UK's debt is worse than we thought. A lot worse...

14 years ago

YIKES! Take into account the current exchange rate and per capita, the UK debt will probably be about twice the US debt by the end of the year! Of course, there may be a higher percentage of workers in the UK, etc, but nobody in the US is honest about that and I don't know about the UK.

If you are to believe relative GDP, the UK is STILL behind, again allowing for population.

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2345753].message }}

John Henderson

14 years ago

I can't get too political Steve, but now that the UK has a new government, we're getting a whole new picture of what's happened to the country's finances in the last 10 years.

Not only does the UK have a couple of vast black holes in its public sector pension system and state pension system, but the number of people retiring is set to rise dramatically as more of the baby boomers get to retirement age.

From the mid-nineties until recently, the mantra of this country has been "We'll pay for it tomorrow, we'll pay for it tomorrow...". Well, "tomorrow" has arrived, and it's time to pay up. I guess we're about to find out whether we can cover the cost or not...

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2345854].message }}

MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

14 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2346137].message }}

John Henderson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

The country is pretty much bankrupt, a few of us have been saying this for ages.

The whole system has been set up on a foundation of sand.

When the rains come, the winds howl, the whole pack of cards will come tumbling down. Some architects huh?

This country cannot now recover from the mess we're in - period.

We'll be paying for this for a few decades to come.

Mark, I was on a small business course at the University of Teesside in October 2006, when I got into a conversation about the housing bubble with a couple of the other attendees.

My contribution was very pessimistic: "I don't know how long this bubble is going to last, but when it bursts, we'll be talking about the aftermath for 50 years". I got a few funny looks for making such a dark prediction, because at that time you could still get a 125% mortgage with no deposit... :rolleyes:

So I totally agree that this isn't going to be solved by Christmas.

Originally Posted by MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

The recession is only now starting to bite.

The first phase of the recession actually put more money in people's pockets, lower interest rates on mortgages etc and some lower prices mean't there was more money in people's pockets than at first was believed to be the case.

On the other hand, the recovery from the recession, which should be a positive thing, will be worse because interest rates inevitably have to rise not to mention the increase soon of VAT to 20%.

This will have a serious knock on effect on lower income families and unemployment is also set to rise dramatically in the next 3-5 years.

What with benefit cuts and cuts across the entire public sector system, everyone is going to feel the pinch more and more.

This is just the start of the slippery slope.

Another 2-3 years and the number of unemployed in this country will be close to 3.5 million. More if you include the real stats of part timers working on minimum wage, who will be worse off than those on benefits.

The country is in a hell of a bad state.

We're in for a rocky ride here.

Yes, it's strange. I noticed today that some newspapers were cheerfully reporting that house prices have started to rise again. Have we learned nothing? I have friends who have actually got deeper into debt in the past year or so. If ever there was a time to frantically clear your debts, 'now' has to be it.

As you say, taxes are due to be increased and interest rates can't stay this low forever. Public sector cuts will be pretty savage, and this will have knock-on effects for private sector companies who sell to the public sector. Benefit cuts will also be pretty deep, although I do think that greedy landlords are the ones cashing-in from the colossal quantity of housing benefit that's currently being handed out.

So yeah, I wish I could disagree with your stark conclusion Mark, but I can't. I think we'll be lucky if we suffer a deep recession, because the possibility of a full-blown depression is real.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2346873].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John Henderson

Not only does the UK have a couple of vast black holes in its public sector pension system and state pension system, but the number of people retiring is set to rise dramatically as more of the baby boomers get to retirement age.

From the mid-nineties until recently, the mantra of this country has been "We'll pay for it tomorrow, we'll pay for it tomorrow...". Well, "tomorrow" has arrived, and it's time to pay up. I guess we're about to find out whether we can cover the cost or not...

We have that SAME problem!

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2346164].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

How do your leaders in the UK plan to get the country out of the mess???

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2346356].message }}

Kay King

14 years ago

I don't think the UK is alone in this - there are some serious wakeup calls coming in the next year or two.

Putting off confronting the problem only allows it to worsen.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog

***

One secret to happiness is to let every situation be

what it is instead of what you think it should be.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2346364].message }}

John Henderson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I don't think the UK is alone in this - there are some serious wakeup calls coming in the next year or two.

Putting off confronting the problem only allows it to worsen.

Hi Kay,

We've already had a big wake up call in Europe: Greece. Even though the political elite on mainland Europe is usually pretty complacent, the Greek situation put a rocket right up their backsides.

After announcing draconian austerity measures, Greece was bailed out by Germany. But the Germans warned that this wasn't a trick they could perform twice -- if Portugal, Spain or Italy started to falter, they were on their own. Brown underwear time!

