Teach your children early...

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There's a quote I recently read:

"Teach your children early what you learned late".

Having young kids it got me wondering what would be on my list. I thought of a few, I listed below:

Having an abundance rather than scarcity mindset
Your actions have consequences, own them, it's no one elses fault
Think critically, question what you are told

Many years of life lessons on this forum, interested to hear what would be on your list?
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    I don't have children yet and I am 43 .I'm high functioning autistic and deal with rapid cycling bi polar disorder among other thing

    But mistakes can happen. I would make sure my children learn how to spell and write as early as possible. How to grow prepare and cook vegetables and greens. Everything else will be based on how badly my genetics mess the children up
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  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
    Originally Posted by Serene Carmen View Post

    There's a quote I recently read:

    "Teach your children early what you learned late".

    Having young kids it got me wondering what would be on my list. I thought of a few, I listed below:

    Having an abundance rather than scarcity mindset
    Your actions have consequences, own them, it's no one elses fault
    Think critically, question what you are told

    Many years of life lessons on this forum, interested to hear what would be on your list?
    All well and good but you would probably teach your children your life experience which is based on your upbringing, indoctrinations, prejudices etc. Not necessarily always going to be words of wisdom or impartial, good advice.

    Added, perhaps the best thing you can do is not to impose any teachings on them and simply give them the freedom to find out things for themselves.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

      All well and good but you would probably teach your children your life experience which is based on your upbringing, indoctrinations, prejudices etc. Not necessarily always going to be words of wisdom or impartial, good advice.

      Added, perhaps the best thing you can do is not to impose any teachings on them and simply give them the freedom to find out things for themselves.

      Do you have children?
      Added later; I deleted my posts after this. It dawned on me that my posts didn't add to the discussion. Sorry.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Do you have children?
        None that he knows of.
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        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          None that he knows of.
          None that will admit to being sired by him.

          FTFY.
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Do you have children?
        No, but I did have cat's.

        I am taking an outside view of this. Do you not think an observational impartial stance is not equally as valid if not possibly better than being a parent? If a parent, you would first be emotionally attached to passing on your views to your kids. Your views are ultimately related to your experiences, biases, upbringing, intelligence, dogma associations etc. hugely variable.

        Not talking about practical stuff like how to apply for this, fill out forms, things you can physically do, that you can pass on, because you have done them and that can be useful.

        Talking about trying to impose attitudes, prejudices etc. I think you know what I mean. Given that they make up a lot of your life experiences, I think it would be extremely difficult for a parent to hold off on doing.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
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          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I mean no offence, but your last post indicated strongly that you have never raised a child.

            The vast majority of a person's mental makeup was forged when they were very young. Where do you think this comes from?

            Behavior is learned. Who would you suggest teach your kid how to behave? How to interact socially? How to treat people fairly? Who knows the culture they are going to grow up in, better than their parents?

            I mean this in the nicest way possible. The post I'm replying to, and your previous post are from someone who is giving an opinion on something they know nothing about.


            My suggestion is to suggest your idea to 5 parents you know...and see the response


            And...in partial reply to this....



            Find out things for themselves? Sure. But while they are learning on their own, they need to be guided, steered away from danger, bad company, bad behaviors, socially unacceptable language and aggression.

            Yeah, if my son (as a young child) wants to learn about playing chess, or painting, I would still help guide him in useful directions.....but let him run around testing limits of behavior? No.

            We have all met those parents. And we have met those kids. They are handicapped because the kid has forged his own personality based on whims and chance.

            Poorly prepared for a world that isn't looking out for their best interests.


            Again. Ask any parent here, or any parent you know, what they think of your idea. The responses will be educational.

            But not even slightly as educational as raising a child.
            You yourself constantly say the word "Hoomons", (or something like that) and your right. There are many people out there that are pig ignorant, uneducated, hold ridiculous views and values and have no right bringing up a child and are not role models in any shape or form.

            And, I'm not remotely associating you or anyone else here as being like that. You are the exceptions.

            The right ways to bring up a child are obvious.

            You teach them humility
            You show them a little discipline if they get out of hand but not violence, actions have consequences
            You teach them to respect themselves and others
            You teach them how to behave properly
            You teach them that money does not grow on trees and not to be entitled.
            You help them with their school work and anything else that you know and can impart.
            You show them love and praise them for their achievements. etc

            You do not need to be a parent to know those things.

            What I'm saying is, what percentage of parents these days will do stuff like that, be role models and get it right? I don't hold out much hope.

