American Writers vs. "Everybody else"... can you really tell the difference?

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I've been seeing these posts (usually in "Warriors For Hire") where many writers will advertise themselves as:

"Native English speaking writer" or...,

"American writer" or...

"Writer educated in American University with degree in English".

And I was kind of wondering... is there really that much of a difference in terms of writing skills between, say, a U.S. born writer and a really talented writer who was not born in the United States or U.K. (and has never lived in either of these countries)?

That is, let's say someone looked at a random article, e-book or even sales copy... can they accurately guess whether the content was written by a U.S./UK writer or a writer from another country?

P.S.: This kind of reminds me of some of the martial arts schools I see, where they would advertise something like, "...Learn from a true oriental master...".
  • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
    There are certain words - like advice and advise.

    Comes down to how some things are spelled.
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

      There are certain words - like advice and advise.
      In English English they're actually two different words.

      "Can you give me any advice?" In this sentence it's a noun.

      I would advise you not to do that." In this sentence it's a verb.

      There are different spellings for the same words such as those that end in "our" in English English such as colour, flavour, and humour. In American English they are spelt color, flavor and humor.

      Also words ending in "tre" such as theatre and kilometre are spelt theater and kilometer in American.

      There's also turns of phrase such as the American saying "I could care less" to denote a state of apathy. In English that sentence doesn't make any sense, and "I couldn't care less" is used instead

      Add to that common everyday items that are called something different such as American elevators (lifts in English) and cellphones (mobile phones in English).

      In the end, if you're writing for non-specific English speaking readers, either style is okay, If you want to specifically target one or the other, it's best to use a writer who is fluent in that particular style.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
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        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        Also words ending in "tre" such as theatre and kilometre are spelt theater and kilometer in American.
        The average person in the US would never use the word kilometer, they would use the word mile.
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        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          The average person in the US would never use the word kilometer, they would use the word mile.
          Good point. America is one of only three countries in the world that don't use the metric system.
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
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            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

            Good point. America is one of only three countries in the world that don't use the metric system.
            We use metric for some things but that's mostly because some of the largest businesses in the US that are global. Example, we use liters for 2-liter soft drinks I'm sure Coca-Cola & Pepsi made that a standard to simplify their business. Milk on the other hand is measured in gallons which is a local product (low shelf life & doubtful much is imported).
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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

            Good point. America is one of only three countries in the world that don't use the metric system.
            Yep, the only metric distance I can grasp is 5 kilometers and 10 kilometers because as a runner of both, I know they equate to 3.1 miles and 6.2 miles respectively
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          I don't think the OP was asking about the differences between US and non-US English; rather the differences between native and non-native English speakers.

          Many non-native English writers are capable of fluent prose, but there are certain giveaways, such as an inappropriate use of idioms, that can betray their non native status. There are also some sentence structures that are common to a particular nationality - for example, a native French speaker might place the adverb in the "wrong" position, as in "He makes always this mistake".

          That's probably why someone who wants a relatively informal, "chatty" kind of style, would prefer to hire a native English speaker.

          .
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        In English English they're actually two different words.

        "Can you give me any advice?" In this sentence it's a noun.

        I would advise you not to do that." In this sentence it's a verb.

        There are different spellings for the same words such as those that end in "our" in English English such as colour, flavour, and humour. In American English they are spelt color, flavor and humor.

        Also words ending in "tre" such as theatre and kilometre are spelt theater and kilometer in American.

        There's also turns of phrase such as the American saying "I could care less" to denote a state of apathy. In English that sentence doesn't make any sense, and "I couldn't care less" is used instead

        Add to that common everyday items that are called something different such as American elevators (lifts in English) and cellphones (mobile phones in English).

        In the end, if you're writing for non-specific English speaking readers, either style is okay, If you want to specifically target one or the other, it's best to use a writer who is fluent in that particular style.
        WELL, the british/English spelling you mention is ENTIRELY different! The meaning is the same, and many understand what is meant and why they are spelled that way. And ******NO******* the American saying is "I couldN'T care less!!!!!" Careless people and a bad educational system, along with immigrants, caused the variant! Elevator is a bit more precise than lift. LIFT needs more context! STILL, UNDERSTOOD, at least by many! BTW the American word IS MOBILE PHONE ALSO, a term that goes to even BEFORE the 70s! CELL PHONE is actually a TYPE of mobile phone that, in the US, probably started taking off in the 80s. A MOBILE PHONE is simply a MOBILE PHONE. It would include satellite and repeater type phones. A Cell Phone refers only to those running off of a more local, and generally terrestrial CELL.

        Still, of course, you can better communicate if you do things according to how most generally see them. British writers may ALSO use slang and references that apply ONLY to the UK, etc... And MANY will have trouble with THAT. THAT is why JAVA and HTML provide for LOCALEs, rather than languages. Because if you write, it is NOT just the language, but also the CULTURE that matters. SPAIN, for example, would have to produce different material for Mexico, even though the language is about as similar as "british" and "American". And FRENCH? Canada, Africa, france, Switzerland, Belgium, etc... would all be a bit different.

        BTW did you know that the GERMAN word for cell phone is HANDY? I wonder if this is because they consider it more of a handheld computer or general gadget. After all, in a way we don't generally use phones anymore, but computers that have an app that acts like a phone. Just something to think about.

        Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

      There are certain words - like advice and advise.

      Comes down to how some things are spelled.
      YEAH, one of my favorites is "build in". Which TECHNICALLY states it is INCOMPLETE, and the CUSTOMER must build it! I THINK they mean "built in", which means it is complete, and ready to use, but who can tell?

