Sarcasm and know it alls when you are new to a forum

by Scott Ames 52 replies
Is it just human nature?

When I joined this forum I was blasted with sarcasm and people talking about me as if I wouldn't read it. As my posts grew into the thousands I rarely get blasted anymore.

Recently I became a newbie with 1 post on an auto forum. I posted a comment and several people posted snide remarks basically calling me an idiot. "You really joined a forum just to ask that? LOL " and "as the "man" sic in the family you should know .... "

I'll bet if I stayed there and had thousands of posts all the smart ass remarks would dry up. What is it with people? We are slow to welcome newbies and automatically assume they are fools.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Just think of it as internet hazing.
    People tend to see how much a newcomer will "take" before they either tuck tail and run or stand feet wide apart and say "go ahead,give me your best shot".
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Just think of it as internet hazing.
      People tend to see how much a newcomer will "take" before they either tuck tail and run or stand feet wide apart and say "go ahead,give me your best shot".
      Haha I never thought of it that way.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Jackson
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Just think of it as internet hazing.
      People tend to see how much a newcomer will "take" before they either tuck tail and run or stand feet wide apart and say "go ahead,give me your best shot".
      Why do that? Why not just embrace everyone with open arms, instead of painting everyone with the same broad brush? Makes you wonder, how many potentially good members are lurking, afraid to jump in for fear they might get attacked? Why play the games?

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      • Profile picture of the author KimW
        Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post

        Why do that? Why not just embrace everyone with open arms, instead of painting everyone with the same broad brush? Makes you wonder, how many potentially good members are lurking, afraid to jump in for fear they might get attacked? Why play the games?

        David Jackson
        I'm not sure I am following your post? Are you assuming that *I* do it?
        I didn't say I did it, I was answering the OPs question with what I felt was a possible correct answer.

        That being said, I am sure there are times I have jumped on people for their post, but if I do its because they deserve it, not because theya re new.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Jackson
          Originally Posted by KimW View Post

          I'm not sure I am following your post? Are you assuming that *I* do it?
          I didn't say I did it, I was answering the OPs question with what I felt was a possible correct answer.
          No. I wasn't accusing you or anyone else of doing that. I was simply asking rhetorically, why haze newbies?

          David Jackson
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post

            No. I wasn't accusing you or anyone else of doing that. I was simply asking rhetorically, why haze newbies?

            David Jackson
            David,

            I don't really think it's an intentional hazing. I think it's simply different philosophies between people just coming on to the Warrior Forum vs. those who have been here a while. I've been here since 2000 and I see it quite a bit.

            You DO get "know-it-all" newbies, as well as the "Dude, next time try the search feature..." crowd. When they get together, it's like oil and water.

            It's also personality. On line or off, we all have our way of looking at things or doing things and we form opinions and judgments of others (especially if they are new). Most of the time we can no more "control" that then control the sun coming up. At least not right away...

            I think in the long run, those who "survive" the hazing end up becoming awesome contributors to this forum. And also tend to become the next generation of hazers.

            I am generalizing here, by the way. Not trying to fit everyone into a specific category...
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            • Profile picture of the author David Jackson
              Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

              I don't really think it's an intentional hazing. I think it's simply different philosophies between people just coming on to the Warrior Forum vs. those who have been here a while. I've been here since 2000 and I see it quite a bit.
              Mike, let's suppose I accept your explanation. How do you explain the outright viciousness of some of the attacks? What I've witnessed actually qualifies as bullying. Again, I'm not pointing fingers at any one individual.

              I really don't expect you or anyone else to be able to answer that. More than anything, I'm just thinking out loud.

              David Jackson
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              • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post

                Mike, let's suppose I accept your explanation. How do you explain the outright viciousness of some of the attacks? What I've witnessed actually qualifies as bullying. Again, I'm not pointing fingers at any one individual.

                I really don't expect you or anyone else to be able to answer that. More than anything, I'm just thinking out loud.

                David Jackson
                Yes, I see that too. We're a community with a very large array of personalities, beliefs, motives, agendas, etc. Heck, sometimes it's simply an otherwise well behaved person having a very bad day.

