The theory of it is scientific trash. However, they did do a statistical survey on thousands of people years ago and found that there was a way above average statistic on people being born with Saturn in their chart above the skyline, in their star-sign at birth. These people predominantly were athletes by profession.
I used to run a little hippy/type New Age Store back in the eighties and offered Computer Character Astrology readings based on peoples time/date and place of birth.
As the report printed it came up on the screen I learned to review it very quickly and picked out a few key things that tended to repeat a lot. I was usually able to tell the person something about themselves, right out of the blue. Like, naming their profession or describing an ailment they had. I had a lot of successes with my observations.
One woman in particular, when the reading was scrolling up, I noticed that there was a predominant amount of references to books playing a large part in her life. When it finished I said, well ,based on that, you are either a librarian or run a bookstore. She said: "I am the manager of Truro City Bookstore."
So, I found it interesting to go through the accepted mechanics of the calculations to build a chart and the meanings that had been worked out for planets/moon and suns positions in the sky at birth and beyond
Having said all that, the sun and the moon are the only physical bodies that could have any physical influence on us.
the human mind filters information ..so like the law of attraction....astrology just puts people in a mindset to look for information or events they probably wood filter out and not register as happening
so is it really the time you where born.. or is it genetics ..upbringing and environment that determine personality and behaviour ..and where identical twins ..separated at or soon after birth.. tend to have similar interest in many cases ..
That's what it is supposed to do. I'm afraid many are on the blink. Too, many!
well i agree.. the mind was never meant to store large amounts of information ..on what the kardashian's are doing more simple stuff like where that tasty plant you found a month ago was so you can harvest it again.. and cooking recipes
so the blink is filtertering out important stuff and focusing on what won't matter..ever
True, as Lanfear has said, the sun and moon affect us physically, but since our minds are higher dimensional constructs, it does open the door to all planets affecting us emotionally.
I believe in horoscopes, and I often read them on https;//horoscopelovemoney.com/ They are pretty interesting to me, and I like them a lot, I have to say. I think you might like that service for you too, take a look there
I was in a bar years ago, and after a conversation with a woman...she told me that there was a better than 90% chance that I was a Capricorn, and she as right. I asked her how she knew, and she said something like "You keep scanning the room, evaluating everyone, judging them. You listened to me talk for awhile before you said anything. You were evaluating what I was saying to determine the best approach. Your thinking is methodical...and cold". Frankly, the first thought I had was that she looked at my drivers license somehow. My second thought is that she had met me before (or even dated me) and I simply forgot about her.
So, I thought about what could make people born in January (or late December) share traits.
I came up with how old they are when they start school. What the cut off day is to determine what year you start going to school...are you the youngest or oldest group in class? I wondered if that mattered.
If you are in sports, does your age (within the school year) change how well you do?
When I was 13-14 I was the tallest kid in my class. That went away soon after...but these are formative years.
Does being born in a certain part of the year matter as far as being affected by the weather? The change of seasons? How does the season affect your mother before you are born? Does a Winter birth mean you got slightly more testosterone from your Mother than if you were born in July? Less?
Frankly, I can't remember the cutoff birthday determining what year kids start school...or Little League...or Boy Scouts. But maybe that has an effect, a slight one.
If you are born in January in the southern hemisphere, is there a slight effect in the opposite direction, because the seasons are reversed?
I was in a bar years ago, and after a conversation with a woman...she told me that there was a better than 90% chance that she was going to call the police due to my inappropriate behavior.
I was in a bar years ago, and after a conversation with a woman...she told me that there was a better than 90% chance that I was a Capricorn, and she as right. I asked her how she knew, and she said something like "You keep scanning the room, evaluating everyone, judging them. You listened to me talk for awhile before you said anything. You were evaluating what I was saying to determine the best approach. Your thinking is methodical...and cold". Frankly, the first thought I had was that she looked at my drivers license somehow. My second thought is that she had met me before (or even dated me) and I simply forgot about her.
So, I thought about what could make people born in January (or late December) share traits.
I came up with how old they are when they start school. What the cut off day is to determine what year you start going to school...are you the youngest or oldest group in class? I wondered if that mattered.
If you are in sports, does your age (within the school year) change how well you do?
When I was 13-14 I was the tallest kid in my class. That went away soon after...but these are formative years.
Does being born in a certain part of the year matter as far as being affected by the weather? The change of seasons? How does the season affect your mother before you are born? Does a Winter birth mean you got slightly more testosterone from your Mother than if you were born in July? Less?
Frankly, I can't remember the cutoff birthday determining what year kids start school...or Little League...or Boy Scouts. But maybe that has an effect, a slight one.
If you are born in January in the southern hemisphere, is there a slight effect in the opposite direction, because the seasons are reversed?
In Astrology, the principle character traits are determined by the sun's position in the sky at the time of birth. Since it traverses all the man made (join the dots) zodiac signs over a year which are of course at different elevations, then you could say it reflects how much sun you and your mother are getting, it's intensity and brightness and the related heat and weather it brings. So, relating it to the seasons, but sub divided, is a valid thought.
Vitamin D3 is what the sun brings to the body, lack of sun, lack of D3. It supports the calcium absorption in a body and thus bone growth. The Moon, gravity and the movement of water in the seas and in your body.
How a generalization of your character and potential/illnesses etc ever came out of this and to a lesser extent, the planets influence is a highly debatable and an extremely tentative connection.
At some point though, since the character traits etc, are set in stone, you would think that some sort of observations of people and their times and dates of birth, position on the Earth went on over a long period of time.How a consensus of opinion about our character traits got agreed on however is mind boggling.
Fascinating to me. Well outside of the realm of the Monkey Mind and what it comprehends; simian-folks reject it LOL....those who see an Unlimited Universe understand; may be something to it.
Fascinating to me. Well outside of the realm of the Monkey Mind and what it comprehends; simian-folks reject it LOL....those who see an Unlimited Universe understand; may be something to it.
I wasn't interested until my friend introduced me to it.
Then i started volunteering and one of the 84 yr olds has this book called The astrologers hand book and she taught me how to draw my natal birth chart. Then we started reading indepth into different aspects and it's quite interesting.
It's all generic of course. As this lady was 84...shes obviously experienced a lot of things in her life so she could relate to all of her aspects one way or another.
Also, it helps you learn a lot about yourself. When you read the readings you naturally conjure up experiences relating to it... or if you haven't at all you dismiss it but it might reappear later on in life. You learn more about your own personality and your past applying it to different aspects throughout your life.
In terms of 'personality' traits... they seem quite accurate when I apply them to my friends. I started reading up about Deacons too as I have friends who are the same star sign and completely different to me and it's given us a few laughs. One of them who is the same star sign but a diff deacon. We read up his one and it mentioned using a lot of sex toys and engaging in 3somes and group sex etc which was spot on for him hahahahaha
I do think it is a bit of fun but I've met people born on the same day as me or 1 or day before/after who are very similar to me, with similar traits, interests and views on the world
I wouldn't put too much importance on it though but I also wouldn't dismiss it completely together. I think it's all about the energy you're born into and where your planets were placed on that day contribute to this forcefield. Probably not the case but it's cool to think of it like that otherwise, we're all just preconceived ideas.
The Amazing Randi once did a whole class's astrological report. The people in the class mostly said that the report (on them, based on birth date) was extremely accurate.
He had them pass their report on to the next person. They were all the same.
Thank you. You saved a lot of my time. People should not be fooled with this kind of superstition in this day and age. Unfortunately, it's still a business that takes advantage of simple minded people.
The Amazing Randi once did a whole class's astrological report. The people in the class mostly said that the report (on them, based on birth date) was extremely accurate.
He had them pass their report on to the next person. They were all the same.
The Amazing Randi once did a whole class's astrological report. The people in the class mostly said that the report (on them, based on birth date) was extremely accurate.
He had them pass their report on to the next person. They were all the same.
The report would have to be based on time, date and place of birth, to establish longitude and latitude.
The report, (based on my software) would have to detail a profession, disposition towards ailments and a number of other things aside from basic personality traits. The report would include meanings of the moon and planetary positions and not just the sun in the particular sign at birth. And, it would have of course to have been played fairly, not to just generate one report and pass it around. A report for each based on time, date, and place of birth
I have not watched this and would not waste my time doing so. You have already invalidated the above inquiries.
This is typical of James Randi, he does not do things fairly. He also gives it to a bunch of students, people of a young age who are undecided about anything, not fully developed in personality and had much history in the health dept.
I don't trust your software .. unless the person doing the report is a genuine shaman .talking to spirits on the other side by using special medicines.. i don't trust it ..
then again i also can pick up peoples gifts before they tell me they have them..
honestly though pardon the red flags that go up when someone starts claiming they have the right way to do this mystical stuff and point out the wtongness in the way other people are doing it ..
yes you can expect an amazing randi demonstration to show only debunking ..and rather than just attack the demonstration .. take your software generated horoscopes or what ever .. and hand people several different printouts with only one being theirs .. and see how often that one is the one they find most relevant to them ..
if in a hundred people you get a high number who the report with their time date location.. or whatever should make it more relevant .. is the one they or people who know them can agree is best ..
lah blah blah.. i'll ignore our computer program and just go to my native american shaman friend taking peyote
I don't trust your software .. unless the person doing the report is a genuine shaman .talking to spirits on the other side by using special medicines.. i don't trust it ..
then again i also can pick up peoples gifts before they tell me they have them..
honestly though pardon the red flags that go up when someone starts claiming they have the right way to do this mystical stuff and point out the wtongness in the way other people are doing it ..
yes you can expect an amazing randi demonstration to show only debunking ..and rather than just attack the demonstration .. take your software generated horoscopes or what ever .. and hand people several different printouts with only one being theirs .. and see how often that one is the one they find most relevant to them ..
if in a hundred people you get a high number who the report with their time date location.. or whatever should make it more relevant .. is the one they or people who know them can agree is best ..
lah blah blah.. i'll ignore our computer program and just go to my native american shaman friend taking peyote
Unfortunately, Randi just created a generic report that was carefully worded and that could be applied to anyone. This is not debunking. It was not a scientific approach and there was no validation in doing it.
Unfortunately, Randi just created a generic report that was carefully worded and that could be applied to anyone. This is not debunking. It was not a scientific approach and there was no validation in doing it.
lets have the same argument here .. i am questioning the validity of your software ..and your credentials to make the software in the first place ... what is your street cred in mysticism ..
you don't have to attack the validity or the demonstration that reandi did a long time ago and can do every day and not hurt the business of astrology ...
why exactly is your computer program more credible than some woman who lives and salem mass and claims to be a witch and makes a living doing astrology ..
your computer program is not a valid enough musical source for me to give any measure of beliefs .. even for a short period of time for entertainment purposes only.. it takes the story out of it
I don't trust your software .. unless the person doing the report is a genuine shaman .talking to spirits on the other side by using special medicines.. i don't trust it.
So, are you saying you would trust the shaman? I can't discern whether or not you're being facetious.
A 'genuine shaman.' That's an interesting term. lol
So, are you saying you would trust the shaman? I can't discern whether or not you're being facetious.
A 'genuine shaman.' That's an interesting term. lol
forget reality for a second.. this is all pure experience ..what experience are people after when they delve into this .. mystical stuff .. in many ways for many people the less acurate or the less detailed the better ..
you don't go to a magic show ..or stop to watch a street magician expecting real magic ..you willing to be fooled in very interesting ways .. and the more skilled or the more mystical the persons act ..the higher entertainment value ..
so if i am going to get astrology predictions .. i'm going to someone who looks like they are mystical or ..mystical enough to talk to spirits while they are high.. not to actually put faith in what they say..but because it's an interesting thing to do .. or the more entertaining the better ..
and all the fact or reason..or debunking in the world ..just makes it more interesting .. when some of the things actually happen ...but i might put money on getting the prediction.. never have put any money on the stuff actually happening
The report would have to be based on time, date and place of birth, to establish longitude and latitude.
The report, (based on my software) would have to detail a profession, disposition towards ailments and a number of other things aside from basic personality traits. The report would include meanings of the moon and planetary positions and not just the sun in the particular sign at birth. And, it would have of course to have been played fairly, not to just generate one report and pass it around. A report for each based on time, date, and place of birth
I have not watched this and would not waste my time doing so.
Strangely, I don't need to know the longitude or latitude of your place of birth....or your time of birth...or your profession...or the position of the Sun and Moon and stars when you were born....or any predisposition toward ailments...
That last sentence you posted told me everything about you.
Strangely, I don't need to know the longitude or latitude of your place of birth....or your time of birth...or your profession...or the position of the Sun and Moon and stars when you were born....or any predisposition toward ailments...
That last sentence you posted told me everything about you.
James Randi is a magician, a conjuror, nothing more. He's not a scientist, he pays no lip service to scientific methodology. He did not use it. I'm neither promoting or believing in Astrology.
My comment is about James Randi, who is often more a charlatan in his antics to debunk than the subject itself.
Remember his pathetic "Cold Reading" that he did on a woman in aTV audience a few years back to show "How it was done" It proved nothing, other than to say that you have notice of an invited, controlled audience and pay a private detective to target one woman in advance to find everything he can about her. You can impress
Most psychic/medium demonstrations "In The Real World" are small affairs where a miscellaneous bunch of people just show up on the night, no control, no prior knowledge, no investigations. And they speak to a multitude of people.
I'm disgusted that you would post anything to do with James Randi with respect to a serious scientific investigation.
The report would have to be based on time, date and place of birth, to establish longitude and latitude.
The report, (based on my software) would have to detail a profession, disposition towards ailments and a number of other things aside from basic personality traits. The report would include meanings of the moon and planetary positions and not just the sun in the particular sign at birth. And, it would have of course to have been played fairly, not to just generate one report and pass it around. A report for each based on time, date, and place of birth
I have not watched this and would not waste my time doing so. You have already invalidated the above inquiries.
This is typical of James Randi, he does not do things fairly. He also gives it to a bunch of students, people of a young age who are undecided about anything, not fully developed in personality and had much history in the health dept.
Total waste of time
This may be the most perfect example of an ad hominem fallacy I've ever seen.
The charts used by astrologers are thousands of years out of date. Due to distance, a human body has more gravitational impact on a person close to them than the planets or stars. If I want real advice, I'll use a Magic 8 Ball.
The charts used by astrologers are thousands of years out of date. Due to distance, a human body has more gravitational impact on a person close to them than the planets or stars. If I want real advice, I'll use a Magic 8 Ball.
When I was a child, I was told (by my fanatical mother) that the 8 Ball was an evil device that would lead to an evil outcome of biblical proportions.
When I was maybe 12 years old, I bought one...and opened it up....fully expecting winged monsters to fly out. Nope, just a multi faceted ball with random sayings on them, floating in a ball of colored water. Reality is often like that.
I feel that as a 12 year old. living in a very repressive home....I could forgive myself for my stupidity. Forgivable when you are 12, not so much when you are 50.
Some people (a few here today) still think it's real.
When I was a child, I was told (by my fanatical mother) that the 8 Ball was an evil device that would lead to an evil outcome of biblical proportions.
When I was maybe 12 years old, I bought one...and opened it up....fully expecting winged monsters to fly out. Nope, just a multi faceted ball with random sayings on them, floating in a ball of colored water. Reality is often like that.
I feel that as a 12 year old. living in a very repressive home....I could forgive myself for my stupidity. Forgivable when you are 12, not so much when you are 50.
Some people (a few here today) still think it's real.
how much belief you put into it .. or is it just for entertainment ..people have generally boring lives so they can gravitate to predictive sources ..the more entertaining the more believable.. that put them on the look out for the possibility of more interesting things happening in a day..or if is made measurable more interesting if it happens and was predicted..than if it had happened with no prediction .. and over time people only track the stuff that was predicted and happen.. not the stuff that didn't .. or happened without prediction ..
