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Pet Ownership - Why I Disagree With It

by Memberhere23094
87 replies
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In my personal opinion owning a pet is like restraining a life-form and forcing it into unnatural company. Imagine being trapped for life by a giant of a different species and being forced all kinds of sounds from it and facial expressions that appear to be from affection but you know you don't want it. I believe in hunting and eating meat, but you don't see animals trapping other animals and then getting those animals "gifts". I'd like to debate.

Paul
  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Memberhere23094 View Post

    In my personal opinion owning a pet is like restraining a life-form and forcing it into unnatural company.
    And in mine, it's like providing food, shelter, and companionship to someone you love.

    It appears to me that the only way to argue against that is by taking the position that people and their pets don't really love each other.

    And if you're so emotionally impoverished that you'd actually make that argument, it's just sad.
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    • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      And in mine, it's like providing food, shelter, and companionship to someone you love.

      It appears to me that the only way to argue against that is by taking the position that people and their pets don't really love each other.

      And if you're so emotionally impoverished that you'd actually make that argument, it's just sad.
      You don't think the natural habitat contains foods and liquid for the life-form to live? And where does this artificial affection for animals come from, really? How come lions don't trap deer and then buy gifts for those restrained deer? Or beetles trapping bees and saying "I love you" to them in their own "language" as if the bees would understand it? You see animals eating other animals, of different species, but you don't see them attempting to force affection onto them while ironically trapping them for life at the same time.
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by Memberhere23094 View Post

        but you don't see them attempting to force affection onto them.
        Ummm, yeah you do!

        http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...s-bunnies.html

        If you can be totally ridiculous, than so can I! :rolleyes:

        And by the way, my kitty told me to tell you that she thinks I am the Cat's Meow!

        Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Memberhere23094 View Post

        You don't think the natural habitat contains foods and liquid for the life-form to live? And where does this artificial affection for animals come from, really? How come lions don't trap deer and then buy gifts for those restrained deer? Or beetles trapping bees and saying "I love you" to them in their own "language" as if the bees would understand it? You see animals eating other animals, of different species, but you don't see them attempting to force affection onto them while ironically trapping them for life at the same time.
        Your premise is factually incorrect. There's plenty of examples, so much so they have a name: symbiotic relationships.

        Here's a list of some symbiotic relationships from Wikipedia. One that's missing is ants "ranching" aphids, where the ants feed and protect the aphids in exchage for "aphid juice", which is very sweet.

        Also note the coyote and the badger...They team up in amazing ways to hunt rabbits and gophers.

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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Memberhere23094 View Post

        You don't think the natural habitat contains foods and liquid for the life-form to live?
        When did I say that?

        And where does this artificial affection for animals come from, really?
        Artificial?

        How come lions don't trap deer and then buy gifts for those restrained deer?
        Because lions eat deer. I don't eat dogs or cats, and I don't keep fish and birds as pets. Because fish and birds are food.

        You see animals eating other animals, of different species, but you don't see them attempting to force affection onto them while ironically trapping them for life at the same time.
        Precisely how many videos and pictures would you like to see of animals "adopting" the babies of other species?
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        • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          When did I say that?
          You must’ve implied that the animals can’t live on their own if I’m not mistaken.

          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Artificial?
          Noises and sounds of “affection” while holding a life-form restrained does not seem to be much of a sign of care, at least to me.

          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Because lions eat deer. I don't eat dogs or cats, and I don't keep fish and birds as pets. Because fish and birds are food.
          So you eat certain animals for meat. Okay. Now where does this “animal affection” get into play?

          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Precisely how many videos and pictures would you like to see of animals "adopting" the babies of other species?
          Animal affection in such a sense like that is something I admit I’m pretty ignorant about, and I’d actually be interested to see more about that. All this stuff about “Survival of the fittest” and the predator eating the prey doesn’t exactly paint a PRIMARILY innocent picture of nature in my head.
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        • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
          Now, can we step out of kindergarten and try to figure out how pet ownership origninated? As I've mentioned before, people have used animals for food and transportation purposes. Certain animals may have been used as bait for traps, etc. What I'm trying to figure out is when people first started using animals for "affection-like purposes", however weird it seems when you start to look at it from this angle. Does anyone know of a specific period of time when this occurred?
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Originally Posted by Memberhere23094 View Post

        You don't think the natural habitat contains foods and liquid for the life-form to live?
        My wife and I had to care for three stray cats over the winter that were starving to death. We gave the ample food and drink. And do you know what happened next? They wanted companionship. So now they hang around our house all day and we pet them and talk to them and they just can't get enough.

        So I guess the answer is ...no.

        ~Bill
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        • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
          Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

          My wife and I had to care for three stray cats over the winter that were starving to death. We gave the ample food and drink. And do you know what happened next? They wanted companionship. So now they hang around our house all day and we pet them and talk to them and they just can't get enough.

          So I guess the answer is ...no.

          ~Bill
          Amongst the things I'm considering is whether or not the process which made certain animals seemingly more dependent on people can be reversed. It's the certain degree of domestication that likely made more cats in general dependent upon people. I want to know when and why domestication happened for reason(s) other than transportation and making certain living conditions easier.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Debate what - caveman mentality?

