COP21 Climate Change Summit Reaches Deal In Paris

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At last, something good..

COP21 climate change summit reaches deal in Paris - BBC News

Large methane emissions from Wooster Ohio will be the first thing to be dealt with.
  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    The trick now is to actually make it work.
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

      The trick now is to actually make it work.
      It's still a fart in the right direction.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        The most dangerous part here, is that they think they are doing something. It relieves the pressure to really act.
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        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
          Well, we have to remember that even if we go through a mini ice age, there is still enough heat stored in the ocean depths to kill off most of humanity!

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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            $100 billion a year in climate finance for developing countries by 2020, with a commitment to further finance in the future.
            And - who pays the $100 billion - and who is on the receiving end of the money?

            China was at the conference but at the same time schools there and businesses had to close due to the dangerous smog levels.
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            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              And - who pays the $100 billion - and who is on the receiving end of the money?

              China was at the conference but at the same time schools there and businesses had to close due to the dangerous smog levels.
              Probably why they finally agreed to sign up.

              Changing the infrastructure of the world is not going to be cheap, but think of the alternative.
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            • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              And - who pays the $100 billion - and who is on the receiving end of the money?
              Polluting corporations. They f***ed it, they fix it.
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            • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              And - who pays the $100 billion -

              Primarily, the US taxpayer.


              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              and who is on the receiving end of the money?

              US politicians and friends of US politicians.



              Joe Mobley
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              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                Primarily, the US taxpayer.





                US politicians and friends of US politicians.



                Joe Mobley
                Have a link to the breakdown of how much each country pays or is this just speculation and/or rhetoric?
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                • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  or is this just speculation and/or rhetoric?
                  Yes, based on recent US history.


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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Well you know it's a bunch of crap.

    Do you really think China or India will stop ignoring the environment & lose billions of dollars in business? Both those countries depend on the rest of the world that has laws that make manufacturing in their own countries financially out of reach. Nobody is giving up their toxic iphone battery for clear skies in China.

    There's a reason China is a hazardous waste dump, THEY DON'T CARE.

    The Paris meeting was nothing more than a bunch of old fogies blowing smoke.

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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      And - who pays the $100 billion - and who is on the receiving end of the money?

      China was at the conference but at the same time schools there and businesses had to close due to the dangerous smog levels.
      Each country would p***, ahem, contribute what they could, so we can keep this load,....life threatening subject in the forefrount of the Flouride and tv numbed su,.....concerned public.

      You have to remember that there is still enough heat stored in the planet, to kill us off,....well, somewhere?


      But l do agree, even if Australia was 100% green, we would only reduce greenhouse emissions by 4%, and China churns out 30% and growing.

      Without China and the US, (not sure about Russia) on board, it is pretty useless, in global terms.

      In ten years time when oil starts to run out, then we will finally get serious change, not the dodgy green BS we currently get!

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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    WHAT is it about the number 21? Are they trying to just make it clear these are part of a whole? I mean the UNs plan to basically destroy the planet as we know it is AGENDA21. One of their singularly(BOTH meanings) hypocritical documents is COP21! I mean they have ALL these people FLY OVER to that place? Let;s see! FOR the ONE us guy to go down there, though he had NO business being there, required the effort of no less than 3 747s, so the fuel cost was well over a million dollars. How much pollution must it have produced? And that is just for STARTERS! Don't forget the large cars driving around for so long, etc...

    And they CLAIM they want to help the poor with the internet and computers, but HOW will they be powered? I mean if you are going to:


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    No green before it's time. It's just not sustainable.
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      No green before it's time. It's just not sustainable.
      No truer quote for this though "Necessity Is The Mother of Invention"
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        No truer quote for this though "Necessity Is The Mother of Invention"
        For this, I'm afraid this "Necessity" isn't immediate enough for most people. Warming isn't an event. It's a gradual catastrophic juggernaut.

        This morning, in Wooster Ohio, it's 60 degrees out. On December 13. We should be having a snow storm. I know weather isn't climate.

        But the weathergirl was saying "Boy, I hope this great weather lasts the whole winter"

        No, you don't.

        I notice that climatologists are still wary of talking about people dying. We hear about crops failing, droughts, floods......but folks, if it's 150 degrees outside...even for a day... we die.
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        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          For this, I'm afraid this "Necessity" isn't immediate enough for most people. Warming isn't an event. It's a gradual catastrophic juggernaut.

          This morning, in Wooster Ohio, it's 60 degrees out. On December 13. We should be having a snow storm. I know weather isn't climate.

          But the weathergirl was saying "Boy, I hope this great weather lasts the whole winter"

          No, you don't.

          I notice that climatologists are still wary of talking about people dying. We hear about crops failing, droughts, floods......but folks, if it's 150 degrees outside...even for a day... we die.
          True. A recent article from a British reporter said Americans obsess about the weather more than the climate, Perhaps it's because you live in a mainly temperate zone and when you get extreme weather from time to time it's a big deal, more so than us. I suppose in the UK we expect it to be rainy, cool and overcast most of the time and see a sunny day as a bonus. But, when that bonus comes and lasts a while then it really comes home how ill prepared we are for it.

          On the bad weather side though, we have all our electricity on 100 ft steel pylons and rarely lose power for long. No 20 feet wooden poles next to trees.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

            True. A recent article from a British reporter said Americans obsess about the weather more than the climate, Perhaps it's because you live in a mainly temperate zone and when you get extreme weather from time to time it's a big deal, more so than us. I suppose in the UK we expect it to be rainy, cool and overcast most of the time and see a sunny day as a bonus. But, when that bonus comes and lasts a while then it really comes home how ill prepared we are for it.

            On the bad weather side though, we have all our electricity on 100 ft steel pylons and rarely lose power for long. No 20 feet wooden poles next to trees.
            We don't judge our pylons by length, but by thickness. Get with the program.

            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

            True. A recent article from a British reporter said Americans obsess about the weather more than the climate,.
            Honestly, I think it's because we aren't as educated. We still have a section of the population that is anti-science. And that ignorance is impenetrable.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      No green before it's time. It's just not sustainable.
      But polluting our air, water and soil is?
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        But polluting our air, water and soil is?
        The not sustainable was a play on words, but we've seen companies supported
        that, at worst, are not sustainable, or at best are before their time.

