Mysterious signal from deep space is repeating in 16-day cycle

39 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
Mysterious signal from deep space is repeating in 16-day cycle

Excerpt..

Fast radio bursts (FRBs) are perhaps the most mysterious anomaly in space, with many having unknown origins. According to a new study, an FRB has been spotted coming from a galaxy 500 million light-years from Earth and it's repeating every 16 days.

And no one knows why.
Avatar of Unregistered
  • Turns out a buncha weirdo aliens contacted Whatto regardin' killah spidah expertise to help with their planetary invasions & stuff.

    But their message made no sense.

    So now their entire comms system is caught in a loop bcs he replied with a half past nine.
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576198].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author natostanco
      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      Turns out a buncha weirdo aliens contacted Whatto regardin' killah spidah expertise to help with their planetary invasions & stuff.

      But their message made no sense.

      So now their entire comms system is caught in a loop bcs he replied with a half past nine.
      HAHAHA! Imagine that though! Still, aliens?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576235].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

    Mysterious signal from deep space is repeating in 16-day cycle

    Excerpt..

    Fast radio bursts (FRBs) are perhaps the most mysterious anomaly in space, with many having unknown origins. According to a new study, an FRB has been spotted coming from a galaxy 500 million light-years from Earth and it's repeating every 16 days.

    And no one knows why.
    Nobody knows what it is, but the regular 16 day cycle indicates that it is an orbiting body that is usually blocked by either its Sun or the planet it revolves around.

    An added note. What we are seeing happened 500 million years ago. By the way, similar radio bursts happen by the interplay between Jupiter and its innermost moons.

    Another note. Did you know that the other galaxies are moving away from us (because of the expansion of the space between galaxies) that even if we traveled at the speed of light...we would never visit another galaxy. And eventually, they will be receding from us so rapidly, that we will see no other galaxies in the night sky, but our own.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576287].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    Why would anyone think we'd find intelligent life 500 million light years away when we can't even find any in Wooster, Ohio?
    Signature

    If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576294].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I always thought it was the height of human arrogance to believe 'we' are the best - or the only - 'folks' in the universe.
    Signature
    Stuck at home? Adopt a pet now while you have time to spend on training. Volunteer to help at your local shelter or take in a foster pet. Adoptions are down - shelters are full.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576295].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I always thought it was the height of human arrogance to believe 'we' are the best - or the only - 'folks' in the universe.
      I agree. But I think it also says something about us...that we think that any complex life form on a distant planet would look anything like us...or have followed anything remotely similar to our evolutionary path.

      It's also strange to me that seeing something like this immediately draws out the most fantastic conclusions, instead of exhausting any of the more known ones first.

      Added later. It's entirely possible that we are the only planet in our own galaxy, that has the ability to send out man made radio waves.

      To get to where we are today as a species took an unbelievable, long, set of random events to make primates even possible. We are not a normal result of evolution, but of evolution combined with millions of events that had to occur, to steer evolution in this direction.

      Picture a baseball rolling down a hill. Now, the hill is a billion miles high, and the ball has to land at the bottom...in a spot that is only slightly bigger than the diameter of the baseball. Now there are millions of random events that have to happen, as the baseball goes down the hill...to steer it in the right direction....rocks colliding with the baseball, trees that just happen to be in the right place...that sort of thing.

      Evolution is the path the baseball took, and we are the spot where it landed. But for the nearly impossible path the baseball took, it would almost certainly not landed anywhere close to where it did land, to get us. And in the same way, we would almost certainly never evolved in the same way we did.

      Although almost certainly, we aren't the only life, we may be the only life with the technology, in our own galaxy, to detect other planets with technology.

      Maybe some day we will know.
      I don't think we are special (I've met Riffle)...or awesome...but we may be extremely rare, because the repetition of the exact conditions..and series of events...for anything resembling humans to result...would be extraordinarily rare.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576298].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I agree. But I think it also says something about us...that we think that any complex life form on a distant planet would look anything like us...or have followed anything remotely similar to our evolutionary path.

        It's also strange to me that seeing something like this immediately draws out the most fantastic conclusions, instead of exhausting any of the more known ones first.

        Added later. It's entirely possible that we are the only planet in our own galaxy, that has the ability to send out man made radio waves.

        To get to where we are today as a species took an unbelievable, long, set of random events to make primates even possible. We are not a normal result of evolution, but of evolution combined with millions of events that had to occur, to steer evolution in this direction.

        Picture a baseball rolling down a hill. Now, the hill is a billion miles high, and the ball has to land at the bottom...in a spot that is only slightly bigger than the diameter of the baseball. Now there are millions of random events that have to happen, as the baseball goes down the hill...to steer it in the right direction....rocks colliding with the baseball, trees that just happen to be in the right place...that sort of thing.