When I was a child, I was told (by my fanatical mother) that the 8 Ball was an evil device that would lead to an evil outcome of biblical proportions.
When I was maybe 12 years old, I bought one...and opened it up....fully expecting winged monsters to fly out. Nope, just a multi faceted ball with random sayings on them, floating in a ball of colored water. Reality is often like that.
I feel that as a 12 year old. living in a very repressive home....I could forgive myself for my stupidity. Forgivable when you are 12, not so much when you are 50.
Some people (a few here today) still think it's real.
The charts used by astrologers are thousands of years out of date. Due to distance, a human body has more gravitational impact on a person close to them than the planets or stars. If I want real advice, I'll use a Magic 8 Ball.
At least be accurate, the charts that are made now are based on real astronomical data, not thousands of years old. Also the initial charts only incorporated the first 4 visible planets other than Earth. Uranus, Neptune And Pluto were incorporated later.
The computation of the charts uses science and math. The interpretation of them is a different matter.
tbh you gotta figure on the repyootation any astrologer person got.
Seismic shifts an' cosmic vapors aside -- they sayin' anythin' rings sweeto troo onya ass on any kinda spirityool, emotional, practical or whatevah level?
A momentary INFOWAFT tugs all neato onya srs GUTSYSTUFFS?
I would want always for horoscopes to pull on succor from outta the Void for anywan askin' the right kinda shit.
For sure, plenty charlatans gonna show, but diligent prescience will always find her clearcut superstars, I guess.
Only problem I got rn is figurin' any kinda self-restraint when Joopiter MARAUDS HIS FULL-ON ASS into Sagittarius later in the year.
Accordin' to my latest forecast, prolly ima gonna be improbable.
When I was a child, I was told (by my fanatical mother) that the 8 Ball was an evil device that would lead to an evil outcome of biblical proportions.
When I was maybe 12 years old, I bought one...and opened it up....fully expecting winged monsters to fly out. Nope, just a multi faceted ball with random sayings on them, floating in a ball of colored water. Reality is often like that.
I feel that as a 12 year old. living in a very repressive home....I could forgive myself for my stupidity. Forgivable when you are 12, not so much when you are 50.
Some people (a few here today) still think it's real.
And someone who knows that it is real, try's to convince someone who knows that it isn't real, does nothing but shows the difference between evidence borne beliefs and emotional, spitballing.
Originally Posted by lanfear63
James Randi is a magician, a conjuror, nothing more. He's not a scientist, he pays no lip service to scientific methodology. He did not use it. I'm neither promoting or believing in Astrology.
My comment is about James Randi, who is often more a charlatan in his antics to debunk than the subject itself.
Remember his pathetic "Cold Reading" that he did on a woman in aTV audience a few years back to show "How it was done" It proved nothing, other than to say that you have notice of an invited, controlled audience and pay a private detective to target one woman in advance to find everything he can about her. You can impress
Most psychic/medium demonstrations "In The Real World" are small affairs where a miscellaneous bunch of people just show up on the night, no control, no prior knowledge, no investigations. And they speak to a multitude of people.
I'm disgusted that you would post anything to do with James Randi with respect to a serious scientific investigation.
Yes, l grew up watching this dimwit, try to discredit several people that likely had gifts.
But as always if the evidence clearly points to one conclusion, the monkey mind does not see it or wants to see it, as it threatens its security, eventhough true.
And we wonder why they called Edison "mad" for trying so many times, he wasn't mad at all, it is humanity's, programmed, empathetic numbness that is "mad".
What? I've edged out Riffle and Kurt? I'm honored.
It wasn't even close.
In my life, I have met two people I could seriously say were evil...meaning that they had malevolent intentions in everything they did. And both of them started manifesting this tendency toward destructive intent in their late teens.
Both of these were guys I went to school with, and knew for years afterward. Cruel people, who really took joy in torturing animals and hurting people. One of them (I don't know for sure which one) hung our cat by the neck in our backyard tree. I was maybe 15 at the time.
They were both a year older than I am. One committed suicide about five years ago...and the other one is in prison.
In my life, I have met two people I could seriously say were evil...meaning that they had malevolent intentions in everything they did.One committed suicide about ten years ago...and the other one is in prison.
I'm sure they are happy in Hell, knowing that you have decided to live your life by their example. Outdoing them, even. :-)
Even if he didn't actually say it, all agree with PT Barnum, "There is a sucker born every minute."
Made up? Like religions?
OR, as Dan Kennedy might put it, take their money or they'll give it to someone else.
GordonJ
Blah, blah, ....blah, you and others are so sure that it is all crap, while others have first hand experience and know that there is something to it.
Amelia Earhart, was physic, but kept it to herself, since consistency in incompetence doesn't wane over time.
"Officials at first were inclined to laugh at Miss Earhart's psychic messages. But her accuracy now has them mystified. When a United Airlines plane was lost just outside of Burbank, Calif. Dec. 27, Miss Earhart called the United Airlines office and told them to look on a hill near Saugus, a little town north of Burbank.
"There the wreckage was found.
"Again when the Western Air Express plane carrying Mr. and Mrs. Martin Johnson crashed Jan. 12, Miss Earhart reported the plane to be near Newhall, 15 miles north of Burbank, where it was found.
"In the earlier crash of the Western Air Express in Utah, Miss Earhart had a vision to the effect that the bodies of the dead had been robbed by a trapper. Two days later, a trapper near Salt Lake City reported finding the wreckage, but then suddenly disappeared without giving the location of the plane."
And Kennedy used one to give the location of a downed military aircraft, in the 60's, etc.
The evidence is there, but the ego or the 5 year old within cracks the s***ts when good evidence is given for Anything that threatens its existence.
That is why when paranormal, is discussed and good to very good evidence is given, rage and anger usually results. Not necessarily because of the poster, but because they hate it.
And of course the questions is "why"?
Someone who is open-minded will at least not say it is for suckers, etc; and someone else out of fear of self, diminishing or worse still disappearing, will dig in and use anything regardless of how crazy it sounds to prove that it isn't true.
The question isn't is this true, but rather why am l trying so hard and getting so angry for?
Because the ego self, (the identity most people relate to) feels threatened; but there is an ego and a true self, and eventhough the ego or 5 year old, goes nuts when threatened, as any 5 year old will, it will calm down eventually and it does not need to be wiped away only subdued.
Once this part of self is understood then true acceptance of anything just as long as sufficient evidence is available, can be considered.
Originally Posted by Dan Riffle
My boss recently paid $11 grand for a Rolex. I told him his phone has a clock in it.
I paid $350 for a smart watch. My buddy informed me that my phone has a clock in it.
My watch is currently broken, and since it is about 20 years old, is unreparable.
And it does suck to have to get my phone out of my pocket and look at a bright, hard to see screen to see what time it is.
Blah, blah, ....blah, you and others are so sure that it is all crap, while others have first hand experience and know that there is something to it.
Amelia Earhart, was physic, but kept it to herself, since consistency in incompetence doesn't wane over time.
And Kennedy used one to give the location of a downed military aircraft, in the 60's, etc.
The evidence is there, but the ego or the 5 year old within cracks the s***ts when good evidence is given for Anything that threatens its existence.
That is why when paranormal, is discussed and good to very good evidence is given, rage and anger usually results. Not necessarily because of the poster, but because they hate it.
And of course the questions is "why"?
Someone who is open-minded will at least not say it is for suckers, etc; and someone else out of fear of self, diminishing or worse still disappearing, will dig in and use anything regardless of how crazy it sounds to prove that it isn't true.
The question isn't is this true, but rather why am l trying so hard and getting so angry for?
Because the ego self, (the identity most people relate to) feels threatened; but there is an ego and a true self, and eventhough the ego or 5 year old, goes nuts when threatened, as any 5 year old will, it will calm down eventually and it does not need to be wiped away only subdued.
Once this part of self is understood then true acceptance of anything just as long as sufficient evidence is available, can be considered.
My watch is currently broken, and since it is about 20 years old, is unreparable.
And it does suck to have to get my phone out of my pocket and look at a bright, hard to see screen to see what time it is.
I will take an easy to see watch anytime.
Do you still believe the US military has bases on Mars and has engaged in battle with extra-terrestrials?
That is why when paranormal, is discussed and good to very good evidence is given, rage and anger usually results. Not necessarily because of the poster, but because they hate it.
And of course the questions is "why"?
Someone who is open-minded will at least not say it is for suckers, etc; and someone else out of fear of self, diminishing or worse still disappearing, will dig in and use anything regardless of how crazy it sounds to prove that it isn't true.
The question isn't is this true, but rather why am l trying so hard and getting so angry for?
Because the ego self, (the identity most people relate to) feels threatened; but there is an ego and a true self, and eventhough the ego or 5 year old, goes nuts when threatened, as any 5 year old will, it will calm down eventually and it does not need to be wiped away only subdued.
Do you really think that the people who disagree with you are afraid? Do you think your "ideas" make anyone feel threatened?
Has anyone here shown evidence that they felt threatened by anything you say?
Do you honestly think you are capable of making me angry?
i get that way when i am talking to people with shane like beliefs and they start talking about fema camps and getting implanted with micro chips ..
hell the microchip fear has been around my whole life ..i pull out my cell phone and mention that they don't need to implant them anymore.. just get you to carry them around .. and then with facial recognition, voice print and other biometric data .. with cameras almost everywhere ..
but then i remember before snowden came out and told everyone the extent of the data collection.. i was explaining it on a forum and trying to tell people to be aware and not pretend they still had privacy ..
now we are in a time virtually no secrets can be kept so if there is a them ..or they.. the best strategy is to release all kinds of different stories and multiple sets of facts .. so people can pic there own truth about what is going on.. and do nothing but find more things on the web ..to back up their beliefs..and make no real improvements to their lives
If a microchip is good enough for my dog, it's good enough for me. I've reached the age where I have trouble finding my way home and could get lost.
well the question is what are the chips supposed to actually do.. and will people need a new one every two years to get a better chip ... it a fine belief to hold if you have no real grasp of how tech works and how it is advancing ..
and you point out a wonderful application to the tech .. that many will just look at as sinister.. sure start with the old people with degenerative disorders .. but then the real sinister stuff will be shown ..
in a country where where the making of profit is the highest of virtues .. enough sinister stuff is allowed.. but if you can't show me who is going to make a lot of money off your sinister future scenario ..
follow the money and show me the money ..people can claim to believe nearly anything .. but what they spend money on shows what they really believe .. in most cases .. or what they will spend other peoples money on
well the question is what are the chips supposed to actually do.. and will people need a new one every two years to get a better chip ...
Would not be surprised to see Intel develop the chip and Microsoft program it with Microsoft Windows 10 that will automatically update. But a few will refuse and want the Windows 7 version chip installed instead
Would not be surprised to see Intel develop the chip and Microsoft program it with Microsoft Windows 10 that will automatically update. But a few will refuse and want the Windows 7 version chip installed instead
What about Apple chips? Will we see hundreds of people lined up outside Apple stores every time a new "improved" chip is released.
What about brands of chips? Already there's a shop down the road from me selling fission chips (salt and vinegar optional).
The inability to accept valid evidence, and unjustified anger are two.
no here is what is going on ..you have a religius level belief in this stuff .. and only see people as open minded if they agree to what your beliefs are ..
you have an unhealthy need to get others to believe this stuff .. to validate it to yourself..
why do you have such a need to get people who have no interest in believing or even entertaining the possibility that any of what you believe is real ..
it's not fear greed or anger .. it basic annoyance that you are facing..there is good reason religion or politics is forbidden from discussion here .. you can mention slight.. but not really discuss doctrine ..
you have a doctrine no one else shares and for some reason get offended when other see it as foolish fantasy ..
I believe in a lot of this sruff but not the same way you do.. and this forum is not the place to talk about them.. and anyone ..lik you shane.. i usually avoid talking to about this stuff.. where it come to religion or politics .. or alternative reality ..
I accept people nearly everyone else has different beliefs than i do.. and look for where beliefs are in the same area or at least on the same planet .. and not beat people over the head to get them to believe what i do.. i agrue like hell but it's to pull out what they believe
no here is what is going on ..you have a religius level belief in this stuff .. and only see people as open minded if they agree to what your beliefs are ..
you have an unhealthy need to get others to believe this stuff .. to validate it to yourself..
why do you have such a need to get people who have no interest in believing or even entertaining the possibility that any of what you believe is real ..
it's not fear greed or anger .. it basic annoyance that you are facing..there is good reason religion or politics is forbidden from discussion here .. you can mention slight.. but not really discuss doctrine ..
you have a doctrine no one else shares and for some reason get offended when other see it as foolish fantasy ..
I believe in a lot of this sruff but not the same way you do.. and this forum is not the place to talk about them.. and anyone ..lik you shane.. i usually avoid talking to about this stuff.. where it come to religion or politics .. or alternative reality ..
I accept people nearly everyone else has different beliefs than i do.. and look for where beliefs are in the same area or at least on the same planet .. and not beat people over the head to get them to believe what i do.. i agrue like hell but it's to pull out what they believe
This forum represents a cross section of everyday people, you get intelligent ones, ignorant ones, people of average intelligence...and of course..Claude Whitacre.Most people, here, whatever their level of intelligence, understanding etc, are not generally thinkers on the more esoteric stuff. .
We could make it easy on ourselves and visit forums that talk exclusively about various paranormal subjects, but that's just preaching to the choir.
Personally I find it more interesting to pitch my viewpoints here. Pitching to the average Joe is more challenging and rewarding, especially if it makes them think. You get a lot of abuse for sure, but sometimes you get some viewpoints back that challenge you.
Unfortunately you do get some fallout, one has blocked me, another apparently no longer wishes to engage with me.
Feel free though to debate, rebuke anything I say that you don't agree with. That after all is what free debate is all about. It's sad that some lose sight of that.
T
Unfortunately you do get some fallout, one has blocked me, another apparently no longer wishes to engage with me.
Feel free though to debate, rebuke anything I say that you don't agree with. That after all is what free debate is all about. It's sad that some lose sight of that.
you are at least willing to be disagreed with .. and only tend to make claude jokes in every post here.. like several others..
and you are not trying to convince anyone .. and you have watch the claude and shane dance for a long time ..
you understand the way shane goes about discussing this .. makes the rest of us who believe some or much of this stuff look like nutcases ..hell i won't talk about a lot of my weird beliefs because i have gotten attacked worse from so called self proclaimed open minded people ..and then there re those who are as dogmatic as many strict religious people..
hell i won't talk about a lot of my weird beliefs because i have gotten attacked worse from so called self proclaimed open minded people
Why do some people continuously use the word, "attacked," to describe the pushback they get when someone simple refutes, resists, rejects or ridicules what they are putting forward. Snowflake alert.
No one is attacking anyone. Not that I have ever seen - EVER!!! but apparently they are wounding the delicate sensibilities of some of you. C'mon - grow a pair.
Forum banter ain't bean bag.
BTW - I'm very open-minded on topics as long as what's presented is in keeping with my own personal beliefs. :-)
Why do some people continuously use the word, "attacked," to describe the pushback they get when someone simple refutes, resists, rejects or ridicules what they are putting forward. Snowflake alert.
No one is attacking anyone. Not that I have ever seen - EVER!!! but apparently they are wounding the delicate sensibilities of some of you. C'mon - grow a pair.
Forum banter ain't bean bag.