        We just don't need more propped up green energy companies and initiatives that have
        technology that will not be viable soon enough - or ever. Or, are just money making
        schemes or "give a nephew a job for a while" type of thing for the supporters.

        There's a local business man here trying to put squirrel cage type wind power on top of
        of a mountain that you cannot access 9 to 10 months of the year. When you can, it's not
        easy access. If working properly, their contribution would be negligible and they will likely
        be inoperable frequently - and not easily accessible for repair.

        Wind power needs wind and solar power needs sun. They both need storage capacity
        (use up whatever resources that make batteries or capacitors) and they both need
        back up power in most cases.

        But, there is promising technology:

        An engineer friend of mine helped develop a gasification plant that can turn about any
        substance into fuel. They sell some jet fuel now, I believe.

        Another engineer friend talks about emerging technology that will efficiently turn water
        into electricity. It sounded like something other than fission or fusion.

        Fossil fuels are cheap and as long as that remains so, we're not going to quickly change
        directions to alternatives.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          The not sustainable was a play on words, but we've seen companies supported
          that, at worst, are not sustainable, or at best are before their time.
          Yep, there's been some bad investments, but there's been far more good ones. Let's not simply cherry-pick the losers.

          We just don't need more propped up green energy companies and initiatives that have
          technology that will not be viable soon enough - or ever. Or, are just money making
          schemes or "give a nephew a job for a while" type of thing for the supporters.

          We also don't need to prop up Big Oil with a lower tax rate than competing energy industries get, especially considering Big Oil is the most profitable industry in the history of man kind.



          There's a local business man here trying to put squirrel cage type wind power on top of
          of a mountain that you cannot access 9 to 10 months of the year. When you can, it's not
          easy access. If working properly, their contribution would be negligible and they will likely
          be inoperable frequently - and not easily accessible for repair.
          And there's a number of creative people making huge improvements with green energy.


          Wind power needs wind and solar power needs sun. They both need storage capacity
          (use up whatever resources that make batteries or capacitors) and they both need
          back up power in most cases.
          As I've pointed out a number of times before, Elon Musk's batteries may solve many of the energy storage problems. Super salts also store heat from solar very well and can be used to generate steam to power generators long after the sun is down. Combined, they offer a lot of promise.


          And oil needs drilling and transportation, refining, etc.


          But, there is promising technology:

          An engineer friend of mine helped develop a gasification plant that can turn about any
          substance into fuel. They sell some jet fuel now, I believe.

          Another engineer friend talks about emerging technology that will efficiently turn water
          into electricity. It sounded like something other than fission or fusion.
          Yes, there's a number of potential solutions. For fuels it will also come down to emissions as well as things like taking resources away from producing food, etc.



          Fossil fuels are cheap and as long as that remains so, we're not going to quickly change
          directions to alternatives.
          Fossil fuels being "cheap" is only if we ignore the real costs. If the tax breaks and health costs are factored in, they aren't so cheap. This doesn't include the military expenses we have spent, and continue to spend, protecting Big Oil's interests in the Middle East. And these expenses are not just monetary, they also include lives and limbs.


          And none of my points have even take into consideration Global Warming, which possibly has caused lots of weather related destruction and will likely cause even more in the future.


          Carbon based fuels aren't nearly as inexpensive as the price at the pump makes many of us believe. There's many other expenses that aren't included.


          On top of all of this is China has finally realized the true costs of all their pollution. This has caused them to greatly increase their production of solar cells/panels, causing the cost of solar systems to drastically fall.


          And, this decrease in solar prices from China is a primary factor in many of the US solar manufacturers to fail. So it isn't really accurate to say that some US solar businesses have failed due to technology. They've actually failed because of economics and the low costs of Chinese solar systems.


          You can now get solar panels for about 75 cents per watt, and in some cases even cheaper. Add this to education about being more energy efficient (like using black window shades in winter and white in summer) and we can greatly reduce our pollution.


          There's also things like coal powered electrical plants and wasted energy. It's more effective to keep the generators running all the time than turning them off, then back on. At night, very little electricity is used compared to peak day time hours, but the generators keep running, producing electricity that isn't used.


          With Musk's industrial battery systems to store electricity, along with encouraging people to use electricity during off peak hours (like putting timers on washers and dryers and charging electric cars), we can use a lot less fuel while still using the same amount of electricity.


          How about encouraging businesses not to let every worker off at the same time so there is less traffic congestion during "rush hour"? There's a lot of energy wasted because everyone tries to go home at the same time.
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        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          We just don't need more propped up green energy companies
          So, we should keep on propping up fossil fuel companies, including, but not limited to, invading foreign lands to maintain the supply of said fuels.

          We need that even less.

          We are on the cusp of a new industrial revolution. A lot of companies, technologies and ideas will emerge and die as they have with every new wave of technological advancement.
          .

          Look at how many car manufacturers rose and died in the early 1900's. Look at how many dot coms rose and died at the turn of this century. Look at how many search engines there were not so long ago.

          This is no different. A lot of ideas both good and bad will emerge and die over the next decade or so. Eventually we'll be left with the best of these ideas and we'll wonder how we ever managed without them. Just as we did with cars, the internet, smartphones etc., etc., etc..

          The only difference between then and now is that what was replaced wasn't going to kill most forms of life on the only home we have.

          Adapt or perish.
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          • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
            My full quote - not conveniently snipped:

            Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

            We just don't need more propped up green energy companies and initiatives that have
            technology that will not be viable soon enough - or ever. Or, are just money making
            schemes or "give a nephew a job for a while" type of thing for the supporters.
            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

            So, we should keep on propping up fossil fuel companies, including, but not limited to, invading foreign lands to maintain the supply of said fuels.

            We need that even less.

            We are on the cusp of a new industrial revolution. A lot of companies, technologies and ideas will emerge and die as they have with every new wave of technological advancement.
            .

            Look at how many car manufacturers rose and died in the early 1900's. Look at how many dot coms rose and died at the turn of this century. Look at how many search engines there were not so long ago.

