Revealing letters is one reason Thomas Jefferson burned as much of his stuff as possible.


TL

The same was speculated about Pasteur. I'm sure women are responsible for a lot of advancements but will never be known because they had to put them out via husbands. Society raged against us if we had the audacity to show any intelligence that might surpass the average male. We used to be livestock, ya know. About 30 years ago a husband could beat a wife senseless and if the cops were called in they would walk the guy around the block to "cool him down". Period. You still hear some guys rage because we "took all the jobs" and "everything was fine until women started working". They completely forget that the gold standard was dropped about that time most of us went to work and don't always notice that THEY couldn't support a wife on what they make. We were supposed to love being servants.

Women are responsible for the smelting of metal. But nobody seems to realize that we are responsible for changing the whole face of civilization.

We were worshiped through most of human history. It's only been about 1500 to 2000 years that we have been seen as a sub-species. There are still places in the world today where a woman will be slaughtered just for upsetting a man's ego. But this is also a time that brute force no longer can keep women in homes in most places - black eyes and broken arms are no longer a socially sanctioned method of keeping power in most places any more. And women are educated - and those that are can compete without problems - women are learning to use weapons and defend themselves and a man can no longer feel completely safe when he decides a woman might make a great victim just because she looks a tad frail.

People worry about racism. LOL - what would the resulting war look like if all the women in the world spoke at once and said - No more sex, no more babies until...... You would see the biggest blood bath this world has known because a world of men wouldn't be willing to relent to having to behave like humans to get what they see as our "purpose" to give.

And you "ethnic" guys? Never tell a woman she doesn't know what it's like to have people prejudiced against you. Those of us who are a bit older know what it is like to be denied the right by husbands to hold a job, have had jobs where the boss expected us to put out for if he found us attractive, and remember when husbands expected you to get their "permission" to leave the house or spend a dime.

Ken asked me a question privately, and I thought others may be wondering the same thing. So here is the question [redacted] and my response to it. Basically, he just asked why I said what I did in my last post.
Ken, I appreciate your candor in asking, but am not afraid to discuss this issue publicly, divorced from the politics, of course. And Ken - I am adding a bit more than I responded to you.

That was a comment directed at no in particular "ethnic" group of men, but addressed to all. I said it because of all the times throughout my life, while in sociological discussions with men of varied ethnicity I have been told "but you don't know what it's like to be on the receiving end of discrimination." I am told that because I was raised in a white dominated society and they just assume that whites don't understand the other end of the power chain.

I have never heard a related statement from a woman - regardless of her
ethnicity.

Your post about Einstein's reputation possibly being attached to the womn in his life, just seemed related enough. I know a lot of achievements women have made that men couldn't.........Nellie got through hundreds of miles of blizzard to save a town in Alaska.......back in the late 1800's. No man was able to get through, but Nellie did. Another woman who packed supplies out to miners in Colorado saved that mine of big strong men during a blizzard. A woman developed the first gold concentrator........... They were resourceful enough to be the people in the gold towns who really made out like bandits - miner's didn't often have wives, and so the women marketed services - laundry, food, and they made a pile. Paul Revere never even finished his ride, he broke his leg and was captured early on.......it was a woman who finished it, but they refused her history coverage because she was out in shocking array at the time - she saved our people in a nightgown for God's sake. And it was women who first smelted metal way back in archaic history.

Women have proven to be resourceful and behind the scenes leaders throughout history, yet we have been actually told in some places and at some points of history that we needed to not claim our victories publicly. So people read history, and they think of us as subordinate to the great male.

And that whole crematorium just makes me want to hurl.

Just sayin...........

My grandmother saved what little she could over several years with the local co-operative. Although the account was in her name my grandfather went along there and withdrew all of the money to buy a horse. She knew nothing about it until afterwards.

Well, I guess we can ask TL since he must be hundreds of years old to know such a thing!

Heysal,

Pasteur's discoveries have been attributed to an assistant that was careless. THAT was embarassing. Would the fact that a female did that be any more so?

Are Women REALLY responsible for the smelting of metal?

And women, in a way, are worshiped even TODAY. That is not to say they are REALLY goddesses, have special intelligence, etc....

Frankly, European cultures ALWAYS frowned on men berating or hitting women. Unfortunately, it was a GIVEN that someone would place the burden of chastity on women. Granted, some europeans had chastity belts, and the bible asked women to honor it and the old testament implied a harsh punishment was OK. It took the koran and shria law to take it past that.

Could men EVER feel REAL safe? Heck, just yesterday I watched a comic complaining about how slang didn't make sense and he spoke of p**sy vs. Ba**s! Well, you can kind of read between the lines. If not, then look at the fight scene with all the aliens at the deneuralizer in MIB II! Yep, a CRUEL trick of nature. Male humans are among the few male mammals that have such a handicap. 8-( Then again, women aren't so secure against similar things. so hopefully they'll consider that more if they don't have a LEGITIMATE reason.

As for the rest, I think everyone knows that, Then again, some women actually take advantage of that.

But YEAH, your statement about racism is really true. Perhaps almost EVERYONE has encountered some *ism. And YEAH, women have enountered it as well, THAT is why they have been declared a "protected class". Under the law, women, even WHITE women, enjoy many of the privileges given NON WHITES. Some women even own companies because their husbands signed the business over so it could get government contracts.