            Many kids become rebellious when they hit their teenage years and strike out on their own and go and do stupid things, regardless of any good stuff you may teach them. I think that happens a lot. The best thing most parents can say is we love you and will be there for you and when they finally grow out of it, you can hope that they come back and say: "Yes, you told me so"

            All kids are individual minds and whatever you teach them, the great majority will go their own way anyway. Tis the nature of the beast. Kids will turn out to be really nice, right bustards, or somewhere in between.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
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              • Profile picture of the author Monetize
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


                And no matter how stupid they are, they can teach things to a four year old.

                It must have been awhile since you've been around a four year old
                because today's four year olds think they are smarter than you.
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                • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                  Originally Posted by Monetize View Post

                  It must have been awhile since you've been around a four year old
                  because today's four year olds think they are smarter than you.
                  Most four year olds are smarter than Claude.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Monetize
                    Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                    Most four year old are smarter then Claude.

                    I know you are kidding but I didn't mean it that way.
                    The kids that I have been around could run circles
                    around some grownups. We have a family member
                    who was around that age, I think she was three, and
                    she was concerned about her popularity on Facebook
                    and I was gobsmacked that a three year old would be
                    allowed access to any of those sites, much less have
                    the mental capacity to comprehend the meaning of
                    popularity. Children are much more advanced now
                    than they were a generation ago.
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                    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                      Originally Posted by Monetize View Post

                      I know you are kidding but I didn't mean it that way.
                      The kids that I have been around could run circles
                      around some grownups. We have a family member
                      who was around that age, I think she was three, and
                      she was concerned about her popularity on Facebook
                      and I was gobsmacked that a three year old would be
                      allowed access to any of those sites, much less have
                      the mental capacity to comprehend the meaning of
                      popularity. Children are much more advanced now
                      than they were a generation ago.
                      Children are no more or less smarter than they ever were. Many parents like to say how smart their child is but rarely the case.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Monetize
                        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                        Children are no more or less smarter than they ever were. Many parents like to say how smart their child is but rarely the case.

                        It's evolution. Little kids are more advanced than they were before.
                        Obviously a four year old has no life experience but you can carry
                        on an (almost) adult conversation with some of them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Serene Carmen
      Hi Ian

      Kids are definitely shaped by their surroundings, if parents leave them to find out things for themselves as you suggest, they will simply adopt the indoctrinations of their peers and others around them.

      I agree that we teach our children based on life experience, which is exactly the point of my question. Are there things you learned as you got older which you'd wish you'd known earlier?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Tran
    Didn't get the point yet. Can you explain more about the point "Having an abundance rather than scarcity mindset"?
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    • Profile picture of the author Serene Carmen
      Hi Tran

      The article below explains it briefly. There's many other articles which go into much more detail.

      A scarcity mindset makes us believe life is a zero sum game. For me to win someone else must lose.

      https://chopra.com/articles/10-steps...ndance-mindset
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by Serene Carmen View Post

        Hi Tran

        The article below explains it briefly. There's many other articles which go into much more detail.

        A scarcity mindset makes us believe life is a zero sum game. For me to win someone else must lose.
        Well can you Ever win if no one loses

        If you only value thing based on their scarcity and put things in terms of comparison to others and how you are doing compared to how others are doing

        People with real abundant mindsets can start with scarce resources and over time grow them exponentially. People with scarcity mindsets can start with a million dollars and then watch it shrink over time trying to conserve it because they never expect to earn more
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by Serene Carmen View Post

        Hi Tran

        The article below explains it briefly. There's many other articles which go into much more detail.

        A scarcity mindset makes us believe life is a zero sum game. For me to win someone else must lose.
        Wait that's a competition based mindset if you use the term winning or win it means at least one many thousands must lose

        If I had a child or children now as the grow older I can teach them how to use solar and wind power that is abundantly available to power their electricity needs instead of scarce and diminishing fossil fuels once batteries go from using rare earths (scarcity) to far more abundant and easily reusable materials sustainable electricity with be far cheaper than fossil fuels

        In any case mindsets can just be different and not actually in opposition to each other
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  • Profile picture of the author Brackwom
    Banned
    Yeah right, you share your experience with your children & teach a life lesson to your children which helps your children to make the right path in their struggle without any mistake.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bella zanny
    I'll basically avoid doing what my parents did with me
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  • Originally Posted by Serene Carmen View Post

    There's a quote I recently read:

    "Teach your children early what you learned late".

    Aw, bcs ima trooly torn here.


    Standin' in my one Princess shoe, I wanna take the Joan of Arc path an' scream loudah earliah.