            This is no different. A lot of ideas both good and bad will emerge and die over the next decade or so. Eventually we'll be left with the best of these ideas and we'll wonder how we ever managed without them. Just as we did with cars, the internet, smartphones etc., etc., etc..

            The only difference between then and now is that what was replaced wasn't going to kill most forms of life on the only home we have.

            Adapt or perish.
            I did not say a word about continuing to prop up fossil fuel companies.

            Switching from fossil fuel technology and economies will not be easy or
            happen overnight. Nor would it be a good idea to pull the plug on a the economy
            of a country that is mainly based upon fossil fuels before they have strength in
            other areas - seems like it would and does cause a lot of unrest and poverty and so on...
            Also, I sure don't want to be the one to be a threat to Russia's fossil fuel revenues.

            In a nutshell, it's a geopolitical economic web beyond implementing green tech.

            I just want promising green tech to be supported as needed (ideally without corruption).
            Of course, there will be green tech that looks good but turns out otherwise, or has
            unintended and/or unanticipated consequences.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Over 190 countries agreeing to do something about this big problem is definitely a step in the right direction.

    But will it be the start of a process that will eventually be enough to overcome the deniers and their enablers - before they eventually kill us all and/or help turn life on this planet into something from a horror movie?

    I am constantly amazed at the brazenness of the (insulting to our intelligence) denials from some the folks at national leadership positions and even more amazed at the callous indifference of their enablers.

    The enablers with their small picture, childish admonitions, naysaying, infantile cherry picking along with they're not doing it - so we shouldn't do it logic, and snarkiness (the Eyore - from Winnie the Pooh - complex) on this oh so important issue will spell doom for the rest of us and our posterity - if they are allowed to continue to gum up the works. But alas, that is the role they have consciously decided to play with this critical issue on planet Earth circa 2015.

    It is almost as if they are the last of their line and are trying to take everyone else down with them. LOL!

    And...

    It is surely a crying shame that it will not be only they, and they alone who reap the whirlwind of their very dangerous mindsets.


    Wow.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Over 190 countries agreeing to do something about this big problem is definitely a step in the right direction.

      But will it be the start of a process that will eventually be enough to overcome the deniers and their enablers - before they eventually kill us all and/or help turn life on this planet into something from a horror movie?

      I am constantly amazed at the brazenness of the (insulting to our intelligence) denials from some the folks at national leadership positions and even more amazed at the callous indifference of their enablers.

      The enablers with their small picture, childish admonitions, naysaying, infantile cherry picking and snarkiness (the Eyore - from Winnie the Pooh - complex) on this oh so important issue will spell doom for the rest of us and our posterity - if they are allowed to continue to gum up the works. But alas, that is the role they have consciously decided to play with this critical issue on planet Earth circa 2015.

      It is almost as if they are the last of their line and are trying to take everyone else down with them. LOL!

      And...

      It is surely a crying shame that it will not be only they, and they alone who reap the whirlwind of their very dangerous mindsets.


      Wow.
      But they ******AREN'T***** agreeing to do something! The FIRST step in such a thing would be collecting relevant things they can contribute. Have they done that? ***************NO*************!
      The SECOND STEP would be a central database that ALL could and would contribute to! Have they done THAT? ***************NO*************!

      NOW, lets' go to scam mode! The first step is to widely advertise an elite meeting, or the fact that that has happened. DID IT? YEP! NOTE, an ELITE meeting means a lot of info will NOT be presented, so they have FAILED!

      The SECOND step is to plan a great vacation getaway, and plan it for the week! Did they do THAT? YEP! NOTE, this means an INCREASE in waste and CO2. #44 HIMSELF put out more CO2 than I have likely put out for EVERYTHING I have done in the past DECADE before he even got there!

      The THIRD step is to have everyone go down primarily to enjoy whatever. Did they do THAT? YEP!
      Did I say #44 HIMSELF? OK, add in all those OTHERS and the support staff and the media and all the other things!

      It could take them over a year of 100% success to undo all the harm they did with that meeting. And it WILL take probably over a decade to meet that point if they are 100% serious. I ASSURE you, they are NOT serious! They just want the control and taxes.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        But they ******AREN'T***** agreeing to do something! The FIRST step in such a thing would be collecting relevant things they can contribute. Have they done that? ***************NO*************!
        The SECOND STEP would be a central database that ALL could and would contribute to! Have they done THAT? ***************NO*************!

        NOW, lets' go to scam mode! The first step is to widely advertise an elite meeting, or the fact that that has happened. DID IT? YEP! NOTE, an ELITE meeting means a lot of info will NOT be presented, so they have FAILED!

        The SECOND step is to plan a great vacation getaway, and plan it for the week! Did they do THAT? YEP! NOTE, this means an INCREASE in waste and CO2. #44 HIMSELF put out more CO2 than I have likely put out for EVERYTHING I have done in the past DECADE before he even got there!

        The THIRD step is to have everyone go down primarily to enjoy whatever. Did they do THAT? YEP!
        Did I say #44 HIMSELF? OK, add in all those OTHERS and the support staff and the media and all the other things!

        It could take them over a year of 100% success to undo all the harm they did with that meeting. And it WILL take probably over a decade to meet that point if they are 100% serious. I ASSURE you, they are NOT serious! They just want the control and taxes.

        Steve
        Yes, SITS, (Snout In the Trough Syndrome) is a tough habit to break!

        More likely that they will fill in the gaps with dodgy green energy until they get Fission up and running?

        And hope that the oil doesn't run out til then?

        After all pouring billions into a new way to generate power, (which still has serious plasma containment issues) is much better than pouring millions into magnetic systems?

        Especially when a house owner will build his own?

        And it isn't even worth mentioning Tesslers circuit using the sun to generate reliable, free energy forever!

        The last one makes too much sense, for these, F**** to consider?

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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post


          And it isn't even worth mentioning Tesslers circuit using the sun to generate reliable, free energy forever!
          Tesla circuit.
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          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Tesla circuit.
            Tessler was his sister
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            • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
              Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

              Tessler was his sister
              I did not know that the Australian language had the gender thing going on.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                I did not know that the Australian language had the gender thing going on.
                I can only repeat rumors I've heard, but I think Australians still have genders.

