My husband's getting cold feet...

Thanks for your response, Laura.

Yes, both of us have valid points. We know that the farm won't really get to be financially profitable until the 2nd, maybe 3rd year. We're not banking on that profit, but we are banking on being able to grow lots of our own food. We'll also have goats, so we won't have to buy milk or cheese.

Right now, in Chicago, we pay $1300 a month in rent, not including any utilities. Gas and electric run around $100 each a month, and cable/internet is around $120.

Where we're planning on moving, we will utilize wood heat and a woodburning fireplace, our mortgage would be around $700/month, no gas at all, and I'm unsure about how much the electric costs in that area. So the costs of living will be much less.

Ugh, this is just frustrating. LOL

Hey Lisa,
I bet that is frustrating!
Apparently at some point the idea gave him warm feet or you wouldn't have gotten this far with it.
here is a suggestion for you:
Both of you sit down (not necessarily together; whichever works for you)
Title a page: Moving from Chicago to Farm
Make columns: Pros and Cons
Each of you pick the top 20 of your thoughts for each column (typically ruled paper will have about 25 rows) no more/no less for each.
Each of you will have a tough time stretching one side to make the 20, I'm thinking

Trade papers and put yourself in each other's shoes for a little while (I'd suggest alone)

Then...see what matches...see what doesn't...and find the compromise that keeps both of you semi-pleased with the results :-)
maybe it will warm his feet again

seeya,
Andie

PS: Tossing 1300 into drain for renting anything makes my stomach clench! LOL

Thanks Andie - what's even more sick than renting for $1300 is the fact that I couldn't buy anything in Chicago that would have even remotely that low of a mortgage payment.

It is a no-brainer...I think he's just afraid. If I were in his position and he were telling me "don't worry - I can make all the money we'll need online"...wellllll let's just say I'd be a bit worried as well. LOL

It's a humongous leap of faith...especially with two kids. But I'm not waiting until I retire to live the life I want to live with my family.

quote came to mind...don't know who said it...
'buy land...they aren't making any more of it'

Laura is right about the 'dealt with the "worst case scenario" of the cons, and the pros ended up outweighing it.'
hopefully, doing the little excercise will let hubby see that also in your situation.

Andie
(thinkin' it's time for a food break)

Hi Lisa,

I'm not trying to be a downer here (famous last words ), but my family owns a farm as well as a lot of my friends. These are basically 60 - 220 acres farms. Small for farms, in fact too small to make any substantial profits on.

By the sounds of your posts it appears you have bought into a romantic version of what a farm can do versus what you will actually experience.

Having said that, I think a move to the country is one of the best things anyone can do if you have been living in the city and are looking for a change of pace.

I moved from LA to the Shenandoah Valley a few years ago, not only to be back home closer to my family, but also to escape that gawdawful overcrowding we call the 'rat race' and bought some land of my own to stretch out on.

Bottom line to my post is that if you are going to make the move to grow your own food and raise animals don't be fooled into thinking it will save you money. It won't, and if you include the labor it takes to maintain the property, animals, crops, machinery, etc you will see that you have to do it as a labor of love. If you add in the overhead costs (cash outlays) associated with the above items then you can see that owning a farm or a farmette is better suited to folks who have disposible income to support the venture.

Other than that...

KJ

Lisa - perhaps your husband could consider a way he can help bring in some income so it's not all on you to support your family?

Lisa,
I'm thinking that it might help to make him more comfortable if he felt assured that your online activities are truly sustainable, and not going to be subject to some kind of random catastrophe (ie, Google slap) that would put you out of business. How much a part of the business is he? A lot of spouses tend to see IM as something the rest of us play around at and occasionally get a check for. If your husband is more involved, maybe he'll feel more secure.

@Andie - I think it was Will Rogers who came up with that line about buying land.

"but my family owns a farm as well as a lot of my friends."

KJ, I'm just curious, what's the going rate for your friends?

If you don't do this now you will never do it. Put it this way if you were not suppose to do this you wouldn't be able to come this far. Anything you start new always has a big impact; live the life you want to live with your family. Don't let anything hold you back, having children mean more responsibility but should this really stop you from accomplishing your dreams, I think your husband just needs a bit of a push and things will start rolling again.

