17 year old girl punched in the face by a cop

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I dont know about anybody else but I think this silly b*tch got what she deserved, and the other tart should have been tased.

Seriously, why do people think it is okay to not only obstruct a police officer from doing their job, resist arrest, push and verbally abuse an officer?

And that dumbf*ck in the background going "are you serious," what do you think numbnuts?

*End of rant*

What do you think, to much force?

Chris
  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    FIrst off, I don't think ANY human should be tased,
    Second, from what I heard about this incident, the women were jaywalking for goodness sake, a "crime overlooked 99.9% of the time.
    (Honestly,it doesnt make sense to me that this happened over jaywalking, but thats what I have heard,)
    Given that, was the punch excessive force? you're damn right it was. The cop could easily have called for back-up and detained the women that way.
    Should the women be punished for their behavior? Again, damn right. They should have taken the ticket without any incident and gone to court where it probably would have been thown out.
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    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      FIrst off, I don't think ANY human should be tased,
      Second, from what I heard about this incident, the women were jaywalking for goodness sake, a "crime overlooked 99.9% of the time.
      (Honestly,it doesnt make sense to me that this happened over jaywalking, but thats what I have heard,)
      Given that, was the punch excessive force? you're damn right it was. The cop could easily have called for back-up and detained the women that way.
      Should the women be punished for their behavior? Again, damn right. They should have taken the ticket without any incident and gone to court where it probably would have been thown out.
      Um, the cop didn't punch her for jaywalking. There was one cop and a crowd gathering and the cop was pushed. He WAS within his rights. I am so sick and tired of people thinking that cops have no right to protect themselves and that a cop having to take action is always using excessive force! Yes some cops abuse, but I think the majority try to do their job. I think she got what she deserved.
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        You can't be serious. He needed to throw a right overhand punch to the face of a 17 year old girl because he was protecting himself? LOL. There was no "protection" of himself involved here. The cop just lost control of the situation and yes, he did use excessive force.

        Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

        I am so sick and tired of people thinking that cops have no right to protect themselves ...
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      • Profile picture of the author KimW
        Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

        Um, the cop didn't punch her for jaywalking. There was one cop and a crowd gathering and the cop was pushed. He WAS within his rights. I am so sick and tired of people thinking that cops have no right to protect themselves and that a cop having to take action is always using excessive force! Yes some cops abuse, but I think the majority try to do their job. I think she got what she deserved.
        First, I didn't say he punched her for jaywalking. Please reread what I said if thats how you understood it.
        But either way, I think he was way out of line, and I hope he gets reprimanded. As I and others have said earlier, he should have called for back up.
        You wish to think otherwise, your welcome to do so.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Jaywalking??????



    Kim's comments are right on.


    Thank God officer dude did not pull out his gun or there's a good chance he would have used it.


    Where was his backup????



    TL
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      These videos that get so much attention seem to me a sign of a declining civilization. The girl who was "punched" assaulted the cop who was trying to control the other woman - so what's the big problem? I don't care if those two were slapped, punched, tasered or arrested.

      "17 year old girl punched in the face by a cop...."

      Why not

      "cop assaulted by two 17 year old girls...."
      or
      "Crowd cheers as two 17 year old girls fight with cop"

      Until recently, to become famous (or notorious) you actually had to be talented or skilled, be in a highly unusual circumstance or do something quite bad.

      Now the only requirement is to in some way attack a person who stands for "authority" - shout a few f-words as if you just invented the tripe - and then wait for people to find you on youtube and shout with righteous outrage about your "rights".

      What is sad to me is the when you see a few minutes of this stuff - you can go to google and find the same video being discussed on blogs, etc as if it matters.

      Do I care if two rude teenagers attacked a copy verbally and physically and get slapped down? Nope, don't care at all. It's called consequences.

      kay

      Edit: Does it matter if it is about "jaywalking"? If you don't make any attempt to enforce a law, why have he law? If a person with the self-important mentality of those two young women were hit by a car.....they'd be the first to sue the city for not enforcing the laws. That's the reality.
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  • Profile picture of the author fingers4hire
    I think they both were wrong. The girl was certainly out of order, but I am sure the officer could have restrained her without punching her in the face.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Just Google it TL and you will find lots of information that syas the same thing, it was about Jaywalking. What scares me is the stance by the police department that the officer did no wrong.

    Cop Punches Woman In The Face During Jaywalking Arrest Popular Fidelity Videos

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...king_stop.html
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    If it matters, the intersection where the incident took place has Seatle's biggest jay-walking problem and there have been a number of pedestrian/car accidents there, so the area was a focus for cops for jay-walking and this wasn't just a cop picking someone out.

    I agree with the others, all three are wrong with the cop being "wrongest".
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    I don't see any problem.

    What I do see is a BIG PROBLEM every time someone thinks he/she can push/assault a cop and claim to be the victim.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    This was NOT about jaywalking!!!!!!!!!!! If this is what was in the news last night, they were ****STOPPED**** for jaywalking. Apparently, jaywalking is taken VERY seriously in that area. In some areas, the cross walks are almost a feeble request, and a motorist can get CITED for even causing a jaywalker to HESITATE! In other areas, a jaywalker may get a nice fine and, if runover outside of a jaywalk, the driver may not even get cited.

    The girls/women ATTACKED the cop who was ONE cop against TWO girls. What do you expect? BTW, as I recall, she was not hurt that much, so he did not hit her HARD.

    FURTHER, jaywalking is usually a warning or ticket. Hiting a cop can land you in jail! White/black male/female it is NOT supposed to matter!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Yes, it matters if it was about jaywalking.
    It would also matter if it was about spitting on the sidewalk.
    No one has said the crime itself was not important, but the matter at hand is once again a police officers response went beyond reasonable force for the situation.

    If it had been a riot or a violent crime or any number of other scenerios,I would have no problem with it.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Yes, it matters if it was about jaywalking.
      It would also matter if it was about spitting on the sidewalk.
      No one has said the crime itself was not important, but the matter at hand is once again a police officers response went beyond reasonable force for the situation.

      If it had been a riot or a violent crime or any number of other scenerios,I would have no problem with it.
      RIOT
      a public act of violence by an unruly mob
      rioting: a state of disorder involving group violence
      So would two count as a mob? If so, they WERE rioting! Would hitting be called violence? Then they WERE violent. It IS considered a crime to hit a policeman. So I guess you have no problem with it....

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        I would of liked to see what happened prior to the video starting.
        When that video starts the cop and one girl are already engaged, and there is stuff on the hood of the police car which indicates a search may have already taken place. No matter where you are in the US, you don't get searched for jay walking. I know that jay walking was the original offense, but something happened that we ain't seeing.
        The girl that got punched deserved it, if for nothing else then being stupid.
        I mean come on, she was taken away by a bystander and she came back, for what to get arrested?