        Evolution is the path the baseball took, and we are the spot where it landed. But for the nearly impossible path the baseball took, it would almost certainly not landed anywhere close to where it did land, to get us. And in the same way, we would almost certainly never evolved in the same way we did.

        Although almost certainly, we aren't the only life, we may be the only life with the technology, in our own galaxy, to detect other planets with technology.

        Maybe some day we will know.
        I don't think we are special (I've met Riffle)...or awesome...but we may be extremely rare, because the repetition of the exact conditions..and series of events...for anything resembling humans to result...would be extraordinarily rare.
        Let's not forget that the planet we live on also underwent millions/billions/trillions of random events in order to provide the right environment that enabled the myriad evolutionary events that resulted in life as we know it.
        Signature
        When they turn the pages of history, when these days have passed long ago,
        Will they read of us with sadness, for the seeds that we let grow
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576317].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I agree. But I think it also says something about us...that we think that any complex life form on a distant planet would look anything like us...or have followed anything remotely similar to our evolutionary path.

        It's also strange to me that seeing something like this immediately draws out the most fantastic conclusions, instead of exhausting any of the more known ones first.

        Added later. It's entirely possible that we are the only planet in our own galaxy, that has the ability to send out man made radio waves.

        To get to where we are today as a species took an unbelievable, long, set of random events to make primates even possible. We are not a normal result of evolution, but of evolution combined with millions of events that had to occur, to steer evolution in this direction.

        Picture a baseball rolling down a hill. Now, the hill is a billion miles high, and the ball has to land at the bottom...in a spot that is only slightly bigger than the diameter of the baseball. Now there are millions of random events that have to happen, as the baseball goes down the hill...to steer it in the right direction....rocks colliding with the baseball, trees that just happen to be in the right place...that sort of thing.

        Evolution is the path the baseball took, and we are the spot where it landed. But for the nearly impossible path the baseball took, it would almost certainly not landed anywhere close to where it did land, to get us. And in the same way, we would almost certainly never evolved in the same way we did.

        Although almost certainly, we aren't the only life, we may be the only life with the technology, in our own galaxy, to detect other planets with technology.

        Maybe some day we will know.
        I don't think we are special (I've met Riffle)...or awesome...but we may be extremely rare, because the repetition of the exact conditions..and series of events...for anything resembling humans to result...would be extraordinarily rare.
        Unless human/ape-like DNA spread throughout space after it had evolved for a period of time. Not sure we have to assume our entire genetic evolution was on this planet or that the entire evolutionary "roll" was all down totally different mountains. I agree with your general idea, only that it isn't absolute.

        I wonder if DNA could be "frozen" as it travels through space on a comet at near absolute zero? Maybe life evolved just enough that it greatly reduces the potential random results and still survive?
        Signature
        Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
        Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576318].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Unless human/ape-like DNA spread throughout space after it had evolved for a period of time. Not sure we have to assume our entire genetic evolution was on this planet or that the entire evolutionary "roll" was all down totally different mountains. I agree with your general idea, only that it isn't absolute.

          I wonder if DNA could be "frozen" as it travels through space on a comet at near absolute zero? Maybe life evolved just enough that it greatly reduces the potential random results and still survive?
          As a matter of logic, I can't fault this thought.

          But, how would that happen? What could possibly be the cause? How would primate DNA get off a planet? Although your thought isn't irrational, there is nothing that I can think of that would support such an idea.

          Yes, some bacteria can be frozen and survive, not only space, but being blown off it's host planet. Some single celled life has been shown to be able to survive...frozen..in space.

          It's possible for single celled life to have been transferred here, and that's what started it all....but primate DNA?

          How the heck would a few cells containing primate DNA turn into a primate, after it landed on another planet? Primate DNA isn't the same as DNA from bacteria. Bacteria just needs to thaw, eat, and reproduce. Primate cells don't do anything except degrade. They are simply too specialized. It's why skin cells, hair, or blood we shed doesn't turn into Mini-Me.

          Added later; I see you also mentioned human DNA.

          Yes, it's possible for human DNA to go off planet. But animal DNA breaks down over a century of more. It's why we can't create mammoths, or saber tooth tigers.

          But...say an astronaut died in space, froze, traveled for millions of years (as it would have to to reach another solar system)...and the body just happened to land on a very Earth like planet...with plants, and single celled life?

          Assume the body didn't get destroyed during entry....a huge assumption.

          How would any part of a body, or any of the cells...become a new person, or even anything close to a living creature? For that idea to be viable, there has to be a way, that makes sense, for human cells to become...with no advanced genetics equipment....and only landing on land or water....new people.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576323].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            As a matter of logic, I can't fault this thought.

