Sued for smoking in own home

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Dallas woman fuming over smoking neighbor at complex | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Latest News

Dallas woman fuming over smoking neighbor at complex
In an age when smoking has been outlawed in most public places - government buildings, bars and pool halls - a person's home is one of the few places you can puff in peace.
Lot of people are going to be watching this.
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Woman should be shot. Sick of law suit profiteers. We could clean the country up a lot if we just shot people in the head for initiating law suits for profit. Save resources.

    I hope the people she is attempting to steal from turn it around and sue her for everything she'll ever own for malicious prosecution.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Woman should be shot. Sick of law suit profiteers. We could clean the country up a lot if we just shot people in the head for initiating law suits for profit. Save resources.

      I hope the people she is attempting to steal from turn it around and sue her for everything she'll ever own for malicious prosecution.
      I think such lawsuits are foolish, but if we started shooting people for being idiots, there wouldn't be too many people left.

      Wait, on second thought...



      ~M~
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      • Profile picture of the author KimW
        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        I think such lawsuits are foolish, but if we started shooting people for being idiots, there wouldn't be too many people left.

        Wait, on second thought...



        ~M~
        Yeah, it would be hard to market to the 20 or 30 of us that would be left!
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by KimW View Post

          Yeah, it would be hard to market to the 20 or 30 of us that would be left!
          You got it!

          And thank you for saying "us"

          ~M~
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        I think such lawsuits are foolish, but if we started shooting people for being idiots, there wouldn't be too many people left.

        Wait, on second thought...



        ~M~
        Yep...now you're catching on. Mike - read that article. That woman wasn't inconvenienced by smoke, she's trying to hitch a ride on the free train.

        Okay - if someone smokes in their own place and you don't like it - then move. Period. Don't like that? You know what I hate? I hate people dosing themselves out on pharms then their pharms leak into the public drinking water. I think I'll sue everyone who eats pharms that is hooked to my water supplies. Crazy? It's the same thing. So if that f---king bitch can sue for smoke, I can sue for people eating pharms.

        Where's it end?
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      • Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        I think such lawsuits are foolish, but if we started shooting people for being idiots, there wouldn't be too many people left.

        Wait, on second thought...



        ~M~

        Hahahaha sorry, let me gather myself for a minute, completely taken hostage by fit of giggles... ah there thats better lol.

        Ok, my thoughts on this, the main problem that I see with all these sorts of things is constitutional infringement. We are getting to the stage where rights are being infringed upon constantly, and laws are being made to govern people's actions when common sense should prevail (god forbid). If you fall over a crack in the sidewalk, sue the council because it's their fault that the crack was there and you shouldn't have to watch where your own feet are going lol. Ok, end of rant lol.

        Thats the broad picture for me. How does this relate to this case? Well, in this case you have a woman suing someone else for smoking. Whos rights are stronger? It has been suggested that people should not have to breathe other people's second hand smoke, well who can tell what concentration smoke has after mixing with the air? How much damage can it do to someone in another block? Yes the smell may be unpleasant and this I think is fair. But could they not try and work a sensible way around it? Designating a smoking area? Where do all these things stop and who is to say that someone doesn't have the right to smoke and why oh why do these things always have to end up in court. If the landlord has okayed this and the other tenant doesn't agree, they have the right to move if the conditions there aren't acceptable to them. Now I'm not saying that this should be the case, but hopefully you see my point about rights. The person who is smoking has the right to smoke in their own place surely, and the other person has the right not to have a smoke smelling house.

        The facts on second hand smoke are sketchy at best, so I don't think you can really turn this into a health issue, it comes down to rights. The implications being more legislation- the far reaching implications being the erosion of people's constitutional rights.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by ParisHairdressing View Post

          Hahahaha sorry, let me gather myself for a minute, completely taken hostage by fit of giggles... ah there thats better lol.

          Ok, my thoughts on this, the main problem that I see with all these sorts of things is constitutional infringement. We are getting to the stage where rights are being infringed upon constantly, and laws are being made to govern people's actions when common sense should prevail (god forbid). If you fall over a crack in the sidewalk, sue the council because it's their fault that the crack was there and you shouldn't have to watch where your own feet are going lol. Ok, end of rant lol.

          Thats the broad picture for me. How does this relate to this case? Well, in this case you have a woman suing someone else for smoking. Whos rights are stronger? It has been suggested that people should not have to breathe other people's second hand smoke, well who can tell what concentration smoke has after mixing with the air? How much damage can it do to someone in another block? Yes the smell may be unpleasant and this I think is fair. But could they not try and work a sensible way around it? Designating a smoking area? Where do all these things stop and who is to say that someone doesn't have the right to smoke and why oh why do these things always have to end up in court. If the landlord has okayed this and the other tenant doesn't agree, they have the right to move if the conditions there aren't acceptable to them. Now I'm not saying that this should be the case, but hopefully you see my point about rights. The person who is smoking has the right to smoke in their own place surely, and the other person has the right not to have a smoke smelling house.

          The facts on second hand smoke are sketchy at best, so I don't think you can really turn this into a health issue, it comes down to rights. The implications being more legislation- the far reaching implications being the erosion of people's constitutional rights.
          As for second hand smoke, let me assuage your doubts. it is FACT!!!!!!!! IT HURTS! I may not appear to have lung cancer, etc... yet, but the other stuff is SO debilitating that I might as well have. I don't care WHAT the percentage is! If it is harmful, it is harmful!

          And frankly, I RESENT some IDIOT telling me that because some stupid doctor hasn't found THOUSANDS that admit to being like I am, and has written some report reviewed and approved by other doctors, that I am somehow LYING! I have been this way for as long as I can remember. My mother quit because she couldn't afford buying cigarettes, because I kept hiding them! And they have funds set aside to pay the idiots that smoked and damaged their lungs, but not a PENNY to others that were INNOCENT!

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    She kind of has a point i suppose. If these were seperate houses, i'd agree with you sal, but they are townhomes, connected to each other. Why should she be forced to breath someone elses second hand smoke and her house/belonging stink from smoking when she doesnt even smoke.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sherryr99
      No policy against smoking in your place?
      You don't like smoke? Don't move into a community where its okay for a citizen to still have rights. MOVE INTO A non-smoker community or get your own f-ing house. Don't start trouble Because you knew other people live in your building, no non-policy for smoking and smoking isn't against the law? People always need to control
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I'm with Sal, and if I remember what Kurt said in a different thread,those that file frivolous lawsuits should get the penatly they were trying to get the other person.
    If she sues and loses, let her pay the people she sued restitution. Granted, she probably doesn't have the 6 million she is suing for, but I'm sure she has some figure that would hurt her enough to stop her from bulling BS like this again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    I would think that if anyone were going to be sued, it would be the home builders
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    She doesn't like smoke so she should be shot?

    That's too harsh.

    I don't think she has to bring a lawsuit. Smoke stinks. Yes, you can do it. I used to. But once it starts affecting the air that I breathe - you are taking away MY choice to breathe clean air.

    Why the hell should I be made to live with somebody else's smoke. I used to live in a duplex and the old man on the other side of the wall smoked like a chimney - and he was on oxygen.

    Anyway, OUR side smelled like smoke. That's bull.

    So, one day I yelled through the wall, "why don't you just hurry up and die" Not a nice thing to say, and I felt bad. But within two weeks his wife had him in a nursing home.

    I know, it was the Nazis and Fascists who started out by banning smoking, and if we do it we're only one step away from being herded into cattle trucks.

    Here's what it comes down...

    Why is their right to smoke more important than my right to clean air.

    Get a grip.

    Not every every single subject is about the NWO taking control of everything we do.

    And, no, VISUAL computer porn should NOT be allowed in libraries. That's not violating the Constitution - as stated by the Supreme Court many times. The SCOTUS has Constitutional authority, like it or not, they do.

    I'm glad I don't live in a mental world where everybody, and every decision is designed to get me.

    So...

