My how the perspective changes with time

24 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
This isn't about a candidate - but about how time changes opinions.

On cable news, an anchor just said that it's silly to be discussing "a supposed terrorist group from 40 years ago". He was talking about the Weathermen.

I realized I've heard several people on news shows dismiss this group as if they were an imaginary threat. I understand they are promoting their candidate and don't like this subject mentioned in connection with him. I agree it's probably too late to make a big deal about that connection when it comes to that candidate.

However, I remember the Weathermen - and they weren't "supposedly" at all. They bombed buildings, they killed several people in their terrorist activities (and claimed that the deaths were collateral damage and thus acceptable) and did a huge amount of damage to both private and government property. They allied themselves with the Black Panthers and the Black Liberation group.

Some of them went to prison - some went into hiding for years - and few of them have ever said they truly regretted the fear they caused and the lives they damaged or ended. How strange to see some of the leaders of that group now holding respected posts in large cities (Chicago) and rubbing elbows with top financial and political names. It's surreal to anyone who remembers that group and the vicious and violent acts they committed.

Ain't historical perspective great?

kay
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    You want to see changing perspective......take a look at our present leader's family tree.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[164075].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    yeh but people do change - they grow up - but yeh, you would think the least they could do is apologize for their 'youthful folly'.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[164551].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      I agree it's probably too late to make a big deal about that connection when it comes to that candidate.
      This has been brought up for months. Remember Hillary? People don't care. It was 40 years ago.

      Anyways, Annenberg is a supporter of Mccain. If the McCain camp is so worried about Ayers, maybe they should ask her why they "palled" around with him and gave him all those millions. Maybe even McCain shouldn't take money from her. But of course, it really isn't about Ayers. It's all about McCain being desperate and doing whatever he can to try not to lose. Smearing, lying, having Palin lie, having his wife lie etc...

      McCain has sunk to a new low. He's taking down his whole party with him also. That's the good news.
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[164707].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    This isn't about a candidate - but about how time changes opinions.


    <snip>

    I agree it's probably too late to make a big deal about that connection when it comes to that candidate.

    Kay, if this bothers you, I suggest you look into Palin's association with Joe Vogler's Alaskan Independant Party, as well as some of her other lunatic fringe right-wing associates:
    Sarah Palin's radical right-wing mentors | Salon News

    She's been associated (but not a member) of the secessionist organization the Alaskan Independant Party, even speaking to the organization THIS YEAR. But, her husband, the "first dude' was a member for 7 years.

    Here's Vogler thoughts about the USA:
    "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government...and I won't be buried under their damn flag!"

    "I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."


    And this:


    "My government is my worst enemy. I'm going to fight them with any means at hand."

    This was former revolutionary terrorist Bill Ayers back in his old Weather Underground days, right? Imagine what Sarah Palin is going to do with this incendiary quote as she tears into Barack Obama this week.

    Only one problem. The quote is from Joe Vogler, the raging anti-American who founded the Alaska Independence Party.Inconveniently for Palin, that's the very same secessionist party that her husband, Todd, belonged to for seven years and that she sent a shout-out to as Alaska governor earlier this year. ("Keep up the good work," Palin told AIP members. "And God bless you.") " The Palins' un-American activities | Salon
    Signature
    Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
    Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[164725].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Patrician
      Thank you for pointing this out. I have new respect for her. I guess she is not just a media darling airhead after all.

      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I suggest you look into Palin's association with Joe Vogler's Alaskan Independant Party, as well as some of her other lunatic fringe right-wing associates:
      Sarah Palin's radical right-wing mentors | Salon News
      I think alot of lunatic middle of the road average Americans can relate to this guy totally right now.

      Here's Vogler thoughts about the USA:
      "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government...
      WTF is lunatic about lowering taxes and keeping our right to bear arms? The crooks can.

      ...and secession for that matter doesn't sound like a bad idea either apparently, to numerous states...

      Of course everybody is a lunatic that is not left-wing socialist.

      I draw the line however on anything racist and for that reason ALONE I can't say I would 'bond' with these militia-minded folks.
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[165480].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    I've never heard of the Weathermen before besides those guys who forecast the weather on tv.
    Signature

    siggy taking a break...

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[164733].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I don't CARE about how this applies to any damned candidate. I'm tired of BOTH the DEM and REPUB candidates and bored by their supporters and opponents on both sides.

      Before starting to argue again for your pet candidate or against the person you think is my candidate - trying reading what I wrote.

      It doesn't bother me. I don't think it's relevant to ANY candidate today - but I do think it is interesting how 40 years can change the view of this group. When it was happening (the bombings, riots, killings, robberies) the public thought members of the Weathermen would be in jail or on the run for the rest of their lives. Instead, many became part of the establishment they hated so much.

      Annoyed Girlfriend - It was an interesting time.

      Weatherman (organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

      and the group they identified with

      Black Liberation Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
      ***
      Live life like someone left the gate open
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[164762].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I don't CARE about how this applies to any damned candidate. I'm tired of BOTH the DEM and REPUB candidates and bored by their supporters and opponents on both sides.

