I would just like to state that the taxman can bite me

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Right on my pink butt.


That is all.
  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    What would you consider a fair federal tax rate??


    btw...

    There was no federal income tax until 1913 and of course it's just a coincidence that 1913 was the year the fed reserve was born.

    but anyways back to my question?


    TL
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    tl,

    40% of the US gets a tax PAYMENT!(not rebate, or credit, but PAYMENT) THAT certainly isn't fair.

    Frankly, I think we should just scrap ALL state/local sales tax and the IRS, and replace it with a FEDERAL sales tax that is low, and has a limit WRITTEN INTO THE LAW!

    Besides, if there is inflation, people make more, or more people need services, the amount collected would AUTOMATICALLY increase, so there is no reason for any adjustment. The poor would buy fewer things, so less tax would be collected from them. The rich would buy more things, and more tax would be collected. OH YEAH, costs would go down because no need for massive audits, IRS quarters, tax forms, tax accountants/attorneys, etc...

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      tl,

      40% of the US gets a tax PAYMENT!(not rebate, or credit, but PAYMENT) THAT certainly isn't fair.

      Frankly, I think we should just scrap ALL state/local sales tax and the IRS, and replace it with a FEDERAL sales tax that is low, and has a limit WRITTEN INTO THE LAW!

      Besides, if there is inflation, people make more, or more people need services, the amount collected would AUTOMATICALLY increase, so there is no reason for any adjustment. The poor would buy fewer things, so less tax would be collected from them. The rich would buy more things, and more tax would be collected. OH YEAH, costs would go down because no need for massive audits, IRS quarters, tax forms, tax accountants/attorneys, etc...

      Steve
      I heard...

      The only reason we don't have a national property tax is because the 3rd prez had it written into the constitution.

      - I'd like to see the numbers regarding a national sales tax.

      Do you have any???

      - I also heard that 47 percent of the adult population pay no taxes at all.

      * The elderly, the extreme poor, who else?? does anybody know??



      - Isn't the national average for those that pay taxes about 28% for the feds?


      TL
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        I heard...

        The only reason we don't have a national property tax is because the 3rd prez had it written into the constitution.

        - I'd like to see the numbers regarding a national sales tax.

        Do you have any???

        - I also heard that 47 percent of the adult population pay no taxes at all.

        * The elderly, the extreme poor, who else?? does anybody know??



        - Isn't the national average for those that pay taxes about 28% for the feds?


        TL
        Apparantly, the 47% figure is tainted! 7% pay NO tax! 40% get a PAYMENT! The other 53% pay tax! BTW according to intuit, I pay over TWICE the national average for my income!!!!!!

        IS THAT FAIR!?!?!? My income tax was affected by an apparent $7,000 INCREASE because I didn't want to throw it into that PIT and had problems because of a change to lower costs in trying to comply with the stupid federal requirements. So the FED caused my circumstance to change so the FED gets thousands more!

        Why don't they just rob me at GUN POINT!?

        BTW I FINALLY got that garbage fixed TODAY, of course, the money is ALREADY LOST.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          IS THAT FAIR!?!?!?
          Is it "fair" that the poor and low-income people make up an disproportionate percentage of our military and that the wealthy aren't volunteering to do their share at an unprecedented rate?

          Why should only people with little money volunteer to protect their country? Why shouldn't the rich also put their lives on the line? Since when is "partiotism" supposed to be divided over income lines?

          The upper class simply isn't doing their fair share in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the trend is getting worse.

          If politicians and rich folks had kids going to war, they probably wouldn't go to war as quickly. Maybe the "lower" classes need to start pushing for a draft if the rich keep bitching about taxes...That'll scare the hell out of all the rich kids. And the reserve won't get them out of war in today's world.
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          • Profile picture of the author Andie
            I remember when W first called this one, I was just SURE his girls were as old as the other daughters that were getting sent :/
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            Is it "fair" that the poor and low-income people make up an disproportionate percentage of our military and that the wealthy aren't volunteering to do their share at an unprecedented rate?

            Why should only people with little money volunteer to protect their country? Why shouldn't the rich also put their lives on the line? Since when is "partiotism" supposed to be divided over income lines?

            The upper class simply isn't doing their fair share in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the trend is getting worse.

            If politicians and rich folks had kids going to war, they probably wouldn't go to war as quickly. Maybe the "lower" classes need to start pushing for a draft if the rich keep bitching
            about taxes...That'll scare the hell out of all the rich kids. And the reserve won't get them out of war in today's world.
            Didn't you hear? We DON'T have the draft!

            Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Who are these people paying absolutely no taxes and getting a payment???

    The poor, the elderly, corporations ???

    Who are they?

    What is their financial situation???



    TL
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Who are these people paying absolutely no taxes and getting a payment???

      The poor, the elderly, corporations ???

      Who are they?

      What is their financial situation???



