My Heart and Sympathy Goes Out To Taylor Swift and...

Ron Douglas

15 years ago

West apologized on his blog.

Was he just being a jerk or was it all a publicity stunt with MTV?

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seasoned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ron Douglas

West apologized on his blog.

Was he just being a jerk or was it all a publicity stunt with MTV?

Are you KIDDING!?!?!?!? If it were a stunt at this point, people would be up in arms. People would hate TAYLOR also!

kanye west should have been THROWN OUT and BANNED from any such things. Taylor had this great point in her life, was on a high, showing gratitude and ALONG someone comes to pull the rug out from under her.

SUPPOSEDLY he apologized, but did you get a load of the FIRST apology? That was more of an INSULT!

And YEAH, I DO hate the:

~unemployment
~child abuse
~homicides
~war

And yeah, "Annie Le"s death is bad. I hope her killer gets what they should!

STILL, there was no excuse for what kenye did. If he has a blog, he should have made his BAD comment THERE!

Steve
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Lisa Gergets

15 years ago

OH man, I'm sure I'll be called a total biatch for saying this, but have you looked at the newspapers lately? Here are some things to be "deeply saddened" about:

~unemployment
~child abuse
~homicides
~war

Jeebus I could go on and on. And on. And on.

I agree that Kanye's a jerk for doing what he did, but seriously? Deeply saddened? No way.

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Ram 15 years ago

Gotta agree. I couldn't care less about this stuff. It is not even a tiny pimple on the ass of the world.
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mikengo

15 years ago

It's probably a publicity stunt. Remember Eminem and Borat?

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Michael Motley

15 years ago

kanye's a jerik, but this isnt something i'm deeply saddened by

What does bother me though is the young yale student that was killed. 24 years old, graduate student from yale in macrobiology, daughter of vietnamese immigrants, killed and stuffed into a wall in her lab, and they found her the day she was supposed to be married.

THAT is sad.

I couldnt possibly care less about taylor swift or kanye west

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solardave

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

kanye's a jerik, but this isnt something i'm deeply saddened by

What does bother me though is the young yale student that was killed. 24 years old, graduate student from yale in macrobiology, daughter of vietnamese immigrants, killed and stuffed into a wall in her lab, and they found her the day she was supposed to be married.

THAT is sad.

I couldnt possibly care less about taylor swift or kanye west

Kanye WHO? Please. I mean really.

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seasoned

15 years ago

Originally Posted by solardave

Kanye WHO? Please. I mean really.

I wouldn't have cared. Maybe NOBODY would have cared. But he did it ON STAGE, while she was speaking!

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Paul Myers

15 years ago

When I saw that, all I could think was, "Here's another person who thinks that anything that doesn't agree with him needs to be treated with disdain."

So, he was a jerk. Big deal. Beyonce, on the other hand, was magnificent. There's not a lot of that kind of class around these days.

And yeah... It's nothing but gossip-fodder. Hardly worth anything but the lesson in the examples.

Kanye's attitude is why we have wars. Beyonce's is how we get peace.

Paul

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seasoned

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

When I saw that, all I could think was, "Here's another person who thinks that anything that doesn't agree with him needs to be treated with disdain."

So, he was a jerk. Big deal. Beyonce, on the other hand, was magnificent. There's not a lot of that kind of class around these days.

And yeah... It's nothing but gossip-fodder. Hardly worth anything but the lesson in the examples.

Kanye's attitude is why we have wars. Beyonce's is how we get peace.

Paul

I DID like the way beyonce handled it. It was handled ALMOST as well as anyone could, short of treating kenye as he SHOULD have been treated RIGHT THEN AND THERE! ALSO, beyonce should have shown disdain for that, etc... STILL, it wasn't good enough. HOW do you ever fix that? As lawyers sometimes say, HOW do you unring a bell?

Frankly, what upsets me is not that he was a jerk, but that he ruined that moment. Like I said, he could have just done it ELSEWHERE! HECK, Beyonce has had PLENTY of moments! If she were in some way insulted, or didn't get an award, etc.... She probably wouldn't have minded NEARLY as much.

I bet if I did that that I wouldd be ridiculed and banned. I don't believe in racism, nepotism, etc.... They should ban KENYE the same way. If that means the end of his entire "career", TOUGH! And, if I were taylor swift, and hit it big, I would do what I could to make sure he was at NONE of my events.

Steve

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webpromotions

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Kanye's attitude is why we have wars. Beyonce's is how we get peace.

Paul

His attitude isnt why we have wars...its from all of the (normal) people who support him...Beyonce included. There are millions of people who act like Kanye on a daily basis, but the difference is they don't have a group of enablers and supporters behind them.

I applaud Beyonce for her actions that night, but she should have stopped being friends with Kanye many many years ago, after one of his other umpteen stupid comments- perhaps the one where he publicly said Bush hates all black people?

Kanye is a waste of space on earth and he knows it, yet for many years he's had support from from HUGE stars - everyone from Beyonce to the morons at MTV.

Why should he change? He gets exactly what he wants...

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seasoned

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Doug English

His attitude isnt why we have wars...its from all of the (normal) people who support him...Beyonce included. There are millions of people who act like Kanye on a daily basis, but the difference is they don't have a group of enablers and supporters behind them.

