[Jeffery]

The "only" so called "evidence" is state-owned media sourced from China. Personally, I always question any * intent of the state-owned media out of China.


In times like this "Consider the Source" aka * Due Diligence in terms of "Voluntary Investigations."


* Connotations of Digital Business.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by myob

Experts are suggesting that it’s not necessary to wear a face mask to protect yourself from getting sick.The virus is spread primarily through physical contact of infected surfaces or objects, not inhalation.

For example, if someone with the virus sneezes or coughs on you, it may leave respiratory droplets on your skin or clothing, or you touch someone who has the virus on their skin or clothing.

You are most likely to transmit the virus from your hands to entry points such as your mouth, nose, or eyes without even realizing it.

In times like this there is only one expert.. You!

In other words..

Don't expect too much from experts, the less you expect, the less disappointed you will be when they let you down.

In other words..

You are the expert that makes the decisions that determine your own destiny.

In other words..

Your decisions determine the destiny of you and in cases of family.. your own.


Side note: Not to mean that precautions should not be warranted when considering the well-being of others around you.

[kenmichaels]

Cardiac injury among Covid-19 patients tied to higher risk of death

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/oth...cid=spartanntp

"The data also revealed that the death rate was higher among patients with cardiac injury versus those without: 42 of the patients with cardiac injury, or 51.2%, died versus 15 of those without, or 4.5%.
"We know that cardiac damage is a marker for more mortality," Michos said. "This study clearly showed that even after you account for age and pre-existing cardiovascular disease, there was a still four-fold increased risk of dying. That's really important.""

Cardiac injury...like what happens to people who smoke and I presume vape?

I spent my life learning something that's useless right now. I wish I knew more
of the science of whats happening so I could feel effective.

Sitting on my ass doing nothing...productive towards the problem isn't how I'm wired.



---

Hey Claude - turns out we were both wrong about washing your hands for the virus.

SOAP (actually really well lathered soap) does kill the virus. I lost the link to show you
the article. But the 2 cent version is that any soap (latherd well thats the key) breaks up the fatty deposits in the virus and when that happens the virus ruptures ...literally spilling the guts out of it's carcass.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Cardiac injury among Covid-19 patients tied to higher risk of death

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/oth...cid=spartanntp

Cardiac injury...like what happens to people who smoke and I presume vape?

I spent my life learning something that's useless right now. I wish I knew more of the science of whats happening so I could feel effective.

Sitting on my ass doing nothing...productive towards the problem isn't how I'm wired.

No, I don't think so because you are a better person for it today and at times like this the world needs people like you.

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

---

Hey Claude - turns out we were both wrong about washing your hands for the virus.

SOAP (actually really well lathered soap) does kill the virus. I lost the link to show you the article. But the 2 cent version is that any soap (latherd well thats the key) breaks up the fatty deposits in the virus and when that happens the virus ruptures ...literally spilling the guts out of it's carcass.

I use "lye soap" because it is the strongest soap I know of. My wife hates it. She actually refused to use it. So I gave all of her soap away and replaced it with lye soap. I may have to sleep on the proverbial couch for a while, but hey.. she'll thank me for it later.

[myob]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

In times like this there is only one expert.. You!

In other words..

Don't expect too much from experts, the less you expect, the less disappointed you will be when they let you down.

In other words..

You are the expert that makes the decisions that determine your own destiny.

In other words..

Your decisions determine the destiny of you and in cases of family.. your own.


Side note: Not to mean that precautions should not be warranted when considering the well-being of others around you.

In times like this your decisions need to be based on vetted and validated information. I don't give the label "expert" to anyone lightly. There are of course myriads of self-described "experts" that are flooding the internet with false and misleading information. Due diligence needs to be tempered with the source.

The coronovirus has evolved, and is similar to SARS (another virus which evolved from a non-pathogenic version which jumped from an animal host into humans and then evolved to its current pathogenic state). Our bodies are continually bombarded with viruses which originate through natural processes, and usually our immune systems can cope when antibodies can recognize it.

Virology is a mature science, and genome sequencing is a recognized procedure for identitfying virus structure. Scientists found that the COVID19 backbone differed substantially from those of already known coronaviruses and mostly resembled related viruses found in bats and pangolins. Chinese scientists sequenced the genome of COVID19 and made the data available to researchers worldwide.

COVID-19 coronavirus epidemic has a natural origin

[Kay King]

The outrage over the idea of 'forced DNR' is predictable - but misses a valid point in the article.


Doctors say when a Code Blue sounds for a coronavirus patient - medical personnel must first follow safety protocols and completely 'suit up' before they can approach the patient. By then, almost always, the patient is dead.


Medical personnel are stretched to the limits - that is not time spent productively.