      The dog and cats today are the product of breeding for domestication. I don't own my pets - they are companions. You might be surprised how many of my words they understand and respond to. I also understand much of what they try to tell me because I know their behavior so well.

      It's also used as an excuse by idiots who leave unwanted dogs and puppies by the side of the road and say they "set them free" when in fact they left the animals to starve.

      Clearly, the OP has no experience with domesticated pets - and should keep it that way.
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      • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Debate what - caveman mentality?

        The dog and cats today are the product of breeding for domestication. I don't own my pets - they are companions. You might be surprised how many of my words they understand and respond to. I also understand much of what they try to tell me because I know their behavior so well.

        It's also used as an excuse by idiots who leave unwanted dogs and puppies by the side of the road and say they "set them free" when in fact they left the animals to starve.

        Clearly, the OP has no experience with domesticated pets - and should keep it that way.
        ...As if every single human being doesn't operate by cavemen and cavewomen mentality...please...

        Anyway, "breeding for domestication" was brought about by what? Okay, using dogs maybe to pull transportation in wintery weather but what else, really? Did some depressed person one day decide to lash out at animals by forcing artificial means upon them to "suit" a human's "wants"? Why shouldn't YOU be restrained by a giant of another species, just because it's bigger than you, and have to put up with all kinds of hogwash as if it's doing some kind of favor for you or showing "affection" or "love" for you? Seeing a big face staring down at you and going "awwww" ISN'T necessarily a pleasing existence for a life-form, and who are you to say that it is? Can you read that animal's mind? You think it feels a certain way just cause you claim it does? So much of our language has been forced onto them that they probably understand certain words as a baby that would grow to understand certain words, etc. Maybe these animals are being "starved" mentally to be forced into such unnatural situations.

        And I actually take that as a compliment, that I should keep it that way, not choosing to partake in forcing company onto "domesticated" animals.

        Now, can I ask you a question? Don't get offended. Do those cats REALLY seem that "cute" and "innocent" when they, without regret, eat little birds? How about when they RUN from typical people who throw their "affection" at them and brush up against people who hardly give them the light of day? Do they seem so "cute" and "innocent" then? Perhaps they, to a certain extent, represent something...
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  • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
    Well, as CD said - I love my animals and care and protect them. I love dogs, cats, birds, but especially TROLLS!

    --Jack
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    • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
      Originally Posted by jacktackett View Post

      Well, as CD said - I love my animals and care and protect them. I love dogs, cats, birds, but especially TROLLS!

      --Jack
      Would you love them enough to set them free? On the God-given planet for them to grow naturally on, and live on, and breathe on, and run around free unrestrained on? And unrepressed?
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  • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
    The fact that you refer to animals as "life forms" tells me that the folks responding in this thread care more about the welfare of animals than you ever will.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
    Originally Posted by Memberhere23094 View Post

    Imagine being trapped for life by a giant of a different species and being forced all kinds of sounds from it and facial expressions that appear to be from affection but you know you don't want it.
    If my dog runs outside the house without a leash, and I tell her to get back in the house, and she does, then is it okay?

    You don't think the natural habitat contains foods and liquid for the life-form to live?
    When there is a drought outside, my pets still have fresh water. They don't need to roam the countryside looking for a drink.

    If they get sick, they get medical attention. If a parasite infects or infests them, they get that taken care of too.

    If they break a leg, they get medical attention. They don't have to spend the rest of their lives limping.

    When it's hot outside, they don't need to risk being eaten by a troll by going under a bridge for shade...
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    • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
      Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

      If my dog runs outside the house without a leash, and I tell her to get back in the house, and she does, then is it okay?



      When there is a drought outside, my pets still have fresh water. They don't need to roam the countryside looking for a drink.

      If they get sick, they get medical attention. If a parasite infects or infests them, they get that taken care of too.

      If they break a leg, they get medical attention. They don't have to spend the rest of their lives limping.

      When it's hot outside, they don't need to risk being eaten by a troll by going under a bridge for shade...
      After perhaps years of ingrainment where that animal's typical food-source comes from, the animal probably wouldn't know where else to go without being captured by somebody, so returning to its helpless conditions is probably the only option left to "carry on".

      Quite some effective points you made afterwards, I gotta give you that. The question I have is where trapping animals and then treating them even originated...People used animals for transportation purposes, possibly as bait to trap other animals, etc. But I'm curious as to how "affection-like" purposes started being carried out on animals.
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      • Profile picture of the author Submerge
        Originally Posted by Memberhere23094 View Post

        After perhaps years of ingrainment where that animal's typical food-source comes from, the animal probably wouldn't know where else to go without being captured by somebody, so returning to its helpless conditions is probably the only option left to "carry on".
        Like I stated earlier, my parents dog actually goes outside and is capable, and does, catch rodents/birds. He's always looking out the window for chipmunks that inhabit beneath our porch.
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        • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
          Originally Posted by Submerge View Post

          Like I stated earlier, my parents dog actually goes outside and is capable, and does, catch rodents/birds. He's always looking out the window for chipmunks that inhabit beneath our porch.
          Doesn't sound bad. But where how did animal and human associations of such a sort with regards to "affection", and therefore trapping the animal in your living space begin? That's what I want to know.
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          • Profile picture of the author Submerge
            Originally Posted by Memberhere23094 View Post

            Doesn't sound bad. But where how did animal and human associations of such a sort with regards to "affection", and therefore trapping the animal in your living space begin? That's what I want to know.
            Well, I do understand the ideology of trapping. As I know an individual who will not let their cat outside, although it meows to be let out. I do let this cat outside when over (when the owner is not around), and the cat sticks around in the gated yard looking around. But since it isn't mine, I do drag him back in to not get in trouble with that individual.

