What If Meat Was Banned?

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In the not too distant future, the inefficient and wasteful way of providing meat produce for the population may well come to an end. Meat lovers will have to go vegge or vegan.

I was a vegge for two years quite a while back, just as an eating experiment. Meat substitutes are much better now than they were then. I would buy boxes of flavored or unflavored soy chunks (and steep them in vegetable stock) to get my fix. Or, peanut based patties for Xmas dinner.

So, I am mentally and physically prepared to do it again. Not an issue for me if required.

But how about you? What would you like to eat, how would you cope if deprived of the big juicy steak option?
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    What's the point? It wont happen any time soon in the middle of the country though California and New York might try it. I think it more likely people will stop eating meat because it's not affordable.


    WHO is going to do this ' banning'? How will they enforce it?



    I think people on the left and right coasts - and in D.C. like to talk about and write about stuff like this....gives them something to do.
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      What's the point? It wont happen any time soon in the middle of the country though California and New York might try it. I think it more likely people will stop eating meat because it's not affordable.


      WHO is going to do this ' banning'? How will they enforce it?



      I think people on the left and right coasts - and in D.C. like to talk about and write about stuff like this....gives them something to do.
      It not about the coast it people packed into cities who think food just magically appears on store shelves.

      Without animals agriculture there is no organic farming without composting plant material that will release large amounts of CO2.

      There is no need to ban it just stop subsidies to animals agriculture so farmers need to make a profit
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      What's the point? It wont happen any time soon in the middle of the country though California and New York might try it. I think it more likely people will stop eating meat because it's not affordable.


      WHO is going to do this ' banning'? How will they enforce it?



      I think people on the left and right coasts - and in D.C. like to talk about and write about stuff like this....gives them something to do.
      Your probably right "W.H.O" will probably be instrumental in doing this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    If they ban meat, what will they make animals out of?
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      If they ban meat, what will they make animals out of?
      Stop it...just....stop it.

      Animals will come from where they always came from. We plant their eggs in the ground (otherwise known as animal seeds) and they grow back as baby animals...or animal sprouts, as they are commonly known.

      It's science.
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Stop it...just....stop it.

        Animals will come from where they always came from. We plant their eggs in the ground (otherwise known as animal seeds) and they grow back as baby animals...or animal sprouts, as they are commonly known.

        It's science.
        And things that live in the lakes and oceans come from spontaneous generation and not sexual replication. Which it was fine to eat fish on day you where supposed to abstain from eating meat.

        ( I am playing along I have never found the real reason it was ok to eat fish but not meat)
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Stop it...just....stop it.

        Animals will come from where they always came from. We plant their eggs in the ground (otherwise known as animal seeds) and they grow back as baby animals...or animal sprouts, as they are commonly known.

        It's science.
        Also a true fact, in recent times, they spray the crops with accelerant drugs to make them grow faster.

        These are known as "Pharm Animals"
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        • Profile picture of the author Odahh
          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          Also a true fact, in recent times, they spray the crops with accelerant drugs to make them grow faster.

          These are known as "Pharm Animals"
          Stonehenge took 1500 years to complete and serves as a large agricultural calendar that prove very useful to agriculture based societies. And can also be in constant use for people to gather and trade goods.

          For meat to serve a role the primitive cultures had to sustainably produce meat for thousands of years in ways that preserved the environment.
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    • Natchrly, I am minded (as a responsible adult) to sidestep the Off Topic Innuendo ansa to this question.

      Gotta say tho, an absence of meat in my dinnah party recipe offerings would precipitate way fewer near death experiences for my guests.

      "*Cough* *Splutter* *Gack*," says Will. "This chicken is so badly undercooked, I wish you'd slipped me a hot zucchini."

      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      If they ban meat, what will they make animals out of?
      Let's take the supah-predatory HAMSTAH as an example of what may be possible.

      Let's call her SUSIE.

      She lives in a bedroom with Zack (who is 9yo) ... she gaht a dinky exercise wheel ... an' she would surely terrorize GAHDZILLA if'n he made waves into Zack's family bonhomie inroads.

      But how does she simultaneously provide Zack-friendly snoopsiness an' thwart kazillion mile tall reptiliankind so?