            But, how would that happen? What could possibly be the cause? How would primate DNA get off a planet? Although your thought isn't irrational, there is nothing that I can think of that would support such an idea.

            Yes, some bacteria can be frozen and survive, not only space, but being blown off it's host planet. Some single celled life has been shown to be able to survive...frozen..in space.

            It's possible for single celled life to have been transferred here, and that's what started it all....but primate DNA?

            How the heck would a few cells containing primate DNA turn into a primate, after it landed on another planet? Primate DNA isn't the same as DNA from bacteria. Bacteria just needs to thaw, eat, and reproduce. Primate cells don't do anything except degrade. They are simply too specialized. It's why skin cells, hair, or blood we shed doesn't turn into Mini-Me.

            Added later; I see you also mentioned human DNA.

            Yes, it's possible for human DNA to go off planet. But animal DNA breaks down over a century of more. It's why we can't create mammoths, or saber tooth tigers.

            But...say an astronaut died in space, froze, traveled for millions of years (as it would have to to reach another solar system)...and the body just happened to land on a very Earth like planet...with plants, and single celled life?

            Assume the body didn't get destroyed during entry....a huge assumption.

            How would any part of a body, or any of the cells...become a new person, or even anything close to a living creature? For that idea to be viable, there has to be a way, that makes sense, for human cells to become...with no advanced genetics equipment....and only landing on land or water....new people.
            As I said above, I generally agree with your original premise but it wasn't absolute. Your original example assumes the entire processes of evolution are independent. It's impossible to know this.

            There could be shared evolution too and none of your points rule this out. But if we assume there either is, or has been, intelligent life on other planets that would be one explanation. And there may be other explanations that are "unknowable" at this time.

            BTW tradigrades survived in space orbit for 10 days and they're not single celled.
            Signature
            Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
            Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576342].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              As I said above, I generally agree with your original premise but it wasn't absolute. Your original example assumes the entire processes of evolution are independent. It's impossible to know this.
              How would evolution on different planets not be independent? Or do you mean something else?





              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              BTW tradigrades survived in space orbit for 10 days and they're not single celled.
              Yup. And ten days is not millions of years. And they were gently flown into orbit, not blasted into space by a meteor hitting the ground.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576359].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                How would evolution on different planets not be independent? Or do you mean something else?

                Yup. And ten days is not millions of years. And they were gently flown into orbit, not blasted into space by a meteor hitting the ground.
                Independent meaning evolution on every individual planet is totally unique to that planet and that multiple planets can't have life that shares part of the evolution.

                This theory means that in addition for "seeds of life" can't be shared from one planet to another "naturally" but also excludes the possibility that intelligent life didn't play a role in the knowable history of the universe.

                The point with the tardigrades is that they were not single celled life.

                Also, you're confusing probability with possibility and that somehow my examples are intended to be the only possibilities. Their only point is to show that something is possible, not probable.

                But...I find it more improbable that all life in the history of the universe only existed on the same planet all its ancestors also evolved. I also find it more probable that ape-like life only exists here. I just don't think it's the only possibility...and we'd have to define "ape-like".
                Signature
                Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
                Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576368].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  Also, you're confusing probability with possibility and that somehow my examples are intended to be the only possibilities. Their only point is to show that something is possible, not probable.
                  The problem with Possible VS Probable is that the word Possible, to some, means rational and likely. In fact some read that something is possible, and they think that it's evidence. Not all brains think alike.

                  Is it possible that life can share its evolution across planets?
                  Well, my brain isn't the size of the known universe, and I possess no god-like powers.
                  So, I have to concede that it's possible. In the same way gold transmuting into lead is possible.

                  But nothing that I know of remotely supports that idea.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576383].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    The problem with Possible VS Probable is that the word Possible, to some, means rational and likely. In fact some read that something is possible, and they think that it's evidence. Not all brains think alike.

                    Is it possible that life can share its evolution across planets?
                    Well, my brain isn't the size of the known universe, and I possess no god-like powers.
                    So, I have to concede that it's possible. In the same way gold transmuting into lead is possible.

                    But nothing that I know of remotely supports that idea.
                    Seriously, this is like the 4th time you missed the point. You claimed that there was only one way for life to evolve and that it couldn't be brought from other places. You need to prove the point, not me. I offered an alternative. You don't have any proof that life generated on Earth either, even if we even do spontaneously create life ourselves though we haven't actually done just yet.

                    I believe the more likely life is throughout the universe the more likely there are "seeds" that can spread life from planet to planet.

