If your 60 year old self came to you from the future...

74 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
What would the they tell you? The reason I'm wondering is because I got into IM when I was about 25. Some ideas worked while others did not. I gave up on quite a hand full of potential ideas/websites that would have made me pretty wealthy by now (14 years later).

I wished that could go back in time and tell my 25 year old self to just keep going with the things he was working on and not to give up because they WILL pay off. But obviously, I can not do that.

So instead, I had a vision of my 60 year old self coming to me now days and telling me the same stuff that I wanted to tell my 25 year old self. He said that things were going to be so much better in the future. Everything will be easier as our lives adapt to the emerging digital age.

But he also said that this is the golden age right now for internet business. It is equivalent to a modern day gold Rush. Whatever projects or ideas I have in the works today are going to pay off big time in the future. He said to not give up on what I'm doing because if I do, he will remain stuck in his dead-end job, single, living in a one room shack with a beat up old car and a pet Chihuahua. And that's not the life he wanted.

So what would your future version of yourself tell you?
Avatar of Unregistered
  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by erealmz View Post

    What would the they tell you? The reason I'm wondering is because I got into IM when I was about 25. Some ideas worked while others did not. I gave up on quite a hand full of potential ideas/websites that would have made me pretty wealthy by now (14 years later).

    I wished that could go back in time and tell my 25 year old self to just keep going with the things he was working on and not to give up because they WILL pay off. But obviously, I can not do that.

    So instead, I had a vision of my 60 year old self coming to me now days and telling me the same stuff that I wanted to tell my 25 year old self. He said that things were going to be so much better in the future. Everything will be easier as our lives adapt to the emerging digital age.

    But he also said that this is the golden age right now for internet business. It is equivalent to a modern day gold Rush. Whatever projects or ideas I have in the works today are going to pay off big time in the future. He said to not give up on what I'm doing because if I do, he will remain stuck in his dead-end job, single, living in a one room shack with a beat up old car and a pet Chihuahua. And that's not the life he wanted.

    So what would your future version of yourself tell you?
    I'm assuming that you are talking to people far younger than 60.

    So, pretend you are 30.

    We are asked t imagine how technology and marketing will change in the next 30 years.

    And then we are asked to imagine ourselves far wiser than we are now. And we are asked to imagine what that far wiser person would say to us....about what to do in this imagined future...30 years from now.

    Easy peasy.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449493].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      And then we are asked to imagine ourselves far wiser than we are now.
      No matter how hard I try, I simply cannot imagine you NOT being any wiser 30 years from now. I mean, can you really move backwards from blathering idiot, as you move forward in time?
      Signature

      "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449576].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author gegli
      take it easy guys !!! This is just the power of technology
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11450447].message }}
      • lol, technology's power is only getting better with Artifical Intelligence coming out.

        LOL to these convos!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11455825].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    A variation of "if only I had known then what I know now"....

    Chances are you could have had advice from older marketers - and you wouldn't have listened.

    In life and in business, often those 'mistakes' we regret in the past are what made us what we are today. Most of us don't admit we're doing anything wrong until after we've made the mistake - and then it's too late anyway....
    Signature

    Saving one dog will not change the world - but forever changes the world of one dog.
    Kindness is not an Act - It's a Lifestyle
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449498].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author erealmz
      It's true. But if our proven future selves came to us with advise, I think we would listen to every word and do everything they told us. Because they know the outcome of our actions today.

      As an added rule though, they can't give us winning lottery numbers or anything like that.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449501].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    Let's think this through shall we.

    You from the future comes back to tell you what to do to avoid mistakes. Therefore those mistakes will never happen and your future self will have no reason to come back and tell you what to do. Therefore you'll make all those mistakes, and your future self will then come back to you, thereby causing you to negate his reason for coming back.

    In order for your future yourself to come back and give advice, you have to completely ignore any and all advice he/she is going to give you otherwise your future self will never come back in time to give you that advice.

    Can you now see what an utterly ridiculous and paradoxical scenario this is?
    Signature
    Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449520].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

      Let's think this through shall we.

      You from the future comes back to tell you what to do to avoid mistakes. Therefore those mistakes will never happen and your future self will have no reason to come back and tell you what to do. Therefore you'll make all those mistakes, and your future self will then come back to you, thereby causing you to negate his reason for coming back.

      In order for your future yourself to come back and give advice, you have to completely ignore any and all advice he/she is going to give you otherwise your future self will never come back in time to give you that advice.

      Can you now see what an utterly ridiculous and paradoxical scenario this is?
      I see three flaws in your argument.

      1) You are an idiot. (It's a joke folks. It's funny because it's obviously not true.)
      2) There are no paradoxes.

      OK, I meant 2, not 3.

      But, my friend, let's pretend this really happened.....

      Nothing would change. You were always going to go into the past and talk to yourself. Whatever you did after that talk, caused everything from then on to happen, exactly the way it did before you turned 60.