                Englishmen however, with their frilly shirts, whips, powdered wigs, ball gags, pantaloons, bubble wrap suits, and tea time?

                Not so sure.

                Not that there is anything wrong with that.
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                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  I can only repeat rumors I've heard, but I think Australians still have genders.

                  Englishmen however, with their frilly shirts, whips, powdered wigs, ball gags, pantaloons, bubble wrap suits, and tea time?

                  Not so sure.

                  Not that there is anything wrong with that.
                  I resent that. We stopped wearing powdered wigs weeks ago.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                    I resent that. We stopped wearing powdered wigs weeks ago.
                    I meant the ones you wear on your head. Your little "ACME Naughty Place Powdered Wigs" aren't fooling anyone.

                    You stopped wearing powdered wigs, when George Washington freed the wigs. Of course, you spell it "whigs".

                    The only reason we're here is that you sent over your rapists, murderers, and sure, I'm sure some of them were good people. But you didn't send us your best people. Most of the people you sent over here were probably terrorists.

                    You sent us The Beatles, and that "Rock and Roll" devil music ruined the youth of America.

                    And that's why this country can't make a decent donut.

                    We do appreciate that you sent us all your dentists, though.

                    I know my history.
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                    • Profile picture of the author yukon
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                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      We do appreciate that you sent us all your dentists, though.
                      [takes off gloves]
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                    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      I know my history.
                      You know squat.

                      It is well known the British shipped all their "naughty place powdered wigs" to the new colonies just south of Canada.

                      As everyone knows, a wig for the "naughty places" is called a merkin.

                      The people of Canada, who, quite rightly,, looked down their noses at the residents of South Canada, referred to the South Canadians as Merkins.

                      Because the people of South Canada have never been able to speak or spell English properly, they mis-interpreted this derogatory term and it morphed into Americans.

                      So, when King George III finally had enough of "merkins" trashing the language of Shakespeare, he kicked them out of the British Empire, and renamed South Canada as the United States Of Merkins. As was to be expected the "merkins' completely mis-spelt their country's name as the United States Of America.

                      And that's the way it really happened.

                      I know my history.
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                      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                        And you only need about 400 of them to charge a single 12v car battery. I'm not sure how long it will take...how many amps?
                        Not sure about the AMPS part?

                        But it would take 360 of them!

                        Although Tesla's setup which was using very large capacitors, powered an electric car for 80 kms, on one charge, in the 1920's.

                        So it obviously, (probably because of lack of space) couldn't replace the battery, but provided enough charge for that time, to go almost 80 km.

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                        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                          Not sure about the AMPS part?

                          But it would take 360 of them!

                          Although Tesla's setup which was using very large capacitors, powered an electric car for 80 kms, on one charge, in the 1920's.

                          So it obviously, (probably because of lack of space) couldn't replace the battery, but provided enough charge for that time, to go almost 80 km.

                          Amperage is an essential part of the equation. It tells us how fast the system will charge a typical 12v battery used in a car in the US.


                          Does your system create 12.8 volts (about right for charging a 12v battery) at .1 amps or at 10 amps?


                          At .1 amps, it could take a few weeks to fully charge the battery, if the battery was at 50%. I'm not even sure at this amperage it would even maintain a battery, let alone charge one.


                          On the other hand, if your system has 15 amps, it would probably take around 4 hours to fully charge a car battery that's about 50% charged.


                          Of course, you can set up multiple systems in parallel (or is it in series? It's been a long time since I had this in school.) to increase the amps.


                          There's solar car battery chargers for about $20 with 18v and 5 watts which is about .28 amps. These are intended to maintain fully charged car/boat batteries and not charge drained batteries.


                          So, what's the amperage of your system and how much does it cost?
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                        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                          Not sure about the AMPS part?
                          Oh dear.

                          A system that will revolutionise the world and provide everyone with free energy for ever and yet vital technical details are unknown.

                          Oh dear.

                          In the meantime we have solar, wind and other methods were all of these details are known. It's probably better to stick with them I guess.
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                      • Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                        As everyone knows, a wig for the "naughty places" is called a merkin.
                        Hey, can you get baldo versions of those, like regular wigs?

                        I wanna do more swimmin' in the new year an' I am checkin' out the stylin' options.
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                        • Profile picture of the author DJL
                          Is there anyone in the environmental movement whose job is to say, "Wait a minute. You're going too far. There's such a thing as truth"?
                          The Religion of the Environmentalists
                          -- Stephen Cox, editor of Liberty (12/8/2015)
                          See more at: The Religion of the Environmentalists | Liberty Unbound
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                          • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                            Originally Posted by DJL View Post

                            Is there anyone in the environmental movement whose job is to say, "Wait a minute. You're going too far. There's such a thing as truth"?
                            The Religion of the Environmentalists
                            -- Stephen Cox, editor of Liberty (12/8/2015)
                            See more at: The Religion of the Environmentalists | Liberty Unbound
                            ROFLMAO. Describing science as a "religion". Priceless satire.
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                            • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
                              Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                              ROFLMAO. Describing science as a "religion". Priceless satire.
                              I didn't see anywhere that the article described science as religion.

                              It did, though, compare environmental science zealots to religious zealots which, from a sideline view, I find to be an apt comparison. Similarities between the two are striking.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

                                I didn't see anywhere that the article described science as religion.

                                It did, though, compare environmental science zealots to religious zealots which, from a sideline view, I find to be an apt comparison. Similarities between the two are striking.
                                In other words, it was a combo of red herring, non-sequitur and ad hominem fallacies and offered no actual facts to support his opinion. The author also makes up a number of "reasons" those of us that are concerned about the environment have never made.


                                I don't have kids. There's enough stuff for me for my life time. My concern is for YOUR kids. Too bad many want to insult me and make things up for caring about YOUR kids. Even if I'm wrong about global warning, stop insulting my motives.