            And I do agree with you, that is wrong.

            But with my parents dog, he sits outside the window to be let in, for a good couple minutes as I am not near the door when he's outside frolicking. So I am merely a means of opening the door sometimes, since we do not have pet doors.

            I personally wish there was a way to let the dog go in and out as he pleased. But sometimes we care too much and try to protect them. Which may prevent them with certain freedoms, however we don't understand it that way. Like a mother and her child. My dog likes to chase after foxes, mail trucks, and little kids. So we do try to keep him around when there is a potential for him to get hurt, or hurt a human as he will then be put down if he bites a person. We feel it as being in their best interest, but you see it as a means to restrain their freedom.
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            • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
              Originally Posted by Submerge View Post

              Well, I do understand the ideology of trapping. As I know an individual who will not let their cat outside, although it meows to be let out. I do let this cat outside when over (when the owner is not around), and the cat sticks around in the gated yard looking around. But since it isn't mine, I do drag him back in to not get in trouble with that individual.

              And I do agree with you, that is wrong.

              But with my parents dog, he sits outside the window to be let in, for a good couple minutes as I am not near the door when he's outside frolicking. So I am merely a means of opening the door sometimes, since we do not have pet doors.

              I personally wish there was a way to let the dog go in and out as he pleased. But sometimes we care too much and try to protect them. Which may prevent them with certain freedoms, however we don't understand it that way. Like a mother and her child. My dog likes to chase after foxes, mail trucks, and little kids. So we do try to keep him around when there is a potential for him to get hurt, or hurt a human as he will then be put down if he bites a person. We feel it as being in their best interest, but you see it as a means to restrain their freedom.
              You try to prevent another person's cat from getting into trouble with a stranger by keeping that cat inside when a particular stranger is outside? I don't particularly understand your statement...

              And the question is how animals ever even started becoming associated with people on an "affection-like" basis rather than transportation and food purposes. It's something how you don't see bears tieing up rabbits, for instance, and restraining those rabbits to bring them food for life until those rabbits die...it's really not an innocent thing as all when you look at it from a different angle that isn't based on brainwashing and "norms" or whatever the hell they are.

              Besides, a typical "norm" nowadays anyway is to say that you're a "Christian" just because you go to church and you can get away with whatever you want besides that, but that's a different story. Just an example though of how reliable a "norm" can be.
              Through overprotection you could unknowingly even be training that animal to never take risks, which would ironically possibly even lower the animal's quality of life.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
        Originally Posted by Memberhere23094 View Post

        But I'm curious as to how "affection-like" purposes started being carried out on animals.
        How do you know it wasn't the animals that manipulated us into caring for them?
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        • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
          Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

          How do you know it wasn't the animals that manipulated us into caring for them?
          If the animals manipulated us into caring for them we'd have the common sense to let them be free.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
            Originally Posted by Memberhere23094 View Post

            If the animals manipulated us into caring for them we'd have the common sense to let them be free.
            If the animals manipulated us into caring for them, then that negates your argument that they are being forced or restrained into domestication. At this point, you're arguing for the sake of argument and not for the sake of a particular principle.
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            • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
              Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

              If the animals manipulated us into caring for them, then that negates your argument that they are being forced or restrained into domestication. At this point, you're arguing for the sake of argument and not for the sake of a particular principle.
              Oh, now I understand exactly what it was I responded to...
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  • Profile picture of the author Gene Pimentel
    "like restraining a life-form and forcing it into unnatural company"

    My cat found ME actually, came running up to me out of the blue, started to talk to me, followed me as I walked through my sister's back yard, and has chosen to stay with us ever since. He comes in the house and leaves as he pleases... but wouldn't you know, he's at the door every day at meal time. I guess that makes ME the restrained life form forced into unnatural company.
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    • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
      Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel View Post

      "like restraining a life-form and forcing it into unnatural company"

      My cat found ME actually, came running up to me out of the blue, started to talk to me, followed me as I walked through my sister's back yard, and has chosen to stay with us ever since. He comes in the house and leaves as he pleases... but wouldn't you know, he's at the door every day at meal time. I guess that makes ME the restrained life form forced into unnatural company.
      Interesting. I'm not saying it's incorrect of you to do, my opinion COULD change with regards to certain areas, but interesting.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
    Originally Posted by Memberhere23094 View Post

    In my personal opinion owning a pet is like restraining a life-form and forcing it into unnatural company.
    Are you also opposed to keeping houseplants?
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  • Profile picture of the author Submerge
    I let my parent's "pet" outside on our half-acre lawn with no fence. He has freedom to roam around, pee on what he wants and even wanders off the property into the woods behind our house. Why does he come back to be let in after awhile?

