What Advice Would You Give to the 20-Year-Old YOU?

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What advice would you give to the 20-Year-Old You?

I would say keep your job and invest in an investment plan with a reputable company. The company has access to more money than you would probably ever have, thus has access to bigger and better investment opportunities that you would probably have by investing on your own.

Secondly, invest in reits and ETFs that are popular in your country.

Lastly, do a side hustle that you enjoy and use some of your salary to fund it.
Quit your job only when your side hustle exceeds your income.

------------

Do share your advice. It can clarify your own thoughts while helping others, and all good comes back to you, someway, somehow...
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  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
    Originally Posted by nivlek2009 View Post

    What advice would you give to the 20-Year-Old You?

    I would say keep your job and invest in an investment plan with a reputable company. The company has access to more money than you would probably ever have, thus has access to bigger and better investment opportunities that you would probably have by investing on your own.

    Secondly, invest in reits and ETFs that are popular in your country.

    Lastly, do a side hustle that you enjoy and use some of your salary to fund it.
    Quit your job only when your side hustle exceeds your income.

    ------------

    Do share your advice. It can clarify your own thoughts while helping others, and all good comes back to you, someway, somehow...
    In my 20's or 1985, l wouldn't have much choice, since there where no online trading options for every day traders back then.

    In house investors probably had some hard to understand Chess setup, but back then it would have been l ring my Stockbroker and put some or all on one trade then hold.

    Not sure that l could even watch the price online back then, and may have to sneak into a trading house, and stay on one of their platforms all day?

    But l would most likely go with US, stocks, since AU, are pretty much dead by comparison. So that means staying up half the night, Wall Street typically opens at 1.30 am at the moment, with my ear glued to the radio or more likely some on phone service?

    So my advise back then, ditch everything and do this.

    But if you are saying l become 20 now, then ditch everything, sign up with Stake, and learn and try, until l get it to work.

    Getting it to work, sounds easy, so probably telling my, (this is getting clumsy, l will just go with someone young now) telling someone young, that in the end you will figure it out, as long as you are fanatically determined to succeed, no matter what, then you will.

    Pretty hard to keep down a job, when you are typically up til 3am, and also hard to get ahead with 1k, so scrimp, scratch, borrow and put your life on hold for at least 5 years, is what l would suggest.

    5 years is a lot, and so is financial independence
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    If I could go back in time to talk to my 20 year old self?

    I'd tell him;
    Don't marry my first wife.

    Start setting aside money in an index fund, and don't take it out until you have enough to retire. And then don't retire, because it isn't more fun.

    I'd describe how to sell in large numbers, what to sell, and who to sell to.

    Don't marry my first wife.

    I'd describe a couple of huge business mistakes I made that drained my accounts and energy.

    Marrying my first wife was a mistake.

    What friends to avoid, and which one are worth keeping.


    Don't be a landlord. Never.

    Don't loan money for any reason. You never get paid back, and you lose a relationship with someone you care about

    Don't have employees. I'm a terrible babysitter, and having a sales staff is babysitting.

    I'd tell him about my current wife, and why it's worth waiting for her to become single again.

    Before I left, I'd remind him to stay away from my first wife.

    I'm assuming the thread is really meant to ask about investing advice. The truth is, after I have plenty, money doesn't interest me that much.

    Knowing the next 50 years (going back in time 50 years), you could become the richest person in the country, just by investing properly.

    But why would we want that? I guess I can imagine myself in a slightly bigger home. Maybe a little more money in savings. But I could never imagine myself spending more than $150,000 a year, even if I did anything I wanted.
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  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    My first retirement was at 22, after four years of US Naval service. I spent almost four years traveling North America having adventures. I would tell my younger self to REPEAT that experience.

    Now, I came out of the Navy with a big stack of money to use, mostly from saving pay and buying and selling stuff, but also with a skill which I could use anywhere I went (cooking and baking).

