3 kids with swine flu and 20% of all Kids in US have had flu this month!

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I was skeptical about all the h1n1 propaganda...

That was until this week when three of my four kids have the flu.

Locally here there are no cases of flu that are not h1n1. The seasonal flu has not even showed up.

I saw one article that suggests that 20% of children in the US have had the flu this month:

1 in 5 U.S. kids had flu so far this month - Swine flu- msnbc.com

Some schools in our area have had 50% attendance and some have been closed because of it... I know more are staying home because of stricter guidelines...

We are careful in our home and have less exposure than most but we still have been hit with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Wow - This thing is very frightening to me. It seems to be spreading fast. Not to get too personal, but how are your kids handling it? Are they very ill?

    I'm not a conspiracy theorist by nature, but I honestly think that they are downplaying how serious this thing actually may get.
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  • Profile picture of the author mrnightowl
    Talking with my family back in Michigan they say basically the same thing. I see friends and family posting stuff on facebook everday about their kids getting the flu.

    Its crazy. I hope it doesn't get real bad, specially by Jan. or Feb. when these things usually spike in the U.S. The CDC's website has those charts and it doesn't look good.

    Eric.
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  • Profile picture of the author Phnx
    The Southern Hemisphere has just finished it's flu season, and no pandemic. What a surprise. Yet the Australians are talking about mandatory vaccines at the same time everyone else is rolling it out, this Oct/Nov. This makes no sense at all. There certainly isn't a scientific or medical case for vaccinating when the flu season is over.

    Nobody seems to be at all suspicious that the seasonal flu has graciously made way for "Swine Flu". How many SF cases are actually laboratory confirmed as such, I wonder.

    Sweden has been in full swing with the vaccines and the side effects are racking up. The authorities have decided to treat them all as "coincidences", and most Governments seem to have copied Bush and granted legal immunity to BigPharma. If they do get sued, any compensation comes from the taxpayers.

    "Yesterday 30 people had been reporting to the authorities in Sweden that they experienced such severe side effects that they felt the need to contact a hospital. Today the number is 140. The swedish newspaper Expressen is the only one in Sweden reporting on these cases and as usual this is most likely only the tip of a rather large iceberg. UPDATE: According to Dagens Nyheter, the number of reported side effects are now a few hours later 190. 1 person dies after the injection but "no direct relation with the injection has been established". The biggest medical scandal in the history of Sweden has just started....."

    Nurses got sick from the "swine flu" vaccine in Sweden ? UPDATE - 1 suspected death

    On the plus side, New York has apparently decided against mandatory vaccines for health workers. Hopefully others will follow suit.
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  • Profile picture of the author Phnx
    This article/interview is well worth checking out, from Dr Joseph Mercola, relating to a piece 60 Minutes recently did on Swine Flu.........

    ALERT: Special Swine Flu Update#
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Yes people are getting sick from swine flu -- but deaths in flu related illnesses (that usually are what kill people with flu) are fewer than normal for yearly flus. So why the panic? Drug sales. If you are told you MUST vaccinate your kid - ask to see the bottle and pkg that the vaccine comes in. You will find most say "18 and over" -- so you might wanna refuse the vaccine because they are tooting "off-label" usage. THe stats show that deaths from flu in under 5 yr olds really skyrocketed when they started giving vaccines to them. Not worth the risk right there........then if you want to consider the thermasol, holy crap.
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    • Profile picture of the author David McKee
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Yes people are getting sick from swine flu -- but deaths in flu related illnesses (that usually are what kill people with flu) are fewer than normal for yearly flus. So why the panic? Drug sales. If you are told you MUST vaccinate your kid - ask to see the bottle and pkg that the vaccine comes in. You will find most say "18 and over" -- so you might wanna refuse the vaccine because they are tooting "off-label" usage. THe stats show that deaths from flu in under 5 yr olds really skyrocketed when they started giving vaccines to them. Not worth the risk right there........then if you want to consider the thermasol, holy crap.
      Absolutely - I have examined some of the chemicals in that stuff- not going into my kids veins! Getting the flu would be preferable to some of that crap. By the way, did you know that there has never been a case of an Amish person giving birth to a child with Autism? Guess why? Because they don't allow anyone to inject them with mercury containing substances. Now, you might question their choices as to other drugs or medicines which are helpful, but with regard strictly to vaccines, you have to take notice of that.

      -DTM
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by David McKee View Post

        Absolutely - I have examined some of the chemicals in that stuff- not going into my kids veins! Getting the flu would be preferable to some of that crap. By the way, did you know that there has never been a case of an Amish person giving birth to a child with Autism? Guess why? Because they don't allow anyone to inject them with mercury containing substances. Now, you might question their choices as to other drugs or medicines which are helpful, but with regard strictly to vaccines, you have to take notice of that.

        -DTM
        Actually, it would be near IMPOSSIBLE for an amish person to have an "autistic" child. THEY INTERMARRY! They DO have maladies that are even WORSE than autism though, due to intermarriage. One is SO rare that it is considered an amish disease. I wish I rememered the name. It is ALSO less likely for an amish person to catch the flu, etc... They would care for the culture and tend to be fairly isolated.

        HEY, HERE is a nice example! Rare Diseases: Amish Lethal Microcephaly - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

        BTW this isn't even the one I was thinking of!

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Seems to be a myth:

        Do The Amish Vaccinate? Indeed They Do, AND Their Autism Rates May be Lower

        "Rebecca, who grew up among the Amish, confirms that about 70% of the Amish in Lancaster County do, indeed, vaccinate. "

        "Strauss also sees plenty of Amish children showing symptoms of autism. "Autism isn't a diagnosis - it's a description of behavior."

        Originally Posted by David McKee View Post

        By the way, did you know that there has never been a case of an Amish person giving birth to a child with Autism? Guess why? Because they don't allow anyone to inject them with mercury containing substances. Now, you might question their choices as to other drugs or medicines which are helpful, but with regard strictly to vaccines, you have to take notice of that.