        Before starting to argue again for your pet candidate or against the person you think is my candidate - trying reading what I wrote.
        Kay,

        I suggest YOU read what you wrote. You may have intended to make your post "nonpartisian", but that's not how it really ended up.

        I'll repost my snippet/quote from your initial post:

        This isn't about a candidate - but about how time changes opinions.

        <snip>

        I agree it's probably too late to make a big deal about that connection when it comes to that candidate.
        "That candidate" is clearly a reference to Obama. And despite your claim in your first sentence that this isn't about one cadidtate, the other sentence your wrote contradicts your first point...And since you made a reference to one candidate, I made one to the other side, in the interest of "fair and balanced".
        Had you left out the sentence refering to "that candidate", I wouldn't have posted the comments I did.

        Instead of scolding me and telling me how I am to respond to your post, I suggest next time if you want to make a post that is truly unbiased, you don't reference one candidate or the other. And if you do, expect a rebuttal, because if someone else doesn't post one, I will.
        Signature
        Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
        Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[164901].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author espacecadet
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[165230].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Who gives a damn? A lot of the anti-establishment, pot smoking hippies are our esteemed leaders today. That's basically what she's talking about. Time changes everything.

      In so many cases, the way we think when we are young is very different from how we think when we grow up and learn more than we knew. We were told to not trust anyone over 30, but then we learned that the way to change the system is from within, not from the outside.

      You can accomplish a lot more by being one of those who tell the National Guard where to point their guns than being the ones the guns are pointed at. (Kent State, anyone?)
      Thanks! You said it better than I could.

      Kurt - I did mention a candidate in the hope that the subject wouldn't revert to that as my musing really had nothing to do with the food fight of the candidates. It was my way of saying "I know charges are being made against this person - but that's not my point".

      kay
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
      ***
      Live life like someone left the gate open
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[165473].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    I am sure it the comment "that one" made by McCain and the comment "that candidate" that touched a raw nerve here.
    Signature

    Do not get between a wombat and a chocolate biscuit; you will regret it dearly!

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[165483].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author espacecadet
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[165502].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
      Originally Posted by espacecadet View Post

      I forgot where I seen it today (I was doing a lot of Google-ing...) but I read that Arizona has already told the feds that if they institute martial law, Arizona will seceed from the union.

      I hope it's true.

      It is. I saw it too and will post a link when I find it again...(Funny that's McCains neck of the woods isn't it?)

      Oh, and it mentioned that's along with 34 other states. I'd be interested in seeing THAT list too if you find it before I do...

      Oh...here it is.

      Find Freedom at www.FreedomsPhoenix.com

      Oh, and thats 34 "like-minded" states...(majority)
      Signature
      Professional Googler
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[165594].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        The bill is from 2000 and I am not sure whether there has been action to revive it or not -- It required 34 other states joining it to ratify it. I don't see anything about that being done - but we can hope. Of course, individual states can still just secede from the union - but if that union is strong enough and decides to conquer that state it's a pretty moot effort.
        Signature

        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[165746].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Sal -

          Wouldn't hold my breath on ratification - remember the ERA?
          Signature
          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
          ***
          Live life like someone left the gate open
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[166610].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    ouch! that link hangs and then crashed my browser!

    must be a lot of people accessing to get early reservations.

    yay! i hope California the left coast is on the list - we can break off like everybody has been predicting for years and float to Japan. I love sushi!
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[165705].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      ouch! that link hangs and then crashed my browser!

      must be a lot of people accessing to get early reservations.

      yay! i hope California the left coast is on the list - we can break off like everybody has been predicting for years and float to Japan. I love sushi!
      Don't ask Ken to drive...
      Signature
      Professional Googler
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[165739].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Phnx
    The threat of secession could be enough to halt any Martial Law plans though. If just one State threatens to pull out, others might gain the courage to join in and the little wannabe Nazis will then shut it about Martial Law. Hopefully.

    As for changed perspectives, well look at the Irish terrorists, both Catholic and Protestant...they're "Statemen" now and all is forgiven. Israels' first Prime Minister, David Ben Gurion was a member of the Stern Gang who bombed the St Davids Hotel (think it was called that). Think Moshe Dyan was a terrorist too before becoming 'respectable'.

    POWs of the Japanese were protesting over here a few years ago when the Emperor came for a pow-wow with our guys. They suffered terribly, and they were rightly pissed off, but they were kinda treated like "oh get over it, we're all friends now". Not easy to do when you are still suffering the effects. They were old and useless to society now, so should just keep quiet.

    As Bob Dylan sang "though they murdered 6 million, in the ovens they fried....the Germans now too have...God on their side".

    Everyone asked to fight a war should refuse on the grounds there is no point because in 20 or 30 years time we'll be pals again, so what's the point of the sacrifice? Makes no sense. Politicians want war, let those gits fight it!
    Signature
    In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. ~ Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900)

    Easy Weight Loss
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[166662].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Good post and good point, Kay.
      Doesn't California have a politician now who was part of the Chicago Seven?
      I think as time goes on the goals sometimes remain the same but the path to achieve those goals change.
      Signature

      Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
      Getting old ain't for sissy's
      As you are I was, as I am you will be
      You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[167145].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Remember them Kay? LMAO (nuff said).