    I worked only for a social life, mostly in college town pizza shops or bars with grills.

    I would tell my younger self to explore, learn about people, understand their motivations and learn to apply all this.

    I'm glad I did it when I was young, had energy, time, and no obligations. I think that is a prime use of your youth, WHILE learning how to make some moolah for the future.

    GordonJ

    P.S. I would make sure he understood to study people's preoccupations, and learn how to invade and persuade what those are...it is the number one profit making secret the old me could share.


    Originally Posted by nivlek2009 View Post

    What advice would you give to the 20-Year-Old You?

    I would say keep your job and invest in an investment plan with a reputable company. The company has access to more money than you would probably ever have, thus has access to bigger and better investment opportunities that you would probably have by investing on your own.

    Secondly, invest in reits and ETFs that are popular in your country.

    Lastly, do a side hustle that you enjoy and use some of your salary to fund it.
    Quit your job only when your side hustle exceeds your income.

    ------------

    Do share your advice. It can clarify your own thoughts while helping others, and all good comes back to you, someway, somehow...
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    I very much doubt my 20-year-old me would have listened to any advice, let alone from some old git claiming to be from the future. But even if I had, I'd have just made a different set of mistakes - maybe more critical ones.

    Because mistakes come in all varieties. And I'd still be my 20-year-old me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      I very much doubt my 20-year-old me would have listened to any advice, let alone from some old git claiming to be from the future. But even if I had, I'd have just made a different set of mistakes - maybe more critical ones.

      Because mistakes come in all varieties. And I'd still be my 20-year-old me.
      Maybe a few years ago, this same question came up. I gave it more thought than I did earlier in this thread.

      If (by some miracle) I could really go back in time and talk to my 20 year old self...I wouldn't do it.

      It's not that I wouldn't listen, it's that I know I would.

      And my life would not unroll in the same way at all.

      I'm 66, reasonably wealthy, in a loving marriage, in a beautiful home, doing what I want for a living.

      Let's say I told my younger self not to marry my first wife (advice that would better my life). Then what? Who would I end up with? Where would I be living? Who would I be meeting along the way?

      A short meeting with my older self wouldn't give me a daily plan for the rest of my life. I would still make stupid...20 year old type...mistakes.

      Even if I saved myself from a few mistakes, I would make different mistakes that would steer my life in an unknown way.

      I could die in any number of accidents, become an alcoholic, a drug addict, a homeless person. If I walked into the wrong bar, started the wrong argument, made the wrong friends...it would be much worse than it was.

      How would I guarantee that I would eventually meet and marry my current wife? I couldn't. A smart ass remark on the first date could end it all. Seeing her a week earlier, or under different circumstances...and it wouldn't go anywhere.

      There are only a few ways my life could be better, and at this time, none of them are that important.

      But a few simple changes at 20 years old, even for the better, would set me on a course that may end up way way worse than now.

      I think I would pass on the offer.
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      "Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity" Friedrich Nietzsche
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        A short meeting with my older self wouldn't give me a daily plan for the rest of my life. I would still make stupid...20 year old type...mistakes.
        Even if I saved myself from a few mistakes, I would make different mistakes that would steer my life in an unknown way.
        Yep. Not only that, but any advice you'd give yourself now would be based on the experience and opinions formed by your life as it turned out - with the unique set of circumstances that have happened to you and the decisions and reactions you made along the way in response to those circumstances.

        I think questions like these are about finding some kind of universal truth. In practice, the truths that matter are those we learn first-hand.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          Yep. Not only that, but any advice you'd give yourself now would be based on the experience and opinions formed by your life as it turned out - with the unique set of circumstances that have happened to you and the decisions and reactions you made along the way in response to those circumstances.

          I think questions like these are about finding some kind of universal truth. In practice, the truths that matter are those we learn first-hand.
          There is a TV series titled Ordinary Joe, about a man who makes a minor life decision, and three ways that could have turned out.