        -DTM
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        • Profile picture of the author David McKee
          Well, I have read at least a half dozen reports to the contrary such as this: Why Don’t the Amish Have Autistic Children?

          Fact is, I don't have the facts - and it looks like there are as many stories for as against the idea that the Amish don't have austic children.

          So at this point I retract the comment until further verifiable data is available.

          -DTM
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        • Profile picture of the author David McKee
          Well, I have read at least a half dozen reports to the contrary such as this: Why Don't the Amish Have Autistic Children?

          Fact is, I don't have the facts - and it looks like there are as many stories for as against the idea that the Amish don't have austic children.

          So at this point I retract the comment until further verifiable data is available.

          -DTM
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Seems to be a myth:

          Do The Amish Vaccinate? Indeed They Do, AND Their Autism Rates May be Lower

          "Rebecca, who grew up among the Amish, confirms that about 70% of the Amish in Lancaster County do, indeed, vaccinate. "

          "Strauss also sees plenty of Amish children showing symptoms of autism. "Autism isn't a diagnosis - it's a description of behavior."
          well, Strauss isn't one I would listen to very much. It says:

          Strauss says he doesn't see "idiopathic autism" at the clinic, which he defines as children with average or above average IQs who display autistic behavior. "My personal experience is we don't see a lot of Amish children with idiopathic autism. It doesn't mean they don't exist, only that we aren't seeing them at the clinic."
          Idiopathic means of unknown origin. OR, as wikipedia says:

          Idiopathic is an adjective used primarily in medicine meaning arising spontaneously or from an obscure or unknown cause. From Greek ἴδιος, idios (one's own) + πάθος, pathos (suffering), it means approximately "a disease of its own kind."
          And that quote states and implies they see NO such people, and implies they do. Which is it? And his definition is quite loose.

          And autism IS PURELY a description of behaviour, even if that does have a physical or mental reason to occur, but he doesn't elaborate. Mental retardation is only specified to a degree in NON HFA Kanners. In HFA it is technically excluded(The floor is about 5 points or so above the ceiling for MR), and in Aspergers it is excluded all together!

          Still, a lot of autistic behavior may be hard to diagnose in amish, because of the society, etc... And it IS a different culture.

          And if he wants to say it is autism, but not QUITE, he can do what the industry says to do, and call it PDD-NOS! Pervasive developmental disorder - Not Otherwise Specified.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
            Two different statements. He doesn't see idiopathic but does see plenty of kids with symtoms of autism.
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            And that quote states and implies they see NO such people, and implies they do. Which is it?
            Yes, the article goes into this a little bit. Maybe this has something to do with the rising rates of autism among the general population: we are just more aware of it and looking for it more perhaps than in years past?

            Still, a lot of autistic behavior may be hard to diagnose in amish, because of the society, etc... And it IS a different culture.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    I have no desire to get a swine flue vaccine. Too untested and rushed to market. Plus i'm seeing stories of people that are getting off the wall nervous system issues after vaccination

    My feeling on this is that your body has an immune system just for this purpose, if you just let it do its job naturally
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    • Profile picture of the author mrnightowl
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      I have no desire to get a swine flue vaccine. Too untested and rushed to market. Plus i'm seeing stories of people that are getting off the wall nervous system issues after vaccination

      My feeling on this is that your body has an immune system just for this purpose, if you just let it do its job naturally
      I'm in the same boat. If people would live healthier lives and keep their immune system strong there would be a lot less issues. My entire life I've been against taking anything made in a lab(unless it was LSD). I don't even take tylenol or aspirin. I keep hydrated with lots of water and haven't had flu like sickness in probably 10 years or more.

      One point worth mentioning though is the more populated we are and the easier it is to travel over the past 50 years has really made these type of viruses thrive.

      Eric.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by mrnightowl View Post

        I'm in the same boat. If people would live healthier lives and keep their immune system strong there would be a lot less issues. My entire life I've been against taking anything made in a lab(unless it was LSD). I don't even take tylenol or aspirin. I keep hydrated with lots of water and haven't had flu like sickness in probably 10 years or more.

        One point worth mentioning though is the more populated we are and the easier it is to travel over the past 50 years has really made these type of viruses thrive.

        Eric.
        Yes, people need to answer for themselves why everyone is so sick. We weren't sick like this 60 years ago and a much larger percent of the population smoked back then. They also got out in the sun one heck of a lot - and didn't put chemical sunscreens on......they didn't eat GM foods - there was iodine in bread rather than bromite.

        Do you like trivia? In 1918 we had a virus that killed around 50 million people worldwide. There were no "cold and flu" medications and most people went to bed, drank fluids, and took aspirin to get well...........but when your lungs are compromised, aspirin isn't what you want to take - it causes pulmonary adema when you take it several times daily. With compromised lungs......that means water and bacteria. Now, use some bridging assumptions here......what do you think many of those people who went to bed and took aspirin died of?

        Leap ahead to 2009 and listen to the talk about getting the elderly vaccinated......look at the stats who's dying. The elderly aren't dying from this flu.....they have natural immunity from the residual flues of the 1918 flu. Why don't vaccinated people have that type of immunity to flu?

        There are thousands of chemicals being doled out to our population every day - almost impossible to be free of them........but they are breaking down the immunity........and they are being helped by a population of people scared crapless of sunshine..to the point they will slap carcinogenic sunblocks all over themselves to avoid it.

        And now there are more drugs on the market for them.....they might not be getting substantial mercury from their fillings so lets give them added doses in flu shots. Of course the fact that they are planning on sticking little kids with those needles when most of the labels put on flu vaccine by the manufactures themselves say "18 and Over" is nothing to be concerned about. It's the government, what are ya gonna do if something goes wrong? Sue em? Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha - why do you think the pharmeceutical companies made them sign a waiver? Could it have been because they were saying out loud that they won't be responsible for "off label usage"? They just got sued 3.2 Billion for that one, think they are going to allow the gov to walk in and pull a fast one on em?