      Why don't you remember (as a younger man) a visit from your older self? Maybe you didn't tell your younger self that it was you. Maybe you didn't believe the older self and forgot...or thought it was a dream, of had brain damage afterwards.

      For example, if I could somehow travel back in time and tell my younger self not to marry my first wife.....somehow...that already happened. And no matter what information is transferred..I was still going to marry my first wife, because that's what happened.

      The reason you cannot change the past by time traveling to the past, is because that trip is part of the past, and always was. You cannot erase that trip (and everything that happened) from history. Your future (from the perspective of your past self) will still be the same...always.

      If you travel to the past to shoot Hitler as a child.....that trip was already part of history. So...you either died before you could shoot him, changed your mind, shot the wrong child, or he survived the shooting...that was already part of history.

      I am a genius...a very stable genius. I know the best words. I know more about ISIS than the generals, believe me. Matt Whitaker is a great guy, I know Matt Whitaker. I never met Matt Whitaker, I don't know him.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449575].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I am a genius...a very stable genius. I know the best words. I know more about ISIS than the generals, believe me. Matt Whitaker is a great guy, I know Matt Whitaker. I never met Matt Whitaker, I don't know him.
        OK. But why are you so afraid of the rain???
        Signature

        "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449577].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
          Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

          OK. But why are you so afraid of the rain???
          Can you imagine what would happen to all that orange makeup if exposed to rain? That's before we even get to what'd happen to the hair.
          Signature
          Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449614].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

            Can you imagine what would happen to all that orange makeup if exposed to rain?
            That's precisely what I imagine whenever I need a good belly-laugh.

            That's before we even get to what'd happen to the hair.
            Horse hair is rather impervious to bad weather.
            Signature

            "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449626].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        If you travel to the past to shoot Hitler as a child.....that trip was already part of history. So...you either died before you could shoot him, changed your mind, shot the wrong child, or he survived the shooting...that was already art of history.
        I wish I could travel to the past and convince your father to wear a condom.
        Signature
        Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449617].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

          I wish I could travel to the past and convince your father to wear a condom.
          He'd still be born. Now, if you convinced the milkman to wear a condom....
          Signature

          Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11450139].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            He'd still be born. Now, if you convinced the milkman to wear a condom....
            Claude was Stillborn, but that did not stop him.
            Signature

            Where ever you go, there you are.

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11450418].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author erealmz
      You mean someone like me? Says the person who can't quote Bob Dylan right...

      This isn'ta science question so don't take it there with rude replies.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449587].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
        Originally Posted by erealmz View Post

        You mean someone like me?
        Well, I wasn't actually referring to you, but if you identified yourself in my comment, I guess I didn't really need to. lol

        Says the person who can't quote Bob Dylan right...
        Look it up!

        This isn'ta science question so don't take it there with rude replies.
        It wasn't an anything question. Rude is in the eye of the beholder. I was simply exercising truthiness.Sorry if that upset you.

        Somehow, I'm thinking your absence from the forum went totally unnoticed. lol
        Signature

        "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449602].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author erealmz
          That's more like it. Thank you.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449640].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
        Originally Posted by erealmz View Post

        You mean someone like me? Says the person who can't quote Bob Dylan right...
        I think you meant, 'correctly.' lol
        Signature

        "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449609].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

      Let's think this through shall we.

      You from the future comes back to tell you what to do to avoid mistakes. Therefore those mistakes will never happen and your future self will have no reason to come back and tell you what to do. Therefore you'll make all those mistakes, and your future self will then come back to you, thereby causing you to negate his reason for coming back.

      In order for your future yourself to come back and give advice, you have to completely ignore any and all advice he/she is going to give you otherwise your future self will never come back in time to give you that advice.

      Can you now see what an utterly ridiculous and paradoxical scenario this is?
      Not necessarily, I on 11/11/18 go back to 1980 at 1 pm and tell my earlier self to invest everything in Microsoft and Apple. I return to 11/11/18 at 2 pm and I am considerably richer person. I say 2pm so I have no chance of running into my one hour earlier self, he will be one hour in the past and his existence came to an end one hour in the past.

      The consequences of this action will be mine. How my life has turned out, my relationships etc will be mine to discover. I would not instantly know what they were as I temporarily jumped outside the timeline.I would only know that I went back and conversed with my earlier self.

      I just stepped outside time, went back and had the conversation to make my future more rosy.

      I suppose you could say it's a point of view thing.
      Signature

      Where ever you go, there you are.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449641].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    Hi Er,

    "Live in the moment."

    The past is a ghost. The future is like leading a horse with a carrot, afixed about 3 inches in front of its head. The future never arrives.

    Only the present is real. Only the moment exists. So be there, and you will cease wasting time in past and future.

    The 60 year old you is the 20 year old you. Same moment. Different growth. That's all.
    Signature
    Ryan Biddulph, Blogger, Author, World Traveling Digital Nomad
    If you want to become a full time blogger you can buy my eBook here
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449546].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by ryanbiddulph View Post

      Only the present is real. Only the moment exists. So be there, and you will cease wasting time in past and future.
      I agree, because you cannot learn from your past, and why waste time on a future that never arrives?