      Ansa is ... she don't wanna eat Zack.

      Most reptile brains lookin' in on this kinda scenario gonna figure ... huh, this critter may be clever an' dangerous, jus' like the supremely powerful mammal from Guardians of the Galaxy I saw when I was ripping apart the cinemas of Tokyo.

      Zack's parents toyed with the ideah of a pet lion ("because it will teach him the truth about the dog-eat-dog reality of life -- even though it is a cat"), but ultimately they favored the pet big on fluff gonna crap only 100% nuts, apple chunks, & other purely vegeterbyool intake.

      Cows pull a similah deal -- but they ain't recommended as pets for 9yos, mainly cozza the trample ishoos summa the boy cows gaht.

      Plus also, the bestsellin' cookbook from 2021 so far is Meat Will Rise Up From Nuts by Joy Throada, which endeavors to balance the whole livestock/agriculture dilemma in a sensitive an' ecologically aware kinda way that don't mean you gotta depend on meat alone for shit you can't actschwlly cook.

      Thing is, our access to the fyootyure is dependent always on change, less'n we be statues eroded by a cruel an' unworshippin' void.

      We are mebbe fortunate we don't live in times when you expected to be dead by 40.

      Where we are now delivers the problems & opportoonities we gaht.

      As they are, bcs how we are, with a view furthah down the track don't necessarily feachah us too much ... but which sumone kinda like us sumday would prolly like.

      So, yeah -- hot zucchini for Moi, plz.

      If'n it helps out the planet, I am ready to chomp sweet!
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  • Lebanese Food (HUmmos, Baba G., Falafel, freakin Tabboule, Shankleesh, Mujadara) Man, I never even knew that this food was so delicious! ITS EVEN GOOD FOR ME! Like HEALTHY! It changed the game. Heck my parents even like it! BANANAS!!
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    • Profile picture of the author OptedIn
      Originally Posted by Damon Crawley Blango View Post

      Lebanese Food (HUmmos, Baba G., Falafel, freakin Tabboule, Shankleesh, Mujadara)
      Seriously, I don't see anything remotely resembling food on that list.
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by OptedIn View Post

        Seriously, I don't see anything remotely resembling food on that list.
        Theirs a lot at Steak here.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          Theirs a lot at Steak here.
          Stop it......Just.....Stop....it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Odahh
          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          Theirs a lot at Steak here.
          After the last 2 years banning meat will only make the problems meat cause worse.

          We would make more progress by banning people who eat a lot of meat or any meat. From eating vegetables and salads and any starchy food that isn't deep fried.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    I could do it. I wouldn't like it and I'd bitch constantly, but I could do it. I've dabbled with a vegetarian diet (for health reasons, not because I think cows are cute) and have found it doable. Besides, if there's no meat, there's no meat.
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  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
    If meat where banned, then sales of free, range chickens would skyrocket, (l have watched enough survivor episodes to know how to kill and roast a chicken).

    You just kill it out of your neighbor ear range, and just tell the authorities that Henry, crossed the road by mistake.

    But even thinking that Kentucky Fried Chicken, or Red Rooster and dare l say it, Steakhouse, would be no more, nope, never happen.
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

      If meat where banned, then sales of free, range chickens would skyrocket, (l have watched enough survivor episodes to know how to kill and roast a chicken).

      You just kill it out of your neighbor ear range, and just tell the authorities that Henry, crossed the road by mistake.

      But even thinking that Kentucky Fried Chicken, or Red Rooster and dare l say it, Steakhouse, would be no more, nope, never happen.
      All animal agriculture all fish even honey.cheese milk eggs air conditioners. Refrigerators heating with anything that burns.

      They banned plastic bags here a month ago now I have to throw a bunch of paper bags in the trash when I get home from shopping. This is why people in the USA protect their guns
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

      If meat where banned, then sales of free, range chickens would skyrocket, (l have watched enough survivor episodes to know how to kill and roast a chicken).

      You just kill it out of your neighbor ear range, and just tell the authorities that Henry, crossed the road by mistake.

      But even thinking that Kentucky Fried Chicken, or Red Rooster and dare l say it, Steakhouse, would be no more, nope, never happen.
      Poultry has the least impact on the environment. Might be able to sustain chickens and so eggs.