      STILL, with the educational system, immigrants, etc...., who can really ask a question like the OP here?

      And there is the NEW idea now about "revert" which means to basically "GO BACK, or CHANGE to the way it was", but it is used to replace "reply" which means to ANSWER.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

      Comes down to how some things are spelled.
      Or how some things are spelt.

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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        Or how some things are spelt.

        Or learnt.
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  • Profile picture of the author tahoecale
    In my opinion, people will advertise like that because buyers want to have their articles, reviews, content, etc, well written in English with proper spelling and grammar. If English is not the writers first language, they might not spell things properly, use a wrong version of a word, or write broken thoughts. If you are looking to buy content writers, make sure you can see their portfolios or some sample writings. You need to make sure that you are getting something well written before purchasing.
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  • Language in different countries there must be a difference
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  • American writers get to the point quicker; English writers get to the point beautifullier, using more commas.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I have found that many writers in Warriors for Hire who advertise "Native English speaking writer" or "Writer educated in American University with degree in English" are not only atrocious at writing, but flat out liars. The work I've received from some of them was pure garbage.

    I hire people that I know are US born and raised and educated writers.
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  • Profile picture of the author fin
    It's impossible to tell.

    There are too many US/UK writers with terrible spelling, and grammer.
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    • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
      Originally Posted by fin View Post

      It's impossible to tell.

      There are too many US/UK writers with terrible spelling, and grammer.
      Mum or Mom... there is a difference and you can tell. Now ya'al don't be making fun when we is making some moonshine . There is a huge difference between southern's and yankee's understand. We can tell.


      FYI- Upstate NY white hots or red hots with a pop . I just prefer a Hot Dog and a coke. We drive down the shore not to go to the beach... So local slang comes into play also.
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  • Profile picture of the author agc
    Originally Posted by davidhorph View Post

    I've been seeing these posts (usually in "Warriors For Hire") where many writers will advertise themselves as:

    "Native English speaking writer" or...,

    "American writer" or...

    "Writer educated in American University with degree in English".

    And I was kind of wondering... is there really that much of a difference in terms of writing skills between, say, a U.S. born writer and a really talented writer who was not born in the United States or U.K. (and has never lived in either of these countries)?

    That is, let's say someone looked at a random article, e-book or even sales copy... can they accurately guess whether the content was written by a U.S./UK writer or a writer from another country?

    P.S.: This kind of reminds me of some of the martial arts schools I see, where they would advertise something like, "...Learn from a true oriental master...".
    If I just want plain old correct and proper English, text book style, I have a better chance of getting it from a US or CAN writer.

    Maybe AUS and maybe maybe UK, but I'd have to watch them to make sure they mind their own habits and can produce correct copy for the US market.

    I found I have even less chance of getting clean copy from other writers (as in non US CAN AUS UK), although if I don't mind editing and minor rework I've had some useful stuff produced in PHL and IN. As an aside, Indian writers always think their English is perfect, yet I've only had one Indian writer (out of a dozen or so who swore they could do the job) come close, and even then I still had to proof and edit.

    But if you want casually written or conversational copy for the US market, you have almost zero chance of getting top quality work out of anything but US or CAN writers.

    Others may know the language, and they may think they know the culture, but they just don't. At least not well enough to produce top quality US market copy for anything that isn't a Strunk and White market.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by agc View Post

      If I just want plain old correct and proper English, text book style, I have a better chance of getting it from a US or CAN writer.

      Maybe AUS and maybe maybe UK, but I'd have to watch them to make sure they mind their own habits and can produce correct copy for the US market.

      I found I have even less chance again of getting clean copy from other writers, although if I don't mind editing and minor rework I've had some useful stuff produced in PHL and IN. As an aside, Indian writers always think their English is perfect, yet I've only had one Indian writer (out of a dozen or so who swore they could do the job) come close, and even then I still had to proof and edit.

      But if you want casually written or conversational copy for the US market, you have almost zero chance of getting top quality work out of anything but US or CAN writers.

      Others may know the language, and they may think they know the culture, but they just don't. At least not well enough to produce top quality US market copy for anything that isn't a Strunk and White market.
      Some Indians have basically told me that nobody in the US, or the UK for that matter, pronounces any English word right! They feel all is to be phonetic, etc..... And sometimes that can lead to BIG misunderstandings.

      BESIDES, a lot of English isn't even really English. It is ADOPTED. And much of that is pronounced closer to the original word than English.

      Don't ask me why, but a LOT of letters have different rules in different languages. So an "a", for example, in most European languages is usually pronounced a way that is different from English, and Scandinavian languages tend to be a bit between the two. Even the idea of long and short is different! In many European languages a long I sounds like a long e would in English. And then there are subtle differences in spelling, like British aluminium and American Aluminum. They LOOK similar, and mean the same thing, but are spelled and sound different.

      I wonder if Indians tell germans that they are pronouncing theater wrong! Theater IS a word in german, and DOES mean the same as it does in English, but it is pronounced Tayahter.

      And even in the US, different regions have historically had different ways of pronouncing things.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author agc
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        Some Indians have basically told me that nobody in the US, or the UK for that matter, pronounces any English word right! They feel all is to be phonetic, etc....
        I'd love to see someone put their name on that one in writing. lol
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  • Profile picture of the author agc
    Originally Posted by davidhorph View Post

    P.S.: This kind of reminds me of some of the martial arts schools I see, where they would advertise something like, "...Learn from a true oriental master...".

    PS. The reason many advertise "true oriental master" is because oriental masters don't believe in participation trophies.


    I would expect very few non US, CAN, AUS (maybe NZ) and UK writers could ever write such a thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author agc
    Revert to mean reply is not accepted as proper English.