        LMAO...........go get some sun and eat some oranges and tomatoes.....if something happens and you end up in the hospital if you specifically ASK for an ascorbic acid infusion, they will give it to you and it will kill your flu. Just remember........you have to ASK for it, they don't offer it.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Yes, people need to answer for themselves why everyone is so sick. We weren't sick like this 60 years ago and a much larger percent of the population smoked back then. They also got out in the sun one heck of a lot - and didn't put chemical sunscreens on......they didn't eat GM foods - there was iodine in bread rather than bromite.

          Do you like trivia? In 1918 we had a virus that killed around 50 million people worldwide. There were no "cold and flu" medications and most people went to bed, drank fluids, and took aspirin to get well...........but when your lungs are compromised, aspirin isn't what you want to take - it causes pulmonary adema when you take it several times daily. With compromised lungs......that means water and bacteria. Now, use some bridging assumptions here......what do you think many of those people who went to bed and took aspirin died of?

          Leap ahead to 2009 and listen to the talk about getting the elderly vaccinated......look at the stats who's dying. The elderly aren't dying from this flu.....they have natural immunity from the residual flues of the 1918 flu. Why don't vaccinated people have that type of immunity to flu?

          There are thousands of chemicals being doled out to our population every day - almost impossible to be free of them........but they are breaking down the immunity........and they are being helped by a population of people scared crapless of sunshine..to the point they will slap carcinogenic sunblocks all over themselves to avoid it.

          And now there are more drugs on the market for them.....they might not be getting substantial mercury from their fillings so lets give them added doses in flu shots. Of course the fact that they are planning on sticking little kids with those needles when most of the labels put on flu vaccine by the manufactures themselves say "18 and Over" is nothing to be concerned about. It's the government, what are ya gonna do if something goes wrong? Sue em? Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha - why do you think the pharmeceutical companies made them sign a waiver? Could it have been because they were saying out loud that they won't be responsible for "off label usage"? They just got sued 3.2 Billion for that one, think they are going to allow the gov to walk in and pull a fast one on em?

          LMAO...........go get some sun and eat some oranges and tomatoes.....if something happens and you end up in the hospital if you specifically ASK for an ascorbic acid infusion, they will give it to you and it will kill your flu. Just remember........you have to ASK for it, they don't offer it.
          WOW, you KNOW someone that is close to 100 years old that GOT the flu, and got over it quickly? That is hard to believe. And WHY then are old folks in a high risk group? My mother lived in a time where they STILL had disease parties, or whatever you would call them, where parents would gather their children around a sick child to get them sick! ESPECIALLY with boys and german measles, since for a little boy it is a nuisance, but it can be worse for a man. And Polio, Smallpox, chicken pox, german measles shots apparently last a good amount of time. Polio and smallpox have been virtually WIPED OUT!

          But you DO know why they call VACcinations vaccinations, right? Some doctor noticed that milk maids never got chickenpox! He figured that was because they got COW pox! He INTENTIONALLY infected a little boy with cow pox, and they found HE was resistant to smallpox. Of course, NOW they use viri they killed, etc... but the fact remains that viri MUTATE! If they mutate enough, the immune system won't recognize them.

          BTW in my book there are STILL no cold and flu medications! They NEVER worked for ME! Then again, ASPIRIN doesn't EITHER!

          Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Seems like a contradiction there Sal. We are actually more healthy and live longer now days.

          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          We weren't sick like this 60 years ago... In 1918 we had a virus that killed around 50 million people worldwide.
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    • Profile picture of the author trafficman01
      I can't agree more - well spoken!
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
    Wow - This thing is very frightening to me. It seems to be spreading fast. Not to get too personal, but how are your kids handling it? Are they very ill?
    No, that is the part of the mass propaganda campaign I would recommend not buying into...

    Flu can be a serious illness for some... like myself who have Asthma if they develop infections like Bronchitis or Pneumonia following the flu...

    But I have learned over the years how to care for myself to limit the potential for additional infections...

    At first sign of sickness I eliminate dairy from my diet to reduce mucus. I also eat healthy to begin with, try and get proper nutrition, and I have experience using medicinal foods as well to help along the healing process.

    Most effected with h1n1 experience normal flu symptoms and it can vary from case to case... from severe to almost unnoticeable.

    News stories can be very deceptive... telling you that someone who was perfectly healthy had complications...

    That could be any number of causes. We know nothing about diet, lifestyle, cleanliness, exposure to other viruses while sick, and what activities they did while sick or how they took car of themselves.

    For us... its just the normal flu stuff... a little nausia and vomiting, high fever, dry cough, feeling poorly, and for the other two similar... that does not mean we are out of the woods... but we're dealing with it and hopefully with the proper care and rest we can avoid bronchial infections.

    As for the vaccine debate... I think everyone should make an educated decision. I am not a fan of regular flu vaccine because of its history as one of the remaining bastions of mercury based preservative.

    I don't know if that is the case with the new h1n1 vaccine but I am also no fan of being a test patient for an untested vaccine like the h1n1 vaccine that does not have long term track record or data to back it up...

    I agree with Dr. Ron Paul's opinions:


    I think each individual needs to make their own decision.

    Personally... for our family, its just another flu, though particularly virulent and contagious. So far we seem to be dealing with it well...

    Its not the flu that is the real danger... its pneumonia or other underlying health and immune system issues combined with the swine flu.

    In 1918 approx 50 million people died as a result of a flu pandemic.

    Up to that point health care was widely quackery and snake oil. The average person in the us spent just $5 a year on health care (equal to about $100 today) and that was to buy remedies that had no real value.

    Health care, the way we take car of ourselves, precautionary measures, and treatments are a lot better now.

    Since that time modern health care has emerged... so far there have been around 5000 swine flu related deaths worldwide this year... that is related. Likely other factors such as bacterial infections and chronic illnesses contributed to a number of those.

    Also it is reported that h1n1 responds well to tamaflu which does not have as good of results on the seasonal flu.
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  • Profile picture of the author phil.wheatley
    Hey Josh

    I hope they all get better soon. I'm in London and it's starting to hit here, cases doubled since last week. I have a 3 year old daughter so I'm a bit worried, but just gotta hope we all pull through.

