U.S. Heatwave: What's The Deal???

14 years ago

I love that song.

I don't know what the deal is, but I'm ready for fall. It has
been a hot mutha here in Delaware. Hi temps and humidity,
sucks.

Ken

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TLTheLiberator 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KenThompson

I love that song.

I don't know what the deal is, but I'm ready for fall. It has
been a hot mutha here in Delaware. Hi temps and humidity,
sucks.

Ken

I'm on the east coast also and it has been a mutha.

TL
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Chris1203 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KenThompson

I love that song.

I don't know what the deal is, but I'm ready for fall. It has
been a hot mutha here in Delaware. Hi temps and humidity,
sucks.

Ken

I'm with you, Ken...only I live in OHIO and it has been a very hot summer. I'm more than ready for Fall.
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ThomM

14 years ago

This post reminds me of the news yesterday when they where talking about that big chuck of ice that broke off the glacier in Iceland.
The news said it was the biggest chuck to fall off in 50 years.
All the "experts" where saying it proves climate change :rolleyes:
I was asking a different question, like that means a chunk as big or bigger broke off 51 years ago?
When something happens weather wise that never happened before, then I'll be concerned.

We need to stop polluting the earth, that's a given.
Until then we deserve what we get.

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HeySal

14 years ago

TL - it's not hot EVERYWHERE. In Central California it is degrees colder than usual. I actually have to put a sweater and socks on at night. People confuse weather with climate. It can be dead hot in one place and too cool in another. What we hear about is "hot spots" of weather, not overall global. Just like last winter - how many record colds were hit? Just asking, I don't remember. I do know a couple years back winter in the US and Canada was the coldest it's been in about 35 years and a few places hit 100 year record cold.

What is going on is the sun is acting very strangely. There is a program now on the net that you can watch for anomolies because scientists are trying to figure out what's going on. As you might well guess, the sun is responsible for much of our over-all climate and weather conditions are subject to that.
I'm surprised to see Russia in Drought. Last year all but a few places on the globe came OUT of drought and there were record crop yields from the wet, mild weather. The Philippines is just coming out of major flooding and some of that went on in China, too. US SE has had some flooding recently, too. This spring was the Wettest CA has seen in ???? decades and it's still cool. (BTW - wet is result of cooling......)

Right now I don't have the time to go in and really dig to find out what the real sciences say is going on (as apposed to media and their sensationalizing and fear mongering). When I do I'll say something more about what it looks like globally instead of just in localized areas........which we are seeing news about.

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Kurt

14 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

TL - it's not hot EVERYWHERE. In Central California it is degrees colder than usual. I actually have to put a sweater and socks on at night. People confuse weather with climate. It can be dead hot in one place and too cool in another. What we hear about is "hot spots" of weather, not overall global. Just like last winter - how many record colds were hit? Just asking, I don't remember. I do know a couple years back winter in the US and Canada was the coldest it's been in about 35 years and a few places hit 100 year record cold.

What is going on is the sun is acting very strangely. There is a program now on the net that you can watch for anomolies because scientists are trying to figure out what's going on. As you might well guess, the sun is responsible for much of our over-all climate and weather conditions are subject to that.
I'm surprised to see Russia in Drought. Last year all but a few places on the globe came OUT of drought and there were record crop yields from the wet, mild weather. The Philippines is just coming out of major flooding and some of that went on in China, too. US SE has had some flooding recently, too. This spring was the Wettest CA has seen in ???? decades and it's still cool. (BTW - wet is result of cooling......)

Right now I don't have the time to go in and really dig to find out what the real sciences say is going on (as apposed to media and their sensationalizing and fear mongering). When I do I'll say something more about what it looks like globally instead of just in localized areas........which we are seeing news about.

Actually the real scientists wouldn't consider just the US and Canada being cold to be proof of GLOBAL warming. We need temps from all over the planet for that.

When I was last in Las Vegas, they had the warmest fall in history. Pine beatles, caused by it not getting cold enough in the winter to kill them, are now in my next door neighboor's yard and we had to get the spray guy to coms spray all the trees in our yard. And the bark beatle infestation stretches from Colorado to Alaska.

Globally, this past spring was the warmest on record around the globe...But that was only land temps. The water temp was "only" the second highest ever recorded. And it looks like those temps have hung around a little longer.

Sal, it's been a while since you've been in places like Grand Lake, CO. I suggest you go look at all the pine trees there now. Or should I say all the DEAD pine trees?

This is what it looks like now, but much worse now:

Those brown trees and dead spruce. And millions and millions of acres of trees are dead. And it's all because it hasn't been getting cold enough to kill them in the winter, which is the "usual" process that kills most bark beetles.

Then there's the Hindu Kush problem. All the glaciers in the World's highest mountains are melting. As the temp rises, rain will become less often, but be more intense. It won't "freeze" as snow, which acts like a reservoir that farmers use throughout the year to water their crops. And when it does rain, it will be massive flooding.

Our military is already making contingency plans for the political unstability caused by the 1-2 BILLION people that will be displaced in the region due to lack of food.

The "good" news is, this is expected to happen in about 15 years, so we won't have to wait very long to see if it's actually true. But then of course it will be too late, but who cares?