    No, bringing a lawsuit is too much. Perhaps talking to the neighbor, and reaching a mutual decision would be possible. But I know how some smokers react. As soon as someone says they don't like them smoking, the smoker goes out of their way to expose the complainer to MORE smoke. Sorry, but that's just rude.

    I used to be a considerate smoker. I was never offended if a non-smoker didn't like my smoking. Heck, if I wanted a smoke, I didn't care if I had to go outside, or to my car, or wherever.

    Smoking sucks. It's a bad habit.

    On the other hand, too many non-smokers think it's their place to tell smokers of all the dangers and tell them to quit. I don't like that either, and I don't do it.

    The issue here is that you have two people intruding on each other's enjoyment of life. How can a COURT decide whose life is more important? They can't. Should make for a set of interesting "legal" arguments from the attornies on both sides.

    All the best,
    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author talewins
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post


      Why is their right to smoke more important than my right to clean air.
      All the best,
      Michael
      A Way ago Michael.. Last Saturday my wife and I were visiting a family of 5 in the goat section of the State Fair where they were showing. All of a sudden all of us stopped talking and began glancing around for the source of a horrible smell. Even the goats stopped prancing around and reared up to look around. One of the women went to look and came back with a look of disgust.. "Someone, 2 aisles over there was smoking."

      Over the trash, dirt and goat poop we smelled his smoke.

      We had a work party once to paint this smoker's apartment. We scrubbed as best we could -- then painted. Weeks later the paint ran, smoke debris on the walls was so thick and slick paint would not stick.

      The old song said it best: "Smoke gets in your eyes." Smoke also gets in your eyes, on your hair, on your walls, on your clothes, on your bedding, and that's from two closed-doors over.

      I sure don't agree with no lawsuit.. were millions mentioned? .. I don't agree with ANY sized lawsuit UNLESS there are mitigating circumstances we aren't aware of here, like maybe there is a contract that smoking would not be indulged in there -- or something like that. .

      But this I have observed repeatedly.. smokers want to smear the environment for the rest of us. I look at the youth picking up this filthy habit on purpose and they are on a roll -- when they throw a cigarette down they will grin if they get to watch someone else have to pick it up. At service stations I have watched young people pull away from the trash cans at the pumps, go out to the perimeter of the property, stop the vehicle and empty their ash trays onto the pavement for someone else to pick up. It isn't just the young kids.. You go into a bar that allows smoking and the urinals are full of butts deliberately flung there since the bar opened that morning.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        This is a stupid lawsuit - and it's not about what people "think" of smoking or non-smoking.

        A manager and attorney for Estancia Townhomes, a 52-building community near Prestonwood Country Club in North Dallas, said it's unlikely the Daniels sustained any smoke damage. There is a solid, two-hour fire wall from the foundation to the roof between each of the homes.



        And even if some smell did seep through, the Daniels renewed their lease at Estancia - where smoking is permitted - six months after they say the problem began.
        Fire wall makes it hard to believe smoke "wafts through" - and if it was such a problem, why stay?

        What's next - don't cook cabbage because it stinks? (I don't cook it - but it does stink). Don't cook with curry because it smells funny?

        Stay 6 months - renew - and sue for 6 figures. Not someone I'd want to live next to. When someone pays rent on a property - that doesn't give them control over others paying rent.

        I grew up in a time when smoking was done everywhere you went - and in all those years I only heard TWO people complain about being "allergic". Isn't it odd that when smoking becomes politically incorrect - so many people are suddenly "allergic"?

        I agree it doesn't smell good - and we know it's bad for health. However, many people seem determined to tell others how to live - and to me that's worse than smoking.

        kay
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        • Profile picture of the author solardave
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          This is a stupid lawsuit - and it's not about what people "think" of smoking or non-smoking.



          Fire wall makes it hard to believe smoke "wafts through" - and if it was such a problem, why stay?

          What's next - don't cook cabbage because it stinks? (I don't cook it - but it does stink). Don't cook with curry because it smells funny?

          Stay 6 months - renew - and sue for 6 figures. Not someone I'd want to live next to. When someone pays rent on a property - that doesn't give them control over others paying rent.

          I grew up in a time when smoking was done everywhere you went - and in all those years I only heard TWO people complain about being "allergic". Isn't it odd that when smoking becomes politically incorrect - so many people are suddenly "allergic"?

          I agree it doesn't smell good - and we know it's bad for health. However, many people seem determined to tell others how to live - and to me that's worse than smoking.

          kay
          Ditto! You took the words right out of my mouth.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


          What's next - don't cook cabbage because it stinks? (I don't cook it - but it does stink). Don't cook with curry because it smells funny?
          There's the mans solution...

          Every day, cook something with a really horrid odor. Then the neighbors will stop complaining about the smell of smoke

          I quit smoking 10 years ago. When I did smoke, I used to go outside. Even when I lived alone. It didn't totally get rid of the smell (clothes, etc.) it DID cut it down, and it stopped throwing nicotine stains all over everything (ewww!)
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            From my past experience as a maintenance supervisor at two apartment complexes this sent up a red flag.
            Normally when people pull this kind of crap it is so they can brake their lease without any penalties.
            This sounds like she wants a lot more like a new rent free place and all her furniture redone, tricky lady.
            Like the article said, most people who are sensitive to smoke don't move into apartment complexes that allow smoking.
            So regardless of the smoking allowed rule she moved in anyways because she wanted to live there.
            If a smoker moved into a non smoking apartment would they be able to sue also simply because they wanted to live there?
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            • Profile picture of the author sunlight
              I can totally understand being upset by smoke coming into their home, but in my opinion they are targeting the wrong people, and a lawsuit is the wrong way to go about it. It would be better if they got the home builders to fix the place so that the smoke no longer went into others homes.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          This is a stupid lawsuit - and it's not about what people "think" of smoking or non-smoking.



          Fire wall makes it hard to believe smoke "wafts through" - and if it was such a problem, why stay?

          What's next - don't cook cabbage because it stinks? (I don't cook it - but it does stink). Don't cook with curry because it smells funny?

          Stay 6 months - renew - and sue for 6 figures. Not someone I'd want to live next to. When someone pays rent on a property - that doesn't give them control over others paying rent.

          I grew up in a time when smoking was done everywhere you went - and in all those years I only heard TWO people complain about being "allergic". Isn't it odd that when smoking becomes politically incorrect - so many people are suddenly "allergic"?

          I agree it doesn't smell good - and we know it's bad for health. However, many people seem determined to tell others how to live - and to me that's worse than smoking.

          kay
          A firewall is a thick partition to SLOW DOWN FIRE! It does NOTHING for smoke. And I have YET to see a system that is 100% airtight, etc....

          So you think she should have moved a day or so before sensing the smoke? That is a NEAT trick! PLEASE tell me how to do that!

          And HOW do you figure the SMOKER wasn't telling the NON smoker how to live? She WAS!!!!!!

          Steve
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      • Originally Posted by talewins View Post

        But this I have observed repeatedly.. smokers want to smear the environment for the rest of us. I look at the youth picking up this filthy habit on purpose and they are on a roll -- when they throw a cigarette down they will grin if they get to watch someone else have to pick it up. At service stations I have watched young people pull away from the trash cans at the pumps, go out to the perimeter of the property, stop the vehicle and empty their ash trays onto the pavement for someone else to pick up. It isn't just the young kids.. You go into a bar that allows smoking and the urinals are full of butts deliberately flung there since the bar opened that morning.
        Ok, would just like to point that you are generalising here. I am a smoker, but I am a polite smoker. If I light up, I make sure that I am not lighting up around people who might not wish to be around my smoke ie. non-smokers, and I throw my butts in the bin. Just as with any category of person, there are always those who will give the others a bad name, and just because some people are stupid does not mean that all the people in that category should be tainted by the stupidity of a few.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Yeah, the fact is that she was NOT smoking in her own home. PERIOD!!!!!!! She was smoking in the compartment of a building that OTHERS lived in AS WELL!!!!!!