    Currently it's one of those "look down the nose at the ignorant kids trying to play grown up and speak business" classism trigger words. (I admit to thinking less of anyone who uses it that way, particularly in an environment where they are supposed to be educated).

    Maybe in 40 years it'll be in the dictionary as accepted English. Of course with the dictionaries being democratized by the internet too, anything resembling a shred of earned authority goes out the window.

    I guess an interesting question would be: What makes a dictionary a real dictionary?
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by agc View Post

      Revert to mean reply is not accepted as proper English.

      Currently it's one of those "look down the nose at the ignorant kids trying to play grown up and speak business" classism trigger words. (I admit to thinking less of anyone who uses it that way, particularly in an environment where they are supposed to be educated).

      Maybe in 40 years it'll be in the dictionary as accepted English. Of course with the dictionaries being democratized by the internet too, anything resembling a shred of earned authority goes out the window.

      I guess an interesting question would be: What makes a dictionary a real dictionary?
      SO many words are being redefined, that a LOT of words today are practically WORTHLESS!!!!! I could give LOADS of examples, but many are due to POLITICAL games, etc..., and so.....

      But HEY, revert is a good example. I have seen that used in contexts where it could mean *****EITHER*****! I have ACTUALLY seen cases where if you read it the way THEIR culture often meant it, it might be a needless talk and a waste of time bt if you read it as normal English, it could BANKRUPT A COMPANY! I guess it is good that most in that area learn the strange meaning, and companies have testers that hopefully will catch a disaster if it DOES happen.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      I don't think the OP was asking about the differences between US and non US English; rather the differences between native and non native English speakers.
      Right. I've observed that most non native English speakers seem to stem from closer to a non US English, but there is something always off that it can be identified as not being even UK or Australian.

      That is, let's say someone looked at a random article, e-book or even sales copy... can they accurately guess whether the content was written by a U.S./UK writer or a writer from another country?
      I'll be happy to start tossing some quotes in this thread as I come across them.

      No clue where this poster is from:

      You need to learn more about grammar and of course, read article in article directory. Choose one format that you like, follow it and at the end, by having more practices,you will find your own style. It needs time but once you master it, you may generate money from offering your writing skill
      I will bet not American, not UK, not Aussie.
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      • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
        Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

        I will bet not American, not UK, not Aussie.
        Maybe not native...but very probably a permanent resident or Citizen.

        In Australia in particular you will encounter such a diverse range of English speakers that are Aussie Citizens who have migrated.

        Strewth and whack the diddle-o cobber. Are you coming the raw prawn? If so, I hope your chooks turn into emus and kick your dunny down
        Not usually unless you might be visiting the outback in some bygone time warp.

        Outback = Bush = Boondocks

        Chooks is an interesting word.
        Very commonly used...

        another that I found difficult to "listen" to was...

        "OLDIES"

        ...as in going over to the "oldies"...parents or grand parents

        The real difficulty now is in getting the language right for the products that cross over into the millennials who prefer to talk in TEXT

        Best advice might be to write for 11 year olds and use grammarly often.
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  • Profile picture of the author fin
    Writing in Oz English is harder than US English even though Oz and UK spell most words the same.

    It would be hard for anyone to write in conversation Oz English because they have such stupid sayings.

    Why,is a lunch break called 'smoko' if you don't smoke? That might not be exactly write, I've only lived there a year.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by fin View Post

      That might not be exactly write,
      Write or right?
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      • Profile picture of the author fin
        Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

        Write or right?
        It was late, give me a brake.
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by fin View Post

      Why,is a lunch break called 'smoko' if you don't smoke?
      A lunch break is called lunch. A smoko is just a break from work. It derives from a time when smoking was commonplace and has somehow stuck.

      It would be hard for anyone to write in conversation Oz English because they have such stupid sayings.
      Strewth and whack the diddle-o cobber. Are you coming the raw prawn? If so, I hope your chooks turn into emus and kick your dunny down.

      That might not be exactly write,
      It isn't right either.

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      • Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        Strewth and whack the diddle-o cobber. Are you coming the raw prawn? If so, I hope your chooks turn into emus and kick your dunny down.
        That is so beautiful.

        Do you sing an' play music also?
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        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
          Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

          That is so beautiful.

          Do you sing an' play music also?
          No, but this guy does.

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          • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
            Princess got the old Cyrano de Whateverpedia.
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            • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
              I was born, grew up and educated, to BA level in English language, in the UK, I moved to the US many years ago (more actually that I'm prepared to admit to ).

              I've also passed the Cambridge English Proficiency (CPE) C2 / advanced examination in English language (not easy, believe me!).

              BUT, I've lived and written in the US long enough to be totally "ambidextrous" or maybe "bi-lingual" would be a better description. Depending upon requirements I can, at the drop of a hat, write in true English English, or American English, although these days, with 90% of my likely audience being American, that is the way my output leans

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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by AnniePot View Post

                I was born, grew up and educated, to BA level in English language, in the UK, I moved to the US many years ago (more actually that I'm prepared to admit to ).

                I've also passed the Cambridge English Proficiency (CPE) C2 / advanced examination in English language (not easy, believe me!).

                BUT, I've lived and written in the US long enough to be totally "ambidextrous" or maybe "bi-lingual" would be a better description. Depending upon requirements I can, at the drop of a hat, write in true English English, or American English, although these days, with 90% of my likely audience being American, that is the way my output leans

                But do the courses even teach slang? I DOUBT they teach local references and the like. And you can probably write in English that is appropriate in the US AND the UK as long as you stay away from slang, words that are spelled differently, legal jargon, political references, and local references. I bet NONE of that is covered in the courses though.

