Professor Claims Sandy Hook Massacre was a Hoax

Banned 8 years ago

There's some nut bag and quite famous conservative radio talk show host that goes on about this day after day. His name escapes me, but I'm quite sure that a few people here will be able to name him. Avid listeners. lol

Cheers. - Frank

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Sarevok

8 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

There's some nut bag and quite famous conservative radio talk show host that goes on about this day after day. His name escapes me, but I'm quite sure that a few people here will be able to name him. Avid listeners. lol

Cheers. - Frank

I believe you're referring to Mr. Alex Jones.

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BigFrank Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Sarevok

I believe you're referring to Mr. Alex Jones.

That would be the guy. TY.

Cheers. - Frank
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lanfear63

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

A Florida Atlantic University professor is claiming the Sandy Hook massacre was a hoax. He even had the gall to demand proof from the parents of one child killed that day that their child ever lived. He reportedly claimed that: This must be incredibly painful for all the families who lost children or other loved ones on that horrific day - as if this time of year isn't difficult enough for them already.

Some conspiracy theories at least make a little sense. I can't even begin to wrap my brain around this one.

Florida professor to be fired for saying Sandy Hook was a hoax - TODAY.com

University Professor Fired Over Comments About Sandy Hook

I have seen a number of docu's about it and actually think there could be something too it. The only reason though would be to try and shock the nation into getting behind gun control. It followed another incident and the President was harkening on about it a lot at the time.

True or false, even the mass killing of a load of innocent children was still not enough for anyone to lift a finger.

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Cali16

8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I have seen a number of docu's about it and actually think there could be something too it. The only reason though would be to try and shock the nation into getting behind gun control. It followed another incident and the President was harkening on about it a lot at the time.

True or false, even the mass killing of a load of innocent children was still not enough for anyone to lift a finger.

Apparently I'm not up to date on recent conspiracy theories. Yes, the gun control motive did cross my mind briefly when I saw the Today video about this professor earlier. I suppose, then, that for every mass shooting there are those who believe it's an elaborate hoax in order to push new gun control laws? To pull that off (at least with this incident) would have been a pretty amazing and elaborate feat.

I don't believe for a moment it was a hoax. All the local residents would have had to agree in order for this staged shooting to work, and I don't see that happening - especially in a small, conservative town where everyone knows everyone.

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HeySal

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

Apparently I'm not up to date on recent conspiracy theories. Yes, the gun control motive did cross my mind briefly when I saw the Today video about this professor earlier. I suppose, then, that for every mass shooting there are those who believe it's an elaborate hoax in order to push new gun control laws? To pull that off (at least with this incident) would have been a pretty amazing and elaborate feat.

I don't believe for a moment it was a hoax. All the local residents would have had to agree in order for this staged shooting to work, and I don't see that happening - especially in a small, conservative town where everyone knows everyone.

Not reading any further than this because I know who is having what kind of thoughts about it.

The "conspiracy theory" was started because that school wasn't even open at the time.

I was hearing all sorts of "false flag" - mostly very rightfully pointing out there were military drills in the area.

The thing that catches my attention, though - is the FBI homicide listings don't show anyone killed in that area on that date or during the same year. To me......at that point......the discussion is closed.

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Cali16

8 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

The thing that catches my attention, though - is the FBI homicide listings don't show anyone killed in that area on that date or during the same year. To me......at that point......the discussion is closed.

This site has an explanation for that (and Connecticut's Uniform Crime Report, which is a government document, has a dedication to the Sandy Hook victims). See page 4 in the following pdf:

http://www.dpsdata.ct.gov/dps/ucr/da...=auto,-169,798

Link to the site explaining / debunking the FBI issue:

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-fb...e-total.t4570/

The author of the site explains the FBI issue (including screenshots on the site from the FBI's UCR):

The report quite specifically notes the 27 victims (26 at the school, plus Lanza's mother), but excludes them from the statistics for Newton. Instead they are included in "State Police Misc", because the crimes at the school fell under the jurisdiction of the state police, not the local police.

So it seems that as they are not assigned to a specific town, they do not appear in the FBI table. The UCR is primarily a statistical tool and does not have 100% coverage. The 27 deaths are included in the state total of 144 on the FBI web page, just not in the local totals, which only includes 110 for the 92 listed communities.

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HeySal

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

This site has an explanation for that (and Connecticut's Uniform Crime Report, which is a government document, has a dedication to the Sandy Hook victims). See page 4 in the following pdf:

http://www.dpsdata.ct.gov/dps/ucr/da...=auto,-169,798

Link to the site explaining / debunking the FBI issue:

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-fb...e-total.t4570/

The author of the site explains the FBI issue (including screenshots on the site from the FBI's UCR):

Thanks - I'll check further on that one. I saw the FBI mentioned in a meme, so I looked for myself. I see memes all the time that report that "this" or "that" was found true or untrue on websites, etc - and when I look, the meme is so obviously a lie that it's incredible that people don't look it up. I don't trust Snopes as the owners aren't professional researchers and miss a lot, but they are a starting point for me. I browsed quickly and didn't see any stats on those kids being killed. I'll check further. Something seems wrong if they aren't listed accordingly in placement or methodology of other homicides. Why would that happen? This one doesn't strike me. At all.

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TimPhelan

8 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Not reading any further than this because I know who is having what kind of thoughts about it.

The "conspiracy theory" was started because that school wasn't even open at the time.

I was hearing all sorts of "false flag" - mostly very rightfully pointing out there were military drills in the area.

The thing that catches my attention, though - is the FBI homicide listings don't show anyone killed in that area on that date or during the same year. To me......at that point......the discussion is closed.

Lol. There ya go. They are coming out of the cracks now!

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Kurt

8 years ago

If you're going to tell a parent that their child really wasn't murdered, you better be 100% sure. Making false accusations just to support a political agenda is pure BS.

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Kay King

8 years ago

"Tracy even sent us a certified letter demanding proof that Noah once lived, that we were his parents, and that we were the rightful owner of his photographic image.

That is so crass it's beyond acceptable human behavior.

When I see people like this professor I wonder what he has to do with it. He wasn't there - he didn't know the people - why would he behave this way unless he needs attention badly?

I can't imagine burying a child and then having a nut hundreds of miles away claim my child didn't exist.

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Cali16

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

- why would he behave this way unless he needs attention badly?

That was my thought as well, Kay, that this guy desperately and shamelessly wants to make a name for himself - even at the expense of families whose wounds are still likely far from healed. Selfish and cruel.

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Jill Carpenter 8 years ago

That would be one heck of a whole community involved in a coverup!

Gosh, maybe 9/11 never happened either.
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Claude Whitacre

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

That was my thought as well, Kay, that this guy desperately and shamelessly wants to make a name for himself - even at the expense of families whose wounds are still likely far from healed. Selfish and cruel.

Honestly, I don't think that's it. Some people just think in a way that creates these impossible scenarios. To them, everything is part of a grand plot, a hoax, there is always a sinister motive. And, I think it requires a lack of cognitive abilities.
It also requires a patient mother that lets you live in her basement until you are 35 years old.

He may be slightly schizophrenic. If he actually met the parents, he wouldn't believe them, they would become part of the plot, the cover-up. Videos of the kids, records of their birth, testimonials of people at the funerals, would all get woven into the story...as further proof that it's a hoax. His story is impenetrable.

I've met a few of these people. Different conspiracy theories, but the same structure to them. They usually can carry on a decent conversation...until you get to their "thing". And then they have proof, created by associations that they made up. It's all held together by one big idea. And if that big idea would be proven wrong, their reality would collapse. So....it cannot be wrong. If they believe we never went to the Moon, nothing can convince them that we went. Even if they went to the Moon themselves and saw the landing module and the rover. Even if they felt the lighter gravity, and saw the Earth. They would construct their experience as further proof that there was no Moon landing.

They would say that the rover and landing module were hastily constructed, and the gravity was reduced by a "gravity reducer ray" that they just found out about on a Youtube video. And the trip there and back was done in a simulator, and the lack of atmosphere was done with an "Interocitor". Everything would support their ever tightening fantasy.

And Sandy Hook didn't happen, as part of a hoax. Nothing will convince them otherwise.

I know this is your field, but can't people just be delusional?

