Metal worker Shuts Down 9/11 Truthers... With His Pinkie!

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It's hard to believe that there are still many 9-11 truthers out there. This guy uses a simple demonstration to discredit one of the main point the truthers bring up.

"Jet fuel can't melt steel" is the unofficial rallying cry of 9/11 truthers. It's also completely irrelevant, because steel doesn't have to melt to lose its strength.
"If you hold this up as a reason for conspiracy, you are an idiot," Trenton Tye, a Georgia blacksmith who runs Purgatory Ironworks and has been featured on the History Channel, said in a new video that debunks one of the truthers' core arguments.


Metal Worker Shuts Down 9/11 Truthers... With His Pinkie!
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Did this really need clarification?
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    • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Did this really need clarification?
      Probably embrocation.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Did this really need clarification?
      Apparently. If you read the comments on HP there are those who still don't get it.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Apparently. If you read the comments on HP there are those who still don't get it.
        Maybe he proved something that is not what they claimed. Had the building failed as he demonstrated, it would have failed as he demonstrated. It wouldn't have come down in effectively a neat little pile. And it WAS neat. Some companies pay a lot and wait a long tim for strategic weakness to be designed into a building to do that. Look around 5:30.


        But YEAH, there are different grades of steel and they generally get weaker LONG before they melt into a puddle. That IS how they temper and form steel, after all.

        Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Did this really need clarification?
      Probably not... but it was interesting.


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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

    It's hard to believe that there are still many 9-11 truthers out there. This guy uses a simple demonstration to discredit one of the main point the truthers bring up.





    Metal Worker Shuts Down 9/11 Truthers... With His Pinkie!
    I watched a video titled Zeitgeist. A third of it was about the 9/11 conspiracy. It was well made enough to make me give it some thought. Then I read an article in (I think) Popular Science that shut every point down, with obvious logic and physics.

    The fact that I considered the conspiracy for even a second, made me feel like a fool.

    And then I knew what Kurt must feel like, all the time

    (Obligatory Kurt insult, because Riffle isn't here often enough. I would say "Just insert Riffle", but I get too excited)
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    • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      I would say "Just insert Riffle", but I get too excited
      Please, this is a family forum.
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      I watched a video titled Zeitgeist. A third of it was about the 9/11 conspiracy. It was well made enough to make me give it some thought. Then I read an article in (I think) Popular Science that shut every point down, with obvious logic and physics.

      The fact that I considered the conspiracy for even a second, made me feel like a fool.

      And then I knew what Kurt must feel like, all the time

      (Obligatory Kurt insult, because Riffle isn't here often enough. I would say "Just insert Riffle", but I get too excited)
      If you feel like a fool then don't be so aloof and you might get one.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      I watched a video titled Zeitgeist. A third of it was about the 9/11 conspiracy. It was well made enough to make me give it some thought. Then I read an article in (I think) Popular Science that shut every point down, with obvious logic and physics.

      The fact that I considered the conspiracy for even a second, made me feel like a fool.

      And then I knew what Kurt must feel like, all the time


      (Obligatory Kurt insult, because Riffle isn't here often enough. I would say "Just insert Riffle", but I get too excited)
      Something else we agree on...It's true, I feel like you're a fool all the time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    Proving that buildings toppled because of damage from a crashed jet airliner....in no way disproves 911 to be an inside job.

    its funny to see many on this forum, of even hi intelligence embrace this video as some sort of proof of something.

    There are still tons of loose ends that need explanation.

    When you look at the details of what happened that day and the days afterward....thee is a clear and consistent theme of government agencies, airlines and several other entities suddenly not following the protocols that theyve followed for decades, or simply refusing to cooperate.

    It stinks of manipulation and cover up.


    There are some things about 911 that still cause me to question.

    Like the fact that NIST came out in 2006 and disavowed their pancake theory...they said they were wrong and it couldn't have happened that way( its in their FAQ section) Their official stance is that they have no theory on it at present.

    While also claiming they saw no evidence for the use of explosives...they readily admit that they didn't actually test for it.

    The computer simulation they came up with the explain Building 7...many indipendant scientists have asked to see the program for per review ( which is standard procedure in the scientific community with any kind of research)...but they have refused to allow anyone to see what they did or what parameters they used to get the animation to look exactly like the incident even tho no one knows where every little fire in the building was.

    Its been proven that there was a detailed blueprint of the 911 commission report completed even before the commission was assembled to begin the investigation process.