Lisa,

Killer Joe certainly makes some good points. Farms are more like some of the funnier parts of the I Love Lucy episode where they try to do that than the dreams some have. You have wild pests, parasites, feeding, cleaning, environment, various tasks, etc.... Even shows like ponderosa, etc... you see hints of what can happen. As for farming, there are pests, watering, fertilizing, perhaps rotating, etc.... And there is the idea of choosing the crop. I like carrots, but you might only get like 4 per square foot. And peanuts are nice, but what about harvesting? Luckily, the big farms now are HUGE, and have HUGE robots that can make it childsplay. Sadly, the small owner doesn't have that ability.

and then there is your HOME! extreme temperatures can hurt your home, so you want to keep it warm during the winter. Can your fireplaces provide enough heat for the place? Do you REALLY want to deal with the wood? And have you actually priced wood? HECK, I almost moved into a place that even had a well and septic system. Well, it turns out that the well might need to be enlarged, etc... Septic systems, at least here, have a field that has two parts. You have to flip a switch twice a year. Failure to do so can lead to excessive maintenance requirements. every see "meet the parents"? And it is illegal in my town to have a septic system unless you have at least 2 acres of property. I guess you can imagine how big that field can be.

Steve

Hi Lisa,

Many years ago, when I was in the military and stationed in Germany I
lived off base. I rented the second floor of a farm house. The only heat
was an oil heater in the hallway. The hot water for a hot bath had to
be heated by an oil heater. It took so long to heat the water that I just
went into work early, stopped by my old barracks, and took a steaming
hot shower.

So, yes... the oil heater in the hallway. Well, it didn't. That was one
terribly long and cold winter. I had an electric heater on a chair aimed
at me in bed. It barely helped.

Now, I realize that burning wood for heat is different. But some things
that came to mind were...

Wood stoves in the bedrooms? How many around the house?

I'm guessing a load of wood won't last all night. It's gonna get cold
during the winter nights. Thinking about it is one thing, living it is
another. Be prepared for major grief from the other family members.
Of course it's something they can get used to. But there will be the
so called, "period of adjustment."

But I'm not up on wood burning stoves, or wood heat, etc. So I could
be totally wrong about all that.

I'm not trying to discourage you at all. Just maybe throwing some
perspective your way.

I used to work with a guy who inherited his family farm. I think it's
about 50-100 acres in Pennsylvania. He's been offered millions in the
past from developers. His farm land neighbors haven't sold and neither
will he. So that's cool.

Every summer he has cows delivered to graze on his land. He gets paid
something, and he likes the arrangement. He said it's really not quite
worth it to try to grow crops for cash. I don't know all the specifics. The
cows leave in the fall, or something. Apparently his grass is extremely green.

But he's very happy living there with his wife and two young kids. They
grow all their veggies and whatever. His wife is a canning monster, I
guess. So they grow their stuff and eat it during the winter, etc.

It's certainly doable, of course.

But, regarding the heat situation... I would make sure everyone knows
it'll be unlike what they've experienced in life, so far.

Also... I would make sure you can get internet access out there. A
satellite dish, I presume. It would be so uncool to discover, for some
unknown reason, that it won't work out. But I'm not an expert for
a situation like that.

Good luck...

The first thing I was going to ask is does your husband bring in any income or contribute to the household? I saw HeySal said something along those lines. You said you support you, him, and the kids, but you didn't say what he did. Is he a househusband? Does he bring in any income?

Organic farming sounds totally cool though and I'd love that! (I think) I totally agree you should go with your dreams. And even if later on it doesn't work out, that's better than never doing it and never knowing and always wondering and living with regret you never did what your heart desired. I would rather do what I was interested in and end up having it not work out than doing nothing out of fear and not having any regrets. Personally I'm very interested in the organic movement, organic foods, etc, and more and more people are too as they are becoming more aware of organic and don't want all those chemicals and can't pronounce it stuff in their processed foods. But I don't know a thing about the business side of it. I just know all the organic stuff in stores have to come from somewhere. Dunno about the profitability rate.

Anyway I see where your husband is coming from too. He's scared. He's afraid you'll leave your job which is also his security, something will go wrong and you all will end up broke and homeless.

Just a note it's really expensive to live in Chicago (and all big cities). For what you're paying you can 3x or more here.

Well, don't give up on your dreams. If you've been working your butt off for something and seeing progress, you deserve to do what you've been working for even in some think its nuts. It's your money, your work, your life. Hopefully you and your husband can work something out where you are both comfortable with it.

Thanks, everyone, for your input. We've talked things over at length and we're both on the same page again.

Yes, my husband is a stay-at-home dad. We have a son who has "light" autism, for lack of a better phrase, and the Chicago Public School system would eat him alive. The only other school here in Chicago we'd even consider for him is a Waldorf school, and at $18000/year for tuition, that's not happening. My husband is a former attorney who was terribly unhappy with the law, and I was a stay at home mom who couldn't hack it. LOL So we switched! I went back to work and he stayed home. We also have a 2.5 year old (going on 22) little girl.

I'm no stranger to the north...I was raised in northern Wisconsin. We heated our entire home with wood and when you have a proper wood stove installed in your home, it does efficiently heat the whole house. (We had a two-story home in Wisconsin - it's not the little potbelly wood stove we're talking about, it's a big stove with an automatic blower, etc...) We won't be buying wood...we'll be cutting it from our own land. And we'll also be canning our veggies, etc.