If it was a hoax, who would have to be in on it? The school, everyone that works there. The parents of the students, the police that arrived at the school, everyone that was at the victim's funerals, all the people investigating the incident.

They would all have to share the same exact story, forever.

To me, that's not cruel, just delusional.

It's just an opinion, and you are more than qualified to offer a better idea.

Remember the "9/11 was a plot, and the government did it"?

Here, on this forum, we heard that everyone was in on it, robots flew the plane, or was it clones?, or the passengers were dead bodies, or the plane landed on an island, the passengers in hiding...or was it to another dimension?

Every nonsensical idea shown to be impossible, was immediately replaced by another cause that still fit the "story". No thought was given to whether the idea was impossible or not, as long as it fit.

Those people are still here.

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TimPhelan 8 years ago

I have seen a couple people who post here on a semi regular basis say Sandy Hook was faked. We already have one in this thread who thinks there could be something to the hoax idea. This is just twisted nonsensical thinking.
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lanfear63

8 years ago

Alleged photo's of Sandy Hook from 10/12/2014. Hardly anyone there. Abandoned buildings galore. I suppose you should go and see for yourself to confirm or refute that but if there is any credence to the hoax story then populating it for a while to perpetrate a hoax would make sense. The guy of course says it's a government owned facade.

An Eerie Visit to – Sandy Hook – Newtown CT. | Max Resistance

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Midnight Oil

8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Alleged photo's of Sandy Hook from 10/12/2014. Hardly anyone there. Abandoned buildings galore. I suppose you should go and see for yourself to confirm or refute that but if there is any credence to the hoax story then populating it for a while to perpetrate a hoax would make sense. The guy of course says it's a government owned facade.

An Eerie Visit to - Sandy Hook - Newtown CT. | Max Resistance

That site is just crazy talk. The buildings he shows are photos of the Fairfield Hills Hospital in Newtown, which was closed years ago (except for one building which is used as the Newtown Building Department). It was even filmed in an episode of MTV's Fear some time back. They are not photos of the actual town.

Doesn't matter that area locals posted as such in the site's comments section, because they were surely paid to write those comments. Doesn't matter that you can see the actual town using Google maps and images, because Google was paid off also, right?

Occasionally a person walks a dog or sits in their parked car for no reason. Nothing makes any sense.

I pulled over at the Firehouse to take photos, and directly across the street was a ramshackle house with 5 people standing in full view in their DRIVEWAY, in front of their front door, having beers.......... for no reason. Who stands just outside their front door in the driveway, socializing?

OMG! People walking dogs and sitting in cars! People standing in their driveways! People drinking beer! BEER!!! What the hell could possibly be going on there???? Nothing makes any sense!!!

Sheesh . . .

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lanfear63

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Midnight Oil

That site is just crazy talk. The buildings he shows are photos of the Fairfield Hills Hospital in Newtown, which was closed years ago (except for one building which is used as the Newtown Building Department). It was even filmed in an episode of MTV's Fear some time back. They are not photos of the actual town.

Doesn't matter that area locals posted as such in the site's comments section, because they were surely paid to write those comments. Doesn't matter that you can see the actual town using Google maps and images, because Google was paid off also, right?

OMG! People walking dogs and sitting in cars! People standing in their driveways! People drinking beer! BEER!!! What the hell could possibly be going on there???? Nothing makes any sense!!!

Sheesh . . .

You will notice I said alleged. This is something that anyone could verify or refute by visiting themselves, the nature of the source site is immaterial. These are pictures that either represent the location or don't.

It's only a gut reaction, but on the day of the incident I was following along on tv and I was thinking, this does not look real to me.I have been close to home on other shooting incidents as the college near to me where my wife works had two in the space of a few months. OMG, 13 different police force's showed up, Swat teams, dogs, helicopters, a street full of media reporting vans. This was just for one shooting where one person was hurt.

At Sandy Hook where 27 people were supposed to have died the whole circus of response looked to be minimal. No choppers to start with and they are statutory to show up first to whisk people away off to the hospital.

Governments of the world have a history of perpetrating hoaxes of sacrificing some of their people to further their agenda. The Nazi Party famously burnt down the German Parliament building so they could blame it on the Jews to justify persecuting them. It is widely thought that Winston Churchill knew about the impending attack on Pearl Harbour but kept quiet about it as he desperately wanted the US to join the war effort. Without you guys we could have lost and Europe could have been flying the Nazi flag.

I'm just putting it out there that perhaps not every conspiracy theory is untrue and the work of paranoid minds, or have partial truths.

Take the Moon landings as an example. There is no doubt that the Americans landed on the moon. Two facts. Jodrell bank followed them down, fact, there was a range finder set up on the moon by the Astronauts that is still picked up today to determine the exact distance between Earth and Moon.

What may not be fact: The camera technology you had in those days was suspect in that due to the extreme temperature variations on the surface and the cosmic rays bearing down, it may not have been possible to film on the moon. The camera's had scant screening. So, perhaps Kubrick doing some dramatic film footage at Shepperton studio's in the UK was good insurance and satisfy the public's need to have the enormous tax burden of the trips justified. Partial truths.

Dare I suggest that something like Sandy Hook could not be staged to further an agenda on gun control. Yes, I dare. But as you saw, total waste of time and money if it was, total fail.

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Kay King 8 years ago

The photos should not even stand for anyone looking at them critically.

The same mental hospital closed many years ago shows up in most of the photos....include the photo labeled as "downtown". Really? And no one notices that because they are so willing to believe in a conspiracy....
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Kurt

8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

You will notice I said alleged. This is something that anyone could verify or refute by visiting themselves, the nature of the source site is immaterial. These are pictures that either represent the location or don't.

It's only a gut reaction, but on the day of the incident I was following along on tv and I was thinking, this does not look real to me.I have been close to home on other shooting incidents as the college near to me where my wife works had two in the space of a few months. OMG, 13 different police force's showed up, Swat teams, dogs, helicopters, a street full of media reporting vans. This was just for one shooting where one person was hurt.

At Sandy Hook where 27 people were supposed to have died the whole circus of response looked to be minimal. No choppers to start with and they are statutory to show up first to whisk people away off to the hospital.

Governments of the world have a history of perpetrating hoaxes of sacrificing some of their people to further their agenda. The Nazi Party famously burnt down the German Parliament building so they could blame it on the Jews to justify persecuting them. It is widely thought that Winston Churchill knew about the impending attack on Pearl Harbour but kept quiet about it as he desperately wanted the US to join the war effort. Without you guys we could have lost and Europe could have been flying the Nazi flag.

I'm just putting it out there that perhaps not every conspiracy theory is untrue and the work of paranoid minds, or have partial truths.

Take the Moon landings as an example. There is no doubt that the Americans landed on the moon. Two facts. Jodrell bank followed them down, fact, there was a range finder set up on the moon by the Astronauts that is still picked up today to determine the exact distance between Earth and Moon.

What may not be fact: The camera technology you had in those days was suspect in that due to the extreme temperature variations on the surface and the cosmic rays bearing down, it may not have been possible to film on the moon. The camera's had scant screening. So, perhaps Kubrick doing some dramatic film footage at Shepperton studio's in the UK was good insurance and satisfy the public's need to have the enormous tax burden of the trips justified. Partial truths.

Dare I suggest that something like Sandy Hook could not be staged to further an agenda on gun control. Yes, I dare. But as you saw, total waste of time and money if it was, total fail.

Dare I suggest that Sandy Hook was staged by the gun lobby to scare Americans into buying more guns? No, I couldn't. I care about the parents of the dead children too much to do that. Speculation and "gut feelings" simply aren't good enough.

However, any motivation for a hoax can be applied equally to both sides.

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lanfear63

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Dare I suggest that Sandy Hook was staged by the gun lobby to scare Americans into buying more guns? No, I couldn't. I care about the parents of the dead children too much to do that. Speculation and "gut feelings" simply aren't good enough.

However, any motivation for a hoax can be applied equally to both sides.

Dare I suggest that many arrests and prosecutions have been made in bringing people to justice based on initial gut feeling, because that gut feeling is based on knowledge and previous experience and patterns of criminal behaviour. My gut feeling was based on observing the response to a shooting very close to home. I work for that college system.

