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This is ridiculous...

by Kay King
21 replies
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How stupid do the TSA procedures need to be ...before people start avoiding flights completely?

At least two airports now telling people to get to the airport THREE hours prior to their flight. Stupidity!

The way it is now I'd spend an hour getting to the airport - 3 hrs wait time - 2 hr flight - 30 minutes to get bags and out of airport - and then another hour getting to my destination at the other end.

That's 7.5 hours - and it's a distance I can drive in 7.5 hrs and have a car when I get there. Something tells me the roads will be crowded this summer!
  • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
    Can you drive to Asia?
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    How stupid do the TSA procedures need to be ...before people start avoiding flights completely?

    At least two airports now telling people to get to the airport THREE hours prior to their flight. Stupidity!

    The way it is now I'd spend an hour getting to the airport - 3 hrs wait time - 2 hr flight - 30 minutes to get bags and out of airport - and then another hour getting to my destination at the other end.

    That's 7.5 hours - and it's a distance I can drive in 7.5 hrs and have a car when I get there. Something tells me the roads will be crowded this summer!
    There is always the possibility that they simply want you at the airport longer, because you'll spend more money there on food and drink.

    I was in a casino that served a great steak meal for $7. It took 90 minutes to get a table. Half the tables were empty.

    I was with a marketer at the time (and our wives) We decided that the casino found that 90 minutes was the best time to delay to guarantee the highest profit per customer.

    My friend lost about $600 playing Blackjack. I remember that he loved his $607 steak.
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    • Profile picture of the author perryny
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      There is always the possibility that they simply want you at the airport longer, because you'll spend more money there on food and drink.
      They'll make even more money if they start charging for the cots when they cause you to miss your flight and you have to spend the night...

      Long security lines strand dozens overnight at Chicago

      "Transportation Security Administration lines were more than two hours long Sunday, causing 450 people to miss their flights, according to American Airlines spokeswoman Leslie Scott. Stranded passengers who couldn’t get on a later flight slept on cots at the American terminal."
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    How stupid do the TSA procedures need to be ...before people start avoiding flights completely?

    At least two airports now telling people to get to the airport THREE hours prior to their flight. Stupidity!

    The way it is now I'd spend an hour getting to the airport - 3 hrs wait time - 2 hr flight - 30 minutes to get bags and out of airport - and then another hour getting to my destination at the other end.

    That's 7.5 hours - and it's a distance I can drive in 7.5 hrs and have a car when I get there. Something tells me the roads will be crowded this summer!
    Yep, it's a great world we're leaving for the kids and grandkids.
    We've made a real mess of things. Just another fine example.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    We were watching it on news again tonight....and it's surprising how patiently the people wait in lines for hours. They grumble, etc - but they put up with it.

    TSA workers are paid $15-24 - and they say for every 200 new TSA agents hired, there are 117 that quit. They say they can't hire enough people at those hourly rates....

    So - simple solution:

    Hire all the fast food workers that want $15 per hour. Is that an elegant solution or what?
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    You can take it a step further....

    Some states have experimented with having inmates live with and obedience train dogs that will later be trained as service dogs. It's been great for the dogs - ALL rescues from shelters - and has improved inmate behavior, too.

    So you take dogs from the shelters - train them for 6-12 months by prisoners (professional trainers work with them) - then dogs go into service training and to the airports and other hubs..

    They are more reliable, cheaper once the training is done - and they won't quit or go on strike or ask for a raise.

    It's been proposed several times but always gets passed up in favor of the latest scanning machines (owned by some pols brother in law) or some other high priced item that will bring in votes or donations. Dogs aren't political animals - and that works against them.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    They are also saying that they need to hire an INCREDIBLE number of new TSA agents. My advice, and apparently many agree, is that if you can safely drive to the area within about 5-6 hours, and have a place to park your car, DRIVE IT!
    WHY?

    2 hours to go to/from the airports
    2 hours to break/collect your items.
    2 hours to go through security and other delays.

    That is pretty much BEST case, and I haven't covered special searches, extra delays, or even the flight. Remember though that air time will take about 4-8 times as long to drive.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
    Banned
    There is always a bright side Kay.

    You do not have to deal with this...


    Airport bullet scam putting travelers on guard
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  • Profile picture of the author agmccall
    Get rid of TSA and go back to having Airports and Airlines do the security themselves.

    Follow the lead of some of the safest airports around, Israel, and that is PROFILE.

    al
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    And some people want the government to completely take over healthcare. lmao

    Is TSA Devious, Or Simply Inept? Experts Weigh In On Airport Gridlock « CBS Chicago
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  • Profile picture of the author LoraG
    Whatever they do people will not stop flying anyway, keep kalm and hope for the best))
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  • Profile picture of the author ExcelExpert
    And of course these queues we have been seeing on YouTube clips make ideal terrorist targets. One clip showed people queuing 4 or 5 abreast in a long walkway with no escape routes. It took the camera man a good couple of minutes to get from one end to another.