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2347000].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

How do your leaders in the UK plan to get the country out of the mess???

He already said!

Forgive me if this is the wrong song, etc... but I am flying blind!

TOMORROW

Aw, what the heck, HERE are the words...

[ANNIE]
The sun'll come out
Tomorrow
Bet your bottom dollar
That tomorrow
There'll be sun!

Just thinkin' about
Tomorrow
Clears away the cobwebs,
And the sorrow
'Til there's none!

When I'm stuck with a day
That's gray,
And lonely,
I just stick out my chin
And Grin,
And Say,
Oh!

The sun'll come out
Tomorrow
So ya gotta hang on
'Til tomorrow
Come what may
Tomorrow! Tomorrow!
I love ya Tomorrow!
You're always
A day
A way!

In political terms, this is like the song "I'll be home for christmas". You know the song! It makes it sound like all is great, he'll be there, etc.... and ends "If ONLY IN MY DREAMS"! In other words, maybe I WON'T be home, but I WILL be thinking about you!

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2346369].message }}

HeySal

14 years ago

That's what happens when you have a world bank that runs on paper instead of metal. Interest money is not actually extant so it CAN'T actually be paid off - all that can happen is debt will grow. None of it's real, but allows the bank to control the world (which is why it is called world bank). Go to their website and just troll through the stuff they are funding worldwide - if you have a long time to cruise the list. All of that is funded via paper - all of it charging interest money, interest money is non-extant under their system and CAN'T be paid back, it can only incur more debt (I'm speaking from the macro level, not the household level). So what you end up with is worldwide debt slavery.

There is a movement in the US to go back to metal backed money. How surprised our people are going to be if that happens and they find out there is not any more gold left in Ft. Knox other than enough to show people who tour the place.

Oh yeah - we're in a mess, too.

I'll be out panning in a few days. A couple of grams at a time is better than none at all when it all falls down.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2346420].message }}

John Henderson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

There is a movement in the US to go back to metal backed money. How surprised our people are going to be if that happens and they find out there is not any more gold left in Ft. Knox other than enough to show people who tour the place.

Want to hear something funny? When our previous Prime Minister was Chancellor of the Exchequer (="Secretary to the Treasury"), he sold 60% of the country's gold reserves when the price of gold was at an historic low. Since then, the price of gold has trebled.

It would be comical, if it wasn't so totally tragic.

Brown lost £2bn selling UK's gold - Times Online

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2347123].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John Henderson

Want to hear something funny? When our previous Prime Minister was Chancellor of the Exchequer (="Secretary to the Treasury"), he sold 60% of the country's gold reserves when the price of gold was at an historic low. Since then, the price of gold has trebled.

It would be comical, if it wasn't so totally tragic.

Brown lost £2bn selling UK's gold - Times Online

But that was a GIVEN! he sold a tangible asste backing the money, and expected the money to STILL have the same value!?!?!? Gold didn't go up, the pound went DOWN!

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2347343].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

That's not the answer I was looking for.

John Henderson spoke of the problem of putting things off until tomorrow.

Well he claims tomorrow is here and my question is ....

...what do they plan to do about it???

How do they plan to attack the situation??

TL

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2346423].message }}

John Henderson 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

How do your leaders in the UK plan to get the country out of the mess???

Hi there, TL.

The first course of action of the new government has been massive, massive cost-cutting. The media speculated that government departments might be asked by the Treasury to brace themselves for (gasp!) 25% cuts to their budgets. When the Treasury made its announcement, it told all government departments (apart from Dept. of Health -- some cows are too sacred) to prepare spending plans that allowed for 40% cuts to their budgets.

As a result, the Secretary of State for Education has had to apologise in the House of Commons for announcing that there are 130 planned schools which now won't be built -- because after a re-count, it's actually 150 schools, and counting...

The second course of action will be tax rises. This is very uncomfortable for the Conservative part of the coalition government because historically, they're the tax-cutting party. But in the new year, the government has warned that sales tax will rise from 17.5% to 20%.

But until then, there will be some more borrowing to bridge the gap until the spending cuts and the tax rises take hold and begin to reduce the country's debts.
- [ 1 ] Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2346960].message }}

MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

14 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2346838].message }}

MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

14 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2347060].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

A little off topic...

Jordan Maxwell, some of his analogies are skewed here but essentially everything he speaks about from 20 minutes onwards in this video is pretty much on the ball.

Watch this from 20 minutes in - to the end. It might be a bit of an eye opener for one or two of you interested in this subject.

And if you can, check out Americans - your original birth certificate to see who really owns you.

YouTube - Government Conspiracies - World of Lies - Award Winning Documentary

Your mother at your birth was merely the informant to the banks who own you as stock, within the corporation of the United States of America.