                As for C2, I can believe it. A lot in the US(And maybe the UK also) are probably not even B2!

                Steve
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            • Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

              Princess got the old Cyrano de Whateverpedia.
              I will be sure to apply plenty of ointment to the affected parts.
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      • Profile picture of the author fin
        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        A lunch break is called lunch. A smoko is just a break from work. It derives from a time when smoking was commonplace and has somehow stuck.

        Strewth and whack the diddle-o cobber. Are you coming the raw prawn? If so, I hope your chooks turn into emus and kick your dunny down.

        It isn't right either.

        Chooks is an interesting word.

        Not used in UK when talking about animals, but used when talking about a female (as is chicken/chick).

        Must have stole it from Oz.

        I loved your advert about chicken. If you don't eat it you're just weird lol
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      • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
        [QUOTE

        I hope your chooks turn into emus and kick your dunny down.


        [/QUOTE]

        is that from the bazza mckenzie movie?
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        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
          is that from the bazza mckenzie movie?
          I think that's where it originally came from.
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  • Is C2B2 in the new Star Wars movie?

    Cool thing about droids is, they can fit in anywhere on a beepity-boopity.

    "Brrrp-brrrp, beep-beep-beep-brrrp," is prolly gonna form the basis of all future discourse.
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    • Profile picture of the author agc
      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      "Brrrp-brrrp, beep-beep-beep-brrrp," is prolly gonna form the basis of all future discourse.
      It pretty much sums up all political discourse already.

      CNBC: Brrrp-brrrp
      Fox News: beep-beep-beep-brrrp
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      • Originally Posted by agc View Post

        It pretty much sums up all political discourse already.

        CNBC: Brrrp-brrrp
        Fox News: beep-beep-beep-brrrp
        Droid or politicoid, we r kinda binary in our finery.
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  • Ozi, that was unkind: you make a valid point, so let me qualify, seekin' loft of all surfaces from mire:

    omc the language is heart

    an' they figured this so early on

    flossifers

    poets an' shit

    ahead of all the schwango

    techin' out

    on bundlin' cheese

    as part of the deal


    Wanna say, I am not immediately dissin' on ya here, Ozi, I am jus' reactin' on the available possible of your commento, such is my fire right now.

    None of which is "cross over".

    (the possible)

    (not 'my fire')

    (dontcha jus' hate ambiguity?)

    I got born into the intenet, so I am switchin' on forward from here.

    It is not my fault I do not remember how stuff useta boostya.

    Can't fully cross.

    Imagry carries as a sweet sharp f*ck on the instantaneous forever right now, as forever it always did.

    IRL, tellya.

    Gotta listen hard to pulse good.

    Gotta pulse hard to be heard.

    I would love it so much if this were an eternal truth, cos it would save me from bein' a moron.

    But truth mutates with beautiful violence, mocking all profound quotations & invitin' them to proclaim their right to exist in the novel moment.

    Guess the thing about millennials is, we don't want no pedos to f*ck us, cos we can f*ck ourselves real good.

    Guess we gonna make our own mistakes in this unfoldin' languagescape of WHAT WE ALL WANNA.
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    • I have been evidently and shamefully abominable.

      I am on a fiery, moody, infantile roll today, and I am burning all innocents in my path as if they were summoned Satans.

      Takes a while for me to see this sometimes.

      Ozi, I respect the informed contribution you make to this (occasionally sinking) forum, and your comment reminds me that my flippant proclamations do not constitute any kind of universal truth, nor does my desire to voice them grace me with supremeness of overseer humanity.

      You have my sincere apologies. I was out of order.

      But:

      Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post

      IRL I just talk to my clients and prospects with respect....

      ...they understand.
      I reserve the right to remain unslain by the dagger of presumption, however justifiably it is drawn.

      I bled for a client all weekend to fix things up and make everything work.

      Yesterday, I skipped way too much food, but I moved stuff on where it had to go because my client is an angel and we are both passionate about our stuff.

      So I am duel wieldin' here, thanks to my own recklessness.

      On the one hand, I'm so glad you dropped in to the OT fun-for-all as a Boomer of Oz, and I understand that none of this would ever have gotten started without my audaciously insensitive txt-fling of

      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      ru such a fkr IRL?
      but time moves on, and I will not stand by and admit to irresponsibility towards my clients on the basis of either my own silence or another's comment.

      Of all weapons, the dagger of presumption is the sharpest blunt, the bluntest sharp.

      I do not care for the grind of its unsheathing, irrespective of circumstance.

      I do not deny I am a loudmouth with the capacity to offend.

      But I am not without the capacity to command respect for being an undeniable loudmouth.

      I will get down off my high horse now.

      And climb out of the pit he dug while I was thrashing him.

      Today, I am beyond all reason, with cavalier meticulousness.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Is this question for real?

    If you are talking about a difference - I assume you mean when people of English as a second language try to write in English. Yeah - I can spot it almost immediately. Word usage is much different - even between UK and American speakers you will see differences. You don't even have to read it - just browse the spelling.

    If you are talking about everyone writing in their own languages - no real difference in a skilled writer one country to the next. In fact - if an English first language speaking person were to try to write in any other language, the people who speak that language indigenously would also be able to tell the writer wasn't one of them. There's only so much you can hide lingustically.
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    • Profile picture of the author agc
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      If you are talking about everyone writing in their own languages - no real difference in a skilled writer one country to the next. In fact - if an English first language speaking person were to try to write in any other language, the people who speak that language indigenously would also be able to tell the writer wasn't one of them. There's only so much you can hide lingustically.
      Yah, but that question never comes up because you don't find any native English speakers offering to write "native Gujarati" for 1000 rupees on the lakh. And therefore you don't find any native English speakers getting offended when they are told they are unlikely to be mistaken for a native Gujarati writer.