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Kurt

8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Dare I suggest that many arrests and prosecutions have been made in bringing people to justice based on initial gut feeling, because that gut feeling is based on knowledge and previous experience and patterns of criminal behaviour. My gut feeling was based on observing the response to a shooting very close to home. I work for that college system.

You can suggest anything you want. And I can totally and thoroughly reject it. And I can also say that your suggestion is totally without merit and disregards the feelings of the grieving parents.

But where your bias really shows is that, even if your suggestion was true, you accepted it was the US gov and not the gun lobby that created the hoax without any substantiating evidence at all. None. Nada. Zilch. Zip. Zero.

Even assuming it was a hoax, your motive is totally unsupported. Not to mention, if it were a hoax, the US gov and the gun lobby being responsible aren't the only possibilities. The only "evidence" presented is that the US gov did things in the past. Sorry, not good enough.

BTW, back in my poker playing days I loved playing against people that used "gut feelings" instead of math, psychology and logic. The great thing about poker is you can have a lot of money riding on decisions and opinions, so there are consequences and rewards. It's a great way of learning and using a logical thought process, or pay.

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lanfear63

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

You can suggest anything you want. And I can totally and thoroughly reject it. And I can also say that your suggestion is totally without merit and disregards the feelings of the grieving parents.

But where your bias really shows is that, even if your suggestion was true, you accepted it was the US gov and not the gun lobby that created the hoax without any substantiating evidence at all. None. Nada. Zilch. Zip. Zero.

Even assuming it was a hoax, your motive is totally unsupported. Not to mention, if it were a hoax, the US gov and the gun lobby being responsible aren't the only possibilities. The only "evidence" presented is that the US gov did things in the past. Sorry, not good enough.

BTW, back in my poker playing days I loved playing against people that used "gut feelings" instead of math, psychology and logic. The great thing about poker is you can have a lot of money riding on decisions and opinions, so there are consequences and rewards. It's a great way of learning and using a logical thought process, or pay.

I think you are mis-interpreting what my perception of a gut feeling is. To me they only appear as a result of expertise in a subject, previous experience, previous knowledge, previous observation they appear as an aha moment but initially without any facts to back them up. How often to they pan out though. I would say pretty dam often.

Please continue to believe that every government action is transparent and for your benefit and accurately reported by them and the media. continue to believe what you are fed 100 percent Feel free.

Completely ignore previous form,

Any reference to science logic and math is completely out of place here. Don't know why you even brought them in.

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sbucciarel

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

an aha moment but initially without any facts to back them up.

Well damn. I'm really convinced now.

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lanfear63

8 years ago

You know, I see the world where most people don't really care about about any of this. (whatever their thoughts deep down) True or false, most don't have the time or inclination to want to question, or find out, or research anything.

There lives are so full of the mundane stuff, they just want to get on with it all and as long as stuff does not affect them directly, happy to let it go.

For the most part, I am like that. and can see why it is so. It's only the few that have the motivation to question, to search for truth and push forward and bring about change.

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sbucciarel

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

You know, I see the world where most people don't really care about about any of this. (whatever their thoughts deep down) True or false, most don't have the time or inclination to want to question, or find out, or research anything.

There lives are so full of the mundane stuff, they just want to get on with it all and as long as stuff does not affect them directly, happy to let it go.

For the most part, I am like that. and can see why it is so. It's only the few that have the motivation to question, to search for truth and push forward and bring about change.

I have 4 children and 7 grandchildren so the slaughter of 20 children is not something that I push aside. It affects everyone in this country who has children. It affects everyone in this country who doesn't have children. Anyone can be slaughtered on the street at any time.

You are not seeking the truth. The truth is that a mentally ill person slaughtered 26 people at Newtown, CT. You are seeking people and articles that support your falsehoods and gut feelings, none of which are valid.

You seem to be an entertaining, witty, and intelligent person until the conspiracies come up in a thread and then you're right there on it. Very curious.

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lanfear63

8 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I have 4 children and 7 grandchildren so the slaughter of 20 children is not something that I push aside. It affects everyone in this country who has children. It affects everyone in this country who doesn't have children. Anyone can be slaughtered on the street at any time.

You are not seeking the truth. The truth is that a mentally ill person slaughtered 26 people at Newtown, CT. You are seeking people and articles that support your falsehoods and gut feelings, none of which are valid.

You seem to be an entertaining, witty, and intelligent person until the conspiracies come up in a thread and then you're right there on it. Very curious.

You are misinterpreting my actions. I enjoy conspiracy theories and like surfing through them but don't necessarily believe any of them. I like putting them out there into the mix though to see the reactions of people. It is always healthy to throw in a few Alt views to see what you will get and a challenge to defend them to see where it takes me and the thread. I also like the feedback and counter arguments,

Don't get me wrong though. My arguments for continuance after death and and a few other things are sincere. Some of the stuff I argue for I entertain as being true. This is a rare one for me to be a little skeptical on I will admit.

But, for the most part, I still remain a passive observer and a truth seeker.

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TimPhelan 8 years ago

Here's a video some jerk put out of the grieving parents. Apparently they weren't reacting emotionally the way some people think they should have so they are called fake, actors and in some parts of the video the phrase "no tears" is super imposed over the parents while they are crying! Just terrible bs.

The Happy Sandy Hook Actors - YouTube
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TimPhelan 8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I also like the feedback...

How do you like the feedback you are getting in this one? Lol
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- lanfear63 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TimPhelan
  
  How do you like the feedback you are getting in this one? Lol
  
  Love it, highly stimulating.
  
  Thanks
  
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  BigFrank Banned 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by lanfear63
  
  Love it, highly stimulating.
  
  You're sounding more and more like me. Trust me - this is not a good thing. :-)
  
  Cheers. - Frank
  
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  lanfear63 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by BigFrank
  
  You're sounding more and more like me. Trust me - this is not a good thing. :-)
  
  Cheers. - Frank
  
  Yeah, but your just lovable evil.
  
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  BigFrank Banned 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by lanfear63
  
  Yeah, but your just evil.
  
  Made that factual for you.
  
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sbucciarel

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

But, for the most part, I still remain a passive observer and a truth seeker.

Your posts on this seem neither passive nor truthful. They just seem disrespectful of the 20 innocents who died plus 6 staff who were slaughtered that day.

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Claude Whitacre

8 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Your posts on this seem neither passive nor truthful. They just seem disrespectful of the 20 innocents who died plus 6 staff who were slaughtered that day.

Suzanne; I didn't see that in any of his posts. It may be the entire idea that is disrespectful (I'm assuming).

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sbucciarel

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

It may be the entire idea that is disrespectful (I'm assuming).

It is the entire idea that people are saying that those children and staff did not die that day that is disrespectful to me and probably to those grieving family members as well.

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lanfear63

8 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

It is the entire idea that people are saying that those children and staff did not die that day that is disrespectful to me and probably to those grieving family members as well.

If I spend my whole life believing the Earth is flat and then the astronauts go up and prove conclusively the Earth is round, is that disrespectful to me?

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sbucciarel Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

If I spend my whole life believing the Earth is flat and then the astronauts go up and prove conclusively the Earth is round, is that disrespectful to me?

How is that relevant to the topic of 26 people dieing? Not even remotely similar.
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- lanfear63 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by sbucciarel
  
  How is that relevant to the topic of 26 people dieing? Not even remotely similar.
  
  It's believing that something is so when it may not be.
  
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TimPhelan 8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

If I spend my whole life believing the Earth is flat and then the astronauts go up and prove conclusively the Earth is round...

You mean you actually believe astronauts go into outer space? What proof do you have? What the mainstream media tells you to believe? Lol
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- lanfear63 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TimPhelan
  
  You mean you actually believe astronauts go into outer space? What proof do you have? What the mainstream media tells you to believe? Lol
  
  Claude told me he was an astro-nut and had floated around in a vacuum. And that's good enough for me.
  
  Yes I'm from England but have lived in the Houston for over 10 years now. Still learning how to read, write and speak the language.
  
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  BigFrank Banned 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by lanfear63
  
  Yes I'm from England but have lived in the Houston for over 10 years now. Still learning how to read, write and speak the language.
  