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FJRoy_o

14 years ago

Some objective - non-partisan weather sites -
Watts Up With That?
e-WALL : PSU ELECTRONIC MAP WALL
Ice Age Now

As for "global" anything - we are in solar cycle 24 - it's well overdue - more solar activity - and NASA just found something out that STUNNED the scientific community - the Earth is in the outer atmosphere of our Sun - we're 93 MILLION miles away, and we're still in the sun's atmosphere - and SEVERAL times a day, the Earth and the Sun's magnetic field connect and transfer energy - and after that factoid WOW effect - scientists have no idea of the implications, other than the Sun/Earth connection has a direct correlation with weather. If you haven't seen these sites - take a look -

SDO | Solar Dynamics Observatory

Kepler: Home Page

Happy to bake your noodle - every chance I get ; )
Enjoy -
John

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sloanjim

14 years ago

GW...deniers will deny no matter what happens 30C NY Xmas one year deniers will say it's a natural cycle LOL what can you do?

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FJRoy_o 14 years ago

@SloanJim - Global change is happening. No denying here. The geologic record clearly shows that mass extinction events have happened 17 times in our 4.6 Billion years. 17 times, without SUV's, and "carbon emissions" from humans. The question remains, which smart humans are increasing their: political gain, capital gains, taxation increases from driving this fear. Marketing.
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HeySal 14 years ago

Originally Posted by sloanjim

GW...deniers will deny no matter what happens 30C NY Xmas one year deniers will say it's a natural cycle LOL what can you do?

You can start listening to scientists instead of your local politically charged news media. You're gonna be very surpised how fast Warming disappears once they have taxed C202. And if it IS warming and they decrease it --- we are going to destroy plant life. That is what PROTECTS plants when it's warm and high levels ALWAYS follow a warming trend. So lets cut the C202 when it's warm and see how many people we can starve to death with low crop yields. Kewl.
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MikeAmbrosio

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sloanjim

GW...deniers will deny no matter what happens 30C NY Xmas one year deniers will say it's a natural cycle LOL what can you do?

When we hit 30c on Xmas in NY, we'll have bigger problems than saying "I told you so, Non-Believers!"

Until then, I am - and will remain - open to theories, studies, etc. I don't necessarily DENY anything, but forgive me if I don't drink the "Oh My the sky is falling" kool-aid.

Hmmm - time to go get some sun!

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Kay King

14 years ago

The sky is falling (not).
The sky is fine (not).

Arguing the two scenarios is a waste of time as you can always find an "expert" to make statements that support your belief. The answer is somewhere in the middle - and there is no downside to pursuring a cleaner environment.

The most ridiculous stance to me is to claim "we aren't doing anything that affects the environment" - and yet there are many still adopting that argument.

If that were true - why do we need emissions standards?

kay

Edit: I think part of the problem is our tendency to think that slapping a tax or a fine on something fixes it. We can't tax our way out of this. Money is not an issue if you can't breathe.

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MikeAmbrosio

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

The sky is falling (not).
The sky is fine (not).

Arguing the two scenarios is a waste of time as you can always find an "expert" to make statements that support your belief. The answer is somewhere in the middle - and there is no downside to pursuring a cleaner environment.

The most ridiculous stance to me is to claim "we aren't doing anything that affects the environment" - and yet there are many still adopting that argument.

If that were true - why do we need emissions standards?

kay

Edit: I think part of the problem is our tendency to think that slapping a tax or a fine on something fixes it. We can't tax our way out of this. Money is not an issue if you can't breathe.

Essentially, that's what I meant and have said before. I'm just not patient enough anymore to type out the entire thing

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HeySal

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

The sky is falling (not).
The sky is fine (not).

Arguing the two scenarios is a waste of time as you can always find an "expert" to make statements that support your belief. The answer is somewhere in the middle - and there is no downside to pursuring a cleaner environment.

The most ridiculous stance to me is to claim "we aren't doing anything that affects the environment" - and yet there are many still adopting that argument.

If that were true - why do we need emissions standards?

kay

Edit: I think part of the problem is our tendency to think that slapping a tax or a fine on something fixes it. We can't tax our way out of this. Money is not an issue if you can't breathe.

I don't think that there is anyone that will deny that humans are completely annihilating our environment.

Try telling people hooked to cell phones what that microwave grid is doing - think they will stop using cell phones and picket for getting rid of that grid. Sure that's gonna happen.

Cars are lethal - but it's not C202, which is NOT a pollutant that we should be worried about - how bout worrying about what is a pollutant coming from the cars - like carbon monoxide. Yep, love clouds of that stuff wafting through your air while you're stuck in traffic.

And plastic....which can warm things, too with the lethal emissions it puts out.

Frankly - people will talk about any irrelevant crap in the world to save the planet as long as THEY don't have to do anything or give up any of their toxic little conveniences. It's a much more pleasing idea that they can throw the Gov a few bills and everything will be solved without having to put the damned cell phone to rest.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

The sky is falling (not).
The sky is fine (not).

Arguing the two scenarios is a waste of time as you can always find an "expert" to make statements that support your belief. The answer is somewhere in the middle - and there is no downside to pursuring a cleaner environment.

The most ridiculous stance to me is to claim "we aren't doing anything that affects the environment" - and yet there are many still adopting that argument.

If that were true - why do we need emissions standards?

kay

Edit: I think part of the problem is our tendency to think that slapping a tax or a fine on something fixes it. We can't tax our way out of this. Money is not an issue if you can't breathe.

You know, I never really liked gasoline AT ALL. And YEAH, I would LOVE to get rid of it. As for Co2, plants need it and I have always been against the wholesale killing of plants also. But MANY things account for the changes in climate. When I was a little kid they were talking about the next ice age. And yeah, there were stories about various things bringing the sun effectively closer to the earth.

But you know, an all encompassing tax is certainly NOT the answer. I was in california when they were hit with the enron garbage. A carbon tax could be FAR WORSE!

As for records? They have constantly, but NOT consistantly, been broken on both sides for DECADES!

Steve

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myob

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

... As for records? They have constantly, but NOT consistantly, been broken on both sides for DECADES!