BTW - I'm very open-minded on topics as long as what's presented is in keeping with my own personal beliefs. :-)
oh i know the difference ..and i'm not referring to what goes on on this forum ..there is stuff about energy that i will only discuss with people i can either sence online .or read in person..
and mystical stuff that i have happen on a regular basis..that i do not need to talk about for validation from others ..I'll use energy at the level i have learned to use and mold energy.. and let those who see .. speak up and ask .. rather than try to perfor parlor tricks for people and say hey looky what i can do ..
now on a less serious note .. responding to your tech quote .. i think the chip you want would be in the brain and would have to say yes she is legal and stop you from thinking she could be my daughters age or my grand daughters age .. or maybe she is my daughter or granddaughter .. then increase blood flow
you are at least willing to be disagreed with .. and only tend to make claude jokes in every post here.. like several others..
and you are not trying to convince anyone .. and you have watch the claude and shane dance for a long time ..
you understand the way shane goes about discussing this .. makes the rest of us who believe some or much of this stuff look like nutcases ..hell i won't talk about a lot of my weird beliefs because i have gotten attacked worse from so called self proclaimed open minded people ..and then there re those who are as dogmatic as many strict religious people..
I try to present my arguments in the most scientific & logical way possible, difficult though that is given the subject matter
I have said this before but you have probably not heard it. I cite statistics. Let's take the existence of ghosts & UFO's
Since the dawn of mankind's ability to record history. Both have been prevalent in recordings throughout all cultures, many who had never been able to know of others existence until recently. So, although they have been given different names over the years, it does not take much to deduce that they were all referring to the same things. All, independently recorded
Then we look at what proportion of the human race that can be referred to as insane, unreliable, charlatans, mistaking a natural phenomenon, overly religious and liars etc. Let's be really cruel to the population and say that 95 percent were like that.
So you are saying that 5 percent of the Earth's population since the dawn of mankind's recorded existence are intelligent, sane, honest and reliable witnesses who record exactly what they see.
That my friend, over that long a period represents millions and millions of people.
These sightings, encounters etc have not subsided in recent times. They have increased, probably because there are more people around to witness them and that some are actively looking.
Although mainly subjective, there is some photographic and film footage around that purports to have recorded such phenomenon. The older stuff is probably more reliable compared with the digital recent stuff that could be faked with CGI.
So I say, there is such phenomenon out there and it is valid to study it.
As long as you articulate yourself well, you should be fearless if you want to talk about it..
Do you really think I'm angry with you? Do you think that anything you have ever said here...has made me angry?
You, no.
Originally Posted by Odahh
no here is what is going on ..you have a religius level belief in this stuff .. and only see people as open minded if they agree to what your beliefs are ..
you have an unhealthy need to get others to believe this stuff .. to validate it to yourself..
why do you have such a need to get people who have no interest in believing or even entertaining the possibility that any of what you believe is real ..
it's not fear greed or anger .. it basic annoyance that you are facing..there is good reason religion or politics is forbidden from discussion here .. you can mention slight.. but not really discuss doctrine ..
you have a doctrine no one else shares and for some reason get offended when other see it as foolish fantasy ..
I believe in a lot of this sruff but not the same way you do.. and this forum is not the place to talk about them.. and anyone ..lik you shane.. i usually avoid talking to about this stuff.. where it come to religion or politics .. or alternative reality ..
I accept people nearly everyone else has different beliefs than i do.. and look for where beliefs are in the same area or at least on the same planet .. and not beat people over the head to get them to believe what i do.. i agrue like hell but it's to pull out what they believe
Geesh,.....talk about spinning the iceberg. This has nothing to do with fanatical beliefs and has everything to do with valid evidence being ignored, forgotten and dismissed in a "see spot run" sort of way.
As well as others just getting p***ed, ignoring the evidence and attacking the poster for its own sake.
Unhealthy need, or in other words l have struck a nerve.
Annoyance, sure l get pretty annoyed when myself and others present good or very good evidence, and it is ignored.
Have a doctrine that no one else shares, lol, how about you prove that one!
As for foolish fantasy, if someone can find a downed plane, and others still ignore that, then it is pretty obvious where the foolish part comes in.
Well, l have been here for 8 years, and been dealing with certain members for some time, so presenting evidence here no matter how good it is, is usually fruitless, so yeah, cutting the crap and getting to the heart of why the anger and fanatical avoidance, is what l am discussing.
Originally Posted by lanfear63
I try to present my arguments in the most scientific & logical way possible, difficult though that is given the subject matter
I have said this before but you have probably not heard it. I cite statistics. Let's take the existence of ghosts & UFO's
Since the dawn of mankind's ability to record history. Both have been prevalent in recordings throughout all cultures, many who had never been able to know of others existence until recently. So, although they have been given different names over the years, it does not take much to deduce that they were all referring to the same things. All, independently recorded
Then we look at what proportion of the human race that can be referred to as insane, unreliable, charlatans, mistaking a natural phenomenon, overly religious and liars etc. Let's be really cruel to the population and say that 95 percent were like that.
So you are saying that 5 percent of the Earth's population since the dawn of mankind's recorded existence are intelligent, sane, honest and reliable witnesses who record exactly what they see.
That my friend, over that long a period represents millions and millions of people.
These sightings, encounters etc have not subsided in recent times. They have increased, probably because there are more people around to witness them and that some are actively looking.
Although mainly subjective, there is some photographic and film footage around that purports to have recorded such phenomenon. The older stuff is probably more reliable compared with the digital recent stuff that could be faked with CGI.
So I say, there is such phenomenon out there and it is valid to study it.
As long as you articulate yourself well, you should be fearless if you want to talk about it..
True, most evidence in most fields can be dismissed or ignored, but there is always a small percentage that is very good or iron clad and cannot be dismissed as easily.
And you would naturally assume that this evidence would convince anyone, but if the ego's of some feels threatened by such evidence, then everything and anything bordering on comical is employed to dismiss it.
And you would naturally assume that this evidence would convince anyone, but if the ego's of some feels threatened by such evidence, then everything and anything bordering on comical is employed to dismiss it.
I have to say it...
In my entire time with this forum, I've never seen anyone that has replied to anything you have said...that indicated that they felt threatened by anything you said...any idea you proposed.
And I have never felt threatened by anything you have said..or anything Mark has said. In fact, in my entire history with this forum, only once was I angered by anything anyone posted...and that was one post made by Dan Riffle (And I no longer remember what it was about.)
The idea that anything you have said...threatens anyone's self image, ego, ..or their view of the world...is ludicrous.
Like I have said before, the first two years I read your posts, I honestly thought you were a kid..maybe 14 years old. Not generally an impression that inspires fear in the hearts of others.
You have not "struck a nerve". And nobody has ever responded to you in a way that indicated that you have struck a nerve. (unless I've missed something) Although occasionally, I think you may hit someone's funny bone.
And you would naturally assume that this evidence would convince anyone, but if the ego's of some feels threatened by such evidence, then everything and anything bordering on comical is employed to dismiss it.
Here you're obviously referring to your reaction to the irrefutable evidence of climate change.
Your reactions to it, along with the snide remarks you pepper your posts with on this topic are most definitely comical. Your ego is obviously threatened by such evidence.
Here you're obviously referring to your reaction to the irrefutable evidence of climate change.
Your reactions to it, along with the snide remarks you pepper your posts with on this topic are most definitely comical. Your ego is obviously threatened by such evidence.
i thought he was referring to his views on the rapidly advancing tech of automated vehicles and the improvement in renewable energy and the reduction in cost .. that there is plenty of evedence and trends and numbers .. to prove ..
instead he is pointing at stuff that really doesn't effect peoples day to day lives .. i mean i lived in a house over 30 years that was supposedly haunted.. well at least had tons of negative energy my family added to on a regular basis .. never saw ghost or stuff move around myself.. but several other did over the years ..
oddly enough i never remember doing this but a few time in that last year sleeping around other people and in areas where spirits formed some how.. other people will start seeing something..and reportedly i will sit up from my sleep and make the spirit disappear.. and then go right back to sleep ..and never actually remember doing it ..
so my plate is full of stuff oi am working with and on that actually affects my day to day life and my health going forward .. the odd mystical stuff i can use to make my like better then improve others lives ..
the world we live in gives us multiple opportunities that where not available before a few years or a decade ago .to start changing or improving our lives ..for the better for the long term .. and more of these option are made available daily weekly and monthly ..
if you are chaseing these beliefs and digging up proof or evidence ..or whatever to attempt to convert others .. yet.. not doing anything to make your life better.. and people look at the beliefs you have and are trying to sell them on.. and seeing that to them your life looks quite misserable or lonely ..
that is the evidence that matters to others .. the life you have because you believe these things ..
if you are chasing these beliefs and digging up proof or evidence ..
And that gets at the core of the matter.
None of these things(in this thread) are conclusions based on evidence...
"Chasing these beliefs" is the proven way to absolutely being certain...about things that are not true at all.
Never try to "dig up evidence" pointing in a certain direction. That's how innocent men are found guilty. It's how these superstitions persist. It is the opposite of rational thought.
Would you think you saw (or felt) a ghost...if you didn't already believe in ghosts? The answer is No.
Creaks in the floor just become wood expanding...cold spots become simple drafts....hearing a voice of a ghost just become the wind..or the radio from next door. A touch from a ghost becomes an insect crawling across the skin. None of these things would ever be interpreted as a ghost...unless you already believed in ghosts.
When I was a kid, I believed in demons (because of an insane and ignorant parent). Every sound at night became a demon...every shadow moving, every tree rubbing against a window...all became demons. I was terrified at night.
I remember that it was a night in a hotel, by myself, during a speaking engagement. I watched a great horror movie, titled Mama. This is only maybe 5 years ago. That night was the first time I could watch a "supernatural ghost story"....without chills of instinctual fear running up my spine.
I slept like a baby. The last vestiges of my irrational fear were gone...forever. It took my intellect 45 years of effort to purge myself of this ignorance. And I'm never going back.
Would you think you saw (or felt) a ghost...if you didn't already believe in ghosts? The answer is No.
Creaks in the floor just become wood expanding...cold spots become simple drafts....hearing a voice of a ghost just become the wind..or the radio from next door. A touch from a ghost becomes an insect crawling across the skin. None of these things would ever be interpreted as a ghost...unless you already believed in ghosts.
so where on this planet would people not learn about ghost as soon as they start understanding language .. and trying to understand the world around them with the little bit of insight they have ..
a large number of people believe as they are children and stop believing as they get older ..or become adults and see no evidence .. of ghost, santa clause the tooth fairy.. all kind of things the child's mind can dream up...
but life can get boring or does get borings .. so many of these beliefs are held and expanded or enhanced.. to make life more interesting .
and would you be wealthy today if it wasn't for people silly beliefs that led them to buy stuff from you they really did not need ..
the human mind explains the world around them with stories..not bullet pointed lists of facts ..
so where on this planet would people not learn about ghost as soon as they start understanding language .. and trying to understand the world around them with the little bit of insight they have ..
Probably nowhere. It's almost a universal belief. It's a combination of two things; A strong belief that personalities live on after death.....and our mind's need to anthropomorphise any natural effect we sense. It's what creates gods, ghosts, and various imaginary creatures. I strongly suspect that believing in ghosts was one of the first attempts to explain things we didn't understand. Now, it's culturally established, with plenty of history.
Originally Posted by Odahh
a large number of people believe as they are children and stop believing as they get older ..or become adults and see no evidence .. of ghost, santa clause the tooth fairy.. all kind of things the child's mind can dream up...
I'm not sure Santa Claus and ghosts are the same thing. When we are kids, we figure out pretty quickly that our parents buy the gifts...but that's because we see evidence of it...shopping for gifts, listening late at night, listening to our parent's conversations...we can put it together pretty quickly as we grow up. But ghosts? There is no evidence that they do not exist. There is nothing to convince us that the belief is wrong. And...it does fill some emotional needs. It does fit in and weaves through some cultures...to the point that the belief is universal. And if no parent or authority figure declares (when we are still young and impressionable) that ghosts are nonsense...the belief holds on.
Originally Posted by Odahh
but life can get boring or does get borings .. so many of these beliefs are held and expanded or enhanced.. to make life more interesting .
I don't know that it's boredom. And I don't think it's that people "Want" to believe in ghosts (as an example). It's just an idea that is accepted...and then stories are heard, experiences are felt that can be interpreted as ghostly, and the belief gets strengthened. And any alternative explanation gets rejected.
Originally Posted by Odahh
and would you be wealthy today if it wasn't for people silly beliefs that led them to buy stuff from you they really did not need ..
I'm not that wealthy. You have to understand that I find nearly every belief to be silly. So it's unusual that I hear an argument (about most anything) that I consider well thought out. It's not so much that others have silly beliefs, but that I see them as silly. There is always the possibility that I am wrong. That possibility occurs to me every day.
Originally Posted by Odahh
the human mind explains the world around them with stories..not bullet pointed lists of facts ..
Yes.. very well thought out. In fact, our entire culture...any culture is built on stories. Stories mold us. Why? Because stories contain the lessons, experiences, principles, and connection to the rest of humanity. Lists of facts cannot make us cry. But a beautiful story can. The theme to The Davinci Code..by Hans Zimmer...makes me cry every time I hear it. Just music...but our mind is weaving a story as we listen.
When imagination and intellect collide....imagination wins. Always. And that is why we believe what we believe. But that is where the beauty is. The poetry. The stories.
A week ago, we spent some time with my Brother-In-Law and my wife's sister. One of my wife's sisters died two weeks ago, and the family has had several meetings (funeral arrangements, taking care of final needs, etc). I asked my Brother-In-Law if he had ever seen anything that made him cry...just by the sheer beauty of it. He said that he was on a cruise near Alaska...and he watched glaziers at night. He said it was perfectly still...except for the sound of ice cracking. He described the absolute peacefulness of it...the quiet...the majesty of giant glaciers breaking apart.. The stillness. He told me that he watched for hours at night, and it would overwhelm him. Just a story.
Yes.. very well thought out. In fact, our entire culture...any culture is built on stories. Stories mold us. Why? Because stories contain the lessons, experiences, principles, and connection to the rest of humanity. Lists of facts cannot make us cry. But a beautiful story can. The theme to The Davinci Code..by Hans Zimmer...makes me cry every time I hear it. Just music...but our mind is weaving a story as we listen.
.
I lived in a house that other people who came in from time to time said had ghoasts ..our family lived in in from when it was built in the 70's to 2 years ago .. and we never saw any of these supposed ghosts ..but we argued and faught a lot so it left a lot of negative energy in the house .. that people could feel .. and those who are prones to seeing ghost will see ghosts ..
no when i sat down outside last night and the rattle snakes that was right next to me kindly suggestested i be the one to move with a rattle of it's tail .. i moved .. but that's part of living in a desert .. that and 100-110 degree temperatures during the day ..no a year in the desert and no rattlers seen and two getting real close to me in a bit over a week ..i could make some kind of story out of that .. but or sign or something.. but it's part of living in the desert
there is a need to explain what can't yet be explained .. or a need to believe that some force outside of us in controlling things about us.. or leading us somewhere.. or punishing us.. or making us do bad things .. or telling us what those bad things are we shouldn't do that we like doing anyway ..
think about how we assume aliens to be .. like us with better technology that they want to use to conquer us for our resources ..no the story i tell about the greys the ones who supposedly abduct people .. is they probably are us from a different earth ...so they tunnel to our dimension to crossbreed .. for what ever reason ..
thats the story that makes sense to me and something humans would do with better tech and if we continue poisoning our environment like we are now .. it might be something we will have to do in 1000 years or 500 ..
but i don't need anyone else to believe or agree with that ..
and in the case of ghosts and built up stuck negative dark energy.. that people can turn into seeing ghosts ..or demons what ever.. i have the ability to neutralize that energy ..so ghost won't appear while i am around .. and as i grow stronger in that.. will be able to clear that energy so ghosts won't appear in that area again ..
belief is a powerful thing.. would people who don't believe in phost see ghosts.. well if they still had the sensitivity to negative energy that would turn such energy into a ghost .. they would probably see a ghost but write it of to being drugged or some hallucination that was a one time thing that does not prove anything ..
im fascinated by the various things people believe.. but also .. there are sets of beliefs people who believe one thing tend to believe a range of other beliefs .. that fall in line with others .. who believe things like them.. not exact but in a range ..
for me most of m beliefs arn't for looking for agreement with other people . it more getting through this crazy world and understanding why people believe what they believe .. and if being around them poses any risk to me .. as having strong energy .. people who are energy vampires use to drain the hell out of me .. but there where some i would allow but manipulate their energy into a much higher state .. then drain some back ...
anyway .. do the stories get us to function better in this world.. or do they just keep us in a state of disfuntion ... and victimization .. with something else out there alway responsible for what is happening to us .. or how much money we have or anything ..
so the law of attraction.. astrology ..our genetics .. where we grew up.. the believes me parents taught me.. what happen when i was 5 .. or 7 .. or the economy.. who the president is or isn't .. what the kardashians are doing ... blah blah blah ..
are these beliefs being used to cst responsibility .. as far away from the person really responsible as possible .. and used to argue for the crappy lives they have ..
back to astrology .. as i said earlier in the thread .. if someone reads a few horoscopes.. and they lead to more awareness over the day and better responses .. even if they are a pisces and they are following the virgo horoscope today .. even false beliefs or junk scienc that leads to positive out is fine.. but if used to explain the bad as if somone was powerless over what would happen because of when they where born ..blah
there is a need to explain what can't yet be explained ..
