Would you buy an Autonomous Vehicle?

10 years ago

Reasons to consider an AV purchase:

Lower operating cost.

Lower drive times even at slightly slower speeds.

Safer... Way safer.

Fewer accidents.

Lower number of fatalities.

Ability to connect to the Internet of Things.

Some other thoughts about Interconnected Vehicles:

Some municipalities may require them, as in not allow conventional vehicles.

There may be reduced revenues flowing into municipalities with fewer traffic citations.

There may be reduced numbers of DUI's, DWI's, etc.

Reduced numbers of automobiles sold. Will every person or family that has a car now, need a car if they belong to a "vehicle pool"?

Possibly a threat to the Uber / Lyft business model.

Possibly unmanned vehicles as deliveries are made without the need for one of those people-things.

This should get us started.

Joe Mobley

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Kay King

10 years ago

I LOVE the concept - but I'll wait till other people buy them as well.

I used to think there would be a technical breakthrough where cars could be guided by the road itself - hard to explain but I had a vision of how that might work.

What causes accidents? Drivers who lose control - or drive in a risky way - or change speed or hit the break too quickly or....

If all the cars on the highway were going the same speed and drivers only controlled getting on and off the highway or setting the destination coordinates...would be pretty sweet.

However, I think it's much farther into the future than some predict.

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Claude Whitacre 10 years ago

Of course, I would buy one.

But I would wait a few years for the kinks to get worked out, and the prices to settle.

But yeah, that's the future.
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- Joe Mobley 10 years ago
  
  Some other thoughts about Interconnected Vehicles:
  
  Part 2.
  
  Expect infrastructure funding to move from fuel taxes to a miles driven basis as all vehicles are tracked.
  
  Also, expect politicians to continue to defraud the traveling citizen with the above mentioned infrastructure spending.
  
  Expect all autonomous vehicles to have "black boxes" with data collections capabilities that current airlines can only dream about.
  
  There will be HUGE privacy rights issues.
  
  Is the information in that black box mine? Or will I one-click away my rights as part of the terms of service for use of the vehicle?
  
  Possible reduction in the numbers of law suits with the reduced number of accidents and the ability to better determine responsibility.
  
  Hopefully, with a corresponding reduction in the number of attorneys that specialize in personal injury lawsuits.
  
  To be continued...
  
  Joe Mobley
  
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  lanfear63 10 years ago
  
  If one of these vehicles behaved recklessly in Germany, would it get an Autobahn?
  
  Until everyone uses one I don't think It would be wise, unless the technology gets a lot more sophisticated and it has a drive like an asshole feature.
  
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  Frank Donovan 10 years ago
  
  Much of the flying of a commercial airliner is now carried out automatically, and has no doubt contributed to the impressive safety record of most airlines. Yet I would still feel uneasy boarding a plane if I knew there was no pilot on board.
  
  I get the same uneasiness with driverless cars. The statistics might well prove my reservations to be unfounded, but without a human driver, there's nobody with "skin in the game". [Joe, you'll recognize that Talebism. ]
  
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Kurt

10 years ago

As an ex cab driver, I'll trust the tech more than human drivers. Plus, I dealt with more than enough drunken pinheads...It's my turn to let someone (something) else do the driving.

Self driving cars will change the auto insurance industry. They will also greatly reduce accidents which destroy lives, limbs and property. It will also eliminate (or greatly reduce) DUIs and the burden they put on the legal system.

Because they can communicate with each other and "control" system, and react much faster, they will reduce traffic congestion issues.

There's also a possibility that self driving cars will greatly reduce the land needed that's dedicated to cars, like garages, parking lots, etc. Instead of having to own a car, you just use an app to have a car come pick you up, either "on call" or by setting an appointment.

Your car comes and picks you up, takes you to the grocery store and drops you off. Instead of needing to park in a spot, which requires room on each side for you to get it, it gets into a single line queue where the first car in line picks up then next shopper that comes out of the store. This would save a lot of room needed for parking lots.

Because of the ability to "draft" behind other automated cars due to much faster reaction time, wind draft will be reduced, giving the car better mileage regardless of the fuel used.

BTW, Uber is investing a lot of money in self driving cars.

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Frank Donovan

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

There's also a possibility that self driving cars will greatly reduce the land needed that's dedicated to cars, like garages, parking lots, etc. Instead of having to own a car, you just use an app to have a car come pick you up, either "on call" or by setting an appointment.

Your car comes and picks you up, takes you to the grocery store and drops you off. Instead of needing to park in a spot, which requires room on each side for you to get it, it gets into a single line queue where the first car in line picks up then next shopper that comes out of the store. This would save a lot of room needed for parking lots.

Safety benefits aside, I think this is the biggest issue. The OP asked whether anyone would buy a driverless car, but the whole point is that the self-drive concept, taken to its logical conclusion, does away with the need for ownership. It would be a fundamental change in the way most of us have come to view personal transport, given the relationship many people have with their cars whereby they can be extensions of their personality, status symbols, representations of freedom etc. We're going to need a major cultural shift in attitudes.
.

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Kurt

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

Safety benefits aside, I think this is the biggest issue. The OP asked whether anyone would buy a driverless car, but the whole point is that the self-drive concept, taken to its logical conclusion, does away with the need for ownership. It would be a fundamental change in the way most of us have come to view personal transport, given the relationship many people have with their cars whereby they can be extensions of their personality, status symbols, representations of freedom etc. We're going to need a major cultural shift in attitudes.
.

Part of the "relationship" issues can be addressed with different models of self driving cars. I think things like the extra expenses will go a long way to making the shift, although it may take a generation.

In big cities, parking is expensive and a hassle. If you can get a car instantly to the door without having to wait, people may be more quick to make the change.

Another factor that may help by not owning a car will be the ability to use a garage/driveway in other ways.

I think there's a number of issues with public transportation, at least in the US.

It doesn't always run on our schedule.

You have to share it with other people, some aren't the most "savory".

Sometimes you have to wait outside in bad weather.

It isn't door to door.

However, with self driving cars on demand, none of these are issues.

Cabs and Uber are expensive. For cabs, probably 2/3s of the cost to passengers are paid to the drivers, including tips.

It will take some time for people to change, but there are a lot of benefits to changing too. But I think the time will come. There was a lot of people that loved their horses...

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tagiscom

10 years ago

If l had a death wish l would!

Or get so p**** off that l would tear it out!

The thing about this, apart from a dumb computer running it all, is it drives at Grandma, with poor eyesight, and an all nighter, sowing bender!

So, what happens when 4 of these things all stop at a roundabout at the same time? Tech, no one will move!

Well, under normal circumstances, a guy in a ute will think, screw this and floor it!

But 4 dumb computers, will look at each other forever?

This might be good in peak hour, but trusting this thing on a freeway, scary!

If these things become widespread, then road rage will skyrocket. I can see someone reading a paper in a 40 km zone, while a ute driver behind him, is dusting off his rifle!

I love the decreased accident crap, l have been driving for more than 30 years, and had one minor accident. Well, l touched someones bumper bar. The rest someone hit me.

So l wouldn't by this on accident grounds, since l am a safe driver. But if l did get this and it malfunctioned, on a freeway, then death or hospital will replace no accident!

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Kurt

10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

If l had a death wish l would!

Or get so p**** off that l would tear it out!

The thing about this, apart from a dumb computer running it all, is it drives at Grandma, with poor eyesight, and an all nighter, sowing bender!

So, what happens when 4 of these things all stop at a roundabout at the same time? Tech, no one will move!

Well, under normal circumstances, a guy in a ute will think, screw this and floor it!

But 4 dumb computers, will look at each other forever?

This might be good in peak hour, but trusting this thing on a freeway, scary!

If these things become widespread, then road rage will skyrocket. I can see someone reading a paper in a 40 km zone, while a ute driver behind him, is dusting off his rifle!

I love the decreased accident crap, l have been driving for more than 30 years, and had one minor accident. Well, l touched someones bumper bar. The rest someone hit me.

So l wouldn't by this on accident grounds, since l am a safe driver. But if l did get this and it malfunctioned, on a freeway, then death or hospital will replace no accident!

I think you just made my point. As an ex cab driver that spent a great deal of my life driving in traffic, I'll take a dumb computer over a slow, often distracted, drunk, texting, and/or emotional driver any day. Plus, I NEVER had an at fault accident and probably have driven far more miles than you ever will.

BTW, the average human reaction time is .7 seconds. The best athletes in the world may be .25 seconds. A computer can react in milliseconds.

Today's math problem...How far does a car driving at 60 MPH travel in .7 seconds?

At 60 miles an hour, a car travels 88 ft...so:

88 x .7 = 61.6 feet a car will travel before the average human can even hit the brakes and 61.6 feet farther than a self driving car will hit the brakes.. And this is if the person is alert, sober and paying attention.

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

88 x .7 = 61.6 feet a car will travel before the average human can even hit the brakes and 61.6 feet farther than a self driving car will hit the brakes.. And this is if the person is alert, sober and paying attention.