Steve

Have you noticed that AGW explains these wide weather fluctuations? Data is indicating the global average temperature including the oceans have been rising for decades.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

Have you noticed that AGW explains these wide weather fluctuations? Data is indicating the global average temperature including the oceans have been rising for decades.

In a way, I was arguing FOR global warming, and even caused by people, but NOT solely because of per capita pollution. Still, there ARE a lot of holes in the Global warming "proof".

Steve

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myob 14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

... Still, there ARE a lot of holes in the Global warming "proof".

Steve

There are a whole lot more holes in just about every other "theory" discussed here. But the properties of CO2 are very well understood; it's greenhouse and radiative forcing properties have been known for over a hundred years.

Normal range of CO2 in the atmosphere is needed to regulate temperature because of it's greenhouse properties, but we are now into CO2 concentrations higher than at any time in recorded human history.

The data does show that the oceans are on slow boil and the average global temperature is rising in direct proportion to increasing CO2 levels in the atmosphere. Coincidence? The AGW theory seems to explain fairly well.

Meteorologists See Future of Increasingly Extreme Weather Events

The recent break off of a huge sheet of ice, 100 square miles in size, from Greenland is not the first in recent years, but it is one of the largest. Artic temperatures have increased by more than 4.5 degrees since 1970 which is much faster than the global average.
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- Paul Myers 14 years ago
  
  Tim, Mike Steve, et al...
  
  Partisan politics? Really?
  
  Please don't. Not in any form. Argue the science if you like, folks, but leave the politics out. Yes, I know. That's a sad requirement, but we all know where things go if it's not enforced.
  
  And Steve... don't even reply to this. After a while, I find the hinting and justification and ICSSMM comments annoying.
  
  Paul
  
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talfighel

14 years ago

In live in Toronto and this year it is HOT but it is no different then last year.

Some places on earth (Russia) are experiencing hotter then usual weather but I don't think it has anything to do with GLOBAL WARMING because that theory is all political.

Tal

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Kay King 14 years ago

Recently a scientist from NASA pointed out the Atlantic and Gulf are warmer this year than ever. He said "pseudo-scientific" theories have become popular with the public, politicians and even in the scientific community where something is to be gained.

He said you can't go year after year blaming El Nino and La Nina (sp?). Yes, the sun is responsible for some of the changes we've seen but he said it doesn't explain all of what are seeing.

He made the point I've made for years. Turning the potential of changing climate into a political football for pseudo-intellectuals and polarized scientific experts to argue - is just stupid. The arguments are not "is it happening" but "who is to blame". He believes our leaders and some in our scientific community are interested in debate and postulating rather than in taking a realistic look at conditions.

He made the point I've made before - it doesn't matter if we contribute 50% or 100% to the climate change that is happening. We need to clean up what we are doing and do our best to correct the balance. There is no downside to reducing greenhouse gases - but there's a potentially huge loss if we continue to just talk and argue about who is "right" instead of doing what we can to stop the damage.

kay
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Patrician

14 years ago

Well here we are having unusually cold - it really feels like Autumn.

Our real hot tacky Summer is typically August and September, but we do usually have nice days (sunny and warm) and hot off and on for a few days in a row from Spring through August.

Not this year. Maybe just 1 or 2 hot days total so far. Although it is not freezing cold, (Winter) it is consistently gray and windy almost every day including today...

I am happy and love to hear the wind whistling.

Sooooooo - What will happen tomorrow I don't know but apparently we are not on the so-called 'global warming' grid.

While it is true 'the coldest Winter I ever spent was a Summer in San Francisco' - (always gray and windy near the water), I am 30 miles East and it can get very hot around here. Seems like the old girl (SF) has farmed out. Yes!

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HeySal

14 years ago

Then there's the Hindu Kush problem. All the glaciers in the World's highest mountains are melting. As the temp rises, rain will become less often, but be more intense. It won't "freeze" as snow, which acts like a reservoir that farmers use throughout the year to water their crops. And when it does rain, it will be massive flooding.

The Himalayas are not melting -- India walked out of global talks and almost quit the UN because of falsified data about those glaciers. See - the guys actually up there studying them say there's nothing wrong there.

Okay -we're in summer now and it's hot in some places. .....but let's engage the memory and think about some of the headlines from last winter:

Anyone remember last winter?

The winter of 2009–2010 in Europe was unusually cold. ... and saw many parts of Europe experiencing heavy snowfall and record low temperatures

Feb 10, 2010 ... It's history: Winter 2009-2010 snowiest on record. Records set at National, Dulles, and BWI Airports. *** Latest update: Winds, blowing snow ..

The record-breaking cold temperatures during the winter of 2009/2010 in the Northern Hemisphere. Chunzai Wang,1* Hailong Liu1,2 and Sang-Ki Lee1,2

Apr 9, 2010 ... For Houston, Texas, the winter of 2009 - 2010 was one of the coldest in the area since record keeping began. The cold Arctic air reached as ..

Feb 16, 2010 ... RECORD LONG COLD SNAP ... With any more winters like 2009-2010, you may need to expand your meteorological staff! More News Articles

Now that I have you thinking about the severe global chill we had last winter -
Here's a link to the global crop situation in July. You will see there that while part of Russia is having problems, the other part is just fine. There are many places on the globe that are experiencing weather much different than other areas. As you mentioned Kurt -- LOCALIZED issues, and what you hear on the news is localized issues made out to be globe wide.

http://www.usda.gov/oce/weather/pubs...ly/current.pdf

As far as heat in the Eastern US - is it really HOTTER or is it just wetter? From my understanding there has been a few really zinger blazing days in a few areas but most of the unbearable heat back there is heat mixed with high humidity. You take a 90 degree day here in the West and it's quite palatable - there is little humidity. You take 90 degrees in Michigan and you are suffering. It feels like you're in a sauna. Here where we should be having temperatures that are hot even with dry air - we aren't getting that heat this year.