    FOIA request regarding the pentagons plane black box info revealed that the cabin door of the plane never opened at all during the flight...which negates the claim that bad guys took over the cockpit.
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

      Proving that buildings toppled because of damage from a crashed jet airliner....in no way disproves 911 to be an inside job.

      its funny to see many on this forum, of even hi intelligence embrace this video as some sort of proof of something.

      There are still tons of loose ends that need explanation.

      When you look at the details of what happened that day and the days afterward....thee is a clear and consistent theme of government agencies, airlines and several other entities suddenly not following the protocols that theyve followed for decades, or simply refusing to cooperate.

      It stinks of manipulation and cover up.


      There are some things about 911 that still cause me to question.

      Like the fact that NIST came out in 2006 and disavowed their pancake theory...they said they were wrong and it couldn't have happened that way( its in their FAQ section) Their official stance is that they have no theory on it at present.

      While also claiming they saw no evidence for the use of explosives...they readily admit that they didn't actually test for it.

      The computer simulation they came up with the explain Building 7...many indipendant scientists have asked to see the program for per review ( which is standard procedure in the scientific community with any kind of research)...but they have refused to allow anyone to see what they did or what parameters they used to get the animation to look exactly like the incident even tho no one knows where every little fire in the building was.

      Its been proven that there was a detailed blueprint of the 911 commission report completed even before the commission was assembled to begin the investigation process.

      FOIA request regarding the pentagons plane black box info revealed that the cabin door of the plane never opened at all during the flight...which negates the claim that bad guys took over the cockpit.
      The BBC reported it as news, 20 minutes before it happened, always thought that was a strange one,

      I have invited the BBC to join the League of Psychic Super Hero's
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      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        The BBC reported it as news, 20 minutes before it happened, always thought that was a strange one,
        There's also the BBC reporting that 7 of the alleged hijackers were still alive 2 weeks after the attack, and one of them died a year before.

        Then there's the fact that Osama Bin Laden was on the FBI's Most Wanted lList. It listed all the crimes he was wanted in connection with. 9/11 was not on that list..

        When the entire airspace over the United States was a no fly zone, the FBI collected members of the bin Laden family and flew them out of the country.

        Bush and Cheney would only appear before a panel with no record of what questions were asked, or answers given.

        There have only been four plane crashes in history where no black box could be found. All four of them took place on 9/11.

        The FBI went around collecting coverage from every CCTV camera pointed in the direction of the Pentagon. None of this footage has ever been released except for a few frames that show an unidentifiable object hitting the building.

        With all of these, along with other anomalies, is it any wonder there are so many conspiracy theories around.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post


          There have only been four plane crashes in history where no black box could be found. All four of them took place on 9/11.
          Not true. Here's a list of black boxes not recovered:

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unrecovered_flight_recorders

          As Claude said, there's a common sense explanation for every point made by conspiracy theorists, including every one listed here so far.
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          • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Not true. Here's a list of black boxes not recovered:

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ight_recorders

            As Claude said, there's a common sense explanation for every point made by conspiracy theorists, including every one listed here so far.
            Tim,

            The point of my initial post wasn't to prove or disprove anything. It was merely to point out why so many conspiracy theories have sprung up.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              I've done that before here, back in 2006 or so. One thread lasted months. It's time consuming debunking all these "arguments" and it wouldn't change your mind anyways.
              Why do it again? After this many years, people know what they believe. Why not just leave it at that? Huffpost publishes something about "truthers" every few months - year after year.

              But this story isn't really about "truthers" - it's about a man angry over what other people believe...years after an event....and out to prove them wrong.

              Facts don't affect those who see conspiracies - they can always 'explain' anything that doesn't fit.
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              • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

                what exactly who knows.
                Balcony views in Manhattan can be quite competitive.
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      • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        The BBC reported it as news, 20 minutes before it happened, always thought that was a strange one,

        I have invited the BBC to join the League of Psychic Super Hero's
        Ahh yes, you are referring to the premature broadcast that building 7 had fallen...while no one has ever asked the right questions It'd be a curious rabbit hole to wander into to find out where that, obviously erroneous, info was being fed in from.

        The big thing people have to come to grips with is simply just the possibility that our Government may have had something to do with it...what exactly who knows.

        It all has to start with looking at the people in charge that day...are they the kind of people that are capable of killing American Citizens for some kind of gain?

        Certainly Donald Rumsfeld has a proven track record of such capability...look into his involvement in the legalization of Aspartame. http://rense.com/general67/rum.htm


        Our own Government has a history of doing bad things....here someone has put a little list together...all of those things can also be researched independantly

        10 Nefarious Conspiracies Proven True - Listverse

        As far as facts about 911..the public has been fed a steady diet of this general story of what happened but when you go looking at the details...so much condradiction comes to the surface....and a whole lotta uncooperative people and entities in authority.