      Beef cattle and sheep, anything that needs to graze and have land cleared away for it would have to go, IE, not be purposely bred in great numbers to eat. Around half of global warming is due to tree deforestation (lack of oxygen making) and the methane animals produce being bred in such large numbers.

      There are two complex proteins that are in meat that plants never had. The fact that we ate meat a lot meant that due to them, our bodies, stamina, strength and energy was boosted enough for us to undertake heavy lifting projects and build empires.

      These two proteins can now be synthesized and added to plant based foods.

      The one remaining thing that is promising is we can grow meat protein in the lab from animal cells. Soo, that means keeping some breeds of animals around in small numbers just to extract the cells from. At the moment, due to its small scale, it is prohibitively expensive, but they can ramp that up.

      I would miss eggs if the poultry had to go, and I would miss milk on my cereal and in tea, and added to products. Nothing beats the taste of real cows milk. I don't see too much of a problem with breeding fish and other sea-food.
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        There are two complex proteins that are in meat that plants never had. The fact that we ate meat a lot meant that due to them, our bodies, stamina, strength and energy was boosted enough for us to undertake heavy lifting projects and build empires.
        It's not really about strength. We were meat-eaters long before we thought about building empires, and a (vegetarian) gorilla can lift the weight of 30 humans.

        Throughout human history, meat has been relatively plentiful and a good source of protein. Plants contain natural defences against predators and are harder to digest. That's why plant-eating animals tend to have more complicated digestive systems (eg longer digestive tracts, multiple stomach chambers etc) in order to extract the nutrients.

        This digestion requires a lot of energy, and one theory for the advancement of human intelligence is that we started cooking our food, which alleviated much of the digestive work. This enabled the brain to grow to the extent that it now uses around 25% of the body's energy.

        Whether that's actually how it happened is still uncertain, but our digestive systems remain predominanly more suited to meat-eating, although we're technically omnivores.

        These two proteins can now be synthesized and added to plant based foods. The one remaining thing that is promising is we can grow meat protein in the lab from animal cells. Soo, that means keeping some breeds of animals around in small numbers just to extract the cells from. At the moment, due to its small scale, it is prohibitively expensive, but they can ramp that up.
        Yuk. When I read that, I started wondering if a more palatable and environmentally friendly option would be to just eat people. Then I remembered the 1973 movie Soylent Green. You know, the one where it predicts a future world (actually 2022) in which overpopulation, pollution and climate change has caused global shortages of food, water and housing. So far-fetched.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Much if the industrial agriculture production of meat will be replaced by cultured meat the cost is rapidly dropping. So there is no reason to ban meat or animal agriculture . The lab grown stuff will be cheaper and safer to handle and be good for everything boneless. These cultured meat factories can be set up in or near cities so there is no need to transport it all over the country . Or world. And can be sent directly to people's homes.

    For people willing to pay more there will be pasture raised animals that are butchered on the farms processed and sent to the consumers directly. Something that has been getting more common over the last decade.

    No real reason to ban but a lot of the most destructive environmental practices. Are directly from government policies and subsidies.
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  • Profile picture of the author Serene Carmen
    I could see them linking meat consumption to a CO2 tax somehow. Probably making it unaffordable for most.

    I'm not a fan of the untra processed fake meat alternatives.
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  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
    Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

    All animal agriculture all fish even honey.cheese milk eggs air conditioners. Refrigerators heating with anything that burns.

    They banned plastic bags here a month ago now I have to throw a bunch of paper bags in the trash when I get home from shopping. This is why people in the USA protect their guns
    Yep, same here, makes ordering a hot Turkish, Curry an experience. And when you buy fish and chips in one of those in the rain, lol, it falls to bits.

    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

    Poultry has the least impact on the environment. Might be able to sustain chickens and so eggs.

    Beef cattle and sheep, anything that needs to graze and have land cleared away for it would have to go, IE, not be purposely bred in great numbers to eat. Around half of global warming is due to tree deforestation (lack of oxygen making) and the methane animals produce being bred in such large numbers.

    There are two complex proteins that are in meat that plants never had. The fact that we ate meat a lot meant that due to them, our bodies, stamina, strength and energy was boosted enough for us to undertake heavy lifting projects and build empires.