    Heck, Smoking gives me a headache, hurts my eyes, leaves a bad taste in my mouth, makes me and my clothes STINK, and gets in EVERYTHING! EVEN my lungs(hours later I can smell clean hands, wash my mouth, brush my teeth, , breath hard on them and smell the smoke!) There is really NO way to clean it up! NONE! I have NEVER seen it done! My father smoked in my car ONCE, because I went a LONG distance to get it, he cosigned, and I figured "how bad could one smoke be?". Well, it took THREE YEARS for the smoke to dissipate so that it smelled ALMOST clean. STILL, even when I sold it over a DECADE later, hot days would bring back the smell.

    So why should ANYONE have to put up with that garbage?

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author wirelessgeek
    Must admit I saw this coming. The fact that they are townhouses connected to each other makes it a little more understandable, since it's easier for the smoke to drift from one home to the next. C'mon smokers; if you don't want to quit, at least switch to chewing tobacco. That, at least, won't violate someone else's airspace and bring a lawsuit like this down on your own head.
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  • Profile picture of the author gareth
    Those smoking assholes need their butts kicked and they need to kick their butts

    I hate arrogant smokers polluting my air - i dont blame this lady - she should have shot the smokers in the butt - sue them all to hell.
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Originally Posted by gareth View Post

      Those smoking assholes need their butts kicked and they need to kick their butts

      I hate arrogant smokers polluting my air - i dont blame this lady - she should have shot the smokers in the butt - sue them all to hell.
      how many cars do you own?
      if you own more than one..you're polluting my air...I'm an ex-smoker...I quit cold-turkey 2 years ago and have never looked back...but I'm sick to death of people picking on smokers...yet those same people drive SUV's, run gas snow-blowers, or lawn-movers, and they think they are so morally superior to a smoker...please!
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        My disgust with this and similar stories is the "I'm holier than thou" attitude. To me, it's another example of the entitlement mentality that says everything must conform to what "I" want and "I" shouldn't be inconvenienced. What happens is that it is carried to ridiculous extremes and I think that happened in this case.

        Last week, movers wearing surgical masks loaded trucks with their belongings.

        The Daniels said furniture will need to be reupholstered, artwork restored and closets full of clothing dry cleaned. The bills are still piling up.
        Oh please - are the movers also all allergic? Or could we be putting on a show? She's laying it on a little thick, don't you think?

        Chris Daniel also filed a complaint under the Texas Fair Housing Act, alleging that her sensitivity to cigarette smoke qualifies her for protection set aside for people with disabilities.
        So it seems taxpayers are also going to be on the hook for these "allergies"? Will every public place she visits have to make arrangements for her presence? Or does she just want a check every month?

        This woman is definitely not someone I'd want to know.

        kay
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    I'm not allergic, but it has a nasty way of staying on everything it touches.

    As I said, I don't think there should be a lawsuit.

    If I am a guest in a smoker's home, then I say nothing - it's their home, I'm the guest. But if a smoker comes to my house, they know they have to step outside. No big deal.

    But when BOTH people feel they are at home, then it gets tricky. Who has the right to do what. The smokers has the right to smoke in the privacy of their home. But the non-smoker has the right to keep their air clear.

    The best thing would be to discuss the issue like two adults. Perhaps the smoker could find a comfy place to smoke that was a little further away from the shared wall. And maybe the non-smoker could do something on their own side to reduce the odor from coming through.

    A lot of smokers ARE rude, and they deserve EVERY law that makes it harder for them to smoke.

    A lot of non-smokers ARE rude, and they deserve to be told to get off their high horse and mind their own business.

    For the polite smokers and non-smokers, simple, curteous, and understanding dialogue can go a long, long way.

    All the best,
    Michael "Used to smoke 2 packs a day" Oksa
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  • Profile picture of the author gareth
    Whats a pharm ?
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by gareth View Post

      Whats a pharm ?
      It is used to mean drug, drugstore, or the drug/chemical industry. We call an old style drugstore a pharmacy. TODAY, pharmacy usually refers to a small store that may or may not include a pharmacy, and a pharmacy refers to where controlled or prescription, drugs are dispensed. CVS, for example, is a drugstore, and some of them DON'T have pharmacies. GO FIGURE!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Gareth, in the context in which I used "pharms" - it means pharmaceutical drugs. People are eating them so much now that they are leaching into water supplies so you are in effect taking all the drugs that everyone around you eats when you have a glass of water. They aren't filtering that crap out yet, but in more highly populated areas the ppms just keep getting more concentrated. Wanna do someone elses heart pills or psychological drugs?

    I was serious - if someone can sue me for smoking in my own home, I want the right to sue for eating daily pharms. Keep that crap to themselves and out of MY water.
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    • Profile picture of the author gareth
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Gareth, in the context in which I used "pharms" - it means pharmaceutical drugs. People are eating them so much now that they are leaching into water supplies so you are in effect taking all the drugs that everyone around you eats when you have a glass of water. They aren't filtering that crap out yet, but in more highly populated areas the ppms just keep getting more concentrated. Wanna do someone elses heart pills or psychological drugs?

      I was serious - if someone can sue me for smoking in my own home, I want the right to sue for eating daily pharms. Keep that crap to themselves and out of MY water.

      not even distilling would get that out - right ?
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by gareth View Post

        not even distilling would get that out - right ?
        Distilling solids out of the water is FAR easier than distilling liquids. For liquids, you would have to distill at precisely 212degrees fahrenheit. For solids, any sane temperature would be fine.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Originally Posted by talewins
    But this I have observed repeatedly.. smokers want to smear the environment for the rest of us. I look at the youth picking up this filthy habit on purpose and they are on a roll -- when they throw a cigarette down they will grin if they get to watch someone else have to pick it up. At service stations I have watched young people pull away from the trash cans at the pumps, go out to the perimeter of the property, stop the vehicle and empty their ash trays onto the pavement for someone else to pick up. It isn't just the young kids.. You go into a bar that allows smoking and the urinals are full of butts deliberately flung there since the bar opened that morning.
    Oh hell, I didn't even see this.

    Yes this is so much more disgusting than all those fast food containers floating around our streets - and dirty baby diapers being left at campsites and lakes.


    This is where I get just royally pissed off.

    If you are a non smoker and are fat - don't even approach me with your lard ass and tell me about MY health.
    If you drive a car, use propane, burn wood or charcoal - don't appraoch me about MY smoke.
    If you dump your trash on the side of the road I'd just as soon put a bullet through your forehead than listen to your chemically intoxicated mouth harping at me because I smoke.
    If you take pharms - you need to go find someone else's water supply to pollute.
    If you clean with toxic chemicals, just do us all a favor and quit because you are destroying our planet.

    I'm am just sick of listening to every non-smoker on the planet harping on me about how to run MY life. If you don't like my smoke - stay the F--- AWAY from me and shut your pretentious, self righteous mouth. I don't wanna listen to it. Strap on a backpack and come climbing with me some day. It's okay you self satisfied twit - you can grab a rock anywhere. I'll have a couple of smokes when I get to the top and pick your tired healthy little rear end back up where you landed on my way back down.
    And NO - I'm not gonna carry your backpack for you. Cripes all mighty --get a freakin' life or go buy your own corner of the planet where you can rule as you want to.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      If you are a non smoker and are fat - don't even approach me with your lard ass and tell me about MY health.
      I, for one, get stressed out, and want to EAT. Sadly, most of the "food" available is GARBAGE! So I gained weight! Also, I couldn't exercise much AT ALL until recently. But HEY, I lost 35 pounds, and hope to be at my ideal weight by this time next year. But HEY, if you want to kill YOURSELF, I DON'T CARE!

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      If you drive a car, use propane, burn wood or charcoal - don't appraoch me about MY smoke.
      I drive a car to get around. That is EXPECTED in the US. Propane burns pretty cleanly! Clean wood isn't that bad. I only used charcoal for BBQs!

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      If you dump your trash on the side of the road I'd just as soon put a bullet through your forehead than listen to your chemically intoxicated mouth harping at me because I smoke.
      I agree, and I DON'T do that!