                                This is similar to saying the deniers are ostriches with their heads in the sand. The problem with this analogy is that ostriches really don't put their head in the sand.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                            Originally Posted by DJL View Post

                            Is there anyone in the environmental movement whose job is to say, "Wait a minute. You're going too far. There's such a thing as truth"?
                            The Religion of the Environmentalists
                            -- Stephen Cox, editor of Liberty (12/8/2015)
                            See more at: The Religion of the Environmentalists | Liberty Unbound
                            Unlike Big Oil's patsies,...everybody.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                            Originally Posted by DJL View Post

                            Is there anyone in the environmental movement whose job is to say, “Wait a minute. You’re going too far. There’s such a thing as truth"?
                            The Religion of the Environmentalists
                            -- Stephen Cox, editor of Liberty (12/8/2015)
                            See more at: The Religion of the Environmentalists | Liberty Unbound
                            I'm glad you posted this. At first I thought it was satire. It was well written, and had a sort of twisted logic to it.
                            But the premise isn't true. So everything that comes after that, is faulty.
                            The examples are all analogies. That fact alone signals me that the argument is weak. When reality is on your side, you can just state facts and figures.

                            Kurt called it, " a combo of red herring, non-sequitur and ad hominem fallacies" I agree (of course, I had to look those words up. And agreeing with Kurt made me throw up a little).

                            I will agree with one thing though, there are fanatical environmentalists, that are so wrapped up in their specific cause, that they aren't able to listen to new information. People whose passion is stronger than their ability to think. In that way, they are similar to religious zealots. But the science itself has a foundation of reason and measurements.

                            In my opinion, this is the type of article that only makes sense if your desire to support it, outweighs your ability to think critically. Honestly I tried to find a solid argument in the article. I didn't see one. And I'm open to it.
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                            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                              I'm glad you posted this. At first I thought it was satire. It was well written, and had a sort of twisted logic to it.
                              But the premise isn't true. So everything that comes after that, is faulty.
                              The examples are all analogies. That fact alone signals me that the argument is weak. When reality is on your side, you can just state facts and figures.

                              Kurt called it, " a combo of red herring, non-sequitur and ad hominem fallacies" I agree (of course, I had to look those words up. And agreeing with Kurt made me throw up a little).

                              I will agree with one thing though, there are fanatical environmentalists, that are so wrapped up in their specific cause, that they aren't able to listen to new information. People whose passion is stronger than their ability to think. In that way, they are similar to religious zealots. But the science itself has a foundation of reason and measurements.

                              In my opinion, this is the type of article that only makes sense if your desire to support it, outweighs your ability to think critically. Honestly I tried to find a solid argument in the article. I didn't see one. And I'm open to it.
                              Claude I didn't read the article (do I ever?). I tend to get in "discussions" a lot with the pro gmo group. What I noticed there is similar I guess to what the article is about. Many that I talk to tend to believe if it's science then it's always good and always beneficial, much like those that are extremely religious feel about their religion or God. In both cases they know little about what they speak Some environmentalist are the same. In fact I don't care what any group believes, there's always some that go over board and will treat it like a religion, weather they realize it or not is another discussion.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                Claude I didn't read the article (do I ever?). I tend to get in "discussions" a lot with the pro gmo group. What I noticed there is similar I guess to what the article is about. Many that I talk to tend to believe if it's science then it's always good and always beneficial, much like those that are extremely religious feel about their religion or God. In both cases they know little about what they speak Some environmentalist are the same. In fact I don't care what any group believes, there's always some that go over board and will treat it like a religion, weather they realize it or not is another discussion.
                                I wasn't talking about the actions of environmentalists. They can be terrorist like. I was talking about the science. You should read the article. It's short, and will give you a real flavor for the thinking of the writer.

                                Environmentalists may use science as justification for their actions. But the science itself is dispassionate.
                                And I was talking about the particular article. You can create good arguments, even for incorrect science. But this article used bad arguments. In fact, arguments like the ones used are just bad logic. You can have bad arguments, even when the facts are correct.
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                            • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                              In other words, it was a combo of red herring, non-sequitur and ad hominem fallacies and offered no actual facts to support his opinion. The author also makes up a number of "reasons" those of us that are concerned about the environment have never made.


                              I don't have kids. There's enough stuff for me for my life time. My concern is for YOUR kids. Too bad many want to insult me and make things up for caring about YOUR kids. Even if I'm wrong about global warning, stop insulting my motives.


                              This is similar to saying the deniers are ostriches with their heads in the sand. The problem with this analogy is that ostriches really don't put their head in the sand.
                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                              I'm glad you posted this. At first I thought it was satire. It was well written, and had a sort of twisted logic to it.
                              But the premise isn't true. So everything that comes after that, is faulty.
                              The examples are all analogies. That fact alone signals me that the argument is weak. When reality is on your side, you can just state facts and figures.

                              Kurt called it, " a combo of red herring, non-sequitur and ad hominem fallacies" I agree (of course, I had to look those words up. And agreeing with Kurt made me throw up a little).

                              I will agree with one thing though, there are fanatical environmentalists, that are so wrapped up in their specific cause, that they aren't able to listen to new information. People whose passion is stronger than their ability to think. In that way, they are similar to religious zealots. But the science itself has a foundation of reason and measurements.

                              In my opinion, this is the type of article that only makes sense if your desire to support it, outweighs your ability to think critically. Honestly I tried to find a solid argument in the article. I didn't see one. And I'm open to it.
                              My take on it was they couldn't attack the science so they resorted to attacking those who accept the science. A sure sign they've got nothing and are now resorting to desperate tactics to appeal to their diminishing audience.

                              Anyone who has watched FoxNews will be familiar with this technique. Smear your opponents and call them "out of touch with real people" because they cannot refute the facts.
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                        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                          Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

                          Hey, can you get baldo versions of those, like regular wigs?
                          You have to import those from Brazil.
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                          • Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                            You have to import those from Brazil.
                            Does that include the straps for keepin' evrythin' in place?

                            Figure I'm gonna need straps in a pool, 'cos alla the merkins I've Googled rely on glue or sticky tape.

                            Sounds weird, but I am lookin' at the shaved fanjo equivalent of a mankini, which does not sound hot.

                            Prolly I will run with a costoom with legs, like in the Olympics, an' wear the merkin on my head to stay warm.

                            Afterthought: gotta figure that merkins gonna rank low on the 'environmentally responsible' register an' high on the 'religious' scale. Jus' sayin'.
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                            • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                              Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

                              an' wear the merkin on my head to stay warm.
                              Why not. Vacuum cleaner salesmen do that to compensate for their pattern baldness.
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                              • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                Yes, read about this today, they have set a target for 2030.