    Because he's connected with us on a pack level. Dogs roam in packs (families), and he has chosen to be a part of our pack, and let us be a part of his pack. If he wanted to, he could easily run away and fend for himself. He's a terrier, and chases/hunts smaller animals. Catching chipmunks, mice, and birds. He's fully capable of fending for himself.

    What's really to say different species can't live harmoniously side by side. Even dogs and elephants have chosen to be partners (friends). And seeing stories on the news about dogs trying to care for their "owners" when they are injured, or whimper when their "owners" die, really reinforces that pets and humans can co-exist naturally.

    Sure, some people shouldn't have pets. Or should only have one, rather than 6. And I know people who do prevent their pets from doing what they desire. Yes, certain individuals ruin it for the rest. But I think it can be done correctly sometimes.

    [edit] You've never seen animals in the wild adopt other species babies because their parents died? So yes, animals do take care of other animals, even if they aren't a related species.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Perry
    If this is some ploy to get some attention to your sig links, then I think you've succeeded...

    Otherwise you're a complete quack IMO.

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    • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
      Originally Posted by The Godfather View Post

      If this is some ploy to get some attention to your sig links, then I think you've succeeded...

      Otherwise you're a complete quack IMO.

      Kevin
      Show me one person that is not a "quack".

      And some attention to my signature links can't hurt.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gasen
    Doe she look restrained or trapped?



















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  • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
    Gasen, without quoting your post considering I don't want to flood the thread with those pictures, I will say that to me it doesn't look happy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gasen
    These pics were taken while she felt sleepy. She is too quick for me to take pics while she is playing.
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  • Profile picture of the author jandermile
    Caring for animals may take them out of their "Natural Habitat" but I think most of them would much rather this life, where they have guaranteed food, drink, shelter, unlike the wild where you could go a day without food.
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    • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
      Originally Posted by jandermile View Post

      Caring for animals may take them out of their "Natural Habitat" but I think most of them would much rather this life, where they have guaranteed food, drink, shelter, unlike the wild where you could go a day without food.
      I'm gonna push the boundary further here as to emphasize how much they're being deprived of the company of the opposite gender of their same species. Where people have even gone so far as to even take certain measures to castrate animals, these very trapped animals, or even ones that aren't practically castrated, lack contact with the opposite gender of their species. They'd more likely be in line with this idea if living away from human civilization. But even if they were satisfied in that regards, there's likely still a sense of being "trapped", or that something not natural is occuring due to the degree of restrainment that's inflicted upon them by people who have no business even forcing such a thing as their artificial affection on them. If you think trapping animals for living under your own living standards and conditions is a sign of "care", think again.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Now, can I ask you a question? Don't get offended. Do those cats REALLY seem that "cute" and "innocent" when they, without regret, eat little birds? How about when they RUN from typical people who throw their "affection" at them and brush up against people who hardly give them the light of day? Do they seem so "cute" and "innocent" then? Perhaps they, to a certain extent, represent something...
      Cats choose their people. The best description of felines is :

      Your dog sees you as family; your cat thinks you are staff.

      Who said animals are meant to be "cute and innocent" - they are species with their own traits, instincts and preferences. Each has its own personality just as people do.

      Wild animals should not be pets! They are better off with total freedom to participate in their part of the natural food chain and can care for themselves in the wild. Their life span may be longer in captivity (which is what you call keeping wild animals as pets) but neither natural nor free.

      That same argument does not apply to species that have been domesticated over centuries of time. "Set them free" means leaving them to starve as they have lost the ability to forage for themselves. I have a dog door, too, but my dogs choose to spend 95% of their time in the same room I occupy rather than enjoying their "freedom" outside.

      There are feral cats in the woods across from my house - they are totally free and belong to no one. They have been spayed in a catch and release - but prior to that any kittens born "free" seldom survived for more than a few days or weeks. Where's the quality of that life? The adult cats are doing well - mainly because they raid my cat bowls every day so they aren't at starvation level of most feral cats.

      My cats have a cat door and can come and go as they please. They choose to spent 90% of their time indoor where it's more comfortable.

      If you want to see an animal in true distress, you come across a dog who has been put out on the roadside. He waits for the owner to return, doesn't know what happened, has no idea how to take care of himself. He will not survive for long - is that quality of life? Did he choose to be "free"?
      Domesticated animals retain many of the instincts of the breed. But they are not wild and have lost the predator edge needed to survive in nature.

      If a human walks into a field where there are young puppies every one of those pups will run to the person - not run toward freedom. That's without any food, water or any enticement at all.

      Forming personal opinions is useless when those opinions are based on wild theories of what animals want - and no knowledge of wild or domesticated animals, their history or their behavioral patterns.

      To know what animals want - you must first know animals. Otherwise, you are only projecting your own human emotions and opinions on a different species of life.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Gasen -

        She looks incredibly adorable!
        Signature
        Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          @Gasan She is absolutely adorable!