Here's a very good article to read about the political side of the Global climate issue:

ICECAP

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KenThompson 14 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

As far as heat in the Eastern US - is it really HOTTER or is it just wetter?

Naw, we just like to bitch, Sal.

Selective memory, perhaps, because here a lot of people are
saying, "Last summer wasn't as hot as this one." And that's
true, but last summer was to die for - not as hot as it usually
is.

About a month ago we had a stretch of maybe close to two
weeks with high 90's and high humidity. Heat index around 110.
Excruciating swamp ass days. A couple of days it hit 100, I want
to say, and the heat index was unforgiving.

I'm about less than 5 miles from the Delaware River, as the crow
hobbles. There's always a lot of humidity.

But all in all, I'd rather be here than Omaha Nebraska.

Ken
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sloanjim

14 years ago

no need to listen to the Scicence of CO2 causing warming HeySal as all the answers..always does.

LOL......and the source of your arguement is where? (Mcbloggers?)

Some places on earth (Russia) are experiencing hotter then usual weather but I don't think it has anything to do with GLOBAL WARMING because that theory is all political.

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HeySal

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sloanjim

no need to listen to the Scicence of CO2 causing warming HeySal as all the answers..always does.

LOL......and the source of your arguement is where? (Mcbloggers?)

Well, gee, Jim. I listed a few of them in one of my posts. Not being able to find the links in a post is'nt much of an argument for your expertise in an argument, either, ya know?

Actually - I have a whole section of my website set up for watching climate change, etc -- it's called Earthwatch and I've been studying this issue in depth for 5 years. You will find sources for the information both on that section and in my newsletters right in the articles.

When you enter a conversation and have nothing going for you but targeting someone with demeaning crap for not sharing your limited views, you shouldn't be the one pointing fingers about who has good info and who doesn't.

Go click the links in my post -- then maybe add some ACTUAL information of your own with a few of your own instead of just spitting on me. People here are smarter than that Jim.

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sloanjim

14 years ago

No...NO it wasn't. It was about what I used to experience in the 1970's it was cooler compared to the unbelievabley mild winters we got in the 80's and 90's so one "normal winter" does not mean "No G.W." it definitley was not "unusually cold at all. FACT please! Geez you people are unbelievable.

the winter of 2009–2010 in Europe was unusually cold.

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MikeAmbrosio

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sloanjim

No...NO it wasn't. It was about what I used to experience in the 1970's it was cooler compared to the unbelievabley mild winters we got in the 80's and 90's so one "normal winter" does not mean "No G.W." it definitley was not "unusually cold at all. FACT please! Geez you people are unbelievable.

So, do you suppose after we get to that peak warmth we're heading for, then we start cooling again (which has happened many times in the planets history) there will be people crying "Global Cooling - it's gonna kill us all! Non-believers!"?

If you put half that energy into looking for solutions instead of trying to convince people to believe everything you believe, then I believe you may just find the solution for everyone!

Now wouldn't THAT be cool? SO to speak...

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Some here talk about the politics behind GW. Well, here's a pretty good example of people playing pure politics with this issue. Cap and Trade was a Republican idea and was part of John McCain and Sarah Palin's platform when they ran in 2008. As soon as the current admin came in and congress came up with a energy policy bill that includes Cap and Trade, low and behold both McCain and Palin are now against it, with Palin calling it Cap and Tax. Same thing with the health insurance mandate. That was a Republican idea, but as soon as the other side uses it, it becomes a terrible idea. Hypocrisy anyone?

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Some here talk about the politics behind GW. Well, here's a pretty good example of people playing pure politics with this issue. Cap and Trade was a Republican idea and was part of John McCain and Sarah Palin's platform when they ran in 2008.

As soon as the current admin came in and congress came up with a energy policy bill that includes Cap and Trade, low and behold both McCain and Palin are now against it, with Palin calling it Cap and Tax.

Same thing with the health insurance mandate. That was a Republican idea, but as soon as the other side uses it, it becomes a terrible idea. Hypocrisy anyone?

Very interesting.

I heard that Bush1 used something very simular to cap & trade to deal with the problem of acid rain during his term in office.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Yes, remember acid rain? The cap and trade program in the 1990 clean air act amendments was a complete success. "In the 1990s, the U.S. acid rain cap and trade program achieved 100 percent compliance in reducing sulfur dioxide emissions. In fact, power plants took advantage of the allowance banking provision to reduce SO2 emissions 22 percent (7.3 million tons) below mandated levels for the first phase of the program."

The Cap and Trade Success Story - Global Warming - Environmental Defense Fund

The success of this program led The Economist magazine to crown it "probably the greatest green success story of the past decade." (July 6, 2002).

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Very interesting.

I heard that Bush1 used something very simular to cap & trade to deal with the problem of acid rain during his term in office.

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HeySal

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Yes, remember acid rain? The cap and trade program in the 1990 clean air act amendments was a complete success. "In the 1990s, the U.S. acid rain cap and trade program achieved 100 percent compliance in reducing sulfur dioxide emissions. In fact, power plants took advantage of the allowance banking provision to reduce SO2 emissions 22 percent (7.3 million tons) below mandated levels for the first phase of the program."

The Cap and Trade Success Story - Global Warming - Environmental Defense Fund

The success of this program led The Economist magazine to crown it "probably the greatest green success story of the past decade." (July 6, 2002).

Interesting, Tim. I remembered the issue being talked about a lot, but didn't know what ever happened to it.