                    The Chinese just grew a plant on the Moon. That's proof of alien life growing where it didn't evolve.
                    https://bigthink.com/surprising-scie...na-moon-cotton

                    We are either the smartest beings ever, or we aren't. How are you setting the odds on us being the only ones in the history of the universe to grow a living being on another planet (moon)?
                    Signature
                    Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
                    Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576393].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                      Seriously, this is like the 4th time you missed the point. You claimed that there was only one way for life to evolve and that it couldn't be brought from other places. You need to prove the point, not me. I offered an alternative. You don't have any proof that life generated on Earth either, even if we even do spontaneously create life ourselves though we haven't actually done just yet.

                      I believe the more likely life is throughout the universe the more likely there are "seeds" that can spread life from planet to planet.

                      The Chinese just grew a plant on the Moon. That's proof of alien life growing where it didn't evolve.
                      https://bigthink.com/surprising-scie...na-moon-cotton

                      We are either the smartest beings ever, or we aren't. How are you setting the odds on us being the only ones in the history of the universe to grow a living being on another planet (moon)?
                      NASA has also cooked its first cookie in the ISS, which is the greatest achievement in human history to some, but if l see Ma, and Pa's Zero Gravity Chock Chip Cookies on sale for $100,000 l will pass.

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576414].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                      Seriously, this is like the 4th time you missed the point. You claimed that there was only one way for life to evolve and that it couldn't be brought from other places. You need to prove the point, not me. I offered an alternative. You don't have any proof that life generated on Earth either, even if we even do spontaneously create life ourselves though we haven't actually done just yet.
                      No. I said that life evolved here. The first single celled life could have been transported, although there is no reason to think that happened.

                      The proof (of what I actually said) is the unbroken chain of fossil evidence that gives the entire chronology of evolution on Earth, at least as far back as the first mass extinction.


                      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                      The Chinese just grew a plant on the Moon. That's proof of alien life growing where it didn't evolve.
                      https://bigthink.com/surprising-scie...na-moon-cotton
                      It said "The conditions within this small, cylindrical biosphere were similar to those on Earth, besides the microgravity and cosmic radiation."

                      They grew a plant in a micro biosphere on the moon, with earthlike conditions. The only things that were different than Earth were the micro gravity, and the cosmic radiation.

                      This is just proof that cotton will grow (at least a little) in a micro gravity, without a magnetic field to stop cosmic radiation. If a seed were simply dropped on the Moon, it would die.



                      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                      We are either the smartest beings ever, or we aren't. How are you setting the odds on us being the only ones in the history of the universe to grow a living being on another planet (moon)?
                      Like I said, we just transferred Earth's environment to the Moon, and one seed survived and grew.

                      I'm not setting the odds. I have no idea what's out there. I only know something of what's here.

                      Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

                      Understood, however the evolutionary chain supported by fossil records does not mean that humans did not evolve without the direct manipulation from an off planet civilization because...

                      There is no record of any kind that maps out what happened to the primate brain or if the primate brain was manipulated as it evolved.
                      You mean as the primate brain evolved over millions of years? There are dozens and dozens of complete skulls mapping out our evolution from monkey-like ancestors. We don't have the brains, but we have the skulls. I cannot think of any rationale for the idea that aliens influenced our evolution.

                      If there is no proof that something didn't happen..yet no reason to believe that it did, then I would assume it didn't happen. Of course, I could be wrong.

                      Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                      https://mars.nasa.gov/news/453/scien...uid-iron-core/

                      So Mars has stronger magnetic fields than we do in the right areas, as well as a molten core, which means it has an overall field, not as strong as ours but still there.

                      So land in the right area, and no sunburn, etc.

                      The article said nothing about a magnetic field. You simply made that up. Mars has extremely weak, small local magnetic fields on its surface, because there are small amounts of iron on its surface, like on any rocky planet.

                      These magnetic fields are literally as strong as a hand held magnet's magnetic field. There is no protection from radiation on Mars. The radiation on Mars is well measured and documented. It's this radiation that, over eons, blew away Mars' atmosphere.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576664].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        The article said nothing about a magnetic field. You simply made that up. Mars has extremely weak, small local magnetic fields on its surface, because there are small amounts of iron on its surface, like on any rocky planet.

                        These magnetic fields are literally as strong as a hand held magnet's magnetic field. There is no protection from radiation on Mars. The radiation on Mars is well measured and documented. It's this radiation that, over eons, blew away Mars' atmosphere.
                        Make that up, not really, if Mars has a molten core then some planetwide coverage is a given, the amount of protection is a mystery, although weak is close.

                        The presence of these crustal fields gives rise to local mini-magnetospheres, i.e. small areas where the lines of the magnetic field locally protect the planet surface from electrically charged particles.

                        https://www.space.dtu.dk/english/Res...magnetic_field


                        And some areas are stronger than others, although comparisons of how much this would protect someone, (as an example) against sunburn, isn't available.