At some point there could be NO more respirators - NO more beds or enough supplies...it has happened in other countries already. Saying 'it can't happen' or 'we won't let it happen' isn't a guarantee it won't happen.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

The thing is that if not for the DNR order, 11-12% of people who code would survive.
But because of the DNR order, if given, 0% survive because they won't even try to save the patient.

To give up on 11-12% of the population (yes I know you can't count everyone because only a certain percentage get sick and only a certain percentage code) seems like a lot of unnecessary death.

I understand the dilemma but to just give up on them and to talk openly about it like it's okay is just weird.

What if the 11% they let slide was one of our parents who had a chance to live but they cannot now because no one even tried? All the sudden 11% means more! The article was saying 2 doctors decide in advance on each case and the family doesn't have to agree.

Mark

Something for the world to seriously consider...


What if the 11% they let slide was one of the people who would have developed a cure.

[kenmichaels]

I was laughing at the stupidity - until I read

about 2 million viewers have seen his videos on YouTube and Instagram.

California man charged with coronavirus-linked fraud

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...ud/ar-BB11Io0n

The memo also said that anyone who tries to threaten people with exposure to the virus could be prosecuted under anti-terrorism laws, noting that COVID-19 meets the definition of a "biological agent."
The Justice Department announced its first civil coronavirus-related case on Sunday, saying it had closed down a website selling non-existent vaccines.

looked that up and found this...

Americans who 'purposefully expose and infect' others with coronavirus could be charged as TERRORISTS, new Justice Department memo declares

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...es/ar-BB11I7kM

...and I thought life changed after 911.

oof

[socialentry]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

In times like this there is only one expert.. You!

Nice. Does it also apply to other fields or only medicine?


I understand that anyone can be an expert epidemiologist in these trying times, but can anyone be an expert fugu chef for example? I've always dreamt of working as a fugu chef.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by socialentry

Nice. Does it also apply to other fields or only medicine?


I understand that anyone can be an expert epidemiologist in these trying times, but can anyone be an expert fugu chef for example? I've always dreamt of working as a fugu chef.

You can only educate yourself and become the best that you can be for you, your own and others.


I will not answer such an undignified question with a dignified response.

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by socialentry

but can anyone be an expert fugu chef for example? I've always dreamt of working as a fugu chef.

Trail and error brother trial and error. LOL

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by myob

In times like this your decisions need to be based on vetted and validated information. I don't give the label "expert" to anyone lightly. There are of course myriads of self-described "experts" that are flooding the internet with false and misleading information. Due diligence needs to be tempered with the source.

The coronovirus has evolved, and is similar to SARS (another virus which evolved from a non-pathogenic version which jumped from an animal host into humans and then evolved to its current pathogenic state). Our bodies are continually bombarded with viruses which originate through natural processes, and usually our immune systems can cope when antibodies can recognize it.

Virology is a mature science, and genome sequencing is a recognized procedure for identitfying virus structure. Scientists found that the COVID19 backbone differed substantially from those of already known coronaviruses and mostly resembled related viruses found in bats and pangolins. Chinese scientists sequenced the genome of COVID19 and made the data available to researchers worldwide.

COVID-19 coronavirus epidemic has a natural origin

Truer words that we can respect and take to heart.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

Truer words that we can respect and take to heart.

The same way people listing or accept the facts that agree with their belief . There are experts that will say what they agree with their views.

The biggest casualty of this be will be expert culture

This is a worldwide event only China thinks they have solved .I will listen when politians and different countries who don't agree usually. Are basically saying the same thing.

I listen to the woman in the Philippines that wants me to marry her .telling me not to go outside without a mask because the Philippines has cops on the street to keep people inside

Claude likes to use the word humans .

Humans want to compare things to what has happened in the past . And this has never gone on in the past.

World wide at the same time.

I'm listening to politicians expecting 40_50 percent infection/exposure rate in the next 2-6 months

[myob]

Originally Posted by Odahh

The biggest casualty of this be will be expert culture

Not likely. When people feel that scientists are trying to tell them what to believe, a very common reaction is to discount science or seek justification for their own internal mindset. This is true especially if this belief is tied to their identity. If something is important for your identity, you don’t want to change your mind. Do a search, and you can find "experts" to support any belief yearning in your heart. There are still "experts" saying the earth is flat.

Flat Earth Supporters Now Plan An Antarctica Expedition To The Edge Of The World

Ignoring science over couch-potato "experts" is often merely amusing, but sometimes it can be life-threatening. For example, the US has now surpassed Italy and China to become the leader in confirmed cases of COVID19. Much of this can be attributed to better testing, but also is largely due to the wide distrust in science and disregarding simple preventative measures.

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by myob

the US has now surpassed Italy and China to become the leader in confirmed cases of COVID19. Much of this can be attributed to the wide distrust in science and disregarding simple preventative measures.