  Very slim chance of that happening in Texas.
  
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lanfear63

8 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Your posts on this seem neither passive nor truthful. They just seem disrespectful of the 20 innocents who died plus 6 staff who were slaughtered that day.

Your clouding this with emotional attachment. I am questioning it ever happening. Different thing. Also, if you read what I said in my last post I said I am skeptical on this one so not being passive at all. I was merely putting a case forward which explored why this would be done and brought some POSSIBLE photographic evidence as to the location being a remote abandoned collection of buildings suitable for its orchestration. No intention of untruthfulness ever.

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sbucciarel Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Your clouding this with emotional attachment.

I'm doing no such thing. I didn't know those victims personally, although I feel deeply for their loss, I don't suffer any personal attachment. I simply find the conspiracy theories on this topic to be the work of idiots. It would take a real stretch of the imagination that all the media and all law enforcement involved colluded to create a fictional scene of carnage unimaginable to most people to further a financial or political scheme.
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Kurt

8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Your clouding this with emotional attachment. I am questioning it ever happening. Different thing. Also, if you read what I said in my last post I said I am skeptical on this one so not being passive at all. I was merely putting a case forward which explored why this would be done and brought some POSSIBLE photographic evidence as to the location being a remote abandoned collection of buildings suitable for its orchestration. No intention of untruthfulness ever.

By questioning if it ever happened you are implying that it's possible the parents of the dead children could be lying is what's disrespectful. Most people RESPECT the feelings people that have lost loved ones have and don't call them liars.

BTW, by you using a "gut feeling" you have made yourself emotionally attached as well as biased. Since your "gut feeling", you have not be objective but instead have tried to seek out ways to "prove" your gut feeling. This is a very common thought process...form an opinion first, THEN try to find evidence to support that opinion.

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Kurt 8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

If I spend my whole life believing the Earth is flat and then the astronauts go up and prove conclusively the Earth is round, is that disrespectful to me?

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

How is that relevant to the topic of 26 people dieing? Not even remotely similar.

SB is correct, it's not relevant and is non-sequitur. It's also a straw man as Lanfear hasn't proven anything.
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lanfear63

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

By questioning if it ever happened you are implying that it's possible the parents of the dead children could be lying is what's disrespectful. Most people RESPECT the feelings people that have lost loved ones have.

BTW, by you using a "gut feeling" you have made yourself emotionally attached as well as biased. Since your "gut feeling", you have not be objective but instead have tried to seek out ways to "prove" your gut feeling. This is a very common thought process...form an opinion first, THEN try to find evidence to support that opinion.

You are very emotionally attached to this as you keep bringing up the subject of these alleged grieving parents, none of whom have ever surfaced to talk about it since to my knowledge.

I have little or no attachment or emotional involvement in death or mass death which happens all the time in all sorts of ways. As I have said before, I do not consider death as an end to life but merely a transition to another state. Yep, I may miss that person no longer being around for a while but I'm not mourning their death.

My gut reaction to the days events were based on two very close hand previous observations of events. My Chancellor being driven to the location from our admin buildings in tears to the college not 10 minutes down the road. Followed it and observed it all very closely. This led me to question what I saw in the media at Sandy Hook.

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sbucciarel

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

You are very emotionally attached to this as you keep bringing up the subject of these alleged grieving parents, none of whom have ever surfaced to talk about it since to my knowledge.

I have little or no attachment or emotional involvement in death or mass death which happens all the time in all sorts of ways. As I have said before, I do not consider death as an end to life but merely a transition to another state. Yep, I may miss that person no longer being around for a while but I'm not mourning their death.

My gut reaction to the days events were based on two very close hand previous observations of events. My Chancellor being driven to the location from our admin buildings in tears to the college not 10 minutes down the road. Followed it and observed it all very closely. This led me to question what I saw in the media at Sandy Hook.

Your gut reaction, along with two unrelated events are completely irrelevant. They are not facts or proof of anything any more than anyone's gut reaction who weren't there are. You can follow whatever you want very closely, however, you have zero facts or proof to validate your conspiracy theory. Whether or not you believe in transition or any other fairy tale is also irrelevant. There were and are 26 grieving families that you have stated that you don't care about. Some of the parents have been in the media, however, some of the parents wanted privacy during the horrendous events that took place there. Why any parent would have anything to say in this instance is beyond me. I completely understand the desire to grieve in private and attempt to heal from one of the worst events that could ever happen to a family.

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lanfear63

8 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Your gut reaction, along with two unrelated events are completely irrelevant. They are not facts or proof of anything any more than anyone's gut reaction who weren't there are. You can follow whatever you want very closely, however, you have zero facts or proof to validate your conspiracy theory. Whether or not you believe in transition or any other fairy tale is also irrelevant. There were and are 26 grieving families that you have stated that you don't care about. Some of the parents have been in the media, however, some of the parents wanted privacy during the horrendous events that took place there. Why any parent would have anything to say in this instance is beyond me. I completely understand the desire to grieve in private and attempt to heal from one of the worst events that could ever happen to a family.

The only evidence you have, like for most people, is that it was reported in the media that day and like most people you took it for granted as accurate reporting and believed it.

There are enough class action lawsuits out there for inaccurate reporting and defamation of character to make me not trust the media 100 percent.

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lanfear63

8 years ago

I just thought I would share with you a brief PM I got from someone who suggested I go and see a doctor and my reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmcdonald909
Seriously, you need some help!

Thank you for your interest but I can assure you I am as sane as the next man.

If this is about the Sandy Hook Thread: Yes, I enjoy surfing and playing with conspiracy theories and mostly don't believe a word of it. However, this one, because I observed on two occasions the overwhelming response to a shooting at colleges I work for I watched the Sandy Hook coverage with dis-belief. Not a sign of the response that compared with 2 relatively minor incidents at our colleges got. I thought at the time, this is not real, this is fake. Going through the motions.

Putting aside all the other stuff that has been put out since and regardless of it. I still feel that way about it.

Unthinkable is it not.

Have a nice day.

And to the above I add here:, I shied away from ever starting a thread on this and perhaps should not have commented as the reactions as I expected, would be fierce. This is mostly my personal opinion based on the observation of close to home, previous protocol response, nothing more.

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Cali16

8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Originally Posted by jimmcdonald909
Seriously, you need some help!

That's absurd!

Originally Posted by lanfear63

and perhaps should not have commented as the reactions as I expected, would be fierce. This is mostly my personal opinion based on the observation of close to home, previous protocol response, nothing more.

Mark, we're all allowed to express our opinions and perspectives here, and sometimes those are going to seriously clash with someone else's because we all come from different backgrounds and life experiences. Even though you ruffled some feathers (you're certainly not the first to do that!), you didn't do anything wrong by expressing your views.

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Claude Whitacre

8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I just thought I would share with you a brief PM I got from someone who suggested I go and see a doctor and my reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmcdonald909
Seriously, you need some help!

Mark; You should report the PM. Seriously. I know I would. You would be doing everyone a service.

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Kay King 8 years ago

What does the secret city have to do with the HP?

You'd have to read the thread to find out - including facts/sources outside HP.
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TLTheLiberator

8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Dare I suggest that many arrests and prosecutions have been made in bringing people to justice based on initial gut feeling, because that gut feeling is based on knowledge and previous experience and patterns of criminal behaviour. My gut feeling was based on observing the response to a shooting very close to home. I work for that college system.

Are you saying you live/work close to the Sandy Hook tragedy?

If so, do you think it's a hoax?

Do you have any questions?

Has something important been left out of the general reporting?

Are you saying it's an hoax anyway?

Oh, OK, I think in post #3 of this thread you said there may be something to the professors' story.

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sbucciarel

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Alleged photo's of Sandy Hook from 10/12/2014. Hardly anyone there. Abandoned buildings galore. I suppose you should go and see for yourself to confirm or refute that but if there is any credence to the hoax story then populating it for a while to perpetrate a hoax would make sense. The guy of course says it's a government owned facade.

Abandoned steel mill Pittsburgh, PA ... nothing to see in Pittsburgh. It's a ghost town. Nobody there

Baltimore is a ghost town too. No one there.

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Midnight Oil

8 years ago

Damn . . . Starbucks is involved in the Newtown ghost town conspiracy, also.