                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11579189].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                          Make that up, not really, if Mars has a molten core then some planetwide coverage is a given, the amount of protection is a mystery, although weak is close.
                          Shane;
                          Most of the planet's surface has no magnetic field at all. The small fields that are found are so small they barely show up...and that's from the rover that's on the surface.
                          Solar radiation goes around the planet, because the planet is in the way, not because it has a magnetic field surrounding the planet..

                          Cosmic radiation? Nope, it all gets in.

                          There is no planetary protection at all. A molten core doesn't create a magnetic shield, a spinning iron core does. And there is none of that on Mars.

                          The article said that Mars may once have had a magnetic field, like Earth.
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11579211].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        No. I said that life evolved here. The first single celled life could have been transported, although there is no reason to think that happened.

                        The proof (of what I actually said) is the unbroken chain of fossil evidence that gives the entire chronology of evolution on Earth, at least as far back as the first mass extinction.
                        You're confusing "proof" with "evidence". There's a huge difference. And it was never denied that there isn't a record of evolution on Earth. There is no logical reason to believe it couldn't have been transported, either by "nature" or intelligent beings...or both.

                        You're failing again to prove life was generated here on Earth first. Prove that these single celled organisms didn't come from some place else?

                        Or another possibility that both happened. Earth has both life that spontaneously formed on Earth AND there is alien life here. Don't conflate possibility with probability, which you have done a lot on this thread.

                        Any one single theory is inprobable, including that life only evolved here.



                        It said "The conditions within this small, cylindrical biosphere were similar to those on Earth, besides the microgravity and cosmic radiation."

                        They grew a plant in a micro biosphere on the moon, with earthlike conditions. The only things that were different than Earth were the micro gravity, and the cosmic radiation.

                        This is just proof that cotton will grow (at least a little) in a micro gravity, without a magnetic field to stop cosmic radiation. If a seed were simply dropped on the Moon, it would die.
                        This time your use of "proof" is correct.

                        But your comments assume it's impossible that other intelligent life wouldn't have had the capability to also seed other worlds. The fact is it is an alien life form that grew somewhere else, and you wanted "proof" it was possible. It was proven to be possible.

                        For you to assume that all possibilities are limited by natural environments is faulty at best. You ignore that this was our very first attempt and that we may well have the tech to do so, say 500 years in the future isn't logical.

                        Are you claiming that it's impossible that in even 100 years we could alter DNA of cotton to grow on the Moon? Or we could terraform the Moon is some way to grow cotton? Or that other intelligent lifeforms through out the known history of the Universe couldn't have done it at any time either?

                        Or that life could have been brought from another place on comets (for example) and as luck would have it could survive in our environment?


                        Like I said, we just transferred Earth's environment to the Moon, and one seed survived and grew.

                        I'm not setting the odds. I have no idea what's out there. I only know something of what's here.
                        And I'll say, "So?"

                        It was our first try and is absolute PROOF your earlier statement was incorrect. Again, your changing the goal posts. We know for a FACT an alien plant grew on another planet/Moon...and on our very first try.

                        You mean as the primate brain evolved over millions of years? There are dozens and dozens of complete skulls mapping out our evolution from monkey-like ancestors. We don't have the brains, but we have the skulls. I cannot think of any rationale for the idea that aliens influenced our evolution.

                        If there is no proof that something didn't happen..yet no reason to believe that it did, then I would assume it didn't happen. Of course, I could be wrong.
                        Except that isn't what I meant. Only that the basic building blocks that could evolve into humans was brought here. It's entirely possible and I contend likely that the very same single cell if started today would result in totally different species 350 million years or so later than what we have today. From the very same DNA that produced us.

                        It's like pulling a slot machine with billions of potential outcomes, looking at one one of them (humans) and saying this is how they all have to be.

                        I don't believe the Ancient Alien theory, but those folks do point out there are some gaps in our evolution, and it isn't mapped out quite as well as you're claiming. Again, probably right but not certainly right.

                        I am not trying to convince you of any single possibility, only that there are many and we don't have enough info to make absolute comments like you did in your earlier posts. You're making absolute arguments that rule out all other possibilities.

                        By the way...NASA feels it's very possible for us to take life other places accidentally either through humans or unmanned vehicles. I'd say that's some pretty good evidence that it is possible to transport life to other worlds, at least according to some pretty smart people.

                        Care to update your odds now?

                        We realize you're no rocket scientist yourself...but still.

                        Interplanetary contamination
                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interp..._contamination

                        Rules guarding other planets from contamination may be too strict
                        https://www.sciencenews.org/article/nasa-rules-guarding-other-planets-contamination-may-be-too-strict

                        Signature
                        Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
                        Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11585720].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                          You're confusing "proof" with "evidence". There's a huge difference. And it was never denied that there isn't a record of evolution on Earth. There is no logical reason to believe it couldn't have been transported, either by "nature" or intelligent beings...or both.