And you now hit on a major issue here.
There are lots of things that we (so far) don't have a rational explanation for. Things we don't understand.
But that's almost never what is discussed in these threads.
What we end up with are subjects that are really completely explained...vastly understood by educated people....
And yet we still talk about them as though they are "unexplained mysteries".
It isn't a mystery, it's just something that some people don't understand. Many of these subjects (for example, every subject about the supernatural) is not a matter of insight or experience, but a matter of knowledge, education, and (I hate to say it) Intelligence.
Here is an example...
(Sorry. I was going to add my next post, but it got separated)
There are lots of things that we (so far) don't have a rational explanation for. Things we don't understand.
But that's almost never what is discussed in these threads.
What we end up with are subjects that are really completely explained...vastly understood by educated people....
And yet we still talk about them as though they are "unexplained mysteries".
It isn't a mystery, it's just something that some people don't understand. Many of these subjects (for example, every subject about the supernatural) is not a matter of insight or experience, but a matter of knowledge, education, and (I hate to say it) Intelligence.
Here is an example...
I am going to be annoyingly repetitive with this ...response .. it still come down to story and boredom.. is someone needs .. on a deep level ..needs this to be real to them.. because if replacing it with the accurate story of what can be proven.. either makes their lives more boring.. or makes them feel like they have been foolish ..
no amount of proof ghosts are not real or what ever ..is going to be accepted ..again beliefs comes with multiply other similar beliefs in the unexplained or other worldly.. so many people cant just give up one .. losing one may mean questioning everything.. and this usually does not go well
i've gotten to speak to enough people who tripped out on meth or some hallucinogen.. and saw real wierd things after being awake and high for a few days .. and even if they stop using for a while .. they will still explain these things as they really happened .. and claim the several other people have seen the midget ninja cops .. or the plack opps polices helicopter that beamed them up and reprogrammed their mind
so i don't have the ability to rationally explain anything to anyone in a way to change their beliefs
but i am sooooooooo glad i never had the desire to try hard drugs.. i believe enough odd stuff without it
and in the case of ghosts and built up stuck negative dark energy.. that people can turn into seeing ghosts ..or demons what ever....
What is dark energy? Please explain how it is different from positive energy. And how is energy positive or negative? What kind of energy? Solar,electromagnetic, chemical? Is there evil chemical energy? Positive chemical energy? How does energy turn into a vision of a ghost? Are ghosts conscious? How are they born? How do they develop? When they die, do they become ghost ghosts?
Every sentence I read on this thread that suggests something supernatural instantly raises hundreds of questions with me.
How does it work? What are the laws of physics involved? Does it work the same across the universe? Only in Ohio? Only in your house? How is the process fed? (How does it get powered) Why can't we measure any supernatural event? We can measure any other event, why not the supernatural? How would you explain ghosts to a physicist so that he would understand? Could you convince a jury that "A ghost did it"? Why isn't that defense allowed?
I suspect (because I can only know how I myself think) that these supernatural beliefs are never tested...never questioned...there is no attempt to achieve a depth of understanding how any of it works.
Why? Because any serious attempts at discovery reveal that it's...well...imaginary.
If any of these claims were real.....then all the sciences and testing available would prove that they are true...every debate would make that more obvious.....every new piece of real information would support the claim...
Why is it that the higher we go in education..in intelligence....the fewer believers in the supernatural? In fact, among physicist, that belief is practically unknown. Is it because they know less than we do about how the world works? They aren't as intelligent? Not as educated?
Why don't we ask...."What do they know that we do not?"
As we learn more...as we progress as a planet....as we have better ways of revealing new facets of reality....the direction has always gone away from superstition..the supernatural...and toward scientific explanations. Always. Why?
Geesh,.....talk about spinning the iceberg. This has nothing to do with fanatical beliefs and has everything to do with valid evidence being ignored, forgotten and dismissed in a "see spot run" sort of way.
As well as others just getting p***ed, ignoring the evidence and attacking the poster for its own sake.
Unhealthy need, or in other words l have struck a nerve.
Annoyance, sure l get pretty annoyed when myself and others present good or very good evidence, and it is ignored.
Shane you are getting mad for nothing. No one here cares, they read these posts and move on. Some break your stones because you get mad. If you tell someone they are wrong. All they will do is dig in and defend their position. Let it go and let the thread continue on.
I have to say it...
In my entire time with this forum, I've never seen anyone that has replied to anything you have said...that indicated that they felt threatened by anything you said...any idea you proposed.
And I have never felt threatened by anything you have said..or anything Mark has said. In fact, in my entire history with this forum, only once was I angered by anything anyone posted...and that was one post made by Dan Riffle (And I no longer remember what it was about.)
The idea that anything you have said...threatens anyone's self image, ego, ..or their view of the world...is ludicrous.
Like I have said before, the first two years I read your posts, I honestly thought you were a kid..maybe 14 years old. Not generally an impression that inspires fear in the hearts of others.
You have not "struck a nerve". And nobody has ever responded to you in a way that indicated that you have struck a nerve. (unless I've missed something) Although occasionally, I think you may hit someone's funny bone.
Ok, l have seen several examples of this here and elsewhere, (new age forum) and it needn't be anger, it could be incoherent science or blowing something trivial out, so the mods close it, or something else, but it is all designed to protect their identity's.
You see it as ludicrous, since as you have said, you went through a lot as a kid and don't want to touch it.
But that sounds more like a defense mechanism than anything else.
Nothing wrong with that, in and of itself.
I am not perfect either, remember when l thought that the center of the Earth was super-heated Plasma, and after several members bought up good evidence, l succumbed and admitted that my assumption was wrong.
Evidence changed my mind on something that l wanted to believe in, and l accepted it on evidence alone and moved on.
The ego usually requires external events for security, the bigger and more complex the better, which in turn, add's to the virtually impossible task of showing them very good evidence to the contrary.
Evidence becomes something else, and valid reasoning also becomes something else.
Black and white also changes when someone who has their self identity all tied up in the subject matter is threatened.
And nothing wrong with that either apart from the fact that it stifles imagination, and thinking outside of rigid laws, that are in some cases not fully understood.
Some evidence is very good and cannot be dismissed, but to the individuals who do dismiss it, maybe what l have said will help.
Originally Posted by DWolfe
Shane you are getting mad for nothing. No one here cares, they read these posts and move on. Some break your stones because you get mad. If you tell someone they are wrong. All they will do is dig in and defend their position. Let it go and let the thread continue on.
I am getting or got mad since several members rubbished other members about their beliefs in the subject matter.
And l am really clarifying the situation, which may help, overall, and am trying to avoid discussing the subject matter, as have you have said, that don't achieve anything.
Originally Posted by DWolfe
Best selling WSO of the year I made $1000,s the first minute it was live.... " See How to press Claude's buttons" Order now.
Yes, l glimpsed that in the test section, and let's just say, l don't think that obituary testimonials will work?
You see it as ludicrous, since as you have said, you went through a lot as a kid and don't want to touch it.
But that sounds more like a defense mechanism than anything else.
You have missed it by a mile. My upbringing makes me hate ignorance and superstition. To me, it's like a cancer. And I've spent my entire life ridding myself of it.
And...of course...you interpret that as some form of childhood trauma, that makes me fearful of the supernatural....secretly knowing that it's all real.
As a child, yes. As an adult, Not at all.
There isn't anything about your posts...your "evidence" that makes me "not want to touch it".
You continually interpret people's ridicule as some sort of "defense mechanism". You say that we are afraid...as though your insights are just so deep...so powerful...that we are afraid to face the truth. Your truth.
I see these ideas as ludicrous, not because of my upbringing...but because these ideas are ludicrous.
It's as though you were talking about Leprechauns. I say there is no reason to think Leprechauns are real. I even explain a little history, to explain where the idea of Leprechauns came from....
And you insist that we are afraid of Leprechauns. That a childhood trauma has caused me to be defensive about Leprechauns......That your insight into Leprechauns is something we reject out of fear....fear about the truth of Leprechauns.
And when I read your posts on the supernatural.....to me you just sound like an adult man...that believes in Leprechauns. Nothing to fear...nothing to avoid..no defense mechanisms...just silliness.
I just wasted that entire analogy. Too bad. It was actually a good one.
If she was psychic, why did she take her last flight? That didn't end well.
Probably because it isn't easy giving a reading to yourself, and yes John Lennon also had a psychic, (or did it himself) tell him a short time before he got shot that it was going to happen, (there is video footage of that).
Originally Posted by socialentry
Do you still believe the US military has bases on Mars and has engaged in battle with extra-terrestrials?
Lol, there is strong evidence for most things, but the ego see's naught.
I appreciate you asking that in a non biased way, but it is getting off topic and also may give to much ammunition to this subjects detractors.
All l will say is Mars is way different to NASA's dead, rock in space reports, and on rare occasions gold nuggets can be found in the raw data.
No no, tagiscom, it is the off topic forum. It's in the name.
The question is simple:
Do you still believe the US military has bases on Mars and has engaged in battle with extra-terrestrials?
There's only 3 ways you can answer here:
1-Yes I still believe.
2-No I don't believe anymore.
3- I never had these beliefs at all to begin with
It doesn't give ammunition to detractors because as you mentioned,
because in theory you could be mistaken on that one but correct on other things like for example whether or not Harry Potter has a twin sister.
No no, tagiscom, it is the off topic forum. It's in the name.
The question is simple:
Do you still believe the US military has bases on Mars and has engaged in battle with extra-terrestrials?
There's only 3 ways you can answer here:
1-Yes I still believe.
2-No I don't believe anymore.
3- I never had these beliefs at all to begin with
It doesn't give ammunition to detractors because as you mentioned,
because in theory you could be mistaken on that one but correct on other things like for example whether or not Harry Potter has a twin sister.
So... now we've got horoscopes, psychics, Mars and Mandela. If we can squeeze in some crypto posts, we'll be able to close down all the other OT threads.
If we can squeeze in some crypto posts, we'll be able to close down all the other OT threads.
So what is the price of Bitcoin today, do you think it is a good or bad investment. Send me your $1000.00 and Dewey Cheatum & Howe will send you a special report how to avoid bitcoin scams Speaking of watches here you go - https://www.patek.com/en/home just fork over your crypto millions and show your friends some real bling.
And someone who knows that it is real, try's to convince someone who knows that it isn't real, does nothing but shows the difference between evidence borne beliefs and emotional, spitballing.
Shane; Your post (the one I quoted here) was in reply to my story of the 8 Ball I had as a kid.
Are you saying that you think that the 8 Ball has real spiritual or psychic powers?
I really wanted to make sure I understood what you meant, and what you were referring to.
Ever since he was elected, Trump has been the target of Astrologers, astrologists, tea leaf readers, crystal ball genies...and that's just the media.
But we have the PREDICTIONS. So, like it, hate it, could care less...here are some FUN ones to consider, so let us see the fake news unfold, OK?
1) President Trump will either face impeachment or resign between June 2019 and April 2020. Vice President Mike Pence or House Speaker Paul Ryan will replace him. This is the most important prediction. Gurmeet Singh Written on January 20, 2017
2)'Presidents with bad approval ratings usually do badly in the midterms. And Trump's approval rating is bad.' However, this may be one time when the trend is bucked - very Uranian. There may be some surprises in store, just like the General Election! says James Page in Feb. 2018. Means there won't be a blue sweep, GOP holds on.
Maybe somewhere else Page predicts a Democratic victory, just to hedge his bets, er, predictions. He also says Trump is a one term guy.
3) And this GEM from fellow TV star, a TODAY show fav, Sidney Friedman, but not the fictional one from M*A*S*H... "the Democrats will miraculously take over the House of Representatives in the November elections of 2018, maybe even winning as many as 32 seats. At the same time, the Democrats will narrowly come up short in the Senate, though I keep seeing one key state as a virtual tie resulting in recounts and legal challenges. As for the President, Donald Trump leaves office, but he doesn't leave office. Or, he doesn't leave office, but he does leave office."
That is my kind of a prediction, oh what is, is?
4) The most important worry I feel is the prediction I made that a ship will be sunk in the conflict. This could be an American Battleship though my earlier predictions were unclear. (I thought it related to North Korea you may remember). From the psychic (comedy) team of Craig and Jane. Craig Hamilton-Parker. So, N. Korea sinks an American Battleship and TRUMP takes a diplomatic route to resolution. LOL
OK, some future events we can watch unfold. Is Astrology useful?
I found it so, in fact, even studied it with the late great Annie Hershey, a gifted astrologer or a very gifted cold reader. Never was sure.
But it helped me in two ways.
A)-It showed me people will believe anything (and they tend to be an easy market). Lots of money to be made in niches of belief; religion, faith, hope, conspiracy theory, astrology, aliens who started religions. There is no bottom to belief. Shrug it off, or make money from it, whichever suits you.
B) The different types of astrology, natal charts, Vedic, Chinese horoscopes...all dance around the fires of Jung and Campbell, between archtypes and personalities with a little Myers-Briggs tossed on the fire.
It is a need to understand life, and why other people are NOT all the same. And grouping them, is a shortcut. You are Warriors, and share at least ONE thing, being here and joining the group. Probably enough for some to call you cult members.
I found the 12 Sun Signs, as taught by Linda Goodman to be useful tools, when gathering intel on the other person. Just as someone might find the Myers-Briggs a useful tool (surprising how it is still being used).
Anyhow, enough TIME spent on Astrology, you sub-cultists who hang in the OFF TOPIC forum, are the most fun, interesting Warriors of all. I predict great things for you all, or so says my Ouija Board.
B) The different types of astrology, natal charts, Vedic, Chinese horoscopes...all dance around the fires of Jung and Campbell, between archtypes and personalities with a little Myers-Briggs tossed on the fire.
So....my first thought is...do they all tell us the same thing about ourselves? Do they agree with each other?
In other words, you have your horoscope done by a "Professional".
Now you have the following done by different "Professionals" in the following "sciences"......
Augury: by the flight of birds.
Bazi or four pillars: by hour, day, month, and year of birth.
Bibliomancy: by books; frequently, but not always, religious texts.
Cartomancy: by playing cards, tarot cards, or oracle cards.
Ceromancy: by patterns in melting or dripping wax.
Chiromancy: by the shape of the hands and lines in the palms.
Chronomancy: by determination of lucky and unlucky days.
Clairvoyance: by spiritual vision or inner sight.
Cleromancy: by casting of lots, or casting bones or stones.
Cold reading: by using visual and aural clues.
Crystallomancy: by crystal ball also called scrying.