                                Which on the surface is good, but replacing coal, with wind or solar isn't.

                                Australia does get a few weeks per year without any useful sun or wind?

                                Seems to be more of a 5 star hotel, binge fest than anything else?

                                Or setting new meetings to reinforce positive change, and yet more meetings to set new meetings to initiative positive chance.

                                If they wearn't p**** away so much money it would be comical, or a real life "Yes Minister" bookmark.

                                We, have to have more and more meetings, staying at luxery hotels, in order to set up more meetings? In order to set our targets to cripple the grid!

                                Well, save the planet and cripple the grid?


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                                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                  Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                                  Yes, read about this today, they have set a target for 2030.

                                  Which on the surface is good, but replacing coal, with wind or solar isn't.

                                  Australia does get a few weeks per year without any useful sun or wind?

                                  Seems to be more of a 5 star hotel, binge fest than anything else?

                                  Or setting new meetings to reinforce positive change, and yet more meetings to set new meetings to initiative positive chance.

                                  If they wearn't p**** away so much money it would be comical, or a real life "Yes Minister" bookmark.

                                  We, have to have more and more meetings, staying at luxery hotels, in order to set up more meetings? In order to set our targets to cripple the grid!

                                  Well, save the planet and cripple the grid?


                                  Last time I looked, there's a lot of water surrounding Australia. You surf too so the waves must be strong. So what's stopping wave power. and wind farms a little out to sea where the wind rarely stops.

                                  Wave power, use the gravitational pull of the moon on the seas to power the world. Storing and moving the power around is becoming less of an issue too. Once a wave power infrastructure is in place think how cheap energy could become.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                                    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                    Last time I looked, there's a lot of water surrounding Australia. You surf too so the waves must be strong. So what's stopping wave power. and wind farms a little out to sea where the wind rarely stops.

                                    Wave power, use the gravitational pull of the moon on the seas to power the world. Storing and moving the power around is becoming less of an issue too. Once a wave power infrastructure is in place think how cheap energy could become.
                                    Wave power is already up and running in Western Australia.

                                    WA wave energy project turned on to power naval base at Garden Island - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

                                    Wind, wave and solar will all combine to provide us with endless supplies of energy.

                                    It will save lots of money as well as there will be no need to install a billion Tessler (sic) circuits that produce enough energy to power an electric toothbrush.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                                      Wave power is already up and running in Western Australia.

                                      WA wave energy project turned on to power naval base at Garden Island - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

                                      Wind, wave and solar will all combine to provide us with endless supplies of energy.

                                      It will save lots of money as well as there will be no need to install a billion Tessler (sic) circuits that produce enough energy to power an electric toothbrush.
                                      Jolly Good Show Old Bean. Free energy and fresh water from the sea (with a little help from the moon) Put them up all around Aus I say. The difficulty was always moving this energy inland without it dissipating, but the stuff Kurt talked about gives us some solutions.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                        Jolly Good Show Old Bean. Free energy and fresh water from the sea (with a little help from the moon) Put them up all around Aus I say. The difficulty was always moving this energy inland without it dissipating, but the stuff Kurt talked about gives us some solutions.

                                        My thought exactly. With solar energy, wind and tidal turbines, I think we could have all the electricity we need.

                                        The Australians will have all the heat they need, when we store all our nuclear waste there.

                                        That's what we did to Atlantis, and it's doing just fine.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                          The Australians will have all the heat they need, when we store all our nuclear waste there.
                                          I know you say that in jest, however it's a very serious issue here.

                                          The "money is all that matters" crowd is trying to convince the rest of the country that being used as the world's toxic waste dump is "good for the economy". The rest of us (the majority). know that no amount of money will compensate for the environmental and health disaster that it will cause.

                                          Even more stupidly the proponents of this potential clusterfvck are proposing areas which are currently used for farming. What could possibly go wrong.

                                          Ironically, all of the politicians and their friends extolling its virtues live in urban areas a long way from the proposed sites. Well, I suppose it isn't ironic really. You could have figured that out for yourself.

                                          I should add that the Australian public has continuously rejected the use of nuclear power stations. Back in the early 80's there was a campaign to introduce it Before that gained traction Chernobyl happened and that plan was shelved until a few years ago. There was another campaign singing nuclear powers praises then Fukushima happened. By the time the next campaign starts up we will already be using renewable technologies which is a good thing. Being used as nuclear waste dump is however, not a good thing. At all.
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                                          • Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                                            The "money is all that matters" crowd is trying to convince the rest of the country that being used as the world's toxic waste dump is "good for the economy". The rest of us (the majority). know that no amount of money will compensate for the environmental and health disaster that it will cause.
                                            For the most part, you guys really are livin' on the edge.

                                            Down to you to choose who steals your heart.

                                            Last thing we need right now is for the world to be held to ransom by mutated marsupials.

                                            Mosta those guys are weird enough already without their genes gettin' nuked.

                                            But I guess it begs the question how much people can hang out against the cash wants to turn the Outback into a trash dump.

                                            Economy turns, an' it could become a necessity.

                                            That's how most bad ideas get started.
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                                            • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                              Ok, so Teslars circuit puts out almost as many amps as it does volts, so a 12 volt battery would have about 10 or 11 amps, sounds like enough for an overnight charge from what Kurt has said?

                                              As for cost, my one, (power your house, etc thread) cost me about $3.50 or around that mark.

                                              But it generated about .03 volts!

                                              So 30 for almost 1 volt, 350 for 12+ volts!


                                              A typical surburban house could do this, eventhough it might not look pretty.

                                              Power a 12 volt device forever, not a bad start?


                                              But as said before there are more compact options!


                                              If things were optimized, 5000 might be enough for 240 volts, so if Australia or the US gave up 100 square kms, for these things, they would have free power for a few billion years.

                                              The only thing that would need maintenance is the power distribution output, or electronics to maintain constant volts for the grid?

                                              So yeah, change the world for the better, but we won't see it, most of Tesla's ideas have been buried, because there is no profit in it, or an individual can recreate it!

                                              They will continue to pour billions into fission, and hopefully have it operational before oil skyrockets.