                          You're failing again to prove life was generated here on Earth first. Prove that these single celled organisms didn't come from some place else?
                          And, somehow you are failing to understand my post. Let me repeat it here...the part you quoted

                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          No. I said that life evolved here. The first single celled life could have been transported, although there is no reason to think that happened.
                          You are arguing against a point that I didn't make.

                          You said...

                          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                          You're failing again to prove life was generated here on Earth first. Prove that these single celled organisms didn't come from some place else?

                          Because I said


                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          No. I said that life evolved here. The first single celled life could have been transported, although there is no reason to think that happened.
                          Both statements are entirely congruent.

                          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                          For you to assume that all possibilities are limited by natural environments is faulty at best. You ignore that this was our very first attempt and that we may well have the tech to do so, say 500 years in the future isn't logical.
                          I agree, had I actually said anything remotely like that, it would have been wrong. You are arguing a point that I did not make,.



                          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                          Are you claiming that it's impossible that in even 100 years we could alter DNA of cotton to grow on the Moon? Or we could terraform the Moon is some way to grow cotton? Or that other intelligent lifeforms through out the known history of the Universe couldn't have done it at any time either?

                          Or that life could have been brought from another place on comets (for example) and as luck would have it could survive in our environment?

                          Nope. I'm making no such claim. And I have no idea why you would think so.


                          And Shane thanked your post. I consider that evidence that you are wrong.
                          I'm joking, but not entirely.
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11585881].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


                            And Shane thanked your post. I consider that evidence that you are wrong.
                            I'm joking, but not entirely.
                            Geesh, Claude haven't you watched episode one of Cosmos yet, (not the temple of doom bit, the lazer one).

                            We should be able to discuss that in more detail soon, barring the 30 year war.

                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11585884].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            And, somehow you are failing to understand my post. Let me repeat it here...the part you quoted

                            You are arguing against a point that I didn't make.

                            You said...

                            Because I said

                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

                            No. I said that life evolved here. The first single celled life could have been transported, although there is no reason to think that happened.

                            You are arguing against a point that I didn't make.

                            Both statements are entirely congruent.
                            Congruent but incomplete. There is no reason to think life wasn't brought here either. Until you can prove ALL life started here, you can't make an assumption it didn't. You are not applying logic evenly to both sides.

                            Unlike you, I gave PROOF and evidence that life can be transferred. Give me PROOF (actually evidence) that livfe spontaneously started here. As I said, I believe this is the most likely, but NOT absolute. And even if you can prove it did, this doesn't rule out alien life could have come here too. You can't seem to understand this.

                            However, even if life did start here, it doesn't mean other life didn't start here. To believe that our fossil record shows every life form that ever lived here is faulty.

                            There are other possibilities supported by science and reasonable thinkers.

                            And Shane thanked your post. I consider that evidence that you are wrong.
                            I'm joking, but not entirely.
                            Really? You're going to post an blatant ad hominem fallacy?

                            Shane..start thanking Claude's posts to show how wrong he is, because if you thank a post it can't possibly be accurate. Don't thank this one though. We want to make sure it's correct.

                            The problem with Possible VS Probable is that the word Possible, to some, means rational and likely. In fact some read that something is possible, and they think that it's evidence. Not all brains think alike.

                            Is it possible that life can share its evolution across planets?
                            Well, my brain isn't the size of the known universe, and I possess no god-like powers.
                            So, I have to concede that it's possible. In the same way gold transmuting into lead is possible.

                            But nothing that I know of remotely supports that idea.
                            Let me make it simple for you. Choose the one you think is the most likely:

                            We are the most technically advanced civilization in the history of the Universe
                            -or
                            We're not.

                            Given: We can transport life to other planets/moon, therefore we can assume a more advanced society can/would to the same.

                            There's only two choices. Pick one as the most probable. If your brain isn't big enough for this one, flip a coin.

                            Life being transported because of "natural causes" isn't the only possibility. Our real rocket scientists are concerned about us doing it, and have been sinced the very start of our space program.

                            It's hard for me to believe we are the only "species" in the 14.5 billion years of the known universe to have this capability.


                            BTW:
                            But what of the fabled transmutation of lead to gold? It is indeed possible--all you need is a particle accelerator, a vast supply of energy and an extremely low expectation of how much gold you will end up with. More than 30 years ago nuclear scientists at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (LBNL) in California succeeded in producing very small amounts of gold from bismuth, a metallic element adjacent to lead on the periodic table. The same process would work for lead, but isolating the gold at the end of the reaction would prove much more difficult, says
                            https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ned-into-gold/

                            Not only is turning lead into gold possible, it's been done, at least closely enough to prove it's possible. I know, you'll say "but it's just a little bit"...so save your time.

