Germany starts confiscating refugees' valuables; Denmark finalizes bill to do same

8 years ago

Good for them - they are protecting their own economy and citizens.

Countries that took in large numbers of the refugees are going to be providing a lot of service to that group for some time. Not too much to expect those refugees to pay for as much as they can before going 'on the dole'.

It must be a monumental task, especially for Germany, to balance the needs of the refugees with the growing anger of German citizens at some of the things happening there.

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yukon

Banned 8 years ago

Didn't they already take peoples valuables once during World War II?

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AnniePot

8 years ago

99% of these people are NOT refugees or asylum seekers. They are economic migrants, looking to reach the European countries where they can obtain the most 'benefits'.

Under a long-standing EU ruling, a genuine refugee or asylum seeker has to seek asylum in the first safe country he/she reaches. Turkey, Greece and Italy are the European countries they would have first arrived in. However, they have chosen to continue onward for better benefits.

The majority of these people are fit, healthy young men. Why are they not dedicating the efforts they have demonstrated crossing Europe to fighting for their home countries?

I have no quarrel with genuine families of asylum seekers, seeking a better life for their children, but thousands and thousands of young men are a different matter altogether.

Western European countries are being brought to their knees by this aggressive invasion. In the UK, doctors, hospitals and public services in general are unable to cope with the onslaught.

Crime, especially rape is also escalating through the roof. Women are becoming increasingly afraid to leave their homes alone.

Something drastic is going to have to be done to bring this invasion under control.

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yukon Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by AnniePot

Something drastic is going to have to be done to bring this invasion under control.

It's not an invasion when they leave the front door open.
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- BigFrank Banned 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by yukon
  
  It's not an invasion when they leave the front door open.
  
  And hang a 'Welcome' sign at the border while greeting new arrivals with flowers and chocolates. Hell, I'm thinking of going.
  
  Cheers. - Frank
  
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seasoned

8 years ago

Originally Posted by AnniePot

99% of these people are NOT refugees or asylum seekers. They are economic migrants, looking to reach the European countries where they can obtain the most 'benefits'.

Under a long-standing EU ruling, a genuine refugee or asylum seeker has to seek asylum in the first safe country he/she reaches. Turkey, Greece and Italy are the European countries they would have first arrived in. However, they have chosen to continue onward for better benefits.

The majority of these people are fit, healthy young men. Why are they not dedicating the efforts they have demonstrated crossing Europe to fighting for their home countries?

I have no quarrel with genuine families of asylum seekers, seeking a better life for their children, but thousands and thousands of young men are a different matter altogether.

Western European countries are being brought to their knees by this aggressive invasion. In the UK, doctors, hospitals and public services in general are unable to cope with the onslaught.

Crime, especially rape is also escalating through the roof. Women are becoming increasingly afraid to leave their homes alone.

Something drastic is going to have to be done to bring this invasion under control.

OKAY, you are going to HATE this, but a lot of people are now talking about limiting, restricting, and denying this! They don't talk much, and perhaps don't think about this, but the REAL reason for this is that there is NO good way to get to the real goodies, or to go where you WANT to, so they have a way for the X to ACT like X without succumbing to the effects of the IDIOCY! It is called the Schengen visa! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_p..._Schengen_Area

It basically allows a person to effectively jump over any states that are designated in the "area" as if they weren't there to get where they want to, or to a state that will accept them. OTHERWISE, they would have to find a legitimate plane that could take them, or arrange a lot of visas, etc.... Recently a lot of moslem people hijacked a train, or got on there legitimately or illegitimately to use this ability to get to germany, which would NOT take them, and REFUSED to be in Austria, that WOULD accept them!

IMAGINE! It was an EU country with a SIMILAR culture, people, history, customs, and language, and they REFUSED to be there! WHY? Because germany was considered so much better, as far as the healthcare and welfare! I recently watched a video with moslem immigrants that had ALL the goodies, and said that they wished the germans were GONE, and that the country would be better WITHOUT the germans! The ONLY specific reason they stated was that, OH THE HORROR, that the Germans ate PORK and thus were "disgusting"!

Steve

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BigFrank Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Didn't they already take peoples valuables once during World War II?

Not a problem. They were told they could have them back. I wonder how that worked out?

Cheers. - Frank
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- Floyd Fisher 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by BigFrank
  
  Not a problem. They were told they could have them back. I wonder how that worked out?
  
  Cheers. - Frank
  
  My grandmother left Germany in 1939.
  
  I've never asked for it back, and don't want it back. I hope they shove it up their ass.
  
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HeySal

8 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Didn't they already take peoples valuables once during World War II?

Are you talking about America when the gov made owning gold illegal and confiscated it all - or are you talking about the Nazis? So hard to tell the difference sometimes.

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BigFrank

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Are you talking about America when the gov made owning gold illegal and confiscated it all - or are you talking about the Nazis? So hard to tell the difference sometimes.

Yeah. Especially since after they made owning gold illegal, we were all marched-off to the ovens. Very hard to tell the difference.

C'mon, Sal. Sheesh!