    Phil
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    • Profile picture of the author cconlan
      Me and my girlfriend had Swine Flu over the Summer months. It was quite unpleasant but I don't think it is worth all the hype. When you look at the statistics, you are more likely to die from influenza than swine flu.
      I would definately recommend avoiding the vaccinations as they can lead to other issues. My girlfriend has neurological problems which occured right after get a flu shot a few years ago.
      Best thing for swine flu is getting some tammy flu from your pharmacist. Obviously send someone else out to get it for you so you don't put others at risk. The number is on the increase of people who are getting affected. The good news is though if you get it now that you are unlikely to get it again.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    What gets me is that hospitals are saying that they are now shaking hands less, washing hands, limiting visitors, to limit sickness.

    That is IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!! It won't do ANY good!!!!! UNLESS!!!!!! UNLESS!!!!!!!!! They weren't doing it before!

    In other words, they are trying to look like they are careful, etc... and get PRAISE when, in REALITY, they are ADMITING the malpractice they always did.

    And believe me, I noticed that first hand when I saw how they treated ME, aand they wanted me to cough VERY hard to make sure I could spit out the phlegm from the sicknesses that only THEY could expose me to. Luckily, I managed to avoid it.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    Both my girls and my wife had swine flu last month and I am the only one who is still to be affected. As I have asthma as well, I feel that I should get the vaccine if it is offered to me.

    I don't think there was any hype about the speed of spread. In fact, it was probably underestimated. One of the biggest mistakes made was that the WHO and the national health authorities thought that it could be controlled or at least slowed down. But we obviously have much more air travel and trade than the last pandemic in 1968. This is becoming the fastest spreading influenza pandemic ever.

    As far as deaths go, although the overall mortality rate is comparable or even lower than H3N2. There is a big difference.

    The Associated Press: New info shows swine flu still hardest on young

    "Swine flu deaths were concentrated in young and middle-aged adults. A third of all deaths were people ages 25 through 49; another third were 50 to 64.

    Only 12 percent of deaths occurred in elderly. That's a stark contrast to the roughly 90 percent of deaths in the elderly from seasonal flu, Schuchat said at a Tuesday press conference."


    With seasonal flu, a lot of deaths occur in elderly people who are likely to die from some other causes anyway. But with swine flu, the deaths are concentrated in young and middle aged adults. Therefore the social impact of deaths would be much higher.

    The reason why the elderly seems to be protected against swine flu is that H1N1 was in wide circulation before 1957. If it had not, the number of deaths from this pandemic would be much, much worse.

    Derek
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    As much as flu viruses hate ascorbic acid and Vit D3, I don't understand why people would risk the dangers of tami-flu or vaccines instead of just beefing up their intake of oranges, tomatoes, peppers, etc and getting some darned sunshine. It doesn't make any sense to me. People out here are sick in droves - but we get lots of outdoors here and a LOT of the right nutrients and nobody in this house is sick even with a kid in school with kids coughing in her face all day. That's my proof that the doctors who attest to ascorbic acid and D3 seem to know what they are saying.

    BTW - Josh. Thermasol is what they are calling mercury in vaccines now - makes people less aware than to call it by it's real name. But that's what it is.
    I have asthma (I control it better than any doctor ever managed to) and I smoke. I have only had the flu a few times in my life, but when I feel like my lungs are getting swollen or infected I take cayenne and ginger and it clears up any problem I have with my breathing -- that and your suggestion of avoiding dairy. I've been to a doctor once in 12 years - and that was a dentist.
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    • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
      I use ginger and cayenne too... I have a 1 lb bag of organic cayenne powder that I started using more liberally when the kids got sick :-)

      I had a friend who was diagnosed with viral pneumonia and she was completely better in 7 days after taking ginger, garlic, eccanacia, and lemon tea three times a day that I concocted for her. It tasted awful but it helped!

      I have heard that the combination of ginger, garlic, and cayenne can be a powerful healing agent as well... but taking all three would be hard to do on the average stomach.

      Of course you know the best thing you can do for your health as an asthmatic is quit smoking :-)

      I quit for the second and last time 14 years ago.

      I wonder how many flu complications can be correlated to environmental hazards such as living with people who smoke, living in high air pollution level areas, living in squalid filthy bacteria or moldy and mildew filled conditions.

      One of the things I had to do to improve my general health was move to dryer climates away from the molds and mildews of the Northwest where I grew up. It has made it much easier to control my asthma.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I have asthma (I control it better than any doctor ever managed to) and I smoke. I have only had the flu a few times in my life, but when I feel like my lungs are getting swollen or infected I take cayenne and ginger and it clears up any problem I have with my breathing -- that and your suggestion of avoiding dairy. I've been to a doctor once in 12 years - and that was a dentist.
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  • Profile picture of the author Phnx
    This thing is getting weird....Reuters have reported that BO has signed a proclamation declaring Swine Flu a National Emergency, which sounds ominous. Obama declares swine flu a national emergency | Markets | Bonds News | Reuters

    But then there is this (pasted below) from CBS, which is directly contradicting the scaremongering. Guess things aren't going to plan when even the mainstream media is deciding it's all bollox.

    (They've just sent out millions of summonses over here, to invite "vulnerable" people to go get their jabs. Unfortunately, there's a postal strike on, so could be a few weeks before the backlog gets cleared. Things definitely don't seem to be proceeding smoothly. )

    CBS quotage:

    The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) states on their main flu Web site http://www.cdc.gov/flu/ that flu activity is increasing in the United States, with most states reporting "widespread influenza activity."

    The CDC goes on to say, and I quote:

    "So far, most flu is 2009 H1N1 flu (sometimes called "swine flu")."

    But wait stop the presses.

