Plan to turn Moon into giant telescope

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https://www.unilad.co.uk/science/nas...he-death-star/

NASA wants to place an ultra-long wavelength radio telescope on the far side of the Moon, in order to reduce Noise from Earth, and funding has been approved.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Interesting topic - but why post a link to an article by a freelance writer - rather than to the nasa and space sites? More detail on those sites.



    https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/sp...dio_telescope/


    https://www.space.com/nasa-telescope...e-of-moon.html
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    Any mention of the computer operating system? Windows or Linux?


    PS, Glad to see you posting again Tag.
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

      Any mention of the computer operating system? Windows or Linux?


      PS, Glad to see you posting again Tag.
      A new O'S called "Interplanetary Communication Unimatrix" or ICU

      ICU On The Dark Side Of The Moon
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  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
    Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

    Any mention of the computer operating system? Windows or Linux?

    PS, Glad to see you posting again Tag.
    Me too!

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  • If I were runnin' NASA, I would run with TWO telescopes.


    That way, you could figure a fully 3D image of the distant past -- a real neat trick to pull if distant worlds got dinahsaurs an' stuff.


    An' I would wanna see a real dinky crescent-shaped spa pool facility jus' below the twin scopes so anywan' workin' up there on the rig can vacay out like bein' on the beach.


    This initiative would give Luna a real neat Smiley Emoji look, an' show the Cosmos what real sweet people we all are.


    The aliens with the real fancy tech we need so bad -- cures for plagues, solootion to global warmin', telekinetic chopsticks etc -- would mebbe wanna hang out steada flyin' past.


    tbh the Death Star look ain't too good when it comes to makin' intergalactic pals.


    As for bug-eyed enemies jus'wanna trash stuff, real cheesy Smiley moon might have the same effect as garlic has on vampires, weakenin' 'em into submission with wave after wave of insufferable niceyness.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    This will shake your brain until it screams.

    Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, but Galaxies are moving away faster than the speed of light. Why? Because the space between galaxies is expanding faster than the speed of light.

    What does this mean?

    Eventually, we will not be able to see any other galaxy, because they are traveling faster away from us than their light is traveling toward us.....

    And (this is the mind blowing part) Since we are seeing very distant galaxies that are traveling away from us at faster than the speed of light...

    1) We are seeing them from millions...or billions of years ago...
    and...

    2) We are seeing them traveling backward in time. Why? Because the light we are getting from them is slower than the rate of travel away from us. And the further away from us they are, the further back in time they appear. The furthest galaxies from us (that are still visible) are the youngest.

    Of course, we can't tell the difference, but yup...we are seeing them as though they were going backward in time.

    And the telescope that will essentially be the size of our moon? It will help us see far clearer...but no further than before. And other galaxies that are really distant...will just keep looking younger and younger...until we cannot see them anymore.

    Which means...if we were on a far distant Galaxy, and could see Earth in a telescope...we would see Earth from millions or billions of years ago..traveling backward in time. The rate of reverse time travel (from our perception) would depend on the speed of the universe expanding...but it's in constant acceleration.

    Kind of mind blowing, isn't it?
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      This will shake your brain until it screams.

      Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, but Galaxies are moving away faster than the speed of light. Why? Because the space between galaxies is expanding faster than the speed of light.

      What does this mean?

      Eventually, we will not be able to see any other galaxy, because they are traveling faster away from us than their light is traveling toward us.....

      And (this is the mind blowing part) Since we are seeing very distant galaxies that are traveling away from us at faster than the speed of light...

      1) We are seeing them from millions...or billions of years ago...
      and...

      2) We are seeing them traveling backward in time. Why? Because the light we are getting from them is slower than the rate of travel away from us. And the further away from us they are, the further back in time they appear. The furthest galaxies from us (that are still visible) are the youngest.

      Of course, we can't tell the difference, but yup...we are seeing them as though they were going backward in time.

      And the telescope that will essentially be the size of our moon? It will help us see far clearer...but no further than before. And other galaxies that are really distant...will just keep looking younger and younger...until we cannot see them anymore.

      Which means...if we were on a far distant Galaxy, and could see Earth in a telescope...we would see Earth from millions or billions of years ago..traveling backward in time. The rate of reverse time travel (from our perception) would depend on the speed of the universe expanding...but it's in constant acceleration.

      Kind of mind blowing, isn't it?
      "Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, but Galaxies are moving away faster than the speed of light. Why? Because the space between galaxies is expanding faster than the speed of light."