        I had a lot of run ins with the police from the ages of 15 to 25 and in the beginning I got beat up often by them. Then I learned not to be confrontational with them. Bottom line is if you threaten a cop, they will threaten you right back and a lot harder. If you don't and let them do their job things will normally work out much better for you.
        All those girls had to do was be quiet and let the cop do his job. Worst case would of been a summons and (heaven forbid) no video for us to watch.
        The biggest crime here is the time all of us wasted commenting on this.
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        • Profile picture of the author KimW
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          I would of liked to see what happened prior to the video starting.
          When that video starts the cop and one girl are already engaged, and there is stuff on the hood of the police car which indicates a search may have already taken place. No matter where you are in the US, you don't get searched for jay walking. I know that jay walking was the original offense, but something happened that we ain't seeing.
          The girl that got punched deserved it, if for nothing else then being stupid.
          I mean come on, she was taken away by a bystander and she came back, for what to get arrested?

          I had a lot of run ins with the police from the ages of 15 to 25 and in the beginning I got beat up often by them. Then I learned not to be confrontational with them. Bottom line is if you threaten a cop, they will threaten you right back and a lot harder. If you don't and let them do their job things will normally work out much better for you.
          All those girls had to do was be quiet and let the cop do his job. Worst case would of been a summons and (heaven forbid) no video for us to watch.
          The biggest crime here is the time all of us wasted commenting on this.
          Well Thom, pretty good post and I agree with most of it except this:
          "The biggest crime here is the time all of us wasted commenting on this."

          Im awake, I'm home, disabled and I aint got no life, what else am I suppose to do except stir things up a bit?
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          • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
            I've got two kids that are/have been cops (one is now a school teacher after almost two decades of being in law enforcement).

            What people seem to want to ignore is all the hours these fine folks put on the job dealing with the lower end of society that we take for granted will just be 'handled' for us.

            If you think being in law enforcement is easy, you're dead wrong.

            Before you rush to judgement after seeing only a fraction of what took place you should consider that A. you don't have all the facts, B. you weren't there, C. neither the perps nor the cops should be held to a 'perfect' standard.

            A reasonable standard, perhaps, but expecting tempers to be kept in check during highly emotional situations is niave at best.

            If you haven't walked in that officers' shoes you have no business making judgements. You have no idea how many prior confrontations he may have had that led him take the actions he did. Once an officer allows 'crowd mentality' to dictate the level at which citizens can interfere with their handling of unruly scofflaws things really get ugly.

            ~Bill
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by KimW View Post

            Well Thom, pretty good post and I agree with most of it except this:
            "The biggest crime here is the time all of us wasted commenting on this."

            Im awake, I'm home, disabled and I aint got no life, what else am I suppose to do except stir things up a bit?
            I'm hitting 3 out of 4 of them myself, that's why I tried to stir things up a little
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

              I'm hitting 3 out of 4 of them myself, that's why I tried to stir things up a little
              Same HERE! Today is SAFETY month at delta, and I guess they are trying to be like BP!

              With BP, while they were celibrating the safety record, the well blew up, and they are STILL trying to clean up the mess.

              With DELTA, while they had SAFETY MONTH, they effectively set traps at most of their planes(A dumb idea created by their desire to cut costs and union involvement.). Well, I missed them ALL, until the sunday before last. THAT, coupled with my warfarin, left me unable to walk well. MAN was I shocked to hear that this is safety month. How ironic! I could have died.

              Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author KimW
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        RIOT


        So would two count as a mob? If so, they WERE rioting! Would hitting be called violence? Then they WERE violent. It IS considered a crime to hit a policeman. So I guess you have no problem with it....

        Steve

        LOL Steve.
        In a police state I am sure two would be called a mob and the incident a riot.
        Do I have a problem with the policeman citing and/or arresting them for jaywalking? Nope, its a crime and they should know better.
        The only problem I have with the incident is,as I said before, it was excessive force for the situation in my opinion.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by KimW View Post

          LOL Steve.
          In a police state I am sure two would be called a mob and the incident a riot.
          Do I have a problem with the policeman citing and/or arresting them for jaywalking? Nope, its a crime and they should know better.
          The only problem I have with the incident is,as I said before, it was excessive force for the situation in my opinion.
          Well, they hit the cop, and that is why he hit them. If they had simply said "I'm sorry sir, I'll try to observe them in the future..." they MIGHT have gotten off with a WARNING!

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author JustinDupre
    This is a crazy video, people really should think before they act. Well, there should be better consequences for these actions. Thanks for sharing!
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Some good points there KJ. ( I know you changed your name to Bill, but you will always be KJ to me,lol).
    We don't klnow what happened before.
    But in my opinion, and this seems to be my opinion alone, and I am ok with that, an officer is to use force as a last resort,and even though the female (I wont call her a lady,she definitely isnt one) deserves something being done to her,this was not a last resort situation,therfore the viloence was in my opinion , excessive.
    The office could have detained the suspect with one hand while radioing for backup with the other.

    Just for the record, my uncle was a cop and my son in law has applied.I DO have sympathy for decent people of all walks of life.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Some good points there KJ. ( I know you changed your name to Bill, but you will always be KJ to me,lol).
      Kim,

      I'm always flattered when my friends here refer to me as KJ. I far and away prefer that moniker, I've had it for so many years here and other places on the net.

      So thanks to all my friends here who still call me KJ.

      KJ
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  • Profile picture of the author link8
    Banned
    Just saw this on the news today! But i think both parties are wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
    Jaywalking should be allowed...who has the right to tell someone how to cross a road! If you get killed you get killed its your choice...nobody is going to blame the cops for it...

    But no that makes too much sense and is too easy for this stupid world
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    • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
      Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo View Post

      Jaywalking should be allowed...who has the right to tell someone how to cross a road! If you get killed you get killed its your choice...nobody is going to blame the cops for it...

      But no that makes too much sense and is too easy for this stupid world
      What about the person who hits you? It's not their fault, yet they will experience psychological trauma and the nightmare of killing someone.

      What about cars trying to avoid hitting you and crashing. Injuries and death, all because of you.

      You forget about all of the other implications. That is profoundly selfish. You have no right to inflict your death upon random strangers.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
        Oh boo hoo **** happens people die all the time...you cant prevent everything! You just take it as it comes...the world is screwed with all these rules, no wonder everyone is miserable...Only a handful of people die this way anyway....we dont need to go overboard and put a prevention rule for every damn thing in the world.


        No its selfish telling people what to do and forcing them to do something...all for monetary reasons..come on think about it? WHO has the right to tell you how and where to walk? The police are not God, the Government are not God.

        My point still stands, we didnt have these stupid rules 20-30 years ago and the world was a better place...we dont need them,.

        There are crossing lights for people who choose to use them....everyone should have a choice not be forced.

        I dont care what you say but ,my way gives people freedom and a choice...and puts people on a level field why your view restricts our freedom.


        Originally Posted by Lawrh View Post

        What about the person who hits you? It's not their fault, yet they will experience psychological trauma and the nightmare of killing someone.

        What about cars trying to avoid hitting you and crashing. Injuries and death, all because of you.

        You forget about all of the other implications. That is profoundly selfish. You have no right to inflict your death upon random strangers.
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        • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
          Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo View Post

          Oh boo hoo **** happens people die all the time...you cant prevent everything! You just take it as it comes...the world is screwed with all these rules, no wonder everyone is miserable...Only a handful of people die this way anyway....we dont need to go overboard and put a prevention rule for every damn thing in the world.