      I am so glad that I never planned for the future. Those people that invest money for the future, instead of spending it all today...are fools.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449564].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Those people that invest money for the future, instead of spending it all today...are fools.
        Those people have never had any money to save, not yesterday, not today and they will die broke, more than likely in a very distant future that they don't believe is coming. That thought, brings a big smile to my face.

        I'm not a very nice man. lol

        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        Can you now see what an utterly ridiculous and paradoxical scenario this is?
        Most people can, but not the people that would put this crap out in the first place, regardless of how long and hard they thought about. Their heads would explode and their pea-brains would wind up in Earth orbit.

        Originally Posted by erealmz View Post

        As an added rule though, they can't give us winning lottery numbers or anything like that.
        Is that where we draw the line? Who's rule is that? If that's one of the rules, I'm not playing!

        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Chances are you could have had advice from older marketers - and you wouldn't have listened.
        True. Look at how many people totally ignored their advice and still pursued a career in marketing.
        Signature

        "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449570].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I am so glad that I never planned for the future. Those people that invest money for the future, instead of spending it all today...are fools.

        ? bit of joke right ?
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449620].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
    If you don't believe in a future, then you have no reason to live beyond today. People who don't believe in and never plan for a future, die broke.

    On that singular day, when I don't wake up, "Ya' got me." Until then, I look forward to a very bright future, because I'm now living the very bright future I envisioned for myself over a decade, ago. See how that works.

    How do people come up with this bullshit? Such narrow-minded, immature, defeatist thinking. Believing in nothing, gets you nothing. So very sad.
    Signature

    "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449547].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author erealmz
    I guess WF community has diminished. No wonder so many people on here don't make any money...

    Mods just close this thread before it attracts the trolls.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449590].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Coco Money
    Very inspirational, thank you for sharing your experience.
    I do think NOW is the golden age of Internet Marketing.
    I agree with you on not giving up because in the future your ideas and projects do pay off.
    And not only working in IM is an investment for your future, it's also a deep learning process where you acquire unique skills.
    For me, Internet Marketing is not only about blogging, SEO, and e-commerce, it's also about coding, video editing, audio editing, audio recording, video recording, graphic design...
    OH YEAH, now I'll answer your question haha:
    My future version on myself would tell me: keep doing what your gut feeling tells you to do.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449592].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author alex alexa
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449618].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by alex alexa View Post

      https
      All 6 posts, reported as SPAM!!! Welcome to the forum, loser!
      Signature

      "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449625].message }}
  • tbh I figure whatevah she said, she only after my FLESH.

    "O my Sweet, let me amaze you with visions of your incalculable successes!"

    "FFS -- getchya hands offa my boobies, you withered 'ol wraith!"

    "Aw, c'mon -- donchya wanna know how it all turns out so cool?"

    "Back off, Night Terror. Whatevah you promisin' -- no way ima settlin' for them BIG GAL PANTIES you wearin'!"

    "O, but this is the fyooture. An' you have so much more to learn."

    "Whaaaaat? Like excessive calorie intake an' a switchout from lacy fabrics to frickin' upholstery downhome on my fanj?"

    "Scream all you like. I know deep down you want in on my secrets."

    "Yeah, but that don't mean I gotta letchya whooshie off my skin like no peeled rabbit so's you can wear it like a dinky outfit to your next orthodontist appointment with Dr No Chance ..."

    Yeah, so f*ck her.

    Thing is, evrywan's fyooture self morphs as time passes.

    An' for sure the gal I mebbe woulda expected when I was a teen ain't nuthin' like the person who might end up droppin' on my ass rn.

    tbh past, present & fyooture is in deliciously evolvin' flux.

    An' all steps ultimately lead forward only.

    Which prolly means when I 60, daily jumpbacks to counsel STOOPIDHEAD MOI gotta be scheduled around hangin' out with people easily duped by moisturisin' skin care promo or else fully functionin' prowess regardin' an instinctive ability never to pee downya own legs at random.

    Meanwhile, here's the story on time's resident specters ...


    https://www.warriorforum.com/copywri...pywriting.html
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff together.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449643].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      t

      "Whaaaaat? Like excessive calorie intake an' a switchout from lacy fabrics to frickin' upholstery downhome on my fanj?"

      "Scream all you like. I know deep down you want in on my secrets."

      The takeaway from that whole exchange (given the statements made by your 60 years old self) is that even now deep down you realize your 60 year old version has to be more coherent because she couldn't possibly be less.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11450020].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author vasskachk
    Well, first of all, I would advise you to buy a lot of bitcoins and somehow deal with your future privacy.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449659].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by vasskachk View Post

      Well, first of all, I would advise you to buy a lot of bitcoins
      But you'd understand if you were laughed at and ignored, correct???
      Signature

      "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449661].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
    Originally Posted by erealmz View Post

    What would the they tell you? The reason I'm wondering is because I got into IM when I was about 25. Some ideas worked while others did not. I gave up on quite a hand full of potential ideas/websites that would have made me pretty wealthy by now (14 years later).