This is a bit misleading. The United States is the 3rd largest country in the world with a population of 330,000,000 people. Because in no way have we isolated this by state or otherwise, at this time the United States is / was the greatest petri dish this Virus has had an opportunity to swim in. There is no explaining Italy - and then there is China.

Speculation beyond my own is suggesting now that China has opened the doors to the initially isolated 60 Million ( 45 Million could be argued ) to its entire 1.7 Billion population as of Wednesday. So 2 to 14 days and we will see if that was a REALLY bad choice.

The number 2 most populous country in the world happens to be India with 1.3 Billion, and as of yesterday "They" as in all 1.3 Billion have been placed on lockdown.

The greatest occurring pattern of thought process as it pertains to the Coronavirus is comparison by country or cases. The variable of time has not played out here. Time will tell if China acted to soon. A decision that will directly dictate the idea of America going to back to "Normal" by Easter.

Italy I think by size of population may be a worst case scenario as it plays out in countries with far greater population. Comparing "Results with a country with a population of 60 Million ( Italy ) and then suggesting that our numbers ( The USA ) are worse is simply not a logical comparison. 60 million compared to 330 Million - Yes, we will have more cases.

Comparing Chinas locked down population of 60 million to Italy makes an amount of sense... but in theory add the 2 together (China and Italy ) and multiply x3 gives you a rough estimate of what we here in the States should expect. That is an equal comparison.

[Odahh]

Savige

Anyone on record as believing the numbers China is telling the world .and believes China in any way.
has no credibility right now.

[Kay King]

As I posted earlier - the only logical way to compare #cases and #deaths in various countries is to use the cases/million citizens and the deaths/million citizens.

Go here:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


Second column from the right is cases/million - click the header of that column twice and you will see how the numbers really compare..


You can't compare 46-80 million (spain/italy/france/germany) to 327 million without adjusting for population differences. It's apples and asparagus.

[myob]

Originally Posted by savidge4

This is a bit misleading. The United States is the 3rd largest country in the world with a population of 330,000,000 people. ...

As measured by percentage of population, Luxembourg tops the list at 2,321 cases per million. But the US (at 257 per million and rising) has the most actual cases and far more resources are being devoured for COVID19 medical care than any other country in the world.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by myob

As measured by percentage of population, Luxembourg tops the list at 2,321 cases per million. But the US (at 253 per million) has the most actual cases (currently at 83,672) and far more resources are being devoured for COVID19 medical care than any other country in the world.

Am I being a complete a hole . With my view of stop comparing or drop trying to feel safe .or what every people are trying to do blabbing on.

The US has 81,000 confirmed cases and 1100 deaths.

Do the math and find the numeric comoarison

The quote I just heard from fausi (I am assuming you know who fausi is)
this is a brand new virus you can't not compare it to others

[Kay King]

I think you mean Dr. Fauci?



Not sure why it's worth arguing...it is what it is. Having 'more cases' means we use more resources - but it doesn't mean the US is hardest hit. Having more population means we have more resources to begin with.

[Jeffery]

Pro aris et focis.

[myob]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Having 'more cases' means we use more resources - but it doesn't mean the US is hardest hit. Having more population means we have more resources to begin with.

Agreed. Certainly for many countries such as Italy, Spain, France, and smaller countries, the percentage of affected population and death rates are far more devastating.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by myob

Agreed. Certainly for many countries such as Italy, Spain, France, and smaller countries, the percentage of affected population and death rates are far more devastating.

China has a much bigger than the US .and China is expelling forien media who don agree with them an making any local disagreeing with them dissapear.

Do you think that this thing hitting the entire world. Was only contained to one part of China .

So tell me you think China a country with 1.3 billion people .contained it in a small part of China whole it is everywhere else in the world.

Tell me you believe what China is telling the wirld

[tagiscom]

https://www.news.com.au/national/cor...2f50b7d17d2a1c

This was used effectively in the 1918 Spanish flu, and can be implemented now, by a real expert!

[myob]

Originally Posted by Odahh

Tell me you believe what China is telling the wirld

Of course, we can't know for sure, but according to reports coming out of Hong Kong the Chinese government has taken draconian measures and crackdowns far beyond what any other country may be willing to do, except to a lesser extent India and the Philippines.

Their citizens have been on forced lockdowns for a month or more and transport between major population hubs has been limited or halted altogether. Anyone arriving from another country must undergo a 14 day quarantine.

Also, China has begun to send medical assistance teams and supplies to countries heavily affected by the pandemic including Italy, Spain, and France.

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by Odahh

Do you think that this thing hitting the entire world. Was only contained to one part of China.

YES I do.. and that is why I am suggesting the next number of days will be a very clear indicator of that.

I personally have contact with people that were locked up in Hubei Province. In the last day or so ALL of the ones I know have gone back to where they work IE Shanghai Shenzhen etc.