          No its selfish telling people what to do and forcing them to do something...all for monetary reasons..come on think about it? WHO has the right to tell you how and where to walk? The police are not God, the Government are not God.

          My point still stands, we didnt have these stupid rules 20-30 years ago and the world was a better place...we dont need them,.
          We most certainly did have these rules 20-30 years ago, actually it's more like 70 years.

          A lot more than a handful die "this way". Pedestrian deaths are a severe problem in every major city. Here in Canada, the city of Toronto had 30 pedestrian deaths in one month (January).

          These kind of traffic laws were created to save lives, not just the hammerhead that wanders into traffic, but everyone else on the road.

          You seem to revel in your nihilism, since your in OZ perhaps you might be happier in the Outback. Of course, you would have no laws to bitch about.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
            LOL I'm not bitching I just have a thing most people dont and thats called common sense and wanting freedom.

            I'm all for rules when they make sense....

            I am capable of crossing a road without dying as most people are... in fact its been 24 years since I've been doing and *touch wood* so far so good:

            As I said If I get hit by a car its MY choice and MY fault how can it get more fairer than that?

            Sheesh....people just dont get it Fine keep allowing the Government to control everything in your life...one day you might wake up.

            No offense......*takes deep breathe* I'm just passionate about these sorts of topics


            Originally Posted by Lawrh View Post

            We most certainly did have these rules 20-30 years ago, actually it's more like 70 years.

            A lot more than a handful die "this way". Pedestrian deaths are a severe problem in every major city. Here in Canada, the city of Toronto had 30 pedestrian deaths in one month (January).

            These kind of traffic laws were created to save lives, not just the hammerhead that wanders into traffic, but everyone else on the road.

            You seem to revel in your nihilism, since your in OZ perhaps you might be happier in the Outback. Of course, you would have no laws to bitch about.
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    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo View Post

      Jaywalking should be allowed...who has the right to tell someone how to cross a road! If you get killed you get killed its your choice...nobody is going to blame the cops for it...

      But no that makes too much sense and is too easy for this stupid world
      Yeah and they should come up with a point system as to what you can score by who you run over. 20 points for little old ladys, 1000 points for kids, 1500 points for middle aged people...and when you hit the million point mark, you get a gift card to Walmart.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Jaywalking should be allowed
        People shouldn't have to wear seatbelts if they don't want to
        my "rights"

        I hear things like that and I think it's fine....IF....

        If you don't wear your seatbelt you shouldn't be able to sue anyone for damages in an accident. If you don't wear your seatbelt, maybe your insurance shouldn't pay off.

        If you jaywalk and get hurt, can't sue anyone for anything. If your jaywalking causes someone else to be hurt avoiding you - you are responsible.

        And that's the problem. People want to do as they please, when they please. The moment they run into a problem - they look for someone else to blame and our court systems make that easy.
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        • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
          I agree 100%

          I dont even think we should be forced to wear a seatbelts. Now of course it would be stupid not to but anyway thats another story..

          Part of it is the legal system is screwed, allowing people to not take responsibility for their own actions and allowing them to sue and win for real dumb reasons, thats the whole problem here really. The (USA started it I think) and most of the developed world has followed....

          If it was eye for an eye, common sense in the world things would be fine..

          My argument is, if a road is quiet and there is a huge gap in the road why cant i cross it? Why should I walk 200 meters to find the next crossing when its perfectly safe to cross right there and then? I should have that right...without being fined.

          Of course really busy roads I'd use the crossing but still..you should have the choice as its your life.



          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Jaywalking should be allowed
          People shouldn't have to wear seatbelts if they don't want to
          my "rights"

          I hear things like that and I think it's fine....IF....

          If you don't wear your seatbelt you shouldn't be able to sue anyone for damages in an accident. If you don't wear your seatbelt, maybe your insurance shouldn't pay off.

          If you jaywalk and get hurt, can't sue anyone for anything. If your jaywalking causes someone else to be hurt avoiding you - you are responsible.

          And that's the problem. People want to do as they please, when they please. The moment they run into a problem - they look for someone else to blame and our court systems make that easy.
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          • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
            Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo View Post

            My argument is, if a road is quiet and there is a huge gap in the road why cant i cross it? Why should I walk 200 meters to find the next crossing when its perfectly safe to cross right there and then? I should have that right...without being fined.
            Ernie, I sure hope you're saving these posts for a little later in life when you can look back and have a good laugh on yourself.

            Assuming you do have an extended stay on this planet...

            ~Bill
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

        Yeah and they should come up with a point system as to what you can score by who you run over. 20 points for little old ladys, 1000 points for kids, 1500 points for middle aged people...and when you hit the million point mark, you get a gift card to Walmart.
        Well you certainly don't need jay walkers to achieve that one. Just a set of car keys and a cell phone.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I can't quite understand how people are stupid enough to need J walking rules. Just the other day I almost hit someone who walked right out in front of my car, though. It was almost as if they couldn't conceive of the idea that it is not a good idea to walk out in front of a moving vehicle. A few days later I was on a 4WD path and there were cows that acted the same way.

    If anything is sad, it's the fact that a fully adult human can't figure out that you don't cross the street when there are cars coming. Should we really be protecting people that stupid?

    Would I have nightmares killing someone that idiotic? No. I sure would sweat that I would have ended up in the criminal justice system though - somewhere I don't want to be. That system can be completely bizarre and often proves to be a misnomer. I would have been very irate having to deal with that system because an adult is too stupid to know not to walk out in front of a car.

    As far as the girl getting punched in the face - I think that when you hit someone, you give up the right not to be hit. Had he tased her I'd be livid, but he matched force with force so to speak. Someone hits me, I'm going to hit them back, too. What Thom brought up though - looking like a search took place.........if that is the case, the cop might have gotten too feely and caused a problem himself. I've seen that happen before. So, like said - we need to know more.

    Ernie - I'm with you on laws. People need to be able to think about what they do. When they become so protected that they start to wander like a herd of cows through streets, it's time to cut loose with the laws and tell them that if they can't and won't take care of themselves that nobody else is going to do it for them. It's gotten to the point people here are complete zombies. The hook themselves to cell phones and don't watch what's going on when they drive, they walk out in front of moving cars, they drive off into the mountains in winter not dressed for it and with no emergency supplies because they have a cell phone -I could go on, but you get the idea. I'm wondering if people with that little survival instinct left are really worth the cost of saving.
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  • Profile picture of the author ncole9453
    Wow - what next - of course there are at least two sides to this incident. Yes, jay walking is illegal, at least everywhere I have lived. I also think the women should not have been confrontational - it didn't have to happen the way it did. However, the totally disagree with the police punching the woman. I didn't see any backup police to help out but I still think the punching could be avoided.
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Ayres
    People who have never been in the police will not know what it is like to be the figure of hate just because of thr uniform you are wearing and the fear you feel when you have to stop people fighting with weapons or you come accross a robbery and you dont know if they are armed.

    Police do a very hard and thankless job most of the time

    Personally after watching that video she got what she deserved, even after all that went on she still didnt go quietly.