Note, I typed the United States of America and not just America. They are two different and entirely separate entities.

One is a corporation of which you have a president, the other is not.

You may think all you like, that you own you, your physical body. No. You just live inside your body but you do not have complete ownership of your body.

The bank, the corporation owns your physical body as stock.

Do your own research and check out the facts for yourself.

Dig a little deeper and what you think is truth is as far from truth as it's possible to get.

If you wanted to tell a lie to deceive billions...

Where would you put that lie?

Would you put this lie as far out in the open as possible, somewhere glaringly distinct and obvious so everybody could see the deception or...?

Would you put it right underneath people's noses, where they least expected it to be?

Everything in the very large scale scheme of things, the puppet masters, the string pullers - everything is not what it seems to be on the surface.

Who is controlling who today?

Do your own research and see what conclusions you draw.

Best,

Mark Andrews...

Thanks for wasting 20 minutes of my mind with an extra wild Konspiracy theory.

Who is this idiot???? ( in the clip )

and...

How stupid does he think we are??

I have no doubt the British oligarchs have been trying to dip into American riches since we sent them home but this stuff about actual ownership of my body is silly.

Yea, powerful nefarious forces have been chumping at the bit to take total control of America since day 1 and bleed us dry but have been held at bay for most of our existence as a nation.

- We had a big ripoff leading to the great depression but...

... after WW2 living standards rose higher than any nation in history in terms of actual standards and in terms of percentage of folks living well.

That lasted until the nation embarked on a new course - starting about 1980 and it's been downhill from there.

Fast forward to 2008...

Another massive ripoff.

10-15 million jobs lost as a result.

The nation is in big trouble but we'll get out of it and bounce back stronger than ever.

Is this from the same crowd running talking about someone has taken out an insurance policy of 1 million dollars on every US citizen???

Dude hates the British oligarchs - that's for sure and he has good reason.

You Brits may know your station in life but that stuff doesn't work around here.

TL

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2347327].message }}

MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

14 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2347349].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

TLTheLiberator

I didn't exactly post up what I wrote in praise of this country, quite the opposite.

Lets see your proof that what has been stated, is not true.

That was written for the benefit of Americans and not for any other reason. :rolleyes:

Let's see your proof that what that crackpot said is true.

The dude really didn't say much except blathering about...

- The Queen is out to get us?

- Something about some maritime law?

- Something about our names typed in uppercase as some type of proof??

- Something about judges sitting on the bench which means bank in Latin???

Spare me.

TL

Thanks

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2347679].message }}

MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

14 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2347793].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

If you have so little real interest in the subject, perhaps you might like to stop spamming the forum yourself, with such useless replies picking holes wherever possible just for the sake of it, to make others look stupid in your over inflated egotistical opinion.

This is a forum.

If you or anyone else makes a point that IMHO I deem ridiculous or flat out wrong, I have to respond.

I believe you also uttered this stuff about Americans being owned by the Queen and/or the City Of London during our 4th of July.

This time I couldn't resist.

As you requested, I actually listened to the dude and as far as I'm concerned he said nothing to prove anything.

My over inflated egotistical opinion:

I'm more than willing to concede a point if it is warranted.

But this time I just couldn't resist.

As far as spamming is concerned, I don't have a signature if that's what you're talking about.

I'll try my best to stay out of your way so that you can carry on.

All The Best!!

TL

Thanks

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2347924].message }}

mattlaclear

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

TLTheLiberator

I didn't exactly post up what I wrote in praise of this country, quite the opposite.

Lets see your proof that what has been stated, is not true.

That was written for the benefit of Americans and not for any other reason. :rolleyes:

You tell your Queeney and her darling son Charlie that anytime they would like to come collect on their property we'll leave the light on for them.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Free Training for SEO Providers in the United States - https://happyseoclients.com/happy-seo-clients-training/

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2359084].message }}

John Henderson 14 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

You tell your Queeney and her darling son Charlie that anytime they would like to come collect on their property we'll leave the light on for them.

Oh, I doubt that you'll be hearing from Her Majesty. She already has a little "pied-à-terre" in North America....
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2365425].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

TL,

Countries figure they OWN "their own people", so what is REALLY so unreasonable about the prospect of another figuring THEY do? And when I say this, I mean ALL people recorded as citizens, it has NOTHING to do with race, etc... Just look around. You can't REALLY OWN land or a home, your food is controlled to a degree, you can't go to various places. You can't even get compensated for WORK unless THEY agree! TRY IT! If you become a doctor, and work in a place after buying a home/land there, and ONLY get chickens and milk, do you know what the law says!?!?!? They will determine how much the chickens and milk WOULD have cost, if you bought them, and insist on TAX! If you DON'T pay the tax, they will take the home and land! HECK, the US wouldn't even allow indians to live as they do if they didn't have a treaty. The amish have a similar sort of arrangement. And the amish agreement is general, so it "doesn't favor one religion", but it has dates and stipulations that mean that I would never be able to use it.