Now that was all pollutant, too, though. C202 isn't a pollutant and, as I stated, plants need the heightened levels of it when it's warm. They'll die without it. If they are going to target something that puts out carbon monoxide, I can get behind that, but I think it's a serious mistake to target C202. Scientists have figured out high levels of that have ALWAYS followed warming.

Although I have had someone get very pissed at me in this thread already for cutting some excerpts from last winter's cold snap (those were from news articles, I didn't write them, but I did follow that cold snap for awhile and it was severe, and thankfully shorter than expected), I have to look back to the late 60's and 70's. We say climate is changing - but it looks to be very similar right now to that era. I remember laying on the floor in front of the open sliding glass door at night because it was too hot to go into the bedrooms. In winter, though, we had some hella cold. It seems that our seasons are becoming more distinct again.

Like the agriculture report that I linked to in the other post said - Part of Russia is very hot and in drought - but the other part is doing just fine and normal. Their heat is localized. There some off and on stuff going on all over the globe according to the agriculture reports -- but all I'm seeing on the news is the places that are hot.
They aren't reporting any of the normal, colder than usual, or severe wet areas. We've had several areas flooding over the last few months (agriculture report mentions a few - but Mexico, Philippines, parts of China, etc are a few).

I don't like it that our politicians are playing us for the money. I think a panel of global Scientists should be assembled - guys who get no favors pay, or increases in pay or kickbacks from politicians - no benefits that are to be won from taking a particular stance on climate issues --- and let THEM decide what needs to be done. Let the politicians just implement programs according to the scientists positions - instead of having scientists benefiting from supporting political agendas being broadcast.

Even NASA has admitted that one of the problems is that scientists are getting their data for their fields but there has been no real quantified research done on a cross field basis and that we need to start comparing data from ALL earth sciences to see what is going on. Climate is a very complex issue and to just nail it all down to one little non-pollutant element that comprises only 1% of the atmosphere (even at elevated rates) is just ludicrous. Example: What about those underwater volcanoes in the North warming the ocean up there - a tax gonna stop that one?
Example: what about the water and wind currents in the S. oceans right now that are causing patterns of wet - a tax gonna stop those?
Example: Solar scientists have PROVEN that our climate is dictated largely by activity of our sun. How are we going to change that one? Is a tax going to make the sun stop what it's doing?

The only thing they are targeting with this cap and trade is one non-polluting element that can cause severe damage if limited during heat. What's going to happen if they lower the levels of it and the result is killing crops? We have 7 billion people to feed for cripes sakes. Why aren't they targeting microwave and plastic which has been proven not just to heat - but one is an extreme pollutant. It just makes NO sense at all.

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Yes, remember acid rain? The cap and trade program in the 1990 clean air act amendments was a complete success. "In the 1990s, the U.S. acid rain cap and trade program achieved 100 percent compliance in reducing sulfur dioxide emissions. In fact, power plants took advantage of the allowance banking provision to reduce SO2 emissions 22 percent (7.3 million tons) below mandated levels for the first phase of the program."

The Cap and Trade Success Story - Global Warming - Environmental Defense Fund

The success of this program led The Economist magazine to crown it "probably the greatest green success story of the past decade." (July 6, 2002).

I remember that very well Tim.
After all the acid rain was killing the lakes in the Adirondacks where I spend a lot of time.
Back in the 80's the effects where plain to see.
Brackish lakes, dead trees all over, it was a real mess.
Today the lakes are thriving, and the forests look as good or better then they ever have.
Form this New Yorkers point of view that program was a complete success.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Thom, I think that is a great example where our political system did work. Plus, if I recall it was bipartisan. Would this have happened without Government being involved in science? Hell no. Government isn't all bad like some think and it really is We the People.

Originally Posted by ThomM

I remember that very well Tim.
After all the acid rain was killing the lakes in the Adirondacks where I spend a lot of time.
Back in the 80's the effects where plain to see.
Brackish lakes, dead trees all over, it was a real mess.
Today the lakes are thriving, and the forests look as good or better then they ever have.
Form this New Yorkers point of view that program was a complete success.

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Thom, I think that is a great example where our political system did work. Plus, if I recall it was bipartisan. Would this have happened without Government being involved in science? Hell no. Government isn't all bad like some think and it really is We the People.

Actually Tim at that time NY was ready to start bombing the factories in the mid-west

If the feds didn't step in we would of had another civil war.
We New Yorker's love our Adirondacks with a passion. After all it's largest state park in the nation and you can fit 5 of those little federal parks like Yosemite in it Adirondack Park - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I agree govt. isn't all bad, and it does serve a purpose.
But it also over steps it's bounds and has become self serving more so then serving the people.

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MikeAmbrosio

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Thom, I think that is a great example where our political system did work. Plus, if I recall it was bipartisan. Would this have happened without Government being involved in science? Hell no. Government isn't all bad like some think and it really is We the People.

LOL, yep there it is. NOW you go bipartisan...

But you are right. I don't think Gov. OR big business is all bad. I think we need both. They keep each other in check - kinda like having 2 political parties.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Yes, remember acid rain? The cap and trade program in the 1990 clean air act amendments was a complete success. "In the 1990s, the U.S. acid rain cap and trade program achieved 100 percent compliance in reducing sulfur dioxide emissions. In fact, power plants took advantage of the allowance banking provision to reduce SO2 emissions 22 percent (7.3 million tons) below mandated levels for the first phase of the program."

The Cap and Trade Success Story - Global Warming - Environmental Defense Fund

The success of this program led The Economist magazine to crown it "probably the greatest green success story of the past decade." (July 6, 2002).