      Honestly it sucks to be told you aren't good enough at your craft to get a certain job. But trust me they aren't telling you that because they want you to be inadequate or to fail. They really did want you to be capable and to succeed.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by agc View Post

        Yah, but that question never comes up because you don't find any native English speakers offering to write "native Gujarati" for 1000 rupees on the lakh. And therefore you don't find any native English speakers getting offended when they are told they are unlikely to be mistaken for a native Gujarati writer.

        Honestly it sucks to be told you aren't good enough at your craft to get a certain job. But trust me they aren't telling you that because they want you to be inadequate or to fail. They really did want you to be capable and to succeed.
        Give it time. Social structure is not stagnant. When Russia and China band together to form a reserve currency around the dollar and the good ole US and UK are nothing but third world smudge pots -- well, revenge is sweet. None of us will be able to handle Russian or Mandarin.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Give it time. Social structure is not stagnant. When Russia and China band together to form a reserve currency around the dollar and the good ole US and UK are nothing but third world smudge pots -- well, revenge is sweet. None of us will be able to handle Russian or Mandarin.
          You are likely right about mandarin, but I still have hope for RUSSIAN! BTW China recently got their currency declared a RESERVE currency! The Chinese renminbi joins the IMF

          Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by agc View Post

        Yah, but that question never comes up because you don't find any native English speakers offering to write "native Gujarati" for 1000 rupees on the lakh.
        MAYBE NOT, but you WILL find some native English speakers speaking indian languages, and even offering to write. But WHY claim to be native?

        And therefore you don't find any native English speakers getting offended when they are told they are unlikely to be mistaken for a native Gujarati writer.
        AGAIN, likely you are right, but they may be just as happy if you say the OPPOSITE!

        Honestly it sucks to be told you aren't good enough at your craft to get a certain job. But trust me they aren't telling you that because they want you to be inadequate or to fail. They really did want you to be capable and to succeed.
        HALF the job of writing is determining how to convey the idea. SOMETIMES it even dictates WHICH idea is to be conveyed!

        Steve
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  • We assume that world dominance will depend on economics or military might, but mebbe the key factor might turn out to be flexibility of sensibility as afforded by language.

    The most fluid becomes the most fluently spoken because tongues and minds find it and use it in preference to other options.

    I got no idea what benefits Mandarin or Russian have in this regard, but I figure English got great pliability an' potential for growth an' change.
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  • Profile picture of the author agc
    We already have a reserve currency around the dollar (EUR) and even in nations governed by law, they are still struggling to keep it together.

    I have little fear from a reserve currency formed by two nations "not governed by law" per below. They will never get it together in the first place, and even if they do, it won't stay glued together long enough to make a difference.

    They'll game each others position until they wind up in a war (either of arms or of silent gamesmanship) with each other rather than maintaining a united front against the US.

    They couldn't make it work under communism.

    And in the absence of a (reasonably) free market bounded by laws equally accessible to all participants, they won't make it work this time either.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by agc View Post

      We already have a reserve currency around the dollar (EUR) and even in nations governed by law, they are still struggling to keep it together.

      I have little fear from a reserve currency formed by two nations "not governed by law" per below. They will never get it together in the first place, and even if they do, it won't stay glued together long enough to make a difference.

      They'll game each others position until they wind up in a war (either of arms or of silent gamesmanship) with each other rather than maintaining a united front against the US.

      They couldn't make it work under communism.

      And in the absence of a (reasonably) free market bounded by laws equally accessible to all participants, they won't make it work this time either.
      Russia is no longer a communist country. It hasn't been for several decades now, and while they're still overcoming the infrastructural damage from the Stalinist era, they're doing it pretty rapidly. While China is moreso, it's also been a stable country for longer than we have. What we do have boiling in the UN (which is what I believe you are refering to as "law") is a growing disrespect for the US. Face it - that romance is over for us.

      What English has that neither China nor Russia have is an alphabet that's recognizable to the majority of the world.

      What China and some other countries with very similar languages use can't even be properly called an alphabet. Mandarin has a base of 50,000 symbols and tops off at 500,000. I can't see a major flow of the globe ever developing an interest in learning such a complex writing system. I think the best they can hope for from the rest of the world is that some people will be intersted in at least picking up a little of their spoken language.

      While Russia's alphabet (cyrillic), is only used in Russia and some of the Slavian nations - it's an actual alphabet of only around 35 or 36 characters (don't remember exactly), with 11 that are actually used in English, so are already familiar to most of the world. It is just as versatile a language as English. It's no harder to learn than English - if as hard. Because the country has been more Isolationist, most people haven't pursued learning that language.

      If the dollar drops out of reserve status - you may very well see Russian being a more popular language for college (or high school) students to pick up in their curriculum.

      Thinking that the dollar can't drop out of reserve status is an extremely ethnocentric idea. The US has lost a lot of world popularity during the last 40 years. Arabia isn't that popular either - and those are the two current ties on the petro-dollar. I don't see us being in the reserve for too much longer. If the structure of Opec gets shuffled somehow - or if other countries get tired of US tyranny and go around us on a monetary structure, we'll lose reserve status. It's that simple.