      TL
      When I was married we got all the state and federal income tax back we had paid thru the year and the earned income credit for 3 kids.
      So in that since we didn't pay income tax and got a payment.
      Now I still get a refund even filing single because I can itemize my deductions, but I don't get it all back anymore.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        When I was married we got all the state and federal income tax back we had paid thru the year and the earned income credit for 3 kids.
        So in that since we didn't pay income tax and got a payment.
        Now I still get a refund even filing single because I can itemize my deductions, but I don't get it all back anymore.
        Technically, a partial refund is STILL a payment, since you are simply paying less than the average non itemizer would. I paid a LOT, and more than average, but I STILL got over $6000 back. Still, I paid a lot more than that for the year.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    It is the ungodly rich that don't pay taxes - and many corporations are now avoiding them with their outsourcing and off-shoring BS. Welfare recipients pay no tax. I can't remember if SS income is taxed or not- but that money WAS a tax in the first place so it's not really untaxed income no matter what way we look at it. If it's taxed now it's a double tax.

    I think Steve is right on with the Nat'l sales tax, but there should be state taxes as well - no state should be dependent on allowing the Federal Government to gain control of their sovereignty by being obliged to them for money. If States can operate on their own without Federal intervention beyond what the Constitution allows we'd find our system starting to revert to what it was meant to be.

    Idaho is going to start processing their own silver soon - they've been outsourcing processing overseas. The silver they produce will be on sale to the public at daily silver prices - and ID citizens are going to be allowed to pay any Government fees with that silver valued at the daily silver rate. Seems like at least one state which has an alternative (ID is a world leader in silver) to being held hostage to accepting illegal law in exchange for funding is doing something about it. The move will also create at least 1000 more jobs in that state. RIGHT ON, ID. The one state that I write letters to legislators to thank them for a good job.
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    Sal
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      It is the ungodly rich that don't pay taxes - and many corporations are now avoiding them with their outsourcing and off-shoring BS. Welfare recipients pay no tax. I can't remember if SS income is taxed or not- but that money WAS a tax in the first place so it's not really untaxed income no matter what way we look at it. If it's taxed now it's a double tax.

      I think Steve is right on with the Nat'l sales tax, but there should be state taxes as well - no state should be dependent on allowing the Federal Government to gain control of their sovereignty by being obliged to them for money. If States can operate on their own without Federal intervention beyond what the Constitution allows we'd find our system starting to revert to what it was meant to be.
      I always try to make it CLEAR. NO STATE or local sales taxes! Just ONE tax paid to the federal government, with maybe a 4-5% holdback for the states.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Idaho is going to start processing their own silver soon - they've been outsourcing processing overseas. The silver they produce will be on sale to the public at daily silver prices - and ID citizens are going to be allowed to pay any Government fees with that silver valued at the daily silver rate. Seems like at least one state which has an alternative (ID is a world leader in silver) to being held hostage to accepting illegal law in exchange for funding is doing something about it. The move will also create at least 1000 more jobs in that state. RIGHT ON, ID. The one state that I write letters to legislators to thank them for a good job.
      WOW, maybe it can catch on as a national currency.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    I agree with Hey Sal on the state tax verses only a federal sales tax issue.

    States shouldn't have to grovel to the feds for funds etc.

    About the silver in Idaho...

    That's a good state gov policy.

    TL
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

    Right on my pink butt.


    That is all.
    That is some mixed imagery, that on one hand makes me a tad nauseous, and on the other, I'd kinda like to see that one.
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    Sal
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  • Profile picture of the author Andie
    And the taxpayer's money goes to such useful purposes and needs..
    Our dollars at work

    Taxpayers foot State Department's stiff liquor bill - Washington Times:
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Andie View Post

      And the taxpayer's money goes to such useful purposes and needs..
      Our dollars at work

      Taxpayers foot State Department's stiff liquor bill - Washington Times:
      That is APPALLING, BUT..... several guys here did something that could be considered worse. ONE, after raising taxes in MA, etc... took a GOVERNMENT CAR into New Hampshire WHICH, was AGAINST the law, He ALSO drove a HUGE distance, considering, to buy booze! When a TAXPAYER asked him what he was doing, he told the taxpayer to "Mind your own G8 D* f* business"! It was more the taxpayers business than his since he forced people to pay more tax, and then used a car(paid for by taxpayers) and GAS(paid for by tax payers), to avoid the tax(he got through telling the tax payers THEY had to pay).

      BTW new hampshire has NO sales tax, so many in MA go there to buy stuff TAX FREE!

      Frankly, those people have no reason to really travel like that, so they shouldn't even get a car. Imagine how much THAT could save us, and help the environment.

      Anyway, he may have cost the government over $100 to evade that sales tax! If he got into an accident, and killed someone, the cost could be THOUSANDS and a DEATH! To save SALES TAX! INCREDIBLE!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Andie
    All you have to do is look over the history of all the perks, raises, exemptions and the level of pure wastefulness in our elected 'representatives' to see why we have what we do now.
    Self-awarded at that....not as if us 'common' folks ever voted on congressional/senate job benefits, raises or all their required 'luxuries'.
    lately i just think...my kids are screwed no matter what they do if things don't get changed bigtime.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

    Right on my pink butt.


    That is all.
    Michael, you'd better make sure your shots are up to date first...
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    I would just like to state that the taxman can bite me
    The trouble with that staenent is that the taxman can bite you, and probably will.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    I've always thought the best way to handle taxes was to institute a flat federal sales tax on everything over a certain dollar amount. Say, $20. Whenever something is taxable, the tax is included in the displayed price.

