Stay away from illicit business - General Topic

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EDIT: Please do fill in some of the holes and missing information in my post as it will be very helpful for everyone in this forum.

There are hundreds and hundreds of businesses online. Unfortunately, a significant number of these commercial ventures don't have the necessary licenses and regulatory approvals to conduct a service. Here are some reasons why you should stay away from those kinds of websites:

1.) They Could be Scammers

There are a lot of dubious individuals out there who's just online to get a quick buck or two. While they may be promising premium items or guaranteed service, they may just be there for the money. Unless they have the photos, licenses and customer history to provide that they are in fact legitimate seller, don't trust them.

2.) They Could Steal Your Personal Information

When one purchases an item or subscribes to a service, one would automatically have to submit important information such as your name, postal address, your mobile number and even bank details. Since these are not trusted and regulated individuals, they may do something else with your information and it may even put you in harm's way.

3.) They May Infect Your System

A lot of elicit businesses there are just fronts for sites to send dozens of spam links to your accounts and infect your digital assets. Opening up your site to these businesses may compromise your email or social media profile. They may use it for their benefit.

4.) They Don't Have Security and They Are Not Bound By Law

The biggest problems with illegal and unregulated businesses is they don't comply with laws. This means they can practically do anything they want and you, as a consumer, are powerless. You don't have the law to protect you, to ensure that you get what you paid for, and to make certain you are not shortchanged or cheated.

When encountering a business online, make sure to practice a little due diligence and do your research. See if they have the legal business and regulatory requirements demanded from them before dealing with them. It's the only way to ensure your safety.
#business #illicit #stay
  • Profile picture of the author TheGMa
    Thank you for warning members about potential danger, Sultan.

    I only see one problem with your post: you do not explain how potential buyers are supposed to recognize dubious web sites.

    For instance, what does a clone site look like?

    These can be sites that look exactly like the legitimate company site, such as a bank, but in fact are located on private server somewhere in Russia or Malaysia.

    A legitimate bank's domain [www.legitimatebank. com] will be located in the Internet address line at the top of your browser. The domain can be verified through WHOIS.net. A clone's address looks nothing like that. In fact, some clone URL's are complete gobbledygook.

    Also, the links within a clone seldom all work, or will go to pages that make no sense, or lead to yet another nasty site.

    Bottom line, a clone is there only to collect your information either through inserting malware on your computer or by having you fill out a form. The best ones get you to enter your credit card info, social security number (yeah, there are folks who hand off their ss# without even a blink), driver's license number, and whatever else than can persuade a person to share under the veil of authority.

    See what I mean, Sultan? If you are going to warn someone about something, you have to tell them what to look for.

    - Annie
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Sultan
      Originally Posted by TheGMa View Post

      Thank you for warning members about potential danger, Sultan.

      I only see one problem with your post: you do not explain how potential buyers are supposed to recognize dubious web sites.

      For instance, what does a clone site look like?

      These can be sites that look exactly like the legitimate company site, such as a bank, but in fact are located on private server somewhere in Russia or Malaysia.

      A legitimate bank's domain [www.legitimatebank. com] will be located in the Internet address line at the top of your browser. The domain can be verified through WHOIS.net. A clone's address looks nothing like that. In fact, some clone URL's are complete gobbledygook.

      Also, the links within a clone seldom all work, or will go to pages that make no sense, or lead to yet another nasty site.

      Bottom line, a clone is there only to collect your information either through inserting malware on your computer or by having you fill out a form. The best ones get you to enter your credit card info, social security number (yeah, there are folks who hand off their ss# without even a blink), driver's license number, and whatever else than can persuade a person to share under the veil of authority.

      See what I mean, Sultan? If you are going to warn someone about something, you have to tell them what to look for.

      - Annie
      Thank you for the useful post Annie! I'll keep that in mind!
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    There are hundreds and hundreds of businesses online
    ...or tens of thousands.