    A three-month-long investigation by CBS News, released earlier this week that included state-by-state test results, revealed some very different facts. The CBS study found that H1N1 flu cases are NOT as prevalent as feared. A CBS article even states:

    "If you've been diagnosed "probable" or "presumed" 2009 H1N1 or "swine flu" in recent months, you may be surprised to know this: odds are you didn't have H1N1 flu. In fact, you probably didn't have flu at all."

    Obviously CBS News and the CDC are completely contradicting each other. So who is right?

    Well, CBS reports that in late July 2009 the CDC advised states to STOP testing for H1N1 flu, and they also stopped counting individual cases.

    Their rationale for this, according to CBS News, was that it was a waste of resources to test for H1N1 flu because it was already confirmed as an epidemic.

    So just like that virtually every person who visited their physician with flu-like symptoms since late July was assumed to have H1N1, with no testing necessary because, after all, there's an epidemic.

    It's interesting to note that at the same time as the CDC decided the H1N1 epidemic warranted no further testing for cases due to its epidemic status, Finnish health authorities actually downgraded the threat of swine flu.

    In late July the health ministry and the National Institute for Health and Welfare (THL) in Finland actually removed swine flu from a list of diseases considered dangerous to the public because the majority of cases recovered without medication or hospital care!

    And, as the CDC continues to use fear to motivate and control Americans with their worst-case swine flu scenarios, they say nothing of the experience of those in the southern hemisphere, which just finished their flu season and found it was not as bad as expected.

    CBS News Finds H1N1 Tests "Overwhelmingly Negative"

    Before beginning their investigation, CBS News asked the CDC for state-by-state test results prior to their halting of testing and tracking. The CDC did not initially respond so CBS went to all 50 states directly, asking for their statistics on state lab-confirmed H1N1 prior to the halt of individual testing and counting in July.

    What did they find? CBS reported:

    "The results reveal a pattern that surprised a number of health care professionals we consulted. The vast majority of cases were negative for H1N1 as well as seasonal flu, despite the fact that many states were specifically testing patients deemed to be most likely to have H1N1 flu, based on symptoms and risk factors, such as travel to Mexico."

    As you can see from this CBS News graphic, not only are most cases of suspected flu-like illnesses not H1N1, they're not even the flu but more likely some type of cold or upper respiratory infection!





    CBS Reveals that Swine Flu Cases Seriously Overestimated


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    • Profile picture of the author Lady_T
      My household got hit with the swine flu too.

      It's the first time in 10 years that I've gotten sick. It's crazy. I hired a cleaning company to come in and sanitize the house because I just wasn't up for it.

      The kids had to stay out of school a "mandatory" 7 days and they pretty much felt bad 6 out of those 7 days. I thought I'd have to keep them home a couple more days.
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  • Profile picture of the author Phnx
    Where is it? :confused:

    (BTW Indy, some of the text on your page gets cut off by the black sidebar when viewing with IE7)
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  • Profile picture of the author Phnx
    The only error I found was calling Dr Diane Harper Susan.

    Nice collection of sustainability books. Groovy!
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  • Profile picture of the author mrnightowl
    Anyone can argue doctors and news results or cdc surveys and graphs. But the truth of the matter is to ask yourself. Because asking yourself is what is most important anyway. Being influenced by media and people that goto school for half their lives and have basically no sense of anything else other than what they are looking in to, is not being true. Ask yourself one question. Do I feel that I know more people that are sick with the flu than what I remember? Obviously this is my opinion. But "I" feel that people rely on other people way to much to answer questions that they already know.

    Eric.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    OK, personal observations of a household can't be taken as fact, because the chances of infection INCREASE as you are closely confined with other people. The OPs post surprised me because he spoke of a wider study that claimed 20% of the US is infected!
    I have seen, or heard, over a hundred people every day for the past few months, and very few even seem SICK! A couple seem to be REALLY bad from time to time but, based on symptoms and frequency, I would say it is some type of malady like bronchitis.

    The later statement of:

    Well, CBS reports that in late July 2009 the CDC advised states to STOP testing for H1N1 flu, and they also stopped counting individual cases.

    Their rationale for this, according to CBS News, was that it was a waste of resources to test for H1N1 flu because it was already confirmed as an epidemic.
    Shows an utter LACK of competence! One wonders why there is a conspiracy going on. I know there HAS to be a conspiracy because I can't be the ONLY one that noticed that almost EVERY death reported earlier even "IN THE US" was a person from MEXICO! I believe I even mentioned that here earlier. In one case, they discussed it several times before they mentioned that the infants mother was visiting from mexico. In other cases, they said "US DEATH" most of the time, but in the details, they mentioned FROM MEXICO.

    Deaths, especially to the elderly and very young, OFTEN happen, regardless, but perhaps the first dozen reports were FAKE and NONSENSE, so one wonders how many others are valid. NOBODY is THAT scared of the flu. It is the idea of death that is the determining factor.

    Heck, If I ran the government, I would want to find out how many deaths occured, and what country the people were born in and recently visited, or had a vistor from.

    IMAGINE the SHOCK if everyone in mexico were suddenly told that there was a major "enterotoxigenic Escherichia coli" epidemic, and that people have DIED, etc.... HECK, its symptoms aren't great ANYWAY! Mexico DOES have an "enterotoxigenic Escherichia coli" epidemic! It MIGHT have caused deaths! But Mexicans are SO used to it that they don't get the symptoms. Probably NONE of them die from it. Americans CAN get sick though, and that is why americans are told "DON'T DRINK THE WATER". In fact, "enterotoxigenic Escherichia coli" is nicknamed "montezuma's revenge". Who knows? Maybe that is part of the reason they are susceptible to H1N1.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      Testing for swine flu is very expensive in terms of reagents, equipment, and salary costs (high level of expertise and time required). It is no wonder that virtually all countries have stopped testing every suspect case for the simple reason that they can't afford it.

      Having said that, there is still some background sampling and testing going on so that they have a fair idea what proportion of flu cases are due to swine flu.

