I'm Entering A Song Contest...UPDATE (SONGS SUBMITTED)

by 93 replies
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Hi All:

There are very few things in this world that really mean a lot to me. I'm
talking about the really big, deep in my gut things.

My family
My business (for them)
My music

I've been writing songs seriously since 1984. Since that time, I have
managed to get just 2 songs published by song publishers and nothing
ever recorded. So while I haven't been a total failure (some people never
get a publishing deal) I can't say I've been a success.

The last time I placed in a song contest was 1987. I got an honorable
mention.

Since then, the few times I've entered...nothing. My scores on songs
ranged from 6 out of 10 to 7 out of 10 stars. A little better than
average.

Well, I thought I'd give it one more shot.

I'm entering The Great American Song Contest

Great American Song Contest! International songwriting contest for songwriters, lyricists and music composers everywhere.

The deadline is Oct 30, but I can enter online by sending MP3s, so there
is no hurry.

Before I ask my favor, let me fill you in on my own personal opinion
about my writing. Yes, I've been doing this long enough to be able to
be fairly objective about my ability. I'm going to list what I have going
for me and against me in regard to this contest.

What I Have Going For Me

1. I'm going up against other amateurs. You can't have any success in
this business to enter this. So that puts me on an even playing field.

2. I'm classically trained, so I do know music. How much that will help
in a "commercial" context, I don't know. But it can't hurt to know what
you're doing.

3. I think I can recognize a "hook" after listening to the radio for 45 years.

4. I have great recording equipment so I can get my songs to sound not
too far from studio quality.

What I Have Going Against Me

1. I'm a lousy lyricist and I know it. For some reason, I have a terrible time
trying to write lyrics. All the criticisms I've gotten on past songs submitted
to contests and publishers have been on the lyrics. I'm a little better today
than I was years ago, but honestly, not much. I don't have the flair for it.

2. I don't have a commercial singing voice. I have a decent voice but it
doesn't have that "sound".

3. I'm not a great musician, so I can't cover up a "so-so" song with some
slick playing. Hey, let's not kid ourselves...presentation is everything.

4. I am out of touch with what's popular today in almost all genres. This
has actually always been my problem. My music has, many times, been
said to sound like it comes out of the 60s. Of course it does. That's my
biggest influence and I can't change that.

So How Can YOU Help Me?

Naturally, having written over 700 songs, I can't possibly ask you or
anybody to listen to all of them. Ultimately, I have to go through my
collection and decide on a few to send. What I'd like the members here
to do is listen to about 5 songs that I've decided to submit. Is it possible
I've left my best song on the cutting room floor because I personally
don't think it's that good? Of course it is. But that's the way it goes.

Starting tonight I am going to start producing and uploading these songs
to YouTube. When they are all uploaded, I will come back to this thread
and post the links.

Any feedback you can give me will be greatly appreciated.

Let me add this.

I'm a big boy. I'm passed that age where if you told me my music sucked
I'd run off in a huff. I can take, and actually expect, criticism of my
music. If you think it sucks. If you think I'm wasting my time, be honest
and tell me. You'll be doing me a favor. Yes, I know taste in music is
subjective, but something that's really bad is going to be just that, really
bad.

I will also be posting the lyrics online so you can read them if you can't
get them all from the songs. These will, most likely, be my downfall in
this contest.

Anybody who gives me some really great feedback, analysis, whatever,
is going to find a surprise in their PayPal account. Yes, I am going to
make this worth your time if you're REALLY helpful.

And that doesn't mean, "Hey Steve, love your songs...you should win
a Grammy."

That's not going to cut it. I'm talking about some serious feedback.

Naturally, the musicians here will probably have the most to say, but that
doesn't mean casual listeners can't be a big help. After all, YOU buy this
stuff when you hear it on the radio. YOU'RE the target market.

So let me have it...I can handle the truth.

Anyway, that's it. I'll come back to this thread and post an update when
the songs are all uploaded.

Thank you for your time...this means a lot to me.

** EDIT ** Songs Have Been Uploaded. Lyrics Are Under More Info

You can list them from most to least favorite. That will help me decide
which ones to send.

YouTube - Die For You
YouTube - There Goes Another One
YouTube - Hey Suzy
YouTube - Hang On Irene
YouTube - Cant Rock In Alcatraz
YouTube - Rise Of Nations
YouTube - Drop Dead Blonde
YouTube - Panic At The Disco
**UPDATE** I have just submitted these 5 songs to the contest along
with my $135 entry fee LOL.

