FIrst off, I don't think ANY human should be tased,
Second, from what I heard about this incident, the women were jaywalking for goodness sake, a "crime overlooked 99.9% of the time.
(Honestly,it doesnt make sense to me that this happened over jaywalking, but thats what I have heard,)
Given that, was the punch excessive force? you're damn right it was. The cop could easily have called for back-up and detained the women that way.
Should the women be punished for their behavior? Again, damn right. They should have taken the ticket without any incident and gone to court where it probably would have been thown out.

Jaywalking??????



Kim's comments are right on.


Thank God officer dude did not pull out his gun or there's a good chance he would have used it.


Where was his backup????



TL

I think they both were wrong. The girl was certainly out of order, but I am sure the officer could have restrained her without punching her in the face.

Just Google it TL and you will find lots of information that syas the same thing, it was about Jaywalking. What scares me is the stance by the police department that the officer did no wrong.

Cop Punches Woman In The Face During Jaywalking Arrest Popular Fidelity Videos

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...king_stop.html

If it matters, the intersection where the incident took place has Seatle's biggest jay-walking problem and there have been a number of pedestrian/car accidents there, so the area was a focus for cops for jay-walking and this wasn't just a cop picking someone out.

I agree with the others, all three are wrong with the cop being "wrongest".

I don't see any problem.

What I do see is a BIG PROBLEM every time someone thinks he/she can push/assault a cop and claim to be the victim.

This was NOT about jaywalking!!!!!!!!!!! If this is what was in the news last night, they were ****STOPPED**** for jaywalking. Apparently, jaywalking is taken VERY seriously in that area. In some areas, the cross walks are almost a feeble request, and a motorist can get CITED for even causing a jaywalker to HESITATE! In other areas, a jaywalker may get a nice fine and, if runover outside of a jaywalk, the driver may not even get cited.

The girls/women ATTACKED the cop who was ONE cop against TWO girls. What do you expect? BTW, as I recall, she was not hurt that much, so he did not hit her HARD.

FURTHER, jaywalking is usually a warning or ticket. Hiting a cop can land you in jail! White/black male/female it is NOT supposed to matter!

Steve

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Yes, it matters if it was about jaywalking.
It would also matter if it was about spitting on the sidewalk.
No one has said the crime itself was not important, but the matter at hand is once again a police officers response went beyond reasonable force for the situation.

If it had been a riot or a violent crime or any number of other scenerios,I would have no problem with it.

This is a crazy video, people really should think before they act. Well, there should be better consequences for these actions. Thanks for sharing!

Some good points there KJ. ( I know you changed your name to Bill, but you will always be KJ to me,lol).
We don't klnow what happened before.
But in my opinion, and this seems to be my opinion alone, and I am ok with that, an officer is to use force as a last resort,and even though the female (I wont call her a lady,she definitely isnt one) deserves something being done to her,this was not a last resort situation,therfore the viloence was in my opinion , excessive.
The office could have detained the suspect with one hand while radioing for backup with the other.

Just for the record, my uncle was a cop and my son in law has applied.I DO have sympathy for decent people of all walks of life.

Just saw this on the news today! But i think both parties are wrong.

Jaywalking should be allowed...who has the right to tell someone how to cross a road! If you get killed you get killed its your choice...nobody is going to blame the cops for it...

But no that makes too much sense and is too easy for this stupid world

I can't quite understand how people are stupid enough to need J walking rules. Just the other day I almost hit someone who walked right out in front of my car, though. It was almost as if they couldn't conceive of the idea that it is not a good idea to walk out in front of a moving vehicle. A few days later I was on a 4WD path and there were cows that acted the same way.

If anything is sad, it's the fact that a fully adult human can't figure out that you don't cross the street when there are cars coming. Should we really be protecting people that stupid?

Would I have nightmares killing someone that idiotic? No. I sure would sweat that I would have ended up in the criminal justice system though - somewhere I don't want to be. That system can be completely bizarre and often proves to be a misnomer. I would have been very irate having to deal with that system because an adult is too stupid to know not to walk out in front of a car.

As far as the girl getting punched in the face - I think that when you hit someone, you give up the right not to be hit. Had he tased her I'd be livid, but he matched force with force so to speak. Someone hits me, I'm going to hit them back, too. What Thom brought up though - looking like a search took place.........if that is the case, the cop might have gotten too feely and caused a problem himself. I've seen that happen before. So, like said - we need to know more.

Ernie - I'm with you on laws. People need to be able to think about what they do. When they become so protected that they start to wander like a herd of cows through streets, it's time to cut loose with the laws and tell them that if they can't and won't take care of themselves that nobody else is going to do it for them. It's gotten to the point people here are complete zombies. The hook themselves to cell phones and don't watch what's going on when they drive, they walk out in front of moving cars, they drive off into the mountains in winter not dressed for it and with no emergency supplies because they have a cell phone -I could go on, but you get the idea. I'm wondering if people with that little survival instinct left are really worth the cost of saving.