    But if'n I pirouettin' in the othah shoe, (bcs that has to be possible, right?), I would want 'em to catch holda that same time as I caught the beam of their biddies.


    Seesaws an' roundabouts, I guess.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jamell
    Money management
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Seems most in this thread don't have kids. Probably a good thing
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Seems most in this thread don't have kids. Probably a good thing
      Just like raising children there are a lot of people who can tell you how they would kill a mounted knight if the where on foot with a pocket knife

      I help my brother with his little dog a cocker spaniel and I am pretty sure she is the one who trained us .
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Seems most in this thread don't have kids. Probably a good thing
      In my life, I've done the same thing.

      I remember the day before first grade, I thought I would need 5 notebooks, 12 pencils, some sticky note pads, and other supplies.

      I remember the day before I took my first Kung Fu lesson, thinking I knew what that would be like.

      Or listening to an unemployed guy tell me what he would do if he were rich.

      When you don't know, you don't know. But that doesn't stop us from thinking we know...before we actually know.

      This discussion reminds me of one I had with my wife's nephew, just before they had their first baby. He asked me "Do you think babies are evil?"

      At first, I thought he was joking, but he wasn't. He said "Babies are always demanding your attention, crying, not contributing anything. They throw tantrums, scream when they don't get their way.".

      He meant it. Of course, after he actually had the baby, it was a completely different story.

      He was a good Dad, a nice guy. He just had nothing to base his opinion on. Just like some here.

      I remember my Brother-in-law telling me that you had to register your hands as deadly weapons when you got a Black Belt (I assume in any martial art).

      Of course, that was nonsense, coming from a wonderful man who knew nothing about it. And he was talking to a man who did. And like here, when I told him I knew that this was nonsense, he argued.

      I have now reached the limits of what I know about anything.

      Good day to you, Madam.
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      • Profile picture of the author Monetize
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I remember the day before first grade, I thought I would need 5 notebooks, 12 pencils, some sticky note pads, and other supplies.

        Stop telling tales Mr. Whitacre.

        Sticky notes weren't even a thing back in the horse and buggy days!
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I help my brother with his little dog a cocker spaniel and I am pretty sure she is the one who trained us .
    I just read a hilarious book titled 'How to Train your Hooman' - and you aren't far off.

    As for children - I raised two sons who turned out well. All the lofty ideals I had were abandoned when #2 son came along....at that point survival takes precedence. My only guiding principle was to say 'yes' whenever possible and say 'no' only when absolutely necessary. The worst part of parenting is that by the time you know if you are doing a good job - it's too late for a do-over.

    One favorite memory my sons brought up when we were together over July 4th week was the 'cussin' woods'. At 5-6 my #1 son let loose with a curse word - then froze as he looked at me. I took him for a walk to the woods at the very back of our property. Told him he could shout out all the curse words he wanted any time he was in those woods - but the words were not allowed in our home.

    For years he and his brother would stomp out to the 'cussin' woods' when angry...and they always came back with a smile and their 'snit' forgotten. My theory was - you can't be out in nature and maintain a bad attitude for long. The long walk to and from the woods didn't hurt, either. Writing this made me realize how fortunate I was to raise children in a rural/small town area that was clean and safe.

    I don't think children are smarter today - they are more technically proficient - and tech stuff is a great babysitter...just as TV used to be. However, with TV it wasn't necessary to teach children how to protect themselves....

    In the past 40 years the childhood obesity rate has gone from just under 5% to 18%.... not exactly progress. Maybe more kids should have a long walk to some cussin' woods?
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I don't think children are smarter today - they are more technically proficient - and tech stuff is a great babysitter...just as TV used to be. However, with TV it wasn't necessary to teach children how to protect themselves....
      For the last 200,000 years (or however long there have been humans) every generation says that "kids today..." and they go on to say how kids are smarter, less disciplined, less respectful of adults, and their music is going to doom society.

      Every generation for the last 200,000 years.

      Kids are always the same growing up (other than being fatter, that's a very recent problem).

      We are the ones changing.

      When I was a kid, I remember what my parents said about "Kids today", and what my Grandparents said about "Kids today".

      And then I stared saying what my parents said, and now I'm saying what my grandparents said.

      It's us, we are the ones getting older and changing how we see the world, and how kids behave.

      Although it's only been recently that the fact that kids can absorb information so much faster than adults, has become more evident with the rapidly changing technology.
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        For the last 200,000 years (or however long there have been humans) every generation says that "kids today..." and they go on to say how kids are smarter, less disciplined, less respectful of adults, and their music is going to doom society.

        Every generation for the last 200,000 years.