    I wished that could go back in time and tell my 25 year old self to just keep going with the things he was working on and not to give up because they WILL pay off. But obviously, I can not do that.

    So instead, I had a vision of my 60 year old self coming to me now days and telling me the same stuff that I wanted to tell my 25 year old self. He said that things were going to be so much better in the future. Everything will be easier as our lives adapt to the emerging digital age.
    ?
    Ok, but yeah, this is a sort of Time Machine, save the wife, so so can die again issue.

    Ditch IM, and stay with the Stockmarket, is what l would say. Or it might be easier to say, "Buy Apple"?



    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    I am a genius...a very stable genius. I know the best words. I know more about ISIS than the generals, believe me. Matt Whitaker is a great guy, I know Matt Whitaker. I never met Matt Whitaker, I don't know him.
    True your "101 Magic Tricks for Atheists" is legendary, and is always available in every seedy hotel toilet block, globally.

    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449713].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I suppose you could say it's a point of view thing.

    Would you meet yourself coming and going? I'd probably be so fascinated with the journey I'd forget what it was I was going to tell me.
    Signature

    Saving one dog will not change the world - but forever changes the world of one dog.
    Kindness is not an Act - It's a Lifestyle
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11449716].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author paulotr
    I'm 60 and did a lot of seminars over last 30 years for others to visualize their future. Always did mine at each seminar I conducted , and yes I am living the dream!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11450092].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by paulotr View Post

      I'm 60 and did a lot of seminars over last 30 years for others to visualize their future. Always did mine at each seminar I conducted , and yes I am living the dream!
      Of course you are. Time to wake-up. lol
      Signature

      "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11450122].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author whitemat
    Don't take advice from people behind a laptop or computer. Don't live a sedated life and don't feed your addictions, work towards understanding the dark, acute trauma that causes them instead. Listen twice as much as you talk. Don't get triggered by people who don't like what your doing or what you say (trolls). Do self therapy everyday and look for the revelations of why you did what you did that day, good or bad. **Mod, removed sentence**
    Signature

    Tim aka SalesMisfit
    salesmisfits.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11450263].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by whitemat View Post

      Don't take advice from people behind a laptop or computer. Don't live a sedated life and don't feed your addictions, work towards understanding the dark, acute trauma that causes them instead. Listen twice as much as you talk. Don't get triggered by people who don't like what your doing or what you say (trolls). Do self therapy everyday and look for the revelations of why you did what you did that day, good or bad. **Mod, removed sentence**
      And don't forget to ignore most of the psycho-babble that posters would like you to regard as deep thoughts from a deep thinker and if you don't support their assertions, they will simply label you a troll.

      Very deep, indeed!
      Signature

      "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11450423].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author janeoftrades
    Patience, effort, and consistency chick.
    Trust this process and try not to f**k it up.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11450412].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author gegli
    living on the social network is not infinite and we may get tired of it
    I'm afraid of that day, because we got used to it badly ...
    However, the social network has made me more friends and enjoy my life more for this

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11450445].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author erealmz
      Originally Posted by gegli View Post

      living on the social network is not infinite and we may get tired of it
      I'm afraid of that day, because we got used to it badly ...
      However, the social network has made me more friends and enjoy my life more for this
      I highly doubt that.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11450552].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Originally Posted by erealmz View Post

    What would the they tell you? The reason I'm wondering is because I got into IM when I was about 25. Some ideas worked while others did not. I gave up on quite a hand full of potential ideas/websites that would have made me pretty wealthy by now (14 years later).

    I wished that could go back in time and tell my 25 year old self to just keep going with the things he was working on and not to give up because they WILL pay off. But obviously, I can not do that.

    So instead, I had a vision of my 60 year old self coming to me now days and telling me the same stuff that I wanted to tell my 25 year old self. He said that things were going to be so much better in the future. Everything will be easier as our lives adapt to the emerging digital age.

    But he also said that this is the golden age right now for internet business. It is equivalent to a modern day gold Rush. Whatever projects or ideas I have in the works today are going to pay off big time in the future. He said to not give up on what I'm doing because if I do, he will remain stuck in his dead-end job, single, living in a one room shack with a beat up old car and a pet Chihuahua. And that's not the life he wanted.

    So what would your future version of yourself tell you?
    got a smart as comment so forgive me..

    now if these projects and ideas going now fail.. and do not amount to much.. will that mean that your 60 year old self never learned to stop telling themselves lies ..

    In any case .. we do not need our future self to come back and tell us a thing ..as the real gold today.. is all the data and information available ..to tell you the liklyhood of where you will be in 5-10 years or longer .. if you keep doing what you are doing now.. eating the way you eat.. or not doing .. like moving and staying healthy .. or living a lifestyle that allows you to save a big percent of you income .. and invest in better skills ..or business or invest in assets that will give residual income .