Our actual garden will be small - maybe a half an acre. We'll be growing exclusive heirloom vegetable varieties that are so popular now in upscale restaurants.

I was wondering if he was a "househusband". Well you can't say he does nothing then, that's like saying a stay at home mom does nothing. It's HAAAAAAAAARD work, getting a regular job is easier AND you get paid for it. I wouldn't mind one of those LOL . I have one with "mild" autism if whats what u call it so I know how that is. He's more of a handful than 20 regular kids. But here, the school is good to him. He has his own special curriculum that's only for him, special classes, speech therapy, occupational therapy (don't know why it's called that). He's been doing a lot better since he started preschool last year. He still has major unbelievable obsessions nobody would understand, talks in a way most ppl can not understand, etc, etc.

Anyway hope it all works. Did you want your farm in Illinois?

My grandparents raised all their food. The vegetables in the garden, killed their own meat and canned their food to eat in the winter. What about a farm in Florida, won't need to worry about heat much there, maybe 2 weeks a year

Yes, critters eating the veggies. My friend on the PA farm told me lots of
stories about fighting those who eat their veggies. It's an ongoing affair. So
that is something you'll definitely have to deal with, but it sounds like you're
onto that story.

Your husband was/is an attorney? Have you thought about taking some of
his knowledge and turning it into an info product? Certainly seems like it's
worth investigating.

Marigolds are ALSO supposed to be good for keeping insects away.

And YEAH, rabbits can be sneaky and hungry. And don't forget gophers, etc...

BTW working for yourself might adversly affect your credit short term. And make sure you replace benefits like health insurance.

ALSO, some existing wood on your property might not be usable foor a lot of reasons. I know of one apartment building that had to replace some trees they removed. So WHO KNOWS? Also, easements and plants that cross a border may be considered public.

Steve

there are two sides to this to me.

I grew up on a farm. I dont know about where KJ is from but ours was a 72 acre beef farm and it more than supported itself..but it was pretty much beef only and thats a bit more expensive growing 'taters.

If you're going to grow your own food, thats cool and all but you need to remember, thats not going to be 'it'.

You're not going to eat all that food at once right? Well you can't just save it, it will go bad after a while. Welcome to the world of canning which in an of itself is practically a learned art if not a career and a decent investment in time, money and gear.

Unless you plan on doing everything with a hoe youu'll need equipment..etc. Not cheap. Unless you are handy with a wrench you'll spend as much in equipment as you do for thte land.

However, you can also sublease land out to farmers who will tend the crops and give you a slice as well.

and if you're going to buy a house, right now the gov't is giving an $8k first time buyers credit that isnt going to last much longer and doubtfully will come back

so if you're going to do it, now is the time.

Maybe just an acre with a decent house and a garden in the back?

Thanks for that link, Kay!

The property we're looking at is a smaller 4 bedroom chalet-style home on 16 acres. It has some established fruit trees, and about 4 acres of pines and a stream toward the back of the property. That's where we'd get our wood from. The home has a very large fireplace, but the heat is supplied via a wood stove and also a secondary wood pellet stove in the basement. Luckily, it has a full basement, so that's where we'd store the food that we preserve. We also plan on a large chest freezer so that we can simply buy a side of beef, have it butchered, and fill up the freezer.

We've been reading and planning for months now...but I realize that is absolutely no substitute for the reality of day to day life, the pains in the butt and the good times as well. It will be a learning experience for each of us and one that we are really looking forward to...for us, personally, the benefits far outweigh the risks.

Keep this thread going, if you want! I really am enjoying hearing everyone's perspectives, experiences and advice!

Lisa, I have a similar family situation to yours where I have an 8-year autistic and a 5 year old normal daughter. I am the sole bread earner making all my money online.

As much as I would not like to, I would have to advise caution in your case, because you cannot afford to be poor. There are really too many unknowns that can happen with an autistic child. Mine was supposed to be light as well and she is now in a mess. It is not to say that you should not buy a property. But I would look at all possible angles before you buy a farm.

Also a lot depends on how sustainable your business is, and whether you have good lifeboat in terms of your savings. I suffered a series of Google slaps in the past 18 months. My income in 2009 was less than half that of 2008 and was not sufficient to cover our living expenses. It is only now that I have a reasonable chance to cover our living expenses again.


Derek

@Derek...I've not built my business around AdSense for that very reason. The bulk of my money is made through my own products.

That's my dream, to live in a place with a warm climate near the ocean. The learning Spanish part would be another positive for me, since I want to be fluent in it anyway and the best way to learn a language is to live where they speak it.

Great thread, very interesting

You can also raise free range chickens! I'm seeing a lot of labels now in stores on egg cartons that say "free range chickens" which are supposed to be a lot better than commercial eggs, tho dunno the specifics.