I applaud Beyonce for her actions that night, but she should have stopped being friends with Kanye many many years ago, after one of his other umpteen stupid comments- perhaps the one where he publicly said Bush hates all black people?

Beyonce actually SMILED when he "complimented" her! If I were Beyonce, I would have shown DISGUST! He cheapened the event for HER also! Frankly, he is ONE guy! If he were considered the galactic expert on ALL media and everything related, his opinion STILL should carry FAR less weight than the general public. He would have shown beyonce MORE respect by simply voting PRIVATELY for her and praising her in press to their fans, such as his blog. HECK,, his "praise" in such a forum would not have any proper impact on her sales or popularity. Other than cheapening the event, spoiling taylor's speach, and looking like an idiot, WHAT was he trying to do?

Originally Posted by Doug English

Kanye is a waste of space on earth and he knows it, yet for many years he's had support from from HUGE stars - everyone from Beyonce to the morons at MTV.

Why should he change? He gets exactly what he wants...

That is why I, and a couple others in this thread, said he should be BANNED!!!!! MTV actually hesitated to show some MJ videos at first that had OBVIOUS potential. Eventually, they showed them and they were hits. Maybe they should just IGNORE KENYE! Not play ANY videos, ANY audio, give ANY awards, or let him in any events. If they could almost do it to Michael Jackson, who was obviously FAR better, why not do it to keynes?!?!?

If they did all that, it would hurt Keynes 3 ways! LESS EXPOSURE, LESS ABILITY to be exposed, and MORE exposure for others that may REPLACE him! Hey, Toby Keith had to promote HIMSELF! Kenye thinks he is so great, let HIM try to support himself!

Another thing ALSO! They claim he did this because he was DRUNK! Maybe they should pull his drivers license ALSO! I, for one, wouldn't want to end up in a car wreck because of that idiot!\\

BTW I do NOT believe it! Obama actually called Kenye a "JACKASS" for doing this to taylor swift! He ACTUALLY seemed to care!

Steve

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Michael Ellis

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Doug English

His attitude isnt why we have wars...its from all of the (normal) people who support him...Beyonce included. There are millions of people who act like Kanye on a daily basis, but the difference is they don't have a group of enablers and supporters behind them.

I applaud Beyonce for her actions that night, but she should have stopped being friends with Kanye many many years ago, after one of his other umpteen stupid comments- perhaps the one where he publicly said Bush hates all black people?

Kanye is a waste of space on earth and he knows it, yet for many years he's had support from from HUGE stars - everyone from Beyonce to the morons at MTV.

Why should he change? He gets exactly what he wants...

Well said, and I agree.

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Kay King 15 years ago

What is hilarious is the proportion something stupid like this takes on. Before anyone comments, this is NOT political - but it is hysterical.

It seems when the President heard about this stunt his comment about Kanye was one word - "jackass". Of course someone decided to pass it on and today in my 5 minutes of news viewing a couple dumbheads were debating whether President O should "apologize to Kanye".

I don't watch awards shows but I saw the replay online today - who wears icky jeans and hiker boots to an "event"? I don't think he should have been let in the door in the first place.

kay
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TeddyP

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Doug English

I applaud Beyonce for her actions that night, but she should have stopped being friends with Kanye many many years ago, after one of his other umpteen stupid comments- perhaps the one where he publicly said Bush hates all black people?

Kanye is a waste of space on earth and he knows it, yet for many years he's had support from from HUGE stars - everyone from Beyonce to the morons at MTV.

Why should he change? He gets exactly what he wants...

You stop being friends with people if they make stupid comments? If I did that I would be friendless.

But yeah of course Kanye gets support from huge stars - because he is a huge star and regardless of his horrible personality he is ridiculously talented..so people put up with it.

I am not defending his actions (or past actions) because he is a tool...but I wouldn't doubt his talent.

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whateverpedia

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TeddyP

he is ridiculously talented.

Ha ha ha ha. Are you his agent?

Or just dyslexic, and you really meant to state "he isn't even remotely talented".

Mayhap you entered the word talented in there by mistake and your statement should read "he is ridiculous".

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Karen Blundell 15 years ago

I cannot stand Kanye West...I've always thought he was way too full of himself...his behavior does not surprise me...he has despicable manners...

but there are way more disturbing things happening around the world then what shennanigans some idiot celebrity is pulling.

I'm just saying...
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TeddyP

15 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Ha ha ha ha. Are you his agent?

Or just dyslexic, and you really meant to state "he isn't even remotely talented".

Mayhap you entered the word talented in there by mistake and your statement should read "he is ridiculous".

I know he isn't well liked these days - and that taste is completely subjective, but I find it impossible not to see his talent. He has three great solo albums under his belt already...not to mention all the amazing songs he has produced for other artists.

Yes dude is a pompous crybaby...but he happens to be a talented one, which is why some people put up with his diva like actions.

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Paul Myers 15 years ago

Teddy,

Yes dude is a pompous crybaby...but he happens to be a talented one

This is another example of what I was saying earlier. People classify others based on one thing, and apply that classification to every facet of the person. They don't like his manners, so they deny any other possible positive aspect that may be attributed to him.

That's why hate is so easy. There's no-one about whom you can't find something to dislike. Focus on that, and you have an excuse to dismiss the person out of hand. If you can make it look "bad," you've got your "enemy."