          Cheryl and I discussed all the different ways our lives could be different with just a minor difference in one choice along the way.

          Think of all the choices and actions we take every day. One different action would set us on a different course....maybe a similar course, but the differences would ripple through our lives and the lives of everyone we meet.

          I think this....if one person wasn't born 10,000 years ago, that was born in our reality...this world would now be a different place. Maybe the language would be unrecognizable, science would take a different direction, our cultures would be different.

          I suspect that if (by some miracle) we could go back in time 10,000 years and save a newborn's life...and then time traveled back to today, the world would be unrecognizable, and nobody we knew would be here.
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I could die in any number of accidents, become an alcoholic, a drug addict, a homeless person. If I walked into the wrong bar, started the wrong argument, made the wrong friends...it would be much worse than it was.
        I am just thankful that you were not in a very abusive environment growing up. Otherwise your pro social Psychopathy could have taken a 180 and gone the Ted Bundy route
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      I very much doubt my 20-year-old me would have listened to any advice, let alone from some old git claiming to be from the future. But even if I had, I'd have just made a different set of mistakes - maybe more critical ones.

      Because mistakes come in all varieties. And I'd still be my 20-year-old me.
      I have a similar answer but I think I actually ignored attempts from older me to give advice.

      If I was 20 today I would probably have been heavily medicated in high school. Maybe my high functioning autism would have been detected and worked around. And I may have learned to spell. .
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  • Profile picture of the author IM2Pat
    I'd say pick up a trade as a backup! Take more pictures of loved ones before they are gone. Develop one's self beyond what college teaches you!
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  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
    "Don't marry my first wife."

    I think I may have made the mistake of marrying your first wife
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

      "Don't marry my first wife."

      I think I may have made the mistake of marrying your first wife
      Enough men have married her that there is a support group.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Do you have the medical skill and would you be bringing tools back to save a babies life and there would be some miraculous timing.

    In the process of saving one baby you would probably expose people to modern diseases or introduce the concept of sterilization by boiling water 10000 years early or create some odd religion with people one day waiting for the return of the man from other time.

    You are talking massive contamination far beyond saving one random child. That child could be made into a religious figure and be venerated as the chosen. Some how that child was important enough for you to come from the future to save.

    There is no little interference

    That kind of thing showing up and saving a baby you are now some god or diety to be worshipped
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  • Profile picture of the author Aleenaiqbal
    Not to pick Software engineering just do simple oneIElectronics Engineering.
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  • Profile picture of the author MariamSpark
    I would say for my 20 year old self to enjoy life. and have fun, invest to cryptocurrency since it's a huge nowadays. and never lose hope.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    For get all the soft advice I was 20 in 1998 buy at least 100 shares of Amazon for the next 5 years. And learn to grow gourmet mushrooms
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    There would be a few things I would do differently if I was 20 (1983).


    Save more and spend less (especially on frivolous crap I didn't need).
    Not fall in love so deeply and then have my heart broken so completely that I never found anybody else to love.
    Not eat Mcdonalds for breakfast every morning while cab driving (and some days it would also be lunch or dinner).
    Learn to cook and eat healthy.
    Exercise regularly.
    Don't change jobs as often.
    Have mini-holidays/breaks more often.



    I could probably add more to this list but I think it's enough for this 58 year old guy from downunder.


    This question is quite ironic as I am rather maudling, especially today of all days.
    { { deep sigh } }
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I read where a $100 investment in Bitcoin back in 2010 would be worth $48 million dollars today if you held

    I've wondered how many of those who were selling guides, etc and TELLING others to 'invest in BC'....actually invested $100 themselves and held it....probably not too many.
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  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    Since we're time traveling...how about we LISTEN to what advice our 20 year old selves woud give us?

    "Old man, I ain't got time for all that crap...you should be thankful you're still alive and I've given you all those great adventures...and didn't make it too easy on you either."

    Thank you 20 year old me. Loves me some time travel, eh?