Drop Dead Blonde
Can't Rock In Alcatraz
Hey Suzy
Panic At The Disco
Stuck Into Drive

Wish me luck.

Oh, and thanks to all of you for your wonderful feedback especially CD
inspiring me to write Stuck Into Drive.

If it wins, I owe you a piece of the check.
#off topic forum
  • [DELETED]
    • [1] reply
    • Thanks Tina, you're a doll. Besides, if you listen to music and have an
      opinion, you could very well help more than you realize.
  • Sorry, but none of this really makes a whit of difference. You can have a professional quality sound studio for about $300 these days. I've heard only one of your songs, but it was not exactly great.

    Don't get me wrong, it was good. But someone in this contest is going to be great. All of your pros are small and readily available to ALL the participants.

    On the bright side, none of this matters either.

    Your single biggest challenge is to decide you don't give a rat's arse about any of your detractors. Music today is angry and belligerent. Seek your inner teen. Stop caring what people will think!

    You are timid. Your singing voice doesn't suck, but you bury it under layers of effects because you know it isn't great.

    Cut it out.

    Billy Joel is a mediocre singer, a mediocre songwriter, and a mediocre musician. But so much stuff today SUCKS that Billy Joel looks amazing.

    Let your voice ring out clear. Let it come through. Your voice DOESN'T SUCK. It's honest. It's true. Let us hear it. Your voice is NOT BAD. Let it out. Let us hear your lyrics, clear and bright and HONEST.

    You are a talented guy. If I were to make specific criticism of your music, it's that you can't mix. You don't blend your music properly. You put the treble way too high on your lead parts, and you mix them too loud.

    Mix subtractively. Take all your channels, and put them up where they stay in the yellow zone most of the time with occasional forays into the red. Then put your master up to the point where it does the same. Now, whatever is TOO LOUD - turn it DOWN, then adjust the master. Don't raise ANYTHING except the master volume. Same with your EQ; don't raise anything - only reduce. Take out what sounds wrong, and you're left with what sounds right.

    I'll have more for you when I can hear your actual song candidates.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies

    • Now THAT'S the kind of feedback I'm looking for.

      CD, you wanna be my manager?

      When I used to do piano based stuff and ballads, my voice was out there
      and it made people want to scream for the exists. So I've been doing more
      upbeat and even harder rock stuff because, let's face it, you don't have
      to be a great singer for that stuff, though some rock bands have had
      some great vocalists (Freddie Mercury, Paul Rogers, etc.)

      I'd submit some of my ballads but my voice can't pull off stuff that has to
      have that kind of emotion. So my ballads sound dull and uninteresting, not
      that I'm the greatest ballad writer either. But it's certainly something that's
      easy to mix. What you've heard online is all my rock power pop stuff and
      yes, it was purposely recorded that way.

      Maybe one day I'll upload one of my clean recordings...if you can stay
      awake long enough to listen to them.

      But thanks for the very refreshing feedback.

      For what it's worth...I never claimed to be a pro.
      • [1] reply
    • Okay, now that we've got the Off Topic's Simon Cowell, I guess I'll have to settle for playing Paula Abdul




      Frank
      • [1] reply
  • I only have a very basic understanding of music and audio mixing so don't know if this is much help.

    It is always hard to judge ourselves objectively but your voice is not as bad as you think. I found the music being mixed louder than the lyrics irritating and I couldn't understand a lot of the lyrics. I would love to hear these songs again with the instrument volume lowered so you can hear the lyrics properly.

    As for my favourites:
    1. Rise of Nations is my favourite - I like the more edgy sound and from what I understood of the lyrics, I liked those as well.
    2. There Goes Another One - I like this but can't really explain why, I can tell it is going to stick in my mind and I'll start humming it at some completely random moment.
    3. Drop Dead Blonde - Again like the edgy sound and I think the vocal range is better suited to your voice.

    Least favourite - Can't Rock in Alcatraz - tempo of the song and lyrics doesn't seem to match the subject (too cute).

    With Hey Suzy it sounded like your voice was struggling to reach the high notes in places.

    CDarklock is right - forget what anyone else thinks (or what you think) and let your obvious passion for the music show through in your singing. We all want to listen to music that makes us feel.

    You are definitely good enough to have a shot at the contest!

    Manda
  • Hey Steven,

    I also like Rise of Nations best.

    But I think it could be better...And my opinions would apply to almost all your songs.

    Drop the "lead" guitar. It doesn't add anything. Your raw sound is pretty good and the lead gives me "mixed messages". Same with your voice...It seems your lead and vocals are trying too hard to be purty.