      If anything, the tendency now is to downplay it as much as possible so as to not consume more resources. The main aim now is to avoid the medical services and other essential services and industries from being overwhelmed.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        Testing for swine flu is very expensive in terms of reagents, equipment, and salary costs (high level of expertise and time required). It is no wonder that virtually all countries have stopped testing every suspect case for the simple reason that they can't afford it.
        Yeah, I kind of dropped my point which is that if testing doesn't even indicate 1/5 total contagion in the sample study, don't claim it in the whole. AND, if they haven't done that, and people aren't dying left and right, don't make it an EMERGENCY. They may even be testing people that have died, or gotten VERY sick, and counting that as the whole.

        I think I said it before, but one agency was once quoted as saying 30% of the US is diabetic. What they ACTUALLY said was that it was 13% and 30% of them don't know it.

        GRANTED, 10% is BAD, but 30% would be down right SCARY! Heck, I had a few diabetic symptoms, and generally test my blood sugar to make sure(I have to often test my INR anyway). But my blood sugar has been below 100.

        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        Having said that, there is still some background sampling and testing going on so that they have a fair idea what proportion of flu cases are due to swine flu.

        If anything, the tendency now is to downplay it as much as possible so as to not consume more resources. The main aim now is to avoid the medical services and other essential services and industries from being overwhelmed.
        I guess we'll have to wait and see how the US handles this.
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  • Profile picture of the author himynameisemily
    Everyone seems to have swine flu lately. Luckily for me I just got my vaccine for it =)
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    My wife and son were diagnosed with the swine flu on Friday from their doctor. Luckily, they are showing only mild symptoms, with no fever.

    (While researching the swine flu, I found that a fever may or may not be present.)

    Now I'm showing the same symptoms, and my work sent me home. When I called my doctor (a different doctor, not the same one my wife and kids use), they said I should be fine if there is no fever present.

    So now I have to go to work because I will not have a doctors excuse in order to get paid, and I'll probably be spreading the flu around to others. (I'll probably use the rest of my vacation time to avoid this situation)

    Do your own research and do what it takes to protect yourself, because no one else will. Your doctors and nurses are probably not well informed.

    I'm thinking the mild symptoms that my family is experiencing is due to the advice HeySal gave us many months ago. I had us all taking Vitamin D3 and Vitamin C, but probably not in high enough doses to keep the virus completely at bay. (But that's only an uneducated guess)
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post


      Do your own research and do what it takes to protect yourself, because no one else will. Your doctors and nurses are probably not well informed.

      I'm thinking the mild symptoms that my family is experiencing is due to the advice HeySal gave us many months ago. I had us all taking Vitamin D3 and Vitamin C, but probably not in high enough doses to keep the virus completely at bay. (But that's only an uneducated guess)
      Would love to take credit - but it wasn't really MY advice -- it's the result of many non-pharmaceutical/industrial studies that are being done now. We have so much Vit D3 deficiency since the sunscreen manufacturers started the big sun scare that it's a wonder that people are even surviving daily crap let alone flus.

      Vitamin D3 isn't just a Vit - it's a hormone and lack of it can cause some major syndromes and diseases. It's a basic need nutrient. Doctors were the intitiaters of the studies and they are the ones who are advocating more sunshine.

      We have to remember something that people seem to be relavently unaware of:
      Doctors can't do each study out on their own - they rely on studies released into circulation to keep themselves updated with what is going on. When what they receive is propeganda released by corporations for the purpose of insuring their sales (and which often slide through the FDA because of corporate money) they take the info at face value unless they see descrepencies with given info and patients health. If they see much descrepency and have resources they will initiate studies or do a fine tooth comb of the research done on an issue to find flaws in studies.

      Information about Vitamin C infusions to kill virus, and about Vitamin D3 were all studies intitiated by Health Professionals when they saw the perscribed treatments, etc just didn't add up. That is why we now have information on Vit D3 vs Vit D2.......until recently, all we ever heard about was D......because nobody had studies to differentiate until doctors started wondering out loud why there was so much D deficiency going on when food was supplemented.
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      • Profile picture of the author barbling
        So far, my kids and family have not been hit by it (yay!) but whenever we do come down with any sort of sickness, I generally dose the individual with cayenne pepper/salt water gargles; kids despise it but wow, it really does help to clear up infections.

        I also believe that so long as a fever is below 103 or so, it's the body's natural way of fighting off infections. I let the body do its job.

        Hope everyone's family gets better soon!!
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    Derek Wong,

    I know you're not Nostradamus, and a crystal ball is not very scientific with your training, but is this swine flu likely to mutate so we'll see different strains of this every year?

    If we do see different strains, will it likely be less dangerous to kids and young adults since their bodies will now recognize this swine flu?

    Dave
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      David, this is getting very complicated. In essence with highly mutating viruses such as influenza A, HIV, and Noroviruses, we now tend to use the term "quasispecies" to describe them.

      Quasispecies model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      Quasispecies Structure and Persistence of RNA Viruses

      So basically, you are not dealing with a single strain of a particular virus but a whole family of related sub-strains at the same time. So probably by this time, there are already lots of sub-strains of swine influenza viruses already, often infecting the same person at the same time. Each of them would mutate constantly giving rise to more and more sub strains.

      Some substrains would be more virulent and more would be less. Some would be resistant to anti-viral agents, and some would not. Essentially, this is why they have to reformulate the seasonal influenza vaccine each year.

      In the case of swine flu, since it is still very early in the pandemic. There would have been less time for highly divergent sub-strains to appear. Therefore, it is likely that a closely matched vaccine would be more effective than the usual seasonal fly vaccine.

      As a virus adapts in humans, it is actually more likely to be less virulent i.e. cause less severe disease. But again since we dealing with a whole family, it remains possible that a really nasty and highly transmissible substrain may emerge.


      Derek
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    but the fact remains that viri MUTATE! If they mutate enough, the immune system won't recognize them.
    Yes Steve, they do, which is why you don't have to be over 100 to be immune to that virus - only pre-vaccine. Many studies are showing that the natural immune system is effective, and vaccines are only effective for 1 strain, and you need redose. And yes - I have had several relatives live to be over 100 (two to 110) and they NEVER got flu shots and they never got sick either. Mentally sharp, physically independent. They died quickly, not lingering illnesses -- their hearts stopped beating while they were sleeping. Not a bad way to go.