    GordonJ

    Originally Posted by nivlek2009 View Post

    What advice would you give to the 20-Year-Old You?

    I would say keep your job and invest in an investment plan with a reputable company. The company has access to more money than you would probably ever have, thus has access to bigger and better investment opportunities that you would probably have by investing on your own.

    Secondly, invest in reits and ETFs that are popular in your country.

    Lastly, do a side hustle that you enjoy and use some of your salary to fund it.
    Quit your job only when your side hustle exceeds your income.

    ------------

    Do share your advice. It can clarify your own thoughts while helping others, and all good comes back to you, someway, somehow...
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  • 20yo Moi resonated for good or ill with a world prolly goner than my mortal flesh du jour.

    I read sumplace we are totally re-replicated evry 7 years, right down to the twirlyest fronds cavortin' round our tinglydanglies.

    But our planetary mileux spawns inflooential novelty way fastah than this, an' our sensible interaction with all possibility is parta the fabric.

    So I would wanna equip uber-rompin' ol' Moi with a time-savin' Gooberometer.

    Not all hoppertimism is destined for sumplace.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jamell
    I agree you can quit your job once your side hustle exceeds your income .

    I would tell my 20 yeear old self learn fail.explore save invest in the stock market and real estate. Lastly take advantage of living at home .
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  • Profile picture of the author IM2Pat
    I would say to my 20 yr old self... Don't be so gullible! Question sources and rely on instincts more. Like the old adage...If it sounds too good to be true...it probably is!
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  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
    Here's a variation on the theme. You have the chance to go back to and be your 18 year old self. Not with any knowledge of the future of how things turn out or memory of the transition. However, you do retain any confidence, swagger and worldliness that you have built up over the years. Your not that possibly timid 18 year old anymore.

    Would you take that risk. I think I would, I am old and would like the chance to have another crack at it. It all depends how your life turned out and if you are truly satisfied with how things are which would make your decision to go back of course.

    Advantages: You are young again, you have your health, vitality, hair. You are confident and worldly before your time.

    The world was a nicer place to live in back then. No pandemics or global warming issues looming.
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

      Here's a variation on the theme. You have the chance to go back to and be your 18 year old self. Not with any knowledge of the future of how things turn out or memory of the transition. However, you do retain any confidence, swagger and worldliness that you have built up over the years. Your not that possibly timid 18 year old anymore.

      Would you take that risk. I think I would, I am old and would like the chance to have another crack at it. It all depends how your life turned out and if you are truly satisfied with how things are which would make your decision to go back of course.

      Advantages: You are young again, you have your health, vitality, hair. You are confident and worldly before your time.

      The world was a nicer place to live in back then. No pandemics or global warming issues looming.
      So you would gladly live in the Cold War era with the threat of nuclear destruction. Over population. And at the time the thought there would be mass starvation because we could not grow enough food. HIV aids oil shocks and the drug wars. Of the1980

      And much of the world was no where near as friendly as now..

      The pandemic is running it's course and the dominant strain is now the less deadly strain and the supply chain issue may take a few years to clear but they will clear.

      The richest person in the capitalist world is getting wealthy building technology that will help solve global warming. And the pandemic may cause the population to peak before 9 billion and China's population may already be dropping.

      The actual problem now is the world is at the end of 500 years of continuous .

      Now is the best time ever to be alive so far although the coming cascading collapse of fiat currency that will leave the US dollar as the last standing will be terrifying
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

      Not with any knowledge of the future of how things turn out or memory of the transition. However, you do retain any confidence, swagger and worldliness that you have built up over the years. Your not that possibly timid 18 year old anymore.
      That confidence and swagger without the knowledge that built it would make me an even more insufferable asshole than I actually was. I can only imagine the arguments I would have with professors then.

      But would I do it?

      No. The decisions I would make would lead me down a road that would cause my son to never happen. And he makes the world a better place (and me a little bit less of an asshole).
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        That confidence and swagger without the knowledge that built it would make me an even more insufferable asshole that I actually was. I can only imagine the arguments I would have with professors then.