    Also the cop didnt know if the crown was going to turn at ay time and help her so i think he did the best he could. The only thing he could have done better was to call for backup
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Ernie Lonardo,

    You are WRONG! Those rules have existed for THOUSANDS of years, just read the old testament! It talks about punishment and effects for even one that is injured by accident. Present day societies have merely codified that, etc... STILL, if someone thought about it 5-10 thousand years ago and it was a popular enough concern to make it there, you KNOW some feel the same today. If a person gets killed, THEY are out of the picture. THEY have no worries, etc.... But the people that hit them, are perceived to have hit them, etc... have worries that only START then! BTW if a person is hit, it CAN cause extensive damage and even DEATH of others! Death of others usually doesn't happen, but OBVIOUSLY could.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author jake411
    Chris:

    You asked, "Was it too much force?"

    I ask, Does a push deserve a punch in the face?
    And, When did punching a girl in the face become standard OP for peace officers?

    Reminds me of some of the excuses I've heard from spouse abusers....
    I won't repeat any of them here, but suffice it to say:
    Violence is NOT the way to solve every problem.

    Solving violence with violence.... now, that's the American way!!

    The Europeans taught that to Native Americans and to
    kidnapped and enslaved Africans.

    They eventually had to kill off the Native Americans to keep them
    from matching force with force.

    Nothing much has changed since then.

    Mankind is incapable of directing his own step.

    Jake
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Used to be a bad thing for a man to punch a woman. Or a 17 year old girl. This guy did it pretty quickly and like you I thought of spouse abuse. I wouldn't be surprised he has some of those problems at home also. I could just see this tough guy slapping the hell out of his wife or kid.

      Originally Posted by jake411 View Post

      And, When did punching a girl in the face become standard OP for peace officers?

      Reminds me of some of the excuses I've heard from spouse abusers....
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Used to be a bad thing for a man to punch a woman. Or a 17 year old girl. This guy did it pretty quickly and like you I thought of spouse abuse. I wouldn't be surprised he has some of those problems at home also. I could just see this tough guy slapping the hell out of his wife or kid.
        Tim,

        I think it's possible to put the shoe on the other foot and see this girl acting violently in her home.

        But that's just me...

        ~Bill
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
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          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
            "Violent"?! She pushed the cop away from her friend.
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            Well said!

            I'm sure that wasn't the first time that girl had been violent towards someone else.

            She got what she asked for.
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        • Profile picture of the author highhopes
          It is hard to comment on this as what went before is not clear...he should not have punched.
          Here is a real incident witnessed by myself, i have a low opinion of the police after experiencing it.
          ( funny i just handed them a survey they came to collect,I ticked my answers how i find them)
          We live in a really good neighbour hood and have brought our children up to respect the authorities:
          This letter of complaint went to London, after the local police, lied to me to get a fair hearing. Names, dates and real people.


          Independent Police Complaints Commission
          90 High Holborn
          London, WC1V 6BH
          Tel: 08453 002 002


          1st May 2007.

          Dear sir or Madam,
          Incident 28th April 2007.

          I wish to make a complaint against a police officer stationed at The Barry police station, Gladstone Rd, Barry, Cf63 1TD.
          Police officer Sgt King Force number 2402.

          Also, I would point out here I request a formal resolution enquiry.
          My letter will be brief as I am preparing on my daughter's behalf, detailed statements with respect to the night in question.

          Saturday the 28th April lat 10:55pm I received a call on my mobile from the officer in question, he told me that my daughter Francesca had been given a fixed penalty notice for being abusive to a police officer and swearing . Also she had refused to pay the taxi fare that night and that she was drunk. He then asked me to pick my daughter up from the Barry police station.
          At this point I felt disappointed obviously as my daughter had been celebrating her 21st birthday and had seemingly gone too far.
          However, my opinion quickly changed when I arrived at the station. This officer quickly marched up to my car while I was parking and proceeded to remonstrate with me for, in his words arriving 15 mins late! At this juncture I explained to him I had to drop a party of people back to their homes.
          Without contacting my daughter he led me into the police station and proceeded to intimidate, threaten, humiliate me, using foul language to relay his argument, stating that I should have left the party to find their own way home.
          At this point I realized I did not want to say anymore as I felt any comments would have sparked him into another furious episode and may end up with me being detained.
          He added that he wanted to lock my daughter up but due to the fact the cells were full that night and he could not be bothered in sparing his officers to drive all the way to Swansea to the next nearest station with accommodation.

          Eventually he let my daughter out of the police vehicle so that I could take her home.
          My worst fears were realized when I witnessed the emotional state she was in, notwithstanding the collection of bruises and cuts she picked during this encounter with Sgt king.


          The events unfolded, (more details later my daughter will compile a more detailed statement)
          (1) My daughter arrived in a taxi (asleep) at the station. Approx 10: 25pm
          (2) Sgt King woke her from sleep, asked her to get out, he took her handbag from her, looked through the contents, started accusing her of not wanting to pay the taxi fare and other comments in a sarcastic, belittling manner.
          (3) My daughter eventually did protest under this constant form of policing.
          (4) Sgt King used excessive force, twisting Francesca's arm behind her back, forcing her to the ground, where she sustained cuts to her hand, bruises to her leg and arm.
          (5) She was then detained in the police van outside the police station until my arrival.
          She was released with a fixed penalty charge about midnight.

          Is it normal and or lawful for the police to use such force?
          In my estimation I discerned in Sgt King that his character showed definite signs of aggression, certainly towards me and therefore concluded it is no wonder she had been locked up.

          On reflection my daughter had been abusive, but she is not the type of person that would act like this, and I feel she had been unfairly goaded into a state of verbal, abusive retaliation when she was physically man handled.
          She had been studying at the university of Sussex and is not one to get into any trouble, nor has she in the past, conversely she is very positive about life.

          To conclude I feel very disturbed about this matter and my own experience I witnessed on the night in question, so much so I will not let this go lightly.
          I am presently employing the services of a legal agent to advise on the next steps to proceed.
          Copies of this letter will be sent to all relevant parties at this time.

          Yours faithfully,
          Mr R. Jones
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    highhopes,

    Forgive my ignorance here, I am simply CURIOUS. The UK DOES have some law making unjustifiable searches, and police harassment, illegal, right!?!?

    Of course, the US does, and my mother had the same sort of treatment your daughter did. My mother was hit by a big van, her car was totalled, and she was barely lucid. A policeofficer, under risk of life(MY MOTHERS) harassed my mother, and even boarded the ambulance, and continued to HARASS her. He tried to get HER to admit fault though I doubt a reasonable person would accept such a "confession" as she was in shock and being harassed. I would be the FIRST to claim my mother is guilty since she is a bad driver, etc... After seeing the damage though, HER story sounds more plausible. The police report was OBVIOUSLY a complete fabrication too. Apparently, the other group was not really hurt, but my mother was in the hospital.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author highhopes
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      highhopes,

      Forgive my ignorance here, I am simply CURIOUS. The UK DOES have some law making unjustifiable searches, and police harassment, illegal, right!?!?