That was ENTIRELY different! SULFUR is just a pollutant in most things, and NOT needed. CARBON is the driving product in energy and IS needed. Remove sulfur, and the engine is cleaner, etc... Remove carbon, and it probably won't run.

Steve

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MikeAmbrosio

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Some here talk about the politics behind GW. Well, here's a pretty good example of people playing pure politics with this issue. Cap and Trade was a Republican idea and was part of John McCain and Sarah Palin's platform when they ran in 2008. As soon as the current admin came in and congress came up with a energy policy bill that includes Cap and Trade, low and behold both McCain and Palin are now against it, with Palin calling it Cap and Tax. Same thing with the health insurance mandate. That was a Republican idea, but as soon as the other side uses it, it becomes a terrible idea. Hypocrisy anyone?

Come on Tim. You know full well that if the situation was reverse, the Democrats would have done the same thing.

You're pretty good at "demonizing" everything about Republicans - you did it the other day in another thread...

Everyone knows that political parties more often than not vote party lines, and flip flop on issues. Both sides do it. So please, be a little more realistic if you're going to go "pure politics" in a thread like this.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

I think you missed my point completely, but whatever. I actually gave credit to republicans for coming up with these ideas. How in the world is that demonizing them? LOL. Of course Dems flip flop also. That's a given. I thought this thread was about GW. Some people in this thread were already making it political saying GW is BS because of political reasons. I just wanted to show another side of that.

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Come on Tim. You know full well that if the situation was reverse, the Democrats would have done the same thing.

You're pretty good at "demonizing" everything about Republicans - you did it the other day in another thread...

Everyone knows that political parties more often than not vote party lines, and flip flop on issues. Both sides do it. So please, be a little more realistic if you're going to go "pure politics" in a thread like this.

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MikeAmbrosio

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I think you missed my point completely, but whatever. I actually gave credit to republicans for coming up with these ideas. How in the world is that demonizing them? LOL. Of course Dems flip flop also. That's a given. I thought this thread was about GW. Some people in this thread were already making it political saying GW is BS because of political reasons. I just wanted to show another side of that.

LOL - you're good at that too. You gave them credit, then immediately criticized their position change, but luckily those wonderful dems got the job done.

MY point was simply that you like to take opportunities to point out Republican short comings and failings. You don't point out Dem ones until someone calls you on your posts. It's become pretty predictable actually

For example, in the other thread about Who do you trust, you found a way to bring up GW's "It's Over.." thing from WAY back in 2003 (and of course all the deaths - cute), yet no one had said anything about the current Admin's declaration. It was more about what we're being told by Gov. AND Big Business, but for whatever reason you compare it to a situation that had nothing to do with the post at hand.

But like you said... whatever.

It's all good.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

It's become pretty predictable actually

A lot of people here are pretty predictable Mike. Including you. :-)

For example, in the other thread about Who do you trust, you found a way to bring up GW's "It's Over.." thing from WAY back in 2003 (and of course all the deaths - cute), yet no one had said anything about the current Admin's declaration. It was more about what we're being told by Gov. AND Big Business, but for whatever reason you compare it to a situation that had nothing to do with the post at hand.

Well, in that thread my response was very relevant to the thread. People mentioned that what the government was saying reminded them of "Mission Accomplished". Go back and read it again. This was just after the admin's pie chart presentation. Who the heck do you think they were talking about if not the admin? Come on Mike, you get real. I can't say I disagree with the comparison because you feel I am somehow different from others? That thread was already made political before I said anything.

You are right on one thing though, it is all good. :-)

Tim

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Some here talk about the politics behind GW. Well, here's a pretty good example of people playing pure politics with this issue. Cap and Trade was a Republican idea and was part of John McCain and Sarah Palin's platform when they ran in 2008. As soon as the current admin came in and congress came up with a energy policy bill that includes Cap and Trade, low and behold both McCain and Palin are now against it, with Palin calling it Cap and Tax. Same thing with the health insurance mandate. That was a Republican idea, but as soon as the other side uses it, it becomes a terrible idea. Hypocrisy anyone?

OK, I might be interested in checking THAT out. They said the same about the HCP and it was NOT true! It was butchered and supported only by DEMOCRATS who took full credit. A lot of things in there are things a republican would NEVER suggest or support!

Like education grants for healthcare workers who then MUST be paid according to their education, and only hiring UNION.

Steve

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HeySal

14 years ago

Which is one of my points, Mike - we need to get politicians out of science completely. Why the heck should we even think to be mentioning them in a thread that talks about science? The whole climate issue should be disallowed from politics where it is distorted, polarized, synthesized, and spun however they can to make money from it. That's what politicians DO and the party doesn't matter - they all DO that in one way or another. It's how they get support for their agendas, no matter what their agendas are. People who listen to politicized versions of climate, are not getting news - they are getting propaganda.

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myob 14 years ago

Global warming is unprecedented in recorded human history because average global temperatures have shown no significant statistical variation until the last hundred and twenty years, which correlates with a thirty-percent increase in carbon dioxide (CO2) gas generated by industrial and other anthropogenic activity. Your local mileage may vary, but worldwide global temperatures are rising with increasingly wild weather fluctuations and more intense atmospheric activity especially over the last few decades.

The "greenhouse effect" model, which demonstrates that CO2 exhibits a property involving characteristics of long-wave energy absorption and "radiative forcing" of water vapor which accelerates surface warming. The behavior of CO2 interaction with atmospheric water vapor is very well understood. As the CO2 level increases, average global temperatures will increase unless the CO2 levels are reduced.