        HCR was written in 2000 because Bush and pals were already getting bills pretty scary bills lined up already right after his first usurpation of the Presidency. The patriot act was already written and just waiting for 9/11 for example. Arizona didn't like it - Oklahoma has already very loudly asserted that they are sovereign and to leave them the hell alone about NAFTA. State governments are getting edgy again and I think in a pinch, many will go against a federal dictatorship.

        Now as far as changing perspective -- if we didn't have some people in charge that had some 1969 protest and spooky associations in top offices both in the WH and corporations, I would just be sitting here wondering who the hell was in those offices. If you went to college during the Nam era, chances are you were at protests of some sort, smoking dope and dropping acid via the frosting of cupcakes handed around at protests. We joined all sorts of groups - look at Green Peace. LOL. Guilty. Have I changed....uh, LOL, not that much but you won't see me chaining myself to a freakin' tree, that's for sure.

        The fact is - I feel more comfortable with people in office that were Rads in the 1960's because when something major comes down, they will be the most likely to revert to their activist natures and do something about it -- hopefully FOR us.

        We can see by some of the shills in office now who never associated with "improper" people, did "improper" things, that they are just too cowardly, naive to the point of stupidity, and too easily intimidated to do much of anything other than what they are told by those with more power than them. They just sold us out on a bail-out that they lacked the skin to prevent. Don't want any more sheep shit to clean up off of the voting floor this time around. We need to hire the good ole fashioned rads who have been on the streets for us and know how to say "NO FREAKIN' WAY".
        Signature

        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[167234].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          If you went to college during the Nam era, chances are you were at protests of some sort, smoking dope and dropping acid via the frosting of cupcakes handed around at protests. We joined all sorts of groups - look at Green Peace. LOL. Guilty. Have I changed....uh, LOL, not that much but you won't see me chaining myself to a freakin' tree, that's for sure.
          Wow, is that the truth. I skipped the acid part - too worried about keeping all my brain cells intact.

          So where are the students now? Why aren't they involved and informed? I've been watching ongoing "street interviews" by a cable network and some have been on college campuses. It's odd how many of those interviewed have no clue about current events or government or anything except how to party-hearty. I know some are concerned and involved but they seem to be the minority and almost invisible.
          Signature
          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
          ***
          Live life like someone left the gate open
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[167388].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


            So where are the students now? Why aren't they involved and informed? I've been watching ongoing "street interviews" by a cable network and some have been on college campuses. It's odd how many of those interviewed have no clue about current events or government or anything except how to party-hearty. I know some are concerned and involved but they seem to be the minority and almost invisible.
            Funny you asked those questions Kay.

            Just yesterday this article was in my local paper...

            Concerns of the day prompt students to get more involved | TimesDaily.com | The Times Daily | Florence, AL
            Signature
            Professional Googler
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[167421].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    The old Greek never did actually say "Time Heals All Wounds".
    Even if he had it would not have been true. What he did say
    was "Time Sooths All Ills" which is closer to the truth. When
    I was 19 I was dragged kicking and screaming into a war I
    didn't understand, didn't agree with and didn't want to fight
    in. When I came home the only thing I hated more than Asians
    was my own government. I could have let that control my
    whole life but fortunately time, education, maturity and the
    lens of perspective altered my viewpoint and allowed me to
    heal. When I was in Times Square with John Lennon, Yoko and
    about 100,000 others protesting the war and a criminal regime
    in Washington I was one person. Today I'm another person. YES,
    thank goodness, pespectives do change.

    T.W.
    Signature
    When you hear someone telling you what YOU can't do, they are usually talking about what THEY can't do.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[167600].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ecoverartist
    I can't wait to see what West Virginia does in the face of a dictatorship or martial law.

    (And I live there!)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[168421].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
      Originally Posted by ecoverartist View Post

      I can't wait to see what West Virginia does in the face of a dictatorship or martial law.

      (And I live there!)

      Just hide in the mountains...it's worked for Bin Laden for years now.
      Signature
      Professional Googler
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[168472].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        There's still a lot of involvement of students, Kay -- they don't have free speech on campuses like we did, so you won't see as much going on there. Small protests here and there but nothing major. Off campus most of the protests have a lot of college kids - but the media is pretty muchly prohibited from airing that kind of thing right now. You'll see most of it on You-Tube, although some on there disappear real fast, too now.

        Now I'm not going to pretend there's the same percentage that are hot and active as there used to be, but I think we are gonna see a change in that real, real soon. Even those who are clueless will follow along as the leaders wrap up more people - the leaders are pretty solid and they will be able to round up the herd and make them stampede, and that's all we really need is the cattle drivers, LOL. That might sound sick, but it's actually pretty spot on.
        Signature

        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[168516].message }}

Trending Topics