Cheers. - Frank

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HeySal

8 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Yeah. Especially since after they made owning gold illegal, we were all marched-off to the ovens. Very hard to tell the difference.

C'mon, Sal. Sheesh!

Cheers. - Frank

I wasn't talking about the resulting genocide - I was talking about the theft. LMAO. And until you get to the genocide after theft, where's the difference? Theft is theft.

Ya might wanna think about that one. They never repealed that law - they just paused it. Got gold?

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BigFrank

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Ya might wanna think about that one. They never repealed that law - they just paused it. Got gold?

No desire to own gold. That's for the folks that live in fear and are preyed upon on Faux News. Where else do you see owning gold advertised? Answer? No where.

When the crap hits the fan, that gold will be worthless. An apple will be the coin of the realm.

Cheers. - Frank

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TimPhelan

8 years ago

Theft is theft except when you are paid for something, then that ain't theft.

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BigFrank Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Theft is theft except when you are paid for something, then that ain't theft.

Uh, oh! There's a possibility this won't end well. lol

Cheers. - Frank
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HeySal

8 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Theft is theft except when you are paid for something, then that ain't theft.

When you are forced to give it up against your will and paid in a form of "currency" that has no intrinsic value of its own -- it's still theft. You tell me why a "free" country has a right to confiscate anything from anyone. That's not freedom.

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Kay King

8 years ago

In this particular case - the subject of the thread, that is - here's how I see it.

If you are a citizen of Germany and you have money - you are expected to pay your rent and food costs and take care of your family. If you run out of money the govt has programs to help you.

If you are a refugee in Germany - same applies. Why not? Many of them paid thousands of dollars for transport out of their country and not all of them are destitute.

You tell me why a "free" country has a right to confiscate anything from anyone

Because a "free" country isn't really "free" in that way. It's not "confiscating" to expect someone to pay their own way IF they can afford to do so. The rhetoric has to fit the story line...

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BigFrank

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

In this particular case - the subject of the thread, that is - here's how I see it.

If you are a citizen of Germany and you have money - you are expected to pay your rent and food costs and take care of your family. If you run out of money the govt has programs to help you.

If you are a refugee in Germany - same applies. Why not? Many of them paid thousands of dollars for transport out of their country and not all of them are destitute.

Because a "free" country isn't really "free" in that way. It's not "confiscating" to expect someone to pay their own way IF they can afford to do so. The rhetoric has to fit the story line...

There are no absolutes in life. None. There are many restraints on your freedoms. That's what civilization is all about.

Cheers. - Frank

P.S. Sorry Kay. This was in response to Sal's post. Me screwed up. :-)

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TimPhelan

8 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

When you are forced to give it up against your will and paid in a form of "currency" that has no intrinsic value of its own -- it's still theft. You tell me why a "free" country has a right to confiscate anything from anyone. That's not freedom.

You can argue that the Gold Reserve Act was wrong, unconstitutional, bad policy etc... but to call it theft when the Treasury paid people for it isn't accurate imo and comparing it to what the Germans did, even before the mass genocide, is way over the top ridiculous. Also, like I've said before, anyone who doesn't think the US dollar has any value please send all their worthless dollars to my paypal account and I'll find some way to make use of them.

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Floyd Fisher

8 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

You can argue that the Gold Reserve Act was wrong, unconstitutional, bad policy etc... but to call it theft when the Treasury paid people for it isn't accurate imo and comparing it to what the Germans did, even before the mass genocide, is way over the top ridiculous. Also, like I've said before, anyone who doesn't think the US dollar has any value please send all their worthless dollars to my paypal account and I'll find some way to make use of them.

I'll happily give you my paper dollars.....just give me back silver dollars in return. Do we have a deal?

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Joe Mobley 8 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Theft is theft except when you are paid for something, then that ain't theft.

Originally Posted by HeySal

When you are forced to give it up against your will and paid in a form of "currency" that has no intrinsic value of its own -- it's still theft.

You mean like... taxes. Got it!

Joe Mobley
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AnniePot

8 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

When you are forced to give it up against your will and paid in a form of "currency" that has no intrinsic value of its own -- it's still theft. You tell me why a "free" country has a right to confiscate anything from anyone. That's not freedom.

Well, years ago, I worked as an office manager/bookkeeper in one of a chain of convalescent hospitals in Southern California. My particular hospital was in Burbank.

Patients' bills were paid in a small part by Medicare and the remainder by private insurance and MediCal, but Medical only kicked in AFTER the patient had "spent down" all his own resources.

I remember one patient's wife who was terrified of what was about to happen. Their house was in joint ownership, but she was going to have to sell it in order to utilize her husband's half of its value to pay his medical bills.

Isn't this a form of confiscation?

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lanfear63

8 years ago

Originally Posted by AnniePot

Well, years ago, I worked as an office manager/bookkeeper in one of a chain of convalescent hospitals in Southern California. My particular hospital was in Burbank.

Patients' bills were paid in a small part by Medicare and the remainder by private insurance and MediCal, but Medical only kicked in AFTER the patient had "spent down" all his own resources.

I remember one patient's wife who was terrified of what was about to happen. Their house was in joint ownership, but she was going to have to sell it in order to utilize her husband's half of its value to pay his medical bills.