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      If you take pharms - you need to go find someone else's water supply to pollute.
      I don't even take ASPIRIN! I take warfarin and metoprolol NOW because of my aorta.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      If you clean with toxic chemicals, just do us all a favor and quit because you are destroying our planet.
      I try to stay away from that.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I'm am just sick of listening to every non-smoker on the planet harping on me about how to run MY life. If you don't like my smoke - stay the F--- AWAY from me and shut your pretentious, self righteous mouth. I don't wanna listen to it. Strap on a backpack and come climbing with me some day. It's okay you self satisfied twit - you can grab a rock anywhere. I'll have a couple of smokes when I get to the top and pick your tired healthy little rear end back up where you landed on my way back down.
      And NO - I'm not gonna carry your backpack for you. Cripes all mighty --get a freakin' life or go buy your own corner of the planet where you can rule as you want to.
      Why don't YOU move? Nobody cares if you smoke! We just don't want to breath it in, or be affected by fires, etc....

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Sherryr99
      Agreed. No ploicy against smoking in your place?
      You don't like smoke? Don't move into a community where its okay for a citizen to still have rights. MOVE INTO A non-smoker community or get your own f-ing house. Don't start trouble Because you knew other people live in your building and smoking isn't against the law. Grow a f-ing brian non-smoker!
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  • Profile picture of the author ptone
    When you move into an apartment, you know that your neighbors live really close to you. This woman should have realized that her neighbor might be a smoker, especially if the property-owner allowed it. She could have chosen to live somewhere where she didn't share a wall with her neighbor. She could have moved into a house, or even in a rural area if smoking bothers her so bad.

    In my opinion, the whole smokers vs. non-smokers issue all comes down to a matter of choice. If a restaurant allows smoking, fire one up after the meal. The non-smokers can choose a non-smoking restaurant.

    On the other hand, if a smoker wants to go see a Denver Broncos game at Mile High Stadium, he/she should not be allowed to smoke because there is only one place to go see a Broncos game in Denver - there is no other choice.

    Before moving in, this lady should have asked the property owner if smoking was allowed in the apartments. Then she could make her choice whether to move in or not. But, somehow I doubt that's the real issue here...ten bucks says this ain't her first frivolous lawsuit.

    Another ten bucks says that, no matter the outcome of this case, all rental leases will now include language that states that you understand that your neighbor might be a smoker and we cannot be held liable for any discomfort this causes you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sherryr99
      Exactly!spot on nice!
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny Michel
    Hmmm smoke from cars etc. is bad for your health too (and it stinks) so i think, next in line for a lawsued (in usa) is people who has a car, they get a lawsued from one who has a window (and that person has not a car ofcourse) open in hers/hes home and one of the neighbours park/start, hes/hers car out on the street near the open window ...... many complaines about people who smoke but many of these people who complaine drive in cars them self, so what is best/bad ? smoke from a car or a cigaret ...... just my 2 cent.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Johnny Michel View Post

      Hmmm smoke from cars etc. is bad for your health too (and it stinks) so i think, next in line for a lawsued (in usa) is people who has a car, they get a lawsued from one who has a window (and that person has not a car ofcourse) open in hers/hes home and one of the neighbours park/start, hes/hers car out on the street near the open window ...... many complaines about people who smoke but many of these people who complaine drive in cars them self, so what is best/bad ? smoke from a car or a cigaret ...... just my 2 cent.
      Some places in the US DO require private people/companies to get vehicles "smogged". Failure to do so can lead to fines and potentially, in the end, even jail. That has been the case for quite a while though. California does that.

      BTW cars usually MOVE, so the concentration doesn't get that high.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Sal, simmer down.

    Killing people, shooting them in the head?

    C'mon.

    Calling me a lard ass.

    In my opinion, and it's only an opinion, those types of comments are a big part of the problem.

    Why should the non-smoker have to move? Why not the smoker? Why anybody? You are clearly saying smokers have more rights than non-smokers. That doesn't make any sense. And is very surprising coming from you. Someone who thinks everyone has to use natural remedies for everything. Thinks people should take care of their health.

    Maybe people who want to shoot people in the forehead are the ones we need to lock up. You say you don't like the self-righteous attitude of these people, BUT that is EXACTLY what you're doing - just from the other side.

    I don't mean to get so personal, but you normally don't come across as violent. Opinionated, yes. (Which is a good thing) Violent...unacceptable.

    So, take a deep breath and calm down a bit, the stress isn't good for anyone.

    Just sayin'
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Don't tell ME, or ANYONE how to be healthy if you SMOKE.

    Don't tell me what I can eat, what medications I can take, how to exercise, what water to drink, or what type of medical professional to see - IF you smoke.

    I didn't know you were a smoker, but now that I know - EVERY piece of health-related advice you have given or will give doesn't hold water.

    Obviously you must know that smoking isn't good for you. You are introducing all kinds of chemicals into your body, not natural things, chemicals. Surely someone who knows everything about being healthy has to know smoking isn't the best thing you can do.

    I'm not telling you to quit. Smoking is your choice. You can smoke if you like, but don't turn around and tell other people how to be healthy if you choose to do it.

    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    STEVE -

    I don't give a rat's ass if you're fat. Not my problem. But if you're 350 pounds and waddle up to me and get in my face about cigarettes, you are waaayyy out of line - and you wouldn't believe how often that happens.

    As far as fires - use electricity? Cook in your home? I'm worried about how careful YOU are, too. Look at all the Xmas fires that non-smokers cause. Fires are just another cop out. Just because someone smokes doesn't mean they are careless. People who are careless come both in smoking and non-smoking varieties. Look at all the forest fires caused by people driving those little 4 wheelers.

    Yellow walls? I've seen people who don't smoke who are filthy enough I won't go in their homes, too. I never have yellow walls - it's called HOUSE CLEANING. A pig is a pig if they have a stoggie dangling from their mouth or not. I have pet allergies and have been in one hell of a lot of homes that don't clean well enough and the pet dander is an actual danger to my health. So what do I tell them - get rid of your animals?

    The point of my rage is.......
    Number one - I don't see a lot of people healthy enough to tell me how to live.
    Number two - You don't go out of your way to avoid my smoke then don't tell me to go out of my way not to smoke.
    Number three - If you think you don't pollute because you don't smoke, you're just plain stupid.
    Number four - Smokers aren't any more rude than non-smokers are. If you expect people to go out of their way for you when you aren't willing to do the same - well ya already saw my answer to that. If the woman in question in this thread was so damned sensitive to smoke - why the heck didn't she move to a non-smoking community? There are plenty out there.....but no....she wanted to live THERE and then just tell everyone else how they are going to live. That's just plain BS walking and there's no way around it - she's a con aritst and I hope she gets the pants sued off her.

    It doesn't give someone a right to rule YOUR life because they don't like what you do.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      STEVE -

      I don't give a rat's ass if you're fat. Not my problem. But if you're 350 pounds and waddle up to me and get in my face about cigarettes, you are waaayyy out of line - and you wouldn't believe how often that happens.
      Well, I NEVER weighed 350, and don't waddle. Still, why should they put up with YOU making things WORSE!?!?

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      As far as fires - use electricity? Cook in your home? I'm worried about how careful YOU are, too. Look at all the Xmas fires that non-smokers cause.
      Actually, in the US, xmas doesn't make fires more likely for non smokers.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Fires are just another cop out. Just because someone smokes doesn't mean they are careless. People who are careless come both in smoking and non-smoking varieties. Look at all the forest fires caused by people driving those little 4 wheelers.
      Well, cigarette smokers generally have cigarettes and some lighting device, so they must exercise MORE care. If they are JUST as careless as non smokers, they have a GREATER chance of starting a fire.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Yellow walls? I've seen people who don't smoke who are filthy enough I won't go in their homes, too. I never have yellow walls - it's called HOUSE CLEANING. A pig is a pig if they have a stoggie dangling from their mouth or not. I have pet allergies and have been in one hell of a lot of homes that don't clean well enough and the pet dander is an actual danger to my health. So what do I tell them - get rid of your animals?
      I never mentioned yellow walls, but dirty WHITE walls are JUST as dirty. You CAN'T clean up smoke!