    You need to sing with more passion. It seems to me you are afraid to take a chance with your voice. You've basic music is "punkish", but you add a layer of pop to it with the lead and vocals, that detracts from your best stuff.

    Try singing Rise of Nations like you mean it...With an aire of anger and a bit of shouting, trying to get people to pay attention to your words. Have a few shots of scotch, smoke a couple of cigars, then set the alarm to wake you up a little early. Now try singing Rise of Nations...You need a little gravel in your voice.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • At times you sing in a sort of faux punkish rock style, but your voice is too delicate for that style. You need a song choice which emphasizes the vulnerable quality your voice has. It is more of a pop voice rather than rock voice. It's a voice which needs a certain type of song.

    I thought Hey suzy was definitely the best song though.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Stephen, I've seen you mention that you are a musician a few times, but didn't realise you bring the rawk :p Seriously though, I don't know why but I imagined you made classical/jazz music. I have been home recording for the last 8 or 9 years or so, and am fortunate enough to have a wife that is not only a fantastic singer, but also writes simple, catchy songs

      CDarklock nailed quite a lot of what I thought when I played the songs. You should definitely lay off the effects on your vocals - I used to be over zealous when it came to adding reverb, chorus and such and the end result is that it just makes a vocal sound muddy. I'm not sure if the room you record your vocals in is treated, to be honest it doesn't sound like it. Or perhaps the mic you are using has an affect. Your voice itself is decent, and you sing with some confidence. I just wish I could decipher the lyrics a little better - cleaner sounding vocals would definitely help with this I think.

      Your songs seem to often follow the same 'template', namely the following:-

      -Dirty guitar intro
      -A few lead guitar lines
      -Verse/chorus/verse/chorus etc
      -Lead guitar solo
      -Chorus

      etc etc

      There's nothing wrong with this(in fact, most of the songs I write and produce follow almost the same format as each other too) but I think you should make sure to try and mix it up a little more, especially with your intros. It's very easy to fall into arrangement and structure habits when writing songs, but this can have a danger of making all songs sounding similar.

      Going into the mixing and production again - I'm not a fan of the drum sounds you use. They sound a little too electronic and robotic. I'm not sure what you use, but I highly recommend you invest in a program like EZ Drummer or Jamstix. I use the former, and not only is it super easy to use, it sounds very realistic Your recorded rhythm guitars sound like they're lacking in air too at times. I'm not sure what you're using to record them, but I think this is something you should definitely look at.

      In terms of contests, I personally think your songs presented the way they are here are a little too dated sounding. Now there's nothing wrong with this, but in my experience of contests nearly all the winning songs and entries that do well are both very well produced with crystal clear mixes and also sound very current. Don't let this bother you though, I write and record music that sounds pretty dated, simply because my taste is very much 70's and 80's classic rock orientated. Your songs to me would sound right at home in the early 80's.

      OK, all that said(I hope I don't come across as too critical) - you write very catchy songs, with some nice melodies You definitely know how to write a hook, whether it be a catchy chord progression or a chorus melody. I think you just need to work on bringing the best out of the songs a little more, in terms of production. There's no doubt though - you are a very good songwriter and a talented musician This thread has sidetracked me from my IM work :p so I'm gonna leave it there, but if you like I can give you a short review/rating for each of the songs you posted. Whatever song you enter into the contest, good luck - but don't take these kind of things too seriously. I used to do this until I realised that the most mainstream, best produced and 'current' songs always came out on top. I enjoy the music I enjoy(both listening and playing wise) and I don't care what anyone else thinks
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • Hey Steve,

    Worked as a radio DJ almost 20 years including 6-7 years as a Rock radio dj, so here's what I really think about your tracks:

    Die for you: Great track. Some issues with "tempo" at the beginning but a great tune. I can imagine it in one FUELTV show with some sick waves 6 foot surf.

    Drop Dead Blonde: Great tune again. Great hook.

    You should record a solid 4 trax demo and send it over to some producers. Take a shot.

    P.S.: Some of your tracks could easily get into a surf/skate/bmx movie soundtrack.
    P.P.S.: Drop Dead Blonde has definitely great hooks. Nice!!
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Daleron is right - you need more feeling in your playing. Your solos are very teenage, very sixties. It's like you're afraid to play across the strings.

    If you'll pardon the presumption, I assume you can read tablature; play around with this one - it's a pretty simple A minor pentatonic riff in the style of David Gilmour or Jimmy Page, so it's got the vintage feel you want, but it goes all the way across the strings. It starts out with a C major feel, but modulates down to A minor as it goes.