I personally believe that China is obviously manipulating the numbers. I personally believe that China is setting up the blame for the 2nd wave on foreign people coming into China... playing this out to the point that they have now closed their borders from foreigners coming in.

There are basically 2 ways for this illness to play itself out. you can do nothing ( I think Italy is an example of this ) and simply get as many people sick on the get go and be done with it. OR you can do the whole lockdown social distancing thing and decrease a single impact and prolong that impact over time. Hebei being an example of locking down a centralized hotspot of the sickness and letting the ebb of the disease to take place.

There is without doubt people in the Hubei Province that are sick and capable of transmitting the disease. China simply did not keep them contained long enough. For the sake of the economy China has decided to place everyone back to work. I believe without question there will not only be an uptick in cases in China... but a spike across the 1.7 Billion people of China.

If your into Chinese culture at all you will understand they may have let the Ya Zi Dragon out. ( One of the nine sons of Dragon ) For those of you not familiar, this is the Dragon that is often carved on Sword sheaths and these Dragons are described as "liking to kill".

REGARDLESS of truth in reporting, the veracity and scope of Coronavirus is being twisted and manipulated by each and every Government world wide. Sure China is the bad guy... I get it.. but my own Governor reporting 1500 tests have been completed and the official count is showing 1000 3 days later? Just as bad.

As each day passes I care less and less about what is happening "Out There" and more and more with what is happening within my circle of influence. My Child, My Wife, Her family, My Family, My neighbors, My employees - People I have the ability to impact. Compassion to fellow humans at a scale I am able to stay on top of.

When this is all said and done... Who will look at you and KNOW you were there for them? THAT is what is important right now - Important to me anyways LOL

[Jeffery]

Manila Philippines 4,500 foreigners thrown out by hotels due to Luzon quarantine March 25, 2020

Excerpts:

MANILA, Philippines — Some 4,500 foreign tourists were “kicked out” of hotels and ended up sleeping in the open since the government declared a Luzon-wide lockdown last week and restricted all travels due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

“Met EU CDA (Charge d’Affaires) Thomas Wiersing who delivered the bad news that foreign tourists are sleeping in open air w/o shelter or roof over their heads because their hotels kicked [them] out once their bookings end, even if they fail to book domestic flights out,” Locsin tweeted.

The secretary said DOT’s regional offices are in “constant coordination” with local government units and embassies in the Philippines to address the foreign tourists’ plight. “Rest assured, we will be helping all stranded tourists find temporary accommodation until they are able to find outgoing flights back to their countries,” she said. INQ

In a nutshell the estimated 4,500 foreigners ejected from Manila hotels were forced to sleep on the streets unless said foreigners could find other arrangements. Unfortunately, for many that was not possible due to the Government order to not accommodate new guests effective 17 March 2020 and as a result many of the ejected guests slept in a park for two days.


My son lives in Manila and contacted his church to see if he could be of assistance. The church official said they were already assisting the foreigners and did not want to expose people unnecessarily, so to stay at home.

[socialentry]

Originally Posted by savidge4

Population numbers 126 million vs South Koreas 52 million suggests that South Korea is well into the 1% of population area and Japan appears to be at .0002% ( wow ) in terms of percentage of population tested. Japan and its prideful culture are very much relying on if they are not tested they are not counted - For a sense of National Pride ( this would be my personal understanding of the culture of Japan ).

Japan, the ROK, Taiwan et al. are still big question marks --- but there's a partial qualitative answer: there doesn't seem to be overwhelmed hospitals like in Europe (and dare I say NYC? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/25/n...hospitals.html). They obviously have a lot more economic ties with the PRC then the US or Europe does (by comparison almost a million Taiwanese were working on the mainland in January for example).

It's true that no healthcare system can handle an influx of patients, but my opinion is that after the dust settles, it'll be determined that some states did much better then others, and that it was policy that was the deciding factor.

Taiwan in particular was very aggressive --- From Foreign policy magazine:https://www.economist.com/asia/2020/...h-organisation.

These measures include:

Originally Posted by Hilton Yip

Taiwan took measures early on, including inspecting plane passengers coming from Wuhan starting Dec. 31, banning Wuhan residents on Jan. 23, suspending tours to China on Jan. 25, and eventually banning all Chinese visitors on Feb. 6.

Recognizing that it had to ensure an adequate supply of medical equipment, including face masks, for health professionals and the public, Taiwan’s government stopped exports of surgical face masks on January 24 while requesting local companies to step up production. Daily production is set to reach 10 million soon, divided between the public, medical, and industrial sectors.