        If the official story were the honest truth...why so much deceit and "guilt like" behavior...it kind of reminds me of Tom Brady...swears he didnt give the order to deflate the balls...but destroys his cell phone...is that truthful behavior?

        Interesting article here...

        9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon

        Here's a good read on 14 indisputable facts about 911 ( go ahead try, you cant)

        Fourteen Incredible Facts About 9/11 | Dig Within

        This here is probably the best presentation of 911 stuff Ive come across.

        http://911hardfacts.com/
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

          Certainly Donald Rumsfeld has a proven track record of such capability...look into his involvement in the legalization of Aspartame. Aspartame - Rumsfeld's Bioweapon Legacy

          Hyped up over reactive nonsense. The only studies to show that Aspartme causes any significant health deficits like brain damage, tumors, MS etc..etc.. were performed on rodents. FDA set the limits in their regulations of Aspartme that were about 100 times less than the smallest amount that was found to cause health concerns in animal studies .

          Those lab rats were giving ungodly amounts of it. Hell, the same thing can be said about Mercury in certain fish.

          Its all about intake portion and being moderate about your consumption. Drinking a couple of cans of diet coke a day aint going to cause sh@t
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        • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
          Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

          Our own Government has a history of doing bad things....here someone has put a little list together...all of those things can also be researched independantly
          Now, Doran... if you are trying to somehow imply that the fine folks who brought us

          1.Pearl Harbor
          2.The Warren Commission Report
          3.The Gulf of Tonkin incident
          4.The war on drugs
          5.The oil shortages in the 1970's
          6.The first Gulf War
          7.Global warming
          8.Iraq's weapons of mass destruction

          Would present us with anything other than the absolute, one hundred percent, honest-to-Betsy Ross-herself truth...well, by gosh, I'm just gonna stay right here and stare at the screen young man, until you come to your senses.


          Uh, could ya Please Hurry Up, as I gotta use the bathroom...NOWWWWWW!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

      Their official stance is that they have no theory on it at present.
      Yes, they actually do have a theory:

      NIST conducted an extremely thorough three-year investigation into what caused the WTC towers to collapse, as explained in NIST's dedicated Web site, WTC Disaster Study. This included consideration of a number of hypotheses for the collapses of the towers.
      Some 200 technical experts--including about 85 career NIST experts and 125 leading experts from the private sector and academia--reviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than 1,000 people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, performed laboratory tests and sophisticated computer simulations of the sequence of events that occurred from the moment the aircraft struck the towers until they began to collapse.
      Based on this comprehensive investigation, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires (which reached temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees Celsius) significantly weakened the floors and columns with dislodged fireproofing to the point where floors sagged and pulled inward on the perimeter columns. This led to the inward bowing of the perimeter columns and failure of the south face of WTC 1 and the east face of WTC 2, initiating the collapse of each of the towers. Both photographic and video evidence--as well as accounts from the New York Police Department aviation unit during a half-hour period prior to collapse--support this sequence for each tower.

      While also claiming they saw no evidence for the use of explosives...they readily admit that they didn't actually test for it.
      They concluded that explosions or a controlled demolition didn't happen, so why would they test for them?
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      • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
        The reason why the Blacksmith video has no credibility is that the beams were not in a blast furnace heated to 1800 degrees.

        The jet fuel burned out at a very rapid rate in a very open area. Most if not all of the supports had no direct contact with the heat from the fuel.

        Having a jet fuel burn where all the fuel is consumed in less than a minute is a far different thing than taking 20 minutes to heat a piece of steal with direct constant heat in a blast furnace.

        In the videos you see the towers basically smoldering. The jet fuel was consumed mostly in the initial fire ball. That fireball would not have had much if any contact with those supports, Especially since the main supports are in the center of the structure.

        I'm not saying there was or wasn't an inside job, or that it was legit.

        I'm only saying that the point in this video is erroneous.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by Enfusia View Post


          I'm only saying that the point in this video is erroneous.
          The point he is making is that the steel didn't have to melt to lose it's strength because people keep on saying that the fire wasn't hot enough to melt the steel. Seems like he was successful in making that point. We don't really know how hot the fire was or how long it burned. It certainly didn't appear to be a short fire as the towering smoke columns lasted up until the towers collapsed.
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      • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Yes, they actually do have a theory:






        They concluded that explosions or a controlled demolition didn't happen, so why would they test for them?
        There is plenty of evidence to suggest demolition. It is lunacy for them to have not tested for it. Sloppy science. Id encourage you to read through the links I gave and then counter the arguments given.