          Those pictures make me want to pick her up, hold her, hug, her and give her some lovin'!

          @ Memberhere Where did that above statement come from? From where did that originate you ask.

          From the bottom of my heart!

          Do you have one of those at all?

          Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
            Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

            @Gasan She is absolutely adorable!

            Those pictures make me want to pick her up, hold her, hug, her and give her some lovin'!

            @ Memberhere Where did that above statement come from? From where did that originate you ask.

            From the bottom of my heart!

            Do you have one of those at all?

            Terra
            What above statement.
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            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
              Originally Posted by Memberhere23094 View Post

              What above statement.
              This one:

              Those pictures make me want to pick her up, hold her, hug, her and give her some lovin'!

              You know, the one directly above where I originally asked you a question.

              Terra
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              • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
                Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                This one:

                Those pictures make me want to pick her up, hold her, hug, her and give her some lovin'!

                You know, the one directly above where I originally asked you a question.

                Terra
                Confused..
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                • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                  Originally Posted by Memberhere23094 View Post

                  Confused..
                  Why am I not surprised? :rolleyes:

                  Terra
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                Terra -

                There are some things you can't cure

                I think this is one of them.

                kay
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                Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

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            • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
              Some life forms just like to argue so they start silly threads to feel alive.

              Here are the 3 life forms I'm torturing every day by "enslaving" them. One was rescued from a puppy mill in Oklahoma where she lived in a crammed chicken coop. The second was abandoned by it's OWNERS after 5 years so we took her in. I guess we should have let them set her free.








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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by Alan Petersen View Post

                Some life forms just like to argue so they start silly threads to feel alive.

                Here are the 3 life forms I'm torturing every day by "enslaving" them. One was rescued from a puppy mill in Oklahoma where she lived in a crammed chicken coop. The second was abandoned by it's OWNERS after 5 years so we took her in. I guess we should have let them set her free.








                I think you are one of the most kind hearted enslaving life-forms that I've ever met!

                I mean look, you even gave #1 a Pink bed of her own and everything!

                Terra
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                • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                  I think you are one of the most kind hearted enslaving life-forms that I've ever met!

                  I mean look, you even gave #1 a Pink bed of her own and everything!

                  Terra
                  Whatever CAN be justified with a pink bed, SHOULD be. Thank you for today's life-lesson. Pleasure me more with some?
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                  • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
                    What do these animals do for you people that you can't do for yourselves? They obviously haven't taught you manners yet from what I've seen so far...
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                    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                      Originally Posted by Memberhere23094 View Post

                      What do these animals do for you people that you can't do for yourselves?
                      Why do they need to do anything?
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              • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
                Originally Posted by Alan Petersen View Post

                Some life forms just like to argue so they start silly threads to feel alive.

                Here are the 3 life forms I'm torturing every day by "enslaving" them. One was rescued from a puppy mill in Oklahoma where she lived in a crammed chicken coop. The second was abandoned by it's OWNERS after 5 years so we took her in. I guess we should have let them set her free.
                I'm not too worried about the three dog life-forms you've enslaved. I am a little concerned, however, about whatever life-form you've literally trapped and enslaved underneath the blanket in this photo:

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                • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
                  Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

                  I'm not too worried about the three dog life-forms you've enslaved. I am a little concerned, however, about whatever life-form you've literally trapped and enslaved underneath the blanket in this photo:
                  That's where his round trophy for the high school debate team is.
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                • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
                  Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

                  I'm not too worried about the three dog life-forms you've enslaved. I am a little concerned, however, about whatever life-form you've literally trapped and enslaved underneath the blanket in this photo:
                  Those are my wife's legs... I cropped out her face because if she found it I posted it "as is" on a public form my life-form would cease to exist.
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        • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Gasen -

          She looks incredibly adorable!
          ...adorable enough to be unfairly treated by a bigger life-form...
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      • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Cats choose their people. The best description of felines is :

        Your dog sees you as family; your cat thinks you are staff.

        Who said animals are meant to be "cute and innocent" - they are species with their own traits, instincts and preferences. Each has its own personality just as people do.

        Wild animals should not be pets! They are better off with total freedom to participate in their part of the natural food chain and can care for themselves in the wild. Their life span may be longer in captivity (which is what you call keeping wild animals as pets) but neither natural nor free.

        That same argument does not apply to species that have been domesticated over centuries of time. "Set them free" means leaving them to starve as they have lost the ability to forage for themselves. I have a dog door, too, but my dogs choose to spend 95% of their time in the same room I occupy rather than enjoying their "freedom" outside.

        There are feral cats in the woods across from my house - they are totally free and belong to no one. They have been spayed in a catch and release - but prior to that any kittens born "free" seldom survived for more than a few days or weeks. Where's the quality of that life? The adult cats are doing well - mainly because they raid my cat bowls every day so they aren't at starvation level of most feral cats.

        My cats have a cat door and can come and go as they please. They choose to spent 90% of their time indoor where it's more comfortable.