Looking at 10 year increments, instead of short term weather and climate anomalies, the overall trend is upward. These weather anomalies are actually part of the green house effect model and fit as expected with CO2 levels. The decade of 2000-2010 is hotter than the decade of 1990-2000 which was hotter than the decade of 1980-1990 and so on which correlates with rising CO2 levels since around 1880.

Global Surface Temperature Change
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Lawrh

14 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Which is one of my points, Mike - we need to get politicians out of science completely. Why the heck should we even think to be mentioning them in a thread that talks about science? The whole climate issue should be disallowed from politics where it is distorted, polarized, synthesized, and spun however they can to make money from it. That's what politicians DO and the party doesn't matter - they all DO that in one way or another. It's how they get support for their agendas, no matter what their agendas are. People who listen to politicized versions of climate, are not getting news - they are getting propaganda.

Unfortunately science is very highly politicized itself. How do we determine what is valid? The hoopla about the Large Hadron Collider creating black holes and destroying the earth was all the doing of a botanist in Hawaii. This person, whose specialty is grafting flowers, decided high energy physics was dangerous and began a series of lawsuits.

NASA's politicization is legendary.

As of 2009, in all of North America, there are only 64 people with a PhD in climatology. The scientists promoting AGW are geneticists, geologists and every discipline except climatology.

Remove the politics from science first.

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Lawrh

14 years ago

A clear perspective on global changes.

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cosmoslad

14 years ago

When we get heat alers in Minnesota and the heat index (whatever that is when it's at home) is over 103, you know that it is all the fault of weather forecasters with too many new toys.
I blame it on Dopler Radar

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by cosmoslad

When we get heat alers in Minnesota and the heat index (whatever that is when it's at home) is over 103, you know that it is all the fault of weather forecasters with too many new toys.
I blame it on Dopler Radar

I like your thinking

Last night the dopler showed clear skys with no sign of rain.
Apparently the skies where sweating cause I got soaked riding to horseshoes.

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Kay King

14 years ago

I like the graph above - but that little dude that keeps asking questions in my head wonders just how exact the temperatures from 1100 B.C. might be.

How do you measure what the heat index was way back when? It's not like it leaves a mark or anyone was keeping records of any kind. I understand you may be able to date volcanic activity but how do you know when the solar radiation peaked thousands of years ago?

Those guys have some interesting text on their site - but are smart to qualify their prediction with "or maybe not" (which is necessary for predicting).

We, Cliff Harris and Randy Mann, believe that the warming and even the cooling of global temperatures are the result of long-term climatic cycles, solar activity, sea-surface temperature patterns and more. However, Mankind's activities of the burning of fossil fuels, massive deforestations, the replacing of grassy surfaces with asphalt and concrete, the 'Urban Heat Island Effect,' are making conditions 'worse' and this will ultimately enhance the Earth's warming process down the meteorological roadway in the next several decades.

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HeySal

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I like the graph above - but that little dude that keeps asking questions in my head wonders just how exact the temperatures from 1100 B.C. might be.

How do you measure what the heat index was way back when? It's not like it leaves a mark or anyone was keeping records of any kind. I understand you may be able to date volcanic activity but how do you know when the solar radiation peaked thousands of years ago?

Those guys have some interesting text on their site - but are smart to qualify their prediction with "or maybe not" (which is necessary for predicting).

Hmmm.......one way we know it was really cold is that they have found frozen cavemen and mastadons. That's a really dead give away that it was cold when they died. LOL.

Antarctica is an Archipelago and there was no snow whatsoever on the shores around 12,000 years ago. So just having snow there makes that colder than that time period.

They can tell a lot of ways. One is fossils and other such things, they can tell the age - certain fossils mean water was there - some means plant life. If the place is covered in snow and has plant fossils, ya just know it was warmer at one time than now. There are also certain ways that rocks store environmental data - water, electro-magnetic records, etc. that gives away a lot. Erosional patterns of soil tell stories about what was going on.

A good point about warming is -- we don't need to be taxed crapless to get rid of excess C202. We are deforesting the planet at a frightening rate and if we were to replant (which just might save our butts in the first place) it would take care of the excess C202 and trees and forests are cooling - cement is not.

Also - get this..........on the cap and trade bill, there is a goal drawn of using LESS fossil fuel than we were using over a hundred years ago when there were only around 2-3 billion people on the whole earth. Now, either we need to wipe out a freaking lot of people really fast to meet that goal or they are going to have to come up with some astounding green answers and implement them like about yesterday.

Lawrence..........yeah there is some wicked suppression that goes on in Science. Just had a newsletter article about some of it in the Archaeology fields. Most of it centers around funding...but some of it is becuase some egotistical gonad can't handle someone proving his widely accepted and accredited theory passe or just plain wrong. That's why I was so blatant about funding could NOT be dependent on what they find - take the funding issue out and you'll still have egotistical sickos who just have a lust for fame, but you'd get much less of that kind of thing once the funding fluctuations were wiped out.

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John Henderson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I like the graph above - but that little dude that keeps asking questions in my head wonders just how exact the temperatures from 1100 B.C. might be.

Kay, you're absolutely right to question that graph. The "little dude" in my head has also been asking some questions...

Firstly, what kind of scientist publishes a graph with no scale on the 'y' (up-down) axis? If I'd submitted a graph to my 6th grade science teacher with a blank y-axis and nothing but vague indicators like "warm", "cold" or "very cold", it would have been thrown back at me together with some stern words.

Originally Posted by Kay King

How do you measure what the heat index was way back when? It's not like it leaves a mark or anyone was keeping records of any kind.