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      The point of my rage is.......
      Number one - I don't see a lot of people healthy enough to tell me how to live.
      MAN, what a dumb statement. So NOBODY can bring up imperfections because NOBODY is perfect? So why do you do ANYTHING!?!?!?

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Number two - You don't go out of your way to avoid my smoke then don't tell me to go out of my way not to smoke.
      I go WAY out of my way! Just last monday, I went to the mall. There were a couple of IDIOTS blocking the way and smoking cigarettes. I held my breath for better than a minute to wade through it. Inside, I was huffing and puffing to get air back into my lungs. I RESENT having to do that. I guess YOU think I should circle around until I see a clear door, or just go home, huh?

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Number three - If you think you don't pollute because you don't smoke, you're just plain stupid.
      By SOMEBODYS view, we ALL pollute. What's your point? HEY, I HAVE to breath! I have to do other things any creature here does.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Number four - Smokers aren't any more rude than non-smokers are. If you expect people to go out of their way for you when you aren't willing to do the same - well ya already saw my answer to that.
      YEAH, and you just declared that first sentence to be MYTH!

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      If the woman in question in this thread was so damned sensitive to smoke - why the heck didn't she move to a non-smoking community? There are plenty out there.....but no....she wanted to live THERE and then just tell everyone else how they are going to live. That's just plain BS walking and there's no way around it - she's a con aritst and I hope she gets the pants sued off her.

      It doesn't give someone a right to rule YOUR life because they don't like what you do.
      You ever really think about what is involved in moving?

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HeySal
    If the woman in question in this thread was so damned sensitive to smoke - why the heck didn't she move to a non-smoking community? There are plenty out there.....but no....she wanted to live THERE and then just tell everyone else how they are going to live. That's just plain BS walking and there's no way around it - she's a con aritst and I hope she gets the pants sued off her.

    It doesn't give someone a right to rule YOUR life because they don't like what you do.

    "Seasoned:
    You ever really think about what is involved in moving?"

    Exactly, so why move twice? Like the question that was asked:Why didn't she just move into a non smoking living situation.
    By the way, I don't buy her story for a minute. Just another money loving freeloader imo.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by HeySal
      If the woman in question in this thread was so damned sensitive to smoke - why the heck didn't she move to a non-smoking community? There are plenty out there.....but no....she wanted to live THERE and then just tell everyone else how they are going to live. That's just plain BS walking and there's no way around it - she's a con aritst and I hope she gets the pants sued off her.

      It doesn't give someone a right to rule YOUR life because they don't like what you do.

      "Seasoned:
      You ever really think about what is involved in moving?"

      Exactly, so why move twice? Like the question that was asked:Why didn't she just move into a non smoking living situation.
      By the way, I don't buy her story for a minute. Just another money loving freeloader imo.
      Yeah, I don't know the specifics there. One person CLAIMED they were ISOLATED, but to TRULY do that would require DIFFERENT ductwork, a DIFFERENT AC/HEATING unit, a SEALED common wall, etc... I have NEVER seen such an animal, or even heard of it, and it gets rid of any benefits from having them separate, so I don't buy THAT. Still, I am arguing what I know about how it can proliferate, be hard to clean up, hurt people, etc.... I doubt any of us could cover the SPECIFICS. We haven't been there, and articles are likely to be tainted.

      Steve

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Steve -- you have become so contrarian that you will argue anything to the point that you completely lose site of the logic involved. Is all you talk for is to see if you can WIN?

    YES - non-smokers cause fires. ESPECIALLY at Christmas. Don't take my word for it. GO to your local fire department and ask them. ALso find out it wasn't smoking - it was DRINKING that caused the accident.

    Stupid statement eh? NO IF you are not perfect you are not free to nag me to the point I want to put your teeth down your throat about MY imperfections. Exactly who the f--- do you think you are that I have to listen to your view of my life if I don't wanna hear it? I'd think you'd better spend your time reflecting on your own faults than to make yourself into a nagging fly over mine - I'll swat a fly that nags me.

    Counterdictory? No - I go out of my way in many places at many times to keep my smoke out of other people's faces - I wish that they would be as considerate about going out of their way not to run their mouths at me about what they think about my smoke. I hate to be nagged and at some point non-smokers all decided it was their right to act like one massive group of PMSing lunatics over smokers. For every point you can make against smoking, there is a point I can make against part of your life, too. I don't do so because it isn't my business. I wish everyone would consider that their first point of argument when flapping their gums at me about my habits.

    Yes I KNOW what it takes to move. I do so now and again. The point remains - the bitch moved into a SMOKING complex and if she is sensitive to smoke, she should have been seeking NON-smoking communities instead of barging in then trying to take over. She's a CON artist Steve - and there is no way we need to bend one freaking inch for a CON artist no matter what their angle is or over what predicament. I'd make one big bet she knew she was going to try to sue them when she moved in there to start with. People that hate smoke don't seek out smoking facilities without alterior motives.
    Steve - I HAVE moved because I couldn't stand the neighbors. I'll do it again in the same circumstances. Oh wait -- maybe I'll just sue them instead. After all, isn't that the American way? I sure hope I Like my new neighbors music - and kids - and pets. Maybe if they smoke fatties I can get them ARRESTED - now that's REAL power over someone's life! Why spare the chump change when I can have that MUCH CONTROL over someone else!

    I'm thinking you are extremely glad you don't live where I live right now -- they hate people who put their noses in everyone else's cracks. We have a non-smoking bar in town. Wanna go to the smoking one across the street and bitch about smoke? You'll probably carry your teeth to the non-smoking one real fast. You're right to take ours ends at the town line out here - just as it should be.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I'm thinking you are extremely glad you don't live where I live right now -- they hate people who put their noses in everyone else's cracks. We have a non-smoking bar in town. Wanna go to the smoking one across the street and bitch about smoke? You'll probably carry your teeth to the non-smoking one real fast. You're right to take ours ends at the town line out here - just as it should be.
      First of all, I don't think I changed here. I HATE smoke. I ALWAYS have! And for GOOD REASON!

      And YEP, I am GLAD I don't live near you. I ALSO don't put my nose in ANY cracks!

      MOST areas that ban smoking allow bars to continue with smoking and MOST places that can claim bar status DO, and then allow smoking. They lose my business FAST! Don't think I didn't think about reporting all the jerks in LA when people had a $1000 fine, and businesses had a $5000 fine. I DID think about it. NOT to get mney, but to PUNISH. Alas, I didn't.

      And people say I'M ACERBIC!?!?!? I couldn't hold a candle to YOU there!

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Steve -- you have become so contrarian that you will argue anything to the point that you completely lose site of the logic involved. Is all you talk for is to see if you can WIN?
      That's not me AT ALL! All I want is to be left alone. I don't care what anyone buys, sells, says, thinks, etc.... I just don't like it when it intrudes.

      Jokes are made about fish swimming in their own toilet. Well, in a way, smokers dump waste into the air. And talk about contrarian, how can ANYONE argue about "global warming", pollution, the disabled, welfare, etc.... while they smoke a product that...

      1. warms the air while releasing various toxins, INCLUDING CO and CO2, and soot!
      2. emits a product that lowers the amount of oxygen and is an irritant to people with various respiratory problems, including asthma.
      3. costs a lot of money, and causes residue that can even raise cleaning bills.

      HECK, I once saw a BEAUTIFUL home. It was inexpensive. I almost CRIED when I left because I didn't buy it. WHY? Because it STUNK of cigarettes. I almost turned away the moment the door opened and had to keep it short.

      AND, about the costs, I knew a mother on welfare that CONSTANTLY chain smoked! he not only polluted the environment, hurt her daughter, and made everywhere she went STINK, but it was paid for with tax payer dollars!