        If you want to see an animal in true distress, you come across a dog who has been put out on the roadside. He waits for the owner to return, doesn't know what happened, has no idea how to take care of himself. He will not survive for long - is that quality of life? Did he choose to be "free"?
        Domesticated animals retain many of the instincts of the breed. But they are not wild and have lost the predator edge needed to survive in nature.

        If a human walks into a field where there are young puppies every one of those pups will run to the person - not run toward freedom. That's without any food, water or any enticement at all.

        Forming personal opinions is useless when those opinions are based on wild theories of what animals want - and no knowledge of wild or domesticated animals, their history or their behavioral patterns.

        To know what animals want - you must first know animals. Otherwise, you are only projecting your own human emotions and opinions on a different species of life.
        Cats know English to tell you that they choose you? Dogs are waiting their existence out and pettily show what they can while waiting, hence explaining them "looking around with big smiles" and "ownership loyalty" since there's obviously no other way considering they're "not allowed" to live more naturally?

        Besides for transportation and food usage, cutting most if not all of the animal kingdom away from human civilization would probably make the most sense, and only letting back in certain ones which would try to get back in badly enough, in a broad sense. But domestication itself for the sake of "affection-like" purposes was the projection of one or a group of people of their emotions onto the lifestyle of other species, certain ones these seemed "decorative" enough for a household, for instance. In the wild these animals would likely hardly be considered "cute and innocent" at all, in the same way that a person's appearance would probably tell you hardly anything about their character.

        There are people act as if they're doing their "pets" a favor while they're ironically restraining them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gene Pimentel
    Hmm, why is it showing only 5 posts by Memberhere23094 when he/she has posted almost 20 times in this thread? Anybody else seeing that?

    Join Date: Apr 2010
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    • Profile picture of the author LynnM
      Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel View Post

      Hmm, why is it showing only 5 posts by Memberhere23094 when he/she has posted almost 20 times in this thread? Anybody else seeing that?

      Join Date: Apr 2010
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      Off Topic posts don't count, Gene.
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  • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
    Alan Petersen

    *[Traffic increasing through means of engaging on forums debates could be a possible traffic-increasing strategy for Internet Marketers, and one that fellow Internet Marketers can pick up on if they so please.]

    "Some life forms just like to argue so they start silly threads to feel alive."

    *And I'd hate to say that I can only hope that those puppies' living conditions are of better quality due to the obvious maturity-level of their owner. Just a thought.

    "Here are the 3 life forms I'm torturing every day by "enslaving" them. One was rescued from a puppy mill in Oklahoma where she lived in a crammed chicken coop. The second was abandoned by it's OWNERS after 5 years so we took her in. I guess we should have let them set her free. "

    What you put out is what you'll face. I'm only sayin'.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
    Maybe the troll will like this story -

    Man run over by truck after dog puts it in gear
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Wonder what he would think about this one?

      Dog saves family from fire that cat started // Current

      Mixed emotions perhaps?

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Wonder what he would think about this one?

        Dog saves family from fire that cat started // Current

        Mixed emotions perhaps?

        Terra
        Interesting. Btw maybe if an animal like saved my life or something I'd likely have some affection but please...picking up a cricket out of nowhere and saying "I love you" or "I love how good you are to me" is pretty screwed up.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          ...picking up a cricket as a pet?

          I admit I'm pretty ignorant about
          We have now reached an agreement.:rolleyes:
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          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

          I'm going to work on being less condescending
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by Memberhere23094 View Post

          Interesting. Btw maybe if an animal like saved my life or something I'd likely have some affection but please...picking up a cricket out of nowhere and saying "I love you" or "I love how good you are to me" is pretty screwed up.
          Since when did a cricket become an animal?

          I thought we were discussing affection between animals and people who love and care for them.

          Last time I checked crickets were in the insect category. Kay is certainly on the right track!

          Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
            Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

            Since when did a cricket become an animal?

            I thought we were discussing affection between animals and people who love and care for them.

            Last time I checked crickets were in the insect category. Kay is certainly on the right track!
            The original topic was pet ownership. There are some insects that are popularly kept as pets around the world. A cricket is a prime example. Others include mantids, hissing cockroaches and ants.
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            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
              Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

              The original topic was pet ownership. There are some insects that are popularly kept as pets around the world. A cricket is a prime example. Others include mantids, hissing cockroaches and ants.
              Thanks Dan,

              The discussion topic keeps changing around here, but ahh, the ant farm.

              My brother actually had one when we were mere children. He also had Hermit crabs, chameleons, snakes and turtles.

              Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
      Originally Posted by Lawrh View Post

      Maybe the troll will like this story -

      Man run over by truck after dog puts it in gear
      Evidence that I'm officially a "troll"? Let's see it. Which rule am I breaking? Maybe posting without reason is trolling...
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  • Profile picture of the author Clyde
    This is half-trolling but I don't understand why Americans have problems with Koreans/Chinese eating dogs when they themselves eat Chicken.

    I have a Chicken as a pet once, we use them for cock-beauty-pageants.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by unlimitedsubmissions View Post

      I have a Chicken as a pet once, we use them for cock-beauty-pageants.
      What do you do with cats?
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    • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
      This phrase:

      Originally Posted by unlimitedsubmissions View Post

      ... we use them for cock-beauty-pageants.
      ...sure made me pause.