    I am 40 ..i looked 5 years ago and figure if i was still alive by 60.. i would probably be on disability ..and 350 pounds in a mortised wheel chair ..but if i continued on the path i was on..would probable have been dead before 50 ..

    no guarantee i won't dies at some point in the next 15 or 20 years ..by some accident or tragedy.. but i have rebuilt my health and i am close to in better physical shape than i was at 18 ..

    the gold or platinum or oil of the 21st century ..is data ..tons of dat is being gather on you..and can be easily acquired by you..do you use it to improve pretty much any area of your life .. or do you just let companies figure out what product to make and get the adds you are most likely to respond to in front of you ..

    there are an unlimited number of potential future selves ..are you going to become the one you want to be .. or the one that just happened ..

    even if everything you are doing now fails .. wil you learn enough along the way to build the future you you wish to be ..

    the best most power full way to live in the moment is to have a future you as far in the future as you can imagine ..you are working in this moment to become ..

    so what who is the you you want to be then .. but also who is the you you will be if you keep on the way you are now .
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11450556].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      no guarantee i won't dies at some point in the next 15 or 20 years ..
      Or, in your sleep, tonight!
      Signature

      "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11450580].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

        Or, in your sleep, tonight!
        Or from boredom reading this thread.
        Signature
        Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11450723].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author erealmz
      there are an unlimited number of potential future selves ..are you going to become the one you want to be .. or the one that just happened ..
      Thank you. This is worth a quote. Maybe even an Instagram post!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11450964].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by erealmz View Post

        Thank you. This is worth a quote. Maybe even an Instagram post!
        if i may.. can you adjust the quote if you really want to use it.. and change the one you want to become..to the one you work to become
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451276].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      there are an unlimited number of potential future selves ..are you going to become the one you want to be .. or the one that just happened ..
      So, wrong. There is only one one future self. The one that you actually become. Period!
      Signature

      "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11450971].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

        So, wrong. There is only one one future self. The one that you actually become. Period!
        only one can become a reality ..that why i used the word potential ..if i knew it work be quoted .. i would have said there will be one you work to become or the one that just happens ..

        but i use potential selves verse unlimited number of future selves ...genetic test that tell you the probabilities you may develop certain diseases or cancers or what ever.. but they are potentials than can be avoided based off actions you take now.. diet and lifestyle changes ..

        otherwise.. are you proclaiming there is destiny ... and choices you make do not really matter ..
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451275].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          otherwise.. are you proclaiming there is destiny ... and choices you make do not really matter ..
          We are all destined to die. Nothing you choose will change that outcome.

          Sorry. That's all I've got. I need some sunshine. lol
          Signature

          "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451291].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
            Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

            We are all destined to die. Nothing you choose will change that outcome.

            Sorry. That's all I've got. I need some sunshine. lol
            of course.. but i don't believe what we do between birth and death is predetermined .. now there are strong potentials .. but i doubt theere is a script for how the life unfolds ..

            but at any moment many potentials .. unless we slowly cement ourselves into a path ..and greatly reduce the potentials ..and the times we live in.. that cement tends to get brutally broken apart .. more than any other time in the past
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451295].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

              of course.. but i don't believe what we do between birth and death is predetermined .. now there are strong potentials .. but i doubt theere is a script for how the life unfolds.
              Every action that you take, every single minute of your life, alters any path you were on, before that particular moment. It's a random universe. The only thing that's preordained is the final outcome. That is, at least, for you mere mortals. I have an alternate plan, ready to go.
              Signature

              "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451312].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

                Every action that you take, every single minute of your life, alters any path you were on, before that particular moment.
                Which is why I spend my days doing absolutely nothing.
                Signature
                Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451321].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                  Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                  Which is why I spend my days doing absolutely nothing.
                  That, folks, is what's known as "unbridled Australian ambition."
                  Signature

                  Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451337].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

                Every action that you take, every single minute of your life, alters any path you were on, before that particular moment. It's a random universe. The only thing that's preordained is the final outcome. That is, at least, for you mere mortals. I have an alternate plan, ready to go.
                moment of your life ..all possible things that could happen have happened and are happening in this moment .. and your consciousness is wiggling through the next most like range of possibilities that keep the illusion of a continual flow of time ..you can also be going down multiple paths at once but then screening out the all except a single one ..that provide a type of experience ..so basically simulating a chain of evence to play a story out from inside the story

                but it is either here nor there .. so doesn't really matter
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451333].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
                  Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                  moment of your life ..all possible things that could happen have happened and are happening in this moment .. and your consciousness is wiggling through the next most like range of possibilities that keep the illusion of a continual flow of time ..you can also be going down multiple paths at once but then screening out the all except a single one ..that provide a type of experience ..so basically simulating a chain of evence to play a story out from inside the story

                  but it is either here nor there .. so doesn't really matter
                  Well, I hate to be mean, but that was nothing but a whole lot of hooey! lol