    These two proteins can now be synthesized and added to plant based foods.

    The one remaining thing that is promising is we can grow meat protein in the lab from animal cells. Soo, that means keeping some breeds of animals around in small numbers just to extract the cells from. At the moment, due to its small scale, it is prohibitively expensive, but they can ramp that up.

    I would miss eggs if the poultry had to go, and I would miss milk on my cereal and in tea, and added to products. Nothing beats the taste of real cows milk. I don't see too much of a problem with breeding fish and other sea-food.
    Ok, you go to your environmentally friendly, Cockroach Burger Bar, and l will stay with Steakhouse, (l know the line dancing gets a bit too much but at least nothing moves on the plate).
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

      Yep, same here, makes ordering a hot Turkish, Curry an experience. And when you buy fish and chips in one of those in the rain, lol, it falls to bits.



      Ok, you go to your environmentally friendly, Cockroach Burger Bar, and l will stay with Steakhouse, (l know the line dancing gets a bit too much but at least nothing moves on the plate).
      Fortunately there will be no police left in areas that attempt to ban meat. If cops try going into homes to steal food from people . Kicking down the doors in poor neighborhoods to take food out of children's mouths

      That is what a ban means imprisonment of parents for the food they feed their children
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

        Fortunately there will be no police left in areas that attempt to ban meat. If cops try going into homes to steal food from people . Kicking down the doors in poor neighborhoods to take food out of children's mouths

        That is what a ban means imprisonment of parents for the food they feed their children
        Agreed, not really a good discussion in the present day, with squealing pigs being dragged away from troughs, and religious fervor.
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        • Profile picture of the author Odahh
          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

          Agreed, not really a good discussion in the present day, with squealing pigs being dragged away from troughs, and religious fervor.
          It will be about as helpful as recycling which felt really good who Americans could send their trash over to China to get burned buried or dumped in the ocean. Or bio fuels which releases more CO2

          In any case it will be people in cities in the developed world that will see bans the majority of the developing world especially the parts that where turned into battle fields and war zones during the war on drugs and don't have the industrial subsidized meat production system. Will tell the developed world how they should produce meat

          I'll go with the scientist and engineers develop cultured meat. And the farmers using regenerative farming methods. Over bans

          A ban that would save the planet is to restrict the amount of square footage a single person can have in living space.2,000 square feet max per person would do. Oh but that would restrict rich people climate change completely about keeping poor people poor

          While the rich get richer and fly their private jet around the world to stay in mega mansions and spend some time on their fossil fuel guzzling super yacht making sure to move money around the world to pay as little taxes as possible.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Why is it every thread about a 'social' issue ends up with the same rants about 'the rich'. So easy to point to others as 'having too much'.... TRUTH: If a rich person is not paying much in taxes, 90% of the time at least it's because they have accountants using the loopholes PROVIDED to them in the tax code. It's fixable - but those in charge don't want to fix it (and that goes for both sides). They would rather use it as an excuse to double the size of the IRS, to raise taxes, to make it an 'us vs them' argument....and the public falls for it.

    If you can afford a big house - not my business....However, if you want to pour acres of concrete for parking or recreation....that should be everyone's business due to changing the runoff and the topography. You can park 100 cars on 4 floors of 25 spaces each....or a huge footprint for 100 cars on one level. You can add solar panels to the roof of such a structure as well.

    If you want get serious about 'green stuff' - and never mention plastics...it won't work. We don't need more shiploads of plastic toys from china....or more plastic bags and plastic storage containers and disposable plastic personal items.... Yet plastics are not a target for cleaning up the earth....because there is no money in it?


    Was it deblasio who attacked plastic straws a few years ago? They may be banned in NYC (don't know) - but all the stores here carry them....
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    • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


      Was it deblasio who attacked plastic straws a few years ago? They may be banned in NYC (don't know) - but all the stores here carry them....
      Probably, they are in the process of phasing out the straws in NJ. The paper bag ban goes into effect in May 4, 2022.