Isn't this a form of confiscation?

Dare I mention socialized medicine where everybody pays a little extra out of their salary each month and it's all taken care of, drugs as well. There, I dared.

As for your opinion about 99 percent of refugees just using the strife in their country as an excuse to get free benefits by moving somewhere else, could you provide the research and concrete evidence to back up that claim?

Then there's the bit about staying at home, picking up a gun and joining the fight on whatever side you like to support. If the US broke up into dangerous fighting factions, would you honestly do that, or would you be like most people and cower in their homes, not wanting to fight or put themselves and families in danger and not want to be a target and Die! So after much procrastination, reluctantly, you just have to go elsewhere, you want to be safe.

The oil rich arab countries were never in the business of spreading the wealth around anyway, very much have and have nots. The price of oil will not stay low for ever due to it being a finite resource, they will just have to sit it out but will eventually become winners. Unless of course Alt power really takes hold?

And then, well, despite all the doors being open, if the refugee law was followed, countries, like Greece and Italy are on the verge of bankruptcy. In practice they would be hard pressed to take anyone. I expect they had heard that in the news too. Initially, Germany and a few others were crying out for fresh blood. They are not having anywhere near the amount of children they used too and having an aging population. Big workforce problem. If I had the chance, and they did, I would always go where the prospects are best, would not you?

As for the countries taking away their possessions, that is wrong, if they want to sell them at the going rate (talking about gold and silver and gems I suppose) then fine, you are invited in to be part of the country's populace, why not allow them to sell there stuff and get a bit of disposable income going, give them some infrastructure labor to do and pay them. Not just say, give us your stuff, here's a tent and three foil wrapped meals in exchange, encourage them to start participating quickly since they are going to stay there.

Having said all that, I am still fully aware that benefits, especially in the UK went way out of control, if you were better off having a kid and getting more money than working a job then that's just crazy. Provide a safety net for the basics yes, but don't make it more lucrative than working, The UK had a problem with too many Polish people coming over. Much better lifestyle in the UK living on benefits than living in Poland.

Well, slowly but surely, the government are realising they went too far and cutting back on handouts. There is a balance here to be achieved, go too far and you could bankrupt the country as nobody wants to work, or they do but their family would be worst off.

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seasoned

8 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Dare I mention socialized medicine where everybody pays a little extra out of their salary each month and it's all taken care of, drugs as well. There, I dared.

As for your opinion about 99 percent of refugees just using the strife in their country as an excuse to get free benefits by moving somewhere else, could you provide the research and concrete evidence to back up that claim?

So a drop of water is NOTHING, right? Try a few TRILLION!!!!!!!!!! It is ASTOUNDING how you say MONEY IS IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE SKY HIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And THEN, in the same breath, you say that money is WORTHLESS, HEALTHCARE, EDUCATION, ETC.... should be FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OK, WHICH IS IT? As the minimum wage goes up, other wages MUST! THAT means the cost of healthcare goes UP! It ALSO means the cost of FOOD, HOUSING, POWER, etc... go up. It has ALWAYS been that way and ESPECIALLY after 1913! Socialized medicine works ONLY as care is reasonable, fraud is down, and the payers outnumber those benefiting. As freeloaders come in, fraud ges UP, REASON DROPS, and the number of beneficiaries goes UP! So it becomes less and less practical. Germany, which used to be VERY tolerant, is now CHANGING because of this. Denmark was once THE most tolerant, and now is ADVERTISING that they have changed their ways. WHY the changes? TWO reasons! One is the one I just gave. The OTHER, recently specified by ANGELA MERKEL, HERSELF, is that MOST of them want their OWN laws, language, and culture, and REFUSE to even follow the german ways, and are thus a BURDEN! Did you know that many hospitals now have a sign saying that they provide interpreters? I heard once that over 400 languages are spoken in the US by people that know little english. IMAGINE the problems! It is FAR easier to learn a little english than to have all the immigrants expect translators. The Aviation industry has the SAME problem! Did you know that the average jet flies an average speed of OVER 5 miles a MINUTE? A MINUTE! At a federally mandated minimum distance that is often only about 2 miles, that means a crash can happen if a pilot delays only 15 seconds in following a warning! There is NO ability to find a translator, and then relay it! So how do THEY solve it? TWO WORDS! "AVIATION ENGLISH"! An international agreement that ALL international commercial pilots and air traffic controllers be reasonably conversant in a subset of the language! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_English GRANTED, it is unreasonable to expect that of all patients, but people living in a country should try to understand the predominate language of the country to some degree!