Once you've made someone "the Enemy," it's easy to excuse treating them badly.

Paul
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TimPhelan

15 years ago

Oh God. This is ridiculous. Being rude causes wars? Being generous ends wars?

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Kanye's attitude is why we have wars. Beyonce's is how we get peace.

Paul

By the way, just curious how many who were outraged by this were also outraged by Congressman Wilson heckling Obama?

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Michael Ellis

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Oh God. This is ridiculous. Being rude causes wars? Being generous ends wars?

By the way, just curious how many who were outraged by this were also outraged by Congressman Wilson heckling Obama?

Leave it to Tim to put a racial spin on it. lol

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TimPhelan 15 years ago

Well its pretty obvious by now.

Originally Posted by Michael Ellis

Leave it to Tim to put a racial spin on it. lol
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seasoned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Ellis

Leave it to Tim to put a racial spin on it. lol

HOW is that RACIST!?!?!?!? EVERYONE says "We want one of OURS to be president"! NOW, a black gets in, and people CHEAPEN it by saying that he can do NO wrong and to claim OTHERWISE MUST be RACIST!?!?

Who is the REAL racist!?!?
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Kurt

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Oh God. This is ridiculous. Being rude causes wars? Being generous ends wars?

By the way, just curious how many who were outraged by this were also outraged by Congressman Wilson heckling Obama?

"Outrage" is too strong of a word, but I was put off by both.

Both West and Wilson have a right to say what they said. It's when and where they said it that bothers me.

A person has a right to worship Satan if they wish, but they don't have a right to go to a church and push the minister out of the way, or heckler the minister from the audience.

Kanye stole the attention from Swift, and it wasn't Swift's fault that she got the award. But I have a feeling that she'll be fine.

Wilson also showed total disrepect for the PRESIDENCY, not Obama. There are protocols that our country has followed during our history. I believe the last time someone heckled the President in a similar manner was during the 1800's, and he was caned to death by his peers.

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Paul Myers 15 years ago

Tim,

Oh God. This is ridiculous. Being rude causes wars? Being generous ends wars?

Acting with disdain for the beliefs and feelings of others. Yes. It's not the only cause, but it's the biggest, other than plain old resource conflicts.

And yes, demonstrating genuine empathy and respect is a simple, direct way to peace. Ask any negotiator.

By the way, just curious how many who were outraged by this were also outraged by Congressman Wilson heckling Obama?

Outraged? No. Disgusted? Yeah, with both. Just like I was when the Democrats (as a group) gave President Bush similar treatment in the same setting. And when the Vice President of the United States thinks it's okay to tell a sitting Senator to "F" off. And when liberals call conservatives evil, or when I got an email from RNC chairman Michael Steele, with a subject line that began with "Voice your patriotism" and went on to suggest that liberals are unpatriotic.

And any time Keith Olbermann calls someone a racist based on a wildly unlikely interpretation of some innocuous comment, or Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh open their mouths.

And when I read people suggesting that the moderators of this board are power hungry or conspiring against them to control a market, or listen to some extremist spamfighter say that anyone who doesn't use COI is a scumbag.

You see it every day, from coffee shops to Congress to offtopic. As a country, we've lost the ability to respect the character and intentions of others while disagreeing with them. We've lost all sense of nuance and context, and stopped judging people based on their actions, in favor of condemning them based on how much they look and sound like "us."

Outraged? No.

Just utterly and deeply disgusted.

Paul
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Jem Crowne

15 years ago

You are all right. There are more important things to look at and correct than to worry about the antics of 1 person. Thanks for your comments.

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KimW

15 years ago

Kanye West should be banned from MTV award shows for at least 10 years.
If there were actual repercussions for bad behavior, lets see how many would still do it.

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mbenton

15 years ago

All you guys crying that there is more to worry about, go start your own thread if you don't like it! This thread is about Taylor Swift and the really, really stupid bonehead move Kanye West pulled on her. It's up to each of us what we choose to worry or be concerned about, it's not up to you to tell anyone else!

I hope that man NEVER gets to make another CD or get another award! What a selfish, insincere JERK! Any apology he makes is worthless. Somebody should have pulled the microphone out of his hands and interrupted him, but they had better manners than that miserable introvert!

And I think his music sucks.

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Paul Myers 15 years ago

All you guys crying that there is more to worry about, go start your own thread if you don't like it!

That's the interesting thing about discussions. Sometimes people have different perspectives.

And I think his music sucks.

Not all of those perspectives are well-informed.

Paul
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TeddyP

15 years ago

This is simply Kanye being Kanye - I wasn't surprised at all when I heard this. My brother told me and I instantly responded with "Typical." Dude is just a drama queen. Its getting boring.

I understand the guy has a pretty crazy story of success. He came from nothing, was passed up for ages, finally got to make some beats for Jay-Z...but Jay still wasn't interested in him rapping...no one wanted to hear him rap...he was continually put down..finally records his first album and while recording is in a car accident and gets his jaw broken...

But ya know what - you made it, you proved everyone wrong and you are a HUGE star...so time to get the chip off your shoulder.

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Killer Joe 15 years ago

Jeff, I know what you mean. I have something that goes out for Taylor Swift, too.

What...? I turn the lights out when I put her CD on.
I'm a romantic...