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2347461].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

TL,

Countries figure they OWN "their own people", so what is REALLY so unreasonable about the prospect of another figuring THEY do? And when I say this, I mean ALL people recorded as citizens, it has NOTHING to do with race, etc... Just look around. You can't REALLY OWN land or a home, your food is controlled to a degree, you can't go to various places. You can't even get compensated for WORK unless THEY agree! TRY IT! If you become a doctor, and work in a place after buying a home/land there, and ONLY get chickens and milk, do you know what the law says!?!?!? They will determine how much the chickens and milk WOULD have cost, if you bought them, and insist on TAX! If you DON'T pay the tax, they will take the home and land! HECK, the US wouldn't even allow indians to live as they do if they didn't have a treaty. The amish have a similar sort of arrangement. And the amish agreement is general, so it "doesn't favor one religion", but it has dates and stipulations that mean that I would never be able to use it.

Steve

Who mentioned race???

( Oh, you again )

What are you talking about in relation to what Mark was talking about??

OK, we are not totally 100% free to do everything we like as we like but does that make us owned by anyone??

I think not in spite of your semantic gymnastics.

TL

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2347721].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Who mentioned race???

( Oh, you again )

What are you talking about in relation to what Mark was talking about??

OK, we are not totally 100% free to do everything we like as we like but does that make us owned by anyone??

I think not in spite of your semantic gymnastics.

TL

The way you spoke earlier, I figured I would be preemptive if I were talking about a lack of freedom.

Well, when people act like the own you and sometimes follow it up with even JAIL, you certainly start to FEEL like it.

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2347967].message }}

MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

14 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2347984].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

TL you misinterpreted my intentions before, as you are also doing here again now.

Why do you have to be so argumentative?

Why do you feel the need to so control other people's intake of information, as though you were Orwell's thought police?

Why can't you just allow others to discuss issues reasonably, without resorting to trying to do your best to make others look or appear stupid?

It just gets too silly for words when it goes like this, always seeking to put others in their place.

You don't speak for everyone, if you don't like my posts, just ignore them.

Problem solved.

I'll simply say...

Your interpretation and characterization of what has transpired in this thread between us is most interesting, insightful and I respectfully disagree with them - if you don't mind.

TL

Thanks

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2348118].message }}

Lawrh

14 years ago

Just kill the Rothies. Problem solved.

This is far more relevant and a suitable metaphor for government spending.

'Walls of fat' removed from London's sewers - Home News, UK - The Independent

Thanks

Signature

â€œStrategy without action is a day-dream; action without strategy is a nightmare.â€ â€“ Old Japanese proverb -

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2347839].message }}

gareth

14 years ago

Its part of the singularity

Debt will grow exponentially until it implodes into nothing

So don't worry

Thanks

Signature

Gareth M Thomas
Serial Entrepreneur
Auckland, New Zealand
http://twitter.com/gareththomasnz
http://www.freefitnessguru.com/blog
http://flickr.com/freefitnessguru

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2347904].message }}

sloanjim

14 years ago

Labour absolutely ballsed this place up. What a bunch of idiots running the country. No wonder Eastern European flock here for benefits and free NHS care...they swamp through Germany/France/Holland to get to hte "Lane of Milk and Honey"

TAX, VAT, everything is going up big style and wait till the big cuts bight in 2011.

MP (crimninal B***'s) have told us our grand childen wil lbe paying for this.

GREAT!

Thanks

Signature

15 Minute Forex Bar Trading System Free at
http://www.fxscalpingmethod.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2350070].message }}

sloanjim

14 years ago

Hoe else? Tax us more and make big cutbacks..maybe they should stop these "oil wars" in the Middle East (£1Billion a month)?

How do your leaders in the UK plan to get the country out of the mess???

Thanks

Signature

15 Minute Forex Bar Trading System Free at
http://www.fxscalpingmethod.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2350076].message }}

sloanjim

14 years ago

BULL! It was pure greed and mis-management that lead to this mess:

And bringing this back to on topic once again...

The future repercussions of this fallout and so-called recovery, a disguised 'recession' the effects will be here for generations to come.

This is a pivotal moment in modern history.

Everything is not as straightforward as it appears - this economic downturn was planned years in advance, as part of a much bigger strategy for world control and dominance.

Although on the surface, many may find it difficult to comprehend that a recession such as this one plays into the hands of the powers that be, believe you me, when I state that we are only now seeing the unfolding of a much larger picture / plan at work.