Sure, but what if the driver is driving rampantly with knives?

"Only a Ninja can kill another Ninja." - Circumference Doom.

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Nope. I love driving my truck and nobody, including a computer, is going to do that for me.

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DURABLEOILCOM

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Nope. I love driving my truck and nobody, including a computer, is going to do that for me.

That is exactly how I feel. In today's world we are tracked and controlled to the max. Why allow complete control? If government computers can be hacked what is to stop hackers and criminals from hijacking your vehicle and putting your family and friends in harm.

I enjoy driving it is pure adrenaline to rev my engine and control my destination, speed, and safety. My truck is my modern day horse I will not let a computer take that away from me.

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

I think you just made my point. As an ex cab driver that spent a great deal of my life driving in traffic, I'll take a dumb computer over a slow, often distracted, drunk, texting, and/or emotional driver any day. Plus, I NEVER had an at fault accident and probably have driven far more miles than you ever will.

BTW, the average human reaction time is .7 seconds. The best athletes in the world may be .25 seconds. A computer can react in milliseconds.

Today's math problem...How far does a car driving at 60 MPH travel in .7 seconds?

At 60 miles an hour, a car travels 88 ft...so:

88 x .7 = 61.6 feet a car will travel before the average human can even hit the brakes and 61.6 feet farther than a self driving car will hit the brakes.. And this is if the person is alert, sober and paying attention.

Ok, fair enough, but bottom line is it is a machine, (or a computer) and machines, especially a computer in the engine area, can malfunction!

The computer in my Nissan, started seizing up, after more than 10 years, (the cooling fans, ran excessively).

So, lets say 100,000 of these are sold, and in ten years when most are sold, again, probably to someone with little money, it is inevitable that any country who adopts them will have serious issues at that time!

If we force drunk drivers to adopt them, then good, but what happens when a relatively safe motorist buys this and the chip has a fault.

And his entire family are thrown across a freeway?

I know that it looks good in Sci Fi movies, but in real life, l would say it is a timebomb, (give it 10 years to go off).

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Sure, but what if the driver is driving rampantly with knives?

"Only a Ninja can kill another Ninja." - Circumference Doom.

Gee, 6 days into the new year, and you are already derailing a thread!

At least a Martian Porcupine wasn't driving?

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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by DURABLEOILCOM

I enjoy driving it is pure adrenaline to rev my engine and control my destination, speed, and safety. My truck is my modern day horse I will not let a computer take that away from me.

Show me a person that enjoys driving in a major metropolitan area and I'll show you a motorized masochist.

Driving my Bimmer is one of the greatest joys of my life, yet I won't take it anywhere near a large city. I value my car and my sanity too much for that.

Cheers. - Frank

P.S. You have absolutely no control of your safety unless you are the only person on the road and even then, with inattentive driving (which I'm sure you never, ever do) you could wind up in a ditch.

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Show me a person that enjoys driving in a major metropolitan area and I'll show you a motorized masochist.

Driving my Bimmer is one of the greatest joys of my life, yet I won't take it anywhere near a large city. I value my car and my sanity too much for that.

Cheers. - Frank

P.S. You have absolutely no control of your safety unless you are the only person on the road and even then, with inattentive driving (which I'm sure you never, ever do) you could wind up in a ditch.

But riding around in an autonomous car in the big city wouldn't be any more enjoyable to me than driving it myself. I stay away from city driving when I can, but there's times when that isn't possible.

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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

But riding around in an autonomous car in the big city wouldn't be any more enjoyable to me than driving it myself.

Honestly, Suzanne, I don't think you've thought that through. You could be doing so many other things while being driven, safely and without aggravation to your destination.

I stay away from city driving when I can, but there's times when that isn't possible.

Same here, that's why I'd love to drive my car to a lot at the city limits, park it and be picked-up by a vehicle that would drive me to my inner-city destination, while I get caught-up on my porn. Presently, I have to drive to a lot near public transportation, which is almost worse than driving my car in the city.

I've lived and owned a car in Manhattan, Philadelphia, Ft. Lauderdale and Tampa. I didn't enjoy a single minute of driving in any of those cities.

I doubt that anyone else enjoys it either, unless as I said, they are some form of masochist.

Cheers. - Frank

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Honestly, Suzanne, I don't think you've thought that through. You could be doing so many other things while being driven, safely and without aggravation to your destination.
Same here, that's why I'd love to drive my car to a lot at the city limits, park it and be picked-up by a vehicle that would drive me to my inner-city destination, while I get caught-up on my porn.

Ok ... Sure. I would love to stop at the city limits and get into a human powered limo and be driven anywhere I need to go. I do not want to sit in a driverless car regardless of all the "safety" statistics people want to throw around. I can't wait to see the chaos the first time some little hacker learns to hack the computer driving those things.

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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I can't wait to see the chaos the first time some little hacker learns to hack the computer driving those things.

I am not the least bit concerned about that. This issue will be totally resolved before any significant number of these vehicles are employed. Guaranteed.

Don't be a Luddite. :-)

Cheers. - Frank

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

I am not the least bit concerned about that. This issue will be totally resolved before any significant number of these vehicles are employed. Guaranteed.

Don't be a Luddite. :-)

Cheers. - Frank

lol ... actually, I am a semi-luddite. I still don't have a iPod. Besides, some limo drivers are interesting in their own rite. Hot looking limo drivers only need apply.

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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

lol ... actually, I am a semi-luddite. I still don't have a iPod.

I have one, but I haven't seen it in around 5 years. I still don't have an iPad. :-)

Besides, some limo drivers are interesting in their own rite. Hot looking limo drivers only need apply.

Land barges should be banned from civilization. A total pox on the planet. They're great for the ego, but nothing else.

Yes, I'm a committed, liberal-loon, tree-hugging communist. Deal with it. lol

Cheers. - Frank

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Ok ... Sure. I would love to stop at the city limits and get into a human powered limo and be driven anywhere I need to go. I do not want to sit in a driverless car regardless of all the "safety" statistics people want to throw around. I can't wait to see the chaos the first time some little hacker learns to hack the computer driving those things.

Yes, l didn't want to mention that, since it is up in the air as to how bad it will be?

But just like hackers can use an iwatch, or its touchscreen movements with the jogging app, to hack into sensitive stuff, they will find a way into this.

Something that can make a buck, usually isn't tested to death. Why should it, just like the bank app for smartphones in AU, is hacked time and time again, the banks can just keep saying it is safe, and stupid consumers, who want the latest will buy it!

After enough people get their savings taken out, because they used their fancy new product in the wrong place, the banks will make it safer, (this has happened).

As for metropolitan driving, l agree at least in Melbourne the one way streets are a nightmare, but also agree that if this thing is driving and is slow to respond, then at peak times will probably be racking up driving red light fines?

At right hand turn, peak hour times, the traffic sometimes banks up so much, you try to turn on green and get stuck, then get clobbered.

And if the head of police traffic is an a***h*** which the present one is, then all pleas to fix this cheap, buck situation will fall on death ears!

But think of the bright side, and least a robot in the front seat will give some a chance to shoot up?

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Princess Balestra

10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

I am not the least bit concerned about that. This issue will be totally resolved before any significant number of these vehicles are employed. Guaranteed.

Don't be a Luddite. :-)

Cheers. - Frank

Good on ya, Frank.

Whole lotta new versions of old arguments goin' on here.

When we got trains an' cars, people envisaged mass suffocation, an' FFS even I figured the frickin' millennium bug was hogwash.

These cars are comin', is all.

So we gotta fix 'em as good as we can - 'an I figure a vehicle-as-a-service is viable (that what you kinda hinted at, Franky D?)

Won't stop Sooz or Durable roarin' around the place like Top Gear aficionados, or identify where anyone is if we don't want that.

Kurt, gotta say your insider POV is neatly reasoned.

As for me, I always figured on a sedan chair borne by a hunko quartet, but they ain't too speedy.

Mebbe now I should hold out hope for an automated sedan chair, kinda like a stretch limo, with plentya room inside for a chaise long an' a buncha hunks to feed me grapes.

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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Yes, l didn't want to mention that, since it is up in the air as to how bad it will be?

Who's to say it will be bad, other than the fear mongers? lol

But just like hackers can use an iwatch, or its touchscreen movements with the jogging app, to hack into sensitive stuff, they will find a way into this.

Totally delusional.

Something that can make a buck, usually isn't tested to death. Why should it, just like the bank app for smartphones in AU, is hacked time and time again, the banks can just keep saying it is safe, and stupid consumers, who want the latest will buy it!

After enough people get their savings taken out, because they used their fancy new product in the wrong place, the banks will make it safer, (this has happened).

Obviously, they don't consider it a major issue, yet. As you stated, when they do, they'll fix it.

As for metropolitan driving, l agree at least in Melbourne the one way streets are a nightmare, but also agree that if this thing is driving and is slow to respond, then at peak times will probably be racking up driving red light fines?

At right hand turn, peak hour times, the traffic sometimes banks up so much, you try to turn on green and get stuck, then get clobbered.