      Of course, the US does, and my mother had the same sort of treatment your daughter did. My mother was hit by a big van, her car was totalled, and she was barely lucid. A policeofficer, under risk of life(MY MOTHERS) harassed my mother, and even boarded the ambulance, and continued to HARASS her. He tried to get HER to admit fault though I doubt a reasonable person would accept such a "confession" as she was in shock and being harassed. I would be the FIRST to claim my mother is guilty since she is a bad driver, etc... After seeing the damage though, HER story sounds more plausible. The police report was OBVIOUSLY a complete fabrication too. Apparently, the other group was not really hurt, but my mother was in the hospital.

      Steve
      Yes Steve there is harassment laws, but in reality the police can get away with murder, ( manslaughter ) as was the case when an innocent bystander was filmed on camera in London watching a demonstration last year. He was clubbed in the back by an officer and fell to the ground. shortly after he died of a heart attack! It was covered up and diluted down believe it or not.

      Police 'assaulted' bystander who died during G20 protests | World news | The Observer
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Yor story fails to tell a very vital fact...why did the taxi go to the staation in the first place, instead of the destination your daughter requested?
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    • Profile picture of the author highhopes
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Yor story fails to tell a very vital fact...why did the taxi go to the staation in the first place, instead of the destination your daughter requested?
      It was because she fell asleep in the taxi and the drivers of the taxis have a policy not to touch sleeping people especially ladies to waken them.
      She had been to the movies with her friends and this incident occurred the night after her birthday celebrations with the family the day before and it went on till about 2am.
      Hence, tiredness kicked in on the way home.
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      • Profile picture of the author highhopes
        They drive to the station where women are concerned to get the police to wake them up...as there has been assaults on women by taxi drivers / bogus taxi drivers in the past and they have made this their policy.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by highhopes View Post

          They drive to the station where women are concerned to get the police to wake them up...as there has been assaults on women by taxi drivers / bogus taxi drivers in the past and they have made this their policy.
          As an ex cab driver, I promise the driver tried and tried to wake her before going to the police station. Any cab driver trying to make a living isn't going to go through the hassle of taking the time to deal with the police unless it's the last resort.

          If someone is so sound asleep that they fall asleep in the back of a strange car and a stranger's shouting voice won't wake them up, then there's another problem and I doubt she was just "asleep"..."Passed out" is probably more accurate.
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          • Profile picture of the author highhopes
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            As an ex cab driver, I promise the driver tried and tried to wake her before going to the police station. Any cab driver trying to make a living isn't going to go through the hassle of taking the time to deal with the police unless it's the last resort.

            If someone is so sound asleep that they fall asleep in the back of a strange car and a stranger's shouting voice won't wake them up, then there's another problem and I doubt she was just "asleep"..."Passed out" is probably more accurate.
            You can blanket a statement my friend if you dont know the facts....( you sound like the rocky mountain police force) ha ! that is your prerogative, however i am telling you she had been to the movies and had not drank that day / night, site seeing with her friends and just clean fun. She was tired however, because of the lack of sleep the previous night.

            UK taxi drivers have a policy to drive to the station when women are asleep....another thing, the taxi driver admitted the heavy handed police tactics.

            I hope that clears it up for you. I speak as I find and the police did apologise to my daughter and to confirm sergeant King had been reprimanded. With no further action on their part.

            The police do have a hard time I agree sometimes with difficult situations dealing with unruly people, but I know this officer probably reached the end of his tether on the night, all the cells were filled with offenders and he took this out on a soft target so, to speak.

            Another thing, I approached the police station confused and embarrassed after being told my daughter had been abusive and was prepared to be ever so apologetic and respectful to the police. My mind quickly changed when this mad person demonstrated with me as I pulled up outside and was very abusive from the start because I was in his mind 15 mins later arriving.( after dropping off my party to their homes, ) He said I should have left them there.

            We are all law abiding in this family / neighbourhood, maybe you have a picture of another place?
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            • Profile picture of the author highhopes
              Good example why taxi drivers are ultra cautious. In my own area Wales
              Passenger's fear over cab driver's sex act in taxi
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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by highhopes View Post

              You can blanket a statement my friend if you dont know the facts....( you sound like the rocky mountain police force) ha ! that is your prerogative, however i am telling you she had been to the movies and had not drank that day / night, site seeing with her friends and just clean fun. She was tired however, because of the lack of sleep the previous night.

              UK taxi drivers have a policy to drive to the station when women are asleep....another thing, the taxi driver admitted the heavy handed police tactics.

              I hope that clears it up for you. I speak as I find and the police did apologise to my daughter and to confirm sergeant King had been reprimanded. With no further action on their part.

              The police do have a hard time I agree sometimes with difficult situations dealing with unruly people, but I know this officer probably reached the end of his tether on the night, all the cells were filled with offenders and he took this out on a soft target so, to speak.

              Another thing, I approached the police station confused and embarrassed after being told my daughter had been abusive and was prepared to be ever so apologetic and respectful to the police. My mind quickly changed when this mad person demonstrated with me as I pulled up outside and was very abusive from the start because I was in his mind 15 mins later arriving.( after dropping off my party to their homes, ) He said I should have left them there.

              We are all law abiding in this family / neighbourhood, maybe you have a picture of another place?
              First, I don't assume anything without hearing both sides of the story, especially when one side is told by a father. You are hardly an unbiased witness.

              Second, I don't believe for a second that the cab driver didn't try to wake her with a loud voice. That's just plain stupid.

              Third, because a police officer apologized is hardly proof your daughter wasn't partially at fault. While the driver shares some responsibility, isn't your daugher also responsible for her own actions? Cabs aren't hotels. If you are that sleep-deprived where you can't be stay awake, let along be woken, maybe you shouldn't be out in public in the first place? The truth is, if she was coherent she wouldn't have been in this situation and depending on the humanity of strangers to get you home probably isn't the best first option.

              Fourth, I didn't say she had been drinking. I said "probably" and I said "passed out", which isn't limited to drinking...I promise you, 100% of the people I drove that couldn't wake up, were drunk or under the influence of something, or up partying the night before. Whatever the reason, your daughter was a big headache for a cab driver that was trying to just do his job.
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              • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
                I am no fan of of system enforcers, but when an officer instructs you to come to the car, your rights are not violated..., yet.., so you must comply to law enforcement instructions until your rights are violated.

                The girl he punched got off light, probably should have been stun with the stun gun.

                Arguing with the officer and raising one's tone and aggressiveness can be interpreted as pretense to violence and has happened before.

                With no back-up, should have stunned them both.

                Either comply and fight your ticket given, or be persuasive enough to get out of the ticket, or don't sign the ticket, quietly get arrested then call your lawyer to fight, sue and get you out of jail.

                But to threaten an officer whether verbally or otherwise, is simply stupid, they got off light, if I was the officer and back-up did not come and the perps where gettin away/evading arrest/ verbally and physically threating/ inciting others and unknowns in the crowd, they got off light...., should have tasered them both.

                Until your rights are violated, you must comply.