    Most important is this:

    A legitimate bank's domain [www.legitimatebank. com] will be located in the Internet address line at the top of your browser. The domain can be verified through WHOIS.net. A clone's address looks nothing like that. In fact, some clone URL's are complete gobbledygook.
    On this forum, those same "illicit" sites use bit.ly, etc to direct you to their questionable domain...the domain in the address bar will usually give it away if you take a moment to look at it.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheGMa
    Thanks for the info, Kay

    BTW, love your sig. It makes me smile every time I see it

    - Annie
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  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    You don’t have the law to protect you, to ensure that you get what you paid for, and to make certain you are not shortchanged or cheated.
    No, but I have Paypal. I trust them more than any "legal" entity.
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  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    Originally Posted by Mr Sultan View Post


    See if they have the legal business and regulatory requirements demanded from them before dealing with them. It’s the only way to ensure your safety.
    Oh crap I may be in trouble as well as 99.9% of the marketers here

    Better go back and make sure my 2 dozen or so niche sites have all the legal business and
    regulatory requirements
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  • Profile picture of the author nwik
    Thanks for the reminder.

    People should take time to read this.

    You really cannot easily trust people nowadays. You have to be secure especially when it comes to money matter.
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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
    You don't have to go far to find scammers/thieves etc. trust me...
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  • Profile picture of the author SCrafted
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Mr Sultan View Post

    There are hundreds and hundreds of businesses online. Unfortunately, a significant number of these commercial ventures don’t have the necessary licenses and regulatory approvals to conduct a service. Here are some reasons why you should stay away from those kinds of websites:

    1.) They Could be Scammers

    There are a lot of dubious individuals out there who’s just online to get a quick buck or two. While they may be promising premium items or guaranteed service, they may just be there for the money. Unless they have the photos, licenses and customer history to provide that they are in fact legitimate seller, don’t trust them.

    2.) They Could Steal Your Personal Information

    When one purchases an item or subscribes to a service, one would automatically have to submit important information such as your name, postal address, your mobile number and even bank details. Since these are not trusted and regulated individuals, they may do something else with your information and it may even put you in harm’s way.

    3.) They May Infect Your System

    A lot of elicit businesses there are just fronts for sites to send dozens of spam links to your accounts and infect your digital assets. Opening up your site to these businesses may compromise your email or social media profile. They may use it for their benefit.

    4.) They Don’t Have Security and They Are Not Bound By Law

    The biggest problems with illegal and unregulated businesses is they don’t comply with laws. This means they can practically do anything they want and you, as a consumer, are powerless. You don’t have the law to protect you, to ensure that you get what you paid for, and to make certain you are not shortchanged or cheated.

    When encountering a business online, make sure to practice a little due diligence and do your research. See if they have the legal business and regulatory requirements demanded from them before dealing with them. It’s the only way to ensure your safety.
    Sorry Mr. Sultan but i find your thread completely worthless. This thread would have been helpful if you would have give some tips on how to identify these kind of businesses... and not just by saying that there are hundreds of scams out there. No kidding!

    and btw there are millions and millions of businesses online and not hundreds and hundreds...
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    • Profile picture of the author AlexCN
      Originally Posted by SCrafted View Post

      Sorry Mr. Sultan but i find your thread completely worthless. This thread would be helpful if you could give some tips on how to identify these kind of businesses... and not just by saying that there are hundreds of scams out there. No kidding!

      and btw there are millions and millions of businesses online and not hundreds and hundreds...
      How about taking the time to fill in some of the holes and missing information in his
      post instead of wasting time being derogatory and hurtful?

      This forum is about adding value and lending a helping hand where possible.

      Alex
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      • Profile picture of the author SCrafted
        Banned
        Originally Posted by AlexCN View Post

        How about taking the time to fill in some of the holes and missing information in his
        post instead of wasting time being derogatory and hurtful?

        This forum is about adding value and lending a helping hand where possible.

        Alex

        Because i dont know. How about you? Instead of replying to me you could have added your thoughts on how to identify this scams...
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Because i dont know.
    But this thread alerts you something you don't know - so get busy and learn about it. Don't wait for the knowledge to be handed out in a neat little package.

    A couple of us did post about what to look for. In the past, other members would have joined in in the next day or so with specific advice.