As a major tech powerhouse, it’s no surprise that Taiwan made use of tech tools to fight the outbreak. This includes using big data for analytics and developing platforms to inform people where masks are currently available and where infected people have been. Taiwan’s health insurance and immigration agencies integrated local and foreign residents’ 14-day travel history with their health insurance card data, allowing hospitals, clinics, and pharmacies to access that information when dealing with patients. People undergoing self-quarantine were called frequently by officials and had their phones tracked to make sure they didn’t leave their residence.

I lost the source but IIRC they also imposed heavy fines on people who hid symptoms and were later found to be covid positive. The Vice President of Taiwan is currently an epidemiologist.

So I'm inclined to say some people got it right --- or at least they were on the war footing early on. It might very well be that some countries will not succumb to corona-chan.

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by socialentry

Japan, the ROK, Taiwan et al.

I think ultimately the greatest identifier of Good vs Bad in all of this will be "Culture" Go back in time and look at photos taken in Asian countries. You will undoubtedly run across images with normal everyday citizens wearing masks. Watch a youtube channel such as "Strange Parts" and the site of citizens wearing masks is not so uncommon. Look at the Logan Paul videos while he was in Japan ( if they are even still available ) and again you see the same thing.

Even as we speak of the subject today, in the States anyone wearing a mask is an "idiot" or a "Moron". ( I am apparently both - and have been called as such in recent days ) My wife walking into the Physicians building that is directly connected to the regions primary hospital and she is the only one wearing a mask and gloves. MIND BOGGLING.

As much as I have an amount of distain for Doctors in general ( ironic coming from a guy that is a 20% owner of a medical start up LOL ) I would like the doctors / nurses present at my local medical facility to be there after this is all said and done. And having a temperature check at the door being the all ok once your inside? all I can say is wow.

outside of far eastern culture there is a stigma with wearing a face mask - and this alone may be the death of us ( Idiom intended )

[savidge4]

A video that explains the Mortgage forbearance part of the new Stimulus Package

Senate Approves $0 Mortgage | How to Stop Paying...

A link to the actual "Stimulus Package" ( https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...-CARES-ACT.pdf /////////////// ) Page 565 is the property portion.

In regards to RENTERS.. there is no specific federal regulation towards rent forbearance. About 12 minutes into the above video he kind of covers this.

[Jeffery]

How the Pandemic Will End
The Atlantic
March 25, 2020 Story by Ed Yong

Excerpt..


The U.S. may end up with the worst COVID-19 outbreak in the industrialized world. This is how it’s going to play out.
March 25, 2020 Story by Ed Yong


Three months ago, no one knew that SARS-CoV-2 existed. Now the virus has spread to almost every country, infecting at least 446,000 people whom we know about, and many more whom we do not. It has crashed economies and broken health-care systems, filled hospitals and emptied public spaces. It has separated people from their workplaces and their friends. It has disrupted modern society on a scale that most living people have never witnessed. Soon, most everyone in the United States will know someone who has been infected. Like World War II or the 9/11 attacks, this pandemic has already imprinted itself upon the nation’s psyche.

This speaks to a lot about what has been discussed in this thread.

[Bjarne Eldhuset]

Norway has been on major lockdown since march 12th. As of writing, the statistics are as follows, according to our largest newspaper:

78036 people have been tested
3669 of those had the virus
305 people are hospitalized with the virus
76 of those are in respirators

So 24,7 percent of those that are hospitalized are in respirators.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Bjarne Eldhuset

Norway has been on major lockdown since march 12th. As of writing, the statistics are as follows, according to our largest newspaper:

78036 people have been tested
3669 of those had the virus
305 people are hospitalized with the virus
76 of those are in respirators

So 24,7 percent of those that are hospitalized are in respirators.

Did they give the age and disposition demographic of those on respirators/hospitalised

[Bjarne Eldhuset]

The Institute of Public Health releases a daily report that has some statistics. Here is a link to the report for march 27th.

Of the 3581 tested to have the virus, the average age is 47. (EDIT: That is not a number for those in respirator)

[kenmichaels]

Some good news for today. 101-year-old man survives coronavirus

Lisi said his "truly extraordinary" recovery gave "hope for the future."
"Mr P made it. The family brought him home yesterday evening. To teach us that even at 101 years the future is not written," she said.


Mr. P was born in 1919, during the Spanish flu pandemic

Did you see that last line? Born during the Spanish flu, so he survived that and Covid19.

I wonder what the odds are of surviving both?

---

On a different note:

I reached out to the only two people I know in the medical field to ask them
what's the status of our local hospitals as far as Covid19.

One is a surgeon and he didn't have much time to talk. He said the four hospitals in Volusia that he's associated with are empty in preparation. He, however, was called back to the UK so he is leaving today and going to London. I did not even know that was possible right now.

The other is my x-wife's aunt who is a retired FL and GA, ER nurse.
And she told me she moved to GA when she retired a few years ago and she has also been asked to come back and help.