                  You did get one thing, correct. It doesn't really matter. Does, anything? That depends on your perspective and nothing more and in reality, it only pertains to you - in the generic sense of the word.
                  Signature

                  "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451344].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                    Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

                    Well, I hate to be mean, but that was nothing but a whole lot of hooey! lol

                    You did get one thing, correct. It doesn't really matter. Does, anything? That depends on your perspective and nothing more and in reality, it only pertains to you - in the generic sense of the word.
                    I actually expected you to be mean .. what a let down.. haha


                    there are a few different theories .. that one was the easiest to explain.. but it is really beyond me ..
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451652].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          otherwise.. are you proclaiming there is destiny ... and choices you make do not really matter ..
          If a person's actions are 100% predictable...is that destiny? Is there free will?

          My son and I had a similar discussion about our choices not mattering if our future is certain (like our past). i told him that the choices we make certainly do matter, but we were always going to make them.

          A shorthand for this thought is Laplace's demon. What if we knew everything about everyone on Earth, and knew the exact position, velocity, mass and pat of every particle of Earth?

          We would be able to predict, with unerring accuracy, the future actions of everyone and everything..

          Not precisely destiny, but complete predictability.

          Here's the Wikipedia page on it. I have had this thought for years, and didn't know that there was already a name for it...or that others saw the world this way. Interesting stuff.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace%27s_demon
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451300].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            If a person's actions are 100% predictable...is that destiny? Is there free will?

            My son and I had a similar discussion about our choices not mattering if our future is certain (like our past). i told him that the choices we make certainly do matter, but we were always going to make them.

            A shorthand for this thought is Laplace's demon. What if we knew everything about everyone on Earth, and knew the exact position, velocity, mass and pat of every particle of Earth?

            We would be able to predict, with unerring accuracy, the future actions of everyone and everything..

            Not precisely destiny, but complete predictability.

            Here's the Wikipedia page on it. I have had this thought for years, and didn't know that there was already a name for it...or that others saw the world this way. Interesting stuff.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace%27s_demon
            i don't believe in destiny .. or the common perception of free will ..as so many thing effect the choices we make there is less free will involved in the choices because if you go in a steak house.. the chances you will get a steak ..are down to which steak .. and the choice are governed by personal taste, financial ability , actual apatite when in the restaurant .. dietary restrictions.. or weather you already decided not to care before you went to the restaurant.. so in a way your choices are pre determined .. or at least restricted .. well before you sat down and looked at the menu ..

            but if you want to eat a really good steak weekly or often.. and not have negative health effect or strain on finances .. you chose to have the financial ability to purchase the steak, the diet that allows you to eat a big meal every week.. and the activity level to burn the calories off and stay fit ..

            free will properly applied is purposely restricting the choices you can make ..well before you are in a position to make the choice .. rather than making what ever choices in front of you where other factors have limited the choices you could make ..and it is rather easily predictable what choice you will make ..to others .. before you walk in the building

            Habits are more formed by habitat than personal choices .. unless you restructure as much of the habitat to make the choices you want .. rather than try to use willpower ..

            as far as things being fully predictable.. look at the weather .. and slight changes in weather .. or sudden sever weather .. can blow apart predictions
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451306].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

              i don't believe in destiny .. or the common perception of free will ..as so many thing effect the choices we make there is less free will involved in the choices because if you go in a steak house.. the chances you will get a steak ..are down to which steak .. and the choice are governed by personal taste, financial ability , actual apatite when in the restaurant .. dietary restrictions.. or weather you already decided not to care before you went to the restaurant.. so in a way your choices are pre determined .. or at least restricted .. well before you sat down and looked at the menu ..
              You could have gone out for Italian. That's free will. :-)
              Signature

              "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451317].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post


              as far as things being fully predictable.. look at the weather .. and slight changes in weather .. or sudden sever weather .. can blow apart predictions
              And if you knew the position of every air molecule and the temperature, humidity, air pressure...everything about the environment...you could accurately predict the weather for the next 1,000 years.

              It's like the entire universe works on an extremely complex algorithm, that we will never be able to see completely.....but makes everything that has ever happened, or ever will...completely unerringly predictable.

              The only reason we feel like we have free will is that we cannot know how we will behave or think until it actually happens. It's only at the instant that something happens that we an see how inevitable it was.

              Our awareness of reality is the only thing that changes as things happen. It's why movies can surprise us or cause us to cry...we haven't seen the movie to completion yet...even though the movie has already been made, and the sequence of actions in the movie cannot be changed. Only our awareness changes over time.


              Anyway, it's a thought.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451318].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                And if you knew the position of every air molecule and the temperature, humidity, air pressure...everything about the environment...you could accurately predict the weather for the next 1,000 years.

                It's like the entire universe works on an extremely complex algorithm, that we will never be able to see completely.....but makes everything that has ever happened, or ever will...completely unerringly predictable.