                I don't see how you can have a community this large and NOT see it from time to time.

                I attribute it to human nature.

                Not saying it's right, or that I like it. But it is what it is. The truly vicious I simply report the post then promptly ignore them. After a while, when they don't get the attention they crave, they move on. Just in time for the next one
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                • Profile picture of the author David Jackson
                  Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

                  I attribute it to human nature.
                  Mike, I don't accept that. It's not human nature to act that viciously. Although, I'll concede, it may be the nature of some humans to act that way.

                  David Jackson
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                  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                    Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post

                    Mike, I don't accept that. It's not human nature to act that viciously. Although, I'll concede, it may be the nature of some humans to act that way.

                    David Jackson
                    When I say human nature, I do not mean ALL humans.

                    Maybe I should have said some humans also...

                    Ultimately, if it weren't human nature to some degree there would be no wars. And the masses would not derive some sort of pleasure from other people's misfortunes (watch any news program these days. It's largely bad because it sells. People want it).

                    Believe it or not, I am not as cynical as I must seem. I know there's a lot of good, here on this forum as well as out in the world. I try to keep my own rose colored glasses on most of the time. Makes the day better.
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                    • Profile picture of the author David Jackson
                      Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

                      Ultimately, if it weren't human nature to some degree there would be no wars. And the masses would not derive some sort of pleasure from other people's misfortunes (watch any news program these days. It's largely bad because it sells. People want it).
                      Mike, you make an excellent point. And for what it's worth, I don't think you're cynical at all.

                      David Jackson
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                You may not know the whole story behind what you think is an "attack". Often there are things going on below the surface that some people know about or recognize but others don't see.

                You may see it as "vicious" - but may not know the whole story, either. You've posted some pretty good rants yourself. Is rudeness to long time members acceptable?

                The only posts you control are those you make - and you've posted some rants yourself. If new members want respect - they must show respect. It's really that simple. We all get angry at times - it's human. But when you try to control the reactions of others, you will be angry a lot because you can't do it.

                If a new member is challenged on something posted - he has a choice of how to respond. Those who gain respect respond respectfully, apologize if they are wrong or explain further and go on from there. If you are so thin-skinned you can't take any criticism - you won't make it in IM.

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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Sadly it happens a lot in other forums I frequent much the same way you said.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    Originally Posted by Scott Ames View Post

    Is it just human nature?

    When I joined this forum I was blasted with sarcasm and people talking about me as if I wouldn't read it. As my posts grew into the thousands I rarely get blasted anymore.

    Recently I became a newbie with 1 post on an auto forum. I posted a comment and several people posted snide remarks basically calling me an idiot. "You really joined a forum just to ask that? LOL " and "as the "man" sic in the family you should know .... "

    I'll bet if I stayed there and had thousands of posts all the smart ass remarks would dry up. What is it with people? We are slow to welcome newbies and automatically assume they are fools.
    Are you kidding? After more than a few thousand posts you really needed to ask? Man...

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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
      Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

      Are you kidding? After more than a few thousand posts you really needed to ask? Man...

      LOL!!! OH man!
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      • Profile picture of the author blueboy9
        As a new WF member I can say that I've noticed some hazing here. However the hazing is not nearly as frustrating as having your posts constantly being deleted because the mods think you're a troll out for backlinks. I think the latest count on my deleted posts is around 11... this one will probably make it 12.
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        • Profile picture of the author mrmanpower
          forums are there for discussion and not all people are 'good' to talk to, besides just like any conversation it sometimes can come up that you are 'butting in' some people's threads etc.

          You should not be affected at all. It's like going up to a group of people and introducing yourself then you start making convo. no matter how nice/subtle you are 90% of the time you look like a know-it-all. So hopefully when you do this, be a know-it-all all the way. haha
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        • Profile picture of the author Alfred Shelver
          Don't worry there is no addition to your post count when you post in the Off topic forum. It is kind of fun that way

          Originally Posted by blueboy9 View Post

          not nearly as frustrating as having your posts constantly being deleted because the mods think you're a troll out for backlinks. I think the latest count on my deleted posts is around 11... this one will probably make it 12.
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  • Profile picture of the author Laura B
    I think people assume that a newbie to a forum is also a newbie to the subject of the forum. Doesn't make sense but even I've caught myself thinking that. I don't blast newbies with sarcasm (I hope!) but have seen it happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    I think some of that is being territorial and one reason I hate cliques. Forums can be really cliquey.

    When somebody treats me like that I just always remember Dylan:

    '...he just wants to get you down in the hole that he's in'.

    Then I feel better.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Jackson
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      I think some of that is being territorial and one reason I hate cliques. Forums can be really cliquey.

      When somebody treats me like that I just always remember Dylan:

      '...he just wants to get you down in the hole that he's in'.

      Then I feel better.
      I like that. Me? I have ice cream...butter almond. Yummy!

      David Jackson
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  • Profile picture of the author Broyde
    I think it is just a group of people's way of trying to find out what the new ones are like.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Hey, a LOT of newbies come here and THEY are sarcastic or knowitalls in their VERY first post! My favorite are the two guys I know of that told ALLEN(the OWNER of this site) that he was doing it all wrong and that THEY could help him! They suggested that he move the forum to the main domain! Well, NOW it is on the main domain, but that is AFTER things became SO public that there was NO POINT. And he then started monetizing it. In fact, the WAR ROOM is now a subforum that he CHARGES for.

    But, back then, it was supposed to be somewhat PRIVATE, and offered as a PREMIUM. He INTENTIONALLY put this in a subdirectory, and the main domain merely advertised it.

    His original goal didn't seem to be to start a forum. It was a premium on all his products, and even provided support for a hosting company he was a partner in.

    OTHERS promote illegal things, even OBVIOUS things like EMAIL SPAMMING, as if they are their original ideas.

    If someone makes such a comment after 200 worthwhile posts they will likely get a better response than they would on their first.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author David Jackson
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      Hey, a LOT of newbies come here and THEY are sarcastic or knowitalls in their VERY first post! My favorite are the two guys I know of that told ALLEN(the OWNER of this site) that he was doing it all wrong and that THEY could help him! They suggested that he move the forum to the main domain! Well, NOW it is on the main domain, but that is AFTER things became SO public that there was NO POINT. And he then started monetizing it. In fact, the WAR ROOM is now a subforum that he CHARGES for.
      Okay. But why are you still holding on to that? Generally those type of people don't last very long anyway. They end up destroying themselves. From the tone of your response, you still seem upset about it.

      David Jackson
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Steve,
    I think you'd be surprised how many are unaware that the forum started off as part of a paid membership site.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Steve,
      I think you'd be surprised how many are unaware that the forum started off as part of a paid membership site.
      NO, I KNOW most at this point are unaware. That is one reason why I keep providing a kind of history lesson.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        I think the challenge is that some small percentage of new folks don't expect to be spoken to like the more senior members are. They're often surprised by the general attitude of "tell it like it is." And when they get treated like everyone else, they scream bloody murder.

        And there is always the smaller percentage of "new" accounts that are the third or later reincarnation of someone who's already been banned in every previous Warrior life. There are not huge numbers of those people, but they're universally active and obnoxious. We had an example of that in the recent thread about John Reese's announcement.

        For the most part, though, I don't see newer folks receiving significantly different treatment than those who've been here a while. Unless they roll in with a pocket full of opinions they've mistaken for experience and start pushing them on people who know better. But then, even the most senior people will get called on that stuff.

        A side note to David Jackson: After some of your recent harangues, you are in no position to be lecturing anyone on forum etiquette.


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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Here's an interesting example of the sort of thing that gets "new" folks targeted:
          Internet Anonymity makes a lot of people into instant tough guys.
          This, from an anonymous non-entity with a link in his sig to a video about a serial rapist who never got caught.

          Oh, lookie! He appears to be on his third user account here. What a surprise...


          Paul

          Edit: Ooops. 4th account.
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          • Profile picture of the author GrantFreeman
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Here's an interesting example of the sort of thing that gets "new" folks targeted:This, from an anonymous non-entity with a link in his sig to a video about a serial rapist who never got caught.

            Oh, lookie! He appears to be on his third user account here. What a surprise...

            Paul

            Edit: Ooops. 4th account.
            Um..Ahhh.. A llllittle scary. Not sure what else to say about that.

            Grant
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  • Profile picture of the author mwashington
    I think no matter who it is or for what subject it is about, there has to be an element of respect given to everyone.I am always looking for knowledge and realize that my perspective might not be the only way to look at things. To be part of a forum and function within that forum there has to be a person with an open mind, very analytical, and able to dissect the information to accomodate different beliefs and personalities. Not every section of the forums is for everyone as well. It is important to give a person time to fit into his niche in the forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    IMO, it has nothing to do with the forum you're getting hazed in. But more to do with the fact that people are just naturally sarcastic and narcissistic these days. It's easier for them to display those traits when they're hiding behind their avatars and screen names. When someone new comes along who posts something they have already seen a million times it triggers those behaviors in them because they know you probably don't have a posse of other members backing you up. Once you get more posts people leave you be a bit more for that same reason. That's how I see it at least.
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Yeah...

    Cuz this really deserved a brand new thread for discussion, didn't it? :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    When n00bs come in with a genuine need for help, I never treat them like they're stupid. When they come in and are obviously trying to game the forum, they get what they deserve.

    Most of the messages that I see to well intentioned n00bs are polite and helpful. When it comes to honesty and transparency ... let's say a n00b is asking for opinions on his site. As politely as I can, I always give an honest opinion, even if that opinion is negative. But I do try to give him ideas on how to fix it. That's better for them than telling them everything is fine, when it is not.

    Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post

    Why do that? Why not just embrace everyone with open arms, instead of painting everyone with the same broad brush? Makes you wonder, how many potentially good members are lurking, afraid to jump in for fear they might get attacked? Why play the games?

    David Jackson
    The authority on Forum etiquette ... lol. Sorry, you reputation precedes this post.
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  • Profile picture of the author Epic Stephen
    Well Sadly but its true... you cant do to much about it
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Originally Posted by EAR-ONS View Post

    What's 4th user account?
    It is paul's way of saying you have 3 other accounts here. MOST forums allow ****ONE**** handle, and this is one of them. So it looks bad.

    I have no idea HOW he is determining that. There are only about 6 ways to detect such an account. 5 of them DO have problems. The sixth could also be considered problematic. Of course, the 5 that are problematic ARE made more definite over time.

    I WOULD be more detailed, but THEN people start trying to do things to defeat it. They will usually mess up though and get caught ANYWAY.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author EAR-ONS
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by EAR-ONS View Post

        Am I reading something ominous in your words?

        What are you saying?

        Paul is what?

        Is he a....I don't know....a hacker?

        He's capable of giving my computer a virus?

        You say he has 5 ways to detect how I would have
        other accounts on the warrior forum - and that 4 ways
        of finding out such a thing is....problematic?

        What do you mean by "problematic"?

        I'm a Layman....could you tell me again in even more
        simple terms what exactly you are saying?

        The guy who had the best-selling WSO in the history of
        The Warrior Forum was banned!
        NO, I doubt paul is a hacker. He IS a moderator. You can BET he has info WE aren't able to see. By problematic, I mean that ONE hit could be COINCIDENCE. TWO might be VERY suspicious. Four might basically SCREAM that the two accounts are the same. It is problematic because you need to get a large enough sample to be SURE the appearance isn't merely a coincidence.

        And NO, he wouldn't give your computer a virus, but he MIGHT ban you.

        As for his ccomment about your signature, he has a point. Ever hear of muchausen syndrome? It is a fact that some people do such things JUST to attract attention.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author EAR-ONS
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            SORRY, I slipped. It IS munchausen syndrome. A typical example would be a firefighter that sets a fire so he or she could report it and or save people, and look like a hero. In movies, sometimes a person will commit a serial crime or very bad crime so they can write a book or investigate it. SOME people confuse it with munchausen by proxy, but THAT is where a mother might poison her kid so she will get attention THROUGH their illness, for example.

            Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author EAR-ONS
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by EAR-ONS View Post

      Well, I don't care about his being privy to that kind of behind the scene information.

      If a person REALLY is paranoid, there are always Data Centers.

      Colocation.

      Foxy Proxy.

      VPS or DPS.

      Thank you.
      Well, that's one, MAYBE. It doesn't affect the others.

      Steve

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Steve,
        It is problematic because you need to get a large enough sample to be SURE the appearance isn't merely a coincidence.
        No, I don't. If the account is anonymous, all that's needed is that I'm suspicious. Banning a day-old account that doesn't have your real name somehow associated with it is not anything I'm going to give a lot of worry to.

        In this case, though, there was more than a "probable" connection. The likelihood of the accounts not being the same person is probably less than 1 in a hundred million.

        That's before you factor in his comment about "the best selling WSO in history."


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Steve,No, I don't. If the account is anonymous, all that's needed is that I'm suspicious. Banning a day-old account that doesn't have your real name somehow associated with it is not anything I'm going to give a lot of worry to.

          In this case, though, there was more than a "probable" connection. The likelihood of the accounts not being the same person is probably less than 1 in a hundred million.

          That's before you factor in his comment about "the best selling WSO in history."


          Paul
          I was going to say more, but I'm not trying to defeat your methods, or help others to. I don't have another account here so I don't care. Sometimes silence is best.

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author The Wanderer
    Oh look. Someone's made Paul a flambe for his birthday. Unfortunately it looks about as appetizing as the skewered scorpions on offer in China...

    Getting back to the original post, I don't hang around here all that much, but I don't think polite 'noobies' are particularly picked on here. Of course if you come in with a swagger or a chip on your shoulder you can be very sure that in a forum this size someone-- and probably many someones- is going to try and trip you up or knock that chip off.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
    I reported this almost an hour ago. The other mods must have gone home.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    I also reported it a while ago. Maybe others did, too.

    Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author Jerinjames
    Being sarcastic, is just the way we are.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Kennedy
    I do it quite a bit on the forums I frequent? Why? Because most of the questions "newbies" will ask have been explained to DEATH in the past and a simple search would provide them with hundreds of threads explaining the answer.

    If you are too lazy to search or "lurk" before posting, you deserve to be hazed or whatever you may call it. Not everything in life will be handled to you on a silver platter, do a bit of self research first.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Here's a perfect example ... or two perfect examples of why some newbies get flamed and fully deserve it.

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...much-work.html

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-web2-0-a.html
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      nobody's better than anybody...period!!!
      There are privileges that have to be earned. There are varying levels of skill at things. Pretending that differences don't exist is a poor way to make valid decisions.

      Coming in here and posting about "cash gifting," and dictating who may and may not respond to your thread, is equally ill-advised. When that combo is mixed with someone's first day bringing them to a bitchfest in offtopic... well, one assumes your intent was to get banned, so you can go elsewhere and gripe about it. I'll be happy to accommodate you.

      You're welcome.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Alfred Shelver
        Paul its your B-day take a few days off ... give the spammers and scammers a little leeway that way you can have lots of fun when you come back

        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        There are privileges that have to be earned. There are varying levels of skill at things. Pretending that differences don't exist is a poor way to make valid decisions.

        Coming in here and posting about "cash gifting," and dictating who may and may not respond to your thread, is equally ill-advised. When that combo is mixed with someone's first day bringing them to a bitchfest in offtopic... well, one assumes your intent was to get banned, so you can go elsewhere and gripe about it. I'll be happy to accommodate you.

        You're welcome.


        Paul
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        Help me give my children a better future gofund.me/xge53k8

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  • Profile picture of the author healthconverter
    I usually attribute it to a call to arms in an epic battle of wits. Keep it positive, and if nothing else works, try this line:

    Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.
    Or a real stinger:

    I'm rubber and you're glue...
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    HealthConverter.com - The Premiere Health And Beauty Affiliate Network - Visit Us At Our Blog
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