        Kids are always the same growing up (other than being fatter, that's a very recent problem).

        We are the ones changing.

        When I was a kid, I remember what my parents said about "Kids today", and what my Grandparents said about "Kids today".

        And then I stared saying what my parents said, and now I'm saying what my grandparents said.

        It's us, we are the ones getting older and changing how we see the world, and how kids behave.

        Although it's only been recently that the fact that kids can absorb information so much faster than adults, has become more evident with the rapidly changing technology.
        Claude or Kay, now that you have grandkids do you say "Grandkids today" ? Or you just leave that for your kid to say about his kids ??
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

          Claude or Kay, now that you have grandkids do you say "Grandkids today" ? Or you just leave that for your kid to say about his kids ??
          Actually, truth to tell, I don't say "Kids today" or "Grandkids today".

          But I do remember what it was like thinking my parents and grandparents didn't understand reality...and I thought I possessed some sort of wisdom that escaped them. That delusion partly left me after we had my Son.

          Other delusions took longer. And still other are taking longer....even now.

          When I posted earlier that I say what my parents said, and then what my grandparents said, it was in relation to how we see the world, our place in it, our values, relationships, as we age.

          I still remember my Dad visiting me at our store. One we owned for a decade or more (at the time). He wanted to show me how to use a screwdriver.

          I said (mistakenly) "Dad. I'm 40 years old. I own a business that services vacuum cleaners. I know how to use a screwdriver". He laughed. But later I felt bad because he still saw me as his boy, he wanted to help me, and I took that away from him. I should have said "Thanks Dad" and meant it.

          Many lessons we learn too late.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Actually, truth to tell, I don't say "Kids today" or "Grandkids today".

            But I do remember what it was like thinking my parents and grandparents didn't understand reality...and I thought I possessed some sort of wisdom that escaped them. That delusion partly left me after we had my Son.

            Other delusions took longer. And still other are taking longer....even now.

            When I posted earlier that I say what my parents said, and then what my grandparents said, it was in relation to how we see the world, our place in it, our values, relationships, as we age.

            I still remember my Dad visiting me at our store. One we owned for a decade or more (at the time). He wanted to show me how to use a screwdriver.

            I said (mistakenly) "Dad. I'm 40 years old. I own a business that services vacuum cleaners. I know how to use a screwdriver". He laughed. But later I felt bad because he still saw me as his boy, he wanted to help me, and I took that away from him. I should have said "Thanks Dad" and meant it.

            Many lessons we learn too late.
            Your dad and I seem to have the same opinion of your general ability.
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    • Profile picture of the author Serene Carmen
      My only guiding principle was to say 'yes' whenever possible and say 'no' only when absolutely necessary.*
      Thats a great philosophy. I Thanks for sharing your experience Kay, it's good to have the perspective of those that have been through it!
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Key
    My bias it to look to see if the children are on medications that have a side effect of weight gain. Then it look at the parents or the single parent's eating habits. But I will be total lazy and just blame the prevalence of central aircon

    If the only running parents do is from the air conditioned suv to the house or the store . The children are probably in trouble

    Technically children with better diets with more nutrients in their food have better brain development and are smarter than children the same age with worse diets that result in nutrient deficiency. This is probably true at any time in history.
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  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
    "I said (mistakenly) "Dad. I'm 40 years old. I own a business that services vacuum cleaners. I know how to use a screwdriver". He laughed. But later I felt bad because he still saw me as his boy, he wanted to help me, and I took that away from him. I should have said "Thanks Dad" and meant it."

    It was then he noticed that your shoelaces were undone, something you never mastered. So after he changed your diaper he taught you this skill..
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

      "I said (mistakenly) "Dad. I'm 40 years old. I own a business that services vacuum cleaners. I know how to use a screwdriver". He laughed. But later I felt bad because he still saw me as his boy, he wanted to help me, and I took that away from him. I should have said "Thanks Dad" and meant it."

      It was then he noticed that your shoelaces were undone, something you never mastered. So after he changed your diaper he taught you this skill..
      Aw I think even Shane could have pulled off a better insult than that. Just think how much better Claude's own father could do.

      I wonder how Ofer when Claude was in his 20's his father would show up with a news paper with several want adds circled. Talking about a union job with pensions and benefits and retirement plans. Something with a future
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

        Aw I think even Shane could have pulled off a better insult than that. Just think how much better Claude's own father could do.