    Terrorists at either end of those tunnels and they could easily kill more people than could by bringing down a plane.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by ExcelExpert View Post

      And of course these queues we have been seeing on YouTube clips make ideal terrorist targets. One clip showed people queuing 4 or 5 abreast in a long walkway with no escape routes. It took the camera man a good couple of minutes to get from one end to another.

      Terrorists at either end of those tunnels and they could easily kill more people than could by bringing down a plane.
      So far, I haven't seen the queues go outside of the airport. Most airports, especially the larger ones, have people that can use lethal force within a couple minutes of the airport. They are there, and can just come in and draw their guns, or get rifles from their car. This includes shotguns made to be able to maim a criminal while causing minimal structural and colateral damage. If someone reaches for a gun, they could get shot before they are able to pull the trigger.

      If they want to check bombs, supposedly they undergo some tests to defeat a number of methods. If they try to leave bags, etc.... They are supposed to be moved away. They COULD wear a bomb, but that is likely suicide. Although I DID recently hear a story of a guy that accidentally took his gun on a plane. He didn't realize it until he opened his bag on the plane. Luckily nobody else found out.

      They DO run bags through special scanners and they are SUPPOSED to automatically flag things like guns, but I guess they failed. I have actually managed to take full bottles, and roles of coins through! The bottles are considered contraband, and coins could be ANYTHING.

      WITHIN the airport, and on the tarmac, they have places can be, and there are crowds, but that is in what is called the STERILE area. There are only four ways to get there:

      1. Inside job,....ILLEGAL
      2. TRESPASS(Like jumping a gate to get to the tarmac).....ILLEGAL and can trigger a lockdown
      3. Getting past a lightly guarded area.....ILLEGAL and can trigger a lockdown
      4. Going through security, which is SUPPOSED to catch weapons.

      There HAVE been a few lockdowns triggered since 9/11. Basically the planes are stopped, gates are closed, and the search the airport. Here was the first such incident my simple search brought up:

      Security breach leads to lockdown at Detroit airport

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author ExcelExpert
    From what I could see of the queues were pre any sort of real checking - there may have been more cursory checking before this point but that wasnt shown. In this particular video the queue was winding its way through large amounts of the airport - it went from hall to hall, corridor to corridor.

    The bit that concerned me in particular were the corridor walk way sections. There was no obvious security in there in the video but as you said they could be there in minutes. I could easily imagine a group of suicide bombers/attackers starting their attack in the middle of the corridor and killing large amounts of people before being stopped. I'm presuming rescue would have to come from either end of the corridor / walk way.

    It is hard to say for sure because it is unclear what (if any checks) the people at that point had been through. Are there any checks before the TSA?

    Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Just a hunch, but I bet France and Egypt won't be complaining about airport gridlock much in the near future.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Maybe not - but there has to be a balance between security and efficiency.

    How many hours are you willing to stand in line to take a 2 hour flight? Even the TSA realizes they are pushing the limits of patience.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


      How many hours are you willing to stand in line to take a 2 hour flight? Even the TSA realizes they are pushing the limits of patience.
      LA is about a 1.5 hour flight from the Bay Area. I usually will drive down there instead of flying because time and money wise there isn't a huge difference. I've probably flown to LA only a handful of times compared to dozens of times driving, but I like driving while others don't. Now, from SF to Vegas is a different matter. Although the flight time is about the same driving takes much longer, 9 to 10 hours to Vegas compared to 5 to 6 to LA. I usually prefer to fly to vegas.

      Anyways, the point is I usually expect some sort of delay at the airport, especially after 9-11. The longer the delays the more likely someone may drive the shorter distances but the security lines at airports change and these issues they are having now will work themselves out. It's annoying but so can dealing with crazy ass drivers on the road. Lol Probably safer too!
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Apparently there CAN be efficiency if the stakes are high enough....today the head of the TSA and the Mayor of Chicago were at the airport.

    Magically, the lines were shorter and with greatly reduced waiting time....guess the moral is to fly on days when the "VIPs" show up....
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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    @Tim... I take it you are still in Cali?

    Personally, I have not minded the lines so far, and have been allowed to board after arriving just 30-45 minutes in advance a couple of times.

    Sure wish I was back in Cali though...

    Born in Roseville, lived in Sacramento, L.A., San Diego and the Napa Valley area. Loved Northern Cali, was not as fond of California when we had a condo just a short walk up the interstate from the San Ysidro border crossing.

    In the mid-80's I used to get offers from the Mexicans of a hundred dollars a head to house illegals for an hour. No, I was not in that business!

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Yeah, I live in Mountain View now, Don. Should be called Google Town because they are dominant here. Apple too. The construction going on is crazy now. I'm not sure how all the people moving here are going to fit! And speaking of gridlock.... the traffic is LA like.
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