Monkeys Can Talk, Researchers Discover

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"Boom! Hok! A Monkey Language Is Deciphered"

Researchers have discovered that monkeys at the Tai National Park in the Ivory Coast are talking to each other. They have even figured out what the monkeys' words mean.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/08/science/08monkey.html
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    It's about time they were able to document this ability. Communication is instinctual in all species....we just have more diverse ability because we have a more diverse vocal chord system.

    Dogs can understand strings of words that they are familiar with and Coco the Ape and chimps under linguistic studies showed the ability to make new words for items that they didn't have words for from the list of words they already knew. For example, one (it might have been Coco herself) called watermelon "sweet water".

    Hamsters can learn words. Mine were always taught to come when they were called, shake hands, and give kisses. And look at birds that have vocal chords diverse enough to learn human words - sometimes they just "parrot" words to say something, but they know how to use them to actually convey messages as well.

    Humans just aren't as "special" as they like to think they are sometimes.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      It's about time they were able to document this ability. Communication is instinctual in all species....we just have more diverse ability because we have a more diverse vocal chord system.

      Dogs can understand strings of words that they are familiar with and Coco the Ape and chimps under linguistic studies showed the ability to make new words for items that they didn't have words for from the list of words they already knew. For example, one (it might have been Coco herself) called watermelon "sweet water".

      Hamsters can learn words. Mine were always taught to come when they were called, shake hands, and give kisses. And look at birds that have vocal chords diverse enough to learn human words - sometimes they just "parrot" words to say something, but they know how to use them to actually convey messages as well.

      Humans just aren't as "special" as they like to think they are sometimes.
      Coco has shown an amazing ability to comprehend language. She's made ryhmes, both through sound as well as creating "physical" ryhmes. She also teaches sign language to younger gorillas.

      When one of her regular trainers took a day off, Coco got upset...Then she was told (signed) that the trainer's baby had died. Coco gave the sign that she was "crying".

      I also saw a show on dolphins. The trainers would reward a particular dophin every time it learned a new trick. The trainer then wanted the dolphin to make up it's own trick, but did't know how to communicate this.

      For weeks (or more) the dolphin would do old tricks, trying to earn the reward. As time went on, the dolphin became more and more depressed...Then one day, the dolphin cheered up and did a totally original trick, and was rewarded some fish...The dolphin then went on a creative binge, creating new trick after new trick. This shows that not only can dolphins understand us, but that they have creative thinking and can create original thoughts, then act them out.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Coco has shown an amazing ability to comprehend language. She's made ryhmes, both through sound as well as creating "physical" ryhmes. She also teaches sign language to younger gorillas.

        When one of her regular trainers took a day off, Coco got upset...Then she was told (signed) that the trainer's baby had died. Coco gave the sign that she was "crying".

        I also saw a show on dolphins. The trainers would reward a particular dophin every time it learned a new trick. The trainer then wanted the dolphin to make up it's own trick, but did't know how to communicate this.

        For weeks (or more) the dolphin would do old tricks, trying to earn the reward. As time went on, the dolphin became more and more depressed...Then one day, the dolphin cheered up and did a totally original trick, and was rewarded some fish...The dolphin then went on a creative binge, creating new trick after new trick. This shows that not only can dolphins understand us, but that they have creative thinking and can create original thoughts, then act them out.
        Kurt - There is also a lab that they have keyboards with symbols for words on the keys for their monkeys to use and these little guys get pretty proficient with them.

        Another point your post shows - animals not only think, they feel. I haven't had an animal yet that didn't have quite strong ways of showing emotion. Then I see how we treat them and it makes me want to kill humans - many of them.


        John M Kane -- WTF? I see you forgot to take your meds again today.

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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          I don't see why this is so astonishing. They are our ancestors, you know. There was a scientist who once wrote a scientific paper documenting exactly how man descended from the monkeys. When it was shown to a group of monkeys at the zoo, they passed it around for peer review. Afterall, you would think they should know better than anyone else, right? Everyone of them seemed to be in agreement by nodding yes and jumping up and down. Except for one of them who was insulted by it. That monkey ate the paper so there is no proof.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      It's about time they were able to document this ability. Communication is instinctual in all species....we just have more diverse ability because we have a more diverse vocal chord system.
      And who are WE to even claim this? Dolphins have clicks and squeals that we don't, and elephants have grunts. HECK, humans aren't even really capable of doing what HUMANS can! They have found that babies have some abilities that are built up, or may disappear based on use, and a person that learned chinese early becomes more readily able to pickout and discern certain pitch changes. BTW at least some birds can do duets with themselves!