Many events will make up the overall jigsaw puzzle, each in their part, playing into a much greater master plan.

Meanwhile, everything on the surface level will play out as it's been designed to do so for some time to come although there are some extremely interesting and a little unnerving events on the short term horizon, events which have still to be played out.

The 'gods' are playing with a wicked pack of cards.

Public communication satellite technology will be one of the next things to go within the next 3 years hence bringing forth a further excuse for people (plebs) to depend on the military for their sense of personal freedom and safety. (Think FEMA camps)

We're already starting to see the beginning of this transformation with America now restricting access to certain websites, very similar to the Chinese.

On an everyday level, 'It's life Jim, but not as we know it'.

Buckle up for the ride ahead and hang onto your seats for dear life.

Thanks

Signature

15 Minute Forex Bar Trading System Free at
http://www.fxscalpingmethod.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2350083].message }}

inspiro

14 years ago

Ouch that's crazy. I hope taxes don't get higher, I'm moving there later this year!

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

▌InspiroHost :: Shared Web Hosting
▌Servers in New York, Chicago and London.
▌Try our Blog Hosting, Online Portfolio and Firebird SQL services.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2350147].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by inspirohost

Ouch that's crazy. I hope taxes don't get higher, I'm moving there later this year!

APPARENTLY most other places, including the UK, ARE going to start cutting back. People won't like it, and I don't know the full effect, but that is what I have heard.

TAXES, however, might not be reduced, and MIGHT go up.

The GOOD news is that, if what I have heard is right, things will gradually get better, and MAYBE taxes will come DOWN!

The US, though asked otherwise, has decided to RAISE expenses.

ICSM....

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2350183].message }}

John Henderson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

APPARENTLY most other places, including the UK, ARE going to start cutting back. People won't like it, and I don't know the full effect, but that is what I have heard.

TAXES, however, might not be reduced, and MIGHT go up.

Oh Steve, here in the UK we're way past the guessing stage -- we now know what's coming down the track...

BBC News - Budget: Osborne's 'tough' package puts VAT up to 20%

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2350346].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John Henderson

Oh Steve, here in the UK we're way past the guessing stage -- we now know what's coming down the track...

BBC News - Budget: Osborne's 'tough' package puts VAT up to 20%

What are the tax rates like in the UK??

Your lowest??

Middle??

Highest?? ( isn't that like almost 70%???? )

On top of the normal taxes you have a VAT which applies to purchases also right??

TL

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2350411].message }}

John Henderson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

What are the tax rates like in the UK??

Your lowest??

Middle??

Highest?? ( isn't that like almost 70%???? )

On top of the normal taxes you have a VAT which applies to purchases also right??

Income tax on earnings up to £6,500/year = 0%
Between £6,500 and £37,400 = 20%
Between £37,400 and £150,000 = 40%
Above £150,000 = 50%
(Multiply by 1.5 to get approximate value in US$)

VAT is our national sales tax. Most food is exempt from VAT, as are books and children's clothes. Domestic fuel supplies (gas, electric) are VAT rated at 5%. Everything else is rated at 17.5%, until the end of this year.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2350511].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John Henderson

Income tax on earnings up to £6,500/year = 0%
Between £6,500 and £37,400 = 20%
Between £37,400 and £150,000 = 40%
Above £150,000 = 50%
(Multiply by 1.5 to get approximate value in US$)

VAT is our national sales tax. Most food is exempt from VAT, as are books and children's clothes. Domestic fuel supplies (gas, electric) are VAT rated at 5%. Everything else is rated at 17.5%, until the end of this year.

Do you folks pay any local taxes on top of the national taxes???

TL

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2350537].message }}

John Henderson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Do you folks pay any local taxes on top of the national taxes???

We pay "council tax" -- this pays for local services like garbage collection, libraries, social services, council-run old folks' homes, etc. The amount that a household pays is determined by their property and neighbourhood.

We also pay "duty" (another word for 'tax') on petrol and diesel. About 65% of the price that we pay at the pumps is tax. We didn't pay a tax on car insurance payments until the last government decided that we should, so there's another tax. Alcohol and cigarettes are heavily taxed. Interest on savings is taxed. Depending upon your income, the government 'generously' offers some tax relief on pension contributions.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2350602].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John Henderson

We pay "council tax" -- this pays for local services like garbage collection, libraries, social services, council-run old folks' homes, etc. The amount that a household pays is determined by their property and neighbourhood.

We also pay "duty" (another word for 'tax') on petrol and diesel. About 65% of the price that we pay at the pumps is tax. We didn't pay a tax on car insurance payments until the last government decided that we should, so there's another tax. Alcohol and cigarettes are heavily taxed. Interest on savings is taxed. Depending upon your income, the government 'generously' offers some tax relief on pension contributions.