KJ
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Michael Ellis

15 years ago

Kayne (or however you spell his name, don't care) is a complete a$$. They should ban him from the event permanently. As I understand it, he didn't win anything that night. He must be somewhere sobbing. LOL

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Mangozoom

15 years ago

Kanye is what we call in the UK a Plonker.

No way that he should have pulled such a childish stunt and I hope as a result he fades away. His music might have a nice beat but it does not nourish our youth.

Not saying they should listen to Doris Day but idiots like him with foul mouths and worthless lyrics make me cross

John

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Barbara Eyre 15 years ago

Considering that my husband and I don't follow the celebrity worship crowd, or even listen to much of today's so-called "music", we barely knew who Kayne West was ... heck, I don't even know who Tyler Swift is, I think.

Most of the celebs, especially in the music industry, have little to no manners at all. So whatever Kayne did is pretty much par for the course it sounds like. Another words, no shock value. Everyone should have just ignored his comments and him ... perhaps he would have gotten the hint that no one cares for that kind of behavior. Not give him the limelight and such. If you do, you only re-enforce that kind of behavior, if not in him, then in another who is looking for their 15 minutes.
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HeySal

15 years ago

Racial? How is calling someone a liar racial?

Actually Tim - I would've applauded Wilson - if his own backyard was clean, but
it seems he's a bit of a hypocrite. In fact enough so that I would think the comment
was very well paid for.

As far as Pres O. calling Kanye a jackass - I'd say it's the first words he's ever uttered that the whole country has any unanimity about. He was right and it doesn't matter what party people represent - they seem to agree on that one. LMAO.

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KimW

15 years ago

"As a country, we've lost the ability to respect the character and intentions of others while disagreeing with them. We've lost all sense of nuance and context, and stopped judging people based on their actions, in favor of condemning them based on how much they look and sound like "us.""

Probably the best statement I have seen in a long time.

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seasoned

15 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

"As a country, we've lost the ability to respect the character and intentions of others while disagreeing with them. We've lost all sense of nuance and context, and stopped judging people based on their actions, in favor of condemning them based on how much they look and sound like "us.""

Probably the best statement I have seen in a long time.

Too bad it is FALSE!!!!! I really DO base my judgements on perception of character and NOT on the color of the skin. It isn't my fault if people look at someone I speak against that HAPPENS to not be white, and figures it is RACIST. As far as I am concerned, THAT is racist! HEY, I disagree with PLENTY of whites, and agree with plenty of blacks, asians, hispanics, etc...

HECK, does anyone here REALLY know what color ANYONE here is? If not for the voice, and absurdity of the concept, the few that think they met me could even basically have been fooled by a ringer I paid to play me.

HECK, I interview people, and have accepted hundreds of applicants, out of thousands(LITERALLY). Only about 3 were white! I turned down DOZENS of others I thought could be white or black americans. MOST of those hired were indian(from india). Although I wanted to have americans, and native speakers(race was NEVER an issue), I selected based on communication skills and ability. HECK, I once had a TIE! A white american male, and a basically black indian(from india) female. I told the customer that they were roughly equal. Each was weak where the other was strong. They chose the indian female. They CLAIMED it was diversity, but about 1/2 their company was female, and well over half were indian. So WHO was the racist!?!?!?

At one point, someone I selected turned out to be a ringer. When the "real" guy went to the next interview, he was rejected. That was the ONLY person I "selected" that was rejected. When we compareed notes, it was obvious the guy was different.

Steve

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seasoned

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Traffic-Bug

People are worrying about Taylor Swift, Kanye West and Michael Jordan and Megan Fox and Obama when they are unemployed, have no way to pay the next months rent and home facing foreclosure?

You're right THERE! Why doesn't congress, etc... do its job and try to HELP the US. In the end, an apology or sanction ONLY delays things.

I know greenspan is at least SUPPOSED to carry no weight, but he is AGAIN using code that means things like stock market crash, etc... Bernanke is trying to make it sound like the U.S. is FINE!

Two words..... "IT ISN'T!!!!"!!!!

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KimW

15 years ago

There are many definitions of talent. He apparently falls into your, but isn't even close in mine. ( I saw him on Leno the night after the music award show)
But to answer your question, a one time mistake is usually forgivable,it can be chalked up as a mistake , a lapse of judgement, etc etc, but when someone shows a pattern of unaccetpable behavior then yes, it's time to mark them off your friend list.
I would rather have 10 friends with character than 100 without.

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seasoned

15 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

There are many definitions of talent. He apparently falls into your, but isn't even close in mine. ( I saw him on Leno the night after the music award show)
But to answer your question, a one time mistake is usually forgivable,it can be chalked up as a mistake , a lapse of judgement, etc etc, but when someone shows a pattern of unaccetpable behavior then yes, it's time to mark them off your friend list.
I would rather have 10 friends with character than 100 without.

Yeah, I saw at least PART of his appearance on Jay leno. He communicated SO poorly that it is amazing he even considered going on the show. Maybe he rehearsed his little "speech" at the awards ceremony just to get the words out.

And he didn't make a mistake. He INTENTIONALLY went up there. I guess he figured he would make points with beyonce. HEY, he said that racist thing about bush. Maybe he didn't want a white girl winning an award there. BESIDES, even if everyone saw his point, what would they be able to do? There was NOTHING that could fix that as far as anyone is concerned.