    But they lived most of their lives before high toxins were rampant - in water, in food, etc...and their immune systems were quite healthy.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Yes Steve, they do, which is why you don't have to be over 100 to be immune to that virus - only pre-vaccine. Many studies are showing that the natural immune system is effective, and vaccines are only effective for 1 strain, and you need redose. And yes - I have had several relatives live to be over 100 (two to 110) and they NEVER got flu shots and they never got sick either. Mentally sharp, physically independent. They died quickly, not lingering illnesses -- their hearts stopped beating while they were sleeping. Not a bad way to go.

      But they lived most of their lives before high toxins were rampant - in water, in food, etc...and their immune systems were quite healthy.
      Why did you say yes? You didn't answer my question. I've had relatives that lived over a hundred years too, BIG DEAL! I mean lived that long, and got heavily exposed to the flu, or a sickness due to it, and recovered quickly.

      Hey, A LOT of things make it worse now. More people, less care, more traveling, etc.... If AIDS occured a hundred years earlier, it probably would have DISAPPEARED before it could really spread. In a couple weeks, it spread to SEVERAL countries! HECK, CONTINENTS!

      There are SO many variables.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Neil Barrett
    I had swine flu back in July and it was the worst flu I have ever had.

    However I did get over it fairly quickly and in fact was in hospital for an operation 3 weeks after the first symptoms showed up.

    I think unless you have some previous respritory conditions as the Op does or other in anither at risk group (such as pregnant women) I think it's just another illness but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Not really, Tim. You get hundreds of millions of people worldwide with flu every year still. That one was a bad one and it happened before people understood these types of illnesses. Aspirin was a drug that killed many of the flu victims in that round, not flu.

    Yes, we are living longer - but much of that can be contributed to other factors such as controlled heat/cooling -- access to nutrients in winter that weren't once available, or to people who had no previous access. A lot of our modern lifestyle can account for longer lifespans. At the same time, however, people have become generally less healthy. Obesity is rampant - and that is one of the worst health issues going. More and more autistic kids - or generally drugged kids, more asthma, more cancer.

    While medicine has come a long way in helping to treat many of these illnesses....it doesn't do anything for preventing the growing incidence of disease.

    I'm not totally against the Medical community...but I think that our populations are very generally ill even if their lifespan can be artificially lengthened. People used to die of asthma and now there is medicine for it......but there is also about 3 times the incidence of it. So we aren't healthy...we're actually much more ill, we just know how to sustain the illnesses better. The medical community is making hundreds of billions because people are NOT healthier.

    It is innately a juxtaposition and a contradiction to an extent. But to another extent we now have the means to prolong our lifespans, it seems we should look for ways to do so with a bit more health involved in that life.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      So we aren't healthy...we're actually much more ill, we just know how to sustain the illnesses better. The medical community is making hundreds of billions because people are NOT healthier.

      Well, my mother won't listen to me, and I can't very well tell her she has various problems, EVEN if she knows it. But the doctors have done a real job on her. I think they have made things WORSE!

      My hospital did a BOGUS test on me, and wants me, and my insurance company, to pay $1888 extra, AFTER the insurance reduction. That is about 750 for me, 1138 for my insurance company and who knows HOW the various contract credits will affect us.

      And for WHAT!?!?!? Exposing me to excess radiation? ESPECIALLY parts where it is EXTREME NEGLIGENCE to do so! I could have been HARMED by that. I may have already been harmed.

      And nurses basically told me they were going to TRY to give me pneumonia and if I didn't push my body to the brink when I could(and at that risk being able to do so if I had to), then they would consider such contagion to be MY fault! There are LOTS of ways hospitals get money.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Indiana
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Indiana View Post

      OK...Earthwatch..HIN1...Is now online live...

      EARTHWATCH: RHS1 Global Rockhound Community Enviromental News E-zine.

      You know this report is the bottom line...Its content...is the real disccusion...

      You know Steve I read today..."Justice conceides in vaccine autist link"...

      Google "exact phase" for info...I have so much info coming at me I cannot
      possibly remember location...This is what my report says in a nutshell...There is NO pandemic...More importantly ...Dr Moulder...Ba: Ma: Phd: Md:...Thats the only game in town...The rest is Flim Flam...Move forward warriors...What is your take on Dr moulder?

      Indy

      Well, IDIOTS talk about how there is an AUTISM epidemic! If Autism shot up 300%, NOBODY could tell! WHY!?!?!?

      Well, around the 80s, they created the HFA classification! THEN, in 1994(IIRC) they created the AS classification. REAL AS patients would kind of miss as HFA, and REAL HFA would FAIL the old autism test. So the number of people with autism would SKYROCKET with NO increase in the prevalence of any malady! And WHAT IS HFA and AS? I have heard of MR people being diagnosed HFA or AS EVEN though the DSM SPECIFICALLY excludes them! Some IDIOT "doctors" say that people that have a 95+ IQ CAN'T be AS because they have such a high IQ(I believe that even 95 is considered in normal range, but there is no ceiling for AS anyway), even though it SPECIFICALLY excludes others. Things are SO ridiculous that they are thinking of getting rid of AS and possibly getting rid of HFA as a diagnosis. And they speak of Fragile X and Retts as being autism when they aren't.

      It really is getting ridiculous.

      Frankly, I never thought much of psychiatrists or psychologists, and hearing about the garbage with autism just further supports that position.

      And the head of "autism speaks" does NOT have an autistic child. Her child has CDD! Childhood Disintegrative Disorder, Autism/PDD: Yale Child Study Center So even THEY can't be trusted in even the most basic statements!