      So, if we travel upward away from the plane of our Galaxy and it's gravitational influence so eventually we are clear of it, and between Galaxies. Will be be travelling faster than the speed of light?
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        So, if we travel upward away from the plane of our Galaxy and it's gravitational influence so eventually we are clear of it, and between Galaxies. Will be be travelling faster than the speed of light?
        As a practical matter, no. We would never be able to get far enough from our galaxy (assuming we did the impossible by traveling outside our galaxy). so that the expansion of space would cause us to travel away from Earth faster than the speed of light.

        Not all galaxies are traveling faster than the speed of light away from us, only the ones further away. And nearly all galaxies are millions of light years apart from one another.

        Remember, space itself is expanding. we can never travel faster than the speed of light within space. Space itself has to expand faster than the speed of light. And it is.

        The speed of space expansion multiplies by the distance a galaxy is away from ours.

        A galaxy twice as far away from us is traveling at twice the speed, because the greater the distance between galaxies, the faster the expansion between them.
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        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          As a practical matter, no. We would never be able to get far enough from our galaxy (assuming we did the impossible by traveling outside our galaxy). so that the expansion of space would cause us to travel away from Earth faster than the speed of light.

          Not all galaxies are traveling faster than the speed of light away from us, only the ones further away. And nearly all galaxies are millions of light years apart from one another.

          Remember, space itself is expanding. we can never travel faster than the speed of light within space. Space itself has to expand faster than the speed of light. And it is.

          The speed of space expansion multiplies by the distance a galaxy is away from ours.

          A galaxy twice as far away from us is traveling at twice the speed, because the greater the distance between galaxies, the faster the expansion between them.
          Let's say we got into a pod or spacecraft and were deposited in a space between Galaxies billions of light years from our own.

          They first said oh, nothing between the galaxies but since a force of space expanding is pushing them away from each other, is that not what we labelled dark energy or matter?

          Our pod being not made of that or whatever you want to call this force should then be seen as the same as ordinary matter, so we would be subject to this forces influence and be pushed like the Galaxies are. Just speculating.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

            They first said oh, nothing between the galaxies but since a force of space expanding is pushing them away from each other, is that not what we labelled dark energy or matter?
            The universe is expanding faster than the speed of light. No idea how much faster.

            Scientists call that accelerating force Dark Energy. But they have no idea what it is. One suggestion is that gravity is an attracter, but on an intergalactic scale, it's a repelling force. but that's just speculation.

            And Galaxies have way too much matter to explain why they move the way they do. Scientists call the producer of this extra gravity Dark Matter. But they have no idea what it is or anything about it...other than the gravity produced is far more than the matter we can observe.

            I'm not sure I understood the rest of your question.

            By the way, one galaxy, the Andromeda galaxy, is close enough to ours (in galactic terms) that the gravitational force between them and ours is greater than the force of the expanding space between the galaxies. So it will eventually merge with our galaxy. But every other galaxy is rapidly flying away from us...

            So eventually, a trillion years from now (assuming someone is still alive then) we will have no evidence that any other galaxy exists, or has ever existed. And any inhabitant on a different galaxy will see the same thing...their own galaxy...and nothing else. But eventually, all the Hydrogen used to power new stars will be used up....so as the last stars burn out...the galaxies will become invisible masses of cold dead stars and planets.

            And eventually, the expansion of space will cause molecules to expand apart, and then electrons will fly away from atoms..and the universe will become a desert of black holes and dispersed protons.....out with a whimper.

            Let's have cake.
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            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              The universe is expanding faster than the speed of light. No idea how much faster.

              Scientists call that accelerating force Dark Energy. But they have no idea what it is. One suggestion is that gravity is an attracter, but on an intergalactic scale, it's a repelling force. but that's just speculation.

              And Galaxies have way too much matter to explain why they move the way they do. Scientists call the producer of this extra gravity Dark Matter. But they have no idea what it is or anything about it...other than the gravity produced is far more than the matter we can observe.

              I'm not sure I understood the rest of your question.

              By the way, one galaxy, the Andromeda galaxy, is close enough to ours (in galactic terms) that the gravitational force between them and ours is greater than the force of the expanding space between the galaxies. So it will eventually merge with our galaxy. But every other galaxy is rapidly flying away from us...

              So eventually, a trillion years from now (assuming someone is still alive then) we will have no evidence that any other galaxy exists, or has ever existed. And any inhabitant on a different galaxy will see the same thing...their own galaxy...and nothing else. But eventually, all the Hydrogen used to power new stars will be used up....so as the last stars burn out...the galaxies will become invisible masses of cold dead stars and planets.