                If I was the judge and looked at the tape and testimony, I would give them the maximum the law would allow, interference with an officer, threats toward officer , encroachment of officers safety, assaulting the officer, evading arrest, inciting the crowd, failing to follow lawful instructions of officer,etc.

                Both should've got their ass kicked, royally.

                This is from someone who don't like or trust cops.

                If someone touched me and I was an officer, most likely its to do bodily harm or take my weapon, whether they intend to do so or not is immaterial.

                You don't have to like or agree with authorities, but you must implore a certain amount of respect and follow some protocols of lawful and civilized due process to resolve points of conflict.
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              • Profile picture of the author highhopes
                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                First, I don't assume anything without hearing both sides of the story, especially when one side is told by a father. You are hardly an unbiased witness.

                Second, I don't believe for a second that the cab driver didn't try to wake her with a loud voice. That's just plain stupid.

                Third, because a police officer apologized is hardly proof your daughter wasn't partially at fault. While the driver shares some responsibility, isn't your daugher also responsible for her own actions? Cabs aren't hotels. If you are that sleep-deprived where you can't be stay awake, let along be woken, maybe you shouldn't be out in public in the first place? The truth is, if she was coherent she wouldn't have been in this situation and depending on the humanity of strangers to get you home probably isn't the best first option.

                Fourth, I didn't say she had been drinking. I said "probably" and I said "passed out", which isn't limited to drinking...I promise you, 100% of the people I drove that couldn't wake up, were drunk or under the influence of something, or up partying the night before. Whatever the reason, your daughter was a big headache for a cab driver that was trying to just do his job.
                lISTEN I KNOW THE FACTS, BOTH SIDES OF THE STORY YOU DONT! YOU EITHER READ AND TAKE IT ON FACE VALUE OR SHUT UP!
                Otherwise you are calling me a liar!

                The taxi driver testified that the police were heavy handed and even came to my house to return the fair.
                It was because of this the police would have charged my daughter. Instead we get an apologetic letter and that`s it.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    That does make sense, thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I understand that police put their lives on the line, but they know that is part of the job when they take it. The increasingly violent attitude I am seeing, though, is extremely disturbing......not so much this case as she pushed first, but I've seen videos that were much more clear about what was happening and there is A LOT of excessive force being used - especially tasers. There is no right for anyone just because they wear a badge to tase someone when the cop isn't in danger. I've seen people tased just for not moving as fast as ordered to - people tased who are already subdued in handcuffs. The small town cop is being replaced by militia trained soldiers and they don't seem to have much concern about the rights of the citizens. Blackwater trained cops are proving to be more dangerous to citizens than safety for them. That's why filming cops is becoming illegal in some states. Too many are ending up in court for excessive force charges. I would think that is something that should concern every citizen. It's one thing for a cop to turn around and punch someone who is shoving them. That type of reaction can actually be nothing but reflexes for someone trained to defend themself. It's really upsetting to see this type of thing going on so frequently without physical provocation and then lose the right to film them in abusive actions.
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  • Profile picture of the author antoncipri
    Reality check!

    We don't have all of the FACTS and we never will.

    So, I can sum this debate up in one word...speculation.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      It quit being about jaywalking when she got physical with the guy. At that point, it's about assaulting a police officer, and other serious charges.

      As far as "excessive force," give me a break. He could easily have twisted her arm, dropped her to the ground on her face, and handcuffed her. With a hostile crowd gathered around, he probably didn't dare expose himself like that. Something the onlookers very likely didn't consider while they were busy adding fuel to the fire.
      We don't have all of the FACTS and we never will.
      Ayup!

      One thing we do know. When she got physical and he responded, he had little choice but to arrest her. If he hadn't, after that scuffle, she would have sued and won. Flat out. And she was not going to have that without escalating things.

      That's one reason that interfering with a police officer is so heavily frowned on, even when it's minor and not in any way physical. It's too easy to create that situation.


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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Paul,
    I have to disagree with this part:

    "As far as "excessive force," give me a break. He could easily have twisted her arm, dropped her to the ground on her face, and handcuffed her. With a hostile crowd gathered around, he probably didn't dare expose himself like that. Something the onlookers very likely didn't consider while they were busy adding fuel to the fire.Ayup!"

    If had had done what you suggested INSTEAD of punching her in the face, I would have no problem whatsoever with what happened. If he could have easily have done it,why didn't he? That is the prefered action in that situation most of the time.
    My opinion is that he didn't because he was as much out of control as the criminal.
    Someone used the correct term in an earlier post...PEACE Officer. THey are to uphold the law and to keep the peace. Resorting to street brawling does not constitue keeping the peace but it should constitue excessive force.
    My own opinion is that he both should have and could have easily called for backup.

    Edit:
    I want to add, I live in a relatively low crime area,but one thing the Peace Officers do in the county I live in is travel in pairs,and I mean vehicles,not just officers. I think this does help deter events in my area.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      My own opinion is that he both should have and could have easily called for backup.
      Kim,

      Backup is NOT instantaneous. Flare-ups are.

      Are you suggesting that the officer keep backing up to stay out of physical contact with the angry girl and wait for back-up?

      Or is there a flux capacitor lying around somewhere out of camera view.

      ~Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Kim,
      If had had done what you suggested INSTEAD of punching her in the face, I would have no problem whatsoever with what happened. If he could have easily have done it,why didn't he?
      Like I said... He may have felt that putting himself in that position was too risky while surrounded by an agitated crowd and at least one other person who'd been physical with him.

      Too many people approached him while he was standing. Crouched or kneeling would have made him an easier target.
      My own opinion is that he both should have and could have easily called for backup.
      Would have required letting go of her, which would have left her more than enough time to run away. And he'd still have had to deal with her until they got there if she hadn't run or if he could somehow have called while engaged in the altercation.

      As far as being "out of control," those situations are never under control. Not with an unsympathetic crowd around, or someone who's determined to behave the way that young woman was.


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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I'm about to do my treatment, when I am done I will watch the vid again, my recollection was that only the women were being rowdy,I didn't notice it in the crowd , but I could be wrong. (I actually am a lot of times).
    If I am, I'l come back and say so .
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    And KJ, from my understanding you can get a flux capacitor on almost every corner in that area if the price is right!
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  • Profile picture of the author Triwlo
    I highly disagree with tasing people, seems a bit stupid right?
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Would have required letting go of her, which would have left her more than enough time to run away. And he'd still have had to deal with her until they got there if she hadn't run or if he could somehow have called while engaged in the altercation.
      Actually after she was punched someone in the crowd pulled her away and got her out of there, till she came back to get arrested:confused:
      You're right about the crowd, they didn't appear violent but that could change in an instant. I can imagine him wrestling her to the ground and getting a knee in the head from someone in the crowd.
      He was pushed pretty hard by the chick in red and the other one wasn't being very friendly either. As soon as he realized the girl in red was no longer a threat he got the first girl seperated from the crowd as fast as he could.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    As promised, I have finished my treatment and gone back and watch the video in the first post of this thread.
    I must say that I spoke out without knowing whats going on apparently because the video in the first thread is about 3 times longer than the video I havd seen.
    I had orginally seen a video of this on a different site and started commenting in this thread.
    Bad move on my part.
    There certainly were a lot more people than I knew about and some most cetainly could have decided to butt in I think.
    While I still don't think it merited the action the officer took, the clenched fist hitting of the woman, I can more understand why he may have felt justified doing so.
    As I also said earlier in this thread, the women deserve to be punished for their actions/behavior.
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  • Profile picture of the author legitam
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    • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
      Jaywalkin don't necessarily bother me; its the attitude that they have the right of way and DARE you to hit them.