                Anyway, it's a thought.
                well then you get into simulation theory ..which is fairly interesting ..

                now i ask the hard to answer question.. if you could predict it all. accturatly..why even bother having it happen ..unless it is a simulation..and we just popped in for a certain chain of events in the timeline ..you can be in it but really not change anything to effect the outcome.. but if you had a perfect society where all the problems we have now don't exist and computers powerful enough to run such a simulation .. wouldn't now and what is going on ..and the range of possible life experience ..out of nearly 8 billion choices ...be a very interesting time to experience through simulation
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451330].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                  well then you get into simulation theory ..which is fairly interesting ..

                  I understand why simulation theory would pop up, but it doesn't follow. Predeterminism doesn't mean that we are in a simulation. A simulation could be as random as real life.

                  Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                  now i ask the hard to answer question.. if you could predict it all. accturatly..why even bother having it happen ..unless it is a simulation..and we just popped in for a certain chain of events in the timeline ..you can be in it but really not change anything to effect the outcome..
                  Just because you could know (if you had the mind of a god) everything that is ever going to happen, that just means you cannot be surprised. You could still enjoy it all...feel bad when people suffer, be happy when something good happens.....


                  Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                  but if you had a perfect society where all the problems we have now don't exist and computers powerful enough to run such a simulation .. wouldn't now and what is going on ..and the range of possible life experience ..out of nearly 8 billion choices ...be a very interesting time to experience through simulation
                  But we would always have these problems. What is a "perfect society"? As long as humans make up the society, we'll make the same mistakes as before.

                  We may be living in a simulation.....but it would have to be a simulation so complete that we even have consciousness...everyone does. And as appealing as the idea of a simulation is, I have no reason to believe it's true. And every argument in favor of the idea is based on faulty logic. At least everything I've read about it....here and elsewhere.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451335].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post




                    But we would always have these problems. What is a "perfect society"? As long as humans make up the society, we'll make the same mistakes as before.

                    We may be living in a simulation.....but it would have to be a simulation so complete that we even have consciousness...everyone does. And as appealing as the idea of a simulation is, I have no reason to believe it's true. And every argument in favor of the idea is based on faulty logic. At least everything I've read about it....here and elsewhere.
                    so we have always had the problem with obesity ..falling fertility rates, and the prospect of not needing people for their labor as we replace them with Ai,automation and robotics ... the biggest problem humans will have as ..tech and scientific advancement eliminate much of the struggle from human lives over the next century or two.. is the fragility.. we are already seeing in college kids who have had no real struggle in their lives ..

                    so when i say perfect society .. i mean that pretty much all the struggle removed ..but what will be needed is a way for people to simulate the struggle in some way .. to avoid people turning around and breaking the machines to have problems .. or just be fragile and turn into a mess at the minor hiccups
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451340].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                      so we have always had the problem with obesity ..falling fertility rates, and the prospect of not needing people for their labor as we replace them with Ai,automation and robotics ... the biggest problem humans will have as ..tech and scientific advancement eliminate much of the struggle from human lives over the next century or two.. is the fragility.. we are already seeing in college kids who have had no real struggle in their lives ..

                      so when i say perfect society .. i mean that pretty much all the struggle removed ..but what will be needed is a way for people to simulate the struggle in some way .. to avoid people turning around and breaking the machines to have problems .. or just be fragile and turn into a mess at the minor hiccups
                      My thought is that people will never be happy. They will always blame others and they will always take sides against "the enemy"...and they will always invent enemies.

                      One day a guy came into my store, and looked on his phone for an image. After about a minutes of not finding it, he said "This is my worst day ever". And he meant it.

                      We will always create gripes, problems, frustrations, because human nature doesn't change when problems are solved.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451346].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        My thought is that people will never be happy. They will always blame others and they will always take sides against "the enemy"...and they will always invent enemies.

                        One day a guy came into my store, and looked on his phone for an image. After about a minutes of not finding it, he said "This is my worst day ever". And he meant it.

                        We will always create gripes, problems, frustrations, because human nature doesn't change when problems are solved.
                        while homeless people are tyring to not freeze to death at night.. the guy you are talking about is having a bad day because he can't find an image in his phone .. fragile ..

                        give the homeless guy a couple warm blankets something to eat and a few beers and he will be happy.. while the guy with the cellphone issue .. will probably have some other problem to worry about before he goes to sleep tonight ..at least he may think about doing something to feel good about himself by feeding the homeless on thanksgiving ..or he might be putting it off untill xmas ..

                        if someone defines themselves by the problems they have.. or the things they think they have a right to complain about.. they will always find something.. if the define themselves buy the problems they have solved in their live or over come.. they are a lot less fragile and find it easier to be happy .. they might just need a good dog instead of a whole bunch of half friends ..
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451651].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                          give the homeless guy a couple warm blankets something to eat and a few beers and he will be happy..
                          Yes, and that will last for awhile. But we adapt to what we have,our station in life...and then the complaining, the perceived inequities, the level of tolerance changes.