        I wonder how Ofer when Claude was in his 20's his father would show up with a news paper with several want adds circled. Talking about a union job with pensions and benefits and retirement plans. Something with a future
        Don't blame me, I just write what Kurt sends.
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        • Profile picture of the author Odahh
          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          Don't blame me, I just write what Kurt sends.
          I'm sorry to read that . My condolences.
          Thank you for your service as you get to read all his insults and spare the rest of us
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

        Aw I think even Shane could have pulled off a better insult than that. Just think how much better Claude's own father could do.

        I wonder how Ofer when Claude was in his 20's his father would show up with a news paper with several want adds circled. Talking about a union job with pensions and benefits and retirement plans. Something with a future
        When I was selling in people's homes, he always thought I was poor. Even when I showed up in a new car. Even when I told him I had employees. The same with all my uncles and grandparents.

        "When are you going to stop selling and find a job with a future?" was a common sentiment.

        I was the only salesman in the family. They just had no point of reference.

        Even after I wrote a few books, and made speeches, they thought I was just wasting time.

        It wasn't until I opened a retail store that my Dad, and then the others, decided I was a real businessperson. Why? They understood what a retail store was. It had walls, inventory, signs....it looked stable.

        And my Dad really enjoyed doing the electrical work (he was an electrician), because he thought that I had finally accomplished something. Because it was something they understood.

        I did learn early on (in my 20s) never to mention how much money I made. I don't know if my parents would have believed me, or they may have thought I was doing something illegal.

        But a retail store? That they understand. Even though they still had no idea how I generated a profit from that.

        My Dad even gave me this advice once;

        "Why don't you just take the most expensive vacuum cleaner you sell in the store, and just sell that, and nothing else? You could make more money that way" I don't remember my response, but it again showed that retail wasn't something I was going to be able to explain....

        Nor could I ever explain how selling worked, or marketing, or advertising, or speaking for money, or copywriting. Loving, giving, good people who loved me....but never had a clue how I made money.

        An extension of my business may shed more light on this.
        We used to sell ceiling fans along with vacuum cleaners. My Dad offered to install them for me. I paid him for the installation, and he often did additional electrical work for them, and would charge them directly, because he was really good at his job.

        But I would schedule him to be at their home at 9AM, and I'd tell Dad when to be there. He would always be several hours late. Calling him at home, again and again, trying to get him to show up at their home when I told them he would be there.....all to no avail. He'd show up whenever he was ready. Being six hours late wasn't unusual.

        It took me quite a while to figure out why. It's because, to him, he was showing up for me. To him, I was his boss...and it never occurred to him that not showing up on time mattered...because it was just me.

        Eventually, I would have him call the customer directly and set a time. And then he would show up on time, because they were his customer...his boss.

        But me? I was always just his kid. I once told him that I was getting paid to speak. He couldn't stop laughing. it was just such an absurd idea to him.
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  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
    "I once told him that I was getting paid to speak. He couldn't stop laughing. it was just such an absurd idea to him."

    We agree with your father

    Seems strange that "Selling" is such a difficult concept to grasp, whether owning a retail store or door to door, you say, look, I buy this stuff at wholesale prices and sell for a higher price and make a profit, and I'm good at it.

    They were just locked into the "profession" concept, regular work regular salary, some sort of stability. Social Security at the end. I hope you reminded them that unless you were high up in it you would never be that well off. Perhaps some of them were. Was your father a freelance electrician or did he work for a company most of the time. You would think he would have understood more if working for himself. Look dad, you provide a service, I provide products and service. We both give the customer a solution to their needs.

    Added: I once put up a heavy ceiling fan all by myself. One of my crowning DIY achievements.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

      . Was your father a freelance electrician or did he work for a company most of the time. .
      They knew what "selling" was. What they didn't know was how I prospected, how that worked, how I qualified, asked questions, closed, and financed the sale.

      As far as they knew, people just called me up and bought.

      My Dad worked for Ford Motor Company in Berea Ohio for his entire adult life, until he retired at about 60. He also did electrical work for contractors, wiring homes and offices. I often helped if it was during the Summer.

      He knew how to run his electrical contracting business. For two years after he retired, he mostly worked for me, with side jobs. At 63, he got sick and died.

      He charged by the hour, because that's what he was used to. At Ford, it was highly skilled union work, so he made a good living.

      When I say their didn't understand my selling, I meant they had no idea how it all worked. Think of it this way. We know what brain surgery is, right?

      If you ask anyone what brain surgery is, they can answer the question. But what a brain surgeon does is far more involved and complicated than what a layman would understand.

      Like selling, I actually cannot talk about it intelligently with anyone except maybe 3 people here, and maybe 5 others I know...all highly trained salespeople. All are mostly in the Offline marketing section.