      Cheers,
      Becky
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        What I'm trying to figure out is when people first started using animals for "affection-like purposes", however weird it seems when you start to look at it from this angle. Does anyone know of a specific period of time when this occurred?
        If you are serious about understanding, the link below is a good place to start.

        History of DOMESTICATION OF ANIMALS

        and

        http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ng...0020101.1.html
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        Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

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  • Profile picture of the author Jagged
    Well, let's check the score of the debate:

    On one side we have the troll...errr...I mean the OP who seems to be on a personal crucade to ruin any bit of credibility he has or ever will have in this forum.....who stands on his comment that...."owning a pet is like restraining a life-form and forcing it into unnatural company"

    On the other side we have scores of rational thinking warriors who counter strongly with love & compassion for domesticated "life forms" of all kinds...

    Score:
    OP - 1
    Warriors - 59+

    Not much of a debate.....more like someone just looking for a little attention.

    OK Folks...there's nothing more to see here....move along
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    • Profile picture of the author Aussie_Al
      I can't see how anyone can own a cat - there is an old saying Dogs have masters Cats have STAFF!!!

      I live in a household with 3 cats and 1 dog

      2 of the cats we rescued from outside (strays), in my town most of the stray cat colonies have feline aids or leukemia and have a very short and painful live

      These guys are going on 10 years each and know what a good deal they have and are very very grateful - trust me

      The dog is my room mates who she has had since she was 13 - she was in the country and playing with friends near an old truck they heard this weird noise and saw a burlap sack with someone wriggling inside - it was a small puppy who she adopted and has been with her ever since

      Do you think these animals feel like slaves? and owned? heck no!
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      • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
        Originally Posted by Aussie_Al View Post

        I can't see how anyone can own a cat - there is an old saying Dogs have masters Cats have STAFF!!!

        I live in a household with 3 cats and 1 dog

        2 of the cats we rescued from outside (strays), in my town most of the stray cat colonies have feline aids or leukemia and have a very short and painful live

        These guys are going on 10 years each and know what a good deal they have and are very very grateful - trust me

        The dog is my room mates who she has had since she was 13 - she was in the country and playing with friends near an old truck they heard this weird noise and saw a burlap sack with someone wriggling inside - it was a small puppy who she adopted and has been with her ever since

        Do you think these animals feel like slaves? and owned? heck no!
        Animals have no other choice but to falsely make the best if that what it means to "carry on" when it's impossible to live another way. So they might communicate innocently with their owners.
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    • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
      Originally Posted by Jagged View Post

      Well, let's check the score of the debate:

      On one side we have the troll...errr...I mean the OP who seems to be on a personal crucade to ruin any bit of credibility he has or ever will have in this forum.....who stands on his comment that...."owning a pet is like restraining a life-form and forcing it into unnatural company"

      On the other side we have scores of rational thinking warriors who counter strongly with love & compassion for domesticated "life forms" of all kinds...

      Score:
      OP - 1
      Warriors - 59+

      Not much of a debate.....more like someone just looking for a little attention.

      OK Folks...there's nothing more to see here....move along
      Thank you sir. Be sure to keep me updated.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Ken,
      OK Folks...there's nothing more to see here....move along
      Excellent thought.


      Paul
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      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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  • Profile picture of the author Gasen
    To the OP

    I guess that while growing up, your dog was loved more than you.
    You are also pissed off because the only time the dog played with you was when a bone was tied around your neck.

    It's Ok. It's not your fault. There is still time to prove that you are worthy of attention, but this is not the way.














    Oh, and Snowy says













    B I T E M E S U C K E R
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    • Profile picture of the author Memberhere23094
      Originally Posted by Gasen View Post

      To the OP

      I guess that while growing up, your dog was loved more than you.
      You are also pissed off because the only time the dog played with you was when a bone was tied around your neck.

      It's Ok. It's not your fault. There is still time to prove that you are worthy of attention, but this is not the way.














      Oh, and Snowy says














      B I T E M E S U C K E R
      I love you too. ...Just trying to figure out what I can make up about your childhood based on your posts...is there a reason you need animals so much? :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author lisaweyn
    Referring pets to life forms indicates that you don't care them.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Hey Memberhere23094

    HeySal here - I'm sure you'll remember my name for awhile.

    I don't know what country you come from. I don't care. It just chills me that you can't see the love of a pet as anything more than "artificial affection". If a situation ever came down to between you and my dog - you're dead" Simple as that.

    Certain forms of animals were domesticated over 6,000 years ago. There are indications of much longer ago, but not feeling like checking the stats again, I'm leaving it at a safe and very highly accepted time range.

    At first, animals were domesticated for working and food purposes - because humans will use anything on the planet to make their lives easier -- kinda like most societies have had slavery of other humans. Of course, even slave owners loved some humans right at the same time that they abused others.

    Somewhere along the way - people found out that certain animals can be very good friends of ours.