Then there's the bit about staying at home, picking up a gun and joining the fight on whatever side you like to support. If the US broke up into dangerous fighting factions

GEE!!!!! I don't know where YOU live, but I live on this little planet called EARTH! There are LOTS of such factions. THAT is the MAIN reason for what we call COUNTRIES! And there are various cultures that would probably kill one another. I once went with a friend of mine, to see HER friend. Her friend told us to LEAVE, and decided to cower in her home! WHY? She showed us the bullet holes around her door of people in parts of HER culture called GANGS, that tried to kill similar people in OTHER gangs! BTW outlaw guns, and they would STILL have guns! HECK, most of them are registered felons and FORBIDDEN in the US to even TOUCH a gun! So guns ARE illegal! In fact MOST of the famous attacks have been in "GUN FREE ZONES"! The two top cities for gun violence have HEAVY restrictions on guns! And if guns suddenly disappeared, they would use KNIVES, like they do in PRISON! 9/11 was done with BOXCUTTERS!!!!!!!!! AGAIN, carrying guns in airplane cabins has been ILLEGAL for DECADES! That is the MAIN reason for the XRAY MACHINES, and METAL DETECTORS!

As for the refugees going there for the GOODIES? That became WORLD NEWS over the past few months. HECK, read DW.DE! It is all there! People were WELCOMED to a GOOD country, and the "refugees" INSISTED on going to GERMANY for the goodies! If I were them, and REALLY wanted to go to germany for work, or family, I would GLADLY have stayed in the other country! EVEN if I couldn't manage to live in germany in short order, I could use the good transportation to easily cross the border to see family or work. I mean it was RIGHT NEXT DOOR!!!!!!!! SAME general language, SAME GENERAL CULTURE! At several points, they were part of the SAME COUNTRY!

Steve

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lanfear63 8 years ago

And the award for the most unhinged Seasoned post in the history of the OT goes too...
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- seasoned 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by lanfear63
  
  And the award for the most unhinged Seasoned post in the history of the OT goes too...
  
  I WONDER! I imagine there have been some poor polarbears. Maybe they are injured, or have trouble finding food for some reason. Would YOU adopt one? Maybe it is a little cute cub you could teach to be a vegetarian pacifist! I mean if you insist a country have a GROWN polarbear(OBVIOUSLY here a symbol of an angry weaponized alien), why wouldn't you adopt a baby polarbear(The cute cuddly animal you could "teach to be a vegetarian pacifist")?
  
  SERIOUSLY! If YOU YOURSELF are NOT willing to adopt that polarbear, HOW could you demand that others take a group that it SO similar? A LOT of ethnic arabs seem to care NOTHING about the host culture, and there are many that would LOVE to do harm. Such people should be GRATEFUL when such a country accepts them. And if they suddenly find that so many things so greatly improve, they should be less disgusted by things like a person that happens to eat pork at home.
  
  There are places in the US that no longer sell pork products simply because ONE muslim complained about being "offended". Pork products ARE one of the most popular meats in the US. I would think it is BEEF, CHICKEN, PORK, TURKEY, OTHER, though fish may be there somewhere. If you don't REALLY watch what you are eating in the US, you could EASILY eat pork. It is in sausage, hotdogs, pepperoni, etc.... Look at an industry site: https://www.meatinstitute.org/index....7465/pid/47465
  
  Steve
  
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- Mike Anthony 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by lanfear63
  
  And the award for the most unhinged Seasoned post in the history of the OT goes too...
  
  Theres no suspense when the pictures of the nominees at the bottom of the screen are all the same person.
  
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Kurt

8 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

So a drop of water is NOTHING, right? Try a few TRILLION!!!!!!!!!! It is ASTOUNDING how you say MONEY IS IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE SKY HIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!! And THEN, in the same breath, you say that money is WORTHLESS, HEALTHCARE, EDUCATION, ETC.... should be FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OK, WHICH IS IT?

They are not mutually exclusive. It's both.

Socialized medicine works ONLY as care is reasonable, fraud is down, and the payers outnumber those benefiting.

You do understand that the ACA isn't socialized medicine, right? And what do we have, better health care and longer life spans than the countries with socialized medicine in Europe of not? No spin. Just the FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you know that the average jet flies an average speed of OVER 5 miles a MINUTE? A MINUTE!

Did you know that it's closer to twice that speed? TWICE!!

The average speed is actually 550 MPH. To simplify the math, let's round off to 600 MPH. That's 10 miles per minute.

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Joe Mobley

8 years ago

Ahh... a national pastime here in the US, believing the rhetoric and denying the facts.

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Dare I mention socialized medicine where everybody pays a little extra out of their salary each month and it's all taken care of, drugs as well. There, I dared.

Joe Mobley

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seasoned

8 years ago

Originally Posted by AnniePot

Well, years ago, I worked as an office manager/bookkeeper in one of a chain of convalescent hospitals in Southern California. My particular hospital was in Burbank.

Patients' bills were paid in a small part by Medicare and the remainder by private insurance and MediCal, but Medical only kicked in AFTER the patient had "spent down" all his own resources.

I remember one patient's wife who was terrified of what was about to happen. Their house was in joint ownership, but she was going to have to sell it in order to utilize her husband's half of its value to pay his medical bills.

Isn't this a form of confiscation?

Yeah, the same thing happened with my mother! MEDICARE, MEDICAID(She got special permission, even though she was NOT qualified), and SOCIAL SECURITY, AS WELL as personal assets! In the end, her bank account was over $9000 IN THE RED! Her care was paid before all other debt.