Find locations near you with the Starbucks store locator | Starbucks Coffee Company

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sbucciarel

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Midnight Oil

Damn . . . Starbucks is involved in the Newtown ghost town conspiracy, also.

Find locations near you with the Starbucks store locator | Starbucks Coffee Company

Someone did a very good job of staging a real town in Newtown to promote the theory that people actually live there.

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Midnight Oil 8 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Someone did a very good job of staging a real town in Newtown to promote the theory that people actually live there.

Hmmm . . . That car parked across the street . . .

He didn't get out of the COCKADOODIE CAR!
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- Kay King 8 years ago
  
  PHOTOS: 3rd anniversary of Sandy Hook school shootings - The Daily Breeze Media Center
  
  How could anyone look at those photos and believe it was all staged?
  
  Some public figures lie or exaggerate and are totally discredited professionally (Williams) - others lie and make excuses or 'don't remember' and the scandal fades away (Warren) - still others are never called out on the lies to begin with. That's part of the digital age we live in - selective scorn.
  
  It's surprising to me that some still expect "more" from the US. For generations we manufactured and invented and our family farms fed the country and the world. No longer the case and I think sadly we bought into our own hype along the way.
  
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yukon

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Someone did a very good job of staging a real town in Newtown to promote the theory that people actually live there.

America Is Building A Fake City To Test Drones In

Nuclear Bomb Tests (1955) Dummy Town - YouTube

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Kay King

8 years ago

More HuffPost? More slanted 'news'. They say "construction will be finished in the next year or so" - totally false. Also, the non-mentioned location is not a secret on other media sites.

CITE: The $1 billion city with no residents - CNN.com

Is This Planned Ghost Town the City of the Future? | WIRED

It's a test city for technology products - just started building and won't be dont until 2018 earliest. "America" is not building it - private enterprise is.

The goal of CITE is to provide an opportunity to test large-scale tech experiments in real-world conditions "without anyone getting hurt," explains Bob Brumley, managing director of Pegasus. (Previously, Brumley was CEO of a satellite and telecomm company, and he chaired the Reagan Administration policy group that privatized commercial space transportation.)

Brumley hopes to have the utilities infrastructure done in about 24 months and the city built between 2018 and 2020. If CITE succeeds, it will provide a fascinating peek into how weird and wonderful our future cities might be.

I think 10 years from now this city will be a fascinating experiment.

I wonder if 50 years after it's done people will be laughing at how ridiculous our view of "the future" was. Much like we laugh now at the Jetson like predictions of the 50's and 60's?

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yukon

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

More HuffPost? More slanted 'news'. They say "construction will be finished in the next year or so" - totally false. Also, the non-mentioned location is not a secret on other media sites.

CITE: The $1 billion city with no residents - CNN.com

Is This Planned Ghost Town the City of the Future? | WIRED

It's a test city for technology products - just started building and won't be dont until 2018 earliest. "America" is not building it - private enterprise is.

I think 10 years from now this city will be a fascinating experiment.

I wonder if 50 years after it's done people will be laughing at how ridiculous our view of "the future" was. Much like we laugh now at the Jetson like predictions of the 50's and 60's?

Maybe CNN & WIRED are part of the master plan against Huffington?

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Kay King

8 years ago

If so, I'll join that cause!

I used to enjoy HP but they've become so commercialized they'll print anything for attention. Other media are often the same but most don't ignore facts and figures to create a certain perception as HP seems willing to do.

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TLTheLiberator

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

If so, I'll join that cause!

I used to enjoy HP but they've become so commercialized they'll print anything for attention. Other media are often the same but most don't ignore facts and figures to create a certain perception as HP seems willing to do.

Are you saying the HUffPost is promoting the Sandy Hook Massacre conspiracies and/or others - or do you have it confused with the HuffPost simply reporting on those that promote it and stories etc., surrounding that tragedy.

Show me where they promoted/reported on that type of mess without calling it crazy.

I'd really love to see it.

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Kay King

8 years ago

Not sure why you feel the need to defend Huffington Post but I don't think I'll play that game.

The story of the "secret city" in this section is one good example.

Kurt - I agree about Alex Jones - and there are people like that on both sides. The rest of us need to use discretion and common sense to decide what we believe and what we think is pure bullfeathers.

The same story that makes one person go "there's proof - I KNEW it"....makes the next person go "do you have facts to support that claim?" ...and the world keeps turning in spite of us.

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TLTheLiberator

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Not sure why you feel the need to defend Huffington Post but I don't think I'll play that game.

The story of the "secret city" in this section is one good example.

I bet you don't.

What about it? What does the secret city have to do with the HP?

Oh, because Alex Jones was negatively mentioned you decided to even the score to include the HP as another troublesome source because you believe they keep bringing up conspiracy stuff - too much for your liking?

You mentioned that before.

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Cali16

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Honestly, I don't think that's it. Some people just think in a way that creates these impossible scenarios. To them, everything is part of a grand plot, a hoax, there is always a sinister motive. And, I also think it requires a lack of cognitive abilities.

He may be slightly schizophrenic.

I know this is your field, but can't people just be delusional?

You bring up some good points, Claude.

Yes, it's possible that he's a highly functioning schizophrenic (doubtful) or suffers from delusional disorder. But, I don't know anything about him except that he's a tenured associate professor at a university, so I can only speculate regarding his motives or what's fueling his extreme beliefs.

He could also just be highly cynical (or mildly paranoid in his view of the world) and self-absorbed, seeking fame - even if it comes in the form of infamy and public disgrace - and / or far too invested in his theory at this point to let it go.

I agree it seems there's a lack of something, mostly logic and sound reasoning, because as you, myself, and others have pointed out, the number of people who would have to have agreed to participate in - and perpetuate - such a hoax would be tremendous and highly implausible.

Then again, it's amazing how many people also believe the Holocaust never actually happened.

People can become very emotionally attached to a belief or belief system (religion is a good example of this, and there are lots of wild stories in almost every major religion) even when it defies logic on so many levels, but not be delusional. They put on blinders and filter out anything that doesn't support their particular beliefs.

Based on the video, he appears to be in his 50s, and has obviously been high-functioning enough to earn a tenured teaching position. Delusional disorder would be a much more likely diagnosis than schizophrenia, as it often develops later in life and, in many cases, causes little to no psychosocial impairment (unlike schizophrenia).

Whether or not he's delusional, per se, is impossible to say without more information. Many people believe in highly unlikely conspiracies without meeting the criteria for psychosis. That being said, I've seen a lot of psychotic individuals who had some pretty wild conspiracy stories, but the conspiracy almost always revolved around them personally.

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

To me, that's insane. Not cruel, just insane.

The cruel part, IMO, was his demand of proof from the parents that their child ever lived. But, if he's truly delusional, then yes, one could argue that his intentions weren't cruel, even though that's how they appear on the surface.

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BigFrank Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

That being said, I've seen a lot of psychotic individuals who had some pretty wild conspiracy stories,

Then there's folks like me. Nuttier than a Christmas fruitcake and have never believed in a single conspiracy theory.

So - who's crazy, now. :-)

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jimmcdonald909

8 years ago

So what about the people on this forum that believe him? And they'll be some.

are they too..."MAD"?

Originally Posted by Cali16

You bring up some good points, Claude.

Yes, it's possible that he's a highly functioning schizophrenic (doubtful) or suffers from delusional disorder. But, I don't know anything about him except that he's a tenured associate professor at a university, so I can only speculate regarding his motives or what's fueling his extreme beliefs.

He could also just be highly cynical (or mildly paranoid in his view of the world) and self-absorbed, seeking fame - even if it comes in the form of infamy and public disgrace - and / or far too invested in his theory at this point to let it go.

I agree it seems there's a lack of something, mostly logic and sound reasoning, because as you, myself, and others have pointed out, the number of people who would have to have agreed to participate in - and perpetuate - such a hoax would be tremendous and highly implausible.

Then again, it's amazing how many people also believe the Holocaust never actually happened.

People can become very emotionally attached to a belief or belief system (religion is a good example of this, and there are lots of wild stories in almost every major religion) even when it defies logic on so many levels, but not be delusional. They put on blinders and filter out anything that doesn't support their particular beliefs.