Extispicy: by the entrails of animals.
Face reading: by means of variations in face and head shape.
Feng shui: by earthen harmony.
Gastromancy: by stomach-based ventriloquism (historically).
Geomancy: by markings in the ground, sand, earth, or soil.
Haruspicy: by the livers of sacrificed animals.
Horary astrology: the astrology of the time the question was asked.
Hydromancy: by water.
I Ching divination: by yarrow stalks or coins and the I Ching.
Kau cim by means of numbered bamboo sticks shaken from a tube.
Lithomancy: by stones or gems.
Necromancy: by the dead, or by spirits or souls of the dead.
Nephelomancy: by shapes of clouds.
Numerology: by numbers.
Oneiromancy: by dreams.
Onomancy: by names.
Palmistry: by lines and mounds on the hand.
Parrot astrology: by parakeets picking up fortune cards
Paper fortune teller: origami used in fortune-telling games
Pendulum reading: by the movements of a suspended object.
Pyromancy: by gazing into fire.
Rhabdomancy: divination by rods.
Runecasting or Runic divination: by runes.
Scrying: by looking at or into reflective objects.
Spirit board: by planchette or talking board.
Taromancy: by a form of cartomancy using tarot cards.
Tasseography or tasseomancy: by tea leaves or coffee grounds.
Ureamancy: by gazing upon the foamy froth of urine created within water.
Now, do they all agree on your character? Your future? Even in the most general terms?
The reason I ask, is that real science...the real sciences...always agree with one another. The biologist isn't getting a different result than the geologist, archaeologist, or the physicist.
You see, reality is the same, no matter which science you use. No matter what scientific tool you use to figure out reality...you get the same result, or at least non-conflicting complimentary results.
But what if the chicken guts tell you something different from your astrology reading....or the spiritualist tells you something different than reading the tea leaves, or the yarrow sticks, or the crystal ball, or the lines in your hand, or the shape of clouds, or what you dreamed the night before?
What if each "divining system" tells you a different story?
Good God! It's almost like they are all...just...made...up. But that can't be true. That would mean that some of us are idiots. And that cannot be true.
So....my first thought is...do they all tell us the same thing about ourselves? Do they agree with each other?
In other words, you have your horoscope done by a "Professional".
Now you have the following done by different "Professionals" in the following "sciences"......
Augury: by the flight of birds.
Bazi or four pillars: by hour, day, month, and year of birth.
Bibliomancy: by books; frequently, but not always, religious texts.
Cartomancy: by playing cards, tarot cards, or oracle cards.
Ceromancy: by patterns in melting or dripping wax.
Chiromancy: by the shape of the hands and lines in the palms.
Chronomancy: by determination of lucky and unlucky days.
Clairvoyance: by spiritual vision or inner sight.
Cleromancy: by casting of lots, or casting bones or stones.
Cold reading: by using visual and aural clues.
Crystallomancy: by crystal ball also called scrying.
Extispicy: by the entrails of animals.
Face reading: by means of variations in face and head shape.
Feng shui: by earthen harmony.
Gastromancy: by stomach-based ventriloquism (historically).
Geomancy: by markings in the ground, sand, earth, or soil.
Haruspicy: by the livers of sacrificed animals.
Horary astrology: the astrology of the time the question was asked.
Hydromancy: by water.
I Ching divination: by yarrow stalks or coins and the I Ching.
Kau cim by means of numbered bamboo sticks shaken from a tube.
Lithomancy: by stones or gems.
Necromancy: by the dead, or by spirits or souls of the dead.
Nephelomancy: by shapes of clouds.
Numerology: by numbers.
Oneiromancy: by dreams.
Onomancy: by names.
Palmistry: by lines and mounds on the hand.
Parrot astrology: by parakeets picking up fortune cards
Paper fortune teller: origami used in fortune-telling games
Pendulum reading: by the movements of a suspended object.
Pyromancy: by gazing into fire.
Rhabdomancy: divination by rods.
Runecasting or Runic divination: by runes.
Scrying: by looking at or into reflective objects.
Spirit board: by planchette or talking board.
Taromancy: by a form of cartomancy using tarot cards.
Tasseography or tasseomancy: by tea leaves or coffee grounds.
Ureamancy: by gazing upon the foamy froth of urine created within water.
Now, do they all agree on your character? Your future? Even in the most general terms?
The reason I ask, is that real science...the real sciences...always agree with one another. The biologist isn't getting a different result than the geologist, archaeologist, or the physicist.
You see, reality is the same, no matter which science you use. No matter what scientific tool you use to figure out reality...you get the same result, or at least non-conflicting complimentary results.
But what if the chicken guts tell you something different from your astrology reading....or the spiritualist tells you something different than reading the tea leaves, or the yarrow sticks, or the crystal ball, or the lines in your hand, or the shape of clouds, or what you dreamed the night before?
What if each "divining system" tells you a different story?
Good God! It's almost like they are all...just...made...up. But that can't be true. That would mean that some of us are idiots. And that cannot be true.
Even if he didn't actually say it, all agree with PT Barnum, "There is a sucker born every minute."
Made up? Like religions?
OR, as Dan Kennedy might put it, take their money or they'll give it to someone else.
Even if he didn't actually say it, all agree with PT Barnum, "There is a sucker born every minute."
Made up? Like religions?
OR, as Dan Kennedy might put it, take their money or they'll give it to someone else.
GordonJ
the interesting thing is barnum never said that or there is no record.. there is a record of someone a famous banker .. using it as a pejorative line to describe the people who spent money or fell for barnum's shows or hoaxes ..
human nature has not changed much in a hundred or a thousand years ..
the interesting thing is barnum never said that or there is no record.. there is a record of someone a famous banker .. using it as a pejorative line to describe the people who spent money or fell for barnum's shows or hoaxes ..
human nature has not changed much in a hundred or a thousand years ..
Show me the record. Who? I'll eat my shorts if you produce a reliable source. What Barnum did or didn't say, or whomever said, about whatever...really doesn't matter. But the saying seems to have stuck, based on what he was selling. And speaking of selling, that isn't a science either.
Someone who hates carpet (like Me) and has hardwood floors, would say the same thing about someone who spent a 1000 bux on a Rainbow or Kirby or any other vacuum cleaner.
Yet the vacuum salesman, (and still today, salespeople are regarded as sleazy and manipulators)...who sells the 500 dollar cleaners, would see things differently, wouldn't he?
Maybe it wasn't PT., maybe it was Claude or Gordon, or TRUMP.
The bottom line is opinion. If yours is to buy astrology, and 1,000 dollar sweepers, then check out the Hoover Aquarius model, it sucks money out of your wallet faster than a ....
Someone who hates carpet (like Me) and has hardwood floors, would say the same thing about someone who spent a 1000 bux on a Rainbow or Kirby or any other vacuum cleaner.
Yet the vacuum salesman, (and still today, salespeople are regarded as sleazy and manipulators)...who sells the 500 dollar cleaners, would see things differently, wouldn't he?
Don't laugh. I have people every day come in to buy a vacuum cleaner that have all hardwood floors and leather furniture...and buy $500-$1,000 vacuum cleaners.
Personally, many of the people that buy expensive vacuums from me, buy for reasons I find nonsensical.
I found nearly every buying decision (To buy or not to buy) to be made for reasons that baffled me. My job was to find out what those reasons were, and sell them what made them happy.
My job wasn't to approve of their reasons, but to understand them... and then capitalize on them.
And when speaking to groups, I couldn't let my own objectivity get in the way of how I sold. I had to appeal to the wannabe, the beginners, the experienced....and I had to create appeals that made my stomach churn. But if I didn't, they wouldn't buy.
I don't drink the Kool-Aid...I sell the Kool-Aid....I serve the Kool-Aid...but I don't drink it.
Personally, I wish people wanted carrot juice....but they don't. They want Kool-Aid.
And when speaking to groups, I couldn't let my own objectivity get in the way of how I sold. I had to appeal to the wannabe, the beginners, the experienced....and I had to create appeals that made my stomach churn. But if I didn't they wouldn't buy.
I don't drink the Kool-Aid...I sell the Kool-Aid....I serve the Kool-Aid...but I don't drink it.
Personally, I wish people wanted carrot juice....but they don't. They want Kool-Aid.
well it's not really the koolaid thing.. as i doubt what you are selling is causing any harm.. and if someone wants a better vacuum than the one a friend or family member just bought.. hey they will buy it from someone ..
People make money to get joy in spending it how they please .. yes that means only a small number of people build wealth.. but it is much easier for them..and there is more money flowing through the system for everyone providing some value to make more money.. and with more wealth around the world ..there is plenty of money being spent on whar seem like nonsense to others .or to the people selling stuff .. they just know people buy .
these very special wine glasses make wine taste better and only cost 10 -100 x more than regular wine glasses .. let all your snobby friend know just how much you are willing to spend..and let them know where to buy .. so they can have the same experience you do.. be the one your friends want to be like
Buy are glacial water bottle from melting glacial snow deep beneath the surface of the glacier and exposed to special atlantian energized crystal ..free of any modern pollutants ..only 90$ for a 16 Pack of 16 ounce bottles
well it's not really the koolaid thing.. as i doubt what you are selling is causing any harm.. and if someone wants a better vacuum than the one a friend or family member just bought.. hey they will buy it from someone ..
People make money to get joy in spending it how they please .. yes that means only a small number of people build wealth.. but it is much easier for them..and there is more money flowing through the system for everyone providing some value to make more money.. and with more wealth around the world ..there is plenty of money being spent on whar seem like nonsense to others .or to the people selling stuff .. they just know people buy .
these very special wine glasses make wine taste better and only cost 10 -100 x more than regular wine glasses .. let all your snobby friend know just how much you are willing to spend..and let them know where to buy .. so they can have the same experience you do.. be the one your friends want to be like
Buy are glacial water bottle from melting glacial snow deep beneath the surface of the glacier and exposed to special atlantian energized crystal ..free of any modern pollutants ..only 90$ for a 16 Pack of 16 ounce bottles
A friend of mine bought a Rolex watch. I asked him how much it cost, and he said...very proudly ...that is cost him about $8,000.
I told him I bought a new watch for $8,000 as well. He asked me the brand, and I said 'It's a Chrysler". He looked at me funny, and I said "It's a new kind of watch that tells the time, has a radio and CD player...even has air conditioning...and has a car wrapped around it."
I get the "Rolex" thing though. It's like a club. It tells salespeople "Look at this. I'll easily spend thousands of dollars for a watch. What have you got to show me?"
A friend of mine bought a Rolex watch. I asked him how much it cost, and he said...very proudly ...that is cost him about $8,000.
I told him I bought a new watch for $8,000 as well. He asked me the brand, and I said 'It's a Chrysler". He looked at me funny, and I said "It's a new kind of watch that tells the time, has a radio and CD player...even has air conditioning...and has a car wrapped around it."
I get the "Rolex" thing though. It's like a club. It tells salespeople "Look at this. I'll easily spend thousands of dollars for a watch. What have you got to show me?"
My boss recently paid $11 grand for a Rolex. I told him his phone has a clock in it.
I paid $350 for a smart watch. My buddy informed me that my phone has a clock in it.
A friend of mine bought a Rolex watch. I asked him how much it cost, and he said...very proudly ...that is cost him about $8,000.
I told him I bought a new watch for $8,000 as well. He asked me the brand, and I said 'It's a Chrysler". He looked at me funny, and I said "It's a new kind of watch that tells the time, has a radio and CD player...even has air conditioning...and has a car wrapped around it."
I get the "Rolex" thing though. It's like a club. It tells salespeople "Look at this. I'll easily spend thousands of dollars for a watch. What have you got to show me?"
i understand the rolex thing .. and in playing online games that make all their money of micro transactions .. and playing with people who could and wood spend 500 $ or $1000 in a week on a game .. then from being in vegas working on the strip seeing where people spent huge chunk of money for just a quick photo .. and on other things ..
the people who buy the 10,000 dollar watch .. put themselves in a club with other people who do the same kind of thing..and seperate themselves from those who can't ..or would never dream of doing such a thing ..
with astrology a lot of those who follow it have friends who do or people they can compare their horoscopes to.. and it is something that take some of the boredom out of their lives .. at little cost for most ..
it's not a facet of their religion..as it seem to be for some ..not naming names ..
Even if he didn't actually say it, all agree with PT Barnum, "There is a sucker born every minute."
Made up? Like religions?
Exactly like religions.
Someone here years ago (someone I disagreed with a lot) said that religions were the first attempt at science. And I have to agree.
When you are walking, and feel a breeze at your back..what is it?
If you were born 1,000 years ago, you would probably assume that you were being pushed..guided...to go in that direction...by an invisible hand. . But who is guiding you? And for what purpose? And thus a religion is started.
A woman is seen singing to herself. The next day a cow drops dead...surely the singing woman is a witch. Cause..and effect.
Rituals are built along with any belief system. And..even if eventually the belief system is shown to be nonsense...the rituals remain. If you look at any of the origins to any of our holiday rituals, you'll find a completely different origin, and meaning, than you expect...
Someone here years ago (someone I disagreed with a lot) said that religions were the first attempt at science. And I have to agree.
When you are walking, and feel a breeze at your back..what is it?
If you were born 1,000 years ago, you would probably assume that you were being pushed..guided...to go in that direction...by an invisible hand. . But who is guiding you? And for what purpose? And thus a religion is started.
A woman is seen singing to herself. The next day a cow drops dead...surely the singing woman is a witch. Cause..and effect.
Rituals are built along with any belief system. And..even if eventually the belief system is shown to be nonsense...the rituals remain. If you look at any of the origins to any of our holiday rituals, you'll find a completely different origin, and meaning, than you expect...
To be fair to the witch burning crowd, most business owners (and 95 % of the WF) believe that causation = correlation or that data is the plural of anecdotes.
According to some reports I've read, nearly a quarter of the population believes in astrology (perhaps more, secretly). I believe in making money from this.
According to some reports I've read, nearly a quarter of the population believes in astrology (perhaps more, secretly). I believe in making money from this.
saying you believe in astrology is one thing.. but how many people actually change how they go about their day based on the horoscope they read in the morning ..
probably a small fraction of a percent ..it does not matter how valid it is if it was a proven science ..if no one follows the advice of the horoscope..
hell you can read over a dozen different prediction..and chose the one that is the most interesting to follow today..and just may have an improved day ..even if your a picieces and today you felt you wanted to follow there virtigo horoscope
( blah have to point out the joke of spelling it virtigo instead of virgo )
saying you believe in astrology is one thing.. but how many people actually change how they go about their day based on the horoscope they read in the morning ..
probably a small fraction of a percent ..it does not matter how valid it is if it was a proven science ..if no one follows the advice of the horoscope..
hell you can read over a dozen different prediction..and chose the one that is the most interesting to follow today..and just may have an improved day ..even if your a picieces and today you felt you wanted to follow there virtigo horoscope
( blah have to point out the joke of spelling it virtigo instead of virgo )
They really are a surprising number of people who actually do change their judgement and behavior daily based on a horoscope.
But there is also a huge segment of the population who want to believe astrology is not a true science and that their destinies really are self-determinant.
They really are a surprising number of people who actually do change their judgement and behavior daily based on a horoscope.
Sad.
But there is also a huge segment of the population who want to believe astrology is not a true science and that their destinies really are self-determinant.
These are referred to in the scientific community as individuals with an IQ over room temperature.
They really are a surprising number of people who actually do change their judgement and behavior daily based on a horoscope.
Originally Posted by OptedIn
Sad.
Not for the marketers who are exploiting this niche.
Originally Posted by myob
But there is also a huge segment of the population who want to believe astrology is not a true science and that their destinies really are self-determinant.
Originally Posted by OptedIn
These are referred to in the scientific community as individuals with an IQ over room temperature.