      Will we lose the global status of our language though? Because there are so many who speak English at this point, I think you'll find that it will take a long time for our linguistic lead ot subside, yet a change in reserve would put people to learning other languages right away, so losing linguistic dominance would just be a matter of time as all the non 1st language English speakers died off to change that.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Russia is no longer a communist country. It hasn't been for several decades now, and while they're still overcoming the infrastructural damage from the Stalinist era, they're doing it pretty rapidly. While China is moreso, it's also been a stable country for longer than we have. What we do have boiling in the UN (which is what I believe you are refering to as "law") is a growing disrespect for the US. Face it - that romance is over for us.

        What English has that neither China nor Russia have is an alphabet that's recognizable to the majority of the world.

        What China and some other countries with very similar languages use can't even be properly called an alphabet. Mandarin has a base of 50,000 symbols and tops off at 500,000. I can't see a major flow of the globe ever developing an interest in learning such a complex writing system. I think the best they can hope for from the rest of the world is that some people will be intersted in at least picking up a little of their spoken language.

        While Russia's alphabet (cyrillic), is only used in Russia and some of the Slavian nations - it's an actual alphabet of only around 35 or 36 characters (don't remember exactly), with 11 that are actually used in English, so are already familiar to most of the world. It is just as versatile a language as English. It's no harder to learn than English - if as hard. Because the country has been more Isolationist, most people haven't pursued learning that language.

        If the dollar drops out of reserve status - you may very well see Russian being a more popular language for college (or high school) students to pick up in their curriculum.

        Thinking that the dollar can't drop out of reserve status is an extremely ethnocentric idea. The US has lost a lot of world popularity during the last 40 years. Arabia isn't that popular either - and those are the two current ties on the petro-dollar. I don't see us being in the reserve for too much longer. If the structure of Opec gets shuffled somehow - or if other countries get tired of US tyranny and go around us on a monetary structure, we'll lose reserve status. It's that simple.

        Will we lose the global status of our language though? Because there are so many who speak English at this point, I think you'll find that it will take a long time for our linguistic lead ot subside, yet a change in reserve would put people to learning other languages right away, so losing linguistic dominance would just be a matter of time as all the non 1st language English speakers died off to change that.
        WELL SAID! I WILL say that the US EVEN TODAY is considered a superpower. It ALSO, EVEN TODAY, has a number of allies. And MOST computer languages are ENGLISH BASED! AND, to all the leaders in the free world, and some of those in the not so free world, I apologize for some of our "leaders" lately treating you in such a crass and/or thoughtless manner. It is astounding that people in such a position do so. Hopefully that will improve in a couple years.

        MOST electronics development at the lowest levels is likely ENGLISH based! ENGLISH uses MORE of the standard latin alphabet in its language that perhaps any other language and MOST that use the alphabet merely AUGMENT the alphabet. Such languages include Spanish, French, Italian, German, Danish and nearly all languages they are based on and that are based on them.

        All of that is a good reason to learn english. I would say the same if I had any other language as my first language. So HOPEFULLY english will GROW as a world language. Even PUTIN and Mitterrand can supposedly speak english. THAT says a lot right there.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author agc
    Here's one I came across today:

    http://www. best 4k tv comparison.com / samsung-un65ju6400-vs-samsung-un65ju6500-review/

    Samsung UN65JU6500 and UN65JU6400 are the entry level of 2015 model Samsung UHD TV lineup. A definite advantage of them compared to other Samsung’s 2015 65 Inch UHD TV is about their cheaper price. So, if you are searching 65 4K UHD TV with affordable price, maybe one of them can meet your need. So, what are their differences and which is a better choice? To know a lot, please click here to read Samsung UN65JU6400 vs Samsung UN65JU6500 Review below, who knows one of them is in accordance with your criteria. How much price is it for each? You need to know, when I was writing this comparison, both of these UN65JU6400 and UN65JU6500 are priced at about $2000. But of course, this price could still change at any time and usually tend to go down as time goes by like the price of other electronic device.
    I didn't even make it through the first paragraph before clicking off. Clearly, this person has never actually seen these in person. On top of that... "native writer"?

    note: I borked the link on purpose. no sense giving link juice to this clo... um. effort.
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  • Profile picture of the author EelKat
    I do a lot of reading and lurking around here, but rarely do I post much, I've read this thread a couple of times now and it was simply begging me to answer it, so here we go...

    First, I was born in America. My family has lived in America since 1530. So a long time.

    Secondly, I have and English degree from an American College.

    Third, I'm the author of 130 novels, 2,000 non-fiction articles, 600 short stories, a few dozen plays, and several comic book scripts including some for Disney's Ducks

    In short, if I was to place an ad, such as the types of ads you mention, I could very well, list myself as "Native English Speaker" of "American English" with a degree from an "American College" and follow that by samples of my very long list of published works.

    Hey, sounds good right?

    But would that mean I am either qualified or that I'm a good writer? No, not necessarily.

    Why? Well, let's look at some other facts about me.

    First, I have Autism, and I was a child in a time period where, school was considered not a possibility for "retards" like myself, and so, I was removed from school at age 8 years old. I did not start adult education night school until I was 35 and did not start college until I was 37.

    Secondly, be thankful my computer has spell check and I ran this post through it before posting it, because I have absolutely no ability to spell what so ever.

    Third, and this is the most important, I was born and raised in Maine, in an isolated community that has more in common with the Amish then any so called "average mainstream American" and my English, has more in common with Scots Language then it does American English. In college my spoken English mirrored Scots Language so much that the college had to find an ESL teacher to make attempts to translate my "Scottish English" into "American English" so that teachers could read my homework.