Steve

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KimW

15 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Yeah, I saw at least PART of his appearance on Jay leno. He communicated SO poorly that it is amazing he even considered going on the show. Maybe he rehearsed his little "speech" at the awards ceremony just to get the words out.

And he didn't make a mistake. He INTENTIONALLY went up there. I guess he figured he would make points with beyonce. HEY, he said that racist thing about bush. Maybe he didn't want a white girl winning an award there. BESIDES, even if everyone saw his point, what would they be able to do? There was NOTHING that could fix that as far as anyone is concerned.

Steve

My point exactly!

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KimW

15 years ago

Actually it's not false Steve. Its what is called a generalization, as as such is pretty accurate.

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seasoned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Actually it's not false Steve. Its what is called a generalization, as as such is pretty accurate.

I was talking about...

stopped judging people based on their actions, in favor of condemning them based on how much they look and sound like "us."

Too many scream some "ism" without even seeing a valid pattern. I can give you that. And some will vote a straight ticket ONLY because that is what they want. But many DO care about more than that.

Steve
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Paul Myers

15 years ago

Kim,

Actually it's not false Steve. Its what is called a generalization, as as such is pretty accurate.

Don't bother discussing this with Steve at the moment. I've seen this too many times over the years. He's so focused on what he's talking about that it doesn't matter whether it's the same topic as the people he's talking with.

This is very common among programmers, especially intelligent ones. It's an asset in their work, but it does create the occasional conversational awkwardness.

If you could prove that, for example, average IQ scores in Spain had changed by 30 points over a given period, Steve would either claim the statement was false because there were exceptions or argue the validity of IQ tests. Neither of which would be especially relevant to the truth of the statement.

Paul

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seasoned

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Kim,Don't bother discussing this with Steve at the moment. I've seen this too many times over the years. He's so focused on what he's talking about that it doesn't matter whether it's the same topic as the people he's talking with.

This is very common among programmers, especially intelligent ones. It's an asset in their work, but it does create the occasional conversational awkwardness.

Hey, I just hate it when people hint at EVERYONE having something like RACISM. It is like this talk show host yesterday said. YES, he was somewhat conservative, but I DO listen to some rather liberal ones ALSO! He said if EVERYTHING is racist, then NOTHING is! THINK ABOUT IT! And if you keep calling everyone a racist, nobody will listen when someone really IS!

HECK, one person pointed out ONE sign, at the teaparty rally, that seemed to be racist, and against obama. It was one of maybe 10 signs I saw, out of HUNDREDS, that said ANYTHING against OBAMA. He TOTALLY missed the point! The picture basically meant Obama was brought up elsewhere. The O on obama was obamas OWN campaign logo. The C on change was the communist logo. It wasn't racist, it was saying he has different ideas, and his ideas of change are communist.

Hey, some democrats argued mccain couldn't be president because he was born in another country (ON A U.S. MILITARY BASE) http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us.../28mccain.html And SOME, including ME, didn't like him because he was too liberal!

MOST things at the teaparty protest spoke against the bill, healthcare overhauls, or the government in general, and didn't have ANY such pictured imagery. I didn't see a single sign saying a black couldn't lead, or mentioning race relations, or hate groups.

If you could prove that, for example, average IQ scores in Spain had changed by 30 points over a given period, Steve would either claim the statement was false because there were exceptions or argue the validity of IQ tests. Neither of which would be especially relevant to the truth of the statement.

Paul

Well hey, you probably WOULD be testing a different segment, and some claim they are setup to give whites better scores.(Just saying that if I said they were invalid in some way I wouldn't be the first) Of course, some whites get low scores, and some blacks, asians, etc... get HIGH scores. But HEY, you didn't even say if they increased or decreased 30 points!

Steve

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Paul Myers

15 years ago

Steve,

Thank you for proving my point.

My comments were about the general level of civility in discourse in this country, which I find appalling. The Olbermann example was not about race, but about the tendency to demonize those with different views, to the extent of paying no attention to what they actually mean, and interpreting their comments through pre-set filters.

But you can go back to your tirade now. Some of your points are valid. They're just completely irrelevant to the comments to which you responded.

Paul

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seasoned

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Steve,

Thank you for proving my point.

You're welcome. Hopefully I wasn't TOO subtle in saying that was my intent, to a degee at least.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

My comments were about the general level of civility in discourse in this country, which I find appalling. The Olbermann example was not about race, but about the tendency to demonize those with different views, to the extent of paying no attention to what they actually mean, and interpreting their comments through pre-set filters.

Yeah, BESIDES, suppose someone WERE racist, and a grand whatever in the KKK, etc.... If he makes a good point, maybe they should realize that, and act on it all the same. This acorn scandal, for example. They are now claiming that the people ILLEGALLY taped this, etc... Well, there ARE whistle blower laws, and employees WERE fired in spite of that, and the federal government IS giving them a lot of money so, technically, the FOIA laws put into place by Jimmy Carter DO apply, so I don't see how there is ANY case there. If there WERE though, the claims are STILL valid, and should be investigated!

ACORN even has the AUDACITY to claim this is a political smear campaign! How could THAT be! I mean they CLAIM to be for the COMMUNITY(democrat AND republican)! NOW, if they ARE, then a political smear campaign would be stupid and fruitless. If they AREN'T, they they are violating a TON of laws! Again though.... If it is true, INVESTIGATE IT!

