Get Out Of Your Ivory Tower

5 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
I am posting this in OT because in complying with the rules of this forum,
this is where this sort of rant belongs. Hell, if we're allowed to bitch about
the government here (when I thought politics and religion were off limits)
then I can certainly bitch about this.

And I'm going to make this short and sweet.

There are people here under the impression that the only way to make money
online is to build a REAL business.

Well newsflash. John Doe who is working 10 hour days, 6 days a week, who
just wants to make a few hundred bucks a month to help pay for that car
he just got, doesn't WANT to build a REAL business. He just wants to do
something that will make him a lousy $20 a day.

Guess what?

There are plenty of things he can do that have NOTHING to do with
building a REAL business that will make him $20 a day.

So for all you marketers living in your ivory tower looking down at the
folk who don't have a business plan and a freakin web site that can take
down the federal government, it's time to take a look at the common man
who's busting his butt to make a living, too damn tired to spend more
than an hour a night, if that, and just wants to make a few bucks.

Not everything has to be about building a REAL business.

End of rant.
  • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
    Steven,

    Before I compose a reply (which I'd like to) are you stating your viewpoint in the hope of discussion or just to vent, not expecting or wanting an open and honest discussion?

    And, before you simply say that you don't care, I have a hunch that somewhere in there, you have a soft spot for a good old heated discussion, as long as it doesn't waste too much time or energy.

    Peter
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[171358].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Peter Bestel View Post

      Steven,

      Before I compose a reply (which I'd like to) are you stating your viewpoint in the hope of discussion or just to vent, not expecting or wanting an open and honest discussion?

      And, before you simply say that you don't care, I have a hunch that somewhere in there, you have a soft spot for a good old heated discussion, as long as it doesn't waste too much time or energy.

      Peter
      Hey Peter, go for it. I am interested in what others have to say. It isn't
      going to change how I feel as I strongly believe that building a REAL
      business isn't what everybody wants to do and it shouldn't be forced on
      them.

      But go ahead, hit me with your best shot.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[171396].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    Steven, I completely agree with you. I was at the WIS in Singapore last year when I almost had a nasty scene with "would be guru" telling me to "build to business". He didn't even know what my business was. In fact at that time, it was as real as anything as I had a shop with 5 full-time staff including a webdesigner and customer service officer.

    He then proceed to tell me to read "Think and Grow Rich" and also sorts of self-motivation books. He also took every opportunity to trash my existing business which he did not know anything. He thought that by earning a 4 figure adsense income (which I did at that time as well), he was on top of world. I told him that I preferred to earn passive income through stocks and other investments. He then said it could be passive like Richard Branson.

    I have not seen such a bull shitting person for a very long time. He seems to be complete brainwashed. The atmosphere was such that it could end at a massive shouting row outside the conference. Sometimes, people just do not realize that different people want different things in life. I don't mind people making constructive criticisms and suggestions about my business as long as they know something about it. But this airhead was randomly dished out critical and disparaging comments without knowing what I did.

    -Derek
    Signature

    Do not get between a wombat and a chocolate biscuit; you will regret it dearly!

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[171405].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Hi Steven,

    I teach folks how to make quick and easy money online all the time. My Dad was thrilled to receive a couple hundred bucks from a website that he was publishing ANYWAY on his own just for fun.

    There's plenty of value in showing someone how to open a Clickbank account and find a good matching affiliate offer to link to. Plenty of value in showing someone how to put AdSense on their site and make it blend nicely and pick up a few bucks every day.

    For many, just having a website that pays for their "internet fun" is fine and dandy. No scorn for those folks.

    But they cannot suffer under the delusion that they are really building a business that way. Some of the things you may see as being a slap on the little man, may simply be an attempt to make sure the newb understands that.

    The best part about Internet Marketing is that you can do it YOUR way, whatever that is. As long as it works for you, great.

    Best,

    Brian
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[171465].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
    Ok Steven,

    First thing, I don't necessarily disagree with you. There are plenty of folk that just want to earn a little extra money and being in, or having a business doesn't interest them. All power to them. If they can earn a few extra bucks from home, after slogging their guts out for ten hours a day, working for the man, well that's great.

    The thing is, whether they like it or not, they have got a business. As soon as they take payment for goods or services, they've made a business transaction and they officially have a stream of income from self-employment. If they were to inform their friendly tax man I'm sure he'd agree with me.

    So they have a business. Agreed?

    Well anyway.

    What they do from there is their business (no pun intended) They can stay as they are, earning a few extra bucks a week to keep the wolf from the door, but the advice that some folk give, (me included and with the best of intentions) is to realise that they have a little business, and as such they can learn from treating it as such.

    I'm never going to suggest that people go out and sign up to some hosting and build hundreds of websites if they don't need it. But if people who have 'lifestyle' businesses were simply to organise themselves properly and adopt some practices 'as if' they had a business, then they'd have even more free time and enjoy increased profits for sure.

    A REAL business is EVERY business, whether they turnover $10,000 a day or $10,000 a year.