      The way most walk across the street anyway, as though they bought the freakin street, as though there is no one else in the universe, they should get hit, selfish ***holes.

      Can't tell you how many times I seen 'wipes' step off the sidewalk to walk across the street 2 seconds before it turned red, talking on their cell , purposefully not looking or caring at the vehicles , taking their time getting across the street, with an attitude.

      If I could get away with it, I would neither get pleasure nor sorrow for mowing them down..., just simply taking my turn AND caring as much about them and their safety as they care about me and their purposeful contempt for others.

      The only small snafoo is that it is illegal, other wise I would'nt blink once as a ran them over.

      People who get across the street, even if illegal, showing some sense of urgency and care of holding up others, like New Yorkers that get across that street , man, I don't mind holding up a few seconds or so, just get to where you going and quit walking like you are giving the finger to others around you.

      These guys should be road kill.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Not to hijack this thread, but before I commented - this thread was right above the "one hit wonders" thread. Am I the only one that finds amusement in these type of things?
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  • Profile picture of the author KO.MonSTARs
    So the cops wrong for doing his job?

    I say the pedestrians were wrong too then. First for Jaywalking in what seems to be a very populated street, that puts both driver and pedestrian in danger. Second for mouthing off profanity consistently to an officer. Third for her "friend" to jump in and try to "fight" the officer off the one being placed under arrest.

    If I was a cop I probably would have done the same, as there are a number of pedestrians surrounding me with one of them coming at me trying to "rough" me up.

    I mean think about it, how easily would it have been for all the spectators to jump on the cop and hurt him potentially kill him? Or to simply pull his gun from the holster while he's trying to fight off the others?
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    "My argument is, if a road is quiet and there is a huge gap in the road why cant i cross it? Why should I walk 200 meters to find the next crossing when its perfectly safe to cross right there and then? I should have that right...without being fined."

    Usually in those conditions there isn't a Peace Officer around to ticket you anyways!
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    • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
      Thats not the point its still "illegal"...

      Anyway I'm out of this thread I said my piece..thanks was interesting discussion.

      I knew most people wouldn't agree with me.....but then again most people in the world are stupid, fat, poor, materialistic, miserable slaves and mindless sheep so I don't feel too bad





      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      "My argument is, if a road is quiet and there is a huge gap in the road why cant i cross it? Why should I walk 200 meters to find the next crossing when its perfectly safe to cross right there and then? I should have that right...without being fined."

      Usually in those conditions there isn't a Peace Officer around to ticket you anyways!
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Where's Sarge? I want to hear what he says about this.
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        • Profile picture of the author highhopes
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Where's Sarge? I want to hear what he says about this.
          The Sarge was not seen again. The area officer for the force visited my home to explain the outcome before the letter of apology.
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          • Profile picture of the author KimW
            Originally Posted by highhopes View Post

            The Sarge was not seen again. The area officer for the force visited my home to explain the outcome before the letter of apology.

            Sarge is a member of this forum, not anyone in your story.
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      • Profile picture of the author KimW
        Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo View Post

        Thats not the point its still "illegal"...

        Anyway I'm out of this thread I said my piece..thanks was interesting discussion.

        I knew most people wouldn't agree with me.....but then again most people in the world are stupid, fat, poor, materialistic, miserable slaves and mindless sheep so I don't feel too bad
        Yes, I know its still illegal,which is why my statement makes so much sense,if it wasn't still illegal, it wouldn't matter how many offiercs were around!
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Is that your daily affirmation that you have on a wall plaque? Lol

        Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo View Post

        most people in the world are stupid, fat, poor, materialistic, miserable slaves and mindless sheep so I don't feel too bad
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        • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Is that your daily affirmation that you have on a wall plaque? Lol
          I must be overtired because that was pretty d&^n funny...lol!
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Tim - I have to wonder - did you watch the short version or the longer one?
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            • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
              If he does not quickly defuse the situation, he is more in danger.

              The more he delays, the more others think they could join in, if he continued without a show of force, maybe 3 , 4, 5 would join in the wrestling match, since they see he will not do anything.

              And he risk someone going for his weapons, shanking him, etc.,

              If I am a cop, and two people are physically fighting and/or wrestling me, someones going down, and quickly, after warnings.
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            • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
              THIS JUST IN.............

              The news is reporting the 17 yo girl has apologized to the officer for her role in the brawl.

              She is still being charged, and he is still under an internal investigation.

              I think Rodney King said it best...

              ~Bill
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              The one posted here. I think it's the longer one. I'm mostly pissed about the punch. I know the girl was in the wrong, but I didn't see any reason for a full grown ( although dork looking ) man throwing a punch at a woman. I for one find that sort of behavior unacceptable, especially is our world where women are constantly abused by men. Call me a sexist ( against men :-) ) if you want, but I hate seeing that and I hate seeing people defend this prick.

              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              Tim - I have to wonder - did you watch the short version or the longer one?
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              • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                The one posted here. I think it's the longer one. I'm mostly pissed about the punch. I know the girl was in the wrong, but I didn't see any reason for a full grown ( although dork looking ) man throwing a punch at a woman. I for one find that sort of behavior unacceptable, especially is our world where women are constantly abused by men. Call me a sexist ( against men :-) ) if you want, but I hate seeing that and I hate seeing people defend this prick.
                Tim,

                It has nothing to do with gender.

                So, just because it's two women, the cop should just let them do whatever they will. Give me a break.

                Let's say you were being beat up by a few women and weren't able to fend them off. And a cop came by. Would you request that the cop - who is trained - not hit or use ANY force against the women?

                And why do you have to resort to saying the cop looks like a dork?

                Further more HE isn't the prick in this situation.



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      • Profile picture of the author garyv
        Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo View Post

        e.....but then again most people in the world are stupid, fat, poor, materialistic, miserable slaves and mindless sheep so I don't feel too bad
        2/3 of the people in this world are stupid on every level. The other half are just bad at math.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary J Martin
    Wow, this sure is a busy thread.
    First off, jaywalking is a stupid law. Its not even illegal in many countries.
    But that's not why she was punched. Should she have been punched? It depends on many circumstances. The fact is, she was hardly a dainty 'lil thing. Judging from the look of her she could probably throw me around a bit! And the punch didn't faze her one bit.
    So the officer was having trouble getting her under control. He did what he considered necessary at the time. Cops can't afford to be timid when dealing with situations.
    If she had been a tiny thing and got knocked over or even knocked out, well that would be a little different.
    Maybe also the reason for the controversy is the fact he was white and she was black? Some people would see it that way. (Mainly blacks) That it was because he was black. But this is hardly Rodney King 2.
    Compared to that this is nothing.
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  • Profile picture of the author wptheme
    People's mind set - Cop are super human hero, they can be hit or slap and other things
    Public - weak, if anything happens to them they are the victim.
    Lol..
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    I seriously can't believe how much anti-cop nonsense there is in this thread.