      "As of Nov. 4, all New Jersey restaurants and food service establishments are banned from providing single-use plastic straws unless specifically requested by customers, according to legislation passed by Gov. Phil Murphy and other lawmakers last year"

      Source - https://www.dailyprincetonian.com/ar...ban-new-jersey
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

        Probably, they are in the process of phasing out the straws in NJ. The paper bag ban goes into effect in May 4, 2022.

        "As of Nov. 4, all New Jersey restaurants and food service establishments are banned from providing single-use plastic straws unless specifically requested by customers, according to legislation passed by Gov. Phil Murphy and other lawmakers last year"

        Source - https://www.dailyprincetonian.com/ar...ban-new-jersey
        Paper bag ban? In Canada, 0.02 percent of trees is harvested per year to make paper and packaging products. Pulp is recycled from collecting used boxes and paper, trees are re-planted. Paper products also contain other stuff. In the UK, a certain area has China clay which is used partly in making paper. Paper based products, if done right should be sustainable.
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        • Profile picture of the author Odahh
          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          Paper bag ban? In Canada, 0.02 percent of trees is harvested per year to make paper and packaging products. Pulp is recycled from collecting used boxes and paper, trees are re-planted. Paper products also contain other stuff. In the UK, a certain area has China clay which is used partly in making paper. Paper based products, if done right should be sustainable.
          Does not matter if it actually help it makes people feel like they are being forced to do something that may help.

          The amount of cardboard and trash that goes in the dumpster along the supply chain makes the banning of paper or plastic bags trivial but something the consumer feels.

          So they can feel they are suffering some inconvenience to make the world a better place.
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  • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
    Forgot to add Plastic bags to that also. They want you to use Reusable Cloth Shopping Bags, when people go shopping. They should have a recycling incentive instead of banning every thing out right.
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

      Forgot to add Plastic bags to that also. They want you to use Reusable Cloth Shopping Bags, when people go shopping. They should have a recycling incentive instead of banning every thing out right.
      Well what can not be banned out right can easily be made to work less efficiently with water saver and energy saver features that make things take three to 4 times longer and break and need replacement every 5 years.

      There is nothing that can't be made to work less effectively in the name of the environment.

      As technology progresses though even the environmental friendly items are getting much better. I just think water saving toilets will be a failure. Call them what they really are multiple flush toilets.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    How far have we really come if we still get our energy mostly from burning carbon to boil water.
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  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
    "It's not really about strength. We were meat-eaters long before we thought about building empires, and a (vegetarian) gorilla can lift the weight of 30 humans, or Claude."

    Fixed.

    It is has quite a bit to do with with physical strength in humans. These two proteins together with us eating concentrated protein in the form of meat would give us the edge in strength and stamina to build these empires. Vegetation only would require a lot more consumption and not have been so effective alone. Of course this is coupled with our increasing brain capacity, learning, even by trial and error getting handed down. Relatively early man built impossible looking structures like Stonehenge with brute force, simple tools and a little knowledge.

    Gorillas have great strength by default, but no such ambitions.
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  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
    Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

    Well what can not be banned out right can easily be made to work less efficiently with water saver and energy saver features that make things take three to 4 times longer and break and need replacement every 5 years.

    There is nothing that can't be made to work less effectively in the name of the environment.

    As technology progresses though even the environmental friendly items are getting much better. I just think water saving toilets will be a failure. Call them what they really are multiple flush toilets.
    We have an independant shopping franchise in AU, who use 100% recyclable plastic bags. They break down 100% when discarded, are a great size and convient, but the big supermarkets only push, oversized, annoying, smelly, ugly and inconvenient sizes.

    As usual when it comes to the environment, some peoples brains go with the impending doom, and we end up with crap.

    Same with paper straws, they don't work. Bamboo utensils are a good idea though.

    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    Stop it...just....stop it.

    Animals will come from where they always came from. We plant their eggs in the ground (otherwise known as animal seeds) and they grow back as baby animals...or animal sprouts, as they are commonly known.

    It's science.
    And now you talk about climate change. No surprises with the recent, senile, old men and children pushing,....um, slick presentations. Inspires us all, from the humble cleaner all the way up to a trolley collector.
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  • Profile picture of the author DURABLEOILCOM
    I love vegetables as much as the next guy but why do we need to ban meat? Do not like the idea of removing a food type which so many people enjoy, not only that alot of people make a living through the meat industry. These so called "Solutions" are asinine.

