. I might even go on the site as myself, pretending to defend myself, but in a way that makes me look even more guilty.

Honestly, I've thought about starting the site myself, just to get the ball rolling.
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre It's a little different here. Most are joking. Trading insults is how we entertain ourselves. But I want a real Hate website, where someone spends their entire day, just sitting in their own juices...in their mom's basement....hating me, and posting about it. If someone started a site like that, I'd probably join under two different accounts, and I would accuse myself of evil deeds, with the other guy defending me. I might even go on the site as myself, pretending to defend myself, but in a way that makes me look even more guilty. Honestly, I've thought about starting the site myself, just to get the ball rolling.
Go and talk to WC, l think that he has mastered it?

Then post the link here, (well, sig file) so we can avoid it, and take a look when the moon is full, and our morbid curiosity becomes too strong?

I might need to put my Laptop in a circle surrounded by crystals and candles, first, but that is optional?

There is a Hate Claude forum, (not sure if l can post it here) but his second name is Claude Faustus?

Might give you ideas?

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•  Originally Posted by tagiscom Go and talk to WC, l think that he has mastered it?
Why does he have go and talk to himself (Whitarce Claude)?
Or did you mean Water Closet? Or Winston Churchill?
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•  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre But I want a real Hate website, where someone spends their entire day, just sitting in their own juices...in their mom's basement....hating me, and posting about it.
There's an app for that.

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•  Originally Posted by MikeTucker How many times have the most brilliant among us been wrong-- often about their own ideas? Aristotle thought the moon was perfectly smooth. Galileo thought every hair on his chest was smarter than other people. (Newsflash Galley: Medical science proved during your lifetime, chesthair has no brains.) Einstein was often wrong about his own ideas. Hawking as well. So all these people (and us), studying the Multiverse from our tiny little perspective, with really nothing more than some recordings of light and a couple of decades to go on... not very scientific, such a small sample...? https://youtu.be/mDsN5lWLKU0?t=1m28s
That is true - it's taken some of our modern technology to actually start sorting what is real, or logically possible. We, as I said before, are limited by our perspective - which is very limited. As we become more able to see further and smaller, we become more advanced, but it's really hard to say we'll ever be able to know the complete truth unless someone with more scope than we have drops in from elsewhere to point the way.

It baffles me that scientists are actually thinking of time travel when we haven't even been able to discern the true nature of time yet.
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• Banned
 Originally Posted by HeySal It baffles me that scientists are actually thinking of time travel when we haven't even been able to discern the true nature of time yet.
Not to mention urban gridlock.

Cheers. - Frank
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• There's an interesting concept about why Claude will never be able to time travel. It's because the mass of his butt is so high that there isn't enough energy in the known universe to support him traveling at warp speed.

It's called The Big Bung Theory.
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• Forget about Orion's Belt...Claude's Belt gives the Universe the ultimate muffin top.
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• Anyway good way to loose some time.
If i am about to be philosophical about it , i travel trough time with a good movie or looking at the eyes of my loved one. Time immediately stops. We are wondering how two hours gone by.
If you like to be scientific i think that time travel is possible but not for humans. I believe that they are hard core aliens who control for us not to blow everything up (including ourselfs). And they do travel back in time. I don't think travel in the future is possible tho. Except for the Simpsons - Donald Trump election prediction and Back to the future. ehehe )
Traveling with high speeds is one of the solutions but i would not agree because to travel with those speeds means that you have no mass. Something that is impossible. So leave time travel to aliens and enjoy life Cheers.
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•  Originally Posted by bojan92 Anyway good way to loose some time. If i am about to be philosophical about it , i travel trough time with a good movie or looking at the eyes of my loved one. Time immediately stops. We are wondering how two hours gone by. If you like to be scientific i think that time travel is possible but not for humans. I believe that they are hard core aliens who control for us not to blow everything up (including ourselfs). And they do travel back in time. I don't think travel in the future is possible tho. Except for the Simpsons - Donald Trump election prediction and Back to the future. ehehe ) Traveling with high speeds is one of the solutions but i would not agree because to travel with those speeds means that you have no mass. Something that is impossible. So leave time travel to aliens and enjoy life Cheers.
If Einstein's theories about time are correct - you should be able to go both "past" and "future" with equal ease.
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•  Originally Posted by Star Man Why does he have go and talk to himself (Whitarce Claude)? Or did you mean Water Closet? Or Winston Churchill?
No, WC means Walking Carpet, a practicing demogod who got his wings clipped, a few months ago!

 Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre A truth about vacuum cleaners. The most even the strongest vacuum can produce is a force of 15 pounds per cubic inch. That's at sea level. All a vacuum is, is a difference in air pressure. So, most higher end vacuum cleaners approach the most suction possible. In other words, if you lined up 100 powerful vacuum cleaner motors, you would have no greater suction, than with one motor. On Venus, a vacuum cleaner would have hundreds of times more suction, than on Earth. On Mars, almost none. Yes, I am incredibly entertaining at parties. I am basing that on something I was told, "Claude, if anyone ever invited you to their party, I'm sure someone would be entertained by your pomposity." See? I am entertaining!
Not sure about Mars? A million fluffy bunnies can't be wrong?

 Originally Posted by bojan92 Anyway good way to loose some time. If i am about to be philosophical about it , i travel trough time with a good movie or looking at the eyes of my loved one. Time immediately stops. We are wondering how two hours gone by. If you like to be scientific i think that time travel is possible but not for humans. I believe that they are hard core aliens who control for us not to blow everything up (including ourselfs). And they do travel back in time. I don't think travel in the future is possible tho. Except for the Simpsons - Donald Trump election prediction and Back to the future. ehehe ) Traveling with high speeds is one of the solutions but i would not agree because to travel with those speeds means that you have no mass. Something that is impossible. So leave time travel to aliens and enjoy life Cheers.
Not really, scanning a region of space for minute particles, then going very close to light speed, shouldn't be an issue!

As for infinite mass, a photon can go very close to light speed as it is virtually massless, so build a ship out of photons and you are laughing.

Or in a more practical sense, as they did in Avatar, build a good part of the ship out of elements with anitgravity elements and it can overcome some of the light speed issues.

At least enough to reach 30%!

But if you aim a untra high intensity beam at your ship, so it loses mass, then reaching light speed shouldn't be a barrier?

Even 4 gyroscopic motors, rotating in a circle in a ship could reduce mass!

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