    Code:
     
E--------8-5-------5----------------------------------------
B------8-----8-5-----8-5------------------------------------
G--5-7-----------7-------7-5---7-5--------------------------
D----------------------------7-----7-5-7-5------------------
A------------------------------------------7-5-3-5-3--------
E-----------------------------------------------------5-3-5/
    If you mess around with this and improvise around the general idea of it, you should be able to come up with some of your own leads in the process. Try holding a note here and there, add some bends, let the music flow. Your tempo frequently feels too low, like you're holding back when you'd really rather go a little faster.

    You know, you don't have to start with anything approximating your intended final sound. You can play the basic chord progression on bass or piano, then layer and overdub and throw entire tracks away as you go. Think of it like scuplture... you throw a few blocks together, then carve and refine each of them until it's the exact shape you want. It took me a long time to learn that.

    Crubalo is spot-on in his criticism of your drum sounds, but that's a retro feel IMO... which seems sort of what you're looking for anyway. You've got no bottom, which is going to put off a lot of judges; work on adding some more bass. Doesn't have to boom, but fill it out a little.

    And in a pretty strange dissent, I find Panic At The Disco to be the best of the bunch. The rest of them just sound too similar, too formulaic. PatD sounds like you actually had some fun with it, and the vocal processing sounds more ironic than out-of-place.
    • [2] replies
    • CDarklock

      My solos ARE 60s. Read my above post and a lot of this will all make
      sense to you.

      Yes, I can read tabs but I'm a so-so guitarist. I can't play very fast at all
      and just to get out what I do get out, it takes me MANY takes. Having
      a broken finger on my left hand that I can't use anymore doesn't help.

      As I said in my above post, I'm a so-so musician at best.

      Thanks, I'll look this over.

      That's pretty much how I do record my songs. I never know where they're
      going to end up. And this all has to do with interpretation. What I "hear"
      as being "appropriate" most people say, "What were you thinking?"

      It's how my mind works...such as it is.

      Read my remarks on the drums in the above post. Yeah, not my best
      strength.

      That song was actually recorded a little differently than the others. I took
      my Roland Digital Sequencer and programmed a ridiculously fast drum
      track BPM 250. I then just let the beat dictate the song. The guitar part
      on that, which isn't a guitar at all, is a keyboard synth guitar sound played
      at one quarter speed real time and then sped up. I could never play that
      lead for real. Not in a million years.

      My friend Paul, when he came over to hear my latest CD, said that Panic
      was my best tune ever. Others have agreed as well. Personally, I think
      that lyrically, it's solid and my 2nd favorite of my tunes overall. I won't
      tell you my favorite because you'll laugh.

      Panic I'm definitely submitting because it's probably the best song I've
      done, performance wise.

      We'll see.
      • [1] reply
    • Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for this.

      I sat down with acoustic and started playing this right off the PC
      screen.

      Probably inspired one of the best songs I'm ever going to do.

      Problem is, the melody (already have the whole thing in my head) is
      slightly out of my vocal range on a bad day. It hits a G above middle C,
      which, on a good day, I can hit. Today...no way. I guess I can wait
      until my voice is stronger but those good days are few and far between.
      Oh a great day, I can hit an A.

      But where I am stuck...as always...is how to arrange this thing. I don't
      know what sound to go for. This could fit in so many different genres.
      Yes, it's generic enough (but catchy) that it could fit rock, punk, pop
      and a whole lotta other things.

      And this is where I usually mess up. The interpretation just doesn't "mesh"
      with what people expect. And that's my 60s "battling with my 70s, 80s
      and 90s" mind doing it's psycho dance. Heck, I once turned "I Could Have
      Danced All Night" from My Fair Lady into a rock tune...don't ask.

      Anyway, thanks for the tabs. They definitely sparked something.
      • [1] reply
  • Steve, if the rules go by the lyrics and melody you have some good tunes in there to enter the contest.

    As a radio DJ i would play at least 2 of them with a smile on my face knowing my listeners will digg them while driving or working.

    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Question, are you DJing on the radio today? If so, I can send you a copy
      of anything you like and maybe you can sneak them on the air.

      I know some stations don't allow that, but a lot of the college stations will
      play anything.
      • [1] reply
  • "I suspect it's "Can't Rock in Alcatraz." I don't know why, but that one feels like you really enjoyed it."

    I'm thinking it's Hey Suzy.
    • [1] reply
    • Wow Kim...you are good.