And if the head of police traffic is an a***h*** which the present one is, then all pleas to fix this cheap, buck situation will fall on death ears!

But think of the bright side, and least a robot in the front seat will give some a chance to shoot up?

If you're going to write science fiction, take a course and get good at it.

How do you folks make it through life on a daily basis, wracked with fear about what's around every corner?

I'm glad you weren't around when the invented the wheel.

Cheers. - Frank

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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

But think of the bright side, and least a robot in the front seat will give some a chance to shoot up?

Well, at least you ended on a high note. Always the optimist. lol

Cheers. - Frank

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Kurt

10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Well, at least you ended on a high note. Always the optimist. lol

Cheers. - Frank

And speaking of "high note"...Frank and I will be kicked back, blowing smoke rings from the sour diesel blunt we're sharing, while you selfie drivers will need to heed the advice Jim Morrison used to sing, "Keep your eyes on the road and your hands up on the wheel".

Also, I can't think of a better way to travel than having a self driving RV or custom van. It can drive 24 hours a day while I kick back and enjoy the scenery, eat, sleep, etc. And when I arrive, I'll be fresh and ready to go...just call me Mr. Daisy.

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Princess Balestra

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

And speaking of "high note"...Frank and I will be kicked back, blowing smoke rings from the sour diesel blunt we're sharing, while you selfie drivers will need to heed the advice Jim Morrison used to sing, "Keep your eyes on the road and your hands up on the wheel".

Also, I can't think of a better way to travel than having a self driving RV or custom van. It can drive 24 hours a day while I kick back and enjoy the scenery, eat, sleep, etc. And when I arrive, I'll be fresh and ready to go...just call me Mr. Daisy.

It is so weird.

What is on offer here is a chauffeur driven vehicle — which is kinda a rich man's luxury.

Better still: no irritatin' chauffeur to peek in on your backseat secrets.

That's a frickin' steal, an' I want in on writin' the copy.

Thing I love about trains is, I can gaze outta the window an' write.

Autocars would transform stuff, free up time, generate new experience.

Jus' gotta make sure the tech works, an' I wouldn't know about that.

Main thing is, all cars are already mostly automated, an' we don't question that the wheels won't turn or the braks function or whatever.

But, yeah, lotsa variables to figure, like — whao! STRAY MOOSE!

You run into a stray moose an' you gotta make a snap decision.

In the ditch? Into the wall? Into the moose? Brake an' stop in time?

That takes a whole lotta snap processin' power.

I figure we could fix up the cars to run well when things are goin' smooth, but I guess it all depends on the random moose scenario an' how well the cars can 'perceive' the world.

Other objection is the privacy/trackin' thing, but that is not autocar specific, an' ain't a real reason to object to the cars.

That's a wider issue gonna get fixed in tandem with evrythin' else.

Travellin' in autocars gonna be the swanky noo Me Time.

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Kurt

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Princess Balestra

It is so weird.

What is on offer here is a chauffeur driven vehicle — which is kinda a rich man's luxury.

Better still: no irritatin' chauffeur to peek in on your backseat secrets.

That's a frickin' steal, an' I want in on writin' the copy.

Thing I love about trains is, I can gaze outta the window an' write.

Autocars would transform stuff, free up time, generate new experience.

Jus' gotta make sure the tech works, an' I wouldn't know about that.

Lotsa variables to figure, like — whao! STRAY MOOSE!

You run into a stray moose an' you gotta make a snap decision.

In the ditch? Into the wall? Into the moose? Brake an' stop in time?

That takes a whole lotta snap processin' power.

I figure we could fix up the cars to run well when things are goin' smooth, but I guess it all depends on the random moose scenario an' how well the cars can 'perceive' the world.

Other objection is the privacy/trackin' thing, but that is not autocar specific, an' ain't a real reason to object to the cars.

That's a wider issue gonna get fixed in tandem with evrythin' else.

Travellin' in autocars gonna be the swanky noo Me Time.

Actually, most people don't know what to do with a moose, or deer for that matter. Lots of people get killed in accidents in the US due to deer and making a mistake.

First, the computer will react instantly, instead of taking .7 seconds to react. As I pointed out above, at 60 MPH the self driving car will stop about 61 ft sooner than a human. The computer will brake much quicker, giving it a much better chance of stopping before the vehicle hits the moose/deer.

Next, the best course of action with a moose/deer is to keep straight and hit it. It's human instinct to try to avoid the deer, but people get killed swerving to miss deer. Even if a human driver knows the correct decision, they may panic in a real situation. The computer will have the correct decision programmed in. More dead deer. Fewer dead people.

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Princess Balestra

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Actually, most people don't know what to do with a moose, or deer for that matter. Lots of people get killed in accidents in the US due to deer and making a mistake.

First, the computer will react instantly, instead of taking .7 seconds to react. As I pointed out above, at 60 MPH the self driving car will stop about 61 ft sooner than a human. The computer will brake much quicker, giving it a much better chance of stopping before the vehicle hits the moose/deer.

Next, the best course of action with a moose/deer is to keep straight and hit it. It's human instinct to try to avoid the deer, but people get killed swerving to miss deer. Even if a human driver knows the correct decision, they may panic in a real situation. The computer will have the correct decision programmed in. More dead deer. Fewer dead people.

I figure we are no the same track here, I jus' dunno how clever automated machines are right now.

I guess it is a trade off between subtlety of hooman perception (if not the speed of it) an' a machine's inability to panic.

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agc

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

,..just call me Mr. Daisy.

Maybe from now on everyone should.

What does Mr Daisy, think about that? lol

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Kay King

10 years ago

I can't think of a better way to travel than having a self driving RV or custom van. It can drive 24 hours a day while I kick back and enjoy the scenery, eat, sleep, etc. And when I arrive, I'll be fresh and ready to go...just call me Mr. Daisy.

I agree completely. For me, fun driving is taking the jeep with the big wheels (and winch) off road and making a mess of it. Since the Jeep is new, I haven't been allowed to do that with this one yet.

License plate says "jeep lyfe" but it's still too clean to call itself a Jeep.

For everything else - I don't like to drive. I love exploring new places - but I dont' love the getting there. I'm not wild about flying or driving - but if my car would just take me there....I'd go all over the place.

I would LIVE in a large camper if it would drive itself around the country.

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bizgrower

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I would LIVE in a large camper if ( my celebrity crush )would drive it around the country.

All fixed.

----

Who purchases and maintains these self-driving cars?
(I've driven business owned and maintained vehicles. Two
different companies. I'd rather not do that again. One company, the drivers
gave up reporting vehicles for maintenance because "they won't fix
it anyway".)

---

I do like to drive in the boonies as a way of relaxing and seeing the mountains, wildlife,
and forests... And camping. I can't see ever giving that up.

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Kurt

10 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

All fixed.

----

Who purchases and maintains these self-driving cars?
(I've driven business owned and maintained vehicles. Two
different companies. I'd rather not do that again. One company, the drivers
gave up reporting vehicles for maintenance because "they won't fix
it anyway".)

---

I do like to drive in the boonies as a way of relaxing and seeing the mountains, wildlife,
and forests... And camping. I can't see ever giving that up.

You will buy/lease it yourself or rent it, just like we do now.

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agc

10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Show me a person that enjoys driving in a major metropolitan area and I'll show you a motorized masochist.

Agreed.

Driving my Bimmer is one of the greatest joys of my life, yet I won't take it anywhere near a large city. I value my car and my sanity too much for that.

Agreed (well except I live in the big city, but I commute by train).

P.S. You have absolutely no control of your safety unless you are the only person on the road and even then, with inattentive driving (which I'm sure you never, ever do) you could wind up in a ditch.

But I disagree on the control. You have near absolute control of your safety. If you are aware of what's going on around you, most of the "someone hit me" crap telegraphs itself, and most of it can be prevented or mitigated. And most incidents are minor. Dents and scrapes.

Of course, not all.

And true, it does require some brights and some commitment, so perhaps those below the median have no control.

Go, Darwin! Maybe??

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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by agc

But I disagree on the control. You have near absolute control of your safety. If you are aware of what's going on around you, most of the "someone hit me" crap telegraphs itself, and most of it can be prevented or mitigated. And most incidents are minor. Dents and scrapes.

The world's graveyards are littered with the bodies of folks that subscribed to that sentiment.

Of course, not all.

That's for sure.

And true, it does require some brights and some commitment, so perhaps those below the median have no control.

Go, Darwin! Maybe??

Intellect has nothing to do with it. That's why they're called accidents. Your IQ does NOT lessen your chances of being killed in a car.

Cheers. - Frank

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agc 10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Your IQ does NOT lessen your chances of being killed in a car.
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ThomM

10 years ago

First I enjoy driving. Either in my 30 year old Jeep Cherokee or on my 10 year old Road Star. So the thought of a self driving vehicle doesn't interest me in the least.

Originally Posted by agc

But I disagree on the control. You have near absolute control of your safety. If you are aware of what's going on around you, most of the "someone hit me" crap telegraphs itself, and most of it can be prevented or mitigated. And most incidents are minor. Dents and scrapes.