    When you start complaining without offering any help in a thread - you change the direction of the thread and open it to spammers....which you can see happening here.
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    Due to the current pandemic I will no longer be shaking hands or giving hugs. You may wave, bow to me or give me the finger...your choice.
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    • Profile picture of the author SCrafted
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Don't wait for the knowledge to be handed out in a neat little package.
      And who said i am waiting for knowledge to be handed out to me? You, i didn't. I wasn't looking for this particular topic when was going through the threads, i just saw it and started reading it. I also left my feedback because i really think it didn't help me at all. Reading the title i thought it was going to be helpful and started reading it... OP could have had true and really good intentions to help others but it didn't help me.

      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      When you start complaining without offering any help in a thread - you change the direction of the thread and open it to spammers....which you can see happening here.
      I don't want to be rude but I actually think i am helping with my post. I am helping others not to waste time reading this thread (sometimes i start by reading the last post insted of the first one).
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by SCrafted View Post

        I don't want to be rude but I actually think i am helping with my post. I am helping others not to waste time reading this thread
        Valid point and I am with you. The entire premise is off . Having or not having a business license will say very little about your products or service in IM particularly MMO IM. In many municipalities all you need is an address and pay the business fee to have a valid license for IM. In some areas none at all.

        In some profession niches it means something but there is no professional accreditation for marketers.
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        • Profile picture of the author SCrafted
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Valid point and I am with you. The entire premise is off . Having or not having a business license will say very little about your products or service
          Hey Mike, is not just that, the thread is so vague and gives no information at all. Is like saying: "Kids don't do drugs, they are bad for you", without explaining any of the reasons why they are bad.

          While this forum, and the web in general, are full of great and valuable information, there are so many things you could avoid reading and save the time to read something else. Sometimes it can be frustrating for someone looking for real and valuable information...
          This thread reminds of those "make money online guides" 99% of them are so vague and give no information at all and when you finish reading the last page you end up with nothing...

          Also do you think is better to give honest feedback or to lie? Should we all lie to eachother and make the forum a happy place? It was just my personal opinion of course and i could be wrong but i mean, should i have lied instead? Saying: "Oh what a great thread, really helpful thanks" only because OP intentions were clearly honest and was trying to help others? I like honest people and not fake ones, even if sometimes they could hurt my feelings, i have better chances to understand and improve with them rathen than with somebody who is lying to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Right - wouldn't want anyone to start looking too closely at some of the links they find here....
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Originally Posted by Mr Sultan View Post

    Unfortunately, a significant number of these commercial ventures don't have the necessary licenses and regulatory approvals to conduct a service.

    (snip)

    When encountering a business online, make sure to practice a little due diligence and do your research. See if they have the legal business and regulatory requirements demanded from them before dealing with them. It's the only way to ensure your safety.
    There's another problem with verifying whether a business has the proper "legal and regulatory requirements" to conduct business. Whose requirements do you use, and how do you verify them if the information isn't public record?

    For example, the UK has some very specific laws in regards to cookies, their use and disclosure. The USA has the CAN-SPAM law applying to commercial email.

    If I'm a US business dealing with a US customer, the UK laws are not relevant. A German sending email to a Spaniard or Frenchman isn't bound by CAN-SPAM (at least, not directly - the ESP may require it in their TOS, but that's another story.)

    Another example - how do you verify a domain via WHOIS if the record is private? All you get is the registrar.

    It's fine to say "do your due diligence", as we can all use a reminder, but to be truly useful, some added info is needed.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheGMa
    Hey John!

    Exactly - it always boils down to buyer beware.

    Truth is, there is some mighty fine information to be found by clicking on the sigs in this forum, but there are a lot of complete landing page duds with a ton of bs.

    I actually click on each and every signature to see what I will find. It really helps weed out the ones who know what they are about in their posts from the ones to follow.

    But that's not easy for a newbie.

    I could easily write a book about detecting fraud in advance, red flags, and that stuff. Problem is, no one would read it until it's too late. Victims are the only ones who seek advice about fraud. It's human nature.

    - Annie
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...me-online.html

    Until it's deleted - that's a good example of a link to be wary of....
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  • Profile picture of the author Dano101
    Fraud 101.