Both are older, he's my friend so I know he's probably an alcoholic that smokes like a chimney
and she's overweight with diabetes.

He was pretty matter of fact about things. She kept nervous laughing as she was talking.

I hope they get through this ok, but I have a sinking feeling that I won't see either one of them again.

[Kay King]

wonder what the odds are of surviving both?

Probably about the same as living to the age of 101.

[whateverpedia]

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Health Minister Matt Hancock have both tested positive for the coronavirus:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...or-coronavirus

[Kay King]

For some reason I cannot get the video or even the link to display here - but if you look for 'puppies in atlanta aquarium' you'll find a brilliant way to 'use' this crisis to accomplish something good.


Aquarium is closed so Atlanta Humane Society added puppies to be filmed exploring the aquarium ...really cute. Bonus - most humane societies are still open to some extent - those puppies probalby had homes very quickly. I would not be surprised to see this spread to other cities with closed exhibits.


There are bright spots even in the worst doom and gloom.

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by socialentry

Japan, the ROK, Taiwan et al. are still big question marks --- but there's a partial qualitative answer: there doesn't seem to be overwhelmed hospitals like in Europe (and dare I say NYC? ..

Taiwan in particular was very aggressive...

So I'm inclined to say some people got it right --- or at least they were on the war footing early on. It might very well be that some countries will not succumb to corona-chan.

Knock on wood, currently Taiwan is much safer than the US. As of today, there are 267 confirmed cases and 2 deaths. This despite the very close ties with the mainland.

If the DPP (current ruling party) is hiding something it is the scam of the century because life is pretty much normal. There are virus related travel bans, forced quarantines, etc. but the markets and stores are full, people go to work, school is in session, etc. They recently said to avoid gatherings of 100 people inside or 500 people outside but they are suggestions not the law. The local hospitals have their normal number of beds available.

Many government offices and all hospitals have limits on coming and going like temperature checks and inpatients have very limited visiting hours because they say the hospital is not somewhere you should be hanging out at for hours at a time even if to visit a sick family member or whatever.

They early on put a stop to hoarding of masks by banning the rights of companies to sell them. Now, you can buy 3 a week only. That's not enough for those in the vulnerable category, but everyone can get 3 a week. They are prosecuting people that start rumors and cause trouble. Like there were 3 ladies that caused a run on toilet paper because they announced that the wood fiber in toilet paper was the same as in the masks. That didn't last long because they shut it down. Having said that though, buying toilet paper is still an issue but the grocery stores are otherwise normal/full.

Hopefully, it lasts!

Originally Posted by savidge4

Even as we speak of the subject today, in the States anyone wearing a mask is an "idiot" or a "Moron". ( I am apparently both - and have been called as such in recent days ) My wife walking into the Physicians building that is directly connected to the regions primary hospital and she is the only one wearing a mask and gloves. MIND BOGGLING.
...
outside of far eastern culture there is a stigma with wearing a face mask - and this alone may be the death of us ( Idiom intended )

I never wore a mask in the states but it is a regular thing I do now when sick and especially the last couple of months whenever I go out.

I've had some friends tell me how unnecessary it is, wasteful, etc. No matter how much it helps or hurts or what might sneak in through the openings, it's got to be better than having zero protection. I read something today, maybe in this thread, that said if masks are useless then why do the doctors need them?

Mark

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

I never wore a mask in the states but it is a regular thing I do now when sick and especially the last couple of months whenever I go out.

I've had some friends tell me how unnecessary it is, wasteful, etc. No matter how much it helps or hurts or what might sneak in through the openings, it's got to be better than having zero protection. I read something today, maybe in this thread, that said if masks are useless then why do the doctors need them?

Mark

I say go look up the story of Li Wenliang ( The doctor that broke it to the world about Corona ) He and his staff were instructed to NOT wear gloves or masks. THIS was an exercise in supreme power in demonstrating a lesson not to buck the system. They ( the govt officials ) had a pretty good idea this was a death sentence. - in my opinion.

I have "Partners" that are on the frontline of this in ER's across a few states. I read some of their recent Facebook posts about their daily routines or an overall medical overview of what is happening. Makes a grown man cry - so powerful it might even drop an atheist to their knees and start praying - wicked strong stuff.

I believe this whole you don't need a mask thing just wash your hands has propagated from the need to have all of the recourses on the front line. And yet a portion of my business - Satellite TV and Internet install and service is a "Essential Service" as in we work, or lose our contracts to do the work.

You can bet your bottom dollar that my employees have the best equipment available to walk into peoples homes. Masks, Gloves, Face Shields, and Hazmat Suits. This sh-t is no joke and at the end of the day I started with 6 employees in that aspect of my business I will END with 6 employees. THAT is my responsibility. Anything less is my burden to bear.