                            So, I have to concede that it's possible. In the same way gold transmuting into lead is possible.
                            Signature
                            Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
                            Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11585928].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                              Given: We can transport life to other planets/moon, therefore we can assume a more advanced society can/would to the same.
                              We can make no such assumption.

                              A more advanced civilisation might actually mean they've worked out how to get along with each other without the need to destroy themselves and the environment in which they live.

                              In fact what makes them more advanced could be a whole range of other things, not necessarily the ability to travel between the stellar objects.
                              Signature
                              When they turn the pages of history, when these days have passed long ago,
                              Will they read of us with sadness, for the seeds that we let grow
                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11586436].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    The problem with Possible VS Probable is that the word Possible, to some, means rational and likely. In fact some read that something is possible, and they think that it's evidence. Not all brains think alike.

                    Is it possible that life can share its evolution across planets?
                    Well, my brain isn't the size of the known universe, and I possess no god-like powers.
                    So, I have to concede that it's possible. In the same way gold transmuting into lead is possible.

                    But nothing that I know of remotely supports that idea.
                    Gold transmuting into lead eh. I'm sure thousands of alchemists really hoped that were possible?
                    Signature

                    Marriage, For The Best Arguments

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11579248].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                      Gold transmuting into lead eh. I'm sure thousands of alchemists really hoped that were possible?
                      They cannot transmute pink icing to gold, eventhough someone here wishes otherwise.

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11581079].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  .and we'd have to define "ape-like".
                  Shared characteristics of all apes, gorillas, and humans. That.

                  What are the odds that another life form, on another planet, has bones...and they are the same number as we have...and all mammals have.(some may be remnants, as in whales). Muscles, nerves, digestion...all mammals share almost all of that.

                  My guess is that it wouldn't happen again on any planet in this galaxy.
                  But if we saw that, I would consider that evidence that we somehow were transplanted to that planet in the last 100,000 years.

                  Could that primate have been transported here in our past? No. Because we have a detailed fossil record of the entire evolutionary path we took. We evolved here, from the time we could reproduce as bugs....we evolved here.

                  A possible exception is Cephalopods. They are so different, they may have broken away from any other life form before the Permian extinction.

                  I suppose if someone wanted to argue that life came from another planet to evolve here....that's where I would look.

                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                  I think that in order for a planet to support life aside from air, water etc. It also must have an effective magnetic field to deflect the harmful stuff from it's sun. I don't know if they have found any traces on the exo-planets found but there are some in our solar system like Jupiter (massive) which would not support life but it may be protective in blocking radiation from it's moons.

                  Then there is the debatable subject of what if humans went away from the Earths field for any length of time. Are we affected by it and is it a long term requirement for life. We don't know, never been far enough. Going to Mars would show that to be true or false.
                  Most of Jupiter's moons are bathed in radiation from Jupiter that is a couple hundred times more powerful than solar radiation.
                  Maybe there is life deep under ground, on a moon or two. Who knows?

                  We talk about going to Mars and living there. But everything there is trying to kill us. There is no magnetic field, the soil is toxic, and radiation will kill us. Why go, if we have to spend our shortened lived in an insulated hut?

                  There are caves. Maybe we could live there. But why? We have caves here. And no matter how bad it gets here, it's not as bad as Mars is, on its best day.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576389].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Reddevil007
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    Shared characteristics of all apes, gorillas, and humans. That.

                    What are the odds that another life form, on another planet, has bones...and they are the same number as we have...and all mammals have.(some may be remnants, as in whales). Muscles, nerves, digestion...all mammals share almost all of that.

                    My guess is that it wouldn't happen again on any planet in this galaxy.
                    But if we saw that, I would consider that evidence that we somehow were transplanted to that planet in the last 100,000 years.

                    Could that primate have been transported here in our past? No. Because we have a detailed fossil record of the entire evolutionary path we took. We evolved here, from the time we could reproduce as bugs....we evolved here.

                    A possible exception is Cephalopods. They are so different, they may have broken away from any other life form before the Permian extinction.

                    I suppose if someone wanted to argue that life came from another planet to evolve here....that's where I would look.



                    Most of Jupiter's moons are bathed in radiation from Jupiter that is a couple hundred times more powerful than solar radiation.
                    Maybe there is life deep under ground, on a moon or two. Who knows?

                    We talk about going to Mars and living there. But everything there is trying to kill us. There is no magnetic field, the soil is toxic, and radiation will kill us. Why go, if we have to spend our shortened lived in an insulated hut?