    Warning: Someone has tried to access your PayPal account.

    To make sure that you are the owner of said account. Please click on the link which will direct you to our (cloned) PayPal site (cough cough) and enter in your username and password.

    We will immediately secure your Paypal account and have unlimited access to your funds upon verification (wink wink)

    Thank you for using PayPal.

    Lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author SCrafted
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    When you start complaining without offering any help in a thread - you change the direction of the thread and open it to spammers
    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...me-online.html

    Until it's deleted - that's a good example of a link to be wary of....
    mmh right... I can tell you are taking this thread pretty seriously and you gave awesome insights on how to avoid internet scams and also you are not changing the direction of the thread at all...


    As i predicted this thread is not turning into something useful. Only jokes (most of them not funny btw). Probably the only post that makes sense is John's post.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dano101
    The companies selling anti virus protection are usually the companies that sent you the Pop Up Warning sign in the first place. They have the pop up freeze your screen with a big infection warning sign and then try to sell you the protection software.

    So I stay far away from those anti virus illicit sites.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheGMa
      Originally Posted by Dano101 View Post

      The companies selling anti virus protection are usually the companies that sent you the Pop Up Warning sign in the first place. They have the pop up freeze your screen with a big infection warning sign and then try to sell you the protection software.

      So I stay far away from those anti virus illicit sites.
      And the above is an excellent example of why the scammers win every time: hardly anyone has a clue about how to perform due diligence, so they jump on the rumor mill wagon because it's easier than than learning the time-consuming methods that must be used to verify anything.

      No, companies that develop anti-virus and anti-spyware are not the ones putting up those ridiculous pop ups. Those are put in place by .... affiliates!!

      And that's enough for me in this thread. It has become nasty as can be, with all sorts of comments being thrown about.

      I have way more fun making money than reading nasty, unkind posts.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    Perhaps this was the "underlying" cause of my recent 8 page (3451 word) post - that most will likely never read, as it was 50% rhetoric, 30% altruism, and 20% bullshit deriving from a combination of boredom and long sustained attempts at being a "legit" online business provider, lol.

    While I have little to contribute regarding "illicit businesses" or their practices - I find it a "grey" area that has no place among the ethical & honest approach, but as is so with life... people will continue to "pursue the path of least resistance" trying to make a living.

    I'm not incorporated, licensed, or anything less than FTC compliant at best, and do try to comply with the CANN SPAM Act - as it just seems appropriate.

    Meanwhile, I owe the IRS, have terrible credit, and have no freaking clue how to abide by 90% of the laws man has created as a means of control, conform, or as the "power struggle" for rule continues...

    In my opinion, the US and it's citizens (myself included) - could easily question; if our government isn't an "illicit business?" - as they cannot even balance a f'ing checkbook!

    Meanwhile, I have no logical solution to an "end all - be all" solution befitting to those who wake up with an ethical and moral obligation sewn into their being. At times, I almost wish I played for the other team, as it seems they may win this race to destruction.

    Be it as it may, we shouldn't ignore the problem, rather continue to pursue a resolve, or the solution.

    In this case, if the website seems to have what you seek, research, purchase, and be aware of the risks.

    I barely trust myself these days, let alone someone else... for I might offend the powers that be.

    - Art
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    • Profile picture of the author MSutton
      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      Perhaps this was the "underlying" cause of my recent 8 page (3451 word) post - that most will likely never read, as it was 50% rhetoric, 30% altruism, and 20% bullshit deriving from a combination of boredom and long sustained attempts at ..................................
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      • Profile picture of the author art72
        Originally Posted by MSutton View Post

        Please forgive my "satirical humor" - for truly I know not a more clever way to define what humanity has provoked... of my primal mind. For as of late, I find the dictionary far more interesting and entertaining than most humans.
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  • Profile picture of the author MSutton
    It's OK to be misanthropic. Just be succinct about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    Indeed, as I am performing my "due diligence" - while attempting to ween myself from such; sour milk.
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    • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      Indeed, as I am performing my "due diligence" - while attempting to ween myself from such; sour milk.
      Are you Eagle one from "Real Scam" Forums?