        But would I do it?

        No. The decisions I would make would lead me down a road that would cause my son to never happen. And he makes the world a better place (and me a little bit less of an asshole).
        But a nice asshole.

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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

          But a nice asshole.

          I do what I can, but I can't make any promises.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

            But a nice asshole.


            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

            Does that involve bleaching ?
            When Shane posted that, the temptation was almost overpowering to make a joke.

            My incredibly mature and wise brain prevented me from stating the obvious joke.

            But, to be fair...your joke was better. So I'm glad I held off commenting about Shane's fascination with Dan's ...well...you know.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              When Shane posted that, the temptation was almost overpowering to make a joke.

              My incredibly mature and wise brain prevented me from stating the obvious joke.

              But, to be fair...your joke was better. So I'm glad I held off commenting about Shane's fascination with Dan's ...well...you know.
              I was initially going to go with, "What? You got pictures?" but I went in a different direction.
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            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              When Shane posted that, the temptation was almost overpowering to make a joke.

              My incredibly mature and wise brain prevented me from stating the obvious joke.

              But, to be fair...your joke was better. So I'm glad I held off commenting about Shane's fascination with Dan's ...well...you know.
              Shane's fascination shows he is a "little behind" in his thinking.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        That confidence and swagger without the knowledge that built it would make me an even more insufferable asshole than I actually was. I can only imagine the arguments I would have with professors then.

        But would I do it?

        No. The decisions I would make would lead me down a road that would cause my son to never happen. And he makes the world a better place (and me a little bit less of an asshole).
        I was thinking something similar.

        Confidence and swagger without knowledge makes for far more mistakes...and bigger ones.

        And like you, I considered that I would never get my Son. But it would be because I would never marry my first wife.

        And..I would be even more of an insufferable jerk than I am now.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

      Here's a variation on the theme. You have the chance to go back to and be your 18 year old self. Not with any knowledge of the future of how things turn out or memory of the transition. However, you do retain any confidence, swagger and worldliness that you have built up over the years. Your not that possibly timid 18 year old anymore.

      Would you take that risk. I think I would, I am old and would like the chance to have another crack at it. It all depends how your life turned out and if you are truly satisfied with how things are which would make your decision to go back of course.

      Advantages: You are young again, you have your health, vitality, hair. You are confident and worldly before your time.

      The world was a nicer place to live in back then. No pandemics or global warming issues looming.
      I know this is just a thought experiment, but - if you have no memory or knowledge of the transition, any extra confidence would be ill-founded because it would have no context. You can't be worldly without actual - and mentally retrievable -world experience.
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        I know this is just a thought experiment, but - if you have no memory or knowledge of the transition, any extra confidence would be ill-founded because it would have no context. You can't be worldly without actual - and mentally retrievable -world experience.
        Perhaps I should rephrase it then. Some young people are quoted as having a maturity beyond their years, not having so much the biochemical ups and downs in the brain that puberty and hormones brings for most. So, perhaps you could say it's just a re-wired brain earlier. One that is more stable, something that comes with age. I recall becoming a very different person when I reached 21, compared to when I was 18. I had not learned that much more from one age to another. But, I had formed a more distinctive personality and was less erratic in my thought processes. Just a few short years to make a difference. So with many more years of this refinement, it could be an advantage.

        As for having confidence and a bit of swagger due to the above. It could probably be stifled and not brandished about because of all the other airs and graces that build up with brain development.
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          Perhaps I should rephrase it then.
          Let me help you:

          "I want to be 18 again, but with all the confidence and worldly wisdom I've acquired over many decades of life"

          (AKA "Cake and eat it too.")

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          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
            Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

            Let me help you:

            "I want to be 18 again, but with all the confidence and worldly wisdom I've acquired over many decades of life"

            (AKA "Cake and eat it too.")