      It is simply that people, like many other animals, have a certain range of abilities, or potential abilities, and found a way to utilize them.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    That's for sure. Many people even have this kind of attitude towards other humans, having difficulty wrapping their head around the notion that they might be cognizant too, never mind other species.
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    • Profile picture of the author garyv
      "Krak krak! (Watch out, a leopard!)"

      That means "watch out a cougar" in my neck of the woods... lol
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Well, all I know is that Tiger quickly became known as lyin' cheetah.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stephen Root
    That's great news. I love these type of news. It's just so bizarre that we have basically networked the whole world in less than 100 years but we still don't fully understand our surroundings and other species that are suppose to be less intelligent than us. A lot of this has to do with the fact that humans usually feel so superior against other species that we don't want to admit they might have human-like abilities.
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by Stephen Root View Post

      <snip>
      It's just so bizarre that we have basically networked the whole world in less than 100 years but we still don't fully understand our surroundings and other species that are suppose to be less intelligent than us.
      <snip>
      Very true. We're only recently discovering how smart dogs are, even though we're with them every day:
      Author Knows What Goes On 'Inside Of A Dog' : NPR
      How intelligence is defined is pretty arbitrary to begin with (I'm easily really smart or really stupid by simple shifts of of criteria). If we defined intelligence by the skills necessary for a wild animal to survive, it wouldn't be so clear-cut which species is the smartest.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Years ago a friend had a fish store. He told me a story about something
    he witnessed, and it just amazed me.

    There was a particular kind of salt water fish, can't remember the name,
    that he had in a tank. A small fish, but it preferred to eat live food. So
    he put a smaller live fish in for the other fish to eat.

    There was a piece of conduit/piping in the tank that was about a foot
    long. The larger fish could not catch the smaller one, apparently.

    The small fish entered the pipe. The large fish quickly swam to the other
    end of the pipe and waited. You know what happened.

    The small fish emerged from the other end, the large fish was waiting
    on the side but near the opening. And of course he got the small fish.

    I think that's kinda amazing for a fish. Or maybe I'm just simple minded
    and easily impressed. lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author Thunder059
      YES.That would correct.In our country, even monkeys are also some what intelligent.This is not a joke.I'm talking seriously.

      In some regious areas,there are more.Since they know that people like to offer things to them in those areas.But i have heard that, there are different types of them.Don't know whether it is effected for their intelligence or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author John M Kane
    Oh,just great! Just you wait, soon the Dems are going to get poultry the right to vote, we'll be paying reparations for their genocide,and welfare funds for their illegitimate offspring.
    Say bye bye to eggs Benedict Arnold and McNuggets(just chicken tumors so,probably will be OK but, will have to be surgically removed to save the hens)
    I won't even begin to talk about all those mosquitoes and Off's WMDs.Deet will be banned, tribunals will commence...Oh the humanity!
    The UN will be BUSY.
    OR Fishing! then it will be worms,and the impending hilgramite rebellion.
    Bugs flying in my ears just was them trying to tell me stuff, eh?
    Then the fungi will be next. Get used to making friends with your athletes feet.

    HeySal,
    You think Kevin Riley has been getting all his ideas from all those critters he has?
    He must be running a Hamster "Sweat Shop" in his Product Creations Lab.

    Of all the hamsters I ever had their only 'trick' was turning food pellets into different kind of pellets.

    We did send one up in a model rocket once.
    He was not sacrificed. He came down fine as it has a parachute.

    He ran around VERY fast in tiny circles for a couple minutes while spraying out those pellets after being removed from the space capsule.
    ALL over my friends pool table Wouldn't have thunk SO many pellets would be in that tiny guy.

    The space ship landed on a man's roof.
    You should have seen the expression on his face when we rang the door bell and asked if we can get our rocket off his roof Classic.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    If animals were as DUMB as some claim, they wouldn't live very long. Scientists, realizing that, decided they would call some things INSTINCT to make it sound just natural. So it is INSTINCT that a seagull will carry a clam very high, drop it on a rock, and get the meat. It is INSTINCT that a chimp will teach its young to bash a rock onto a nut on a nut to get the meat. It is INSTINCT that a pack of lions will plan an ambush and run their prey into exhuastion, and get the meat.

    Maybe it is simply that they are usually doing these "tricks" to get food or care for young.

    One problem though! Various human tribes have the SAME tricks and for the SAME reasons. Oh well!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      If animals were as DUMB as some claim, they wouldn't live very long. Scientists, realizing that, decided they would call some things INSTINCT to make it sound just natural. So it is INSTINCT that a seagull will carry a clam very high, drop it on a rock, and get the meat. It is INSTINCT that a chimp will teach its young to bash a rock onto a nut on a nut to get the meat. It is INSTINCT that a pack of lions will plan an ambush and run their prey into exhuastion, and get the meat.

      Maybe it is simply that they are usually doing these "tricks" to get food or care for young.