      BTW I had TWO chain smoking parents. I lived through a time where there were almost NO restaurants that provided for non smokers. OH, they would have a "non smoking section". t was usually away from any air source, and about as secure as those boxes mimes are always trying to get out of, or less nessman's office! If they ever REALLY protected against the smoke, people would suffocate since any air had to go through the smoking sections and thus was contaminated.

      So what is wrong about my wanting cleaner air? And it is NOT denying smokers rights! THEY can go to a closed room and smoke! I CAN'T do that to breath! HECK, many airports now have isolated and sealed areas for SMOKERS! Even those that aren't sealed are set off from others so much that they can avoid the smoke. It is one of the intrusive laws I actually like, and wanted for essentially all my life! I KNOW I have wanted it since I was about two, I probably wanted it since birth.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author patJ
    I couldn't care less about people smoking as long as it doesn't in any way enter my apartment/house. Of course, i wouldn't sue anyone. I would give them a chance to stop smoking in their apartment. If they didn't obey, i would cook the smelliest thing imaginable and put it outside their door. Ideally, i'd put some dog**** in their ventilation system.

    Smoke all you want, just don't pollute my air.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by patJ View Post

      I couldn't care less about people smoking as long as it doesn't in any way enter my apartment/house. Of course, i wouldn't sue anyone. I would give them a chance to stop smoking in their apartment. If they didn't obey, i would cook the smelliest thing imaginable and put it outside their door. Ideally, i'd put some dog**** in their ventilation system.

      Smoke all you want, just don't pollute my air.
      MAN, did I ever consider that! I don't mind skunks! I have actually thought about having them in such places. HEY, their warning stomp sounds cute! 8-)

      Wild skunks warn predators and competitors by stomping their front feet and raising their tails in full bloom. Skunks will run directly toward a threat and stop (sometimes within inches), then stomp and hiss or squeal. If the enemy doesn't heed the warnings the skunk will turn and spray. Spotted skunks even do handstands as a warning. Domestic skunks use the same tactics, often as a form of play.

      Skunks make various sounds as a warning to enemies and in play. Skunks can screach like a pig and whine when mad, chip like a bird to get attention (especially from other skunks), wimper like a dog when sad or freightened, grumble and grunt when upset, and they even lip-smack when contented. Every skunk will stomp, sometimes very forcefully, when they are upset.
      MAN does that sound cute. Maybe you can remove that stripe and trick someone into thinking it is a dog or cat, like pepe le pew! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pep%C3%A9_Le_Pew 8-)

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    By the way - 60% of lung cancer cases in the US are NON SMOKERS.
    A majority of Japanese men smoke - but it is very rare that one gets lung cancer.

    You are being led in this issue because it's an easy issue for them to build fear and loathing - it's even been done before and people are still falling for it. One rift through REAL research will show that the backing for this issue is propaganda and not solid based reality - yes, people do die of smoking, but if you check those stats you will see that they are rigged - almost anything that a smoker dies of they will find some darned way to relate it to cause of death.

    Once the public is led by the nose far enough that the Gov is allowed to outlaw smoking in your own residences, you will find out what the real motive was. Once this precedence is set, there is NOTHING that they can't tell you you can't do in your own home. You are allowing them to sucker you right out of your freedom of privacy and autonomy. Did people learn thing one from WWII - and I'M the one that was called stupid? I'll save my laugh for the last one, thanks. That's fine and good with me - I like to win, too. But when gov can tell me what to do in my own home, what'd I win?

    People better wise up and start choosing their battles very carefully and do it very fast.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      By the way - 60% of lung cancer cases in the US are NON SMOKERS.
      A majority of Japanese men smoke - but it is very rare that one gets lung cancer.

      You are being led in this issue because it's an easy issue for them to build fear and loathing - it's even been done before and people are still falling for it. One rift through REAL research will show that the backing for this issue is propaganda and not solid based reality - yes, people do die of smoking, but if you check those stats you will see that they are rigged - almost anything that a smoker dies of they will find some darned way to relate it to cause of death.

      Once the public is led by the nose far enough that the Gov is allowed to outlaw smoking in your own residences, you will find out what the real motive was. Once this precedence is set, there is NOTHING that they can't tell you you can't do in your own home. You are allowing them to sucker you right out of your freedom of privacy and autonomy. Did people learn thing one from WWII - and I'M the one that was called stupid? I'll save my laugh for the last one, thanks. That's fine and good with me - I like to win, too. But when gov can tell me what to do in my own home, what'd I win?

      People better wise up and start choosing their battles very carefully and do it very fast.
      NOW you are saying smoking cures cancer!?!?!?!?! WOW! NICE TRY! Frankly, I hate smoking for what I don't need ANYONE else to confirm to me. ALSO, MANY non smokers, like myself, were CONSTANTLY exposed to cigarette smoke, so such stats as you present are WORTHLESS!!!!! I see an INSTANT 1:1 correlation on MY concerns, so they are FACT! Nobody is there to misreport, skew, etc...

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Forget who's right and wrong. Doesn't matter.

        If people would just use some rational thought, we wouldn't have half the
        problems we have.

        You want to move into an apartment?

        Find out the apartments policies BEFORE you move in. I hate cigarette smoke
        so the first thing I am going to ask is if smoking is permitted in the apartment
        complex. If it is, I don't move there because I know there is a chance that
        I'll be living next to somebody who smokes.

        Same with anywhere I go, whether it's a restaurant, casino, anywhere. I
        find out what the policy is BEFORE I go. I will not eat in a restaurant
        without a no smoking section. I will not go to a casino that doesn't have
        a no smoking section. I won't go to a movie theater that allows smoking.

        If what the person is doing is not against any law or ordinance, then I
        have no right to tell others how to live their lives. This is what way too
        many people forget.

        I live in my own home so I don't have to worry about cigarette smoke and
        people who come to my home know before they even walk in that smoking
        is not permitted in my home. If they don't like my rules, they don't have to
        come. Same as if I were going to visit somebody else. I ask if they smoke.
        If they do I politely tell them that I can't be in a smoking environment. I
        have walked out of my own in-laws home because they smoke.

        Too many people are too quick to tell too many other people how to run
        their lives.

        I control what I can control. And if that means I have to pick just a few
        places where I can live and visit, then so be it. But until laws are changed,
        I have no right to tell anybody how to live.

        As much as I hate cigarette smoke, this person hasn't a leg to stand on
        legally. I seriously doubt that this lawsuit will go through.

        Simple solution (okay, maybe not so simple) is to start looking for
        apartments that don't allow smoking and being moving procedures.

        Bottom line is this. If the lawsuit doesn't go through (and in the meantime
        this person STILL has to put up with the smoke) then the person has one
        of two options.

        1. Stay there and deal with it.
        2. Move.

        There are no other choices. It's pointless for any of us to get so worked
        up about this. Honestly, I'm a little disappointed at some of the things
        that have been said in this thread, but I'm not going to get into that
        because these days I've sworn to keep my nose clean.

        But folks, some of us need to calm down and look at this logically and
        realistically.

        And that is coming from somebody who would divorce his wife in a second
        after 25 years of marriage if she ever took up smoking.

        Yes, there are always options.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          And that is coming from somebody who would divorce his wife in a second
          after 25 years of marriage if she ever took up smoking.

          Yes, there are always options.
          MOST men would NOT divorce that quickly. There is alimony, etc....

          YEP, there are ALWAYS options! You could even slit your throat or drink hemlock. SURPRISINGLY, FEW ever do!!!!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    You are giving yourself some excellent advice.
    It doesn't give someone a right to rule YOUR life because they don't like what you do.
    Then why so quick to to tell others what to do in other threads?

    People better wise up and start choosing their battles very carefully and do it very fast.
    Exactly right. So why is EVERYTHING a battle for you?

    Don't get mad, I'm not trying to be a jerk. I think I'm detecting a lot of hypocrisy. I admit, I could be wrong, but that's the impression I'm getting.

    I just think you may be happier, and less stressed if you followed your own advice.

    I'm not calling you out - because I'm human too.