        I don't have a problem with the idea that planes damaged buildings ...we saw that take place...I have problems with the long list of details that indicate some shenanigans going on.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

          Id encourage you to read through the links I gave and then counter the arguments given.
          I've done that before here, back in 2006 or so. One thread lasted months. It's time consuming debunking all these "arguments" and it wouldn't change your mind anyways.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    100 Million people have been killed by their own government in the last century. Gov's kill their OWN people.


    But ours is different, right? Um.................anyone remember Operation Northwoods?

    Are you eating gmo's, aspartame, drinking sodium fluoride, have a doctor trying to prescribe 14 different drugs to you? Eating advil?

    How many of our own people have been killed in wars for oil. No real threat - just wanted control of resources?

    All it takes to determine if 9/11 was a Northwood type of false flag is to see what our gov has done since. We might not be experts on ballistics, jet fuel, or any other part of it - but enough experts have spoken out that we need to listen. Trusting government no matter what happens or how fishy has been a very bad idea for over 100 mil (that's beside our own citizens killed in greed wars) - how can you be so damned sure it's safe and okay for you?
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      100 Million people have been killed by their own government in the last century. Gov's kill their OWN people.


      But ours is different, right? Um.................anyone remember Operation Northwoods?

      Are you eating gmo's, aspartame, drinking sodium fluoride, have a doctor trying to prescribe 14 different drugs to you? Eating advil?

      How many of our own people have been killed in wars for oil. No real threat - just wanted control of resources?

      All it takes to determine if 9/11 was a Northwood type of false flag is to see what our gov has done since. We might not be experts on ballistics, jet fuel, or any other part of it - but enough experts have spoken out that we need to listen. Trusting government no matter what happens or how fishy has been a very bad idea for over 100 mil (that's beside our own citizens killed in greed wars) - how can you be so damned sure it's safe and okay for you?
      Even if our government "IS" different, it clearly CAN'T be! WHY? Because the "us government" is NOTHING like it was! People don't even know what ANY amendments are, or are for, and people that are even SUPPOSEDLY HIGHLY formally educated have declared that we should get rid of SO many rights!

      MOST governments were created as dictatorships or monarchies that were kind of similar. Even ones that claimed to help a particular group as socialist or communist were little more than dictatorships. Soviet russia, castros cuba, china, NAZI germany etc.... TODAY, people laugh at the idea of the tea party. That is IRONIC because they feel they were Taxed Enough Already! Over 200 years ago, a group through TEA overboard to protest a new TAX levied on them THEY felt they were Taxed Enough Already! Well, THEY took over the little country, and called it the United States Of America. And the SAME people that laugh at that idea are of the ilk that said another country should pay over 100% tax to them, and not have ANY guns! Some got guns, took over the country, in part because all were sick of having to work so hard to see their potential future disappear, and were promised that the others would solve the problem. The result of THAT was WWII and NAZI Germany.

      The us was one of the few countries that started out with the idea that the federal government should control ONLY disputes between states, disputes with other countries, and the states adherence to basic rights for the citizen. NOW, the federal government has the idea that IT should be the largest beneficiary of any individual, and that it should have full control of the individual. In short, the ranking is exactly the OPPOSITE of what it was intended to be! BTW NAZI Germany started with the promise that people would be provided for, that so much would be free, and that inflation would be brought under control. The Original name of it, in english, was National Socialist German Workers Party. At the time, that would have sounded like a tame name.

      It is incredible how something could happen one year, and adversely affect the world. People may chant "NEVER FORGET!", "NEVER AGAIN!", and still GLADLY push things along to the next disaster.

      ANYWAY, the English language isn't precise, and some are changing words so that they no longer have ANY meaning, A famous person decades ago questions what "IS" means! GOOD, BAD, INVEST, REVENUE, NEUTRAL, INCREASE. DECREASE, DEATH PANEL, INSURANCE, BENEFITS, FREE, EXPENSIVE, CHEAP, WE, OUR, YOUR, YOU, US, REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT, PROGRESS, FORWARD, BACKWARD, REFORM, PRIVATE, PUBLIC, EMPLOYMENT, MALE, FEMALE, PERVERT, RACISM, SEXISM, GOOD, BAD, PROFIT, RELIGION, DERANGED, ASSAULT, CRIMINAL, ILLEGAL, INADEQUATE, GAY, Christian, Extremist, etc.... are just SOME of the OTHER words that have NO real meaning!

      For example, a person may say "These plans are INADEQUATE, and we have made changes to make them cheaper and REVENUE neutral as it is better for US".

      Accepted meaning, that they intend you to believe? "These are BAD plans and we have made them cheaper and better for US citizens as that is better for them."