    Peter
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[171494].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Peter Bestel View Post

      Ok Steven,

      First thing, I don't necessarily disagree with you. There are plenty of folk that just want to earn a little extra money and being in, or having a business doesn't interest them. All power to them. If they can earn a few extra bucks from home, after slogging their guts out for ten hours a day, working for the man, well that's great.

      The thing is, whether they like it or not, they have got a business. As soon as they take payment for goods or services, they've made a business transaction and they officially have a stream of income from self-employment. If they were to inform their friendly tax man I'm sure he'd agree with me.

      So they have a business. Agreed?

      Well anyway.

      What they do from there is their business (no pun intended) They can stay as they are, earning a few extra bucks a week to keep the wolf from the door, but the advice that some folk give, (me included and with the best of intentions) is to realise that they have a little business, and as such they can learn from treating it as such.

      I'm never going to suggest that people go out and sign up to some hosting and build hundreds of websites if they don't need it. But if people who have 'lifestyle' businesses were simply to organise themselves properly and adopt some practices 'as if' they had a business, then they'd have even more free time and enjoy increased profits for sure.

      A REAL business is EVERY business, whether they turnover $10,000 a day or $10,000 a year.

      Peter
      Know what? I actually agree with what you just said. My definition of
      "real" business was simply as I saw it dictated by those in their ivory
      towers.

      Of course if you're taking in money you're running a business, especially if
      you make more than $600 a year. Trying to tell he IRS differently will get
      you into a lot of trouble.

      But the hard core IMers will disagree and say that the only "real" business
      is one where you...and you can fill in the blanks. And if you're not doing
      that, then you don't have a real business and shouldn't be doing this at
      all. In other words, it's their way or no way.

      That's what I don't agree with, telling others how they should attempt to
      make money, however much or little of it they want.

      Having said that, if somebody comes to me and says, "I need to make
      $20,000 a month" I'm going to tell them honestly that I don't see that
      happening by writing an article a day and putting up a blog. Can it happen
      in time? Well, maybe. Who's to say? But I'm more likely to tell that person
      that if they want to reach that income quickly, they're going to need to
      do some things that are either going to require a substantial amount of time
      to spend or money.

      Now, if that person says to me that all they want to do is pay for their
      car payment each month, I'll advise them differently if they make it clear
      that they don't want to spend lots of time on this.

      It all comes down to what the person wants to do.

      Bottom line: All forms of your "business" are valid and one shouldn't be
      poo-poo'd just because it doesn't conform with your idea of what a real
      business is.

      That's all I'm saying.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[171518].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    Peter, I don't think it is not as simple as that. I think what Steven and I were referring to is that some people that there is only one way to set up a "real business" For example to use a squeeze page to capture names, own info product, own affiliate sales force, have a strong backend where you can sell affiliate products, have upsells, downsells, and crossells, and also a sales funnel system whereby people in the list are exposed to products of every increasing costs. This is what came up strongly at the WIS last year.

    It does't matter that there are other products besides info products and many of these methods do not work well with physical products. I was a regular on an e-commerce forum and nobody relies much on a mailing list or on affiliates. Most of traffic cames from SEO and PPC. The confidence building measures used such as cart functionality, SSL certs, return address, freephone no. and business seals are not normally taught gurus.

    -Derek
    Signature

    Do not get between a wombat and a chocolate biscuit; you will regret it dearly!

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[171641].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      But the hard core IMers will disagree and say that the only "real" business
      is one where you...and you can fill in the blanks. And if you're not doing
      that, then you don't have a real business and shouldn't be doing this at
      all. In other words, it's their way or no way.
      Of course, the irony is that some IMers have made a "real" business simply out of claiming to show others how to start a "real" business

      There are many people who have long-held hobbies and are content to merely learn how their pursuits can be financed by a few IM adjustments.

      Others look upon internet marketing as some may view a flutter on the horses; just an enjoyable way of risking a couple of bucks for a potential profit.

      Neither group is looking at IM as a "business".

      Obviously, anyone wanting to support themselves and their family with an online income, would stand a much better chance of success by treating IM as a real business. Just like they would with any other business venture.

      Surely, that much stands to reason.


      Frank
      Signature


      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[171657].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        Of course, the irony is that some IMers have made a "real" business simply out of claiming to show others how to start a "real" business

        There are many people who have long-held hobbies and are content to merely learn how their pursuits can be financed by a few IM adjustments.

        Others look upon internet marketing as some may view a flutter on the horses; just an enjoyable way of risking a couple of bucks for a potential profit.

        Neither group is looking at IM as a "business".

        Obviously, anyone wanting to support themselves and their family with an online income, would stand a much better chance of success by treating IM as a real business. Just like they would with any other business venture.

        Surely, that much stands to reason.


        Frank

        Absolutely 100% in agreement. But for the guy just looking to pay off
        a $350 a month car loan, a "real" business isn't needed. And if he's
        already putting in way more hours than he wants at his "Job" a real
        business is the last thing he probably wants, even if, ironically, it would
        allow him to quit his job.

        But that's everybody's choice to make and it's not for us to impose our
        beliefs on them.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[171685].message }}

Trending Topics