      One problem though! Various human tribes have the SAME tricks and for the SAME reasons. Oh well!

      Steve

      Steve - all instinct means is that an ability is "hardwired" into your brain. Scientists also used to insist humans were above instincts and had none, but they now know that language is instinctual. Any time two humans are raised together without hearing language from an outside source, they will develop their own. If they are raised ferrel, they will adopt the communication system of whatever pack they are raised in.

      All I said is that humans have vocal chords that allow for a broader range of sounds. If many dogs had our vocal chord system they could actually speak back to us any words of our own language they know - they have to communicate with us via different means because their vocal chords just don't cut human speech. Some animals have more ability for diverse sounds than others, some just add on to sounds they are capable of to make different meaning.

      Instinct can only account for ability to communicate -- individuals of any species will have more sharps on top of their instincts than others. Some animals are now known to use items for tools when just a few decades ago it was believed that humans alone use tools, for example. Maybe not every animal in a species will be able to think of something, but there are always smarter individuals in any species that will accomplish more amazing feats than others.

      As far as your comments about human language -- We learn the language first and most innately that we are immersed within. Language is NOT seperate from sociology (see the Sapier-Wharf theory, which is the accepted model of the field that NPL comes from)...it is the means by which we put order to the chaos of our world. The Chinese recognize tones more than we do because it is a TONAL language. Japanese confuse "L" and "R" because in their language there is no difference between the sound. THey have to be taught to hear that difference. Nothing so phenomenal about that.

      We have only a basic bit of tone use in our language which is purely morpheme based. We will change the meaning of our entire statements by changing the tone - it is this way that sarcasm works. The words mean the same in any tone but when we change that tone, we can tell the statement means something other than what we said. You change the tone of "yeah right" - and it will mean "yeah wrong" instead, for instance.

      It's not clear at this point in time whether animals can use sarcasm in communication. Do they change tones of a bark or "krak" to show humor or sarcasm? Heck, we're just now admitting finally that animals can communicate and think on a level par with humans at all. It would be very interesting to find out exactly what those dolphins and whales are saying to each other about us when they get together though, LOL.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        It would be very interesting to find out exactly what those dolphins and whales are saying to each other about us when they get together though, LOL.

        My guess would be, "there goes the neighborhood."
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        We have only a basic bit of tone use in our language which is purely morpheme based. We will change the meaning of our entire statements by changing the tone - it is this way that sarcasm works. The words mean the same in any tone but when we change that tone, we can tell the statement means something other than what we said. You change the tone of "yeah right" - and it will mean "yeah wrong" instead, for instance.

        It's not clear at this point in time whether animals can use sarcasm in communication. Do they change tones of a bark or "krak" to show humor or sarcasm? Heck, we're just now admitting finally that animals can communicate and think on a level par with humans at all. It would be very interesting to find out exactly what those dolphins and whales are saying to each other about us when they get together though, LOL.
        I'm well aware of what instinct is supposed to mean. Some just use the word SO freely that it becomes pretty meaningless.

        As for tone, the chinese language has about 5 meanings for every "word", and only tone may distinguish them. Sometimes they can make sense in context and one might be nice, and another an insult. You may ask for soup, for example, and be understood as asking for a flower. It is fairly unique. I know of NO european language that does so and hindi, arabic, and even japanese don't. It is quite different from simple sarcasm, or asking a question. By contrast, perhaps all european languages, hindi, arabic, nad perhaps even japanese, handle questions in the same manner, and perhaps even sarcasm.

        Apparently nearly 100% below a certain age get to where it is second nature, and most older people just don't.

        Hey, HHGTTG says the dolphins are telling us the world is ending, and thanks for the fish, at least according to the movie. 8-) I never bothered to read the book and, with such a crazy movie, I may never read the book.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          <snip
          Apparently nearly 100% below a certain age get to where it is second nature, and most older people just don't.

          <snip>

          Steve
          Tonal languages are interesting. I believe anyone who isn't tone-deaf would probably be capable of learning how to speak Mandarin. I gather that some of the Native languages of Mexico are tonal. That said, most European ancestry people who learn the language will typically understand it considerably better than speak it.

          Native English speakers tend to have an easier time of learning Mandarin than Japanese people, since there is a diverse range of sounds in English as well as a grammatical similarity between English and Mandarin (in fact, Mandarin grammar quite simple).

          I've found that Japanese people are often quite good at learning Spanish. I think that this is because Spanish and Japanese are rhythmic languages, in which each syllable is like a separate beat.

          One thing I've long pondered is if dogs in China learn to pick up tones (please refrain from obvious joke opening here), but I digress (I digressed early on in this post, I know).
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

            Tonal languages are interesting. I believe anyone who isn't tone-deaf would probably be capable of learning how to speak Mandarin. I gather that some of the Native languages of Mexico are tonal. That said, most European ancestry people who learn the language will typically understand it considerably better than speak it.