ALSO, I worked at a place that tracked medical costs. Medicare people weren't fully paid for, and they had to provide care for people that were in the US ILLEGALLY and had NO payer! SO, of course, people that paid in OTHER ways ended up having to pay MORE! AND, I got more business since the place had to pay my employer so THEY could pay ME a little bit, to change code to be MEDICARE COMPLIANT! There was an EXPENSIVE drug, that cost well into the THOUSANDS of dollars(And potentially THOUSANDS PER WEEK), that many charged medicare for. So medicare LIMITED the use of that HIGHLY necessary drug! They would NOT pay for it past a certain threshold that WE had to measure. If we didn't measure it, and report it, correctly, people could have lost their licenses and been fined.

Steve

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sbucciarel

Banned 8 years ago

If they're coming to a country in droves to be a burden on that economy, they should have to give up any wealth they bring along. What ... want their cake and eat it too?

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BigFrank

Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

If they're coming to a country in droves to be a burden on that economy, they should have to give up any wealth they bring along. What ... want their cake and eat it too?

"Wealth," is a relative term. An extra pair of flip-flops and a bandanna full of chick peas could quaify, I guess. :-)

Cheers. - Frank

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HeySal

8 years ago

Annie - that's a hard one, isn't it? I'd have to say, though - if you have the means to support your own self, then it's on you to do it. social services are supposed to be for emergency - unless they paid into it all their life and then it should just be there at the specified age. If medicaid is coming out of your taxes - then you've paid for that and it's not a dole, it's an earned return.

Lan - Where that is all coming from is that the immigrants in Europe are supposed to go to the first safe country they can get to.........but they are not staying there when they get there. They are moving on into England and Germany where they can get higher benefits. That's illegal.

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Princess Balestra

8 years ago

I figure we gotta wait a few years now for the world's exclamation tank to refill.

Our discourse is gonna be robbed of all sensation for a while.

Guess the point is that all societies are calibrated to operate within certain limits.

Changes come an' go, an' the system — whatever it is — is flexible enough to accommodate alla the shifts.

Right now, there is one helluva shift, all beachin' up on Europe's relatively new alliance of independent nations — an' there is no immediate solution.

So we got a whole lot of tweakin' goin' on, not all of it ideal.

It all points to the reality that we gotta think different about stuff, but we do not yet know how that is gonna work.

As ever when there is more than a gradual change, we gotta keep eyes trained on the greater good less'n any solution becomes a problem further down the line.

I figure this would be a good time for the alien bugs to strike.

Might pull us all together some.

Anyways — back to the serious discussion!

(You missed one, Seez.)

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TimPhelan

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Princess Balestra

I figure we gotta wait a few years now for the world's exclamation tank to refill...

(You missed one, Seez.)

Let me see if I can get some more of those suckers out:

Grrrr....ooomph....ffffrrrrr........

!

Got one! And another........!

!!
!!!!!
!!! !!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!
! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!
!!!!!!
!!!!!!

I think some were stuck on the side. Got to shake it.

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Princess Balestra

8 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

!!
!!!!!
!!! !!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!
! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!
!!!!!!
!!!!!!

Sumtimes, when I am layin' my head on my desk, takin' five with relaxin' music, this is exactly what I get on my screen in the bum-be-dum sound box thingo.

It is the part where the mother whale sings to her babies an' projects her blubbery underside toward the sky.

"oooowEEEEEEEooooo," she sings -- an' then there is a kinda baby chorus, kinda oooweee ooooweeeee, which I guess looks like this:

!!!!!
!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!
!!!!

!!!!
!!!!!
!!!!!!
!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!
!!!

though I will have to play that again to check.

The babies are cute because even when they sing together, they are not as loud as Mom Whale.

It is temptin' to turn 'em up so you can hear their cuteo twibblin', but you gotta time it right cos when Mom Whale hits back with a ooooooohhhhwwwWWWWEEEEEoooooooo, you gonna wreck your ears along with your speakers.

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TLTheLiberator

8 years ago

It sounds like Germany's Southern States are moving forward with this program of "confiscation" - not the whole of Germany.

IMHO, one reason Germany is allowing the most refugees in is because they're (the leadership) trying to make up for WW2. (They're the nice guys now.)

They've already done a great job absorbing East Germany back into the fold after unification and now they'll have 800K more to absorb and given the dynamics involved, this absorption will be quite a bit different.

If I were one of those refugees I'd try to make my way into Germany or France - not because they have the better freebies but because the climate is OK and their economies are the best in Europe save the nordic countries where it would be a bit too cold for me.

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seasoned

8 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

It sounds like Germany's Southern States are moving forward with this program of "confiscation" - not the whole of Germany.

IMHO, one reason Germany is allowing the most refugees in is because they're (the leadership) trying to make up for WW2. (They're the nice guys now.)

They've already done a great job absorbing East Germany back into the fold after unification and now they'll have 800K more to absorb and given the dynamics this absorption will be quite a bit different.

If I were one of those refugees I'd try to make my way into Germany or France - not because they have the better freebies but because the climate is OK and their economies are the best in Europe save the nordic countries where it would be a bit too cold for me.