Well, I DID hear that the UK was the inspiration for the beatles "the tax man"...

the taxman

YEAH FOLKS, THAT'S what you get when you post things blindly! I showed propaganda, FIGURES! And YEP, ICSM! THIS was what I wanted to post!

BTW HOW can you trust someone that says "beatles for ever", and has a "beatles taxman video", and makes it propaganda!?!?!? THIS one, ironically, DOESN'T sound like the poster is good but...

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2350810].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John Henderson

Oh Steve, here in the UK we're way past the guessing stage -- we now know what's coming down the track...

BBC News - Budget: Osborne's 'tough' package puts VAT up to 20%

Well, I wasn't talking about VAT. Yeah, I doubt they would reduce that. I wouldn't even have brought up NON VAT tax but I sounded like I was talking about it, so I basically said NOPE! I was talking about expenses.

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2350547].message }}

HeySal

14 years ago

Everything is not as straightforward as it appears - this economic downturn was planned years in advance, as part of a much bigger strategy for world control and dominance.

Forget it dude. Several of us tried months ahead of the start of the crash to tell people this was coming, we even nailed it down to the month that it would hit - September. I was told I wear a tinfoil hat then, and then everyone was surprised when it happened, duh - now nobody remembers anyone said anything to them about it beforehand.

Incidentally - My Birth Certificate shows I have a mother and father, not witnesses - not sure when they started that crap but I believe it may have been 1972 when they stopped backing money with metal completely.
Anyhow - don't bother with it. Nobody is going to listen and when you turn out right, for some reason they won't remember anyone told them anything.
Americans have memory spans of goldfish.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2350378].message }}

ThomM 14 years ago

So ya'll finally caught up to us.
As the saying goes, "welcome to our world".

Americans have memory spans of goldfish.

Speak for yourself, girl
- [ 1 ] Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature

Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
Getting old ain't for sissy's
As you are I was, as I am you will be
You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2350393].message }}
- HeySal 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ThomM
  
  So ya'll finally caught up to us.
  As the saying goes, "welcome to our world".
  
  Speak for yourself, girl
  
  Okay - not all Americans. Yours is healthier than most though, Thom. But ya know dude -- um..........you ain't normal!:p
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  Sal
  When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
  Beyond the Path
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2359048].message }}

Kurt

14 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Forget it dude. Several of us tried months ahead of the start of the crash to tell people this was coming, we even nailed it down to the month that it would hit - September. I was told I wear a tinfoil hat then, and then everyone was surprised when it happened, duh - now nobody remembers anyone said anything to them about it beforehand.

Incidentally - My Birth Certificate shows I have a mother and father, not witnesses - not sure when they started that crap but I believe it may have been 1972 when they stopped backing money with metal completely.
Anyhow - don't bother with it. Nobody is going to listen and when you turn out right, for some reason they won't remember anyone told them anything.
Americans have memory spans of goldfish.

I read about the likely real estate crash 4-5 years ago in the local Las Vegas newspaper. The indepth report showed how INVESTORS (not low income families) were buying up all the real estate, causing artificially high prices.

These were new-age investors that were impatient and thought that real estate would out perform the stock market.

The problem is/was, once prices rose, they were the only ones buying houses at those artificial high prices, so now those home values started to drop and there became a huge gap in what money was owed on the mortgages and how much real vaule the homes have. This was pretty much just like the stock market crash when people had more money tied up in debt than their stocks were worth.

And since Las Vegas and the entire SW USA had/have the most foreclusres (along with FLA), I'd say the Las Vegas study used the right data set for their predictions.

As it turns out, these predictions were correct. ACORN members actually have a LOWER default rate than average. And homes that cost over $1.2 million have a higher foreclosure rate than homes that cost under $750,000.

$750,000 is signifigant because there are no federal programs for financing homes that cosdt more than $750,000, so it isn't the poor people using government backed loans that they can't afford, it was the investors with 2, 3 and four homes on mortgage.

This was predicted years ago and the latest stats proves these predictions to have been correct.

Just because a prediction is made for something to happen such as a big, organized conspiracy bringing down the economy, and then it happens, doesn't mean the cause and effect are correct.

I say the cause was nothing more than greed by the loan companies willing to loan money so easily and the investors that thought they could print cash by borrowing to buy lots of real estate, and not the result of some major scheme.

Thanks

Signature

Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2360333].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Thanks, I now have a better picture of what you folks are dealing with.

TL

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2350629].message }}

John Henderson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Thanks, I now have a better picture of what you folks are dealing with.

To borrow Steve's phrase, I "could say more", but I'll just leave you with a link...