But you can go back to your tirade now. Some of your points are valid. They're just completely irrelevant to the comments to which you responded.

Paul

Main Entry: ti·rade
Pronunciation: ˈtī-ˌrād also ti-ˈ
Function: noun
Etymology: French, shot, tirade, from Middle French, from Old Italian tirata, from tirare to draw, shoot
Date: 1802
: a protracted speech usually marked by intemperate, vituperative, or harshly censorious language

Protracted? intemperate? vituperative? censorious?

NAW! I wouldn't say it was THAT bad!

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Paul Myers 15 years ago

Vituperative? Nah.

Protracted? Positively.
Censorious? Certainly.
Intemperate? In style, if not in substance.

Paul

PS: Note the word "usually" in the definition. It is quite often used to describe a protracted and emotional exposition that lacks those other characteristics.
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KimW

15 years ago

I just saw this posted at another forum about the situation,have to admit, it made me laugh my butt off.

"Pretty lame move. I'd like to see him try that crap on Henry Rollins instead of a TEENAGE GIRL."

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LoanShark

15 years ago

It was a bad move on his part. But think about this, how many people know Taylor Swift now versus before? As they say, bad publicity is good publicity. I'm sure they both sold more albums because of it.

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KimW

15 years ago

Originally Posted by LoanShark

It was a bad move on his part. But think about this, how many people know Taylor Swift now versus before? As they say, bad publicity is good publicity. I'm sure they both sold more albums because of it.

How many people knew Taylor Swift? A hell of a lot. She has been my daughters ringtone for ages.

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Michael Motley

15 years ago

Originally Posted by LoanShark

It was a bad move on his part. But think about this, how many people know Taylor Swift now versus before? As they say, bad publicity is good publicity. I'm sure they both sold more albums because of it.

everyone knows about taylor swift. i dont even listen to country music and REALLY dont listen to many teen singers and even I have heard of taylor swift.

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seasoned

15 years ago

Originally Posted by LoanShark

It was a bad move on his part. But think about this, how many people know Taylor Swift now versus before? As they say, bad publicity is good publicity. I'm sure they both sold more albums because of it.

I heard about her quite some time ago. I don't even know off hand which songs she did. If I have heard of her, I suspect most americans that have a TV have. And she wasn't there for publicity!!!!!

Steve

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Michael Ellis

15 years ago

I wish Taylor would have given him a SWIFT kick in the a$$.

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Dave Patterson 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Ellis

I wish Taylor would have given him a SWIFT kick in the a$$.

I somewhat agree...
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KimW

15 years ago

I find it impossible to see his talent. But I am the first to admit that the standards for calling someone talented is extremely low nowadays.

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TeddyP

15 years ago

Personally, I can separate my tastes from recognizing talent. Even if i don't like an artist's personally or even their music, I can still recognize talent.

Kanye has accomplished a whole lot and had his hand in a lot of great music. He also is very successful in terms of artists who rap AND produce their own music. He has sold millions of records for himself and for others. Even had his hand in a number of classic hip-hop records.

I don't think he did all that by fluke.

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Paul Myers 15 years ago

Teddy,

Personally, I can separate my tastes from recognizing talent.

For a lot of people, I like that" means talen, and "I don't like that" means none. And that's fine, if that's all it is. Personal prefernce is what it is, and it's not really subject to judgment.

I find it useful to be able to separate the two, if for no other reason than to see why people like one artist or another. There are groups that perform locally that are only moderately talented musically, but are very popular. They make it fun. Looking at those different parts of the total makes it easier to predict things. That's true in other marketing processes as well.

As for his personal success... I watched Charlie Rose interview Jay-Z after "American Gangster" was released. Rose asked him who he would consider the next "leader" of the hip-hop scene if he left it, and Jay-Z replied that, barring some new player, it would be Kanye.

Jay-Z is nobody's fool. Smart man, with a demonstrated eye for the winners. It was a somewhat qualified endorsement, but still, that was his pick.

If peer recognition is a better indicator for you than personal experience, that one is about as clear as they get.

Paul
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Mukul Verma

15 years ago

She was very shocked to win that award and he took it away from her. Beyounce was kinda in as OMG, What the heck faces, she seem to be stunned and just smile.

With Obama now calling Kenye a 'J@ck A$$', do you think this would have a negative or postive impact on Obama image??

I think it would work to his favor, he is being honest? As non-important as the issue is compared to everything else is the world, can anyone really disagree.

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seasoned

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mukul Verma

She was very shocked to win that award and he took it away from her. Beyounce was kinda in as OMG, What the heck faces, she seem to be stunned and just smile.

With Obama now calling Kenye a 'J@ck A$$', do you think this would have a negative or postive impact on Obama image??

I think it would work to his favor, he is being honest? As non-important as the issue is compared to everything else is the world, can anyone really disagree.

It might be the ONE honest thing he said that "crosses the aisle"! YEP, it only HELPS!

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Paul Myers

15 years ago

Mukul,

With Obama now calling Kenye a 'J@ck A$$', do you think this would have a negative or postive impact on Obama image??

With which audience?

The thing about his comment that's interesting is that the part when he said that was supposed to be off the record. Just general conversation, rather than the interview proper. I don't think he feels that the President of the United States ought to be getting involved in such things publicly.