      When I said something like " I buy this stuff at wholesale prices and sell for a higher price and make a profit, and I'm good at it." to my parents, they understood that. Just like you understand that.

      I was talking about the deeper strategies and techniques that are more complex. When I would try to explain something I did in a sales situation to my Mom or Dad, it always sounded like manipulation and trickery to them. So I just stopped explaining.
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        They knew what "selling" was. What they didn't know was how I prospected, how that worked, how I qualified, asked questions, closed, and financed the sale.

        As far as they knew, people just called me up and bought.

        My Dad worked for Ford Motor Company in Berea Ohio for his entire adult life, until he retired at about 60. He also did electrical work for contractors, wiring homes and offices. I often helped if it was during the Summer.

        He knew how to run his electrical contracting business. For two years after he retired, he mostly worked for me, with side jobs. At 63, he got sick and died.

        He charged by the hour, because that's what he was used to. At Ford, it was highly skilled union work, so he made a good living.

        When I say their didn't understand my selling, I meant they had no idea how it all worked. Think of it this way. We know what brain surgery is, right?

        If you ask anyone what brain surgery is, they can answer the question. But what a brain surgeon does is far more involved and complicated than what a layman would understand.

        Like selling, I actually cannot talk about it intelligently with anyone except maybe 3 people here, and maybe 5 others I know...all highly trained salespeople. All are mostly in the Offline marketing section.

        When I said something like " I buy this stuff at wholesale prices and sell for a higher price and make a profit, and I'm good at it." to my parents, they understood that. Just like you understand that.

        I was talking about the deeper strategies and techniques that are more complex. When I would try to explain something I did in a sales situation to my Mom or Dad, it always sounded like manipulation and trickery to them. So I just stopped explaining.
        I wonder if you had volunteered to the family the information about how much you earned each year would have eventually changed their views, after all from their perspective, money talks and will impress (although have ultimately made them a bit jealous perhaps)

        You could have pointed out that despite this form of selling/making a living, while possibly volatile, could allow you to put aside much more each year and start to invest very early on. While, their conventional model is more a paycheck to paycheck one so little could be saved each year. When you got your new car, did they ask if you paid cash?

        Also, my perception of America before coming here was that entrepreneurship was a big thing, especially compared with the UK, and none of them had the bug, ideal or any indoctrination's. I did feel that "freedom" to try when I came over, much more than the UK imparts or supports.

        So did you get the impression that your father, before he went, was eventually proud of his son's achievements?

        Yes, explaining the in's and out's of the selling process would result in glazed eyes for them.

        Rather like when I read your post's.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          I wonder if you had volunteered to the family the information about how much you earned each year would have eventually changed their views, after all from their perspective, money talks and will impress (although have ultimately made them a bit jealous perhaps)
          My extended family (on my Mom's side) are all very poor, wonderful, loving, and uneducated people. Whenever I would mention (because they asked) how well I was doing, a typical comment would be "It must be nice".

          The last time a couple of cousins visited me in my new home, As I was showing them the home, I overheard one whisper to the other "He thinks he's better than us". I didn't say anything, but that was the last time a relative was invited over, other than Steve.

          Being successful in business was never seen as a plus for any of them. It was a sign that I must be cheating people, or doing something immoral. It's a widespread worldview in my family.

          On my Dad's side, my uncle was wealthy, in real estate, but even he knew never to mention how well he was doing. We lived in a very small town made up of very poor people. It's not jealousy they would feel, but anger and distrust.


          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          What I'm gathering is that the people who know you best find it ludicrous that people pay you to speak.
          There is some truth to that.

          My expertise in selling, marketing, speaking, and training are alien to Cheryl, my Son, and my relatives. It's just not something we talk about. So it's not something they see.

          When Cheryl was with me on a few speaking engagements early on...she would sit in the audience expressionless, waiting for it to be over. It's just out of her scope of interest.

          Cheryl and I now work together all day. She sees me sell, and has seen me sell every workday for a couple decades. She still has no idea what I'm doing differently than what she's doing. So I never talk to her about it. To everyone in her family, a profit producing business is a sort of scam. It embarrasses her if anyone in her family asks me how business is. It's so far out of her (and their) comfort zone.

          One reason my Son rolls his eyes when anyone mentions a book I wrote, a speech I gave, a course they bought from me.....any of that, is mostly because he see all of that as ludicrous. Not just with me, but with any speaker, author, trainer.

          He has either inherited from me, or learned from me, much of my world view. I'm just better at hiding it.
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          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
            "And it takes me back to a moment when I realized I lived on a different planet."

            We are hoping your overlong vacation here will soon come to an end.