      What they REALLY mean? "We don't like this, so we will give SOME of you a lower cost and MAYBE you will see a benefit. We have made the changes to make them APPEAR cheaper to some as it is better for OUR(as government leaders) PURPOSES, and will actually bring the US leaders more money".

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    I forgot to add a disclaimer to my post above.

    Despite all the anomalies and unanswered questions about the 9/11 attacks, I DO NOT BELIEVE IT WAS AN INSIDE JOB.

    To believe that would require me to believe that one of the most successful attacks in history was conceived and implemented by the same people who turned the relatively easy job bf invading Iraq into a complete clusterfvck.
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    • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

      I forgot to add a disclaimer to my post above.

      Despite all the anomalies and unanswered questions about the 9/11 attacks, I DO NOT BELIEVE IT WAS AN INSIDE JOB.

      To believe that would require me to believe that one of the most successful attacks in history was conceived and implemented by the same people who turned the relatively easy jog bf invading Iraq into a complete clusterfvck.
      Actually when you look at the actual details of things you see that not much is covered up at all ... It's all a big sloppy mess... Just none of it ever makes its way to the public conscience...read that last link I left.
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      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

        ..read that last link I left.
        I have seen that one before.
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    • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

      I forgot to add a disclaimer to my post above.

      Despite all the anomalies and unanswered questions about the 9/11 attacks, I DO NOT BELIEVE IT WAS AN INSIDE JOB.

      To believe that would require me to believe that one of the most successful attacks in history was conceived and implemented by the same people who turned the relatively easy job bf invading Iraq into a complete clusterfvck.
      Inside job doesn't have to mean it was carried out by our government...knowing about it, not preventing it, or leaving the doors open, so to speak, to allow it to happen...is every bit as solid a definition of inside job...and entirely plausible a possibility.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
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      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

      I forgot to add a disclaimer to my post above.

      Despite all the anomalies and unanswered questions about the 9/11 attacks, I DO NOT BELIEVE IT WAS AN INSIDE JOB.

      To believe that would require me to believe that one of the most successful attacks in history was conceived and implemented by the same people who turned the relatively easy job bf invading Iraq into a complete clusterfvck.

      That's not even a comparison. No war zone existed at the trade centers while the Middle East has been a war zone forever.

      Who coined the phrase Shock and Awe?
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      • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        That's not even a comparison. No war zone existed at the trade centers while the Middle East has been a war zone forever.

        Who coined the phrase Shock and Awe?
        Harlan K. Ullman and James P. Wade, in 1996.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
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          Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

          Harlan K. Ullman and James P. Wade, in 1996.
          Exactly, the the same folks that advise the US GOV. / Military.
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          • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            Exactly, the the same folks that advise the US GOV. / Military.
            So, the US gov/mil uses a term it got from its advisers.

            Would you care to clarify the point you're trying to make?
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      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        That's not even a comparison. No war zone existed at the trade centers while the Middle East has been a war zone forever.

        Who coined the phrase Shock and Awe?
        I wasn't making a comparison. I stated that I find it impossible to believe the architects of a spectacularly successful operation could;ve been the architects of such a spectacular mess.

        The actual invasion part went well, but there was absolutely no planning on what happened after that. It was a series of blunders that eventually gave rise to a group that call themselves ISIS.

        New York City bounced back quickly after 0/11. The aftermath of the Iraq invasion is still going on and in all likelihood, will be still be going on long after you and I shuffle off this mortal coil.
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        A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in - Greek proverb
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        • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
          Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

          New York City bounced back quickly after 0/11. The aftermath of the Iraq invasion is still going on and in all likelihood, will be still be going on long after you and I shuffle off this mortal coil.
          The aftermath of 9/11 is ongoing as well. No one knows how many thousands of people inhaled the toxic dust from those fallen buildings. Some of the fire fighters and police officers who were there, have paid a heavy price, health-wise

          Time will tell.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
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          Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

          I wasn't making a comparison. I stated that I find it impossible to believe the architects of a spectacularly successful operation could;ve been the architects of such a spectacular mess.

          The actual invasion part went well, but there was absolutely no planning on what happened after that. It was a series of blunders that eventually gave rise to a group that call themselves ISIS.

          New York City bounced back quickly after 0/11. The aftermath of the Iraq invasion is still going on and in all likelihood, will be still be going on long after you and I shuffle off this mortal coil.

          Looks like a comparison to me.


          Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

          To believe that would require me to believe that one of the most successful attacks in history was conceived and implemented by the same people who turned the relatively easy job bf invading Iraq into a complete clusterfvck.
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