    Of course each side thinks they're right. The difference is that I don't think I'm MORE right than you.

    Again, I know how this post sounds, but it is meant in to sound like it's a caring, friendly tone - not mean, not condescending.

    All the best,
    Michael
    Signature

    "Ich bin en fuego!"
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    The 60% doesn't tell us enough.

    The following are just examples, to illustrate how meaningless 60% as a raw number is.

    Let's say 5% of people get lung cancer. Or, roughly 15,000,000

    Let's say 80% of the people are NON-smokers. That's 240,000,000

    Of the 15,000,000 that get lung cancer 9,000,000 are NON-smokers.

    Okay, that means that 6,000,000 ARE smokers. BUT only 60,000,000 people smoke.

    So, looking at smoking and non-smoking populations as a whole...

    10% of smokers get lung cancer - using my sample numbers.

    BUT

    Less than 4% of smokers get lung cancer.

    See, before the 60% number means ANYTHING, we need to know what % of the population smokes, and what % doesn't.

    AND

    It doesn't end there.

    Maybe the 60% non-smokers are LIVING LONGER to get it another way.

    So, if smokers die 10 years EARLIER from lung cancer and other causes, it stands to reason that at (for example) 80 years old there are simply more NON-smokers alive.

    All the best,
    Michael
    Signature

    "Ich bin en fuego!"
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  • Ok wow people are misunderstanding and blowing things up in this one. Seasoned, I was not disputing that inhaling smoke is bad for you, thats why I don't smoke around people who are non- smokers, I move away from them. What I was wondering is how concentrated it is in the air over distance- ok?

    Furthermore, why would it end up with people having to move? I find it ridiculous that this has gone to court in the first place and that these people couldn't come to some sort of arrangement. My point was that you can't sort out whose rights are stronger here. The smoker has the right to smoke and the non-smoker has the right to a clean air and a clean smelling house.

    Why do so many people feel that they are more important than others, that their viewpoint is the only viewpoint? These people are both in court because neither of them was willing to respect the others' right and come to an accomodation. The non smoker moved into a smoking complex and the smoker could have found a different place to smoke- I don't smoke inside my house, and its not such a hassle going outside. If its too cold to go outside, then don't smoke that cigarette!

    And here too, people are attacking one another and ranting on about their ideas and not listening to anyone else. It never ceases to amaze me, that as human beings we are capable of so much yet we constantly bring ourselves down by being selfish and listening to the baser sides of our natures. It is not hard nor does it cost much to be considerate, to listen and to be kind.
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    • Profile picture of the author Johnny Michel
      Originally Posted by ParisHairdressing View Post

      Ok wow people are misunderstanding and blowing things up in this one. Seasoned, I was not disputing that inhaling smoke is bad for you, thats why I don't smoke around people who are non- smokers, I move away from them. What I was wondering is how concentrated it is in the air over distance- ok?

      Furthermore, why would it end up with people having to move? I find it ridiculous that this has gone to court in the first place and that these people couldn't come to some sort of arrangement. My point was that you can't sort out whose rights are stronger here. The smoker has the right to smoke and the non-smoker has the right to a clean air and a clean smelling house.

      Why do so many people feel that they are more important than others, that their viewpoint is the only viewpoint? These people are both in court because neither of them was willing to respect the others' right and come to an accomodation. The non smoker moved into a smoking complex and the smoker could have found a different place to smoke- I don't smoke inside my house, and its not such a hassle going outside. If its too cold to go outside, then don't smoke that cigarette!

      And here too, people are attacking one another and ranting on about their ideas and not listening to anyone else. It never ceases to amaze me, that as human beings we are capable of so much yet we constantly bring ourselves down by being selfish and listening to the baser sides of our natures. It is not hard nor does it cost much to be considerate, to listen and to be kind.
      Great you hit the nail on the head
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by ParisHairdressing View Post

      Ok wow people are misunderstanding and blowing things up in this one. Seasoned, I was not disputing that inhaling smoke is bad for you, thats why I don't smoke around people who are non- smokers, I move away from them. What I was wondering is how concentrated it is in the air over distance- ok?

      Furthermore, why would it end up with people having to move? I find it ridiculous that this has gone to court in the first place and that these people couldn't come to some sort of arrangement. My point was that you can't sort out whose rights are stronger here. The smoker has the right to smoke and the non-smoker has the right to a clean air and a clean smelling house.

      Why do so many people feel that they are more important than others, that their viewpoint is the only viewpoint? These people are both in court because neither of them was willing to respect the others' right and come to an accomodation. The non smoker moved into a smoking complex and the smoker could have found a different place to smoke- I don't smoke inside my house, and its not such a hassle going outside. If its too cold to go outside, then don't smoke that cigarette!

      And here too, people are attacking one another and ranting on about their ideas and not listening to anyone else. It never ceases to amaze me, that as human beings we are capable of so much yet we constantly bring ourselves down by being selfish and listening to the baser sides of our natures. It is not hard nor does it cost much to be considerate, to listen and to be kind.
      I understand, and understood. I was simply saying that even what is probably a very small amount IS bad. That isn't OVER distance in an OPEN space though. In an apartment hall, it can end up filling the WHOLE HALL!!!!!! In the outside, in front of a mall, it may be a swath of only a few meters, ASSUMING THEY AREN'T WALKING.

      There IS an arrangment, but smokers WON'T do it! Don't believe me? Look at heysals comments!

      Breathing IS important! Personally, I never heard of a smoking apartment. And HECK, non smoking are RARE! I got THREE "non smoking" rental cars that were smoked in! I have been in "non smoking" rental rooms that were smoked in. All you need is for ONE "guest" to SMOKE! You CAN'T clean it up.

      Steve
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      • Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        I understand, and understood. I was simply saying that even what is probably a very small amount IS bad. That isn't OVER distance in an OPEN space though. In an apartment hall, it can end up filling the WHOLE HALL!!!!!! In the outside, in front of a mall, it may be a swath of only a few meters, ASSUMING THEY AREN'T WALKING.

        There IS an arrangment, but smokers WON'T do it! Don't believe me? Look at heysals comments!

        Breathing IS important! Personally, I never heard of a smoking apartment. And HECK, non smoking are RARE! I got THREE "non smoking" rental cars that were smoked in! I have been in "non smoking" rental rooms that were smoked in. All you need is for ONE "guest" to SMOKE! You CAN'T clean it up.

        Steve
        Ok, I understand your frustration and you have valid points. What I object to is your generalisation here. I'm a smoker, and I do respect other people's right to clean air. If I light up, I move away from any nearby non smokers, I live with my dad and I don't smoke inside his house, I have a 3 year old child and I don't smoke around him and I bin my butts. There are considerate smokers out there, and there are also a lot of inconsiderate smokers out there, just as there are many considerate drivers and many inconsiderate ones etc etc. Don't paint us all with the same taint because you have seen rude and inconsiderate behaviour from some.

        Also understand that we are all rude sometimes, we are all selfish sometimes and sometimes think- the person who did something to annoy you might have done it because they had a really bad day that day and just weren't thinking. I'm not saying this excuses the behaviour, but sometimes people who are usually unfailingly polite can be rude under pressure, for example.

        This world would be a happier and better place if we all stopped thinking about ourselves sometimes and thought of others. So yes, those smokers who throw their butts around and don't care who is breathing their smoke, I think thats inconsiderate. I think its inconsiderate to smoke in non smoking places.

        I also think its hypocritical for people to condemn others for smoking giving the reason of polluting the planet if they also pollute. Its hypocritical to condemn smokers for abusing their health if you are not healthy. Its fair however to complain about having your own air polluted by inconsiderate smokers. My view is that I am at this stage addicted to smoking, I do plan to give it up when I live in less stressful circumstances but thats irrelevant, and its ok for me to pollute my body but its not ok to pollute other people's.