Yeah, it IS interesting. In a way, you could say it isn't germany, but Bavaria, IIRC,(A state IN germany). AND, coincidentally, it is at least ONE of the areas bordering austria. And they really want to keep the tradition and apparently are paying a lot more of the expenses than most other areas. So they have legitimate reasons for NOT wanting so many that are so foreign. STILL, it is HURTING germany's economy, and even Germany will only go so far. Merkel has lately been making cases for slowing it down and even STOPPING it! She USED to be ALL FOR IT!

BTW you speak of them "absorbing east germany". You want to hear a "secret"?

As a youth, Merkel was nicknamed “Kasi” from her surname, Kasner, and was a studious high schooler who excelled in languages, as had her mother, who had been a teacher of English back in Hamburg. Merkel became so fluent in Russian that she even won a prize trip to Moscow. Like nearly all other college-bound East German teens

YEP! Apparently her father took a job and they moved to EAST germany before the wall was built TRAPPING THEM! So HER FAMILY was one of the ones "absorbed". Although apparently her father cozied up to the communists, and they got a lot of perks, including allowing her to study in west germany.

WOW, Angela Merkel Facts, information, pictures | Encyclopedia.com articles about Angela Merkel has a lot of good information about her like:

She has been a vocal critic of Russian president Vladimir Putin (born 1952), despite the fact that she is modern Europe's first leader to speak fluent Russian.

MAYBE it was BECAUSE of that. She won a trip there because she was apparently VERY fluent in russian.

OH YEAH! About all the X that are for Women's rights, and all? HOW do you claim THAT and yet allow:

http://www.dw.com/en/report-cologne-...tes/a-18999994

Steve

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yetitrailadventure

8 years ago

That is not an easy subject in Europe.

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seasoned

8 years ago

BTW For the record? The exclamation points in those posts were NOT mine! They were THEIRS! THEY are the ones SCREAMING it! THEY are the ones with HUGE SIGNS IN THE STREET PROTESTING, ETC! Here is ONE small taste!

Fast-food workers strike, seeking $15 wage, political muscle

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/dc04...-496503598.jpg

Steve

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Kay King

8 years ago

If medicaid is coming out of your taxes - then you've paid for that and it's not a dole, it's an earned return.

I think you are confusing Medicare and Medicaid.

Medicaid is a public assistance program. It is funded joining by the federal govt and state govts.

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HeySal

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I think you are confusing Medicare and Medicaid.

Medicaid is a public assistance program. It is funded joining by the federal govt and state govts.

Wasn't sure about that one - just an example. If you paid for it out of your taxes, it's not dole. Some people even go as far as calling SS a dole, yet people invest into all their lives.

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seasoned

8 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Wasn't sure about that one - just an example. If you paid for it out of your taxes, it's not dole. Some people even go as far as calling SS a dole, yet people invest into all their lives.

SOME people invest in it throughout their lives!

Steve

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seasoned

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I think you are confusing Medicare and Medicaid.

Medicaid is a public assistance program. It is funded joining by the federal govt and state govts.

Actually, MedicARE is STATE!!!! MedicAID is federal!

https://www.medicare.gov/

https://www.medicaid.gov/about-us/pr...m-history.html

All states, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territories have Medicaid programs designed to provide health coverage for low-income people. Although the Federal government establishes certain parameters for all states to follow, each state administers their Medicaid program differently, resulting in variations in Medicaid coverage across the country.

And you are *****SUPPOSED***** to have paid in, or just been unfortunate! Unfortunately a bunch of idiots don't understand how money works, and decided to make it a free for all INCLUDING LAZY people! If you are DIRT POOR of your OWN volition, it pays your way for coverage. If you work hard and are heavily in debt, even if you had NOTHING to do with it, you may be FORBIDDEN to use it and NOW thanks to the ""affordable" care act", it may throw you further and further in debt for most of your life! I am paying over $7000 a year for NOTHING!!!!!!!! Outside of getting some fantastically bad injury or ailment, that will STILL throw me heavily into debt, I won't see a PENNY from that "insurance". INSURANCE! YEAH RIGHT! In the 20th century, THOUSANDS of people were THROWN IN JAIL and hounded for their ENTIRE LIVES because they offered such "INSURANCE". HEY, they even had an OFFICIAL ORGANIZATION that used this "INSURANCE" to finance other endeavors! HERE is a wikipedia article about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia

So WHY am I paying for the "INSURANCE"? Well, people paid the mafia because they otherwise would lose their assets in some way. THE NON mafia people nicknamed it the "protection racket"! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_racket

A protection racket is a scheme whereby a group provides protection to businesses or other groups through violence outside the sanction of the law. Through the credible threat of violence, the racketeers deter people from swindling, robbing, injuring, sabotaging or otherwise harming their clients. Protection rackets tend to appear in markets where the police and judiciary cannot be counted on to provide legal protection, either because of incompetence (as in weak or failed states) or illegality (black markets).

Protection rackets are often indistinguishable in practice from extortion

The "ACA" does the SAME thing through a "TAX". HOW do you TAX nothing? I mean let's say the tax were a trillion percent. A trillion percent of 0 is ZERO!