Of course, not all.

And true, it does require some brights and some commitment, so perhaps those below the median have no control.

Go, Darwin! Maybe??

The operative word there is "near".
As for the rest, even though I'm very aware of my surroundings especially when on my bike I know that sometimes sh#t happens and sometimes you end up right in the middle of it.

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Joe Mobley 10 years ago

Some other thoughts about Interconnected Vehicles:

Part 3.

Reduced or eliminated high-speed chases. Getaway cars. Etc.

Don't be surprised if law-enforcement officials want the ability to take control of (as in disable or reroute) vehicles... Of course in the name of public safety and improving law enforcement.

That smart-watch that the bicyclist is wearing could "talk" to the InterWeb-of-Autonomous-Vehicles thus reducing accidents, improving traffic flow, etc.

Same for pedestrians.

And Clause's golf cart.

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DJL

10 years ago

My biggest concern would be the opportunity for malicious interference into the operation of the software.
I can practically hear our rulers salivating over the prospect of a driverless, cashless, completely controllable populace.
The prospect makes the worst nightmares of George Orwell pale in comparison.

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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by DJL

My biggest concern would be the opportunity for malicious interference into the operation of the software.
I can practically hear our rulers salivating over the prospect of a driverless, cashless, completely controllable populace.
The prospect makes the worst nightmares of George Orwell pale in comparison.

One word. Prozac.

Cheers. - Frank

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DJL 10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

One word. Prozac.

Cheers. - Frank

Thank you, Your Fordship!
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  Originally Posted by DJL
  
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mohsin qureshi

10 years ago

Of course, I would buy one.

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HeySal

10 years ago

Nope - don't want anything to do with them. The day they tell me my rig can get up Peterson Mt. without me having to do anything but sit, maybe......just maybe I'll change my mind. For my money, though - these are for people who never drive off of pavement. After the drive I took over Donner Pass on NY eve, I would say that some people should be actually sentenced to driving one.

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agc

10 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Nope - don't want anything to do with them. The day they tell me my rig can get up Peterson Mt. without me having to do anything but sit, maybe......just maybe I'll change my mind. For my money, though - these are for people who never drive off of pavement. After the drive I took over Donner Pass on NY eve, I would say that some people should be actually sentenced to driving one.

Of course, you've pretty much summed up politics in America

For me? Hell no! No restrictions, I know what's best.
For you? Full restriction, I don't trust you for 30 seconds.

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HeySal

10 years ago

Originally Posted by agc

Of course, you've pretty much summed up politics in America

For me? Hell no! No restrictions, I know what's best.
For you? Full restriction, I don't trust you for 30 seconds.

Sorry - but when people are running other cars off the road and very nearly causing pile ups - they need to be restricted. You can have your rights..........but one of them is not to needlessly jeopardize my life because you take too many pharms to think or act with any precision behind the wheel of a car.

I do not tolerate people driving up my a** when there's ice on the road. That kind of stupidity I do not find to be human level and that person needs monitoring of some sort because they are a very real danger. For instance - the drooler that caused a 20 car pile up because they thought it was a good idea to drive at 65 on ice this Christmas.

How bout the guy on a 7,200 ft pass that was driving down the middle of 2 lanes of a 3 lane highway on NY eve -- stopped twice in the middle of that road sending drivers off the road (in spots which would have been fatal - they got lucky) - then weaved over into lanes several times? In my life I've never called the cops on a driver - but I reported that one. It infuriated me he was behind the wheel at all let alone during snow at altitudes.

I'm not talking about everyday drivers here -- I'm talking about that kind of idiot. There may be no law against extreme stupidity, but there are a few about jeopardizing the safety and lives of other people.

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Well, at least you ended on a high note. Always the optimist. lol

Cheers. - Frank

Just stating an ugly truth!

Least l didn't say "wait til, you are scraping a family off the freeway, because they trusted a machine and all went to sleep", then the robot, had a fit because it thought that a shiny road was a lake, because a truck lost its, hair spray load earlier?

Similar thing happened with a Russian supercomputer and almost started world war three!

Well, hair spray wasn't involved!

Originally Posted by HeySal

Sorry - but when people are running other cars off the road and very nearly causing pile ups - they need to be restricted. You can have your rights..........but one of them is not to needlessly jeopardize my life because you take too many pharms to think or act with any precision behind the wheel of a car.

I do not tolerate people driving up my a** when there's ice on the road. That kind of stupidity I do not find to be human level and that person needs monitoring of some sort because they are a very real danger. For instance - the drooler that caused a 20 car pile up because they thought it was a good idea to drive at 65 on ice this Christmas.

I'm not talking about everyday drivers here -- I'm talking about that kind of idiot. There may be no law against extreme stupidity, but there are a few about jeopardizing the safety and lives of other people.

Yes, we have those A***h*** in AU, as well, most tailgate and turn?

I suppose they have to drive aggressively, in order to get home to a mindless rerun of Law and Order?

And for the record, a hacker did get into a car, through the cars computer or monitor display, but they fixed that, or tried to....

Driveless, cars, probably a hackers Lolly, time will tell how big!

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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Just stating an ugly truth!

I think the word you are grasping for is, 'belief.'

Least l didn't say "wait til, you are scraping a family off the freeway, because they trusted a machine and all went to sleep", then the robot, had a fit because it thought that a shiny road was a lake, because a truck lost its, hair spray load earlier?

More incredibly bad science fiction writing. Check out Udemy! :-)

Similar thing happened with a Russian supercomputer and almost started world war three!

You left out the Martian involvement, or perhaps it was poltergeists or ghosts..

Well, hair spray wasn't involved!

Surprise, surprise! Whodathunkit?

And for the record, a hacker did get into a car, through the cars computer or monitor display, but they fixed that, or tried to....

Driveless, cars, probably a hackers Lolly, time will tell how big!

And it will happen again, before this matter is eradicated, but it will be solved.

I'm very sorry to inform you that no matter what you believe, or how hard you try to sell your doomsday scenarios, the future will still arrive, bringing with it the advances in society that will be necessary for the world to keep propelling itself forward.

To think otherwise renders anything you say meaningless. Your feeling about things and what you believe are confined to your world and have absolutely nothing to do with reality and progress.

Sorry to have to break that to you as I know how insignificant that realization can make one feel. :-) You can either buy a ticket and come along for the ride or be left standing at the station while the world and everything in it simply passes you by.

I'd love to stand on the platform and chat, but it looks like my train to the future has arrived. See ya!

Cheer. - Frank

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Princess Balestra

10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

I'm very sorry to inform you that no matter what you believe, or how hard you try to sell your doomsday scenarios, the future will still arrive, bringing with it the advances in society that will be necessary for the world to keep propelling itself forward.

(boop de doop de doop...)

I'd love to stand on the platform and chat, but it looks like my train to the future has arrived. See ya!

Cheer. - Frank

K, my poms are out forya, Big Frank.

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Kay King

10 years ago

When the EMP hits - won't really matter if we are driving our car or it's driving us, will it?

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Princess Balestra

It is so weird.

What is on offer here is a chauffeur driven vehicle -- which is kinda a rich man's luxury.

Better still: no irritatin' chauffeur to peek in on your backseat secrets.

That's a frickin' steal, an' I want in on writin' the copy.

Thing I love about trains is, I can gaze outta the window an' write.

Autocars would transform stuff, free up time, generate new experience.

Jus' gotta make sure the tech works, an' I wouldn't know about that.

Main thing is, all cars are already mostly automated, an' we don't question that the wheels won't turn or the braks function or whatever.

But, yeah, lotsa variables to figure, like -- whao! STRAY MOOSE!

You run into a stray moose an' you gotta make a snap decision.

In the ditch? Into the wall? Into the moose? Brake an' stop in time?

That takes a whole lotta snap processin' power.

I figure we could fix up the cars to run well when things are goin' smooth, but I guess it all depends on the random moose scenario an' how well the cars can 'perceive' the world.

Other objection is the privacy/trackin' thing, but that is not autocar specific, an' ain't a real reason to object to the cars.

That's a wider issue gonna get fixed in tandem with evrythin' else.

Travellin' in autocars gonna be the swanky noo Me Time.

It will slow down, (probably stop on a freeway, and if it is smoggy, then we only need a lorry, without this crap, and that is that! The moose might survive though?

Originally Posted by Kurt

Actually, most people don't know what to do with a moose, or deer for that matter. Lots of people get killed in accidents in the US due to deer and making a mistake.

First, the computer will react instantly, instead of taking .7 seconds to react. As I pointed out above, at 60 MPH the self driving car will stop about 61 ft sooner than a human. The computer will brake much quicker, giving it a much better chance of stopping before the vehicle hits the moose/deer.

Next, the best course of action with a moose/deer is to keep straight and hit it. It's human instinct to try to avoid the deer, but people get killed swerving to miss deer. Even if a human driver knows the correct decision, they may panic in a real situation. The computer will have the correct decision programmed in. More dead deer. Fewer dead people.