                                              And we will continue to pay for it, but hopefully now, most can see that there are other options available?

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                                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                                            I know you say that in jest, however it's a very serious issue here.

                                            Honestly, I had no idea this was a real thing.

                                            Kurt told me to say it.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                                      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                                      Wave power is already up and running in Western Australia.

                                      WA wave energy project turned on to power naval base at Garden Island - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

                                      Wind, wave and solar will all combine to provide us with endless supplies of energy.

                                      It will save lots of money as well as there will be no need to install a billion Tessler (sic) circuits that produce enough energy to power an electric toothbrush.
                                      But as they know in North Carolina, it would use up the moon's gravity ...
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                                      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                        My thought exactly. With solar energy, wind and tidal turbines, I think we could have all the electricity we need.

                                        The Australians will have all the heat they need, when we store all our nuclear waste there.

                                        That's what we did to Atlantis, and it's doing just fine.
                                        Except pensioners and the poor!


                                        That is the thing all of these arguments don't address, screwing the poor and retired for the sake of it!

                                        I agree that Teslar circuit, is out of the reach and free space, of most in this area, as well, but it is still a better option, (well, if you have the space it is).

                                        I will let the electronic wizards here give us the poop on the amps?

                                        Having 100% dodgy green power, would work for the rich and middle class, but the poor, no, not really!

                                        What we obviously need is a more self contained generator that doesn't cost a fortune to set up.

                                        Enough said!

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                                  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                    Amperage is an essential part of the equation. It tells us how fast the system will charge a typical 12v battery used in a car in the US.


                                    Does your system create 12.8 volts (about right for charging a 12v battery) at .1 amps or at 10 amps?


                                    At .1 amps, it could take a few weeks to fully charge the battery, if the battery was at 50%. I'm not even sure at this amperage it would even maintain a battery, let alone charge one.


                                    On the other hand, if your system has 15 amps, it would probably take around 4 hours to fully charge a car battery that's about 50% charged.


                                    Of course, you can set up multiple systems in parallel (or is it in series? It's been a long time since I had this in school.) to increase the amps.


                                    There's solar car battery chargers for about $20 with 18v and 5 watts which is about .28 amps. These are intended to maintain fully charged car/boat batteries and not charge drained batteries.


                                    So, what's the amperage of your system and how much does it cost?
                                    Ok, l will have to run some more tests, pretty sure that my voltmeter, (l think that is what it is called) has amps on it?

                                    Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                                    Oh dear.

                                    A system that will revolutionise the world and provide everyone with free energy for ever and yet vital technical details are unknown.

                                    Oh dear.

                                    In the meantime we have solar, wind and other methods were all of these details are known. It's probably better to stick with them I guess.
                                    Well, l will get the amps first!

                                    Stick with them!!!!, if the green movement in Au, has their way then about 20% of all of our electricity will come from wind or solar.

                                    Which means that if SA, VIC, and some of WA, has little wind on a overcast winters day, (that does happen a few times a year in AU) unless we can get the extra power from Queensland, or NSW we will have power blackouts!

                                    So people will be freezing, on a wet winters day, with little wind in almost three states, so these F**** can supposedly save the planet!

                                    In the meantime our piddly little 2%, global contribution, is absorbed by China churning out more than Europe and the US combined!

                                    Unless China takes drastic action the whole binge fest meetings are BS! And Australia's efforts are virtually worthless!


                                    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                    Last time I looked, there's a lot of water surrounding Australia. You surf too so the waves must be strong. So what's stopping wave power. and wind farms a little out to sea where the wind rarely stops.

                                    Wave power, use the gravitational pull of the moon on the seas to power the world. Storing and moving the power around is becoming less of an issue too. Once a wave power infrastructure is in place think how cheap energy could become.
                                    Cyclones!

                                    But some of the underwater ones that use currents, maybe, just as long as they can handle the above and storms?

                                    But tides, currents are 24/7, so l will agree it seems like a good option. Although salt water, would make replacement costs pretty high, so it helps, but a replacement for coal, not really.



                                    Wind, wave and solar will all combine to provide us with endless supplies of energy.

                                    It will save lots of money as well as there will be no need to install a billion Tessler (sic) circuits that produce enough energy to power an electric toothbrush.
                                    Gee how wonderful! So you would be happy to go without power in a cold, wet winters day a few weeks out of the year, so Australia can help the planet by reducing emissions by 1 or 2%?

                                    I am sure that Pensioners, having to go to the local shopping centre to sit in a walkway chair and stare at a shop window, for hours on end will be trilled at that one?

                                    And Teslars circuit runs 24/7!




                                    Ok, l will get the amps when l can, we currently have a heat wave in Au, Vic, for the next week, probably due to man made global warming, groan!
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                                    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                                      Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                                      Ok, l will have to run some more tests, pretty sure that my voltmeter, (l think that is what it is called) has amps on it?
                                      Oh dear. Someone with the solution to power the world forever doesn't know what their instruments are called. Oh dear.

                                      Stick with them!!!!, if the green movement in Au, has their way then about 20% of all of our electricity will come from wind or solar.
                                      Wrong. If the "greens movement" has their way, 100% of our electricity will come from renewable sources.

                                      Which means that if SA, VIC, and some of WA, has little wind on a overcast winters day, (that does happen a few times a year in AU) unless we can get the extra power from Queensland, or NSW we will have power blackouts!

                                      So people will be freezing, on a wet winters day, with little wind in almost three states, so these F**** can supposedly save the planet!
                                      And that is where storage batteries come into play. Power can be stored and then used when their is a cloudy, wind free day.

                                      In the meantime our piddly little 2%, global contribution, is absorbed by China churning out more than Europe and the US combined!

                                      Unless China takes drastic action the whole binge fest meetings are BS! And Australia's efforts are virtually worthless!
                                      China is taking action.
                                      Cyclones!
                                      What about them?

                                      But some of the underwater ones that use currents, maybe, just as long as they can handle the above and storms?
                                      If oil rigs can be built to withstand these events, there's no reason to believe that wave and even wind generators can't be built to withstand them as well.

