This Tiny Fish Can Recognize Itself in a Mirror. Is It Self-Aware?

14 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
The cleaner wrasse joins humans, chimpanzees, dolphins, and a select few other animals that can pass a long-standing intelligence test.

IT'S ALMOST AUTOMATIC--IF you notice a smudge when you look in the mirror, you wipe it off. Seems simple, but only a few particularly clever species such as orangutans and dolphins share this ability with humans. Even people don't recognize themselves in the mirror until early childhood.

But now, incredibly, new research suggests that the cleaner wrasse--a tiny, tropical reef fish--can recognize itself too, the first fish to do so.

Read the full story, here: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/a...lligence-news/
Avatar of Unregistered
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Crows can fashion simple tools - and use them to dig a treat out of a bottle or a hole....and the majority of zoologists who work wtih animals as a career believe our failure to communicate with various species is proof of our limitations...not theirs.
    Signature

    Saving one dog will not change the world - but forever changes the world of one dog.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11424318].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
    Claude can recognize himself in a mirror, it's believing what he see's that's the problem.
    Signature

    Where ever you go, there you are.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11424321].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

      Claude can recognize himself in a mirror, it's believing what he see's that's the problem.
      I'm, still not sure if recognizing yourself in a mirror means you are self aware. And I'm not sure what being "self aware" actually means. There have to be grades, different interpretations. A fish brain is way...way different from a primate brain. So is a crow's (although much larger than a small fish.)

      It's all very muddy to me.

      For humans...how much brain (and in what areas) can you lose and still be self aware?

      How much memory can you lose and still be self aware? At what point in Alzheimer's do you lose self awareness?
      The last month my mom was alive, she could still talk...but it was just repeating short phrases I had just said to her. I'm fairly certain that...even though she responded...she wasn't really there.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11424351].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

      Claude can recognize himself in a mirror, it's believing what he see's that's the problem.
      Claude has many facets, and has the broken mirror to prove it.

      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11424373].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

      Claude can recognize himself in a Magic mirror, it's believing what he see's that's the problem.
      And they are made of plastic so no more shattering.

      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11424543].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    The cleaner wrasse joins humans, chimpanzees, dolphins, and a select few other animals that can pass a long-standing intelligence test.
    Lol. We humans devise an intelligence test by which we hold other animals accountable. That doesn't sound too intelligent.

    The mirror self-awareness test relies on senses humans have. We cannot know how non human animals experience their environment. Dogs, for example, experience much of their world by means of smell, which is many times more sensitive than ours. Perhaps they recognize themselves and other animals primarily by that sense. If so, that wouldn't be a test any human is likely to pass.

    If it's hard enough to imagine how other mammals see the world, how could we expect to understand how creatures that live underwater must experience it?
    Signature
    Write a wise saying and your name will live forever. (Author unknown)

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11424353].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      If so, that wouldn't be a test any human is likely to pass.
      Most of us could recognise Claude by smell.
      Signature
      Hello Steven, this is Clem Fandango. Can you hear me?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11424418].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        Most of us could recognise Claude by smell.
        Obviously. That's why he's used as the control.
        Signature
        Write a wise saying and your name will live forever. (Author unknown)

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11424437].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          Obviously. That's why he's used as the control.
          That's a poor choice right there. Claude can't even control his bowels.
          Signature

          Yes, I can hear you, Clem Fandango.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11424475].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            That's a poor choice right there. Claude can't even control his bowels.
            That Claude exists is the direct result of Lucifer being unable to control his bowels.
            Signature

            "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11424481].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          Obviously. That's why he's used as the control.
          Hey................HEY!

          I'm standing right here...in front of my mirror. Who is that handsome man? Why is he naked? Why is he getting aroused by seeing that I'm getting aroused?
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11424503].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I'm standing right here...in front of my mirror. Who is that handsome man? Why is he naked? Why is he getting aroused by seeing that I'm getting aroused?
            Vacuum Cleaner Wrasse Syndrome.
            Signature
            Write a wise saying and your name will live forever. (Author unknown)

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11424505].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
    There are many things we know, now, that people thought we would never discover the answers to. At some level, isn't the quest to understand things that are currently beyond the scope of our accumulated knowledge, one of the main tenets of scientific research?

    Whether we find the answers or not may not be of paramount importance in any particular research project because in many cases, the research leads to other fascinating bits of discovery that are a unexpected, yet oftentimes extremely consequential byproducts.

    I have been constantly amazed at some of the most obscure facts that science has unearthed, concerning creatures, large and small - on land and in the oceans of the world. Since I don't have the intellectual capacity to understand the processes used to establish these facts, I'm not in a position to find any observed and stated discovery as absurd or seemingly arrogant at a species level.

    This is not presented as an argument for or against anyone's position or belief system. It's offered as nothing more than a personal observation.

    Cheers.
    Signature

    "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11424361].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Shopifyprofit
    I don't know if the fish knows that it's looking at itself in the mirror.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11424382].message }}
Avatar of Unregistered

Trending Topics