Oh wow now I wanna own a farm and grow all kindsa stuff!!!!!!!!

You know, we have a book that was published by the USDA back in 1978 called "Living on 5 Acres" or something like that. It's dated, but it does a really great job at spelling out exactly what you can expect out of moving from the city to the country. I'm reading it now.

This weekend we're going to sit down and outline exactly what we want, what each of us expects out of this change, etc. It's all too important to leave anything to chance.

After you've made the move, you can write a book or make a blog on moving from the city to the country or gardening/farming for beginners. A new book or blog, sure it would be a hit. A lot of people have become interested in growing their own small garden with the rising cost of food.

I have a blog - Iona Farm|Finding our peace on Iona Farm - that I'm just really starting to post on. Check it out!

Another excellent point and something we've discussed at length. We're not getting emotionally invested in any one property, rather it's the idea of the type of property we want that we're emotionally tied to.

We have a couple things that we must have, but mostly we're pretty flexible. We'll go as cheaply as we can, and we are looking at REO's, pre-foreclosures and auctions as well.

Maybe you could let your husband know that the $8,000 tax credit is going to be up in April. You have to have a signed purchase agreement by April 30th 2010 and close by I think June 1st 2010. My husbands friend just bought a house at $72,000 and 6-8 weeks after he closed he received a check in the mail for $7,200. And I explained to him to put this money away just in case something happens to the house. I feel that no job is secure these days. Everything is put on you to supply your retirement and income. I hope this helps.

Sorry to hear about what you're going through.

First of all, I would like to congratulate you on getting the credit score up and having the gall and guts to support your family. Not many people would have what it takes to step up to the plate and take the bull by its horns.

With regards to your current situation, you know, your husband sounds exactly like my father...and personally, I don't like my Dad but that's another story.

Anyway, being that it was YOU who has gotten your family the opportunity to actually have a mortgage, I think he should trust you and your abilities.

Any relationship should be a give and take...and if anything should ever happen, he should be there to support you and actively play a part in supporting the family as well.

Life, like anything, is predictable --- it's just like what you said about kids, "If you wait, you'll never have them."

The way I would do things is, well, if you can juggle a day job and IM on the side, would be great --- I don't know how much you're making in the IM world to be focused on it but I'm assuming a good amount.

Then again, with the economy these days, you never know when you might need an extra 9-5 as a security blanket and it's tough to get a job these days.

That's just me and how I'd do things. This may sound a tad bit crude but I would go ahead with my plans because had I worked that hard to achieve something, I wouldn't let anyone pull me or hold me back.

After all the work you have done and all the accomplishments you've made, I think the ultimate decision is up to you. It wouldve been nice if he didnt have the whole pull the plug mentality of it but well, people who are afraid to fail never fail because they never try.

Just my two cents. I hope everything works out :-)

Thanks for the support everyone!

We're on the same page now. I mean, I know how I'D feel if he said, "I'm quitting my excellent, high-paying, insurance-providing job to do internet marketing, and don't worry! We'll make it!"

LOL That's a pretty simplified version of things, but you know what I mean...

My husband is a wonderful, open-minded man, and we've weathered SO much in our short 7.5 years together. He has put every bit of confidence in our future in my ability, and being completely honest, I do not know if I would be able to do what he's done.

He supports me 100% and even though both of us are scared out of our wits, each night we lie in bed before we go to sleep and visualize how things will be on our farm. This is a really important part of our mindset. We don't just envision unicorns & rainbows, but we envision picking Asian beetles off our bean plants, and things like that. LOL The reality is...as long as we are doing it together, the "work" is actually the reward.

It always have to been seen from both sides, as alot of people have said, what if you move, leave your job and can't get work there, or something else may happen. And this is what no one wants to think about, whats the neighborhood like for the kids, can they play, will they be safe. Supporting a family means looking at all the crazy things that may happen.

I saw a story the other day that made me think about this thread. The story was talking about how many people are going to back to farm living and selling their goods at farmers markets.

Really when you get right down to it, you'd be surprised what you can grown on a farm that people buy. fruit producing trees, veggies even textile producing trees can really pull in a fair amount of money.

There used to be this asian guy that lived behind me and I dont know what kind of treese he had in his yard, but local asian business people (im guessing they owned restraunts) would come around and pay him 5 bucks for about 10 leaves from the trees. Now considering this was a pretty big tree, and he had a few of them, thats probably a fair amount of money for something you dont really tend all that much.

i see both points of view. you now just think about what he's saying. No-one is right or wrong here. Dammed if you do Dammed if you don't.

I am earning great money yet my cost lof living is soaring......it's scary these days. 10 years ago $2,000 a month was ok.....now it's more like $4,000 to get bye.