                                      But tides, currents are 24/7, so l will agree it seems like a good option. Although salt water, would make replacement costs pretty high, so it helps, but a replacement for coal, not really.
                                      They can be made from non-corrosive materials.

                                      Yes, you can be in our house, freezing with no electricity or lights a few weeks out of the year, knowing that you are doing your bit to make a negligible difference to our planet supposedly going down the drain!
                                      Baseless fearmongering.


                                      Ok, l will get the amps when l can, we currently have a heat wave in Au, Vic, for the next week, probably due to man made global warming, groan!
                                      The current heat wave in south eastern Australia is being caused by two things:

                                      1) El Nino.
                                      2) Increased sea temperatures,

                                      Both of those are exacerbated by AGW.

                                      Furthermore, what is your explanation for the tornado that just hit Sydney?
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                                      It'll just knock over all the pieces, poop on the board, and strut about like it's won anyway.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                                        Oh dear. Someone with the solution to power the world forever doesn't know what their instruments are called. Oh dear.
                                        At least l make an effort!


                                        Wrong. If the "greens movement" has their way, 100% of our electricity will come from renewable sources.
                                        If that happens we are F***!

                                        And that is where storage batteries come into play. Power can be stored and then used when their is a cloudy, wind free day.
                                        Sure pensioners can afford a $3000 dollar battery, and l am sure that the gov, will hand out freebies!

                                        But l agree for more wealthy people, it is a reasonably good option.

                                        China is taking action.
                                        Taking token action, possibly l don't see any sighs of large scale action?



                                        What about them?
                                        Well, cyclone, large waves, no ocean generators!


                                        If oil rigs can be built to withstand these events, there's no reason to believe that wave and even wind generators can't be built to withstand them as well.

                                        They can be made from non-corrosive materials.
                                        Ok, but from what l have researched, it is still dodgy.


                                        Baseless fearmongering.
                                        Study claims wind turbines are 'expensive and deeply inefficient' | Daily Mail Online

                                        And most of SA, with parts of VIC, and WA didn't have enough wind to power anything for 3 days, last year!

                                        So, if we were 100%, we would have large scale blackouts, and a guaranteed change of gov!



                                        The current heat wave in south eastern Australia is being caused by two things:

                                        1) El Nino.
                                        2) Increased sea temperatures,

                                        Both of those are exacerbated by AGW.

                                        Furthermore, what is your explanation for the tornado that just hit Sydney?[/QUOTE]

                                        Australia records its third quietest start to the cyclone season in 50 years - ABC Emergency (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

                                        Probably inconclusive!

                                        A bit like saying that 52 degrees is caused by us, eventhough a hotter day occurred in the 1880's!




                                        Ok, just tested it, at 200amps it shows .2 -.3 when it shows .02-.03 of a volt, (when it is on the 20 volt settings)!
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                        You know squat.

                        I know my history.
                        You also know history. But you just stated that I also know squat. That's two things I know, to your one thing you know.

                        Ipso Facto......I win.
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                        • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          You also know history. But you just stated that I also know squat. That's two things I know, to your one thing you know.

                          Ipso Facto......I win.
                          And the Grand Prize is a trip to Wooster.
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                          "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Tesla circuit.
            Thank you Claude, l am stunned, and appreciate the correction.

            Maybe l should go to the summit, with my one, and address everyone there?

            Ok, F***h***ds, this, (holding up one, with the volts showing) is generating .03 of a volt from thin air.

            NO, moving parts, LOW maintenance, (since the volts gained per circuit is very low) and it would probably last more than 10 years, (using voyagers circuit board as an example).

            Put these in the arid areas of most countries, and their energy requirements are met!

            Although farmers, etc can do it themselves.

            NO pullution.
            NO greenhouse emissions.
            LOW maintance.
            DOESNT kill off bird life.
            DOESNT give local residence health issues.
            WORKS 24/7!
            WILL work at night on an overcast day, with no wind!!!!

            Stop F**** about with our money, and use this?????


            But pol, are owned by the wealthy, and they don't want to lose oil wealth, so, stupidity in this world,....groan!

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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

              Thank you Claude, l am stunned, and appreciate the correction.

              Maybe l should go to the summit, with my one, and address everyone there?

              Ok, F***h***ds, this, (holding up one, with the volts showing) is generating .03 of a volt from thin air.

              NO, moving parts, LOW maintenance, (since the volts gained per circuit is very low) and it would probably last more than 10 years, (using voyagers circuit board as an example).

              Put these in the arid areas of most countries, and their energy requirements are met!

              Although farmers, etc can do it themselves.

              NO pullution.
              NO greenhouse emissions.
              LOW maintance.
              DOESNT kill off bird life.
              DOESNT give local residence health issues.
              WORKS 24/7!
              WILL work at night on an overcast day, with no wind!!!!

              Stop F**** about with our money, and use this?????


              But pol, are owned by the wealthy, and they don't want to lose oil wealth, so, stupidity in this world,....groan!

              And you only need about 400 of them to charge a single 12v car battery. I'm not sure how long it will take...how many amps?
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
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    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Hilarious stupidity, really sad!
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      Where ever you go, there you are.

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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      What a second..... That theory sounds FAMILIAR! I KNOW! I KNOW!!!!!!! It is EXACTLY the same kind of thinking that THE FOLLOWING guy would come up with!


      YEP! You react to too much light, and things just go DARK! So OF COURSE, if you put too much weight on a mountain(which probably weighs more than we would ever put on it ANYWAY), it will, of course, capsize and all the people will DROWN!

      BTW my ASTOUNDING appreciation for how Admiral Willard could hear this and react without missing a beat or die laughing.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I wouldn't cheer yet. That 100 bil for "developing countries" .....um............that's tax on the citizens of the good ole US.

    And yet Monsanto, Syngenta, Dow, and Dupont are still given top biling with their environmentally disastrous poisons instead of building an empire of regenerative agriculture. Those taxes won't clean up our environement, and those corps won't either - but the corps will get their bitds because it's money in personal pockets of politicians.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
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    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    The Top Ten Reasons to be Hopeful on Climate Change | Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog



    ClimateTalk: Science and Solutions | Susan Joy Hassol | TEDxUMontana:
    (Speak in English, not science)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-tEmE85QDE#t=115
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    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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