The Bumper Book of Government Waste 2008: Brown's...

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2353438].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John Henderson

To borrow Steve's phrase, I "could say more", but I'll just leave you with a link...

The Bumper Book of Government Waste 2008: Brown's Squandered Billions: Amazon.co.uk: Matthew Elliott, Lee Rotherham: Books

I LOVE it! I only NOW read some of it. The australian, derived from british, is neat. They sound SO calm, etc... while you can SENSE the SEATHING beneath! Yeah, the TPA has effectively an equally hated(though NOT by me) counterpart in the US, but it is as Tom Riddle's nom de guerre! SO, unlike Harry, I'll refrain.... But you guys are not alone. 8-(

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2360246].message }}

sloanjim

14 years ago

The GOOD news is that, if what I have heard is right, things will gradually get better, and MAYBE taxes will come DOWN!

I doubt it.Petrol is £1.17 per litre....$1.76 most of that is tax again.
N.I so healthcare isn't free.
Council tax....another £120 per month.

Tax and death...no "taxed to death!"

But PM's still claiming $10,000's for second homes, swimming pool cleaners, irons etc...

Radio a few weeks ago they said we were leaking about £70BN per annum from public spending..it was staggering how Labour ploughed money into projects. The big problems are coming in 2011 onwards.

Still how do we compare to the USA?

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

15 Minute Forex Bar Trading System Free at
http://www.fxscalpingmethod.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2360829].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sloanjim

I doubt it.Petrol is £1.17 per litre....$1.76 most of that is tax again.
N.I so healthcare isn't free.
Council tax....another £120 per month.

Tax and death...no "taxed to death!"

But PM's still claiming $10,000's for second homes, swimming pool cleaners, irons etc...

Radio a few weeks ago they said we were leaking about £70BN per annum from public spending..it was staggering how Labour ploughed money into projects. The big problems are coming in 2011 onwards.

Still how do we compare to the USA?

As far as taxes go...

On the federal level...

Taxes on folks making less than $250k per year are the lowest they've been in 60 years.

Taxes on the wealthy will go up to around 40% - from about 34%.

Some states have state income tax and some don't.

Most homeowners are paying a property tax.

I'm sure someone else here can detail all the taxes Americans pay better than I.

All The Best!!

TL

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2360884].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

As far as taxes go...

On the federal level...

Taxes on folks making less than $250k per year are the lowest they've been in 60 years.

Can you let the IRS and intuit know please? My last tax return begs to differ with your last statement!

Some states have state income tax and some don't.

They are STILL talking about a VAT!

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2360963].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Can you let the IRS and intuit know please? My last tax return begs to differ with your last statement!

They are STILL talking about a VAT!

Here's a couple of stories that might help you understand but you won't even admit that it's Mel Gibson on those tapes so what's the use in trying????

U.S. tax burden at lowest point in years - UPI.com

Tax bills in 2009 at lowest level since 1950 - USATODAY.com

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2361426].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Here's a couple of stories that might help you understand but you won't even admit that it's Mel Gibson on those tapes so what's the use in trying????

U.S. tax burden at lowest point in years - UPI.com

Tax bills in 2009 at lowest level since 1950 - USATODAY.com

You said, AND I QUOTE:

"Taxes on folks making less than $250k per year are the lowest they've been in 60 years."

The first link states a claim, and THAT IS IT! HEY, I could say the average income is $500K a few thousand times. It doesn't make it true.

That second link mentions NOTHING about 250K, and says that the lower tax rates are AVERAGED over EVERYONE! Well, almost 50% get an INCOME, rather than pay a tax!

Individual tax rates vary widely based on how much a taxpayer earns, where the person lives and other factors. On average, though, the tax rate paid by all Americans -- rich and poor, combined -- has fallen 26% since the recession began in 2007. That means a $3,400 annual tax savings for a household paying the average national rate and earning the average national household income of $102,000.

OK, so the title is a lie.

...
Why the tax bite has eased:

• Stimulus law. One-third of last year's $862 billion economic stimulus went for tax cuts. Biggest reduction: The Making Work Pay tax credit reduced income taxes $800 for married couples earning up to $150,000.

I'm not married, and $800 is the BIGGEST?

• Progressive tax rates. Presidents Clinton and Bush pushed through a series of tax changes -- credits, lower rates, higher exemptions -- that slashed income taxes for poor and middle-class families. A drop in income now can trigger big tax breaks and sharply lower rates, sometimes falling to zero.

Not current admin.

• Sales tax. Consumers cut spending sharply in this downturn, thereby paying less in sales taxes.

If you are going to count THIS, lets all QUIT, and make NO MORE money, and taxes will drop a LOT! I still buy as much, so taxes haven't dropped!