    There are so many more impactful things that could be done to fix our world and banning meat is #1 on the list?
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by DURABLEOILCOM View Post

      I love vegetables as much as the next guy but why do we need to ban meat? Do not like the idea of removing a food type which so many people enjoy, not only that alot of people make a living through the meat industry. These so called "Solutions" are asinine.

      There are so many more impactful things that could be done to fix our world and banning meat is #1 on the list?
      "Methane is the second most abundant anthropogenic GHG after carbon dioxide (CO2), accounting for about 20 percent of global emissions. Methane is more than 25 times as potent as carbon dioxide at trapping heat in the atmosphere. Over the last two centuries, methane concentrations in the atmosphere have more than doubled, largely due to human-related activities."

      Source

      https://www.epa.gov/gmi/importance-methane

      Methane is produced by animals, an excess of which we breed for consumption along with other factors. A lot of it is, or was, trapped in oceans and in the permafrost, All of which are being warmed up, thus releasing it into the atmosphere. It does not stay up so long as Co'2 but continuance in its release adds to the total effect of warming.

      Land is cleared to allow animals to graze, this means removal of trees which absorb Co'2 and create oxygen. While not the sole reason for global warming, all this adds up to a significant contribution.
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      • Profile picture of the author DURABLEOILCOM
        Why don't we outlaw the cutting down of Entire Forest and Jungles which are the lungs of the earth?

        Why don't we ban Plastic Bottles?

        Why don't we make Recycling a law in every country in the World.

        Why don't we start investing our time and effort into planting more trees, designing and building more solar panels, wind power turbines, additional hydroelectric dams which will ultimately lead to us using/depending less on fossil fuels/coal which is the main culprit NOT MEAT.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    A member here used to have a great sig line:


    "Salad is not food. Salad is what food eats"
    Signature
    Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
    ***
    One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
    what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    A negative person sees the glass as half empty. A positive person sees it half full. A realistic person adds two shots of whiskey, two ice cubes and says 'cheers'.


    Don't know who said it first - but nailed it!
    Signature
    Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
    ***
    One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
    what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    So - you proposed moving all the meat eaters to the deep South?
    Signature
    Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
    ***
    One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
    what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sammy00
    I think I will continue to live normally even without meat. I've wanted to be a vegetarian for a long time, but it's hard for me to limit myself to meat. And if it disappears, it will be easier for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author pcalvert
    A friend told me about the video below a couple of years ago. Prompted by this discussion, I just finished watching it again. It's a very good lecture.

    Signature

    "If a cat sits on a hot stove, that cat won't sit on a hot stove again.
    That cat won't sit on a cold stove either." - Mark Twain

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  • Profile picture of the author Nuadazan
    I got used to think that people must have to consume meat. Animals are specially being grown for making meat. I woder why there are some nature defenders who claim that it's illegal. Of course, it's illegal to kill those animals, whose habitat is wildlife, however if we have some farms, where animals specially are grown for making meat, why we have to refuse to consume this meat? Meat is rich with proteins, carbs and fats. It's unreplaceble food for many nations and many folks, especiallt those, who live in the north. If meat would be banned, then the humanity will start to have disease more frequently.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by Nuadazan View Post

      Meat is rich with proteins, carbs and fats.
      There are virtually no carbs in meat.
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        There are virtually no carbs in meat.
        "Claude is rich with carbs and fats."

        There, fixed it for him
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        Feel The Power Of The Mark Side

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  • Profile picture of the author terrysmith3
    In general, I rarely eat meat, although it is difficult to completely abandon it. It seems to me that there should simply be a strategy for limiting livestock production. Really livestock breeding has a bad effect on our climate.
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    • Profile picture of the author pcalvert
      Originally Posted by terrysmith3 View Post

      It seems to me that there should simply be a strategy for limiting livestock production. Really livestock breeding has a bad effect on our climate.
      That's actually a false claim. Watch the video I posted yesterday. It's quite good, and well worth watching, but if you don't have the time to watch an hour-long lecture, here's a much shorter video:

      Signature

      "If a cat sits on a hot stove, that cat won't sit on a hot stove again.
      That cat won't sit on a cold stove either." - Mark Twain

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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Been watching a few things. Synthetic pork and chicken are well along the development path and synthetic beef makes hamburger quality beef.and the cost will come down as factories are built to mass produce product.