    I am going to agree that certain animals are not meant to be in captivity, and I do not support the ownership of exotic pets. Their cognitive processes and social orientations are not usually situated to enjoy captivity even when well cared for. Some animals, however, are extremely happy with their relationships with their humans.

    It is now known that communication is an instinct that all creatures share. We can learn to understand them just as they can learn to understand us. The memory system of animals such as dogs and cats are departmentalized just as ours are. The department of the memory that works the strongest is the emotional department. This fact is logical since it is often our memory of our emotions relative to past episodes that determine how we make decisions about new data. If something proves to cause bad emotions, avoiding that particular thing will become instinctual in the animal (or human - that is why some people can't go near success even when wholy qualified in every way, they have subconsciously recorded success as a "danger"). Now, when something makes a creature happy and gives it good emotions, it will see that object as beneficial and want access to that object.

    Now with that said - animals, as well as humans, have emotions. Period.

    A dog and a human - both able to communicate - both creatures with emotional dispositions - both with similar natural social instincts. And you find something wrong with our co-existence?

    My business/hobby/avocation/vocation - my whole lifestyle revolves around going out into wild areas. My dog and I were together all the time out there. He could have run away at any time. Why didn't he? I could leave my door open when I left the house and when I got home, my dog would still be in the house - all three of them. They could have left. Why didn't they?
    When I was grieved, my dogs would come and nuzzle and put their heads in my lap - that is more care than you can get out of half the human population. Did I love my dog(s) in return? I risked my life to save Munchie. That's a lot more than I would have done for you in the same situation. Would I do that for some "artificial affection"? No, I did it because he was the most important person in my life and I loved him dearly. He died about 8 months ago and I still miss him every day of my life. I feel absolutely blessed that there is a little guy who needs me where I am now. We became fast friends when I got here and we have wonderful times together. I show him things he's never seen and he's learning to understand what I am saying to him. I understand a lot of what he tries to tell me, too, now.

    We did everything together - if you would have seen his joy when I would ask if he wanted to go "swimming", "hiking", or for a "big go"(which included camping with all the rest), you would not have dared to ask a question as stupid as if he were happy being my dog. If you would have seen him run and retrieve the things we needed to go where I asked if he wanted to - you'd not have asked any questions about if he understood what I had said. and..........
    If it were you that he had found when you were lost or dug you out of an avalanche, you'd have no questions about whether humans and dogs can make wonderful companions or not.

    What you have indicated in the OP is that you are completely unaware of the fact that there are different sorts of animals and that some are very well paired with humans. You have no understanding of the social structures or cognitive systems of the most popular pet animals, and have no ability to feel a very central emotional system of both humans and pack animals. I have met many people who thought they did not, could not love a pet - but were soon convinced that they were wrong. Those of us who do love our animals as family members do not appreciate the shallow and completely clueless insinuation that our affections are "artificial". I have been able to assume that about some husbands/wives - but I would never assume that about someone I saw out and about with a well cared for, smiling, and responsive dog.

    Furthermore - I always listened to my dog about who not to go near. He always was right. Somehow I get the feeling that Munchie, Blitz, and Kayne would have had the same thing to tell me about you had any of them met you. I just hope for your safety you don't feel inclined to see anyone else's pets as good for nothing but a food source. Dogs know that type of thing and you might find out that they might not be the one on the menu if that is what you think about them. They will know - and so will the pet's human. Trust me on that one.

    Now -- if all that isn't quite good enough for your stoic interests, then think about this ---
    Humans have all but dessicated many natural animal habitats. Many species are now going extinct due to loss of their habitats. What exactly do you presume might happen if everyone just let all of their animals loose into the environment? Many would die of elements they are no longer naturalized to withstand. Many would perish from starvation. Many contained diseases would become rampant -- -and a pack of wild starving dogs isn't pleasant to face when you are out somewhere. Dogs ARE canines - and would develop just as wolves and coyotes, but there would be MILLIONS of them. Perhaps you would get to see what a dog is once it loses it's domestication. You probably would not survive to tell about it. Cats? Same thing. In the wild they carry some pretty nasty diseases and while they don't fair badly in the wild, put millions out there and you have a severe problem on your hands even before their sheer numbers drive them out of natural food sources.

    I hope you understand the cyber world much better than you understand the real one and how animals and humans can live together in relationships beneficial for both species. If not........well..........sucks to be you.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      OP Dude -

      If you want to know how most of us feel about our dogs - watch the video at Dogs Rule|My Dogs Rule . It's my site and I was just looking at it and realized that says more than I could say in words.

      kay
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      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

      I'm going to work on being less condescending
      (Condescending means to talk down to people)
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Perry
    If anything after reading this ridiculous thread (which is just a ploy to get people to read his religious propaganda garbage on EZA), I love my dog more. I was just going through all the pictures i've taken of him and thought i'd share my favourite.

    This is Wendel back when he was 2 months old...he's 7 months old now:

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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    It's not just domesticated animals who bond with humans either.


    Regarding your constant referrals to our furred, feathered and finned family members (for that is what they are) as "life-forms", does that you a no-life form?
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    Why do garden gnomes smell so bad?
    So that blind people can hate them as well.
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