Based on the video, he appears to be in his 50s, and has obviously been high-functioning enough to earn a tenured teaching position. Delusional disorder would be a much more likely diagnosis than schizophrenia, as it often develops later in life and, in many cases, causes little to no psychosocial impairment (unlike schizophrenia).

Whether or not he's delusional, per se, is impossible to say without more information. Many people believe in highly unlikely conspiracies without meeting the criteria for psychosis. That being said, I've seen a lot of psychotic individuals who had some pretty wild conspiracy stories, but the conspiracy almost always revolved around them personally.

The cruel part, IMO, was his demand of proof from the parents that their child ever lived. But, if he's truly delusional, then yes, one could argue that his intentions weren't cruel, even though that's how they appear on the surface.

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Claude Whitacre

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

Based on the video, he appears to be in his 50s, and has obviously been high-functioning enough to earn a tenured teaching position. Delusional disorder would be a much more likely diagnosis than schizophrenia, as it often develops later in life and, in many cases, causes little to no psychosocial impairment (unlike schizophrenia).

Whether or not he's delusional, per se, is impossible to say without more information. Many people believe in highly unlikely conspiracies without meeting the criteria for psychosis. That being said, I've seen a lot of psychotic individuals who had some pretty wild conspiracy stories, but the conspiracy almost always revolved around them personally.

Revealing. I hadn't considered the onset age for schizophrenia, and I should have. You're right, the fact that the delusion doesn't involve them personally, excludes schizophrenia.

Thanks for clearing it up.

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Cali16

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Revealing. I hadn't considered the onset age for schizophrenia, and I should have. You're right, the fact that the delusion doesn't involve them personally, excludes schizophrenia.

Thanks for clearing it up.

Just to clarify - schizophrenia can develop later in life, but it's uncommon. But it also significantly impacts other areas of functioning, and this guy appears to be high functioning to hold down a tenured position (which is why I think schizophrenia is highly unlikely in this case). Delusions are just one of many potential symptoms of schizophrenia.

As for whether or not the delusion involves them personally - that's often the case (in both delusional disorder and schizophrenia, and in my experience) but that doesn't mean they can't have delusions that don't revolve around them in both disorders. For example, a delusion that Obama is really an evil alien (disguised as a human) or Russian spy with ulterior motives, and the country needs to know before he destroys us all (that's just an example off the top of my head). So, the delusional person, for whatever reason, has become fixated on Obama and may try to get the "message" out.

Where it can get more confusing (with diagnoses) is determining whether the delusion is "bizarre" or not (and there's some subjectivity to that, depending on cultural and other factors). In my example, believing he's an alien would be classified as a bizarre delusion, whereas Russian spy wouldn't. Delusional disorder can only be diagnosed if the delusions aren't bizarre (and if there aren't other symptoms suggesting schizophrenia) - if they're bizarre in nature, then schizophrenia is diagnosed.

The idea that the Sandy Hook massacre was a hoax wouldn't be classified as bizarre (unless something like aliens orchestrating the whole thing were part of the theory), even though it's extremely far-fetched.

Probably way more than you wanted to know...

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Claude Whitacre

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

Just to clarify - schizophrenia can develop later in life, but it's uncommon. But it also significantly impacts other areas of functioning, and this guy appears to be high functioning to hold down a tenured position (which is why I think schizophrenia is highly unlikely in this case). Delusions are just one of many potential symptoms of schizophrenia.

As for whether or not the delusion involves them personally - that's often the case (in both delusional disorder and schizophrenia, and in my experience) but that doesn't mean they can't have delusions that don't revolve around them in both disorders. For example, a delusion that Obama is really an evil alien (disguised as a human) or Russian spy with ulterior motives, and the country needs to know before he destroys us all (that's just an example off the top of my head). So, the delusional person, for whatever reason, has become fixated on Obama and may try to get the "message" out.

Where it can get more confusing (with diagnoses) is determining whether the delusion is "bizarre" or not (and there's some subjectivity to that, depending on cultural and other factors). In my example, believing he's an alien would be classified as a bizarre delusion, whereas Russian spy wouldn't. Delusional disorder can only be diagnosed if the delusions aren't bizarre (and if there aren't other symptoms suggesting schizophrenia) - if they're bizarre in nature, then schizophrenia is diagnosed.

The idea that the Sandy Hook massacre was a hoax wouldn't be classified as bizarre (unless something like aliens orchestrating the whole thing were part of the theory), even though it's extremely far-fetched.

Probably way more than you wanted to know...

Nope. Certainly not more than I wanted to know. Your insights expand and clarify my understanding......Baby.

See? I still got game.

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lanfear63 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Nope. Certainly not more than I wanted to know. Your insights expand and clarify my understanding......Baby.

See? I still got game.

I wondered what the smell was.

Had a flash of Deja Vu there.
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Cali16 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

See? I still got game.

Speaking of delusions.....
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Kurt

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Honestly, I don't think that's it. Some people just think in a way that creates these impossible scenarios. To them, everything is part of a grand plot, a hoax, there is always a sinister motive. And, I think it requires a lack of cognitive abilities.
It also requires a patient mother that lets you live in her basement until you are 35 years old.

He may be slightly schizophrenic. If he actually met the parents, he wouldn't believe them, they would become part of the plot, the cover-up. Videos of the kids, records of their birth, testimonials of people at the funerals, would all get woven into the story...as further proof that it's a hoax. His story is impenetrable.

I've met a few of these people. Different conspiracy theories, but the same structure to them. They usually can carry on a decent conversation...until you get to their "thing". And then they have proof, created by associations that they made up. It's all held together by one big idea. And if that big idea would be proven wrong, their reality would collapse. So....it cannot be wrong. If they believe we never went to the Moon, nothing can convince them that we went. Even if they went to the Moon themselves and saw the landing module and the rover. Even if they felt the lighter gravity, and saw the Earth. They would construct their experience as further proof that there was no Moon landing.

They would say that the rover and landing module were hastily constructed, and the gravity was reduced by a "gravity reducer ray" that they just found out about on a Youtube video. And the trip there and back was done in a simulator, and the lack of atmosphere was done with an "Interocitor". Everything would support their ever tightening fantasy.

And Sandy Hook didn't happen, as part of a hoax. Nothing will convince them otherwise.

I know this is your field, but can't people just be delusional?

If it was a hoax, who would have to be in on it? The school, everyone that works there. The parents of the students, the police that arrived at the school, everyone that was at the victim's funerals, all the people investigating the incident.

They would all have to share the same exact story, forever.

To me, that's not cruel, just delusional.

It's just an opinion, and you are more than qualified to offer a better idea.

Remember the "9/11 was a plot, and the government did it"?

Here, on this forum, we heard that everyone was in on it, robots flew the plane, or was it clones?, or the passengers were dead bodies, or the plane landed on an island, the passengers in hiding...or was it to another dimension?

Every nonsensical idea shown to be impossible, was immediately replaced by another cause that still fit the "story". No thought was given to whether the idea was impossible or not, as long as it fit.

Those people are still here.

I doubt there's a single factor for people concerning conspiracy theories. One is that a person is a provocateur/profiteer and doesn't actually believe the theories themselves and uses the theories just to push emotional buttons.

I'm not 100% sure someone like Alex Jones actually believes many of the theories he pushes. Sometimes I get the feeling he is just spouting off to rile up his followers so he can make more money.

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TimPhelan 8 years ago

These crazy theories about Sandy Hook came out right after the shootings. I remember some of the parents being harassed and one of the big conspiracy stories was this one dad of a dead child gave a news conference and had a nervous smile beforehand. Because of this he was called an actor who was a part of a hoax. :/
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sbucciarel

Banned 8 years ago

Just beyond belief to me that anyone would try to discredit those parents, all for the sake of gun control ... or rather attempting to make this a story about mass murder to promote gun control. How people's minds are so twisted that this would even occur to them is beyond me. It's clear that the issue of guns are the single most important thing in these cretins lives and they would do or say anything at all to promote gun ownership.

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yukon

Banned 8 years ago

If he was fired I hope the guy sues the university considering they hired him for these types of comments/articles.

His personal blog is dated back to 2012 with the same kind of content so the university obviously didn't have a problem with the guy.