I meet with these guys 2 times a day and we sit and evaluate the risk. We are operating as an ALL or nothing organization. if just ONE of the 6 says they cant do it anymore - I will drop contracts like a bad habit. The flip side of this is they know one way or another they will have a job - but they all genuinely love what they do.

Do me a favor today... call your mom... call your dad... leave a note on your mailbox for the postman... go and check on your neighbors... BE compassionate and understand in these trying times MANY of us have it real easy, and others are straight up boots on the ground in the middle of some sh-t

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Did you see that last line?

The Spanish flu? Read the first line... a "101 year old man"

He survived the great depression.. he probably stormed a beach or 2, He probably watched as a child or children went off to Korea or Vietnam. Probably watched again as Grandchildren went to Iraq or Afghanistan... undoubtedly lost his wife in here somewhere... with a life filled with events like that, Coronavirus aint sh-t Good for him I say - good for him!

[myob]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

I've had some friends tell me how unnecessary it is, wasteful, etc. No matter how much it helps or hurts or what might sneak in through the openings, it's got to be better than having zero protection. I read something today, maybe in this thread, that said if masks are useless then why do the doctors need them?
Mark

Any mask other than the N95 provides little if any protection against the virus. Wearing for example the most common surgical masks gives otherwise healthy people a false sense of protection. The recommended guidelines of social distancing (physical space at least 6 feet) and frequent washing of hands and common surfaces reduces risk more effectively than any such device.

If you're working in an essential service requiring close contact with others, you should wear a N95 mask as well as gloves and other PPE. There certainly are other non-medical masks available, but they should be used with full understanding that the protection is minimal.

Medical professionals working in close proximity to at risk patients wear not just masks, but also full PPE. The virus has a short period of airborne sustainment, and physical contact of contaminated surfaces is the most virulent. It can survive for hours or even days depending on the type of surface.

Personally, I'm not criticizing people who feel the need to wear masks if it provides more comfort. But for me and my family it would be scary to be seen especially in front of my grand children and other young children. Be safe, but try not to scare the kids.

Can wearing a face mask protect you from the new coronavirus?

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by myob

Any mask other than the N95 provides little if any protection against the virus. Wearing for example the most common surgical masks gives otherwise healthy people a false sense of protection. The recommended guidelines of social distancing (physical space at least 6 feet) and frequent washing of hands and common surfaces reduces risk more effectively than any such device.

Of course, we have to take other measures to protect ourselves and others.

There certainly are other non-medical masks available, but they should be used with full understanding that the protection is minimal.

Minimal protection > zero protection.

Personally, I'm not criticizing people who feel the need to wear masks if it provides more comfort. But for me and my family it would be scary to be seen especially in front of my grand children and other young children. Be safe, but try not to scare the kids.

Imagine how scared they would be be attending funerals or seeing people on a respirator that might could have been avoided due to the minmal protection of a mask and other protective steps.

Can wearing a face mask protect you from the new coronavirus?

Seems they talk out of both sides of their mouth. https://www.livescience.com/7661-mas...colds-flu.html A cold or flu isn't the coronavirus but this article shows that wearing a mask can be helpful.

Mark

[myob]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Imagine how scared they would be be attending funerals or seeing people on a respirator that might could have been avoided due to the minmal protection of a mask and other protective steps.

The coronavirus is 10 times more lethal than seasonal flu. Emphasis should be more on other protective steps as recommended by health professionals. Wearing just a mask is not much better than a Halloween costume

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Health Minister Matt Hancock have both tested positive for the coronavirus:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...or-coronavirus

Boris I can understand..but the Health Minister?

[savidge4]

Do face masks guard against coronavirus?
Face masks help prevent patients from spreading the virus, but they don’t protect the healthy, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say. They can help act as a barrier if a sick person coughs or sneezes. “Most face masks do not effectively filter small particles from the air and don’t prevent leakage around the edge of the mask when the user inhales,” the CDC adds.

Face masks are needed for health-care professionals. N95 masks are tighter-fitting than surgical masks and protect against small particles and large droplets, according to the CDC. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said that there are only 30 million N95 masks in the national stockpile, and “as many as 300 million masks are needed in the U.S. for health-care workers.”

If I may... obviously not all masks are created equal. N95 masks are obviously the desired mask ( which I have ) they have to be worn correctly ( I hired someone to come in and teach my staff how to properly wear one ) The next step down would be a KN95 mask. The material itself blocks the same 95% of particulates, but being a surgical type mask no they are not as efficient. However... Pay attention to the footage from China and THIS is exactly what their medical staff have been wearing - double layered I might add.

There is no question in my mind that the medical field will run out of N95 masks. I have been fortunate enough to have ties with Manufacturing in China that I was able to get an ample supply - and donated a good amount to my local fire and police depts. The Chinese govt has made it very clear that N95 masks are not to be sent to the States at this point. BUT, they are allowing the shipment of the KN95 masks. You could if desired jump onto Aliexpress right now and order 100 of them for like $8.00 and have then in about 2 weeks.