      Are you "Lyndell" from "MoneyMakerGroup" forums?

      Are you just a troll acting out his persona?

      http://www.realscam.com/members/eagleone/

      http://www.moneymakergroup.com/Lynndel-m146876.html
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      'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
      -Muhammad Ali

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  • Profile picture of the author MSutton
    I don't think anyone truly finds people likable or interesting. Those that say they do are just trying to convince themselves.

    Drugs exist for a reason.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dano101
    During liquor prohibition. None of the bootleggers or businesses were licensed to sell alcohol.

    But I doubt their buyers gave 2 hoots about the license. Lol.

    They got the stuff / product you seek. And You got the money they want.

    It's a win win.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well, OK, YOU ASKED!

    1.) They Could be Scammers

    There are a lot of dubious individuals out there who’s just online to get a quick buck or two. While they may be promising premium items or guaranteed service, they may just be there for the money. Unless they have the photos, licenses and customer history to provide that they are in fact legitimate seller, don’t trust them.

    2.) They Could Steal Your Personal Information

    When one purchases an item or subscribes to a service, one would automatically have to submit important information such as your name, postal address, your mobile number and even bank details. Since these are not trusted and regulated individuals, they may do something else with your information and it may even put you in harm’s way.

    3.) They May Infect Your System

    A lot of elicit businesses there are just fronts for sites to send dozens of spam links to your accounts and infect your digital assets. Opening up your site to these businesses may compromise your email or social media profile. They may use it for their benefit.

    4.) They Don’t Have Security and They Are Not Bound By Law

    The biggest problems with illegal and unregulated businesses is they don’t comply with laws. This means they can practically do anything they want and you, as a consumer, are powerless. You don’t have the law to protect you, to ensure that you get what you paid for, and to make certain you are not shortchanged or cheated.

    When encountering a business online, make sure to practice a little due diligence and do your research. See if they have the legal business and regulatory requirements demanded from them before dealing with them. It’s the only way to ensure your safety.
    #1 requires research and THEN it isn't perfect.
    #2 requires research, and THEN isn't perfect
    #3 see 1 and 2.
    #4 see 1 through three, and rules VARY and usually mean NOTHING!!!!!!!! BTW wat to know a secret? Almost EVERY internet site is breaking US law! But HEY, even the FBI did!

    SO, MY advice?

    1. Don't buy something from an unknown site if you can buy from a known one.
    2. DON'T reenter information if you can avoid it. PAYPAL may owe a LOT of business to this. If you go to an unknown site, and enter credit card details, EVEN if they follow the HTTPS methods that many don't, and the encryption rules almost NOBODY does, and the EMAIL rules many break, the info may STILL fall into the wrong hands! The OLD paypal methods keep MOST info out of the hands of merchants. Clickbank and similar sites ALSO limit such access.
    3. If you MUST enter private details, make sure they always use a private and fully validated HTTPS cert. verisign/thawte at least WERE by far the best. WHY? Because they certified the owner, and are a TIER 1 C/A.
    4. If you can. use an email address that is only for THAT use.
    5. Research from multiple sources with multiple weightings. Stars, number of buyers, and ratings aren't that meaningful without weighting. Many reviewers on amazon, for example, LIE and/or tell half truths, and that often becomes obvious by reading the reviews. A REAL reviewer will often review, and MANY people give high or low numbers of stars for the wrong reasons.
    6. Oh yeah, type in the EXACT domain name, PERFECTLY! Many hijack sites are named closely, etc... In the US:

    ALL US government sanctioned military sites will end with MIL. ALL US government sites will end with GOV. ALL US government sanctioned school sites will end with EDU. NET/COM/ORG are tossup domains. They could be and may not be, legitimate non government sites. Be suspicious of ANY US site that has a different domain. They MAY be 100% legit, but the chances that they AREN'T increases greatly. Of course OTHER countries have a master TLD, and legitimate sites are often NET/COM/ORG, or a given domain under the country TLD.

    NOTHING is perfect but following those top 6 rules will limit fraud, make it easier to catch and resolve, and give you a better chance.

    Steve
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