    Now 95-90 percent of the meat distribution in the USA is handled by 4 companies. Who have intentionally cut supply of meat to raise the price and make almost 2 x as much profit.

    The ranchers to stay in business are changing their operations and more are breeding caves and raising them to full weight and finishing and processing them and selling directly to customers who are buying a whole cow a half,a quarter or an eighth. But the customers need to be within a few hundred miles of the ranch.

    A1000 plus pound cow breaks down to somewhere around 500 pounds of meat. And many ranchers have to raise their own feed with rising costs of feed.

    This is just part of what is going on now
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    We live on a smart planet that has had several hundred million years of balancing out to support life.

    So a large amount of co2 gets absorbed into the ocean. When you mix the co2 and the nitrogen run of from agriculture. There is a massive bloom of algae or seaweed. Especially in areas like the Caribbean. Which is problematic.

    But if the seaweed is gathered dried and feed to livestock the animals end up much healthier and produce less methane by at least 20 % in cows. And the manure gets composted into better organic fertilizer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    It is not that simple - that focuses on reducing methane but not on the health of the livestock. There have been some side effects such as low milk production.....


    What is interesting is you say it lowers methane by 20%....while various sites online estimate methane would be lowered by 45%, 67%, 82%. Sounds more like insufficient studies and too much optimism.



    Would it interfere with the quality of meat/milk products - would it interfere with the digestion system of the livestock? Apparently those issues haven't been considered much as yet. This would be adding a natural product but it would be 'processed' to be used as a supplement. That said, I hope studies move quickly on this because if it DOES help solve the problem without damaging the animals or the product they provide...would be a good thing.
    Signature
    Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
    ***
    One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
    what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I believe there are cattle that can no longer eat grass or forage and stay healthy. They need the grain and the soybeans.

      If so, that's likely because the grass/forage is insufficient for the size of the herd or because they are lactating cows which requires more nutrition due to high metabolism.


      I like cows - I don't want to see them 'gone'.
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
      ***
      One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
      what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        If so, that's likely because the grass/forage is insufficient for the size of the herd or because they are lactating cows which requires more nutrition due to high metabolism.


        I like cows - I don't want to see them 'gone'.
        They speak highly of you too :-)

        Of course, there are only an abundance of cows because we breed them to eat and extract milk from. Makes you wonder how they would have fared in the wild if they had never been a target for that. Would they be a protected species restricted to certain areas?
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        If so, that's likely because the grass/forage is insufficient for the size of the herd or because they are lactating cows which requires more nutrition due to high metabolism.


        I like cows - I don't want to see them 'gone'.
        It is because industrial feedlot operations breed and selected cattle that got fatter faster eating grain soybeans and other feed.

        It quite possible not every cow produces the same amount of methane and seaweed is not the only change in feed that will effect the amount of methane..

        Is it the cows or the massive feedlots feeding cattle diets that produce more gas . Than cows raised in more natural settings or pasture and ranges eating grasses.with the occasional treat of corn.

        The real meat to pay attention to is chicken it's the demand for chicken that goes up as poor countries get richer. Not every country can produce beef cattle in mass quantities.

        But chicken and pork much easier


        One of the things I remember about the Philippines is how much better the chicken and pork tasted

        My view is we can replace the industrial model of animal production with synthetic meat and leave smaller scale animal operations for customers willing to pay the price to cook meat with bone in it. Produced on operations that prove they are improving the soil and environment.

        When mass produced synthetic meat is cheaper and as available as industrial produced meat. Poorer consumer will shift to the cheaper option.

        Apparently by 2030 synthetic meats can be massive produces for less than half the cost of industrial meat. And it won't be hard to send product directly to customers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Key

    It will probably be better to supplement feed up to a point and it depends on genetics. I believe there are cattle that can no longer eat grass or forage and stay healthy. They need the grain and the soybeans.

    We can domesticate some breeds of kelp and breed the cattle that produce very low levels of methane from eating the kelp.. same with chickens and pigs.