That certainly points to the sincerity of the comment. I haven't heard any audio of it, but reading the whole comment didn't give me the impression that it was any big deal to him. Just a clear, casual dismissal of something done in bad taste. Those moments say more to me than something that might have been prepped for spin.

Paul

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seasoned

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Mukul,With which audience?

The thing about his comment that's interesting is that the part when he said that was supposed to be off the record. Just general conversation, rather than the interview proper. I don't think he feels that the President of the United States ought to be getting involved in such things publicly.

That certainly points to the sincerity of the comment. I haven't heard any audio of it, but reading the whole comment didn't give me the impression that it was any big deal to him. Just a clear, casual dismissal of something done in bad taste. Those moments say more to me than something that might have been prepped for spin.

Paul

Well, ESPECIALLY after the gates arrest, you can't assume it wasn't prepped, etc... But STILL, this DOES seem to echo what MOST people, white, black, rich, poor, democrat, republican, believe. It at least shows he can put race aside, and speak to decorum, etc... He ought to show that side MORE!

Steve

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Paul Myers 15 years ago

Steve,

You're getting awfully political here.

Paul
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Mukul Verma

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Mukul,With which audience?

The thing about his comment that's interesting is that the part when he said that was supposed to be off the record. Just general conversation, rather than the interview proper. I don't think he feels that the President of the United States ought to be getting involved in such things publicly.

That certainly points to the sincerity of the comment. I haven't heard any audio of it, but reading the whole comment didn't give me the impression that it was any big deal to him. Just a clear, casual dismissal of something done in bad taste. Those moments say more to me than something that might have been prepped for spin.

Paul

TMZ has the video of it - Celebrity Video | TMZ.com

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Paul Myers 15 years ago

Mukul,

TMZ has the video of it - Celebrity Video | TMZ.com

Thanks. That sounded pretty much like I read it.

Paul
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KimW

15 years ago

I'm not sure I agree with you Paul.
First, it seems to me that Teddy P is actually excusing the guy's behavior, not condemning it.You know, "gee the dudes got talent so we can forgive his other problems". I find people tend to do that with sports figures too. My statement would probably follow your logic more, because I am the first to admit I find rappers in general to be talentless. Therefore since I think rap is worthless I'm applying my distaste of it to those who rap.
But at the same time, I don't hate rappers. Hate is a very strong word.
I can honestly say there are only two people in the world that I actually hate.
And neither of them rap.
I too feel I can recognize talent when I see it. And just because I don't like something doesn't always mean something is talentless.
As I said previously, the day after this happened Kanye and Jay-Z and Riahhnan(sp?) were on Leno. The music wasn't bad. Rihanna(sp?) sang and thug posed.Jay-Z and Kanye yelled out some rhymes and thug posed.
If you call that talent then it goes along with what I said, defining talent has reached a new low. ( Course, that doesn't surprise me either in a country that every act that appears on America's Got Talent gets a standing ovation. People don't understand nowadays what a standing ovation is suppose to mean.)

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KimW

15 years ago

I first "heard" the Obama tape. I wondered if it was legit. It apparently is.

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Paul Myers 15 years ago

Kim,

First, it seems to me that Teddy P is actually excusing the guy's behavior, not condemning it.

I didn't read it that way at all. It seemed more like he was explaining why people in the industry don't just dump him over his bad behavior. I tend to agree with that point. Doesn't mean I excuse the behavior itself.

My remarks on the ease of hate were not directed at anyone in particular. Just an expansion of what has become a really persistent theme with me lately. The absurdity of polarization that has arisen in public discourse in the past decade or two.

If someone is being an ass, tell them so. Sure. Be direct. Whatever. Just stay clear on the actual cause.

Not you personally, Kim. That's a general comment.

As far as the talent thing... Okay. If you've listened to him and formed that opinion based on his actual performance, that's a personal opinion, and not one that anyone should argue. No-one is hurt by whatever opinion you form on it, good or bad.

You're judging the performance based on the performance, not his inanity at the VMAs. Not at all the type of thing I was talking about.

Paul
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seasoned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I first "heard" the Obama tape. I wondered if it was legit. It apparently is.

I don't THINK they wanted it to get out, but it really doesn't hurt him. I bet even most hiphop people that are supporters could understand it. So who would lie about it? Anyway, it can from a credible source with witnesses, and they even apologized to Obama for letting it out. So YEP, it's legit.

Steve
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KimW

15 years ago

Paul, I try not to direct things personally and I don't take things personally. I have a pretty thick skin after all these years.
I also know how even the most harmless statments can be interpeted incorrectly.
Its very possible I misunderstood his meaning. Its also very probable that my dislike of rap taints my opinion.

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Kurt

15 years ago

I learned long ago to serperate the "art" from the "artist".

One of my favorite musicians of all time is Leadbelly (Hubie Ledbetter). He's an American classic, and one of the most influential musicians of all time.

He spent time in prison for killing a man, and was pardoned because of his talent. After his pardon, he served time for assault, Before, he served time for assault against a woman.

He wasn't a good guy. But he is of great historical importance from a musical point of view.

Again, we need to seperate the art from the artist. It's our job to teach the kids that Charles Barkley was right when he said he wasn't a role model.

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Kenster

15 years ago

Publicity stunt for mtv and kanye. What erks me the most is that now kanye is getting all this press and his name out there just when he started losing ground a little. Bad press is good press in the music world.