            So the perception was that it was a shortcut to wealth but more in the way of it being done via criminal or unethical means. Your prices may be perceived as criminal by some but all totally legal. I think you are plagued by the fact that you used to sell door to door. Pressure selling perception. I'm sure they have all experienced insurance agents or double glazing salesman in their home and see you in the same light.

            As to the indifference in your selling and prospecting skills, not surprised at all. While I like to troubleshoot computers a little I understand most people don't and just want them to work and not interested in how they work. Working for others where they do all the paperwork and administration for you and just teach you the minimum to do the work is the norm. Infrastructure is already there, you just follow the procedures.

            I recently bought a pair of super sharp nail clippers off a You-tube ad. It would have never occurred to me to look for a more effective pair (or they existed) until I saw the ad. You, in this analogy is simply the person who put up the ad.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

      "I once told him that I was getting paid to speak. He couldn't stop laughing. it was just such an absurd idea to him."
      A few times, my adult Son would suggest we would go to Las Vegas together, when I was speaking there, or training a group.

      I would have to say "No". Although we would have fun when I wasn't working, he only sees me as his Dad. And the idea that anyone would listen to what I had to say sounds ridiculous to him.

      Once, in the store, he was visiting me, and a customer came in who know I was a sales trainer (and read my books). When he found out that my Son was there, he started talking about how much I taught him.


      My Son couldn't stop rolling his eyes and make scoffing sounds....because the idea was so alien to him.

      I knew if I took him with me to Las Vegas, he would tag around with me and laugh at the people taking me seriously, and be bored to tears...until we went out in the evening. Steve is highly skilled in a few areas, and is very intelligent. None of those interests involve marketing or selling.


      You know the playful insults we say to each other? The insults I find so funny?


      There is an entire other group out there that would be shocked to hear anyone talk to me like that, or me talk to them like that. Those are my customers.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        A few times, my adult Son would suggest we would go to Las Vegas together, when I was speaking there, or training a group.

        I would have to say "No". Although we would have fun when I wasn't working, he only sees me as his Dad. And the idea that anyone would listen to what I had to say sounds ridiculous to him.

        Once, in the store, he was visiting me, and a customer came in who know I was a sales trainer (and read my books). When he found out that my Son was there, he started talking about how much I taught him.


        My Son couldn't stop rolling his eyes and make scoffing sounds....because the idea was so alien to him.

        I knew if I took him with me to Las Vegas, he would tag around with me and laugh at the people taking me seriously, and be bored to tears...until we went out in the evening. Steve is highly skilled in a few areas, and is very intelligent. None of those interests involve marketing or selling.


        You know the playful insults we say to each other? The insults I find so funny?


        There is an entire other group out there that would be shocked to hear anyone talk to me like that, or me talk to them like that. Those are my customers.
        What I'm gathering is that the people who know you best find it ludicrous that people pay you to speak.
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      • Profile picture of the author Monetize
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        You know the playful insults we say to each other? The insults I find so funny?

        There is an entire other group out there that would be shocked to hear anyone talk to me like that, or me talk to them like that. Those are my customers.

        Everybody who's anybody knows that you are one of
        the most highly respected members here. You let the
        rest of us talk our smack and you are always a good
        sport about it, it breaks the monotony and we all get
        a much needed laugh.

        As to your son rolling his eyes and scoffing, most of
        our adult children behave that way towards us. That
        is perfectly normal and you shouldn't take it personal,
        or feel that it's an isolated thing. Your son knows you
        are the real deal. And so does everybody else.
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I knew if I took him with me to Las Vegas, he would tag around with me and laugh at the people taking me seriously, and be bored to tears


        You know the playful insults we say to each other? The insults I find so funny?


        There is an entire other group out there that would be shocked to hear anyone talk to me like that, or me talk to them like that. Those are my customers.
        There is nothing quite as humbling as letting your friends and family put you in your place

        kidding aside I have to confess it is interesting to hear about your Life and what you have done
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  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
    Monetize and Discrat, please stop this at once. Do you know how many years some of us have spent trying to belittle, destroy and demoralize this man. Now he won't be able to get his head through the door for at least a week. He has enough trouble with that anyway.
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  • Breaking down a big problem into small, manageable chunks. If I learned this early on would have procrastinated less. And I'd like to think it would have also made me less anxious.
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    • Profile picture of the author Serene Carmen
      That's great, practical advice John. Applies to just about everything in life!
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Claude
    I get the ludicrous description. I have seen many different ways people make money. It defies explanation . If people to grasp business math . With write off and business expenses. It is way beyond their ability to understand. Forget about the marketing and sales
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Claude
      I get the ludicrous description. I have seen many different ways people make money. It defies explanation . If people to grasp business math . With write off and business expenses. It is way beyond their ability to understand. Forget about the marketing and sales
      I'm glad you brought that up, because I hear that a lot. people who don't own a profitable business (almost everyone) think of tax deductions for businesspeople differently.