Marketing on this side of the niche border (debunking astrology for humanism and self-actualization) is like taking candy from a baby.
Marketing on this side of the niche border (debunking astrology for humanism and self-actualization) is like taking candy from a baby.
True. But the books promoting anything "spiritual" has a far larger audience.
For example, a book on "cold reading" that is geared toward believers will outsell , by 100 to 1, a book on the actual techniques of cold reading, geared toward rationalists.
Unfortunately, you do not get paid based on how intelligent your audience is.
Added later;
I should clarify something. Yes, the higher a person'e education, the less religious they tend to be. The higher their IQ, the less they tend to believe in things like Astrology.
But there are very intelligent and highly educated people...that are still very religious. And some of them believe in things that some of us would scoff at.
True. But the books promoting anything "spiritual" has a far larger audience.
For example, a book on "cold reading" that is geared toward believers will outsell , by 100 to 1, a book on the actual techniques of cold reading, geared toward rationalists.
Unfortunately, you do not get paid based on how intelligent your audience is.
It fortunate actually..you said it yourself most of the people who buy info products.. are buying the dream of making a lot of money or having and spending a lot of money.. and not really interested in doing the work or even really making.. just having the dream ..
and occasionally someone actually does the work and builds a business.. but you would not make any money if only those people bought ..
the same thing goes on with astrology.. or purchasing kitchen gadgets that will turn you into an amazing cook.. of infomercials.. blah blah blah
unless you are already real inteligent.. it's hard to sell to other intelligent people ..or stuff they will buy.. your choice is really will you make money without taking advantage of people in ways that do long term damage .. if you sell them something for throw away money.. and they put it on the shelf and dream of the things they will do when they actually use it ..
even if you sell high quality vegetables to people chance are about half of what people buy and spend good money on will end up in the trash.. or cooked and left on the plate ..then in the trash
I don't actually believ in a single entity hat is responsible for the bad thing everyone does.. i do believe the human nature as it is want to blame something else for nearly every bad thing the do or any bad thing that happens ..
"oh my horoscope warned said this would happen" i just haven't figured out the way to use law of attractiong yet " my subconscious is full of bad habits that are so hard to change" " it wasn't me it was my damn ego i gotta kill it before i can live a good life "
the human mind filters information ..so like the law of attraction....astrology just puts people in a mindset to look for information or events they probably wood filter out and not register as happening
Aw, c'mon Sweetiepoppets -- thing superclear 'bout alla the astroschwango crackin' off here is how it got people real fired up 'bout OTHER STUFF.
An' I would wanna posit how any kinda discourse ultimately drills down on way core stuff you always am an' always wanna.
So ... toward which ARCHETYPE VESTIBULE you wanna turn?
What model invites communion between whatchyoo got an' the people figure ... hey, THAT ONE is the gal I wanna wanna?
Magnesium science mebbe delivers, but we all know our feelings ain't so firecracker sure.
Sumtimes we rock out, sumtimes we way feeble.
But wherever we are in whatevah we got, always there is narrative flingin' nounsy objectstuffs around via verbiture acts either for us or agin us -- an' I would wish always for anywan got proclamatory honors (either bcs they sellin' shotguns to kids or peddlin' lame astrology) -- to mebbe at least figure we all people steada spreadsheet fodder.
Yes, but Princess, I am a GEMINI -- what precisely does this mean for me?
tbh I got no problem with selfies, but plz do not be bringin' yrself off at the same time while postin' out to zillions.
I gave this a little thought. It would be really difficult for you to make me angry. Every insult would be taken as a game, a playful gesture...even a deeply personal insult.
And if you ever said anything that struck a nerve, I would PM you to make sure you were serious...and make sure I understood what you were saying. And I would ask you why you said it.
And...in the highly unlikely event that you jumped through those hoops, and I was actually angered by what you said...
I would hang you by your neck, until you promised to cheer up.
I truly have no idea. I've said so many horrible (but factually accurate) things to and about Claude over the years that I'm surprised it only happened once.
My guess, though, is that it occurred within a serious discussion rather than our more typically inane banter. There's a specific way to push Claude's buttons and you can tell he's getting irritated. I don't do it anymore because it's not as fun and he can see it coming now so the technique isn't as effective from me. Maybe I should sell the process as a WSO...
Claude...in regards to your question you sent via PM asking me to consult my Magic 8 Ball. No, I don't think your new business idea to offer funeral services to deceased donut lovers called Krispy Kremation is a good idea.
Claude...in regards to your question you sent via PM asking me to consult my Magic 8 Ball. No, I don't think your new business idea to offer funeral services to deceased donut lovers called Krispy Kremation is a good idea.
It's still a lot better than the funeral service he pitched at me targeting well endowed men. I thought "Fire Grilled Whoppers" was a lousy idea.
Claude...in regards to your question you sent via PM asking me to consult my Magic 8 Ball. No, I don't think your new business idea to offer funeral services to deceased donut lovers called Krispy Kremation is a good idea.
Krispy Kremation is trademarked. Use it and I'll sue you.
Krispy Kremation is trademarked. Use it and I'll sue you.
Our motto is "Don't worry, they can't feel it".
Yes...I'm a marketing genius.
We'll have to disagree...I don't think your necrophilia complex will be good for marketing. But it does give a logical explanation for all those angry ghosts.
We'll have to disagree...I don't think your necrophilia complex will be good for marketing. But it does give a logical explanation for all those angry ghosts.
You mean those incredibly satisfied ghosts? Why do you think they hang around?
By the way, you're a marketer so you may appreciate this.
I was doing a seminar on advertising to a group of business owners. One lady told me that she owned a funeral parlor. She asked me about marketing. Somehow, she mentioned that she had 3 employees that were all women.
I said "Advertise that. Be the funeral home that is specializing in women...wives. Let it be known that no man will touch the departed wife...no man will see her. No man will prepare her. Just women. Seriously, there are men that would cross state lines to hold the service with you."
You mean those incredibly satisfied ghosts? Why do you think they hang around?
By the way, you're a marketer so you may appreciate this.
I was doing a seminar of advertising to a group of business owners. One lady told me that she owned a funeral parlor. She asked me about marketing. Somehow, she mentioned that she had 3 employees that were all women.
I said "Advertise that. Be the funeral home that is specializing in women...wives. Let it be known that no man will touch the departed wife...no man will see her. No man will prepare her. Just women. Seriously, there are men that would cross state lines to hold the service with you."
I would have suggested she marketed to folks that believed in reincarnation...for the repeat business.
claude .. i don't want to sound elitists or what ever this may sound like or read like ..
but i will not try to justify my beliefs to someone determined ..to not believe anything that can't be verified by science .. and what can be measured by science.. there is nothing i can put in this thread that would give you the slightest bit of understanding ..
now to others .. who may be willing to play with the concept .. the energy i am referring to is an emotional energy ..that can get stuck and held in an area or location.. and be felt by other people sensative to such things .. and effect their emotional state ..
now where do humans actually get their energy from .. is it the calories they eat the soul source of the energy they have .. because then at least the same person eating the same mount of calories would have the same energy every day.. and everyone same hight same weight same physical build .. would have the same energy from the same calories ..
but emotional state has a bigger factor on energy level than many other factors so people in the same emotional states tend to have similar energy levels
now maybe i am claiming there is something we can't measure yet ..that imprints something in an environment that changes people emotional states
now maybe a musty large 200 year old basement in a building that is decaying.. being an environment people expect to have ghosts .. those condiots create the emotinal energy that make people think the see ghosts
is it the calories they eat the soul source of the energy they have .. because then at least the same person eating the same mount of calories would have the same energy every day.. and everyone same hight same weight same physical build .. would have the same energy from the same calories ..
Huh. But one has their fat ass in a hammock all day and the other jogs 7 miles per day. No way they are winding up with the same weight or build.
You're going to do a helluva lot better than that. That concept is scientifically and intellectually bankrupt.
Huh. But one has their fat ass in a hammock all day and the other jogs 7 miles per day. No way they are winding up with the same weight or build.
You're going to do a helluva lot better than that. That concept is scientifically and intellectually bankrupt.
did i say anything about where they will end up.. i wrote.. two people with the same height weight and build eating the same caloric level through the day would have the same energy level..if it was just calories that dictated energy levels ..
of course those other factor are emotional state and the activity level
what i am saying is emotional level is more what giv action anergy ..than calories ..now the source of those calories can easily change emotional state and change the action state .. for 1,000 different reasons
did i say anything about where they will end up.. i wrote.. two people with the same height weight and build eating the same caloric level through the day would have the same energy level..if it was just calories that dictated energy levels ..
of course those other factor are emotional state and the activity level
what i am saying is emotional level is more what giv action anergy ..than calories ..now the source of those calories can easily change emotional state and change the action state .. for 1,000 different reasons
Sorry - you're words can be confusing. You have admitted as much. If you are going to present or defend a position, you owe it to everyone to slow down and be clear, concise and not in the least bit confusing.
With all of that taken into consideration, we are still left with the following.
This is all conjecture, rooted in your personal beliefs, therefore meaningless to anyone but you. That said, you're certainly welcome to believe in anything you like, but if you expect others to agree with you, you have crossed the line into unrealistic expectation.
Some people believe in trickle-down economics. Go figure.
Myself - I'm a dues-payin', card-carryin' member of Claude's club. If you can't prove it by applying the scientific method, well . . . . . . . . there's nothing else to say, but I'll say it anyway. It's rubbish. That's all I'll say as to continue to debate something I have no belief in is not a good use of my time.
It's not as if anyone will every convince you to see the world differently as it relates to this topic. Right?
Myself - I'm a dues-payin', card-carryin' member of Claude's club. If you can't prove it by applying the scientific method, well . . . . . .
I appreciate the vote of confidence. But my bar is really lower than that.
One decent argument would make me change my mind, or at least look into it further. But in every book I've read (on paranormal subjects), every video I've watched, every "documentary", and every post on any forum I've visited and read...
The evidence is a jumble of irrational conclusions made by mistakes in reasoning...based on suppositions..most of which are already proven wrong.
and I've looked..always with the idea of "finding out"...learning more.. Never with the idea of proving a belief to be wrong. That's sloppy thinking. Bad reasoning.
Really...just....one...decent...argument...One point made that is a solid piece of reasoning.
And unfortunately, all solid pieces of reasoning I've ever seen, point away from the supernatural. I've never seen an exception. There has never been a discovery that something supernatural is true...or real. I would have thought that this fact alone would bring doubt.
I appreciate the vote of confidence. But my bar is really lower than that.
One decent argument would make me change my mind, or at least look into it further. But in every book I've read (on paranormal subjects), every video I've watched, every "documentary", and every post on any forum I've visited and read...
The evidence is a jumble of irrational conclusions made by mistakes in reasoning...based on suppositions..most of which are already proven wrong.
and I've looked..always with the idea of "finding out"...learning more.. Never with the idea of proving a belief to be wrong. That's sloppy thinking. Bad reasoning.
Really...just....one...decent...argument...One point made that is a solid piece of reasoning.
And unfortunately, all solid pieces of reasoning I've ever seen, point away from the supernatural. I've never seen an exception. There has never been a discovery that something supernatural is true...or real. I would have thought that this fact alone would bring doubt.
But no.
Unfortunately, there is no solid argument, no reasoning to be had. It is mostly subjective experience on an unprecedented scale. Sometimes a subjective, collective experience.
You have just never had one. Until something comes along to prove it's existence scientifically there is nothing for you. People report it, Science cannot prove or disprove it at the moment. Science is work in progress, always..
Out of all the millions (discarding my exclusions) that have had these experiences, not all of which probably will come forward because of fear or ridicule. Do you realize that a whole new set of words, a sort of language has come out of it (the energies etc), those who have had various experiences can more easily identify with it. It came about because conventional speak could not accurately describe it.Without experiencing it, you currently have no hope of accepting or understanding.
Let's say you are doing a speech in a small hall at capacity crowd of 250. A small dwarf like man enters stage left with a shotgun and blows your head off. Witnessed by 250 people. No dignitaries were there, no cameras, no law enforcement, just the crowd see's it. The little dwarf guy is quite smart and has planned his exit, he has a place to drop the gun to the bowles of the Earth and a impregnated cloth of his own devising that can quickly remove all traces of powder burns which he applies while making his exit.He also drops the cloth to the bowles of the Earth
One flaw though, short legs, he cannot run so fast. The crowd quickly catches up with him and overpowers him.
So, in the trial, 250 witnesses positively identify him as the killer, no forensics, no science, he is convicted by overwhelmingly collective, subjective evidence.
So, your doing another speech, same hall, same amount of people, same situation. This time you say: "excuse me" I need to pop out for a dounut. While you are gone, suddenly the ghostly presence of a little dwarf like guy enters and passes through people and objects (making them feel cold), floats around for a while, goes onto the stage and knocks the lectern over and exits through the roof. You return and the crowd describes this ghostly little guy with a goatee beard just terrorized all of them for 5 minutes and disappeared. An hour later you get a call saying that Dan Riffle has been killed by a car with Australian number plates..
Alright, silly little stories I know, but it is illustrative of "collective subjectivity". Everyone sees and says the same, whatever there vantage point. Over the years, one thing that has been established is the uniformity of these experiences, the common ground, the repetition, even categorization, and of course the verbiage invented to describe.
So, although it is not used in science, I ask that you consider subjective, or collective subjective observation as having some validity when making your deliberations
There are many wild and wacky theories based on the grounding of Quantum Physics coming out of the woodwork at the moment. They are coming from people who are physicists, scientists, people of letters, not just Youtube nuts. They are generally pointing to a more esoteric existence. Just an observation.
Unfortunately, there is no solid argument, no reasoning to be had. It is mostly subjective experience on an unprecedented scale. Sometimes a subjective, collective experience.
A billion people believing in ghosts is no more reason to think that they are real... than the other 6 billion not believing in them means that they are not real. So if 90% of the people you meet have never seen a ghost...does that mean they don't exist? No. See? Your argument, even in reverse...is nonsense.
Originally Posted by lanfear63
You have just never had one.
That's simply not true. I've told you before that I saw my father's ghost. I've felt presences, seen things that aren't there. I'm just not fooled by my imagination.
Originally Posted by lanfear63
Science cannot prove or disprove it at the moment.
Nothing can ever prove any negative. We can just find reality based explanations that better fit the facts. And we can prove that alternative theory. I (and a few others) post about those, they just don't taste good.
Originally Posted by lanfear63
Let's say you are doing a speech in a small hall at capacity crowd of 250. A small dwarf like man enters stage left with a shotgun and blows your head off. Witnessed by 250 people. No dignitaries were there, no cameras, no law enforcement, just the crowd see's it. The little dwarf guy is quite smart and has planned his exit, he has a place to drop the gun to the bowles of the Earth and a impregnated cloth of his own devising that can quickly remove all traces of powder burns which he applies while making his exit.He also drops the cloth to the bowles of the Earth
So, in the trial, 250 witnesses positively identify him as the killer, no forensics, no science, he is convicted by overwhelmingly collective, subjective evidence.
That's the root of our problem. There is plenty of evidence. There is a body. There is blood. There are communications between our victim and the ugly dwarf. There is a pile of evidence. In all of our discussions about the supernatural, my metaphorical question is "Where is the body?" There is always a body.
Originally Posted by lanfear63
So, your doing another speech, same hall, same amount of people, same situation. This time you say: "excuse me" I need to pop out for a dounut. While you are gone, suddenly the ghostly presence of a little dwarf like guy enters and passes through people and objects (making them feel cold), floats around for a while, goes onto the stage and knocks the lectern over and exits through the roof. You return and the crowd describes this ghostly little guy with a goatee beard just terrorized all of them for 5 minutes and disappeared. An hour later you get a call saying that Dan Riffle has been killed by a car with Australian number plates..