    Because I sound Scottish, have a thick Scottish accent, talk with Scottish idioms, write in Scottish English, and even dress Scottish (wearing clan Lewis of McLeod day glow yellow tartan), MOST of the professors and other students ASSUMED I was from Scotland and were blown over to learn that not only was I a Native Mainer, but my family has lived in Maine since 1530, never once setting foot off our farm or having any contact with "outsiders" in nearly 500 years.

    We've lived here since the British dumped our Scottish Gypsies asses here in 1530, for the sin of having been born Scottish, and our VERY isolated communities are seen by most Americans as more extreme and stopped in time then the Amish.


    What does this have to do with your question?

    Well the thing of it is - I'm considered an American, because I was born here, doesn't matter that I've never had contact with mainstream Americans and live in an isolated community that boarders on being a cult compound.

    I'm an "Native English Speaker", it doesn't matter that the average American can't tell a word I'm saying when I speak vocally. It doesn't matter that I use a different ALPHABET then they do, or that if I was to say:

    "I drove my car up to Bangor to buy a lobster, hen stopped off at Bar Harbor for some Moxie and clam chowder."

    They are just going to star at me and go:

    "What dd she say?"
    "I don't know."
    "Is she Scottish?"
    "Gotta be."
    "I love the accent, wish I knew what she was saying."

    The Scottish Gypsies of Maine are NOT the only "American" "Native English Speakers" whose English is so far off the mainstream that the average English speaker thinks they are illiterate "mountain folk" (as most Americans refer to both my people and the way we talk and write.)

    My point being, that calling yourself an "Native Speaker" or "American" don't mean squat, because the "standard" of your English is determined by the region and culture you grew up in.

    --------

    All right - and NOW to REALLY answer your question, let's "translate" everything I just wrote. Why? Because I am a "Native English" speaker, 15th generation American, and had you been talking to me, up here in Maine, in person, rather then reading what I typed on a forum... here's what you would have heard me say...
    --------

    Ayah, I does do a wicked awful bloody lot o reading un lurking around dis heres place, but rarely does I evah be feeling da needs to post much, eh? I has done gone an read dis heres a thread o yars a few couple o times 'round the block now an it were simply begging me ta answer its blooming bleeding bahookie, so here we go...

    First, I were bahn in Amahica. me family has gone un livit in Amahica since 1530. So de lang time, eh?

    Secondly, I has gone un de English degree from de Amahican College.

    Third, I be da authah o 130 novels, 2,000 non-fiction ahticles, 600 shaht stahies, de few dozen plays, un sevahal comic buik scripts including some fah da Disney us Ducks, eh?

    In shaht, iffy I were ta place an ad, such as da types o ads ya mention, I coulds wickit well, list meself as "Native English Speakah" o "Amahican English" wid de de degree from an "Amahican College" un follow dat by samples o me wickit lang list o publishit wahks.

    Hey, sounds guid dair, eh?

    Boot woulds dat mean I does be wicked qualifiit ah dat I be de guid writah, eh? Nay, it do no.

    Why, eh? Well, let us luik at some othah facts aboot me, eh?

    First, I has gone un de Autism, un I were de child in de time pahiod whahe, schuil were considahit na de possibility fah "retahds" like meself, un so, I were removit from schuil at de wee age 8 yeahs ald. I dids na staht adult education night schuil until I were 35 yeahs ald un dids na staht college until I were 37 yeahs ald.

    Secondly, be thankful me computah has gone un got itself a spell check un I ran this post through it befahe posting it, eh? Cause I has gone un de absolutely nay ability ta spell what so evah.

    Third, un this be da most impahtant, I were bahn un raisit in Maine, in an isolatit community dat has gone un mahe in common wid de da Amish den any so callit "avahage mainstream Amahican" un me English, has gone un mahe in common wid de Scots Language den it do de Amahican English. In college me spoken English mirrahit Scots Language so danged much dat da college had ta find an ESL teachah ta make attempts ta translate me "Scottish English" into de "Amahican English" so dat teachahs coulds read me homewahk.

    Cause I be sounding Scottish un has gone un de wicked thick Scottish accent un talk wid de Scottish idioms un write in Scottish English un even dress Scottish (weahing clan Lewis o McLeod dah glow yellow tahtan), MOST o da proessahs un othah students ASSUMIT I were from de Scotland un wahe blown ovah ta leahn dat na only were I de Native Mainah, but me family has gone un livit in Maine since 1530, nevah once setting fuit of our fahm ah having any contact wid de "ootsidahs" in neahly 500 yeahs.

    We has gone un livit hahe since da British dumpit our Scottish Gypsies bahookies hahe in 1530, fah da sin o having been bahn Scottish, un our wickit isolatit communities ahe seen by most Amahicans as mahe extreme un stoppit in time den da Amish, eh?


    What does this has gone un de ta do wid de ye question, eh?

    Ayha, well da ting o it be - I be considahit an Amahican, cause iffy I were bahn hahe does'na mattah dat I has gone un nevah had contact wid de mainstream Amahicans un live in an isolatit community dat boahdahs on being de cult compound.

    I be an "Native English Speakah", it does'na mattah dat da avahage Amahican ca'na tell de wahd I be saying when I speaka ta dem vocally. It do'na mattah dat I use de diffahent ALPHABET den dey do, ah dat iffy I were ta say:

    "I drove me cah up de road aways ta de Bangah ta buys me de lobstah un den I stoppit aff at de Bah Hahbah fah ta buys some o dems Moxie un a clam chowdah, eh?"