HEY, you said my taxes were lower, and they AREN'T! I simply want them to be lower if people make such claims. You don't have to convince ME, only intuit and the IRS!

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2361795].message }}

TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

You said, AND I QUOTE:

"Taxes on folks making less than $250k per year are the lowest they've been in 60 years."

The first link states a claim, and THAT IS IT! HEY, I could say the average income is $500K a few thousand times. It doesn't make it true.

That second link mentions NOTHING about 250K, and says that the lower tax rates are AVERAGED over EVERYONE! Well, almost 50% get an INCOME, rather than pay a tax!

OK, so the title is a lie.

I'm not married, and $800 is the BIGGEST?

Not current admin.

If you are going to count THIS, lets all QUIT, and make NO MORE money, and taxes will drop a LOT! I still buy as much, so taxes haven't dropped!

HEY, you said my taxes were lower, and they AREN'T! I simply want them to be lower if people make such claims. You don't have to convince ME, only intuit and the IRS!

Steve

OK, I'll throw out the $250K figure...

Quoting the story...

Federal, state and local income taxes consumed 9.2% of all personal income in 2009, the lowest rate since 1950,...

... the Bureau of Economic Analysis reports.

That rate is far below the historic average of 12% for the last half-century.

The overall tax burden hit bottom in December at 8.8.% of income before rising slightly in the first three months of 2010.

TL

Thanks

Signature

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2362007].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sloanjim

I doubt it.Petrol is £1.17 per litre....$1.76 most of that is tax again.
N.I so healthcare isn't free.
Council tax....another £120 per month.

Tax and death...no "taxed to death!"

But PM's still claiming $10,000's for second homes, swimming pool cleaners, irons etc...

Radio a few weeks ago they said we were leaking about £70BN per annum from public spending..it was staggering how Labour ploughed money into projects. The big problems are coming in 2011 onwards.

Still how do we compare to the USA?

Well, I heard we were spending only about $1Billion dollars......

A DAY!!!!!! Saying much more would be "politics"

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2360952].message }}

rchudej1

14 years ago

What do you expect from Politician? They never tell the truth, nothing but the truth!

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2360901].message }}

rchudej1

14 years ago

But the rich that is smart will never buy asset under their name. They will use their companies to buy them for tax purposes. Plus, they will already move majority of their wealth offshore!

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2360911].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by rchudej1

But the rich that is smart will never buy asset under their name. They will use their companies to buy them for tax purposes. Plus, they will already move majority of their wealth offshore!

Actually, that is illegal! Wealth moved offshore, for example, is supposed to be declared, etc... IRS Closing In On Offshore Accounts | Hartford Business

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2360975].message }}

PeterDunin

14 years ago

What does that mean for the country?

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2461651].message }}

ambitichx

14 years ago

The future of the United States appears bleak as well

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2461662].message }}

Kay King

14 years ago

I assume some have migrated this to US tax rather than the UK that was the topic.

Federal, state and local income taxes consumed 9.2% of all personal income in 2009, the lowest rate since 1950,...

Where did you find that number? The best way to look at the history of taxes is to look at number for mid-incomes (middle class) because you have many more who pay no taxes than top earners.

The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

If a percent is based on dividing taxes paid by those of working age....and there is a high unemployment rate at this time. That can skew the numbers that I've seen quoted as "fact" on some blogs.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog

***

One secret to happiness is to let every situation be

what it is instead of what you think it should be.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2461873].message }}

seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I assume some have migrated this to US tax rather than the UK that was the topic.

Where did you find that number? The best way to look at the history of taxes is to look at number for mid-incomes (middle class) because you have many more who pay no taxes than top earners.

The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

If a percent is based on dividing taxes paid by those of working age....and there is a high unemployment rate at this time. That can skew the numbers that I've seen quoted as "fact" on some blogs.

Yeah, you're right. I wish I were paying so little. Just my FEDERAL income tax far exceeds the 9.2% number.

The lower 50% REALLY skews the number wildly. It is about 1/5th as much as the top 50%, and they make an average of less than 16K, which is close to POVERTY.

And did you notice that it says only 141 of the 330 million have positive AGI!?!? So about 43% of US residents DON'T pay tax, and a fair amount may not have any income.

And just as a GENERAL statement please don't make this a party thing. EVERY president promised lower taxes, and I have been complaining from the moment I had to pay them.

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2462371].message }}

UK's debt is worse than we thought. A lot worse...

Trending Topics

How do I effectively build and nurture an email list for affiliate marketing purposes?

Been a while! Any of you Old Timers here?

How much does the rebranding affect CR ?

Are billboards still effective in driving customers?

Boat and Jet Ski Rentals...... Door Hangers Effective?