              And eventually, the expansion of space will cause molecules to expand apart, and then electrons will fly away from atoms..and the universe will become a desert of black holes and dispersed protons.....out with a whimper.

              Let's have cake.
              I had my cake.

              Ok, You get into a spaceship and you and your ship are miraculously transported billions of lightyears away from our own galaxy to a huge space between some other load of galaxies. They have no gravitational pull on your ship being that far away so it is in a huge void between the Galaxies.

              So all that there is to act on it is this mysterious dark energy. So, of course your ship and you are made of the same stuff as the galaxies being pushed away so essentially your ship is just another tiny "galaxy" So, will the dark energy start pusing you as the universe expands to the similar, possible faster than light speeds. .
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                So all that there is to act on it is this mysterious dark energy. So, of course your ship and you are made of the same stuff as the galaxies being pushed away so essentially your ship is just another tiny "galaxy" So, will the dark energy start pusing you as the universe expands to the similar, possible faster than light speeds. .
                All objects are moving away from each other. It isn't the same as you moving quickly. It's all relative to where you are.

                So....the results are identical, whether the space you are in is moving, or the space of the distant galaxies is moving. They are only moving faster than light... in relationship to each other. It's only because of the incalculable distances between galaxies that we see the "Faster than light" expansion of space. There is no way to measure the speed of the expanding space, except by measuring the distances between galaxies, and seeing those distances increase exponentially. with time..

                Galaxies are only moving away from, each other faster than the speed of light...relative to each other.

                Maybe a better way to say it is that galaxies are not moving away from each other at all. It's the space itself between them that is expanding. Although galaxies are also moving through space as well.

                The whole idea of "Expanding space" is a very hard concept to grasp. I'm not trying to be insulting. I mean it's also very difficult to explain.

                So...Dark Energy isn't pushing you anywhere. It's causing the space between you and everything else in space to increase. And the further you are away from that "something else' the faster the space between you expands. On a solar level (say between Earth and the Sun) the expansion of space has almost no effect. But between galaxies? Quite a lot.

                By the way, if you could make a ship that traveled at the speed of light, you could never visit another galaxy, even if you traveled forever.

                I still can't explain this "expanding space" idea to my wife so that she gets it. And she's a bright person.
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                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  All objects are moving away from each other. It isn't the same as you moving quickly. It's all relative to where you are.

                  So....the results are identical, whether the space you are in is moving, or the space of the distant galaxies is moving. They are only moving faster than light... in relationship to each other. It's only because of the incalculable distances between galaxies that we see the "Faster than light" expansion of space. There is no way to measure the speed of the expanding space, except by measuring the distances between galaxies, and seeing those distances increase exponentially. with time..

                  Galaxies are only moving away from, each other faster than the speed of light...relative to each other.

                  Maybe a better way to say it is that galaxies are not moving away from each other at all. It's the space itself between them that is expanding. Although galaxies are also moving through space as well.

                  The whole idea of "Expanding space" is a very hard concept to grasp. I'm not trying to be insulting. I mean it's also very difficult to explain.

                  So...Dark Energy isn't pushing you anywhere. It's causing the space between you and everything else in space to increase. And the further you are away from that "something else' the faster the space between you expands. On a solar level (say between Earth and the Sun) the expansion of space has almost no effect. But between galaxies? Quite a lot.

                  By the way, if you could make a ship that traveled at the speed of light, you could never visit another galaxy, even if you traveled forever.

                  I still can't explain this "expanding space" idea to my wife so that she gets it. And she's a bright person.
                  So perhaps narrowing it down to a few lines...

                  "Due to an as yet an unknown force we have labelled Dark Energy causing the expansion of the Universe, the speed of the expansion is faster than that of the speed of light. We know this to be true because we can measure the speed of which galaxies are moving away from each other."

                  "The speed of light is only a constant, applicable to light itself and all matter and energy we can see and measure."

                  Something like that.
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                  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                    So perhaps narrowing it down to a few lines...

                    "Due to an as yet an unknown force we have labelled Dark Energy causing the expansion of the Universe, the speed of the expansion is faster than that of the speed of light. We know this to be true because we can measure the speed of which galaxies are moving away from each other."

                    "The speed of light is only a constant, applicable to light itself and all matter and energy we can see and measure."

                    Something like that.
                    Agreed several experiments show that when a particle reaches light speed and is still accelerating it disappears and then reappears, or the best theory is it goes into subspace and back again.