[source]

James Tracy teaches courses examining the relationship between commercial and alternative news media and socio-political issues and events. His recent work has been published in Journalism Practice, Work, Organisation, Labour and Globalisation, and two edited volumes. He is editor of Democratic Communiqué, journal of the Union for Democratic Communications, an affiliate of Project Censored, and a regular contributor to GlobalResearch.ca.

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jimmcdonald909

8 years ago

Good grief....

You know, please don't take this personally....but there are a lot of weird cookies in the U.S.A.
No matter what happens you seem to have a % that think everything is fake/cover up/con job.

JFK,Elvis,Every war, Moon landing, 9/11..and now this.

Do some Americans think the world is flat? WW1 and 2 were made up..and actually there are no other countries it's ALL A CONSPIRACY.
A small % seem hell bent on denying everything. Why is that?

Even on here now, there are some people saying "there could be something to his...." Seriously.....What the... are you on?

From the point of sanity....IT'S ABSOLUTELY WEIRD BEYOND BELIEF!

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Kay King

8 years ago

Yes, there are a lot of weird cookies - all over the world.

In the US we have the HuffPost and another couple sites to keep bringing up the same old conspiracies every few months....

Some blogs thrive on the shocking headlines - but never seem to get around to mentioning the falsified photos or disproven claims....

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jimmcdonald909

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Yes, there are a lot of weird cookies - all over the world.

In the US we have the HuffPost and another couple sites to keep bringing up the same old conspiracies every few months....

Some blogs thrive on the shocking headlines - but never seem to get around to mentioning the falsified photos or disproven claims....

Yeah you are right. It's not personally against the U.S..A. I am sure just as many psycho's in other countries. I kind of expected a much higher standard from the USA though. I am amazed there is so much of this stuff and grown (educated..cough,cough) people believe it.

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jimmcdonald909

8 years ago

R.O.F.L. i wish there was an age limit to this forum....or a sanity check first. Geez.....wtf is he on about?

Occasionally a person walks a dog or sits in their parked car for no reason. Nothing makes any sense.
Quote:
I pulled over at the Firehouse to take photos, and directly across the street was a ramshackle house with 5 people standing in full view in their DRIVEWAY, in front of their front door, having beers………. for no reason. Who stands just outside their front door in the driveway, socializing?

OMG! People walking dogs and sitting in cars! People standing in their driveways! People drinking beer! BEER!!! What the hell could possibly be going on there???? Nothing makes any sense!!!

Sheesh . . .

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jimmcdonald909

8 years ago

These people that believe all these conspiracy theories.....what is it with them?

Chip on their shoulders? Thick/uneducated? Too much time on their hands? Hidden agendas? Plain mad as a hatter?

I can't get my head around an average, educated person believing this s***.

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BigFrank Banned 8 years ago

"Who stands just outside their front door in the driveway, socializing? "

They weren't socializing. They were plotting about how to slip a Kenyan born infant female into the US to become America's first, black woman president, 40 years from now.

Cheers. - Frank
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yukon Banned 8 years ago
Originally Posted by jimmcdonald909

These people that believe all these conspiracy theories.....what is it with them?

Did you hear Brian Williams was shot down in a helicopter by enemy fire over Iraq?
- Brian Williams lied about his copter being shot, forced down in Iraq
Brian Williams, the nation’s top-rated news anchor, has admitted fabricating a tale of being forced down by enemy fire in a helicopter over Iraq a dozen years ago.

Still believe the media? For all we know the Fox News story about Brian Williams lying is fake.

Welcome to the internet/media/circus.
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jimmcdonald909

8 years ago

To them that's only a small obstacle on the rightous path to "discover the truth and set us all free...." I guess an insane person doesn't actually think he's insane..??

And Sandy Hook didn't happen, as part of a hoax. Nothing will convince them otherwise.

I know this is your field, but can't people just be delusional?

If it was a hoax, who would have to be in on it? The school, everyone that works there. The parents of the students, the police that arrived at the school, everyone that was at the victim's funerals, all the people investigating the incident.

They would all have to share the same exact story, forever.

To me, that's not cruel, just delusional.

9/11...wow i mean that was the cover up of all cover ups....must have took SOME planning. What else....moon landing, Elvis, Michael Jackson, Princess Diana every war, terrorist attack...always a new one around the corner for these lunatics to jump on.

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Ken Leatherman

8 years ago

As I was watching the video interview through the screen door, the professor managed to mention he had written a book on the subject.. I guess his book sales were lagging and gave him the incentive to stir up sales.

Whatever his reasons were, in my very humble opinion, what he did was atrocious and completely uncalled for.

My heart goes out to the families he has deeply offended.

Ken

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alistair

8 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

You can follow whatever you want very closely, however, you have zero facts or proof to validate your conspiracy theory.

What facts or proof do you have that it was real? I'm guessing your facts or proof are provided by the mainstream media? I'm not saying it's real or not as I don't know enough about it, but what I do know of it I don't believe it was faked.

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sbucciarel

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by alistair

What facts or proof do you have that it was real? I'm guessing your facts or proof are provided by the mainstream media? I'm not saying it's real or not as I don't know enough about it, but what I do know of it I don't believe it was faked.

Well, you're from England so you not knowing much about it isn't such a surprise, but those from anywhere with access to newspapers, and TV in the US were deluged with it for weeks. Needless to say, the death of 20 children is going to be covered for weeks by every single major and minor news organization. It simply isn't feasible that every single news organization and every single law enforcement agency involved were in on an enormous hoax. That, combined with interviews with teachers and other parents .... well, you have to be flaky as pie crust to believe the conspiracy theorists. And I know there are a lot of Americans who are as flaky as pie crust, so this doesn't surprise me at all.

Lanfear mentioned he didn't see any interviews by parents. He would probably call them actors even if he had, but the typical response of families who are grieving, particularly those who have lost a child, is to request that the media respect their privacy and allow them to grieve privately. How many people do you ever see who enjoys the spotlight when engulfed in grief? Certainly not me. I wouldn't want the media anywhere near me at that time. There were, if I remember right, a couple of parents who made a statement a couple or so weeks after the massacre that stated that they did not support gun control measures.

The parents
Newtown families reflect on Sandy Hook massacre's 2 year anniversary - TODAY.com

Families of Sandy Hook victims outraged after 'unconscionable' Chipper Jones tweet called the massacre a 'hoax'

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Cali16 8 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

well, you have to be flaky as pie crust to believe the conspiracy theorists

"Flaky as pie crust" - I definitely need to remember that phrase!
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discrat 8 years ago

Originally Posted by alistair

What facts or proof do you have that it was real? .

Different unrelated sources that have reported on the exact same thing over a period of time.
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yukon

Banned 8 years ago

Considering the professors social/political background he's probably working on a project to see how the public would respond.

There's always going to be people that take other folks problems personal even though they will never meet those people or in no way ever be in those types of situations. They want to cling to the underdog for whatever injustice they think they've witnessed.

There's also always going to be people that follow a person that stirs up a hornets nest. Doesn't matter If it's right or wrong, it just matters that it fits what they want to believe, same as the underdog folks.

Controversy will always get people hooked on a subject & bickering back & forth. To be honest, none of this matters either way considering none of this changes anything. There's always going to be liars on both sides of dramatic events, even the media (Brian Williams) stuck in the middle of a story will lie to gain something.

In the end it all boils down to which liar do you want believe.

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Claude Whitacre

8 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Considering the professors social/political background he's probably working on a project to see how the public would respond.

There's always going to be people that take other folks problems personal even though they will never meet those people or in no way ever be in those types of situations. They want to cling to the underdog for whatever injustice they think they've witnessed.

There's also always going to be people that follow a person that stirs up a hornets nest. Doesn't matter If it's right or wrong, it just matters that it fits what they want to believe, same as the underdog folks.

Controversy will always get people hooked on a subject & bickering back & forth. To be honest, none of this matters either way considering none of this changes anything. There's always going to be liars on both sides of dramatic events, even the media (Brian Williams) stuck in the middle of a story will lie to gain something..

There is an audience for any kind of contrary opinion, or any type of controversy/hearsay/conspiracy theory.