Wow - what next - of course there are at least two sides to this incident. Yes, jay walking is illegal, at least everywhere I have lived. I also think the women should not have been confrontational - it didn't have to happen the way it did. However, the totally disagree with the police punching the woman. I didn't see any backup police to help out but I still think the punching could be avoided.

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People who have never been in the police will not know what it is like to be the figure of hate just because of thr uniform you are wearing and the fear you feel when you have to stop people fighting with weapons or you come accross a robbery and you dont know if they are armed.

Police do a very hard and thankless job most of the time

Personally after watching that video she got what she deserved, even after all that went on she still didnt go quietly.

Also the cop didnt know if the crown was going to turn at ay time and help her so i think he did the best he could. The only thing he could have done better was to call for backup

Ernie Lonardo,

You are WRONG! Those rules have existed for THOUSANDS of years, just read the old testament! It talks about punishment and effects for even one that is injured by accident. Present day societies have merely codified that, etc... STILL, if someone thought about it 5-10 thousand years ago and it was a popular enough concern to make it there, you KNOW some feel the same today. If a person gets killed, THEY are out of the picture. THEY have no worries, etc.... But the people that hit them, are perceived to have hit them, etc... have worries that only START then! BTW if a person is hit, it CAN cause extensive damage and even DEATH of others! Death of others usually doesn't happen, but OBVIOUSLY could.

Steve

Chris:

You asked, "Was it too much force?"

I ask, Does a push deserve a punch in the face?
And, When did punching a girl in the face become standard OP for peace officers?

Reminds me of some of the excuses I've heard from spouse abusers....
I won't repeat any of them here, but suffice it to say:
Violence is NOT the way to solve every problem.

Solving violence with violence.... now, that's the American way!!

The Europeans taught that to Native Americans and to
kidnapped and enslaved Africans.

They eventually had to kill off the Native Americans to keep them
from matching force with force.

Nothing much has changed since then.

Mankind is incapable of directing his own step.

Jake

highhopes,

Forgive my ignorance here, I am simply CURIOUS. The UK DOES have some law making unjustifiable searches, and police harassment, illegal, right!?!?

Of course, the US does, and my mother had the same sort of treatment your daughter did. My mother was hit by a big van, her car was totalled, and she was barely lucid. A policeofficer, under risk of life(MY MOTHERS) harassed my mother, and even boarded the ambulance, and continued to HARASS her. He tried to get HER to admit fault though I doubt a reasonable person would accept such a "confession" as she was in shock and being harassed. I would be the FIRST to claim my mother is guilty since she is a bad driver, etc... After seeing the damage though, HER story sounds more plausible. The police report was OBVIOUSLY a complete fabrication too. Apparently, the other group was not really hurt, but my mother was in the hospital.

Steve

Yor story fails to tell a very vital fact...why did the taxi go to the staation in the first place, instead of the destination your daughter requested?

That does make sense, thank you.

I understand that police put their lives on the line, but they know that is part of the job when they take it. The increasingly violent attitude I am seeing, though, is extremely disturbing......not so much this case as she pushed first, but I've seen videos that were much more clear about what was happening and there is A LOT of excessive force being used - especially tasers. There is no right for anyone just because they wear a badge to tase someone when the cop isn't in danger. I've seen people tased just for not moving as fast as ordered to - people tased who are already subdued in handcuffs. The small town cop is being replaced by militia trained soldiers and they don't seem to have much concern about the rights of the citizens. Blackwater trained cops are proving to be more dangerous to citizens than safety for them. That's why filming cops is becoming illegal in some states. Too many are ending up in court for excessive force charges. I would think that is something that should concern every citizen. It's one thing for a cop to turn around and punch someone who is shoving them. That type of reaction can actually be nothing but reflexes for someone trained to defend themself. It's really upsetting to see this type of thing going on so frequently without physical provocation and then lose the right to film them in abusive actions.

Reality check!

We don't have all of the FACTS and we never will.

So, I can sum this debate up in one word...speculation.

Paul,
I have to disagree with this part:

"As far as "excessive force," give me a break. He could easily have twisted her arm, dropped her to the ground on her face, and handcuffed her. With a hostile crowd gathered around, he probably didn't dare expose himself like that. Something the onlookers very likely didn't consider while they were busy adding fuel to the fire.Ayup!"

If had had done what you suggested INSTEAD of punching her in the face, I would have no problem whatsoever with what happened. If he could have easily have done it,why didn't he? That is the prefered action in that situation most of the time.
My opinion is that he didn't because he was as much out of control as the criminal.
Someone used the correct term in an earlier post...PEACE Officer. THey are to uphold the law and to keep the peace. Resorting to street brawling does not constitue keeping the peace but it should constitue excessive force.
My own opinion is that he both should have and could have easily called for backup.

Edit:
I want to add, I live in a relatively low crime area,but one thing the Peace Officers do in the county I live in is travel in pairs,and I mean vehicles,not just officers. I think this does help deter events in my area.

I'm about to do my treatment, when I am done I will watch the vid again, my recollection was that only the women were being rowdy,I didn't notice it in the crowd , but I could be wrong. (I actually am a lot of times).
If I am, I'l come back and say so .