And nobody filmed it? It left no residue? No prints? I would believe the audience. Then I would look to see how the effect was created. And I would find it.
Originally Posted by lanfear63
So, although it is not used in science, I ask that you consider subjective, or collective subjective observation as having some validity when making your deliberations
No. Not stories of collective observations. And if the observations are of impossible occurrences, I would figure out what really happened. I would not accept the most preposterous conclusion as the most likely one.
Originally Posted by lanfear63
There are many wild and wacky theories based on the grounding of Quantum Physics coming out of the woodwork at the moment. They are coming from people who are physicists, scientists, people of letters, not just Youtube nuts. They are generally pointing to a more esoteric existence. Just an observation.
None of these real science theories point..at all...to anything supernatural. That is purely wishful thinking on your part. (And some Youtube video conspiracy theorists) You are just taking a spotty understanding and shaping it into your preferred world view. "Quantum Physics". Jesus, I thought we were going to stop saying "Quantum physics" as a catch word to add credibility to every string of nonsense that our imaginations concoct.
As I've said before. No discovery has ever pointed to the supernatural. Never. All new discoveries, all new facts...point in a different direction. There has never been an exception. To me, that fact fairly screams for your attention.
That's simply not true. I've told you before that I saw my father's ghost. I've felt presences, seen things that aren't there. I'm just not fooled by my imagination.
.
When it comes to a family member or loved ones death. It could be the mind has suffered a mental trauma that may produce these images. Spoke to a women who lost her husband do to a Heart Attack. That night she swore her husband was staring at her late at night for about a second or two. Never saw him again. I have experince something similar but don't believe it is super natural, just the mind healing some how. Just my .02 but people see sense something and make up a story to go along with it.
You have missed it by a mile. My upbringing makes me hate ignorance and superstition. To me, it's like a cancer. And I've spent my entire life ridding myself of it.
And...of course...you interpret that as some form of childhood trauma, that makes me fearful of the supernatural....secretly knowing that it's all real.
As a child, yes. As an adult, Not at all.
Ok, you hate anything paranormal because you believe that it is all nonsense, but what if it isn't all nonsense?
If l or Lanfear who have been here for some time, with pretty pristine track records, mentions something paranormal, then it should inject some doubt.
There isn't anything about your posts...your "evidence" that makes me "not want to touch it".
You continually interpret people's ridicule as some sort of "defense mechanism". You say that we are afraid...as though your insights are just so deep...so powerful...that we are afraid to face the truth. Your truth.
Not my truth, all human beings have the same mental setup, when they are adults.
Consciously no, just p****ed off, at the discussion. And l am talking about deeper down.
My insights are in the eye of the beholder.
I see these ideas as ludicrous, not because of my upbringing...but because these ideas are ludicrous.
It's as though you were talking about Leprechauns. I say there is no reason to think Leprechauns are real. I even explain a little history, to explain where the idea of Leprechauns came from....
And you insist that we are afraid of Leprechauns. That a childhood trauma has caused me to be defensive about Leprechauns......That your insight into Leprechauns is something we reject out of fear....fear about the truth of Leprechauns.
And when I read your posts on the supernatural.....to me you just sound like an adult man...that believes in Leprechauns. Nothing to fear...nothing to avoid..no defense mechanisms...just silliness.
I just wasted that entire analogy. Too bad. It was actually a good one.
Yes, true, but if very good evidence is given, then it needs to be considered, silly does not come into it, only evidence.
I don't believe in a flat Earth, because of the mountain of evidence going against it, and the gaping inconsistencies with satellites and such.
But l will believe in something if the evidence is there or l have experienced it first hand.
As for the ego, it is usually subconscious and does play a part in ignoring valid evidence, anger and other manifestations.
"A billion people believing in ghosts is no more reason to think that they are real... than the other 6 billion not believing in them means that they are not real. So if 90% of the people you meet have never seen a ghost...does that mean they don't exist? No. See? Your argument, even in reverse...is nonsense"
Now that's twisting my words. I'm not talking about believing in ghosts, I'm taking about the 5% ratio of all human experience that are credible, not insane people who have reported seeing ghosts, either individually or collectively. That represents millions.
"That's simply not true. I've told you before that I saw my father's ghost. I've felt presences, seen things that aren't there. I'm just not fooled by my imagination."
No, I maintain that you have never had the experience, you have said you have seen your father which when you have approached it turned out to be a hanging coat or something, that's what you told me. As for creaking floorboards etc, that does not count for much. When you have a true experience you will know, I speak from experience. If you had anything like a true experience it would be more your mind saying., I have to discount that as credible/real since I can't conceive it existing.
"Nothing can ever prove any negative. We can just find reality based explanations that better fit the facts. And we can prove that alternative theory. I (and a few others) post about those, they just don't taste good."
I have discounted 95 percent of the population to pay lip service to that.
"That's the root of our problem. There is plenty of evidence. There is a body. There is blood. There are communications between our victim and the ugly dwarf. There is a pile of evidence. In all of our discussions about the supernatural, my metaphorical question is "Where is the body?" There is always a body."
That was addressed my opening statement, followed by my examples to compel you to give "Collective Subjectivity" some lip service.
"And nobody filmed it? It left no residue? No prints? I would believe the audience. Then I would look to see how the effect was created. And I would find it".
The example was to show collective experience, a ghost would of course leave no prints. Riffle is described to you by 250 people, an hour later you get the phone call from 100's of miles away that he had been run over. What, where and how and more importantly why would this ghostly deception be conceived. Invalid argument
".No. Not stories of collective observations. And if the observations are of impossible occurrences, I would figure out what really happened. I would not accept the most preposterous conclusion as the most likely one."
To say that it is simply impossible occurrences "all the time" shows a resistance to take on new information and seek to rationalize it whatever it takes. Even if it does mean to incorporate some forward thinking ideas and theories into your thinking.
" None of these real science theories point..at all...to anything supernatural. That is purely wishful thinking on your part. (And some Youtube video conspiracy theorists) You are just taking a spotty understanding and shaping it into your preferred world view. "Quantum Physics". Jesus, I thought we were going to stop saying "Quantum physics" as a catch word to add credibility to every string of nonsense that our imaginations concoct.
As I've said before. No discovery has ever pointed to the supernatural. Never. All new discoveries, all new facts...point in a different direction. There has never been an exception. To me, that fact fairly screams for your attention.
But Nope".
I have said this before, there is nothing supernatural or paranormal. If it is so then it is natural. If some of these theories hold up and it gives just the slightest bit more credibility to that, I am all for it, since I want what I have experienced to be explained and incorporated/accepted into the sum of our knowledge.
Seriously? You actually believe that? Honestly, I can't think of a comeback.
I mean neither of us have pumped our sig, for pushing a book on the paranormal, or lied to other members or stolen from anyone, etc, etc, etc.
We have impeccable records here, and when we mention that something paranormal, has happened, then it is automatically labelled as nonsense, or a delusion or anything or everything else, anything but what we have seen or experienced.
And multiple sightings, (as Lanfear showed in his well crafted story) cannot be put down to delusion.
I have been in at least two situations where l have seen ghosts, with one or more people, seeing and explaining the same thing at the same time.
This is not a delusion, or drugs or lighting or CGI, or anything else, just an experience that science cannot explain, or doesn't want to explain.
Bottom line is there is something to this.
Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
I appreciate the vote of confidence. But my bar is really lower than that.
One decent argument would make me change my mind, or at least look into it further. But in every book I've read (on paranormal subjects), every video I've watched, every "documentary", and every post on any forum I've visited and read...
The evidence is a jumble of irrational conclusions made by mistakes in reasoning...based on suppositions..most of which are already proven wrong.
and I've looked..always with the idea of "finding out"...learning more.. Never with the idea of proving a belief to be wrong. That's sloppy thinking. Bad reasoning.
Really...just....one...decent...argument...One point made that is a solid piece of reasoning.
And unfortunately, all solid pieces of reasoning I've ever seen, point away from the supernatural. I've never seen an exception. There has never been a discovery that something supernatural is true...or real. I would have thought that this fact alone would bring doubt.
But no.
I agree most UFO, Ghost video's and doc,s are crap all up, and online YT ones more so, (the terrible music being one).
But sometimes a lot of manure is poured on a sensitive subject, in order to bury the gold nugget underneath.
Originally Posted by lanfear63
".No. Not stories of collective observations. And if the observations are of impossible occurrences, I would figure out what really happened. I would not accept the most preposterous conclusion as the most likely one."
To say that it is simply impossible occurrences "all the time" shows a resistance to take on new information and seek to rationalize it whatever it takes. Even if it does mean to incorporate some forward thinking ideas and theories into your thinking.
.
And this gets back to thousands of people seeing UFO's at any given time...
And this also gets back to coverups, since the explanations are a joke at best.
Can we honestly say, thousands, pffft, they ALL must have been drunk or dilusional or, or, or, no.
Flares or balloons flying in a perfect "V" shape for long periods is ludicrous at best, but people will buy any explanation since they just don't want to know.
And why they don't want to know, is the problem to open discussions and talking to the wall.
I mean neither of us have pumped our sig, for pushing a book on the paranormal, or lied to other members or stolen from anyone, etc, etc, etc.
We have impeccable records here,
Yes. I have to agree that neither you or Mark have ripped anyone off, done anything illegal, or lied to anyone here......just like everyone else here except one. (someone not on this thread)
But credible? As in we should take what you say seriously?
Yes. I have to agree that neither you or Mark have ripped anyone off, done anything illegal, or lied to anyone here......just like everyone else here except one. (someone not on this thread)
But credible? As in we should take what you say seriously?
Yes, your track record speaks for itself.
I have no reason to lie, and apparently from recent remarks you and others have made, a deep-rooted need to continue to believe in what you believe regardless of what l or Mark or any other-one else can say or do is of vital importance.
And your track record is also impeccable, especially now.
I have no reason to lie, and apparently from recent remarks you and others have made, a deep-rooted need to continue to believe in what you believe regardless of what l or Mark or any other-one else can say or do is of vital importance.
Everything in the above quote could be pointed back at you.
You have a deep rooted need to continue to believe in what you believe regardless of how many times your theories are debunked.
claude .. i don't want to sound elitists or what ever this may sound like or read like ..
but i will not try to justify my beliefs to someone determined ..to not believe anything that can't be verified by science .. and what can be measured by science.. there is nothing i can put in this thread that would give you the slightest bit of understanding ..
I am not determined. It doesn't have to be verified by science. It doesn't have to be measured by science.
Just a solid argument. A single paragraph that isn't riddled with incorrect premises, logical fallacies.
My bar is really pretty low.
On the other hand, you shouldn't feel a need to convince me, just as I shouldn't feel a need to convince you.
and, I meant it...I gave it my best shot. In my last post I mentioned three "Aha" moments I had in my life.......that had I seen today for the first time...would have at least partially convinced me. Anyway, you seem like a good guy.
Originally Posted by tagiscom
If l or Lanfear who have been here for some time, with pretty pristine track records, mentions something paranormal, then it should inject some doubt.
Seriously? You actually believe that? Honestly, I can't think of a comeback.
yeah i know.. sorry for that .. i'm not really sure how to delve in to explaining the energy i am talking about..
as for trickle down economics ..i think we just hit that point we hve run out of subject to add to this thread haha ..
people can wit for the trickle thats how social programs work .. put a hole bunch of money in the top .. the people get a little at the bottom..
i will just find stuff rich or wealthy people want to buy and sell them that ..
i mean if you believe that money trickles down and your at the bottom of that trickles you will wait for the drops and the scraps .. rather than filling up your water bottle from the growing pool of wealth
i will just find stuff rich or wealthy people want to buy and sell them that .
Very bad news for you on that count, my friend. The rich only buy from their friends and relatives - or someone that their friends or relatives referred them to. They have no interset in you getting even a tiny sliver of that pie. Not even the crumbs.
Remember when we were talking about reality? You need a new business model. What you have proposed is an epic fail. :-)
"Astrology is the study of the movements and relative positions of celestial objects as a means of divining information about human affairs and terrestrial events." Wikipedia.
The positions of the stars? That is science. It is part of Astronomy. Astronomy is a science.
The process of "divining information about human affairs and terrestrial events" is based on nothing like science.
if you use a computer, because you have an Astrology program...I suppose it involves math. But math is only a tool of science.
And the astrological factors you mentioned in an earlier post?The ones you need for your astrological program? Most of that information has nothing to do with astrology. Most of it is general questions, and the answers you feed into an algorithm.
Astrology is about the position of the stars and planets at the moment of birth. It doesn't include health questions, occupation, or any other personal information.
And science is the system of finding out what is real. Separating the reality from the mythology. and it has already done that. It separated Astronomy from astrology.
Strange that no astronomers propose that the position of stars and planets on the date of your birth are meaningful. You would think that if anyone would know about that...it would be the astronomers.
But no. They haven't a clue. They don't know the truth. They are probably part of the conspiracy. Similar to the observation that astronomers are hiding the fact that Mars has cities, people, and atmosphere, and dogs that go for walks.
That last paragraph is really for Shane. But to me, all nonsense is of equal value.
But no. They haven't a clue. They don't know the truth. They are probably part of the conspiracy. Similar to the observation that astronomers are hiding the fact that Mars has cities, people, and atmosphere, and dogs that go for walks.
That last paragraph is really for Shane. But to me, all nonsense is of equal value.
You can trust me, my record here is spotless.
WHAT!!!!!! PFFFFT, sir, l never once said that dogs walk themselves.
You need to retract that immediately or it will be vacuum cleaners at 40 paces.
But l agree with the spotless remark, and l have the hospital grade, disinfectant and Wooster Bathhouse and saunas, health report from the Coroners office to prove that.
"Astrology is the study of the movements and relative positions of celestial objects as a means of divining information about human affairs and terrestrial events." Wikipedia.
The positions of the stars? That is science. It is part of Astronomy. Astronomy is a science.
The process of "divining information about human affairs and terrestrial events" is based on nothing like science.
if you use a computer, because you have an Astrology program...I suppose it involves math. But math is only a tool of science.
And the astrological factors you mentioned in an earlier post?The ones you need for your astrological program? Most of that information has nothing to do with astrology. Most of it is general questions, and the answers you feed into an algorithm.
Astrology is about the position of the stars and planets at the moment of birth. It doesn't include health questions, occupation, or any other personal information.
And science is the system of finding out what is real. Separating the reality from the mythology. and it has already done that. It separated Astronomy from astrology.
Strange that no astronomers propose that the position of stars and planets on the date of your birth are meaningful. You would think that if anyone would know about that...it would be the astronomers.
But no. They haven't a clue. They don't know the truth. They are probably part of the conspiracy. Similar to the observation that astronomers are hiding the fact that Mars has cities, people, and atmosphere, and dogs that go for walks.
That last paragraph is really for Shane. But to me, all nonsense is of equal value.
You can trust me, my record here is spotless.
Well yes, really...
It is just pure math plotting a horoscope wheel. The stars patterns (making a backdrop) themselves are just there because all the planets, sun and moon traverse them or move through them backwards and forwards throughout the year. Taking data from planetary movements is used and plotted on this backdrop of 12 equally divided segments. Great for a computer to figure out
In it's early days before this sort of tech was available the star patterns themselves provided the much rougher measurements to plot the planetary positions.
There are also 12 houses around the wheel, these can be equally divided or not. There is the Equal House system (equally divided) or Placidius (really unequally divided) and a load of others. My really old now, software gave you a choice of 7.systems.Equal house is now the most popular.
"When the moon is in the 7th house and jupiter aligns with Mars", as the song goes is pretty normal speak in Astrology.
I think that a lot of Astronomy originated from Astrology in terms of the techniques used by Astrologers to make the calculations
So then you have the computer reading based on these positions, alignments, oppositions. Meanings created and pretty much set in stone by mankind.