            I think the cake and eating it would more be having prior knowledge of the future and using it to your advantage.

            Having a maturity, and the logic and the ability to quickly grasp and understand worldly things as they come along and not react with a typical 18 year mind is of course an advantage. But I offered this to see if anyone would take the deal, a sweetener. Not just the youth vigor, and health bit.

            As you can see, despite this, no one here would (so far) as they fear their life would have turned out different, which it most likely would. Happy to be old or older because they like the person they are with or the situation they are in. Better the devil they know despite the possibility of it turning out even better.

            However, It would be absolutely horrible to be trapped in the mind of an 18 year old you in the 70's with all your memories to the current day intact, a nightmare even. Nothing would be new to you, life would be tiresome and boring, you would miss all the tech and convenience life gives you now, as well as the people or partners

            But some like myself will be attracted to have another crack at it. Even with it's uncertainty.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post


              However, It would be absolutely horrible to be trapped in the mind of an 18 year old you in the 70's with all your memories to the current day intact, a nightmare even. Nothing would be new to you, life would be tiresome and boring, you would miss all the tech and convenience life gives you now, as well as the people or partners
              I'm not sure how much different the brain is at 21 from being 18. And I don't know how much maturity comes from a mature brain. I think experiences shape us over the long term.

              I think any maturity or wisdom I have now came from the people around me, making me better. The books I've read. The discussions I've had. Lessons learned. And none of that comes from just having an adult brain.

              I remember being 18 and 21. I was a bit more mature at 21.....but at 40? I was a completely different person. And at 66 a completely different person still.

              If you could go back to being 18 again, meaning go back in time...and be 18 again, but know everything you know now?

              Your idea is different from mine. I wouldn't be bored.

              But I'd still be at home in an unhealthy, abusive family. Surrounded by people I'd love, but they would be toxic to me. And I wouldn't be able to stay around them.

              And I'd never be bored. I'd be scared sh!tless (see what I did there?) that anything I did would change the trajectory of my life. Or even worse, the lives of others.

              If I'm the only one that knows the future, I would feel a great responsibility to try to stop disasters, accidents, deaths of people I care about...and even people I don't know.

              Every act, every movement, every decision would have great weight to me. Who would this act hurt? How will this affect others?

              I think it would be overwhelming.

              Frankly, things I accepted at 18-30, I'd find repellant now. Again, I'm not the same person I was. And I would never want to go back.
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            • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
              Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

              I think the cake and eating it would more be having prior knowledge of the future and using it to your advantage.
              What I meant was having the youthful health of an 18-year-old, but the experience and wisdom of your current self. Nothing to do with knowledge of the future.

              As you can see, despite this, no one here would (so far) as they fear their life would have turned out different, which it most likely would. Happy to be old or older because they like the person they are with or the situation they are in. Better the devil they know despite the possibility of it turning out even better.
              There's also the fact that they've made it to now. There's no guarantee that an alternative them would have done so.

              There are some things I'd change. For example, there are people I wish I'd met earlier or lessons I wish I'd learned sooner. But everyone's life is a continuous work in progress. I hope to be fortunate enough to have more regrets ten years from now.
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  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    I would tell my 20 year old self to beware of a huckster hiding behind the guise of a vacuum cleaner salesman only to find out his real world aim : to gain world dominance through evil and destruction by eating all the cheeseburgers he can get his hands on

    Yes, that is what I would tell my 20 something year self.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Advice to my 20 yr old self....


    "run!!! - hide!!! - don't come out till you are 30".....


    But - I wouldn't have listened anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author VictorLoanz90
    Well if I can turn back the hands of time or rather give advice to 20 year old me I'd suggest to completely refrain from any negative energy that'll only serve as a deterrent on my road to success , I'd go to a trade school instead of college and start building my credit young and being much wiser about money savings and stay away from unnecessary spending because sitting back and enjoying the fruits of your labor later in life is much greater than instant gratification!!
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