                    There are caves. Maybe we could live there. But why? We have caves here. And no matter how bad it gets here, it's not as bad as Mars is, on its best day.
                    Let's see if Elon Musk can prove us all wrong!
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576494].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    A possible exception is Cephalopods. They are so different, they may have broken away from any other life form before the Permian extinction.

                    We talk about going to Mars and living there. But everything there is trying to kill us. There is no magnetic field, the soil is toxic, and radiation will kill us. Why go, if we have to spend our shortened lived in an insulated hut?

                    There are caves. Maybe we could live there. But why? We have caves here. And no matter how bad it gets here, it's not as bad as Mars is, on its best day.
                    https://www.space.dtu.dk/english/Res...magnetic_field

                    These measurements showed the existence of powerful magnetic crustal fields on the planet's surface, far more powerful than those found on Earth.
                    https://mars.nasa.gov/news/453/scien...uid-iron-core/

                    So Mars has stronger magnetic fields than we do in the right areas, as well as a molten core, which means it has an overall field, not as strong as ours but still there.

                    So land in the right area, and no sunburn, etc.

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576542].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    My thought which is not proof is that primates did not evolve without the direct manipulation from an off planet civilization.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576331].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

      My thought which is not proof is that primates did not evolve without the direct manipulation from an off planet civilization.
      Maybe. But we have a very strong line of slow evolutionary changes, supported by fossil records, that took us from Lucy to us.

      If an ape, (or relative of any primate) was changed to have a huge brain, it seems like the change would have made all these other skulls of transition stages of evolution .........unnecessary.

      I have to admit that the evolutionary need for the brain power we have (except for Riffle) seems like much more than enough to survive.

      I will go as far as saying that it's possible that some life evolved on Mars, and as it became uninhabitable, it was moved here...Who knows?

      But our extensive fossil records, covering pretty much every twig of our family tree (back to when we had gills), makes that seem unlikely.

      And Mars became a dead rock far before any life beyond single celled organisms came to be. Mars is far older than the Earth.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576341].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Maybe. But we have a very strong line of slow evolutionary changes, supported by fossil records, that took us from Lucy to us.

        If an ape, (or relative of any primate) was changed to have a huge brain, it seems like the change would have made all these other skulls of transition stages of evolution .........unnecessary.

        I have to admit that the evolutionary need for the brain power we have (except for Riffle) seems like much more than enough to survive.

        I will go as far as saying that it's possible that some life evolved on Mars, and as it became uninhabitable, it was moved here...Who knows?

        But our extensive fossil records, covering pretty much every twig of our family tree (back to when we had gills), makes that seem unlikely.

        And Mars became a dead rock far before any life beyond single celled organisms came to be. Mars is far older than the Earth.
        Understood, however the evolutionary chain supported by fossil records does not mean that humans did not evolve without the direct manipulation from an off planet civilization because...

        There is no record of any kind that maps out what happened to the primate brain or if the primate brain was manipulated as it evolved.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576466].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author socialentry
      Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

      My thought which is not proof is that primates did not evolve without the direct manipulation from an off planet civilization.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11579230].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
    I think that in order for a planet to support life aside from air, water etc. It also must have an effective magnetic field to deflect the harmful stuff from it's sun. I don't know if they have found any traces on the exo-planets found but there are some in our solar system like Jupiter (massive) which would not support life but it may be protective in blocking radiation from it's moons.

    Then there is the debatable subject of what if humans went away from the Earths field for any length of time. Are we affected by it and is it a long term requirement for life. We don't know, never been far enough. Going to Mars would show that to be true or false.
    Signature

    Marriage, For The Best Arguments

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576384].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author IGotMine
    Come on, you guys.

    Everyone knows we are the ONLY life in the universe and it happened by magic!



    But seriously, y'all have too much time on your hands. Get a job or something!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576399].message }}
  • Gotta figure evry time I get my hair fixed ima part of the evolootional history of the planet.


    Where once there were amoeboid polyps ... an' where one day there will be hoomans smarter & balder than Claude ... rn you got my month by month personal stylin' as a metaphor for progressive transformation.


    Even regulah visitors here who chew their own toenals to save on scissors are makin' a contribyootion to the gradual evolootion of peoplekind.
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11576544].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    One day when my Wild Turkey bottle is empty I will figure it all out and let you guys know.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11579187].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author George441
    That's coming from Aliens!!!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11585706].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    Sure, I watched it.
    Ok, to stay congruent, DNA in Mammoths 10,000 years old, in the ice, have a good change of being reainmated in the near future or soon

    So 10k and it survives, now imaging a microbe or virus being kept at the right temp, etc for 24 years, or frozen if not, then it reenters a possible earth like world and soft lands or is dispensed in the air above the ground.

    Kurt is right, and l thanked both of you to keep the peace, lol.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11585965].message }}
Avatar of Unregistered

Trending Topics