      BTW most, or perhaps all, that give an example of a link between a vaccine and "autism", give symptoms of CDD! Ironically, there IS a sickness that, in theory, COULD present these symptoms, and it IS discussed as a possible symptom of vaccinations and several other things. They talk about it on "house" a LOT, and talk about it on similar medical shows. What is it? Guillain-Barr Syndrome Information Page: National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS)

      Why don't DOCTORS know about this? Perhaps they DO! But symptoms are generally given for kids to old adults, and NOT babies. BUT, imagine how it might affect a BABY!!!!! HERE are is a statement describing it from the institute of health....

      Guillain-Barré syndrome is a disorder in which the body's immune system attacks part of the peripheral nervous system. The first symptoms of this disorder include varying degrees of weakness or tingling sensations in the legs. In many instances, the weakness and abnormal sensations spread to the arms and upper body. These symptoms can increase in intensity until the muscles cannot be used at all and the patient is almost totally paralyzed. In these cases, the disorder is life-threatening and is considered a medical emergency. The patient is often put on a respirator to assist with breathing. Most patients, however, recover from even the most severe cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome, although some continue to have some degree of weakness. Guillain-Barré syndrome is rare. Usually Guillain-Barré occurs a few days or weeks after the patient has had symptoms of a respiratory or gastrointestinal viral infection. Occasionally, surgery or vaccinations will trigger the syndrome. The disorder can develop over the course of hours or days, or it may take up to 3 to 4 weeks. No one yet knows why Guillain-Barré strikes some people and not others or what sets the disease in motion. What scientists do know is that the body's immune system begins to attack the body itself, causing what is known as an autoimmune disease. Guillain-Barré is called a syndrome rather than a disease because it is not clear that a specific disease-causing agent is involved. Reflexes such as knee jerks are usually lost. Because the signals traveling along the nerve are slower, a nerve conduction velocity (NCV) test can give a doctor clues to aid the diagnosis. The cerebrospinal fluid that bathes the spinal cord and brain contains more protein than usual, so a physician may decide to perform a spinal tap.
      EVEN if it affected a baby in an IDENTICAL way, it would explain many of the symptoms. BUT, it attacks NERVES, so you would think it could affect the brain itself.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Well my daughter woke up with it this morning. She vomited a couple of times, and had a fever for a couple of hours, but it quickly went away and she has been ok for most of the day now (thank God!)

    I'm starting to feel some pain in my chest now however. Waiting to see how bad it gets. I'm not exactly the healthiest eater, but I do exercise regularly and drink a lot of fluids.
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  • Profile picture of the author iliveonarainbow
    Ugh, swine flu is getting more and more common at my school. There's a rumor a 9 year old kid died of it, but I'm not sure if it's true or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Gary...your daughter throws up a few times is okay afterwards, yet you attribute that to the flu? Sounds to me like low grade food poisoning or post nasal drip.

    One thing I've noticed is that every year during flu season every time people don't feel right they attribute it to the flu. Flu is a pulmonary ailment.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Gary...your daughter throws up a few times is okay afterwards, yet you attribute that to the flu? Sounds to me like low grade food poisoning or post nasal drip.
      I almost said the same. You are probably RIGHT. Besides, I sometimes feel VERY sick when I get up but, within an hour, I am FINE. I don't trust such feelings so early in the morning.

      One thing I've noticed is that every year during flu season every time people don't feel right they attribute it to the flu. Flu is a pulmonary ailment.

      Isadore rosenfeld said that swine flu is DIFFERENT, and has intestinal distress. So the symptoms AS GIVEN, COULD match swine flu, except swine flu would last longer, and have a fever.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author garyv
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Gary...your daughter throws up a few times is okay afterwards, yet you attribute that to the flu? Sounds to me like low grade food poisoning or post nasal drip.

      One thing I've noticed is that every year during flu season every time people don't feel right they attribute it to the flu. Flu is a pulmonary ailment.
      No I didn't attribute that to the flu, the doctor's test did. I took her there imediately after she woke up w/ a fever an vomited the first time. She's very petite and doesn't deal w/ illness very well. I pretty much knew what it was before we had her tested, because my mother is sick with it and it is hittiing her much harder. And yes my daughter was completely well after only a few hours. Her doctor said that some people are testing positive without ever having a fever, and very few symptoms.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    I tend to be an over protective dad (and a tad bit paranoid where my children are concerned). Thank God no one at my Children's school has H1N1. It would definitely hit too close to home - they are all home schooled. No guarantee against anything but at least it decreases the odds.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Steve - it would stand to reason that if the flu is ingested it might cause distress in the abdominal tract........a very good time to give someone a dish of yogurt....and let the calcium do its work of increasing stomach acid to levels which will annihilate the bacteria. That is another thing I found in my research was people had much more difficulty when eating anti-acids. Makes much sense to me. Same with food poisoning...calcium. It promotes the production of stomach acid and that acid kills many bacterias and I would presume it can do a dose of damage to virus as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Indy - it's SUNNY and mostly dry in CA. Go figure.
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  • Profile picture of the author Slin
    Umm...Vaccine for the regular flu has to change every year, and is tested about the same as H1N1 vaccine.

    Plus it's not like you are forced to take it. I got swine flu over the summer before a vaccine was available.

    I tend to have severe asthma while sick (which is weird, I can play sports and job fine, but when I get sick it's horrible) let's just say it wasn't pretty.

    I really wish I was able to get a vaccine before then.
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  • Profile picture of the author STKING
    Those numbers are totally mis-represented. They only 'claim' that it is the swine flu b/c it isn't "regular flu season" yet....you have to be tested to determine that it is really swine flu. Most schools and agencies are just assuming that it is.

    These flu shots are hilarious to me: they have such a low efficacy rate (2-3%) in past years, yet people flock and pay $20-$30 to get poison injected in their bloodstream. Not me.....

    Too many vaccines in my opinion...why? Hello...... BIG PHARMA $$$$$$$$$$$$$
    It's one of the biggest lobby groups in the government.

    By the way, the swine flu doesn't have a higher death rate than the normal flu...just more publicity....the media loves hype and scare tactics.
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