                    Also Stephen Hawking has said in the past that some particles near a black hole exceed light speed when dispelled from the event horizon.

                    Light speed is a barrier to us, but overall not so much.

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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                    So perhaps narrowing it down to a few lines...

                    "Due to an as yet an unknown force we have labelled Dark Energy causing the expansion of the Universe, the speed of the expansion is faster than that of the speed of light. We know this to be true because we can measure the speed of which galaxies are moving away from each other."

                    "The speed of light is only a constant, applicable to light itself and all matter and energy we can see and measure."

                    Something like that.
                    Yup. Not bad.
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                • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  <snip>
                  I still can't explain this "expanding space" idea to my wife so that she gets it. And she's the brighter person.

                  Jokes aside, IMO, you explain it very well and I sorta kinds get it. You're a good teacher.


                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                  So perhaps narrowing it down to a few lines...

                  "Due to an as yet an unknown force we have labelled Dark Energy causing the expansion of the Universe, the speed of the expansion is faster than that of the speed of light. We know this to be true because we can measure the speed of which galaxies are moving away from each other."

                  "The speed of light is only a constant, applicable to light itself and all matter and energy we can see and measure."

                  Something like that.
                  Claude, Mark summed it correctly? How do you sum it up please?


                  Added later:
                  I was so busy reading this and replying that I overcooked my fish sticks a little, so don't make go Sopranos!
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                • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  All objects are moving away from each other. It isn't the same as you moving quickly. It's all relative to where you are.

                  So....the results are identical, whether the space you are in is moving, or the space of the distant galaxies is moving. They are only moving faster than light... in relationship to each other. It's only because of the incalculable distances between galaxies that we see the "Faster than light" expansion of space. There is no way to measure the speed of the expanding space, except by measuring the distances between galaxies, and seeing those distances increase exponentially. with time..

                  Galaxies are only moving away from, each other faster than the speed of light...relative to each other.

                  Maybe a better way to say it is that galaxies are not moving away from each other at all. It's the space itself between them that is expanding. Although galaxies are also moving through space as well.

                  The whole idea of "Expanding space" is a very hard concept to grasp. I'm not trying to be insulting. I mean it's also very difficult to explain.

                  So...Dark Energy isn't pushing you anywhere. It's causing the space between you and everything else in space to increase. And the further you are away from that "something else' the faster the space between you expands. On a solar level (say between Earth and the Sun) the expansion of space has almost no effect. But between galaxies? Quite a lot.

                  By the way, if you could make a ship that traveled at the speed of light, you could never visit another galaxy, even if you traveled forever.

                  I still can't explain this "expanding space" idea to my wife so that she gets it. And she's a bright person.

                  How about this analogy Claude.

                  Say you take one glass measuring cup (see through) clearly marked for two cups of water.

                  Fill precisely with only one cup of water.

                  Gently drop in an ice cube.

                  The immediate effect is the water level rises. Let's say it rises to 1-1/4. We have just increased (expanded) the space of the water inside the cup.

                  Next, the ice cube slowly starts to melt at some rate of speed (I don't know) until the ice is completely melted. Let's say it rises to 1-1/2. Again, we have just increased (expanded) the space of the water inside the cup.

                  All kinds of variables at work here. Such as the cup itself is not nor never has moved. Only the space inside the cup expanded and it makes sense it will stop expanding once the ice cube has completely melted.

                  However, since the cup is on the planet earth and the earth is moving in space that is also expanding.. the end result is there were two (and possibly more than just two) forces at work during our analogy. One being the finite expanding space within the cup and the second being the infinite (are we so sure) expanding space outside of earth proper.

                  Conclusion (I need to run to KFC):

                  With certainty we now know how to expand space within the cup.

                  With certainty there are mathematicians (we don't need a rocket scientist) that can apply the rates of expansion of the cup of water and formulate a ratio of the rate of expansion of the known expanding galaxy/universe.

                  Then we can create a paper and win the Nobel Prize.

                  Sound like a plan?

                  Added later..

                  I found some leftovers in the fridge, so no KFC run necessary today. Priorities you know.

                  After a quick Google I was able to get the data for rates of speed, ratios, etc.

                  Now all we have to do is collaborate.

                  I suggest we meet at the nearest KFC (meet yo half way). I'll bring the measuring cup and we'll get some H2O and ice at the KFC. Also, I learned that Neil deGrasse Tyson is going to be hard to contact. In the stead, I figure we can shoot a YouTube video of our proof and upload it from within the KFC. We just have to make sure or phones are fully charged.