And anyone willing to loudly make proclamations will have some of that audience. A book will get sold, interviews will come. I agree.

Originally Posted by yukon

In the end it all boils down to which liar do you want believe.

Not always. And we have to watch out for that. Just because we like someone, doesn't mean what they tell us is real. This is where rational thinking comes in.

And some "theories", no matter where they come from, are just impossible....and some fly in the face of probability.

I've had people I loved and completely trusted..tell me the most outrageous things. Some, they truly believed, and a few were lies to make themselves feel better.

And I've caught myself wanting to believe something that fit my world view, just because it fit, and not because it was rational. The struggle continues.

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discrat

8 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Controversy will always get people hooked on a subject & bickering back & forth. To be honest, none of this matters either way considering none of this changes anything. There's always going to be liars on both sides of dramatic events, even the media (Brian Williams) stuck in the middle of a story will lie to gain something.

.

Yeah I agree. Controversy sells. About 2 months I decided to get rid of some of the Tabloid/Controversy media that I had gotten used to looking at multiple times everyday. I have gone cold turkey, abstaining from 2 of my biggest vices..Yahoo News and Facebook.

It's a liberating feeling to wash my hands clean of these two sites.
I have been working of liberating myself from the OT forum. And this Thread may be the tipping stone to do it. LOL

Just some ridiculousness notions here about Conspiracy Theories and Sandy Hook.

I side with Suzy. One despicable thing I noticed about Human beings is their somewhat cold and many times morbid curiosity concerning tragedies that happen to normal people.

These sandy hook parents should be left the hell alone. People demanding the parents to act one way and do this interview this way or that way.

This is disgusting. Many people just have the lack of ability to visualize what it would be like to been in someone else's shoes

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technomatters

8 years ago

Really a horrible thing. OMG

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Camilo

8 years ago

when you google the hoax and read the evidence, its just a bunch of misinformation and circustances. but when a conspiracy theorist wants to see something they will

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Claude Whitacre

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Camilo

when you google the hoax and read the evidence, its just a bunch of misinformation and circustances. but when a conspiracy theorist wants to see something they will

Are you from NASA? Because that's something those guys at NASA would say.

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lanfear63 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Are you from NASA? Because that's something those guys at NASA would say.

"its just a bunch of misinformation and circustances"

He's probably a Lion Tamer.
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alycium

8 years ago

Lanfear, you're not alone. I don't even TRY to speak about these things in public and hardly ever online. Many people will believe the media over any research you've done or just what you see with your own eyes.

Which, is odd, because it's the only thing everyone knows... Is what the media said about the tragedy. So, I guess it would be hard for certain people to think for themselves and question something and even go as far as to doing a little bit of your own research.

I don't want to get into this mess, Just wanted you to know that I respect the fact that you questioned something and decided to look into it with your own God given brain, and you've pointed out some interested facts of the past, Some I had no clue about, so thank you for that.

I'll just leave this here...

Rahm Emanuel: You never want a serious crisis to...

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Cali16 8 years ago

Originally Posted by alycium

Which, is odd, because it's the only thing everyone knows... Is what the media said about the tragedy.

Well, except for the multiple families and friends who lost loved ones that day, and all the members of the immediate community, and all of their collective extended families and friends... which, considering 26 lives were tragically ended that day, ends up being a lot of people... All of whom would have had to agree to participate in such a hoax.

Contrary to what you may think, most of us here aren't clueless idiots who can't think for ourselves and believe everything is exactly as portrayed by the media. However, that doesn't mean we believe every ridiculously far-fetched conspiracy theory either.
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seasoned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by alycium

Rahm Emanuel: You never want a serious crisis to go to waste - YouTube

He has explained this HIMSELF, and many others have said the SAME thing, but what he means is that if there is a tragedy, or you can MANUFACTURE one, PROMOTE IT! EXPLOIT IT! EMBELLISH IT! And DO ALL YOU CAN to use it like a crow bar to get people to do what they would never do in reality to allow you to get YOUR agenda through, even though it hurts THEM.

And you see this ALL THE TIME! A black argues with the police, and refuses to even identify himself, and is OBSTINATE! If I did that, I might be SHOT! Obama used it to claim the police "acted stupidly". NO, that has been SOP for MANY MANY DECADES! So WHY did obama say it? To engender RACISM! When TREYVON was shot, they tried to make him look younger and smaller, and lied, to try to make zimmerman look like a white racist. And obama said that if he had a son the child would look like treyvon. AGAIN, to engender racism. And with any killing by non police officers, he tries to tie it to guns even if guns weren't used.

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writeaway

8 years ago

He got fired?

Well, at least there's one alternative career open for him....

He can be making tons of cash running those highly viral conspiracy theory FB pages.

Those ridiculously funny conspiracy picture quote shares on FB are a hoot.

They spread like wildfire.

Fueled by obtuseness and mental laziness apparently.

Build up the FB page, have its traffic spill over to a blog, sell the blog on Flippa once it hits $500 a month in monthly revenues. Rinse and repeat.

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whateverpedia

8 years ago

OK. I'm going to weigh into this thread for the first, last and only time.

For the last 7 years the NRA and gun manufacturers have been screaming from the rooftops, "Obama is going to take away your guns".

During that 7 year period no-one has had their guns taken away, howeer NRA membership has increased and gun sales have gone through the roof.

Ever get the feeling you've been conned?

That is all, I'm outta here.

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seasoned

8 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

OK. I'm going to weigh into this thread for the first, last and only time.

For the last 7 years the NRA and gun manufacturers have been screaming from the rooftops, "Obama is going to take away your guns".

During that 7 year period no-one has had their guns taken away, howeer NRA membership has increased and gun sales have gone through the roof.

Ever get the feeling you've been conned?

That is all, I'm outta here.

They HAVE taken guns! They have made things HARDER for DECENT people. HECK, I have a gun that can no longer have a part made for it. A lot of states have made things even WORSE. And STILL, they don't seem to care with NON citizens or CRIMINALS!

And SEVERAL politicians have said they WANT to outlaw guns outright. They talk about getting rid of them ALL THE TIME.

Steve

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seasoned

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

A Florida Atlantic University professor is claiming the Sandy Hook massacre was a hoax. He even had the gall to demand proof from the parents of one child killed that day that their child ever lived. He reportedly claimed that: This must be incredibly painful for all the families who lost children or other loved ones on that horrific day - as if this time of year isn't difficult enough for them already.

Some conspiracy theories at least make a little sense. I can't even begin to wrap my brain around this one.

Florida professor to be fired for saying Sandy Hook was a hoax - TODAY.com

University Professor Fired Over Comments About Sandy Hook

It may not have fully been a hoax, but with people willing tomagnify the effect by extra coverage, and cherry picking, and using it to tell half truths for their agendas, it might as well have been. Maybe you should go after THEM!

HEY, remember that guy that was supposedly rich with a father in the movie business? He figured he was an "alpha male", beautiful, and that he was ENTITLED to have sex with ANY female he wanted. Of course THEY saw things differently! He ended up killing the first victims with a knife, and I believe he ran over others but the second he used a gun, it was a GIVEN that he would get free press because he "fit the agenda". http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...icle-1.1804354

HECK, OTHERS tell half truths, because stories "fit the agenda", even though NO gun was used... And nobody EVER seems to indicate how they tend to be places like post 2000 military bases. colleges, theaters, schools, or special cities (like detroit or chicago), which are GUN FREE ZONES. NAZI germany was also, as was that political retreat that got shot up, etc.... And don't forget what happens when governments succeed in this,

Steve

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sbucciarel

Banned 8 years ago

... flaky as pie crust. lol. Wackos coming out of the woodwork.

Breaking News: Fictitious judge awards fictional Sandy Hook parents $1.5M in fictitious money from fictitious Adam Lanza's fictitious mother's fictitious estate in fictitious lawsuit for death of fictitious children.

Families of Newtown school massacre victims split $1.5million from estate of Adam Lanza's mother who failed to secure her rifle

Thanks

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Professor Claims Sandy Hook Massacre was a Hoax

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Been a while! Any of you Old Timers here?

How much does the rebranding affect CR ?

Are billboards still effective in driving customers?

Boat and Jet Ski Rentals...... Door Hangers Effective?

Clickbank low cost recurring