    Dey ahe just gonna ta stah at me un go:

    "What did she say?"
    "I don't know."
    "Is she Scottish?"
    "Gotta be."
    "I love the accent, wish I knew what she was saying."

    da Scottish Gypsies o Maine ahe na da only "Amahican" "Native English Speakahs" whose English be so fah aff da mainstream dat da avahage English speakah tinks dey ahe illitahate "mountain folk" (as most Amahicans refah ta both me people un da way we talk un write.)

    me point being, dat calling yaself de "Native Speakah" o de "Amahican" do'na mean squat, cause da "standahd" o ye English do be detahminit by da region un de culture ya grews up in, eh?


    --------

    Alrighty now - an NOWS the time to REALLY answer ye question, let us "translate" everyting I has just gone done an writ, eh? Why ye ask? Well, because I be one of dems "Native English" speakers of which ya speak, I is 15th generation American, an had ya been talking to me, up heres in me Maine, in person, rather then reading what I gone done an typed on this here forum... here be whats ya would has gone an heard me says t ya...
    --------

    Sure, Scottish English is one of the most extreme versions of English, but that fact is, I'm an American, I have an English degree, I'm a native English Speaker, and the second half of this post, is what ALL my posts and manuscripts look like UNEDITED.

    And YES - all those spellings and grammar usages, ARE considered CORRECT and ARE in fact taught in schools here in Scottish communities Maine as PROPER ENGLISH.

    Yay for Scottish non-conformity!

    The short of this post is, that in answer to your question:

    Originally Posted by davidhorph View Post

    I've been seeing these posts (usually in "Warriors For Hire") where many writers will advertise themselves as:

    "Native English speaking writer" or...,

    "American writer" or...

    "Writer educated in American University with degree in English".

    And I was kind of wondering... is there really that much of a difference in terms of writing skills between, say, a U.S. born writer and a really talented writer who was not born in the United States or U.K. (and has never lived in either of these countries)?

    That is, let's say someone looked at a random article, e-book or even sales copy... can they accurately guess whether the content was written by a U.S./UK writer or a writer from another country?
    Yes. Yes you can tell.
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    • Originally Posted by EelKat View Post

      The short of this post is, that in answer to your question:
      Yes. Yes you can tell.
      Gotta love your messageflippery right here, an' I guess we gotta question whether universality of message demands a little humility sometimes.

      Lingo flingo where ya need to wingo.

      Anyone wants to sell me steroids gotta fluid on up on my joie de wtf or I will spend my cash on floozytrash.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
        Just one word in this tells me it's not American:

        A new way to browse and interact with Warrior Forum. We've categorised the content to make it easy for you to find the best, new and upcoming discussion with a single click.
        Even the text editor here has a red line under the word.
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        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
          Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

          Just one word in this tells me it's not American:
          Categorised.
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  • Profile picture of the author writeaway
    From my experience as an American writer living overseas, it boils down to TWO key points of difference: idiomatic expressions and SWAGGER.

    There's a certain CONFIDENCE you get from the native English speaker text.
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  • Profile picture of the author mohsin qureshi
    There are some diffrence in the languages of both countries. Speakers of American English generally use the present perfect tense (have/has + past participle) far less than speakers of British English. In spoken American English it is very common to use the simple past tense as an alternative in situations where the present perfect would usually have been used in British English.
    Some examples are as under: -
    American English / British English
    • Jenny feels ill. She ate too much.
    • Jenny feels ill. She's eaten too much.
    • I can't find my keys. Did you see them anywhere?
    • I can't find my keys. Have you seen them anywhere?
    In British English collective nouns, (i.e. nouns referring to particular groups of people or things), (e.g. staff , government, class, team) can be followed by a singular or plural verb depending on whether the group is thought of as one idea, or as many individuals
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by mohsin qureshi View Post

      Speakers of American English generally use the present perfect tense (have/has + past participle) far less than speakers of British English etc.
      And some new members think the rest of us can't spot an obviously copied and pasted article.

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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by mohsin qureshi View Post

      There are some diffrence in the languages of both countries. Speakers of American English generally use the present perfect tense (have/has + past participle) far less than speakers of British English. In spoken American English it is very common to use the simple past tense as an alternative in situations where the present perfect would usually have been used in British English.
      Some examples are as under: -
      American English / British English
      • Jenny feels ill. She ate too much.
      • Jenny feels ill. She's eaten too much.
      • I can't find my keys. Did you see them anywhere?
      • I can't find my keys. Have you seen them anywhere?
      In British English collective nouns, (i.e. nouns referring to particular groups of people or things), (e.g. staff , government, class, team) can be followed by a singular or plural verb depending on whether the group is thought of as one idea, or as many individuals
      GEE, I have switched back and forth between"british grammar" and "American Grammar" so many times and never knew it! So which tense isn't allowed in the US? AND, in the US, SOME cultures mix the future subjunctive with the simple past in English. If you want me to do that, FORGET IT.

      BTW your illustration indicates that Americans either don't use the past or don't use the present perfect. So NEVER ate roots of a pine tree. I ALSO HAVEN'T EVER eaten roots of a pine tree!

      Steve
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  • It is hard to distinguish who is an American writer and who is not, until, probably we hear him/her speak. Then again, we can never tell the difference.

    "The road to success is not easy to navigate, but with hard work, drive and passion, it's possible to achieve the American dream." ~ Tommy Hilfiger
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  • Profile picture of the author Marvin Adam
    Since English is one of the easiest languages in the world,
    I don't see why one would always be able to tell a difference there.

    Apparently for speaking that's a different thing though ...
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  • It's really hard to different American writer from the rest. This is the digital age.
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    • Profile picture of the author agc
      Originally Posted by americanclassifieds View Post

      It's really hard to different American writer from the rest. This is the digital age.
      Or maybe it's not very hard at all. lol
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      One man's terrorist is another man's patriot

      Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground - Frederick Douglas

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