Yes, l was readling about it today, it will have as much processing power as 1000 Mac Airs, (or something like that). So it can stop much faster than we can, and get rammed if weather conditions are against it?

Originally Posted by BigFrank

I think the word you are grasping for is, 'belief.'
More incredibly bad science fiction writing. Check out Udemy! :-)
You left out the Martian involvement, or perhaps it was poltergeists or ghosts..
Surprise, surprise! Whodathunkit?
And it will happen again, before this matter is eradicated, but it will be solved.

I'm very sorry to inform you that no matter what you believe, or how hard you try to sell your doomsday scenarios, the future will still arrive, bringing with it the advances in society that will be necessary for the world to keep propelling itself forward.

To think otherwise renders anything you say meaningless. Your feeling about things and what you believe are confined to your world and have absolutely nothing to do with reality and progress.

Sorry to have to break that to you as I know how insignificant that realization can make one feel. :-) You can either buy a ticket and come along for the ride or be left standing at the station while the world and everything in it simply passes you by.

I'd love to stand on the platform and chat, but it looks like my train to the future has arrived. See ya!

Cheer. - Frank

Meaninless, eh, well l couldn't find the russian one, but to my horror the US also almost stuffed up!

And these are the most secure and reliable computers on the planet!!!!!

The Computer Simulation That Almost Started World War III

So, if you think that machines, are wonderful, fair enough, but it is your risk!

I am not going to risk my life, so l can get a kick out of simulating "I Robot, driverless, freeway scene"!

And l love new tech, as well, but not if it can potentially endanger my life, (l would love to get an smart watch, but the health risks are too great).

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Kurt

10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

It will slow down, (probably stop on a freeway, and if it is smoggy, then we only need a lorry, without this crap, and that is that! The moose might survive though?

Yes, l was readling about it today, it will have as much processing power as 1000 Mac Airs, (or something like that). So it can stop much faster than we can, and get rammed if weather conditions are against it?

Or, if weather and/or visibility is bad, it will pull over and stop, which humans don't always do. If it stops, it tells the cars behind it that it has stopped, so they can slow down or stop. After all, if a self driving car can't see what's ahead, neither can a person.

It can also receive weather data in advance of where it's going and make adjustments if necessary.

BTW, there's already a number of car models available with automatic emergency braking.

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Or, if weather and/or visibility is bad, it will pull over and stop, which humans don't always do. If it stops, it tells the cars behind it that it has stopped, so they can slow down or stop. After all, if a self driving car can't see what's ahead, neither can a person.

It can also receive weather data in advance of where it's going and make adjustments if necessary.

BTW, there's already a number of car models available with automatic emergency braking.

Pulls of the road, ok, fair enough, but the human might risk it, turn it off, and keep going?

Tells other cars, also a good idea, but only if all the other cars behind it have this? Fog car pileups would be a thing of the past if this was used on autonomous car roads only?

Yes, emergency braking, the court is still out on that one?

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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Meaninless, eh, well l couldn't find the russian one, but to my horror the US also almost stuffed up!

I almost became a priest.

So, if you think that machines, are wonderful, fair enough, but it is your risk!

A risk I am willing to take, without any fear, whatsoever. I can't let the fear of the unknown rule how I live my life. Might as well be a caveman hiding from a mastodon. No thanks.

I am not going to risk my life, so l can get a kick out of simulating "I Robot, driverless, freeway scene"!

Being able to tell reality from fiction is a prerequisite for human survival.

And l love new tech, as well, but not if it can potentially endanger my life, (l would love to get an smart watch, but the health risks are too great).
Scrap the smart watch. Work on developing a smart brain, although that could endanger the way you currently view the world around you.

What's the basis for living in so much irrational fear? I just don't get it. lol

Cheers. - Frank

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

I almost became a priest.

Cheers. - Frank

And when the church found out why, they called the police.

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Being able to tell reality from fiction is a prerequisite for human survival.
Cheers. - Frank

Frank; Let's be fair. Shane is living proof that this just isn't so.

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Princess Balestra

10 years ago

I thought the church were the frickin' police.

Tellya, secularism is such a drag.

Also: crapper headgear.

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Re: Would you buy an Autonomous Vehicle?

I've given this some thought. I would not buy an anonymous vehicle. Every car I've ever had...had a name. Why would I want some stranger driving me around?

It's better to stick with the car you know.

Sometimes, I think I'm the only sane person here.

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lanfear63

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Re: Would you buy an Autonomous Vehicle?

I've given this some thought. I would not buy an anonymous vehicle. Every car I've ever had...had a name. Why would I want some stranger driving me around?

It's better to stick with the car you know.

Sometimes, I think I'm the only sane person here.

"Sometimes, I think I'm the only Shane person here."

Fixed

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

I almost became a priest.
A risk I am willing to take, without any fear, whatsoever.
Being able to tell reality from fiction is a prerequisite for human survival.

So, you could take a nap, while your car is doing 100 km's on its own? Ok, l couldn't!

What's the basis for living in so much irrational fear? I just don't get it. lol

Cheers. - Frank

Staying alive?

Don't post the video!

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

And when the church found out why, they called the police.

Frank; Let's be fair. Shane is living proof that this just isn't so.

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BigFrank Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

When the EMP hits - won't really matter if we are driving our car or it's driving us, will it?

Unless Ebola gets you first. :-)

Cheers. - Frank
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BigFrank Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Princess Balestra

K, my poms are out forya, Big Frank.

Careful. Thems have a whole different meaning where I come from. lol

Cheers. - Frank
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agc

10 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

How bout the guy on a 7,200 ft pass that was driving down the middle of 2 lanes of a 3 lane highway on NY eve -- stopped twice in the middle of that road sending drivers off the road (in spots which would have been fatal - they got lucky) - then weaved over into lanes several times? In my life I've never called the cops on a driver - but I reported that one. It infuriated me he was behind the wheel at all let alone during snow at altitudes.

I hope you have dash cam footage to assist the DA in their prosecution.

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HeySal

10 years ago

Originally Posted by agc

I hope you have dash cam footage to assist the DA in their prosecution.

Seriously - don't think I'd need it. He messed with 2 lanes of traffic for about 15 miles. Several times he got so wild that all three lanes were stopped and off the road. There were enough cars almost wrecked and run off the road several times so I'm sure I wasn't the only one on the phone.

I have driven in 8 European countries, drove commercially in some of the countries highest mountain areas. I've driven 35 states and parts of Canada - and I have never seen drivers as incompetent as they are out here. The guy that wrecked my rig passed me on the left going around 85 mph while I was turning left. On his cell phone and "didn't think you were really going to turn". WTF? No, I just turn my blinker on at roads that I slowed down to find for the fun of it, dude. I've avoided several wrecks and spend a lot of time pulling over because I can't get the dipstick behind me to back off. It's sheer cattle stupid to tailgate someone when you're driving on ice.

You can be as snide as you want - but if you can't drive a vehicle with a little bit of sharps, you shouldn't drive it. People are getting slaughtered out here and it's not drunks that are causing accidents. It's people that don't use the common sense God gave a cow behind the wheel. You text while driving........you don't deserve a license.

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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

You text while driving........you don't deserve a license.

First offense - one year in jail. Second offense - no license for life.

Honk if you love Jesus. Text, if you want to meet him.

Cheers. - Frank

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

First offense - one year in jail. Second offense - no license for life.

Honk if you love Jesus. Text, if you want to meet him.

Cheers. - Frank

That should be a bumper sticker.

I think, "Kurt is a big dumb jerk that makes fun of Claude Whitacre, and isn't very nice. And I hope this is his car, because if you are still reading this, you are bound to run into it...you big dummy!" should also be a bumper sticker.

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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

That should be a bumper sticker.

It is. lol

Cheers. - Frank

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Dan Riffle

10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

It is. lol

Cheers. - Frank

Never underestimate Claude's ability to overestimate himself.

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Never underestimate Claude's ability to overestimate himself.

I know about 1,000 people that underestimate me. I overestimate myself enough to balance out the entire "Accumulated Underestimation of Claude Factor Vector".

Balance has been restored.

Do you know who always overestimates my ability? New Clients.

Do you know who consistently underestimates my ability? Former Clients, who have seen what I deliver.

Apparently, people pay me money...for the right to estimate me. It's the only value I can see that they are getting.

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Dan Riffle 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Apparently, people pay me money...for the right to estimate me. It's the only value I can see that they are getting.

You have never spoken truer words.
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- Claude Whitacre 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle
  
  You have never spoken truer words.
  
  Actually, the truest words I ever spoke were when you called me and I said, "Dan Riffle? That name means nothing to me."
  
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  bizgrower 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
  
  Actually, the truest words I ever spoke were when you called me and I said, "Dan Riffle? That name means nothing to me."
  
  You mean that time he called from jail?
  
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  Claude Whitacre 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by bizgrower
  
  You mean that time he called from jail?
  
  I think it was a bath house.....again.
  
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lanfear63

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I know about 1,000 people that underestimate me. I overestimate myself enough to balance out the entire "Accumulated Underestimation of Claude Factor Vector".