      Yes, that's my personal favorite. What ever made you think that?
      • [1] reply
  • I agree with both CD and Tina, your voice is ok for some of your stuff, but you might want to try a professional singer.honestly, there are a lot of people that have made it that relaly don't have a singing voice, but their intensity and emotion comes through so you forget about the actual voice.
  • Steven, it's not about confidence. It's about awareness.

    Most people suck. They're not good at anything, and they never will be.

    You don't suck. You're not most people.

    That doesn't make you great, but if you come into someone and say "hey, this is pretty good... it's not great, but it's pretty good" - well, they're not going to stomp all over you, because you're probably right.

    There is a VAST difference between the peculiar brand of insanity where people who suck think they're great, and your own situation - where you're not great, and you know it, but you simply don't seem to have figured out that being great is the end destination of a journey through being not great.

    You seem to expect that one day, you'll look at your work and say "hey, this is great!" - but that's not going to happen. You will ALWAYS want more than you can deliver. That's the curse of being an artist. When you're good enough to compare yourself to one band, you'll start comparing yourself to another one.

    Ten years ago, I couldn't sing. Today, I don't suck. That's a massive accomplishment. But if I sat around saying "I know my limitations, and that's all there is to it" - I would be sitting here today knowing I couldn't sing. Limitations exist to be transcended. Be proud of what you've done, even if you're not world-class.

    Do you know what world-class takes? Seven years. You drop everything else in your life and do one thing for seven years, you'll be world-class. And - correct me if I'm wrong - but isn't that exactly what you did with article marketing? Drop everything and do only that for several years?

    You can do that with anything. Anything. If you really want it, just drop everything else and do that for seven years. And if you can't... well, you won't be world class. Be okay with that. Hardly anyone is world class. There's no shame in not being world-class.
    • [1] reply

    • I wish you could see the big smile on my face after reading this. You are
      so dead on the mark with this that it's not funny. Actually, it is funny.

      Yes, this about sums it up. In my eyes, I'll probably never be good enough
      until I seriously sit down (just like I did with article marketing) and do
      nothing BUT this. And that means studying composition, examining other
      songs in excruciating detail, practicing 8 hours a day, studying home
      studio engineering until I can get any kind of sound I want, and so on.

      Believe me, I know. My mother practiced piano from age 3, 10 hours a day.

      She became a concert pianist.

      Believe me, I know what it takes.

      Considering that until 2008, I hadn't gone near a keyboard or guitar in
      over 5 years (all these songs were written in the past year) I'd say that's
      something. I thought I had lost it altogether until I sat down and started
      to play again.

      That was the result of the 20 years prior.

      Yeah...I know what it takes.
      • [1] reply
  • I still think Drop Dead Blonde is the most commercial and could be a hit in todays market.
  • Steve. I know nothing about music except what I like. I can't tell you anything in techinical terms -- all I can do is be an audience.

    This is my take:
    Your songs sound a bit bubble gummy and I think it's because of your vocal insecurity and the use of too much "canned" stuff instead of real players.
    I'm agreeing with getting rid of the chorus effect and balancing the sounds more....but I also think you should grab a real drummer. It sounds much like what my dad has on his organ - set the beat and play. There's no alteration in the beat in places where you would expect a drummer to get a little edgy and go into a mini-tangent even for a few beats. Voice isn't the only place you want emotion, the music needs some too and I think you can do it. It sounds like you just need to let your hair down a bit and forget there's someone listening and just go for it.

    I think you have an interesting voice, but you don't seem to feel easy enough about just wailin' and railin' - conservative to a fault. I'm betting you could give one huge high pitched zap here and there if your undies weren't too tight. LOL - scuse the expression but I think you get what I'm sayin'. Cut the reserve parachute and just free fall. You're too good to worry about crossing the boundries. Conservative doesn't do you justice. Forget models and who's doing what or has done what -- Do Steve, uncensored, unbridled. Then find a drummer who kinda fits Steve but looses control just a tad here and again.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • I agree.



      You're a musician, for cryin' out loud.

      KJ
      • [1] reply
  • Hey Steve, I'm posting this youtube because this guy's voice reminds me a lot of yours. It's not a strong voice, as you contend yours isn't - but he sure isn't afraid to use it. Now you sound a lot like him to me, so why the heck you are worried about your voice is something that I just don't "get".

    YouTube - Stabbing Westward - What Do I Have To Do?
  • Good Luck, Steve. We're cheering for ya. Um.......are you gonna give sigs for free to Warriors or should we be keeping an eye on the WSO forum?
    • [1] reply
    • I promise if I win and become a big star all Warriors will get autographs free
      of charge.
      • [2] replies
  • Wow didn't know you were into music. I'm a singer myself.

    I wish you good luck!
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