    So if nothing you buy costs more than $20, you pay no taxes.

    But if you buy a bunch of expensive crap, you pay a lot in taxes.

    If you want to pay zero taxes, you can do that. Just never buy anything that costs more than $20. You can live a perfectly reasonable life that way.

    But at the end of the year, there's no such thing as a tax refund. There's no such thing as a credit. There's no such thing as a deduction. What you paid is what you paid. End of story.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      I've always thought the best way to handle taxes was to institute a flat federal sales tax on everything over a certain dollar amount. Say, $20. Whenever something is taxable, the tax is included in the displayed price.

      So if nothing you buy costs more than $20, you pay no taxes.

      But if you buy a bunch of expensive crap, you pay a lot in taxes.

      If you want to pay zero taxes, you can do that. Just never buy anything that costs more than $20. You can live a perfectly reasonable life that way.

      But at the end of the year, there's no such thing as a tax refund. There's no such thing as a credit. There's no such thing as a deduction. What you paid is what you paid. End of story.
      And we keep leaving out the best part! The tax would be related to GDP! If the US fails, the GOVERNMENT fails! THAT is the way it SHOULD be! If they cause US to go broke, THEY go broke, etc....

      Maybe THEN they will plan expenses right. HECK, one party recently started crowing how a bill got passed, with BI partisan support by the way, EVEN though it broke the promise of one party that crowed about how the other party gave up in their attempt to help with the promise. Translation? Unemployed people just UNNECCESSARILY cost the employed people and their descendants money because government didn't want to make ANY cuts, but extended their unemployment!

      I'm not actually blaming anyone, other than government in general, and just stating fact.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Most of the Europeans pay a lot more in taxes than US people do.

    One of the main reason lots of famous Brits are becoming US citizens is the high taxes over there.

    TL
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Most of the Europeans pay a lot more in taxes than US people do.

      One of the main reason lots of famous Brits are becoming US citizens is the high taxes over there.

      TL
      THREE ********MAJOR********* differences! Let's take denmark as an example, since they pay a LOT of taxes, and I know something about them. I just HAPPENED to have discussed this with some danes, IN DENMARK, in 1989! 8-)

      1. They do NOT pay to really protect OTHER countries, etc...., and don't have a heavy influx of aliens, etc....

      2. Their government gives them something for the taxes. Just look at the streets! CLEAN, well ordered, the crossing lights I saw actually beep so you can cross the street EVEN if you are BLIND! The freeways have bricks setup to wake drivers up if they hit them. It was almost a DECADE before I saw anything like that in the US. The cities seem more like the rural areas here(nice, quiet, friendly), and they have an advanced infrastructure, unlike MOST parts of the US. You could travel all over europe for a veritable SONG! In fact, there might be some that do that LITERALLY.

      3. Their minimum wages are HIGHER!!!!!!!!! HECK, NO state in the US ***NOW*** has minimum wages as high as denmark had THEN! In fact, even AFTER their taxes, danes THEN got paid more than US people did! In fact, that would probably be true today. I think WITH taxes their wages worked out to about $5.50/hour. Right now, the highest minimum wage is like $8.55 WITHOUT taxes! Today, on the radio, I heard one person say she had $300 deducted from her $800 check and that is over 37%. OK, let's be VERY fair. That means they get $5.39 an hour(TODAY IN US). That is LESS than the 5.50(1989 in DENMARK).

      OK, YOU GOT ME! We WEREN'T talking dollars. I converted THEN! As I recall, I got a favorable rate. I forget the EXACT rate. I KNOW it was BETTER than 6. So 5.50 would be WORST CASE 33 krone. OK, let's get SNIPPY! Denmark ALSO cares more about its currency! TODAY it is 5.48178. OK, that 1989 wage is now BETTER than $6.01 USD! And that is AFTER taxes!

      BTW I was told they had a 55% tax rate, and supposedly one of the highest anywhere! SURE they have VAT taxes, AND sin taxes, but a little 18 krone bus(less than $3USD at the time) would take you to Germany to shop with lower vat taxes, and NO sin taxes!

      BTW the US embassy says the minimum wage is now 20% higher than what I was told! So the $6.01 just became $7.21!

      Living in Denmark - U.S. Embassy Copenhagen, Denmark

      GRANTED, ours went up about 48%, in the same amount of time, but we ARE talking minimum, and ours is STILL lower as far as purchasing. And did I say? HECK, let's go to the embassy site again...

      Income tax in Denmark, however, is high by international standards, and ranges from 45% to a high 64%.

      The flat-rate VAT in Denmark is 25%. Major exemptions from VAT are rents, medicine and newspapers.

      The cost of living in Denmark is considerably higher than in the United States. Copenhagen is among the five most expensive cities in the world.
      Frankly, I trust denmark more than the US. BTW there ARE a lot of things that can be done to cut costs, etc... It isn't THAT bad. HECK, I wish I could get from CA to AZ as easily as from denmark to switzerland.

      Steve
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