    Unbelievable.

    Yeah! Screw the cops! With all their strong-arm, anti-liberties tactics! Down with the system!

    Until YOU need them.

    I watched the video and saw NOTHING wrong with ANYTHING the cops did. Nothing. The VERY SECOND anybody on the scene failed to obey a lawful order, they subject themselves tot he possibility of arrest, and rightfully so.

    When I heard a "17 year old girl was punched in the face", I expected to see...

    1. A "girl", not TWO WOMEN. In the eyes of the law, they may not be the age of majority, BUT had they committed a capital crime, you can be sure they would be charged as adults.

    2. An actual punch. In other words, I expected to see the cop plant his feet, take aim, pull his shoulder back, then let one loose. That didn't happen. It was a reflex.

    The reason for the stop is completely meaningless when it comes to the actions of the women on the video.

    The cop MAY have called for back up, we don't know. But either way, there was no back up there. There WERE plenty of people, though. Situations like that can get out of hand very quickly.

    Watch the video again.

    There is a male in blue trying to pull the one woman AWAY from the cop. But she wants to GO AFTER the cop. That alone is enough for his reaction, but there's more.

    At about 8 seconds in the woman breaks away from the male in blue, and gets in between the cop and the person he is already trying to fend off.

    At about 10.5 seconds, if you can get the video to freeze-frame, you will clearly see that the woman in pink strikes out at the cop. Sorry, but I couldn't get it to freeze to see if an actual connection was made, but that doesn't matter.

    After that the cop punches her back and INSTANTLY puts her in a restraining hold. This tells me he fell back on his training and was not reacting in anger. He was protecting himself and subduing a suspect.

    Then the woman in the black shirt gets in the middle of that.

    The woman in pink backs off, or recoils after being aware she just got what she deserved (depending on how you look at it).

    Then the cop does everything he can to NOT use excessive force against the suspect.

    It has NOTHING to do with AGE, GENDER or anything else at that point.

    Now, all that being said, if I were there I would have done something no one else in the crowd did...asked the office if there was anything I could do to help. I know he would probably say no, but it wouldn't stop me from offering.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but look again, and you will see that the cop used reasonable force and the women were out of line. They WERE breaking the law.

    No matter how much some of you people here would like to paint this as a case of police brutality (LAUGH), this isn't a case of some jackbooted thug trying to take out his aggression on innocent people. And if you think it is, then take the blinders off, because your anti-cop bias is clouding your ability to comprehend simple pictures.

    All the best,
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      BS. What if that was an 78 year old woman who pushed the cop? I suppose in your twisted logic punching her in the face is acceptable also. BTW, it was a punch. Even though the cop is a little dweeb, it was a hard thrown punch by him out of anger and frustration meant to do damage. We don't need "peace officers" like him around.



      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post


      It has NOTHING to do with AGE, GENDER or anything else at that point.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        BS. What if that was an 78 year old woman who pushed the cop? I suppose in your twisted logic punching her in the face is acceptable also. BTW, it was a punch. Even though the cop is a little dweeb, it was a hard thrown punch by him out of anger and frustration meant to do damage. We don't need "peace officers" like him around.
        Nice try, but it's not twisted logic.

        IF it were two 78, heck, let's make it 88-year-old women AND they came after the cop in the EXACT same circumstances with the EXACT same ferocity, then HECK YES, the cop would be fully justified with the same response.

        So, why do you hate the police so much?

        Just curious.

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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          You are a moron then. Shame on you.

          Now you resort to calling me names?

          Grow up.

          All the best,
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          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
            just stating a fact.

            All the best
            Tim
            Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

            Now you resort to calling me names?

            Grow up.

            All the best,
            Michael
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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
              Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

              You are a moron then. Shame on you.
              Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

              Now you resort to calling me names?

              Grow up.

              All the best,
              Michael
              Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

              just stating a fact.

              All the best
              Tim
              Way to go, Tim.

              There is nothing I could have said that's better than that to prove I'm right.

              Obviously, you have run out of logical arguments, so have to resort to personal attacks and name calling.

              Ad hominem arguments are one of the quickest ways to lose.

              Thank you.

              All the best,
              Michael
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              Listen to what those women are saying -

              You can't f*** do this to me
              What the f***are you doing
              Get the f*** off me
              Get your F*** hands off her

              The story behind it is interesting as both women have extensive arrest records according a news account.

              Marilyn Levias, the nineteen-year old who ended up getting punched in the face by the officer, was arrested for assaulting a different police officer and resisting arrest last year. She was a resident at the Ruth Dykeman residential treatment center at the time. Levias kicked a King County Sheriff's deputy in the stomach during the confrontation.
              One was 17 - the other was 19. I doubt anyone here would want their daughters hanging out with these two "innocents".
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Tim,
              just stating a fact.
              I woulod suggest not doing this particular sort of thing again.


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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        BS. What if that was an 78 year old woman who pushed the cop? I suppose in your twisted logic punching her in the face is acceptable also. BTW, it was a punch. Even though the cop is a little dweeb, it was a hard thrown punch by him out of anger and frustration meant to do damage. We don't need "peace officers" like him around.
        Tim - you were obviously taught to be a gentleman. But there is such a thing as a right to defend yourself and once someone shoves you or hits you in anger, you have the right to retaliate. Does someone lose that right when they put on a badge? This guy could have easily pulled a taser out but didn't abuse his "authority" to riddle someone with electricity. He had more than one person to deal with and had to show some prowess in the situation or it could've gone very highly violent against him a lot more quickly than he could have gotten back up. For those that insist he should have called for backup - it's pretty sad he'd even need to think about it for a stupid jay walking ticket.

        If it had been just her and him, I'm sure he just could have grabbed her and thrown some cuffs on her -- but he didn't have many luxuries at the time to worry about being a gentleman. He gave her a quick punch - didn't break jaws and noses - it was hard but not that bad. Considering that many would have used their tasers on her, I think he was quite calm about the situation. And, don't ignore an important fact- she actually was the aggressor. Any human alive would have had the right to turn around and punch her once she pushed them as she did. Not the right to kill or permanently maim her, mind you - but to punch her and ward her off. He still has that right, badge or no badge.

        Women are not defenseless any more. If they want the right to not be hit, they need to respect the right of others not to be hit, too. To just punch a woman for not doing as told is abuse. To hit one who is showing aggressive violence toward you should be a given. So what if he hadn't punched her and she took it as a signal that it was okay to kick him in the groin, too?

        If you've taken any kind of combat or self-defense instruction, you know the likelihood of the aggressor of continuing if someone backs down to them. He could have been quickly overwhelmed had he not put a stop to it right then and there. Just because he is male doesn't mean we have the right to expect him to put his own safety in jeopardy just because the aggressor is a woman.

        The guy did the right thing. And this, as well, is from someone who trusts a lot of cops as far as they can spit. If she wanted to be treated like a lady, she needs to learn to act like one.
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