Balance has been restored.

Do you know who always overestimates my ability? New Clients.

Do you know who consistently underestimates my ability? Former Clients, who have seen what I deliver.

Apparently, people pay me money...for the right to estimate me. It's the only value I can see that they are getting.

I'm interested in using your services, could you give me an estimate?

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Claude Whitacre 10 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I'm interested in using your services, could you give me an estimate?

I estimate that it will take me five minutes to cash your check, and I estimate it will take you 5 years to find me.
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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Feature request: I want an app that will have all self driving cars automatically kamikaze into Claude's car whenever he's within half a mile...where everyone treats him like a bumper car at the carnival.

I believe that he has already chipped all of the cats in his town, so whenever he turns on all of his vacumn cleaners, they will come running!

As for them meawing, Jingle Bells,...the scientists are still working on that!

Originally Posted by HeySal

Shane - cells are actually addictive. Can't remember the details, but believe it's frequency related - it could also be the subliminal transmissions.All I remember from reading the patent is that it's very purposeful. There's a US registered patent on it - I had it on my other tower but lost it in my hard drive crash. If someone spends the time searching, they can find it. Last time I got the list of mind control patents from Tommy (you might not have been here long enough to know him - Ireland), scientist of some sort with military background). They're under some wild categories and it took him a hella long time to search them all up, so not going to try to do it. But if you have time on your hands, you might want to.

So what happens if someone hacks an automated car? I don't like not having control of something that I can be killed in. One of the reasons airplanes scare me crapless - thousands of feet up and no control.

Tones, probably has something to do with, tones that dig into our subconscious, and make it more susceptible to programming!

Scary thought!

Samsung Gear S Review: More Smartphone than...

I have to admit, there where no popcorn videos, but this is a pretty cool watch.

Well, cool, until you realise, that surfing the net, eventhough novel, and the radio, and the Dick Tracy thing, are all giving your wrist a good dose?

Yes, l agree with the hacker thing, they have hacked into smart watches, and into Jukeboxes on wheels, (modern cars) and other things. So, it is a given that they will find a way into these things?

A hacker being able to smash a bmw driverless car, against a wall, too tempting to pass up!

No, Sal l am fine with airlines, just as long as it is Quantus, never crashed, eventhough it has gotten close?

Been on Virgin and Jetstar, and hopefully won't go on it again?

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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Tones, probably has something to do with, tones that dig into our subconscious, and make it more susceptible to programming!

Scary thought!

If one lives in a constant state of irrational fear.

A hacker being able to smash a bmw driverless car, against a wall, too tempting to pass up!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Cheers. - Frank

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

If one lives in a constant state of irrational fear.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Cheers. - Frank

True, do yourself a favor, go and buy an iwatch, and tell us we are all wrong?

After all there are zero studies showing that Cancer and mobile phones aren't related?

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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

True, do yourself a favor, go and buy an iwatch,

The day that the new model is released, I plan to purchase one.

and tell us we are all wrong?

All? As in you and a few other individuals terrified of their own shadow?

I have absolutely no fear of any harm resulting from wearing an Apple watch. None. It's a laughable, ludicrous concern.

After all there are zero studies showing that Cancer and mobile phones aren't related?

Funny - I don't see the word 'credible' in your statement.

Just sayin' . . . . . . .

Cheers. - Frank

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

The day that the new model is released, I plan to purchase one.
All? As in you and a few other individuals terrified of their own shadow?

I have absolutely no fear of any harm resulting from wearing an Apple watch. None. It's a laughable, ludicrous concern.
Funny - I don't see the word 'credible' in your statement.

Just sayin' . . . . . . .

Cheers. - Frank

Iphones and smart watches do emit a burst of low level, microwave radiation when connecting to the net, or answering or making a call, but if you are fine with that then, fair enough?

And l am not scared of mobile phones, since l rarely use it.

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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Iphones and smart watches do emit a burst of low level, microwave radiation when connecting to the net, or answering or making a call, but if you are fine with that then, fair enough?

More than fine with it. I believe that these small burst of radiation are the first line of defense against cancer cells arising in my body. These pulses of radiation zap the cells and render them harmless and they are then excreted in my urine.

I defy anyone to attempt to prove me wrong.

And l am not scared of mobile phones, since l rarely use it.

It's a proven, scientific fact that a mobile phone is not required to converse with yourself.

Cheers. - Frank

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Seriously - don't think I'd need it. He messed with 2 lanes of traffic for about 15 miles. Several times he got so wild that all three lanes were stopped and off the road. There were enough cars almost wrecked and run off the road several times so I'm sure I wasn't the only one on the phone.

I have driven in 8 European countries, drove commercially in some of the countries highest mountain areas. I've driven 35 states and parts of Canada - and I have never seen drivers as incompetent as they are out here. The guy that wrecked my rig passed me on the left going around 85 mph while I was turning left. On his cell phone and "didn't think you were really going to turn". WTF? No, I just turn my blinker on at roads that I slowed down to find for the fun of it, dude. I've avoided several wrecks and spend a lot of time pulling over because I can't get the dipstick behind me to back off. It's sheer cattle stupid to tailgate someone when you're driving on ice.

You can be as snide as you want - but if you can't drive a vehicle with a little bit of sharps, you shouldn't drive it. People are getting slaughtered out here and it's not drunks that are causing accidents. It's people that don't use the common sense God gave a cow behind the wheel. You text while driving........you don't deserve a license.

Had a guy walk off a cliff recently, becuase he was texting, or looking at his phone.

He was near the cliff, took a shot of himself, got distracted and walked off, and plunged 7 metres and died!

Some people don't deserve to be here!

That is the unseen issue with smart phones and watches, is the screen is bright and distracting, it might even be hypnotic?

Probably another reason l steer clear of them?

Well, the main reason is the silly things are too big?

Well, not the watch, that is just dangerous, with the low level microwave radiation hitting your wrist every time you take or make a call!

Maybe l will throw it in some popcorn and make some calls?

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agc

10 years ago

To me, there is "commuting" which is completely lost time. And then there is everything else.

For the daily commute to work, I would gladly trade 50 minutes napping or reading the paper or playing xbox-personal or making phone calls or whatever for 40 minutes previously spent just hating life. Each way. 1:40 per day of reclaimed productive time is a great trade against 1:20 per day of misery.

For the weekly commute to the "second full time job", I would even more gladly trade the 3h:15m sleeping for the 2h:45 driving.

But for most other things, I prefer to drive the car. Or at least I think I do. Time will tell.

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admin@subashseo.com

10 years ago

Of course, I would buy one.

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Princess Balestra

10 years ago

I was flushin' out on a cheerleadin' ticket.

Poms an' glitz all a-swingo.

Uh oh prolly I am makin' this worse, but I appreciate your futurezest.

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Kurt

10 years ago

Feature request: I want an app that will have all self driving cars automatically kamikaze into Claude's car whenever he's within half a mile...where everyone treats him like a bumper car at the carnival.

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Princess Balestra

10 years ago

I figure we are gonna get virtual reality cars for gamers where the glass plays a 3D Supermariokart kinda deal.

Mebbe with a coast to coast road trip I could get good enough to stop fallin' offa Rainbow Road.

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HeySal

10 years ago

Shane - cells are actually addictive. Can't remember the details, but believe it's frequency related - it could also be the subliminal transmissions.All I remember from reading the patent is that it's very purposeful. There's a US registered patent on it - I had it on my other tower but lost it in my hard drive crash. If someone spends the time searching, they can find it. Last time I got the list of mind control patents from Tommy (you might not have been here long enough to know him - Ireland), scientist of some sort with military background). They're under some wild categories and it took him a hella long time to search them all up, so not going to try to do it. But if you have time on your hands, you might want to.

So what happens if someone hacks an automated car? I don't like not having control of something that I can be killed in. One of the reasons airplanes scare me crapless - thousands of feet up and no control.

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GunnerJacky

10 years ago

I would not buy Autonomous Car because I think it is reliable. You should buy it only where the traffic if very less, unlike China and India, where traffic is touching sky.

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Princess Balestra

10 years ago

Originally Posted by GunnerJacky

I would not buy Autonomous Car because I think it is reliable. You should buy it only where the traffic if very less, unlike China and India, where traffic is touching sky.

Evry stagnatin' thread deserves an inspirational catalyst.

Mebbe one will roll along this weekend...

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BigFrank Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Princess Balestra

Evry stagnatin' thread deserves an inspirational catalyst.

Mebbe one will roll along this weekend...

Are you sayin' that post wasn't it?

Cheers. - Frank
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yukon Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by GunnerJacky

I would not buy Autonomous Car because I think it is reliable.
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agc

10 years ago

Srsly. If traffic touchin the sky doesn't inspire then you must be dead.

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agc

10 years ago

An equally relevant fact is that there are also zero studies saying the chocolate milk and mobile phones aren't related.