And KJ, from my understanding you can get a flux capacitor on almost every corner in that area if the price is right!

I highly disagree with tasing people, seems a bit stupid right?

As promised, I have finished my treatment and gone back and watch the video in the first post of this thread.
I must say that I spoke out without knowing whats going on apparently because the video in the first thread is about 3 times longer than the video I havd seen.
I had orginally seen a video of this on a different site and started commenting in this thread.
Bad move on my part.
There certainly were a lot more people than I knew about and some most cetainly could have decided to butt in I think.
While I still don't think it merited the action the officer took, the clenched fist hitting of the woman, I can more understand why he may have felt justified doing so.
As I also said earlier in this thread, the women deserve to be punished for their actions/behavior.

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Not to hijack this thread, but before I commented - this thread was right above the "one hit wonders" thread. Am I the only one that finds amusement in these type of things?

So the cops wrong for doing his job?

I say the pedestrians were wrong too then. First for Jaywalking in what seems to be a very populated street, that puts both driver and pedestrian in danger. Second for mouthing off profanity consistently to an officer. Third for her "friend" to jump in and try to "fight" the officer off the one being placed under arrest.

If I was a cop I probably would have done the same, as there are a number of pedestrians surrounding me with one of them coming at me trying to "rough" me up.

I mean think about it, how easily would it have been for all the spectators to jump on the cop and hurt him potentially kill him? Or to simply pull his gun from the holster while he's trying to fight off the others?

"My argument is, if a road is quiet and there is a huge gap in the road why cant i cross it? Why should I walk 200 meters to find the next crossing when its perfectly safe to cross right there and then? I should have that right...without being fined."

Usually in those conditions there isn't a Peace Officer around to ticket you anyways!

Wow, this sure is a busy thread.
First off, jaywalking is a stupid law. Its not even illegal in many countries.
But that's not why she was punched. Should she have been punched? It depends on many circumstances. The fact is, she was hardly a dainty 'lil thing. Judging from the look of her she could probably throw me around a bit! And the punch didn't faze her one bit.
So the officer was having trouble getting her under control. He did what he considered necessary at the time. Cops can't afford to be timid when dealing with situations.
If she had been a tiny thing and got knocked over or even knocked out, well that would be a little different.
Maybe also the reason for the controversy is the fact he was white and she was black? Some people would see it that way. (Mainly blacks) That it was because he was black. But this is hardly Rodney King 2.
Compared to that this is nothing.

People's mind set - Cop are super human hero, they can be hit or slap and other things
Public - weak, if anything happens to them they are the victim.
Lol..

I seriously can't believe how much anti-cop nonsense there is in this thread.

Unbelievable.

Yeah! Screw the cops! With all their strong-arm, anti-liberties tactics! Down with the system!

Until YOU need them.

I watched the video and saw NOTHING wrong with ANYTHING the cops did. Nothing. The VERY SECOND anybody on the scene failed to obey a lawful order, they subject themselves tot he possibility of arrest, and rightfully so.

When I heard a "17 year old girl was punched in the face", I expected to see...

1. A "girl", not TWO WOMEN. In the eyes of the law, they may not be the age of majority, BUT had they committed a capital crime, you can be sure they would be charged as adults.

2. An actual punch. In other words, I expected to see the cop plant his feet, take aim, pull his shoulder back, then let one loose. That didn't happen. It was a reflex.

The reason for the stop is completely meaningless when it comes to the actions of the women on the video.

The cop MAY have called for back up, we don't know. But either way, there was no back up there. There WERE plenty of people, though. Situations like that can get out of hand very quickly.

Watch the video again.

There is a male in blue trying to pull the one woman AWAY from the cop. But she wants to GO AFTER the cop. That alone is enough for his reaction, but there's more.

At about 8 seconds in the woman breaks away from the male in blue, and gets in between the cop and the person he is already trying to fend off.

At about 10.5 seconds, if you can get the video to freeze-frame, you will clearly see that the woman in pink strikes out at the cop. Sorry, but I couldn't get it to freeze to see if an actual connection was made, but that doesn't matter.

After that the cop punches her back and INSTANTLY puts her in a restraining hold. This tells me he fell back on his training and was not reacting in anger. He was protecting himself and subduing a suspect.

Then the woman in the black shirt gets in the middle of that.

The woman in pink backs off, or recoils after being aware she just got what she deserved (depending on how you look at it).

Then the cop does everything he can to NOT use excessive force against the suspect.

It has NOTHING to do with AGE, GENDER or anything else at that point.

Now, all that being said, if I were there I would have done something no one else in the crowd did...asked the office if there was anything I could do to help. I know he would probably say no, but it wouldn't stop me from offering.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but look again, and you will see that the cop used reasonable force and the women were out of line. They WERE breaking the law.

No matter how much some of you people here would like to paint this as a case of police brutality (LAUGH), this isn't a case of some jackbooted thug trying to take out his aggression on innocent people. And if you think it is, then take the blinders off, because your anti-cop bias is clouding your ability to comprehend simple pictures.

All the best,
Michael