What I hate even more than kanye is that I am talking about him on a forum....c ya

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KimW

15 years ago

Kurt,
I'd like to know, who are the role models nowadays?
(I'm being serious).

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Kurt 15 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Kurt,
I'd like to know, who are the role models nowadays?
(I'm being serious).

Hey Kim,

That's really up to you and your own standards and morals.

My point is, people shouldn't be role models based on their talents, but instead their actions. Parents need to teach their kids the difference between the art and the artist.

Having said this, I wouldn't have any problem telling kids (I don't have any) that Tim Tebow and Pat Tillman are great role models from sports.

It's hard to come up with any role models from music/entertainment...Maybe Will Smith?

What Kanye did was wrong, but not nearly as wrong as what Leadbelly did. Kanye was just very rude in a public setting. Was it any worse than Zsa Zsa slapping an LA cop?

While I agree that Kanye shouldn't be invited to any more music award shows, I think most agree he didn't do anything deserving of jail, unlike many entertainers.
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TeddyP

15 years ago

I wasn't excusing his behavior at all, I brought it up being wrong many times.

I was just responding to someone who wondered why his famous friends weren't dumping him.

As for rap=talentless, well I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it is egregiously wrong. I hate new country music but I would never say country=talentless personally. This isn't the thread to argue that anyways.

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KimW

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TeddyP

I wasn't excusing his behavior at all, I brought it up being wrong many times.

I was just responding to someone who wondered why his famous friends weren't dumping him.

As for rap=talentless, well I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it is egregiously wrong. I hate new country music but I would never say country=talentless personally. This isn't the thread to argue that anyways.

egregiously wrong,eh?

And considering this thread is about a country singer I'd agree this is not the thread to discuss that. You might be egregiously wrong,eh?

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Michael Motley

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TeddyP

I wasn't excusing his behavior at all, I brought it up being wrong many times.

I was just responding to someone who wondered why his famous friends weren't dumping him.

As for rap=talentless, well I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it is egregiously wrong. I hate new country music but I would never say country=talentless personally. This isn't the thread to argue that anyways.

again, this is all personal opinion, but i dont see kanye as being a talented musician. He has skills as a producer, but quite honestly the only person in that industry i see that says kanye is talented, is kanye.

Its not talent that keeps him in the spotlight and the news, its his antics, his news blurbs and quite honestly it appears that a lot of what he does is racially motivated.

When he made his b.s. remarks against a white president, he did so with a white co-host next to him on a national program that he knew wouldnt say anything abou tit. When he threw his fit last year for not getting nominated, it wasn't at any of the black music awards shows that he didnt get awards at, it was at an awards show where primarily white acts were pulling down the awards. When he pulled this last piece of work, he was bullying a 19 year old white female.

Why didnt he show his a$$ during janet jackson's performance, or when beyonce was on stage, or when eminem won

Because he probably knew that any of those other people would have kicked the sh*t out of him or breaking in on any one of those acts would have had him ostracized in his little circle of people in the industry

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madison_avenue 15 years ago

Taylor Swift was completely unknown in the UK before this cause celebre. After this there was article about her in the Guardian(UK major newspaper), which I read and discovered she was an singer who sang country music.

What do they say? There's no such thing as bad publicity.
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TeddyP

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

again, this is all personal opinion, but i dont see kanye as being a talented musician. He has skills as a producer, but quite honestly the only person in that industry i see that says kanye is talented, is kanye.

So he is a skillful music producer but has no talent? I am not sure the two are mutually exclusive. Not to mention that in Rap - a producer is more than an overseer to an album - Kanye makes the actual beats himself in most cases.

As for no one in the industry admitting Kanye has talent - that is definitely untrue. Someone just posted Jay-Z's Kanye comments - very flattering. Considering Jay-Z is one of musics biggest stars...well ever, that is a pretty good testimonial. Not to mention the multitude of people he has worked with in the industry. If they didn't think he was talented I doubt they would look for his production services.

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Jhf14

15 years ago

you can always count on Kanye for making a scene... i have to say though, I went to one of his concerts last year... one heck of a show.

too bad i dont like the guy haha

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KimW

15 years ago

Sorry,
but if you think Jay-Z is one of the biggest music stars ....ever........then you don't know much about music.
Now, he might be one or rap musics biggest stars,but thats a far cry from one of musics biggest stars .....ever...

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TeddyP

15 years ago

Well by saying "one of" I think that I covered my bases.

As for me not knowing about music, I would say this recent achievment places him in the discussion:

From allhiphop.com

Jay-Z Tops Elvis With Blueprint 3

Jay-Z has topped the charts with his latest album The Blueprint 3 and has surpassed Rock & Roll legend Elvis Presley with more #1 albums by a solo artist.

The rapper's 11th album sold over 470,000 copies this week, putting the album in the top slot on Billboard's Top 200 Albums chart.

Jay-Z tied Presley with 10, when his album American Gangster was released in November of 2007.

American Gangster debuted at #1, moving over 425,000 amount of copies during the first week in stores.

The album pushed Jay-Z's the rapper in front of iconic Rock & Roll acts like The Rolling Stones and Bruce Springsteen.

The Beatles have 19 #1 albums and are the only group in music history to have more #1 albums than Jay-Z.

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