In short, medicare/medicaid/social security that WERE primarily paid programs wit payments made PRIOR to need have become giant PONZI schemes where the CURRENT generation has all their assets STOLEN in the hope that the NEXT generation will pay enough to cover the generation CURRENTLY provided for through theft of THEIR assets.

And YES! They WERE sold as and SS last I knew was STILL CALLED a TRUST FUND! Were it private, the owners would be THROWN IN JAIL for FRAUD and EMBEZZLEMENT!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embezzlement

Embezzlement is an act of dishonestly withholding assets for the purpose of conversion (theft) of such assets, by one or more persons to whom the assets were entrusted, either to be held or to be used for specific purposes.[1] Embezzlement is a type of financial fraud, e.g. a lawyer might embezzle funds from the trust accounts of his or her clients; a financial advisor might embezzle the funds of investors; and a husband or a wife might embezzle funds from a bank account jointly held with the spouse.

Embezzlement usually is a premeditated crime performed methodically, with the embezzler taking precautions to conceal his or her activities of the criminal conversion of the property of another person, because the embezzlement is occurring without the knowledge or the consent of the affected person.

Steve

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hardraysnight

8 years ago

so why not blockade libya, that is the easy way

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seasoned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by hardraysnight

so why not blockade libya, that is the easy way

To start with, it would be illegal! The way it is usually done, in decent countries, is that they have a controlled boundary called a BORDER, and have agreement with the bordering areas that THEY will watch it as well. But you can't just go to a country and say WE will take over your sovereignty, and control your borders FOR you. That is usually done ONLY if a country provides a MAJOR obstacle for you, and there is a throughway you can legally block, like they did with Iran, CUBA, etc... or there is a WAR, like they did with Iraq, etc....

BESIDES, libya isn't the only offending country. With a recent rash of rapes in Germany, they have found that the rapists are from like FOUR OR FIVE countries!

Steve
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goneill

8 years ago

Observations from UK

Quote
IMHO, one reason Germany is allowing the most refugees in is because they're (the leadership) trying to make up for WW2. (They're the nice guys now.)Quote

Reflection
Nazis persecuted Jews, Homosexuals and blacks

Refuges (Mainly Muslims)
Hate the Jews and Homosexuals and Non Believers

So Germany are welcoming people with the same views and attitudes as the Nazis.

The USA often quotes its openness to the oppressed, persecuted people of the world. Yet the USA is the main instigator, participant and cause of the problem behind the mass movement of refugees. The USA Government has said it would take two years to process each refugee?

Now consider if 2 million refugess arrived in your backyard, would the people of the USA be willing pay extra taxes to fund the housing, feeding,education etc or agree to divert excisting funding from social programmes for USA citizens? or confiscate the wealth from the refugees to pay for their upkeep.

There are various factors at play in Europe today, which are ecconomic i.e demographics, intergration of nation states and the removal of individual sovereign powers. The European Government took advantage of the refugee situation to advance its financial and ecconomic objectives.

These actions are playing into the hands of nationalistic/white supremists groups who oppose governments who do not converse with the populace and introduce policies that threaten their lifestyle and culture.

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seasoned

8 years ago

Originally Posted by goneill

Observations from UK

Quote
IMHO, one reason Germany is allowing the most refugees in is because they're (the leadership) trying to make up for WW2. (They're the nice guys now.)Quote

Reflection
Nazis persecuted Jews, Homosexuals and blacks

Refuges (Mainly Muslims)
Hate the Jews and Homosexuals and Non Believers

So Germany are welcoming people with the same views and attitudes as the Nazis.

The USA often quotes its openness to the oppressed, persecuted people of the world. Yet the USA is the main instigator, participant and cause of the problem behind the mass movement of refugees. The USA Government has said it would take two years to process each refugee?

Now consider if 2 million refugess arrived in your backyard, would the people of the USA be willing pay extra taxes to fund the housing, feeding,education etc or agree to divert excisting funding from social programmes for USA citizens? or confiscate the wealth from the refugees to pay for their upkeep.

There are various factors at play in Europe today, which are ecconomic i.e demographics, intergration of nation states and the removal of individual sovereign powers. The European Government took advantage of the refugee situation to advance its financial and ecconomic objectives.

These actions are playing into the hands of nationalistic/white supremists groups who oppose governments who do not converse with the populace and introduce policies that threaten their lifestyle and culture.

Germany is letting a LOT of people in! Blacks, french, Americans, etc.... The ONLY reason why they are letting in so many moslems is because so many moslems are ending up on their doorstep! BTW The moslems HATE the germans, and HATE non moslems, etc... OH, and I was surprised to hear nazis are still tolerated, but it is a THIN line, and they could easily end up in JAIL if they cross it!

Don't Come To Germany If You're This Kind Of...

I was actually surprised this was in german! He speaks english well, and this is the first video I heard from him that is all in german, but it has subtitles:

Are Germans Still Guilty for WWII? - YouTube

They have a nice national anthem, but HERE is how this guy feels abut the main verse. It is NOT bad, only patriotic, but it sounds almost like they are saying all others are inferior.

Why You Shouldn't Say DEUTSCHLAND Ã�"BER ALLES -...