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seangrasshopper

10 years ago

I like to drive my car so i am not sure if i would want it doing for me but i guess on long journeys it would be handy, could just sit back and go on youtube. i wouldn't want to go for one of the first version of vehicles i would rather wait for the price to come down and software to improve

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BigFrank

Banned 10 years ago

Post moved from Lotto thread. - BF

Honestly, even though my life was once filled with fear and anger, I still find it hard to ascertain what yours derives from.

Here's what you need to understand. If everyone adopted your view, which you seem to believe they should, we'd all be content with having never advanced between the horse and buggy society. Air flight would never have progressed beyond hot-air balloons and we'd still be throwing our feces out the window into the main thoroughfare. I could list a multitude of similar examples, but I believe they would be lost on you.

Your small-mindedness is typical of those who lack the courage to face the unknown aspects of the future, head-on - hence, you are mired in an inability to share an optimistic vision of a future that will be filled with things that are laughed at today, or not as yet even envisioned.

I am sure that before the role of autonomous cars are firmly entrenched there will will be some horrific incidents, such as those you imagine. Many people could be killed. That's the process by which things improve to as close to perfection as is attainable by mankind. Nothing comes to fruition without some people, places and things paying a price for the promise of what that progress has to offer. It has been that way since the beginning of time and it will never change. No amount of fear will ever, ultimately impede the natural progression of accelerated progress.

How many rockets crashed and burned before we developed an efficient space program? How many horse and buggies were run into before society had to make the decision to relegate them to the back roads of America as the nation clamored for more speed in getting from point A to point B, regardless of the inherent dangers presented by these newfangled contraptions called 'horseless buggies?'

As our problems increase there will be more and more options presented that many will have a chance to display a gnashing of teeth over. As an individual, most of these won't concern you. By the time the entire population of the planet are eating GMO foods because it will be the only way to feed a burgeoning world population, you'll be dead. That fact, however, will not prevent that necessity from becoming reality.

There are dozens of things on the horizon that many fear and if given a choice, would ban from our future. The fact is, many of those things are what will make it possible to have a future. You can yell, fight and stand in the way of progress, but you can't stop it unless you want to stop civilization.

The GMO's are coming, the autonomous cars are coming, the Robocops are coming, 24/7 360º surveillance is coming, unrestricted euthanasia is coming and those are just a few of the things that we consider bad, or in your parlance, 'evil.' Evil they may be, but they will be offset by major advances in longevity, where crime will be reduced to nuisance levels, where anyone on the planet desiring an education will achieve one, where we won't need a VA fitting our bravest for prosthetic limbs because even if there is a war and a soldier loses a limb, will just graft on a new one grown in a laboratory. I could go on and on with this list also, but since you lack what's necessary to envision such things, I'll stop here.

They don't call it a 'brave new world' for no reason. It is the brave, the forward thinkers, the dreamers, those with a 'can do' way of looking at life that will be the hope for mankind. The highway of history is littered with the fearful, the negative voices, the petty and those without the ability to peer into the future to see how they may be able to make things better as opposed to maintaining the status quo which rarely results in anything of value.

Yes, I'm a dreamer. Since my eternal wish of the human race being wiped from the planet has little chance of taking place, I have moved on to Plan B. How, with all of the perilous challenges facing our world can I be instrumental in transitioning our world to its inevitable future? It's not that I don't have any fear about what we face, it's that I refuse to let my fear paralyze me or keep me chained to a limited vision of what mankind and the science it has created and advanced are capable of.

You should just hide under your bridge, comfortably ensconced in your cocoon of fear. The rest of us will do the heavy lifting, as we understand that not everyone is up for the challenge. The least you can do though, since you refuse or are unable to offer anything positive is to simply pipe-down and let the world get on without you.

If you are unable to contribute anything beyond a voice of fear and opposition, please get out of the way so those with hope and vision can get the job done. It's not at all helpful, nor is it something to be proud of, to denigrate that which you simply don't understand or refuse to be a part of.

We get it. You think I'm an evil person. I can live with that as long as I don't have to live like you, fearful of the world I live in and the world that is yet to come. I may not be able to do anything to facilitate that progress, but I don't plan on doing anything to impede it. That's beyond selfish.

Enjoy your day. :-)

Cheers. - Big Frank

P.S. You'll forgive me if I choose not to engage you on this topic, going forward. It would be pointless.

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Post moved from Lotto thread. - BF

Honestly, even though my life was once filled with fear and anger, I still find it hard to ascertain what yours derives from.

Might have something to do with people happily risking their lives for some new tech?

But, l guess that if some want to take that chance then that is up to them?

But saying that others are this and that, because they take all risks on board, instead of blindly accepting the company's slogan,...well, it is pretty obvious how that person looks!

Here's what you need to understand. If everyone adopted your view, which you seem to believe they should, we'd all be content with having never advanced between the horse and buggy society. Air flight would never have progressed beyond hot-air balloons and we'd still be throwing our feces out the window into the main thoroughfare. I could list a multitude of similar examples, but I believe they would be lost on you.

Your small-mindedness is typical of those who lack the courage to face the unknown aspects of the future, head-on - hence, you are mired in an inability to share an optimistic vision of a future that will be filled with things that are laughed at today, or not as yet even envisioned.

Well, l don't get the toilet reference, doesn't seem to be life threatening?

But l get your point, l would like to go to the moon, but might think twice about it with the radiation thing?

I suppose that the iwatch is something that l might use rarely, but all of the time, probably not.

I couldn't live without going to the moon, but could give the watch a miss, since it isn't vitally important. And hands free does dramatically lessen mobile phone cancer issues, so if that could be adapted for the smart watch, then l probably wouldn't hesitate!

It all comes down to inherent risks, the watch radiates a targeted part of the human body, a smart phone, can have hands free, bluetooth, and left or right held options, so the risk is lower!

I think that you are going overboard with the other references.

The Wright Brothers could have gotten a test pilot, (pretty sure they did, so no restriction there)?

And little risk in inventing a light bulb. You might get me on the Sound Barrier, but yet again the scientist were on the ground and a test pilot took all of the risks!

No need for the small mindlessness reference, l could have gone on with the Teslar circuit, but since you are a long time member, as l am, and the conversation wasn't open and balanced, l thought that it was in our best interests to end the discussion.

It seems that even with live, unedited video, etc, you wouldn't accept it as real, but wouldn't try it either!

I am trying to push the world into more econ friendly options!

And for the record l stand behind the Teslar circuit being legit, 100%!

I am sure that before the role of autonomous cars are firmly entrenched there will will be some horrific incidents, such as those you imagine. Many people could be killed. That's the process by which things improve to as close to perfection as is attainable by mankind. Nothing comes to fruition without some people, places and things paying a price for the promise of what that progress has to offer. It has been that way since the beginning of time and it will never change. No amount of fear will ever, ultimately impede the natural progression of accelerated progress.

Ok, fair enough, it is just the ginea pig, part that l don't like!

Or company's sugar coating new tech, to get it into "by my S*** mode, then give it 10 years and a couple of deaths to iron out the bugs?

Maybe you are right, but l still don't like how it is bought into the market!

If they bought this into high risk groups, and it improved survival rates, then good, l would probably give it a thumbs up.

But safe drivers, no, at least not til the 2020's!

How many rockets crashed and burned before we developed an efficient space program? How many horse and buggies were run into before society had to make the decision to relegate them to the back roads of America as the nation clamored for more speed in getting from point A to point B, regardless of the inherent dangers presented by these newfangled contraptions called 'horseless buggies?'

Well, rockets were unmanned, and eventhough some have died, this isn't open to the general publics, so!

There are dozens of things on the horizon that many fear and if given a choice, would ban from our future. The fact is, many of those things are what will make it possible to have a future. You can yell, fight and stand in the way of progress, but you can't stop it unless you want to stop civilization.

I think that you are going off the rails again, progress is fine, but high risk products isn't!

If they could shield a smart watch so the radiation doesn't go near living tissue, then l would be a lot more interested!

But since it can't, (at present) l would consider a smart phone if pressed, since it has more options to get around this.

So, l am not holding back progress, just not letting it turn me into a potential guinea pig!

The GMO's are coming, the autonomous cars are coming, the Robocops are coming, 24/7 360º surveillance is coming, unrestricted euthanasia is coming and those are just a few of the things that we consider bad, or in your parlance, 'evil.' Evil they may be, but they will be offset by major advances in longevity, where crime will be reduced to nuisance levels, where anyone on the planet desiring an education will achieve one, where we won't need a VA fitting our bravest for prosthetic limbs because even if there is a war and a soldier loses a limb, will just graft on a new one grown in a laboratory. I could go on and on with this list also, but since you lack what's necessary to envision such things, I'll stop here.

Lack what is necessary, l have posted a way to make electricity from thin air!

As well as having grown up watching every science tv show and series on tv!

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...-possible.html

As for envisioning, l created this circuit, with zero electronic experience, and tested it for over a year!

Seems more like l am embracing the future!!!!

They don't call it a 'brave new world' for no reason. It is the brave, the forward thinkers, the dreamers, those with a 'can do' way of looking at life that will be the hope for mankind. The highway of history is littered with the fearful, the negative voices, the petty and those without the ability to peer into the future to see how they may be able to make things better as opposed to maintaining the status quo which rarely results in anything of value.