                  It will probably take a few days for the world to acknowledge our brilliance and schedule our Nobel Prize Ceremony. Up to you, but I am going to tell my wife that eventually Men In Black will come knocking. Not to worry when they take us away. Just watch the news we'll tell em...

                  Something wonderful is going to happen.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

                    How about this analogy Claude.

                    Say you take one glass measuring cup (see through) clearly marked for two cups of water.

                    Fill precisely with only one cup of water.

                    Gently drop in an ice cube.

                    The immediate effect is the water level rises. Let's say it rises to 1-1/4. We have just increased (expanded) the space of the water inside the cup.

                    Next, the ice cube slowly starts to melt at some rate of speed (I don't know) until the ice is completely melted. Let's say it rises to 1-1/2. Again, we have just increased (expanded) the space of the water inside the cup.
                    First, I want to tell you that I really enjoyed your post.

                    But in your analogy, it's wrong.

                    You are not adding ice or water. The same amount of water is always there.....In your analogy, the measuring cup would be expanding, and the water molecules would get further apart...eventually, you might end up with a huge measuring cup full of steam or mist.

                    In the universe, the same amount of matter is always there. It doesn't increase or decrease.

                    This measurement isn't accurate at all, but it will fit this explanation.......

                    Let's say that the expansion of the space in the universe is currently expanding at one millimetre per million miles a year. Between the Sun and the Earth, too small to be seen or measured. Also, between stars, so small (although the distances are enormous) that over a year's time...not big enough to measure...

                    But between the clusters of galaxies? That minute expansion of One millimetre per million miles becomes an expansion faster than the speed of light....because of the inconceivable distances between galaxies. And the further the distance between galaxies, the faster they move apart, because the speed is dependent on the distance in space.

                    And....just 100 years ago, we thought that our galaxy was the whole universe. Then we saw (through better telescopes) that there are millions, then billions, and now trillions of other galaxies.

                    And we also assume that there are galaxies that are so far away, that we can no longer see them, because the space between them and us is expanding faster than the speed of light, and accelerating.

                    And there is no way to know how large the real universe is...only how far away the galaxies are that we can still detect.

                    And who knows what we will learn tomorrow?
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                    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      First, I want to tell you that I really enjoyed your post.

                      But in your analogy, it's wrong.

                      You are not adding ice or water. The same amount of water is always there.....In your analogy, the measuring cup would be expanding, and the water molecules would get further apart...eventually, you might end up with a huge measuring cup full of steam or mist.

                      In the universe, the same amount of matter is always there. It doesn't increase or decrease.

                      This measurement isn't accurate at all, but it will fit this explanation.......

                      Let's say that the expansion of the space in the universe is currently expanding at one millimetre per million miles a year. Between the Sun and the Earth, too small to be seen or measured. Also, between stars, so small (although the distances are enormous) that over a year's time...not big enough to measure...

                      But between the clusters of galaxies? That minute expansion of One millimetre per million miles becomes an expansion faster than the speed of light....because of the inconceivable distances between galaxies. And the further the distance between galaxies, the faster they move apart, because the speed is dependent on the distance in space.

                      And....just 100 years ago, we thought that our galaxy was the whole universe. Then we saw (through better telescopes) that there are millions, then billions, and now trillions of other galaxies.

                      And we also assume that there are galaxies that are so far away, that we can no longer see them, because the space between them and us is expanding faster than the speed of light, and accelerating.

                      And there is no way to know how large the real universe is...only how far away the galaxies are that we can still detect.

                      And who knows what we will learn tomorrow?
                      The real major flaw in Jeffery's thinking is that there are currently no KFC's to sit down in and perform the experiment. Try doing that at a pickup window and see what you get. My last lecture there on Quantum Particles was drowned out by a line of cars honking.

                      All Ted talks scheduled at KFC's have been cancelled for the foreseeable future
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                      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                        The real major flaw in Jeffery's thinking is that there are currently no KFC's to sit down in and perform the experiment. Try doing that at a pickup window and see what you get. My last lecture there on Quantum Particles was drowned out by a line of cars honking.

                        All Ted talks scheduled at KFC's have been cancelled for the foreseeable future
                        May l suggest the Krispy Kreme in Wooster.




                        This is on the corner of Cladette Avenue, and Tickle Me street.

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                    • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      First, I want to tell you that I really enjoyed your post.

                      But in your analogy, it's wrong.

                      And who knows what we will learn tomorrow?