            Native English speakers tend to have an easier time of learning Mandarin than Japanese people, since there is a diverse range of sounds in English as well as a grammatical similarity between English and Mandarin (in fact, Mandarin grammar quite simple).

            I've found that Japanese people are often quite good at learning Spanish. I think that this is because Spanish and Japanese are rhythmic languages, in which each syllable is like a separate beat.

            One thing I've long pondered is if dogs in China learn to pick up tones (please refrain from obvious joke opening here), but I digress (I digressed early on in this post, I know).
            WELL, *I* can discern tones rather well. I would say better than the average American. Yet a Tiwanese friend, who was a native mandarin speaker, SWORE he used different tines, and I didn't see the difference.

            Outside of seeing it represented visually, while hearing it, I don't think I would want to attempt it. And HEY, some go all their lives with a tone that just doesn't sound right.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              WELL, *I* can discern tones rather well. I would say better than the average American. Yet a Tiwanese friend, who was a native mandarin speaker, SWORE he used different tines, and I didn't see the difference.

              Outside of seeing it represented visually, while hearing it, I don't think I would want to attempt it. And HEY, some go all their lives with a tone that just doesn't sound right.

              Steve
              Well, of course! If you just had a brief exposure to it, it wouldn't be enough to acquaint your ear to it. I can speak Mandarin. While I'm not tone deaf, I'm not good at music and can't carry a tune very well (zong shi pao diao). In learning Mandarin, it helped to keep to this concept in mind: What is subtle to my ear is obvious to the Chinese ear (and when they learn English, vice versa for them). My main approach to learning Mandarin was "He pi jiu, liao tian." (Drink Beer and Chat)

              Ni kan. Yang gui houzi hui shuo putonghua!
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          I'm well aware of what instinct is supposed to mean. Some just use the word SO freely that it becomes pretty meaningless.

          As for tone, the chinese language has about 5 meanings for every "word", and only tone may distinguish them. Sometimes they can make sense in context and one might be nice, and another an insult. You may ask for soup, for example, and be understood as asking for a flower. It is fairly unique. I know of NO european language that does so and hindi, arabic, and even japanese don't. It is quite different from simple sarcasm, or asking a question. By contrast, perhaps all european languages, hindi, arabic, nad perhaps even japanese, handle questions in the same manner, and perhaps even sarcasm.

          Apparently nearly 100% below a certain age get to where it is second nature, and most older people just don't.

          Hey, HHGTTG says the dolphins are telling us the world is ending, and thanks for the fish, at least according to the movie. 8-) I never bothered to read the book and, with such a crazy movie, I may never read the book.

          Steve
          Steve - mandarin based languages are tonal languages - I had some Vietnamese students once and they were baffled by the fact that our words mean the same no matter what tone we speak them in. You could actually hear them trying to change the word by changing their tones - we used to get to laughing about it. I, on the other hand have a bit of deafness that doesn't allow me to hear some pitches and have one heck of a time understanding anything tonal based so never even bother trying to learn the tonal languages. I just don't "get" it.

          And you are right - once someone says "instinct" to many that means no thought necessary or used. That might work in the case of how a duck knows which way to fly when they migrate - or learning what signals it's own group uses for different meaning -- but for a group to come up with new signals or to mix old ones takes abstract thought process, plain and simple.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    yes, animals are super intelligent. thats why they spend the biggest part of their day licking their own butts and having poo fights.

    because thats what all the super intelligent members of the animal kingdom do.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      yes, animals are super intelligent. thats why they spend the biggest part of their day licking their own butts and having poo fights.

      because thats what all the super intelligent members of the animal kingdom do.
      Some people do they same!
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    really? people lick their own butts?
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    OK, maybe not lick their own butts, I don't even really know if I have ever seen one lick another's, but some people HAVE thrown poo around, and I have seen some WEIRD things.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      OK, so you are saying you have seen people throw poo around or something weird like that? - BTW, I actually do know if I have seen someone else "lick anothers". How could you not know that?????

      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      OK, maybe not lick their own butts, I don't even really know if I have ever seen one lick another's, but some people HAVE thrown poo around, and I have seen some WEIRD things.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    I've always wondered what animals say to each other. Like when you see a dog thats dressed in sweater and hat, do the other dogs in the neighborhood laugh at it when its out for a walk?

    When a fish is reeled in after being hooked, do the other fish watch him go by, point and say 'moron'.

    Or when you see people that do crazy stuff with their pets like skydive with their dog or scuba dive with their cats...do those animals go back to other animals and say 'do you know what i just did????' and do the other animals just look at them and say 'yeah, sure.'
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