                          It all has to do with personalities, instincts, and behavior. The behavior doesn't change with circumstances. We are still the same people.

                          Nearly everyone wants more than they have...no matter what they already have.


                          If someone thinks they are not getting "their fair share"..giving it to them only moves the bar of what they consider "fair".
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451655].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            Yes, and that will last for awhile. But we adapt to what we have,our station in life...and then the complaining, the perceived inequities, the level of tolerance changes.
                            Funny thing. When I was homeless and camped-out with other homeless veterans, the attitudes ran the gamut. It seemed like most guys were exactly as I imagined they were while on active duty. Some took everything in stride and rarely complained about anything. Others, they never stopped complaining from the minute their eyes opened in the morning. lol

                            It all has to do with personalities, instincts, and behavior. The behavior doesn't change with circumstances. We are still the same people.
                            That's true, but we do learn to adapt. If we're open to it we can change our behavior modestly and temporarily, to work better in the current situation. Sometimes, it's either adapt - or, die. Still, as the situation normalizes, the changes dissipate and we normally revert back to our normal selves. Only in very rare instances to people make radical life changes that they abide by until their demise.

                            Nearly everyone wants more than they have...no matter what they already have.
                            Also, true, but many people learn to be happy with what they have, especially if they realize that they have more than most people and don't have a right to complain. At some point, shame will rear its ugly head. Either that, or someone like me who knows what it's like to sleep in a cardboard box over a heating grate will tell them to STFU. lol

                            I'm pretty sure that my former trials are the reason why I can't handle hearing anyone complain about anything. They just don't realize how good they have it. I just can't stand it. There are people that can't hear, or can't see or can't walk that are doing a helluva lot more with their lives than many of us ever will - and I certainly put myself in that group. I know more than a few and I never hear them complain about anything.

                            If someone thinks they are not getting "their fair share"..giving it to them only moves the bar of what they consider "fair".
                            Well, it takes all kinds. Life may not be "fair," but that should never stop you from acquiring or achieving anything you want. Saying, "Life's not fair," is just another way of excusing your own failures in life.

                            Life is reasonably fair. Most of us are born with the requisite tools to make a good life for ourselves, regardless of where we started out. Obstacles are simply something to surmount, rather than be used as an excuse.

                            Life is a beautiful thing. That's why I'm never going to die. You can't make me! :-)
                            Signature

                            "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451672].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            Yes, and that will last for awhile. But we adapt to what we have,our station in life...and then the complaining, the perceived inequities, the level of tolerance changes.

                            It all has to do with personalities, instincts, and behavior. The behavior doesn't change with circumstances. We are still the same people.

                            .
                            those people who grasp that their behavior and actions will effect their circumstance ..can and will change their behavior to improve their circumstance ... while those who point outside themselves to the circumstances or the place they where raise,, the family they came from. the genetics .. or what ever list is seemingly beyond their control..will most likely just always end up in the same type of circumstances or worse ..

                            where they need someone ele to give them stuff to make up for the unfairness of it all ..

                            my personality has changed dramatically in the last two to three years ..and i am 40 ..but i have gotten out of the circumstance that molded the old personality and have different people around me who treat me far differently .. or in my mind better ..

                            it is only as determined as you believe it to be .. and as the circumstances support it to be
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451690].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
                          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                          they might just need a good dog instead of a whole bunch of half friends ..
                          I recommend this for everyone. So do most competent shrinks.
                          Signature

                          "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451677].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        One day a guy came into my store, and looked on his phone for an image. After about a minutes of not finding it, he said "This is my worst day ever". And he meant it.
                        I'm sure it was, but I'm thinking that he felt that way because he realized that he was in your store, looking at you. If that's not, "Worst day, ever!," I don't know what is.
                        Signature

                        "He not busy being born, is busy dying." - Bob Dylan • "I vibe with the light-dark point. Heavy." - Words that Bob Dylan wishes he had written.

                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451678].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                And if you knew the position of every air molecule and the temperature, humidity, air pressure...everything about the environment...you could accurately predict the weather for the next 1,000 years.
                This is one for the history books.

                Signature

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451525].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I

            Here's the Wikipedia page on it. I have had this thought for years, and didn't know that there was already a name for it...or that others saw the world this way. Interesting stuff.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace%27s_demon
            That wiki page is the literary equivalent of chloroform. Ergo, it makes sense that you posted it.
            Signature

            Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451307].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ronish Baxter
    It is the power of technology, everything is changed and developed. I can't question my past and imagine my future in this rapid change. Just go with the flow.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11450793].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Eugene Hill
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451448].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rob Hunsons
    I would just say "enjoy every life moment".
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11451601].message }}
  • I Am Would You Say Enjoy Your Life is the power of technology, everything is changed and developed. I can't question my past and imagine my future in this rapid change. Just go with the flow
    wazaif in Urdu
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11454559].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Trice
    this is some inspo thanks
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11457050].message }}
Avatar of Unregistered

Trending Topics