                      Well, I guess I'll have to tell Jeri Ryan she won't get the part.
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  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
    Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

    If I were runnin' NASA, I would run with TWO telescopes.

    That way, you could figure a fully 3D image of the distant past -- a real neat trick to pull if distant worlds got dinahsaurs an' stuff.

    An' I would wanna see a real dinky crescent-shaped spa pool facility jus' below the twin scopes so anywan' workin' up there on the rig can vacay out like bein' on the beach.

    This initiative would give Luna a real neat Smiley Emoji look, an' show the Cosmos what real sweet people we all are.

    The aliens with the real fancy tech we need so bad -- cures for plagues, solootion to global warmin', telekinetic chopsticks etc -- would mebbe wanna hang out steada flyin' past.

    tbh the Death Star look ain't too good when it comes to makin' intergalactic pals.

    As for bug-eyed enemies jus'wanna trash stuff, real cheesy Smiley moon might have the same effect as garlic has on vampires, weakenin' 'em into submission with wave after wave of insufferable niceyness.
    Doesn't quite work that way Princess, or Neil Armstrong when he looked back at the earth he was looking at how the earth looked, 3.15 minutes ago, (without checking) and with their rate of speed, they were 3 seconds ahead of us by the time they got back.

    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    This will shake your brain until it screams.

    Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, but Galaxies are moving away faster than the speed of light. Why? Because the space between galaxies is expanding faster than the speed of light.

    What does this mean?

    Eventually, we will not be able to see any other galaxy, because they are traveling faster away from us than their light is traveling toward us.....

    And (this is the mind blowing part) Since we are seeing very distant galaxies that are traveling away from us at faster than the speed of light...

    1) We are seeing them from millions...or billions of years ago...
    and...

    2) We are seeing them traveling backward in time. Why? Because the light we are getting from them is slower than the rate of travel away from us. And the further away from us they are, the further back in time they appear. The furthest galaxies from us (that are still visible) are the youngest.

    Of course, we can't tell the difference, but yup...we are seeing them as though they were going backward in time.

    And the telescope that will essentially be the size of our moon? It will help us see far clearer...but no further than before. And other galaxies that are really distant...will just keep looking younger and younger...until we cannot see them anymore.

    Which means...if we were on a far distant Galaxy, and could see Earth in a telescope...we would see Earth from millions or billions of years ago..traveling backward in time. The rate of reverse time travel (from our perception) would depend on the speed of the universe expanding...but it's in constant acceleration.

    Kind of mind blowing, isn't it?
    Settle down Claude, have a donut.

    And do us all a favor and don't watch StarGate Universe.

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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

      Doesn't quite work that way Princess, or Neil Armstrong when he looked back at the earth he was looking at how the earth looked, 3.15 minutes ago, (without checking) and with their rate of speed, they were 3 seconds ahead of us by the time they got back.
      The moon is only a light second away from the Earth.

      And there was less than a billionth of a second difference in the passage of time, when Armstrong returned.


      It has nothing to do with their rate of speed, but the difference in the gravitational pull on the ship, because of the minute amount that the mass of Earth warps space-time.

      For example, if you stay at the top of a skyscraper, you move very very very very slightly faster through time. In a billion years, the difference would be about a second. Almost not measurable. The difference is the distance from the center of the planet, not the speed traveled.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    Look, I was in a rush and it took me only 7 days to create everything, so its not perfect. It's not that everything is expanding. Rather, everything is running away!
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  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    The moon is only a light second away from the Earth.

    And there was less than a billionth of a second difference in the passage of time, when Armstrong returned.

    It has nothing to do with their rate of speed, but the difference in the gravitational pull on the ship, because of the minute amount that the mass of Earth warps space-time.

    For example, if you stay at the top of a skyscraper, you move very very very very slightly faster through time. In a billion years, the difference would be about a second. Almost not measurable. The difference is the distance from the center of the planet, not the speed traveled.
    True, 1.25 light seconds away, so if we had a ship that could get to light speed instantly, we could get to the moons orbit in about one second.

    And the Apollo module was travelling at 7 miles per second, for several days, (can't find the article) so they did travel forward in time, but only by some seconds.

    So the lazer idea in COSMOS, could look back at earth, after a short while and see the Earth how it looked a month ago, so so forth.

    Have to post this again.


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  • Way I see it, the hypothetical Neil Armstrong been to the moon an' back so many times through the years, he could prolly have made it past Plooto a zillion times ovah.


    As for hypothetical Moi, a short jaunt to the bar would do.
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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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