My program gave a printout. The sun in the sign, (the general one) and then the planets sun and moon positions and angles from each other, what houses they were in. etc. Each had a paragraph. A lot of text overall. .So, reading fast as it scrolled up while printing, what I did find was that each reading seemed to have a bias. This was by way of repetition of seeing the same thing over and over again. Disposition of being crazy on books, or in one case rectal problems early in life.
And yes, I made my stabs at telling people what there health or professions would be and had extraordinary success at it. I have no explanation but I still don't really see any merit or scientific basis in Astrology.
Did you know that when future or now predictions that are made with Astrology .. one year after birth is only a one day advancement of the chart. So doing a reading for a 24 year old is only advancing the planetary positions 24 days.
Did you know that when future or now predictions that are made with Astrology .. one year after birth is only a one day advancement of the chart. So doing a reading for a 24 year old is only advancing the planetary positions 24 days.
Yeah, I know, figure that one out.
Do you mean that the astrological charts repeat themselves every year? (so the year of birth doesn't matter)?
How would 24 years advance the chart 24 days? Is that a mistake?
Do you mean that the astrological charts repeat themselves every year? (so the year of birth doesn't matter)?
How would 24 years advance the chart 24 days? Is that a mistake?
It's how its done for now or future prediction. The chart would not be the same because planets will move or appear to move in a retrograde manner against the backdrop of the stars.
I was surprised by this, but all I really did was to type in the birth-date, time, longitude and lattitude and the current one and it spat out a reading. I made money off this.
In those early days of astrology software I actually had to look up the place coordinates in an Atlas index. (this was cutting edge software in the 80"s) Now it's built in.
It's how its done for now or future prediction. The chart would not be the same because planets will move or appear to move in a retrograde manner against the backdrop of the stars.
I was surprised by this, but all I really did was to type in the birth-date, time, longitude and lattitude and the current one and it spat out a reading. I made money off this.
In those early days of astrology software I actually had to look up the place coordinates in an Atlas index. (this was cutting edge software in the 80"s) Now it's built in.
Maybe a little similar..
I used to sell life insurance. And a company came out with a briefcase with a computer and printer built in (way before PCs).
I asked about 30 questions, and the computer would print out exactly how much life insurance they needed, what plan, the premium paid....everything.
It was a disaster.
Sure, the machine gave out great information. But it destroyed the entire relationship between an agent and his client. It was way to impersonal. And...when they said "I'll think about it"...they thought they were putting off a machine..not me. It was no longer personal to them. I went back to a yellow legal pad and a calculator.
The computer cost me $800 (back when a decent motor cycle cost $800). I was such a rube.
But I completely get why the Astrological chart was printed from a computer. It lent credence and "science" to the whole thing. Of course, the customer had already "bought in"...or they wouldn't ever ask for the chart.
Maybe a little similar..
I used to sell life insurance. And a company came out with a briefcase with a computer and printer built in (way before PCs).
I asked about 30 questions, and the computer would print out exactly how much life insurance they needed, what plan, the premium paid....everything.
It was a disaster.
Sure, the machine gave out great information. But it destroyed the entire relationship between an agent and his client. It was way to impersonal. And...when they said "I'll think about it"...they thought they were putting off a machine..not me. It was no longer personal to them. I went back to a yellow legal pad and a calculator.
The computer cost me $800 (back when a decent motor cycle cost $800). I was such a rube.
But I completely get why the Astrological chart was printed from a computer. It lent credence and "science" to the whole thing. Of course, the customer had already "bought in"...or they wouldn't ever ask for the chart.
That's a shame that it did not work out. so are you saying that sitting down with a calculator doing it manually and using your experience and judgement was better because you got to chat with the customer or the computer produced an inaccurate appraisal crunching the demographics?
I used to fill out Lombard Tricity credit agreements manually, my god, that was a chore.. I could do it though and then had to phone them in and wait for an answer.. when it became computerized, that was a godsend.
My little store was not that far from the seaside so had quite a few tourists in the summer, so it was a bit of fun mostly, A fortune telling on the Pier type thing. the locals only occasionally wanted readings. I did get a few Astrologers requesting charts because they usually worked it out via tables.
I always kept the price relatively low, it was little work for the return..
That's a shame that it did not work out. so are you saying that sitting down with a calculator doing it manually and using your experience and judgement was better because you got to chat with the customer or the computer produced an inaccurate appraisal crunching the demographics?
Believe it or not, it was that they really wanted personal attention. And a computer didn't give them that.
Can you imagine going to a doctor...and he just puts your symptoms into a computer...and the computer prints out the prescription and treatment?
These people want attention. They want you to listen to them, their story, their plans, their philosophy.....and a computer program takes that all away.
The truth is, the computer printed out the very best information...much better than I could do on my own....but it wasn't personal, so they didn't buy it.
It also helped that they saw me really work on their behalf. It made them feel obligated to buy from me. The computer took away that feeling of obligation.
But at the time, in my late 20s....I had no idea why or why not anything worked. I just knew that the customers weren't buying from a computer.
Believe it or not, it was that they really wanted personal attention. And a computer didn't give them that.
Can you imagine going to a doctor...and he just puts your symptoms into a computer...and the computer prints out the prescription and treatment?
These people want attention. They want you to listen to them, their story, their plans, their philosophy.....and a computer program takes that all away.
The truth is, the computer printed out the very best information...much better than I could do on my own....but it wasn't personal, so they didn't buy it.
It also helped that they saw me really work on their behalf. It made them feel obligated to buy from me. The computer took away that feeling of obligation.
But at the time, in my late 20s....I had no idea why or why not anything worked. I just knew that the customers weren't buying from a computer.
I wonder if this isn't generational. I wouldn't be surprised if millennials and younger would feel differently. Even older people now have had a lot more direct interaction with computers than they did then.
I wonder if this isn't generational. I wouldn't be surprised if millennials and younger would feel differently. Even older people now have had a lot more direct interaction with computers than they did then.
Of course. This was 35-40 years ago.
But I also remember when having a credit card was a big deal...any credit card. I also remember getting (just 20 years ago) huge resistance to giving a credit card number over the phone. Now? I get them every day...from complete strangers.
The first 20 years (about) that I sold vacuum cleaners...nobody used a credit card. It was almost all financed..with an occasional cash sale.
In my store today? All credit cards...with a very occasional check.
As far as the computer, buying insurance? Most people go online now to find life insurance policies. That's the standard way to buy. A completely different world than when I was in my 20s.
In fact, I haven't got a sales prospecting call from a life insurance agent in...maybe 15 years. I've only had two walk in my store..and I bought from one of them.
B
It also helped that they saw me really work on their behalf. It made them feel obligated to buy from me. The computer took away that feeling of obligation.
But at the time, in my late 20s....I had no idea why or why not anything worked. I just knew that the customers weren't buying from a computer.
the interesting hing i find is interesting ..is many people may not like doing hard work.. but given the option they like to watch others do hard work on their behalf ..or just watch them do hard work..
I have had jobs most of my life ..if the work was done.. and there where a few hours left of the shift..if you wanted to you could leave and lose the pay.. but if you are on the clock bosses want to se you working even if there is not much to do ..
people also understand you earn commision and where probably in some ways repulsed by you letting the computer do all the work..and like you said life insurance is very personal.. so even reason for more offence ..
now as for your doctor comment it is almost at that point as the doctor has very little persona time per patient so they are acting as the computer would in the few minutes a doctor has ..when the patient spends hours waiting for those few minutes ..but maybe it is better now than when i was taking care of my parents and taking one of them to a doctor almost every day
the more professionals are tracked and managed and the less time they are able to interact with a customer .. the more people given the choice would save a bunch of time and do as much of the diagnostic work with tech at home .. rather than spending hours going to the doctor ..but it will probably shift to nurses having the mobile equipment and providing the personal touch ..
after taking a few days away from this ..it occured to me to ..that why don't ghost appear everywhere.. why are there certain condition a building or area has to be in to have ghost.. why does a hospital active for 60 years ..with all the people who suffer and die or go through intense emotional pain .,.not have ghosts .. but shut it down and let things get decayed and dusty ..and occasionally people in there will see ghosts ..
are there conditions that trigger people to see ghosts.. i certain energy or aura ..that is in the environment ..
now the joke was missed when i said i would only put any faith in horoscope or prediction made from a native shamen.. or a gypsy witch ..in certain environment..over a printout from a computer program ..
like i would not expect or even consider seeing ghost in a new pristine building .. but a much older building that looks aged and haunted ..
and as i said it was only my family who lived in our house so the suggestion by other we had ghoasts .. that non who lived there ever saw.. blah
after taking a few days away from this ..it occured to me to ..that why don't ghost appear everywhere.. why are there certain condition a building or area has to be in to have ghost.. why does a hospital active for 60 years ..with all the people who suffer and die or go through intense emotional pain .,.not have ghosts .. but shut it down and let things get decayed and dusty ..and occasionally people in there will see ghosts ..
are there conditions that trigger people to see ghosts.. i certain energy or aura ..that is in the environment ..
now the joke was missed when i said i would only put any faith in horoscope or prediction made from a native shamen.. or a gypsy witch ..in certain environment..over a printout from a computer program ..
like i would not expect or even consider seeing ghost in a new pristine building .. but a much older building that looks aged and haunted ..
and as i said it was only my family who lived in our house so the suggestion by other we had ghoasts .. that non who lived there ever saw.. blah
Ghosts are everywhere, but there are ghosts that are based on ego, and others that are dearly departed saying hello.
I tried to see them in a shopping centre once, and yeah, everywhere, especially at the food court, or areas with more people.
Some are trying to help their kinfolk, and the ego based ones are not.
Thank you for confirming your deep rooted need to continue to believe in what you believe.
Deep rooted need based on almost 40 years of experiences,....
Originally Posted by lanfear63
The theory goes that you have several spirit like bodies or shells, the lightest and purest of which is the real you, the mind, the essence. The ego body is a dis guarded shell that goes about it's business autonomously re-enacting earthly stuff. Over time it dissipates. It has been attributed to .haunting's that are repetitious.
Some psychic speak for you.
True, and something like a murder, (something that is virtually 100% ego based) saturates the area, (a room in a house) so that the mindless part of the entity can reenact, or play with its transgressions.
Something that is pretty obvious.
Originally Posted by Kay King
Seriously? That's your argument? Wow...
As is a lot of other 'stuff' in this thread....
Yes Kay it is called having a track record.
Originally Posted by Odahh
it's more a course of listening to them to figure out how crazy they are.. nearly everyone is a little crazy .. but and not all extremely crazy people are babbling and dysfunctional ..
True, and something like a murder, (something that is virtually 100% ego based) saturates the area, (a room in a house) so that the mindless part of the entity can reenact, or play with its transgressions.
Something that is pretty obvious.
Obviously. How can anyone argue with that?
Originally Posted by tagiscom
Yes Kay it is called having track record.
Yes Kay..what were you thinking? Shane's track record is spotless. I mean it. Seriously....
It's like pornography. I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it.
Pornography and astrology are intimately connected. Eroticism and pornography are particularly strong within the realm of Scorpio. Traditionally the fifth house and the sign of Leo but in the different way than a Scorpio. Then again we have sensual feelings from Taurus, and light friendly sex drive of Aquarius. But we also have some Virgo (especially in s&m).
Pornography and astrology are intimately connected. Eroticism and pornography are particularly strong within the realm of Scorpio. Traditionally the fifth house and the sign of Leo but in the different way than a Scorpio. Then again we have sensual feelings from Taurus, and light friendly sex drive of Aquarius. But we also have some Virgo (especially in s&m).
Gobsmacked! On one hand, if someone pulled that paragraph on me on a date, I'd write him off as a weirdo....on the other hand, I'd be insulted Libra wasn't mentioned.
Gobsmacked! On one hand, if someone pulled that paragraph on me on a date, I'd write him off as a weirdo....on the other hand, I'd be insulted Libra wasn't mentioned.
I once dated a Libra. She read to me of our astrological compatibility with me as Taurus: "For the Taurus man and Libra woman, compatibility has a lot to do with the emotional security they both want. ... The inner spark of romance, brought to both by their shared Venus rulership, can create beautiful Taurus man Libra woman compatibility, but in the long term the relationship can turn into a push me-pull me one."
The "push me-pull me" attribute was intriguing, but I found Libra can be incredibly fussy and requires a whole lot of work to get into a favorable position. Theirs stars and planets seldom line up right. On the other hand, Scorpio and Leo - OMG! Both are easy riders on a Taurus. I would never consider Gemini (twins); too much to handle.
You do NOT get to start an argument - applaud your own activities - stomp your foot and then close a thread when someone disagrees with you or teases you about your comments.
It is not fitting for a moderator do that and I will say that here. Don't let your temper get the best of you - you can do better than that. You are better than that!
Back up - take a breath and get over it. Accept that how we see 'ourselves' is not necessarily how others view us. That is true for you and me and everyone else posting here.
I think if anyone here posted in a way that made them seem 'more important' or 'more perfect' than others....the comments and pushback would be the same.
You do NOT get to start an argument - applaud your own activities - stomp your foot and then close a thread when someone disagrees with you or teases you about your comments.
It is not fitting for a moderator do that and I will say that here. Don't let your temper get the best of you - you can do better than that. You are better than that!
Back up - take a breath and get over it. Accept that how we see 'ourselves' is not necessarily how others view us. That is true for you and me and everyone else posting here.
I think if anyone here posted in a way that made them seem 'more important' or 'more perfect' than others....the comments and pushback would be the same.
Kay, really.....It's called having a track record. And not just a track record..but an impeccable track record.
Well, at least he didn't say he was a stable genius.
I think if anyone here posted in a way that made them seem 'more important' or 'more perfect' than others....the comments and pushback would be the same.
Precisely why I would never even consider acting in such a fashion. My humility simply won't permit it.
I always get to be someone else ..i am definitely not who i was 6 months ago ..well i'm at least 1o pounds lighter than the person i was 6 months ago..haha
I always get to be someone else ..i am definitely not who i was 6 months ago ..well i'm at least 1o pounds lighter than the person i was 6 months ago..haha
I lost 5 pounds last week. Good, I guess, but less of me to love. That's not a good thing.
I was surprised by this, but all I really did was to type in the birth-date, time, longitude and lattitude and the current one and it spat out a reading. I made money off this.
Ok - now we're talking.
Remember the 'bio-rhythm' machines? Introduced by the same companies that built pin ball machines...many years ago at a Chicago show I saw people lined up to the end of the display hall just to have a machine tell them how they feel. Standing in line, I felt bored...so...I moved on to something else.
Remember the 'bio-rhythm' machines? Introduced by the same companies that built pin ball machines...many years ago at a Chicago show I saw people lined up to the end of the display hall just to have a machine tell them how they feel. Standing in line, I felt bored...so...I moved on to something else.
That reminds me of the copper bracelets.
Wait...wait...copper bracelets....magnetic underwear. I remember an MLM that sold magnets sewn into everything.
Wait wait! Shark cartilage!
And last but not least Ozone generators. I used to sell them, and had to often talk people out of their belief that these machines would cure cancer, asthma, just about anything.
Wait...wait...copper bracelets....magnetic underwear. I remember an MLM that sold magnets sewn into everything.
Wait wait! Shark cartilage!
And last but not least Ozone generators. I used to sell them, and had to often talk people out of their belief that these machines would cure cancer, asthma, just about anything.
so the ozone thing was that before people figured out what free radicals where ..sounds like the extra oxegen molecule would split off and become a free radical and cause cancer and all those problems people would hope it fixed ..
but then again i think i have read somewhere having way too many anti oxidant is not that good either.. as once they bind up free radicals.. the excess may do damage themselves..
but don't call tha a belief..i think it is filed under to much of a good thing can be bad
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
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"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
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"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.
If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
Marriage, For The Best Arguments
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.
"Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren