Ground Zero Mosque Moves Forward After Landmark Vote...

by TLTheLiberator 32 replies
( Paul, please delete if too political as I'm not sure on this one )


Interesting story...


It seems like plans to build a mosque near Ground Zero are moving forward.


The locals are just about evenly divided on both sides of this hot issue with many outsiders weighing in also.


Current Mayor Bloomberg is all for it and former Mayor Gulialnlee is dead set against it.


I have not formed a opinion on it one way or the other.

On one hand, it would be a testament to our tolerance and the building will supply a needed community service as a community center etc.

But on the other hand...



TL
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Yeh - on the other hand.
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    The OP will probably pass the mods, however the responses will guarantee deletion methinks.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Michael Bloomberg delivers stirring defense of mosque...

    If you're interested, here's the link...


    Michael Bloomberg delivers stirring defense of mosque - War Room - Salon.com
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    I think I'm actually close to you on this one TL. I do think that it would be a good testament to our civility.

    However - There's just something that bugs me about the push to make this thing happen. If I were a member of this religion, and wanted to prove my civility, then I wouldn't touch anything that had to do w/ 9-11 w/ a ten foot pole. I'm surprised that they're even pushing such an agenda.

    I don't know. I guess I kind of view it like the burning of the flag by a protester. You're proud to live in a Country where such things are tolerated. However, it still pisses you off.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      I think I'm actually close to you on this one TL. I do think that it would be a good testament to our civility.

      However - There's just something that bugs me about the push to make this thing happen. If I were a member of this religion, and wanted to prove my civility, then I wouldn't touch anything that had to do w/ 9-11 w/ a ten foot pole. I'm surprised that they're even pushing such an agenda.

      I don't know. I guess I kind of view it like the burning of the flag by a protester. You're proud to live in a Country where such things are tolerated. However, it still pisses you off.

      G,

      I haven't decided on it one way or the other and my comment about our tolerance etc., was just echoing others' sentiments.

      I would say it's a local decision but this one has national all over it also.

      TL
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        If it where extremist trying to build it, I would have a real problem with it.
        As it is I think I'll side with Bloomberg on this.
        After all it wasn't Muslims who caused 9/11 it was radical extremists.
        To blame or associate all Muslims for the acts of a few is like blaming all Christians or Spaniards for the Spanish Inquisition.
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        • Profile picture of the author garyv
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          If it where extremist trying to build it, I would have a real problem with it.
          As it is I think I'll side with Bloomberg on this.
          After all it wasn't Muslims who caused 9/11 it was radical extremists.
          To blame or associate all Muslims for the acts of a few is like blaming all Christians or Spaniards for the Spanish Inquisition.
          I agree. There are extremists in most organizations/religions. We shouldn't blame the majority for the actions of a few.

          I guess if capitalism were a religion, then a casino would be it's church. We've managed to put our churches all over the sacred grounds of those we've killed.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    I remember when 9-11 happened and the Sikhs of America had a full blown ad campaign to make sure they were not to be confused with Muslims.
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    • Profile picture of the author garyv
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      I remember when 9-11 happened and the Sikhs of America had a full blown ad campaign to make sure they were not to be confused with Muslims.
      It's sad that the actions of a handful of people can taint the reputation of so many.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    I watched Michaels speech. It WASN'T stirring!

    Let's think LOGICALLY here:

    On the muslim side....

    PROS...

    OK, I'm waiting, I can't think of ANY!

    CONS...

    BAD FAITH
    LIKELY TO BE CONTRAVERSIAL
    LIKELY TO COST A LOT IN MONEY/TIME
    COULD BE A SECURITY RISK
    IRONICALLY...MIGHT GET BOMBED!(HEY, they do it with abortion clinics, and government buildings, this is a GREAT target!)
    VISITORS WILL BE SELF CONSCIOUS, and may be hesitant, etc....

    on the NON muslim side?

    PROS....

    OK, I can't think of ANY!

    CONS....

    BRINGS UP BAD MEMORIES
    THE ENEMY WILL VIEW IT AS A VICTORY
    THEY COULD HAVE SECURITY PROBLEMS
    THEY MAY BE HURT BY A BOMB
    IT LOCKS OUT A BETTER CANDIDATE

    As for the garbage of "testament to our tolerance and the building will supply a needed community service as a community center etc..."

    The US HAS tolerance! There are mosques and temples ALL OVER! HECK, I havee seen muslim temples in US Airports! The US is one of the largest muslim communities in the world! This isn't about the mosque, it is about the LOCATION. As for the community center? YEAH, for MUSLIMS! If they want to REALLY build a muslim center, why haven't they started ELSEWHERE! It would have been EASY. You really have to wonder. WHY do they want THIS spot!?!?!?

    HECK, one coworker at my last contract was muslim. He was nice, and I was nice to him. He seemed like he might be arab, and DOES have a clearly arab name, and he told me at one point he is muslim. You know, I bet HE would agree with me here.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      I watched Michaels speech. It WASN'T stirring!

      Let's think LOGICALLY here:

      On the muslim side....

      PROS...

      OK, I'm waiting, I can't think of ANY!

      CONS...

      BAD FAITH
      LIKELY TO BE CONTRAVERSIAL
      LIKELY TO COST A LOT IN MONEY/TIME
      COULD BE A SECURITY RISK
      IRONICALLY...MIGHT GET BOMBED!(HEY, they do it with abortion clinics, and government buildings, this is a GREAT target!)
      VISITORS WILL BE SELF CONSCIOUS, and may be hesitant, etc....

      on the NON muslim side?

      PROS....

      OK, I can't think of ANY!

      CONS....

      BRINGS UP BAD MEMORIES
      THE ENEMY WILL VIEW IT AS A VICTORY
      THEY COULD HAVE SECURITY PROBLEMS
      THEY MAY BE HURT BY A BOMB
      IT LOCKS OUT A BETTER CANDIDATE

      As for the garbage of "testament to our tolerance and the building will supply a needed community service as a community center etc..."

      The US HAS tolerance! There are mosques and temples ALL OVER! HECK, I havee seen muslim temples in US Airports! The US is one of the largest muslim communities in the world! This isn't about the mosque, it is about the LOCATION. As for the community center? YEAH, for MUSLIMS! If they want to REALLY build a muslim center, why haven't they started ELSEWHERE! It would have been EASY. You really have to wonder. WHY do they want THIS spot!?!?!?

      HECK, one coworker at my last contract was muslim. He was nice, and I was nice to him. He seemed like he might be arab, and DOES have a clearly arab name, and he told me at one point he is muslim. You know, I bet HE would agree with me here.

      Steve
      That's not tolerance Steve, that's freedom of religion.
      In other words we are free to practice the religion of our choice or not.
      The thing is if any other religion wanted to build a church there, there wouldn't be any uproar at all.
      Again 9/11 wasn't a Muslim attack, it was an extremist attack.
      Remember the KKK?
      The second started as a Protestant group.
      They where opposed to Blacks, Catholics, and Jews.
      So should any of those groups hate Protestants, or just the KKK extremists?
      In 1915, the second Klan was founded. It grew rapidly nationwide after 1921 in response to a period of postwar social tensions, where industrialization in the North had attracted numerous waves of immigrants from southern and eastern Europe and the Great Migration of Southern blacks and whites. The second KKK preached racism, anti-Catholicism, anti-Communism, nativism, and antisemitism. Some local groups took part in attacks on private houses, and carried out other violent activities. The violent episodes were generally in the South
      So does that mean all whites hate blacks, Jews, and Catholics?
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      I agree with Kim and personally wouldn't want a church of any faith built in that location as I believe whatever the beliefs, people would be angry or offended.

      Just my opinion.

      Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      I think this is a political thread and will soon be deleted, but for me,its a disgrace that anyone would even consider building such a place at that location.
      Kim,

      The building is an old building several blocks away from ground zero and only is involved in this skirmish due to being hit by a few airplane parts as scores of other buildings in the vicinity did. Not much to write home about in the grand scheme of things.

      One thing to keep in mind is that politicians and reporters both have to show up for work everyday and say something. The less boring the output the better, appearently. If it stirs the pot and makes headlines they get to go home that night as winners.

      We the people...not so much.

      ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      That's the problem - the story has been used a "club" by pols who need attention.

      The people want to enlarge the mosque they have - on land they've owned for many years. I feel sorry for people who only want a place to worship that they must deal with this vitriol when they have done nothing wrong.

      We were not attacked by a religion - we were attacked by people using their religion to excuse their actions.

      It's interesting that groups and people who are so outspoken consistently about discrimination and racism - don't see this as something that concerns them.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    I just saw the head of the lower Manhattan community involved, say the community is way behind the project.
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  • Profile picture of the author gareth
    On the other hand it would mean they blew up twin towers and stuck up a mosque.

    there... said it.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      I think you missed the point Thom and Kay were making. "They" are not the same people. If Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda were building a Mosque then you would be correct. Otherwise you and others are wrong.

      Originally Posted by gareth View Post

      On the other hand it would mean they blew up twin towers and stuck up a mosque.

      there... said it.
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      • Profile picture of the author KimW
        I have deleted every one of the posts I have made in this thread.
        This is a subject that in my opinion is definitely off limits here.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Steve your whole argument is senseless.
          They don't want to build a Mosque on ground zero.
          Like Bill said it's a couple of blocks away.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            Steve your whole argument is senseless.
            They don't want to build a Mosque on ground zero.
            Like Bill said it's a couple of blocks away.
            It's like five BLOCKS away from the majority of the impact. It is EXACTLY where SOME of the impact happened! Parts of a plane ended up on its ROOF! IRONICALLY, that might have been what started the whole thing.

            So what do YOU consider ground zero? The square MILLIMETER that was at the center of impact? BTW if someone doesn't know, a millimeter is about 1/25.4"! OH WAIT, that is so much dust and rubble and maybe far away from there.

            Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author gareth
          Originally Posted by KimW View Post

          I have deleted every one of the posts I have made in this thread.
          This is a subject that in my opinion is definitely off limits here.
          True - this thread is a dead end
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  • Profile picture of the author djbventures
    really?! :-\
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I had to just delete my post here, too, Kim - it could have been volatile in the extreme.

    I just hope they reconsider the building - especially the name - google the origin of the original Cordova building and the naming of it...........then decide what you think.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I had to just delete my post here, too, Kim - it could have been volatile in the extreme.

      I just hope they reconsider the building - especially the name - google the origin of the original Cordova building and the naming of it...........then decide what you think.
      In current days when religious fundamentalism makes people sceptical about the purpose of religion, it is encouraging to look back at times in history where various faiths came together and lived in peace. Cordova, the seat of the great caliphate (929-1031 CE)[1], was one of these cases becoming the embodiment of a tolerant Islam embracing Muslims, Christians and Jews alike. During its golden age sciences, humanities, arts, commerce and industry flourished due to the collective contribution of these three congregations. The inspiration for such development was certainly drawn from those verses of the Qur’án emphasising acceptance and tolerance.
      Yep that sounds dangerous.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      - google the origin of the original Cordova building and the naming of it...
      Sal, was it the factory where they made that Rich Corinthian Leather I've heard so much about?

      ~Bill


      (Just trying to keep it light, folks... )
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        [quote=Bill Farnham;2426850]
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        - google the origin of the original Cordova building and the naming of it...QUOTE]

        Sal, was it the factory where they made that Rich Corinthian Leather I've heard so much about?

        ~Bill


        (Just trying to keep it light, folks... )
        I remember the Cordoba car commercials with Ricardo Maltabaum and him talking about the
        Rich Corinthian Leather of the car's interior.

        He was also the dude who provoked Captain Kirk to exclaim....























































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  • Profile picture of the author ZaneAbden
    I blame it on a media , the way they say it cause impact on people mind ... Muslims been living here for centuries.. if Islam is really a terrorist religious then you wont be living in a free country today !!! dont let the media words effect you
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by ZaneAbden View Post

      I blame it on a media , the way they say it cause impact on people mind ... Muslims been living here for centuries.. if Islam is really a terrorist religious then you wont be living in a free country today !!! dont let the media words effect you

      You said...

      if Islam is really a terrorist religious then you wont be living in a free country today !!

      I say...

      What on Earth are you talking about?????????????????????????????


      TL
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        You said...

        if Islam is really a terrorist religious then you wont be living in a free country today !!

        I say...

        What on Earth are you talking about?????????????????????????????


        TL
        I don't think anyone ever did call it a terrorist religion. But I think he meant simply that IF it were a terrorist organization, that there would be a lot of terrorists here, and we could be under sh'ria law. WELL, the US was NOT always so PC. If they were a terrorist religion, we would probably insist that they not do that, or be treated like anyone else would have been. That DID happen with satanism and VOODOO. HECK, some crazy christian cults have been prosecuted for putting people in danger, etc...

        The first amendment did NOT mean it could be used as an excuse for a nefarious purpose. There ARE limits.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Sharia law will never happen here - end of story.

    I still don't get what he was talking about.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Sharia law will never happen here - end of story.

      I still don't get what he was talking about.
      The US has a LOT of muslims. As I recall, the statement is that the US is the country with the 4th largest muslim population in the world. That is HUGE!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        The US has a LOT of muslims. As I recall, the statement is that the US is the country with the 4th largest muslim population in the world. That is HUGE!

        Steve

        And...

        Sharia law will never become the law of this land- not even the law of a city or county.
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