A KN95 mask does not qualify as "most masks" as stated above. The masks you might find at home depot or the auto parts store would indeed qualify as "Most Masks"

Again pay attention to images from countries that are successfully side stepping this, and you will see in mass the population wearing NOT N95 masks but the surgical masks that are being suggested as not of use. VISUAL evidence not to mention the numbers of sick in these countries is suggesting other wise.

Testing is not the variable in this that determines containment - NOT getting it is how containment is determined - and looking at Asian countries that are successfully containing this and leading for the most part normal lives… Masks are without question the variable that is making a difference.

As hateful and twisted and manipulative as we think the Chinese Govt is right now... defying all the evidence that CLEARLY indicates masks (even surgical masks ) help and then our own Govt and the CDC saying only doctors need them - and that is because there are only so many to go around is as perverse, twisted and manipulating as the Chinese Govt.

The system is self serving and overall in general F---ed. They cant even begin to do whats right for the people when they are so caught on ensuring they are doing whats right for doctors... THAT is how bad this really is. In the end they will lose on both counts!

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by savidge4

The system is self serving and overall in general F---ed. They cant even begin to do whats right for the people when they are so caught on ensuring they are doing whats right for doctors... THAT is how bad this really is. In the end they will lose on both counts!

Correction.

Are Losing.

-

We knew what to do and when to do it. Inconceivably we just didn't do it.

How do I know we knew? Easy. I knew and I'm not a spook, scientist or politically connected.

I'm Mr. Joe average who reads and watches additional news sources to the typical USA ones
and I know for a fact that Homeland Security, FBI, and others have publicly stated that
they themselves pay attention to those same sources.

All of this death in the USA could have ... SHOULD have been avoided.

Since they declared the war time act, I now doubt that anyone will be held accountable

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

We knew what to do and when to do it. Inconceivably we just didn't do it.

How do I know we knew? Easy. I knew and I'm not a spook, scientist or politically connected.

I don't think it was a matter of not doing... in part maybe, but I think early on it was known were it needed to be known the scale and scope this was going to turn into ( enter the report based on a computer model of this exact same scenario that was laid in the hands of the people that should be in the know in Oct. )

The supply chain on any and every essential supply be it ventilators or masks or what ever else is and was never going to be at the scale needed to put these items in the hands of those that need them - let alone to every man woman or child in this country.

Think about that for a moment - the literal "Ah we are f---ed" moment. unprecedented. There is simply no light at the end of that tunnel.

So how does we are screwed play out? We are watching it on a daily basis.

I feel SORRY - I feel EMAPTHY - I feel COMPASSION to the decision makers of this country. They are participating in the greatest failure in American history - of world history - at a scale I can only hope and pray is never repeated.

THIS will forever be a scare on the psyche of man kind - THIS will be a point in time that our children's children will read about in the same manor as we are reading about the Spanish flu of 1918.

This moment in time is so profound - as we are LIVING it we know how profound this will be played out as our future looks back apon this time. The world epidemic of Covid-19 2020 - ( ? ) will live in the books of history for eternity.

[myob]

This crisis actually has mobilized a spirit in America that has been dormant for nearly 50 years.

We have a massive combination of wealth, industry, and talent that has been awakened to defeat an invisible enemy. The coronovirus has awakened a slumbering giant that has filled him with a terrible resolve once again to marshall forces to eradicate this threat.

Not since the challenge to land the first man on the moon, and even before that meeting and defeating threats to our way of life have we seen the power of the human spirit unleashed.

War has been declared. There is a coming mobilization of entire industries combined to meet this challenge right now, focused on developing the infrastructure, products, systems, and methods to defeat this unprecedented global attack.

Our capacity is more than sufficient to accomplish this goal, and provide relief to other countries. Just like in previous generations, this may well become our finest hour.

But unlike previous generations, the sacrifice we have been called to make right now is mostly just to stay home.

[highhopes]

We just returned from a lengthy family holiday in New Zealand last weekend by the skin of our teeth to
the UK before lock down. There were very few cases there but since then about 400-500 now i believe?
Weird but the science community still do not know much about this virus; quoting the Euro news article;

What we don't know about the new COVID-19 coronavirus

" Despite the tsunami of information to which we are exposed every day, we still know very little about the new virus".
But say it originates probably from bats???
i wonder really about the state of this world and what really is going on?
when you understand the nature of man to not look after this planet in many ways and the harm brought to all living things?
not many people dont realise the covert programs going on today that could worsen the state of worlsd habitat, e.g. Government condusted large scale biological and chemical aerial spraying in programs like " Operation large area coverage" ,"Operation Dew", "Project 112" and many others?