    The processing of the seaweed is harvest screen out debris, dry , bag and ship
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    It's funny to me that those same people who so quickly point out conspiracy theories and how bad they are (election, JFK, vaccines, alien abductions, 9/11, etc.), say that getting rid of farting cows will save the earth.

    Farting cows. You believe farting cows are going to destroy us all.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      It's funny to me that those same people who so quickly point out conspiracy theories and how bad they are (election, JFK, vaccines, alien abductions, 9/11, etc.), say that getting rid of farting cows will save the earth.

      Farting cows. You believe farting cows is going to destroy us all.

      Mark
      It not the conspiracy community that is anti cow.

      It's the militant vegans .
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      It's funny to me that those same people who so quickly point out conspiracy theories and how bad they are (election, JFK, vaccines, alien abductions, 9/11, etc.), say that getting rid of farting cows will save the earth.

      Farting cows. You believe farting cows is going to destroy us all.

      Mark
      If Mass Media tells them it is, then it is, and will be til the cows come home, (sorry couldn't resist).

      The only thing about blind obedience to MSM since it supports a narrative, is sometimes it goes sour, so much so you can't hide from it.

      DDT in the early 50's, was pushed very hard by Gov, and Chemical companies, who l quote, "wanted to put it anywhere and everywhere" and if you didn't want it sprayed over your house, tough.

      It was also considered, "Very Safe" if used as per recommended. And took one brave lady to blow the whistle.

      A slick website full of HD images, and misinformation and lies, doesn't make something true, basic research shows the truth, not pigs in trough's, who are squealing.
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    The ranchers to stay in business are changing their operations and more are breeding caves and raising them to full weight and finishing and processing them and selling directly to customers

    Hey Odahh,

    I had to read this bit three times before I realised the error. At first I thought you had very clever ranchers. That's my laugh for the day.
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    Cheers, Laurence.
    Writer/Editor/Proofreader.

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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by laurencewins View Post

      The ranchers to stay in business are changing their operations and more are breeding caves and raising them to full weight and finishing and processing them and selling directly to customers

      Hey Odahh,

      I had to read this bit three timesbefore I realised the error.At first I thought you had very clever ranchers. That's my laugh for the day.
      Well you can probably better describe the process than I am. But yes ranchers clever enough to market to consumers running smaller operations.
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      • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
        The process wasn't my point. OK. I will have to spell it out for you. Below is the original statement. Below that in red is the error.

        The ranchers to stay in business are changing their operations and more are breeding caves and raising them to full weight and finishing and processing them and selling directly to customers.

        breeding caves and raising them to full weight

        After rereading the sentence, I finally guessed the word in red should be calves, not caves...because, as far as I know, you can't breed caves.

        Did you get my point now? I wasn't trying to be mean but now it seems like overkill, for which I apologise.
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        Cheers, Laurence.
        Writer/Editor/Proofreader.

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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Ok now I will laugh for a day or so. Does not beat the Xmas cards I sent out 20 years ago that I signed from Satan
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Ok now I will laugh for a day or so. Does not beat the Xmas cards I sent out 20 years ago that I signed from Satan
      You little Devil you.
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    • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Ok now I will laugh for a day or so. Does not beat the Xmas cards I sent out 20 years ago that I signed from Satan

      Wow, Satan giving away lumps of coal to all the naughty kids in the cave.
      I am so glad that there are still members that have been here for years, and have a sense of humour. I admit I have missed this a lot.
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      Writer/Editor/Proofreader.

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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by laurencewins View Post

        Wow, Satan giving away lumps of coal to all the naughty kids in the cave.
        I am so glad that there are still members that have been here for years, and have a sense of humour. I admit I have missed this a lot.
        No charcoal it it was a special offer for women who obviously ended up on Santa's naughty list.

        It less sense of humor and more the twisted way I look at the world. And what is going on now.
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        • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
          I think we are all a twisted, and this pandemic has simply increased the twistedness
          quite a bit.
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          Cheers, Laurence.
          Writer/Editor/Proofreader.

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  • Profile picture of the author nivlek2009
    Soy based mock-meat is getting more and more delicious. I don't think l would miss meat.
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