Yes, I'm a dreamer. Since my eternal wish of the human race being wiped from the planet has little chance of taking place, I have moved on to Plan B. How, with all of the perilous challenges facing our world can I be instrumental in transitioning our world to its inevitable future? It's not that I don't have any fear about what we face, it's that I refuse to let my fear paralyze me or keep me chained to a limited vision of what mankind and the science it has created and advanced are capable of.

Ok, l might not have developed the smart watch, not at least til certain issues where minimized. But phones, yes, they have more options.

As for the petty, status quoe, thing, best to go to my Teslar thread!

You should just hide under your bridge, comfortably ensconced in your cocoon of fear. The rest of us will do the heavy lifting, as we understand that not everyone is up for the challenge. The least you can do though, since you refuse or are unable to offer anything positive is to simply pipe-down and let the world get on without you.

If you are unable to contribute anything beyond a voice of fear and opposition, please get out of the way so those with hope and vision can get the job done. It's not at all helpful, nor is it something to be proud of, to denigrate that which you simply don't understand or refuse to be a part of.

We get it. You think I'm an evil person. I can live with that as long as I don't have to live like you, fearful of the world I live in and the world that is yet to come. I may not be able to do anything to facilitate that progress, but I don't plan on doing anything to impede it. That's beyond selfish.

P.S. You'll forgive me if I choose not to engage you on this topic, going forward. It would be pointless.

Heavy lifting! I put myself out and recreate Teslars circuit and prove that it works, and l get this crap!

And you go and buy a watch, and take a chance!

I personally can't figure out what your aversion is to this achievement!

P*** that l took the initiative? Annoyed that if l got this right, then l might be right about other things? You don't like Teslar, since he was a bit out there? Beats me!

Think that you are evil, no, if l thought that then the last conversation that l ended, would have got ugly before it got better!

Confused, possibly?

A Teslar circuit is just like a crystal radio, so there is nothing scary or weird about it at all, so l don't get it!

Sorry mods, and l will end this if it get ugly!

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

The Wright Brothers could have gotten a test pilot, (pretty sure they did, so no restriction there)?

I wonder how many test pilots were listed in the Yellow Pages, when the Wright Brothers built their first plane. Oh, I forgot, they could have just Googled "Test Pilots".

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Teslar circuit,

Tesla. There is no Teslar. It's Nikola Tesla?

And while we are at it..... Stop ending every sentence with a question mark? Only questions end with a question mark?

And one more thing. It's Sociopath...not Social Path?

To Big Frank; Was that entire post written to respond to Shane? (Shane, see? This is a question...and actually needs a question mark)

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BigFrank Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

To Big Frank; Was that entire post written to respond to Shane

Yes, and I guess I can live with 'respond to.' :-)

Cheers. - Frank
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Dan Riffle

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Tesla. There is no Teslar.

A Google search for Teslar revealed about 162,000 results, including a company named Teslar: Teslar .

Wrong again, Whitacre.

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

A Google search for Teslar revealed about 162,000 results, including a company named Teslar: Teslar .

Wrong again, Whitacre.

I don't mind being wrong.

I don't mind your glee, in pointing it out.

I don't even mind that it's Shane I lost to.

But in Shane's mind, this vindicates everything he has ever said, and cements in his brain...that he is a genius. I know. I have a cat that thinks the same way.

I have never heard of Teslar. It just never occurred to me that Shane might have something right. Honest. The thought never crossed my mind.

I am now writing my suicide note. Your name will be featured prominently.

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Dan Riffle

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I am now writing my suicide note. Your name will be featured prominently.

Good. I could use some light reading.

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Good. I could use some light reading.

Your post reminded me...I miss Kurt.

TESLAR......Dammit, dammit, dammit.

My suicide note will read. "I was wrong, Shane was right. I cannot live with myself. By the way, Dan Riffle is an idiot".

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lanfear63

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Your post reminded me...I miss Kurt.

TESLAR......Dammit, dammit, dammit.

My suicide note will read. "I was wrong, Shane was right. I cannot live with myself. By the way, Dan Riffle is an idiot".

Shane was probably was thinking of Fred Teslar who used be the drummer in ACDC

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Marvin Adam 10 years ago

Holding stock in a related company would be a good idea at the moment.
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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I wonder how many test pilots were listed in the Yellow Pages, when the Wright Brothers built their first plane. Oh, I forgot, they could have just Googled "Test Pilots".

Tesla. There is no Teslar. It's Nikola Tesla?

And while we are at it..... Stop ending every sentence with a question mark? Only questions end with a question mark?

And one more thing. It's Sociopath...not Social Path?

To Big Frank; Was that entire post written to respond to Shane? (Shane, see? This is a question...and actually needs a question mark)

http://wright.nasa.gov/overview.htm

Hate to say it but they flew their own planes! But the sound barrier 1950's, was broken with a test pilot!

Tesla, thank you Claude, l was referring to him as his name, so yes, laziness on my part?,.....!, (damnit).

I didn't use the word, socialpath, but yes, have to watch spellcheck!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Question_mark

The backwards question mark is more relevant here, but my computer doesn't have it?....groan....!

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Yes, and I guess I can live with 'respond to.' :-)

Cheers. - Frank

Yes, pretty much figured, since the blood trail didn't go anywhere else. Hopefully this is all water under the bridge!

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

A Google search for Teslar revealed about 162,000 results, including a company named Teslar: Teslar .

Wrong again, Whitacre.

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I don't mind being wrong.

I don't mind your glee, in pointing it out.

I don't even mind that it's Shane I lost to.

But in Shane's mind, this vindicates everything he has ever said, and cements in his brain...that he is a genius. I know. I have a cat that thinks the same way.

I have never heard of Teslar. It just never occurred to me that Shane might have something right. Honest. The thought never crossed my mind.

I am now writing my suicide note. Your name will be featured prominently.

Well, it doesn't vindicate everything that l have said, but raises the possibility that some of the things l have talked about here, might be correct!

It also shows how powerful it is, to ignore, criticism, and herd thought and try it anyway!

I thought that Tesla's circuit had a good chance of working, eventhough l was raked over the coals here, last time we discussed it.

But was l sure, no, (there are tons of scammy free energy videos out there) and more are added daily, (probably intentionally).

Tesla's circuit also shows that some conspiracy theory's are not theory's.

Why aren't farmers using this? Because our gov, want to keep electricity usage, centralized. Or sell as much of their s*** as is possible!

Good business, or being greedy b***, probably a bit of both.

But this sort of thing is also a major threat to oil, so it will be suppressed, (aggressively so) to keep a lid on this.

They don't want this sort of stuff to take off as electricity did, use the Hoover dam as a case study, and it took off after that!

Suicide note, l hope that l get a mention? (Scr** it, l am putting one in).

PS and l am a genius, send me your cat!

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Tesla, thank you Claude, l was referring to him as his name, so yes, laziness on my part?,.....!, (damnit).

Shane;

Thank you. I guess that means I was right. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean Riffle was wrong. I really wanted Riffle to be wrong.

I want you to know, Shane, that admitting that you really did mean Tesla...when you could have let it slide, shows integrity. And that means a lot to me.

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Dan Riffle

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Shane;

Thank you. I guess that means I was right.

Nope, it doesn't mean you were right. You stated there is no Teslar. There is, in fact, a Teslar. Words and phrasing count, Mr. Whitacre.

(Of course, I would let anyone else pass, but just imagining the look on your face as your little hamster wheel of a brain worked it out is more than worth the wombatism.)

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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Nope, it doesn't mean you were right. You stated there is no Teslar. There is, in fact, a Teslar. Words and phrasing count, Mr. Whitacre.

(Of course, I would let anyone else pass, but just imagining the look on your face as your little hamster wheel of a brain worked it out is more than worth the wombatism.)

As much as I am vomiting in my mouth right now.

You are right. The phrasing I used was wrong. And wrong is wrong.

And that is why I said, "Unfortunately, that doesn't mean Riffle was wrong".

But I do not have a hamster wheel of a brain. I have a giant hot air balloon of a brain. Just happily floating through space, until a little prick with a goatee comes along, and deflates it.

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Shane;

Thank you. I guess that means I was right. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean Riffle was wrong. I really wanted Riffle to be wrong.

I want you to know, Shane, that admitting that you really did mean Tesla...when you could have let it slide, shows integrity. And that means a lot to me.

Welcome Claude, l have been a bit of a condescending, smart ar*** as of late, but only because l was raked over the coals last time we discussed, electricity from the air.

This time l made sure that l had a video, etc, all set up, so, there would be no spit roast, (at least not for me).

And yes, even Edison got it wrong, and admitted, it, (well, odd's on) so l will follow his lead!

At least more members here can start 2016 a little more open minded, and more open to radical stuff like this, because there is probably more to come!

Marrrrraaaahhhggg!

PS l like Riffle, so you are on your own with that one, LOL? (Yeah, l know, l like question marks).

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