        And to get back to the actual subject- I repeat, its all about rights. The smoker has the right to smoke in their own place if allowed by the landlord and the non smoker has the right to clean air and a clean smelling house. If the non smoker knowingly moved into a smoking complex, then they have no case. This is not talking about the people who smoke in places they shouldn't etc, this is talking about a person who moved into a complex where smoking was allowed.

        Can we agree on that? Or are there going to be further debates? Might I add that I love debates? Lol :-P *cheeky grin*
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by ParisHairdressing View Post

          This world would be a happier and better place if we all stopped thinking about ourselves sometimes and thought of others. So yes, those smokers who throw their butts around and don't care who is breathing their smoke, I think thats inconsiderate. I think its inconsiderate to smoke in non smoking places.
          Well, I appreciate that!

          Originally Posted by ParisHairdressing View Post

          I also think its hypocritical for people to condemn others for smoking giving the reason of polluting the planet if they also pollute. Its hypocritical to condemn smokers for abusing their health if you are not healthy. Its fair however to complain about having your own air polluted by inconsiderate smokers. My view is that I am at this stage addicted to smoking, I do plan to give it up when I live in less stressful circumstances but thats irrelevant, and its ok for me to pollute my body but its not ok to pollute other people's.
          GOOD! For what it is worth, cigarette smoke, that doesn't go into peoples lungs, and is OUTSIDE, either eventually falls to the ground, or is like most other pollution, and is recycled. MY concerns have been MY immediate environment, and MY body.

          Originally Posted by ParisHairdressing View Post

          And to get back to the actual subject- I repeat, its all about rights. The smoker has the right to smoke in their own place if allowed by the landlord and the non smoker has the right to clean air and a clean smelling house. If the non smoker knowingly moved into a smoking complex, then they have no case. This is not talking about the people who smoke in places they shouldn't etc, this is talking about a person who moved into a complex where smoking was allowed.
          IF they KNOWINGLY moved into a place where they would be next to a smoking person and/or where smoking was ENCOURAGED, YEAH, you're right! I have never seen a place where it was ENCOURAGED though!

          Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Arguing with comments posted in 2009...and telling OTHERS to grow a brain?
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
      ***
      One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
      what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Good points, Paris.

    When I smoked I was considerate of others. AND I didn't take offense if someone mentioned I should quit or that my smoke bothered them.

    As you said, their are polite smokers, and rude smokers. At the same time there are polite non-smokers and rude non-smokers. Smoking outside is usually okay. But let's look at a mall. Where I go, the smokers all have to smoke outside, BUT they smoke right in front of the doors - there is no way for me to get in without walking through a haze of smelly smoke.

    Does it bother me? Yes. Do I say anything? Nope, not at all. I only have to put up with it for a few seconds.

    BUT, here's the thing. You're not going to the mall to smoke. If you are having such a nicotine fit, then go to your car, or wear a patch - OR go without a cigarette for 10 freakin' minutes, it won't kill you.

    I know there are plenty of polite smokers out there. It's the ones who think THEIR right to smoke is all that matters that are a problem.

    Here's an example.

    Many years ago when I worked for someone else, the boss took everyone out to a local restaurant. Well, a co-worker was smoking as we approached the eatery. We were going to sit in the smoking section to keep the smokers from whining all during the meal...

    As we got up to the door there was a sign that said "Now Smoke Free". Well, my smoking co-worker didn't like that, but he put his cigarette out. This is where it gets good. When the hostess asked us how many were in our party, he answered - AND then he blew SMOKE IN HER FACE. He had taken a big puff before walking in.

    Not cool.

    Do ANY of the smokers here defend that practice?

    Any?

    Okay, so he does this thing with the smoke. I order a Reuben sandwich, and that same smoking co-worker said, "Those things STINK!". Keep in mind, nobody had mentioned the SMELL of his smoking. He was being serious.

    I think this perfectly illustrates the problem with rude smokers. Their self-righteousness far outweighs that of any non-smoker I've ever seen.

    Go ahead and smoke, just don't make me smoke by default.

    All the best,
    Michael "Yes, I used to smoke a lot" Oksa

    p.s. Needless to say, that was the last time the boss treated us to a meal.
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    • Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      Good points, Paris.

      I know there are plenty of polite smokers out there. It's the ones who think THEIR right to smoke is all that matters that are a problem.

      Here's an example.

      Many years ago when I worked for someone else, the boss took everyone out to a local restaurant. Well, a co-worker was smoking as we approached the eatery. We were going to sit in the smoking section to keep the smokers from whining all during the meal...

      As we got up to the door there was a sign that said "Now Smoke Free". Well, my smoking co-worker didn't like that, but he put his cigarette out. This is where it gets good. When the hostess asked us how many were in our party, he answered - AND then he blew SMOKE IN HER FACE. He had taken a big puff before walking in.

      Not cool.

      Do ANY of the smokers here defend that practice?

      Any?

      Okay, so he does this thing with the smoke. I order a Reuben sandwich, and that same smoking co-worker said, "Those things STINK!". Keep in mind, nobody had mentioned the SMELL of his smoking. He was being serious.

      I think this perfectly illustrates the problem with rude smokers. Their self-righteousness far outweighs that of any non-smoker I've ever seen.

      Go ahead and smoke, just don't make me smoke by default.

      All the best,
      Michael "Yes, I used to smoke a lot" Oksa

      p.s. Needless to say, that was the last time the boss treated us to a meal.
      No Mike, I don't defend behaviour like that at all, I think that that person's behaviour was disgusting and inexcusable. Definitely agree that there are problems with people like that. Especially talking about your food stinking after! How hypocritical is that?? I can't stand hypocrisy (and yes I'm probably sometimes hypocritical myself, we all are, but I do try to make sure that if I condemn something I'm not doing it myself). It boggles the mind that people like that don't realise how their behaviour makes them look to other people, or perhaps they just don't care?
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  • Looks to me like the issue is not smoking, it's property damage as a result of the smoke in a connected housing unit.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by InternetMarketingIQ View Post

      Looks to me like the issue is not smoking, it's property damage as a result of the smoke in a connected housing unit.


      BINGO! Where a persons property includes their body, and corruption in some way is considered damage! THAT IS IT!!!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Steve - this thread is 2 years old. The post right in front of yours is a spammer who pulled the damned thing back up to post a link. Some idiots don't know the difference between spamming an old blog post and an old forum post. I'm not reading back over 2 year old news to find out what the hell I was responding to when I wrote that post you just quoted.

    I reported the spammer - so that post is gonna disappear and people are going to get confused reading this one.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Steve - this thread is 2 years old. The post right in front of yours is a spammer who pulled the damned thing back up to post a link. Some idiots don't know the difference between spamming an old blog post and an old forum post. I'm not reading back over 2 year old news to find out what the hell I was responding to when I wrote that post you just quoted.
      Well, it seemed I didn't really respond to that well. But yeah, that is the problem with spammers and being in google. They look in google for keywords, find a thread here, and post. 8-(

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Steve - I don't think the use google or anything.

        They come to a busy forum and think they can slide their links into an old thread - and don't realize it bumps the thread (or don't care). It's been a problem here recently as so many 2-3 year old threads come back to life and have people arguing over old news stories.

        But - then - there are members here who sell WSO's and explain on their blogs how to get "juice" from forums.
        Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author Sunfyre7896
    6 million dollars? Is she serious? Her life is not worth 6 million if she's living in some town home.

    The worst that can happen is that the smoker gets evicted if it's in the leasing agreement. If not, then the other woman should be s.o.l. It's her own private residence. If the other woman doesn't like it then she can move. She can eve sue in small claims court, but something this substantive is just asinine.

    I wouldn't doubt that she'll win though, like the man that sued because his hand got run over by a car tire because he failed to see someone sitting in the car as he was trying to steal the car's rims or the woman that sued the motor home company because her motor home crashed off the highway. Apparently going to the bathroom isn't allowed when you're by yourself cruising at 70 m.p.h. and that wasn't in the instruction manual.
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  • Profile picture of the author Spock1
    Well, second hand smoke has been proved a health hazard. Smokers should procure one or more of those nifty air filters that collect and process the air.
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