Steve

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TimPhelan

8 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

BTW The moslems HATE the germans, and HATE non moslems, etc...

Nothing like lumping together a whole group of people and applying a stereotype of them being universally hateful, bigoted, ungrateful etc... Does that make you feel better?

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seasoned

8 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Nothing like lumping together a whole group of people and applying a stereotype of them being universally hateful, bigoted, ungrateful etc... Does that make you feel better?

Just saying what I have seen on sites that speak of what Moslems have said on the way, and fighting to get there, and in school, If it were even only 10%, it would be a very high amount since they are going there to BENEFIT at the hands of those they so insult though those SAME people owe them NOTHING!!!!!

It is INTERESTING that you speak against what I have, with so much info, said, and yet say NOTHING against those claiming that the Germans are obviously VERY antisemetic since they SUPPOSEDLY do this ONLY for people that are ENEMIES of the jews!

Steve

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seasoned

8 years ago

NOPE! Worthless, and having a lot of value ARE mutually exclusive! We had better healthcare BEFORE ACA! ACA really only APPROACHES healthcare for those that are practically dirt poor. They have THREE PLANS!

1. Low level HEALTH CARE for some, including the real poor. This IS "single payer", and what I predicted YEARS ago, even HERE, that they want to put ALL of us into. WHY did I predict it? TWO REASONS! 1. It is the ONLY way the plan as written could ever "work", and is what they have been asking for! 2.It is the typical CLOWARD PIVEN ploy they have tried for DECADES! HECK, wikipedia says the name became public in 1966!!!!

2. WORTHLESS INSURANCE, given to those that will only help to stress the system, that think they are given a great deal.

3. WORTHLESS INSURANCE given to others, at a HIGH price, that are screaming even now to go back as it was. Obama PROMISED that they wouldNEVER be in this position, but MANY never believed him!

"If you like your plan, you can keep your...

ALL were LIES! PERIOD! There were LOTS of pages that DEMANDED that they STOP offering insurance, and shut down the plans. As I said SOOOOO long ago, it is to be reaccessed every 5 years! I predicted we would be here by 2019! OK, OK, we got there by 2015! HEY, I predicted 2008 would happen closer to 1999, so I guess I was close enough.

As for the idea of germany and "refugees"?

16 y/o German girl talks about muslim...

Steve

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Kurt

8 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

NOPE! Worthless, and having a lot of value ARE mutually exclusive! We had better healthcare BEFORE ACA! ACA really only APPROACHES healthcare for those that are practically dirt poor. They have THREE PLANS!

1. Low level HEALTH CARE for some, including the real poor. This IS "single payer", and what I predicted YEARS ago, even HERE, that they want to put ALL of us into. WHY did I predict it? TWO REASONS! 1. It is the ONLY way the plan as written could ever "work", and is what they have been asking for! 2.It is the typical CLOWARD PIVEN ploy they have tried for DECADES! HECK, wikipedia says the name became public in 1966!!!!

2. WORTHLESS INSURANCE, given to those that will only help to stress the system, that think they are given a great deal.

3. WORTHLESS INSURANCE given to others, at a HIGH price, that are screaming even now to go back as it was. Obama PROMISED that they wouldNEVER be in this position, but MANY never believed him!

"If you like your plan, you can keep your plan." - Barack Obama - YouTube

ALL were LIES! PERIOD! There were LOTS of pages that DEMANDED that they STOP offering insurance, and shut down the plans. As I said SOOOOO long ago, it is to be reaccessed every 5 years! I predicted we would be here by 2019! OK, OK, we got there by 2015! HEY, I predicted 2008 would happen closer to 1999, so I guess I was close enough.

As for the idea of germany and "refugees"?

16 y/o German girl talks about muslim immigration, destruction of her own country (Engl. subs) - YouTube

Steve

Everything you posted is irrelevant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I didn't ask you ANYTHING about how our insurance is or if it was better or worse then or now!!!!!!!!!!! I asked you about our heath care and life spans compared to the health care and life spans of the countries with social heath care!!!

NOPE! Worthless, and having a lot of value ARE mutually exclusive! We had better healthcare BEFORE ACA! ACA really only APPROACHES healthcare for those that are practically dirt poor. They have THREE PLANS!

I TOLD YOU I want FACTS, not opinions and not SPIN!!!!!!!!! What you posted were OPINIONS!!!!!!!!!!

Plus, you changed your argument...I understand that you probably get confused with your own comments, as everyone else does...so for your convenience, I'll repeat your original question for you:

ASTOUNDING how you say MONEY IS IMPORTANT! ! ! ! ! ! RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE SKY HIGH! ! ! ! ! ! ! And THEN, in the same breath, you say that money is WORTHLESS, HEALTHCARE, EDUCATION, ETC.... should be FREE! ! ! !

I hate to break it to you, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO they are not mutually exclusive. Money and heath care are BOTH important.

The debate should be over what's the best way to handle each situation with consideration to the other, not to pretend that one or the other isn't important.

Me: Which team do you think will win the Super Bowl?

You: ***TWINKIES*** and the ******SQUARE****** root of 23!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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