But you'll note nobody here has said women can't do this or that, And I am not. I find your statement about paul revere odd, but who am I to dispute it. GRANTED paul revere was only a smith that supposedly worked with softer metals, but he was probably fairly strong, and I DO find it odd.

And Madame curie noticed xrays. GRANTED, she treated it in a foolish manner, but men can't claim to be perfect either. That simple observation did a LOT of good for people. IMAGINE people spared surgery, or that had their bones set right SIMPLY because of her little discovery.

And there are MANY reasons why einstein may have shined with a wife, even if she were pretty stupid. Maybe he was VERY happy! Maybe he needed extra money. Maybe she somehow encouraged him to do it or send it out.

And YEAH, every presidential ticket with a woman has lost BUT, most non presidential primaries with women in the last week WON! and over 40% of the supreme court are WOMEN!

I STILL say there are many reasons to not have women on the front lines, etc.... but they are now CLOSE.

Steve

So...what in the hell is this whole discussion about? Women are equal to or even better than men?

Ok...great now that we have that cleared up, what else can we discuss.

Woman are DIFFERENT than men! It's just that simple. I love my mother and my sisters and my wife and my daughter. Yet not one of them will ever become the international cow tipping champion...and who the hell cares?

I read Walter Isaacson's biography of Einstein last year. Regardless of the contributions of the women in his life, the major accomplishments would not have come fruition without the man himself.

Let's not diminish or dilute Einstein's contributions to this world by bringing into play the sociological circumstances that were beyond his control.

Remember...women are DIFFERENT! This is a GOOD thing.

She shared the physics prize with her husband in 1903, in 1911 she won the chemistry Nobel by herself for the discovery of polonium and radium. She is the only person to ever win a Nobel prize in two different sciences.

Regarding Steve's comment about her treating radiation foolishly, that is a grotesque statement. It was Curie who invented the word "radioactivity". Before her work no one on Earth had any knowledge of the danger.

Discrimination of ANY kind is wrong. We look back and think, how could it be possible that people were that thick. Yet the same is happening today and as usual most people are fine with it.

Most problems in the past still a problem today. I like the quote behind every successful man, there is a woman.

Mr. Seasoned said...

Well, I guess we can ask TL since he must be hundreds of years old to know such a thing!

I'm not sure what he's referring to.


The only thing I have said in this entire thread is...

Revealing letters is one reason Thomas Jefferson burned as much of his stuff as possible.

Ken opined that the letters of Einstein revealed that he wasn't such a cool guy and that that's why I said what I said.

Because...

I've read in a number of histories over the years that Mr. Jefferson burned much of his personal correspondence because...

... it would reveal parts of him that would be thought of by many as unflattering.

I suspect a lot of what was burned related to his personal feelings about some of the founding fathers, the first president's politics and details regarding his fight to establish a political party.

Jefferson and James Madison founded and led the Democratic-Republican Party.

I did not comment on Einstein or the history of women etc.


So I'm not sure what Mr. Seasoned is talking about.



TL

I think it's possible to credit Mileva with being instrumental to Einstein's success without diminishing Einstein's own brilliance. Whatever your position on that, this is a woman who disappeared under the shadow of her husband and may have been just as deserving of recognition.

Lawrence, Lawrence, Lawrence...

You're slipping, buddy. There is no mention in that link of the
person to whom I referred in my post above yours. Yes, I read
the article and it was nothing new to me except the bit about
Godel's conversation at Princeton. And maybe I did read that
somewhere because I've read quite a bit about Einstein, but it
was all a long time ago.

So... I will reassert my comments about a mathematician named
either Thompson, or Thomson, who played a significant role in
the formulation of e = mc(2).

But no worries, I'll leave my 'thanks' there for you.

I did not read all the comments. So if it's in the comments, then let
me know.

Thanks Lawrence for the info because it led me to the following link.
Check it out if you're interested...

It's not a revisionist site of the kind that you mentioned. But it does
have pretty interesting information about the history of relativity. At
least it's interesting to me.

Who Invented Relativity?

Well I'll tell you, I'm not exactly sure what to believe. This must
truly be a massive conspiracy that has influenced every book, or
however many that have been published about him - I do not know.

I'm not arguing one way or the other. And I don't really care, either.

I'd be interested to know about a book with more conclusive information.
Something other than the person in question attesting to his own abilities.

Sorry, but that's not enough.

Okay, I don't get it. Saying that his wife was actually responsible for the theories may discredit Einstein personally, but it doesn't discredit the theories themselves. So who would have such a personal voova against Einstein that they would destroy the man even though the theories would hold the same wieght no matter who had forwarded them?

No one is saying she's responsible. Maybe had some kind of contribution,
in some way... to what degree.. who knows.

But it seems there has been a conspiracy going on for a very long time
to discredit him. Has to do with religion, etc, etc...

“The absence of evidence is no evidence for absence.”
- Carl Sagan, physicist


Mileva Einstein-Marić | Biographies

For those who may have an interest to know more... because I sure do.

If anyone wonders about my agenda, it is to know the truth - nothing more.

Ken Thompson