      For example, a guy asked me to sponsor his softball team. I don't remember the annual cost, but I'll guess it was $500. This was decades ago.

      I said "I'm sorry, but as an advertising promotion, sponsoring local teams just doesn't create a profit for me"

      He said "But it's a tax deduction" And I said "Do you know what that means. That means it will only cost me $500".

      To him, a tax deduction was somehow a way to make money. I see in movies "What do you care, it's a tax write off!", as though that means it costs nothing.

      I've even had advertising reps and fundraisers tell me the great thing about their deal was that it was a tax write off. But that just means the money I give them isn't taxable.

      In other words, it just won't cost me more than I'm giving them. Not an incentive.

      I wasn't really directing this at you, but your post reminded me of the thought.

      And it takes me back to a moment when I realized I lived on a different planet.

      I was in a bar, and a woman sat down next to me and asked "So what do you do for a living?"

      I said "I sell vacuum cleaners"

      She said "How do you make money doing that?"

      I said "I sell them for more than I pay for them"

      And she asked "Is that legal?".

      And I am convinced that she is not the exception.
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I'm glad you brought that up,

        He said "But it's a tax deduction" And I said "Do you know what that means. That means it will only cost me $500".

        To him, a tax deduction was somehow a way to make money. I see in movies "What do you care, it's a tax write off!", as though that means it costs nothing.



        I wasn't really directing this at you, but your post reminded me of the thought.

        And it takes me back to a moment when I realized I lived on a different planet.


        And I am convinced that she is not the exception.
        Claude you are from a different planet

        But I agree with you expense incurred to generate profits for the business but you need to generate profits that the irs can tax or it is considered a hobby .

        More complex than that but I understand what you mean.
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        • Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          Claude you are from a different planet
          Let it be Krypton. Please let it be Krypton.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Let it be Krypton. Please let it be Krypton.
            I'm pretty sure it's Fartopia.
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            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

              I'm pretty sure it's Fartopia.
              Claude was always cautious and protective in keeping his true identity secret. It had its drawbacks though. He joined the local ghost-hunting club in Wooster and was keen to get out there. In his first outing the leader of the group said Claude, are you all ready to visit the Crypt Tonight...of course he said no and was asked to leave for being cowardly.
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          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Let it be Krypton. Please let it be Krypton.
            Oh so you want to be from a planet that had a race that actually destroyed their home planet with the science and advanced technology.

            And the people where made with no free will and to fill a specific role and be good little drones
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            • Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

              Oh so you want to be from a planet that had a race that actually destroyed their home planet with the science and advanced technology.

              And the people where made with no free will and to fill a specific role and be good little drones

              Well.....when you put it like that....


              Yes.
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            • Profile picture of the author Serene Carmen
              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

              Oh so you want to be from a planet that had a race that actually destroyed their home planet with the science and advanced technology.

              And the people where made with no free will and to fill a specific role and be good little drones
              Coming soon to an Earth near you!
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              • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                Originally Posted by Serene Carmen View Post

                Coming soon to an Earth near you!
                Well it depends which earth you are on.

                This earth is weird can't really predict anything anymore. We have one group seeing the lack of children being born as a problem. And another group wondering what will people do if automation replaces the need for human labor.

                What if the problems cancel each other out and the people who won't be needed are just not getting born.

                How much do you actually believe in abundance. The world we live in is full of people adapted to scarcity and lack. While the technology we have is creating abundance. And also the technology is creating more sustainable long term lifestyle that are much better the the previous throw away lifestyles
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  • Profile picture of the author Nuadazan
    I fully agree with your words and think that children must be taught these things. Critically thinking, in my opinion, is the most useful here, because it's tought to learn it when you're already grown up. I believe thath this model of questions-answers can help children to understand the cause-and-effect relationship and make their brains to work properly. I wish I would learnt it in my childhood, because it's so tought to develop such skills when you're matured. Moreover, I want to note that children also must always know the consequences of their actions. You don't need to punish them, just teach them how to be liable for the actions.
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    • Profile picture of the author Serene Carmen
      Thanks for your thoughts, I hadn't thought of it before but I like your suggestion of questions-answers! Sounds like a great way to promote exploration.
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