Ice core - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ice cores contain an abundance of climate information. Inclusions in the snow of each year remain in the ice, such as wind-blown dust, ash, bubbles of atmospheric gas and radioactive substances. The variety of climatic proxies is greater than in any other natural recorder of climate, such as tree rings or sediment layers. These include (proxies for) temperature, ocean volume, precipitation, chemistry and gas composition of the lower atmosphere, volcanic eruptions, solar variability, sea-surface productivity, desert extent and forest fires.

Originally Posted by Kay King

I understand you may be able to date volcanic activity but how do you know when the solar radiation peaked thousands of years ago?

There won't be any hard data. Perhaps scientists can infer solar activity from historical accounts of the weather or assume that solar patterns that we've observed recently haven't changed since the past, but there would be a lot of assumptions and inferences there.

Originally Posted by Kay King

Those guys have some interesting text on their site - but are smart to qualify their prediction with "or maybe not" (which is necessary for predicting).

Well again, a good scientist would quantify his/her errors with +/- percentages. "Or maybe not" really isn't good enough...

The biggest problem I have, is with these guys' conclusion: "Whenever solar radiation has decreased and volcanic activity has increased, global temperatures suddenly plummet, often within weeks or months."

They don't know when solar radiation has decreased
They can't possibly proclaim that temperatures have plummeted within weeks or months -- the data they have will not give them that kind of precision
In the "cold spell" between 1900BC and 1500BC, ten eruptions take place during this temperature downswing and 25 take place on the temperature upswing... but based on this data, these guys fearlessly conclude that volcanic activity drives the temperature down... :confused:

To my eyes, that graph has just one redeeming characteristic: look at how sweeping and gentle the curves are on the left of the industrial revolution (pre-1800AD). Before then, global climate changes were gradual.

Now look at what's happened since the industrial revolution: temperature swings that are so violent that natural ecosystems haven't a hope in hell of adapting to the changes. For examples of this, take a look at Kurt's dead pine trees or the massive proportion of coral reefs that have died in the past 2 or 3 decades.

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Doug

14 years ago

Remember when Pringles potato chips came out? They marketed them in a can so as to play up the fact their chips were not crushed. Now you can buy them in a bag...

global warming
acid rain
ice age cometh

butter bad
margarine good

no wait...

margarine bad
butter good

Look past the messenger, consider who wants the message out for consumption, and ask yourself why.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Doug

Remember when Pringles potato chips came out? They marketed them in a can so as to play up the fact their chips were not crushed. Now you can buy them in a bag...

global warming
acid rain
ice age cometh

butter bad
margarine good

no wait...

margarine bad
butter good

Look past the messenger, consider who wants the message out for consumption, and ask yourself why.

Well, pringles are VERY different. Maybe some developed a taste for them. I bet the ones in the bags ARE more likely to break!

Steve

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sloanjim

14 years ago

McBloggers....

I like the graph above - but that little dude that keeps asking questions in my head wonders just how exact the temperatures from 1100 B.C. might be.

How do you measure what the heat index was way back when? It's not like it leaves a mark or anyone was keeping records of any kind. I understand you may be able to date volcanic activity but how do you know when the solar radiation peaked thousands of years ago?

Those guys have some interesting text on their site - but are smart to qualify their prediction with "or maybe not" (which is necessary for predicting).

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seasoned

14 years ago

John,

You DID make some good points. BUT....

1. The ice core isn't that precise either, as you implied yourself, and is only at certain points.
2. Same really with tree rings
3. No real point of reference

As for the industrial revolution? When it started, it was FAR worse! FAR FAR FAR worse! So how come things are getting still worse even though in nearly every single case they are better!?!?!?(MAYBE some places like parts of china are worse, MAYBE!) YEP! X*100 will ALWAYS be less than (x/100)*1000000+!

MORE PEOPLE! MORE FOOD! MORE R/E TAKEN UP! FEWER PLANTS! Etc....

Steve

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John Henderson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

1. The ice core isn't that precise either, as you implied yourself, and is only at certain points.

Indeed. It's the best record that we've got, but it doesn't give the kind of precision that would allow you to determine that a temperature difference occurred in "weeks" or "months".

Originally Posted by seasoned

2. Same really with tree rings

True, because a number of factors could affect tree growth, not just global temperature.

Originally Posted by seasoned

3. No real point of reference

Ummm, you've lost me there dude....

Originally Posted by seasoned

As for the industrial revolution? When it started, it was FAR worse!

Was it???

Originally Posted by seasoned

FAR FAR FAR worse!

Oh no!

Originally Posted by seasoned

So how come things are getting still worse even though in nearly every single case they are better!?!?!?

Heaven knows Steve! (What are we talking about?)

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John Henderson

Indeed. It's the best record that we've got, but it doesn't give the kind of precision that would allow you to determine that a temperature difference occurred in "weeks" or "months".

We don't really have anything to even determine WHEN they happened.

Yeah, look at cars, and GAS, BOTH put out FAR more pollution. They probably put out more polution in a day than the average family now does in a week! Of course, with so many more families, and so fewer trees, it gets WORSE!

Steve

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HeySal 14 years ago

Steve - you're right about the beginning of the industrial revolution being an ecological catastrophe. Most companies have found solutions for most of the pollutants they produce now.......but....

We have mega amounts more factories than before. We are in talks about cap and trade, yet there are some factories still producing ungodly amounts of very dangerous pollution. Mt. Home, ID has one of the top 10 polluters and I can't figure out why nobody has slammed any fines against them or made them find an answer to what they are spewing into the air. People are freaking out over carbon when that factory is producing some large particle, very toxic crap. They are tainting millions of feet of air (can't remember the measurement they use for air, lol) and nobody is saying squat about them.

One of the problems with cap and trade is that alternative energy sources have been suppressed so long because our reps are making pocket cash from the oil companies that I could live on for a few years. They don't want to give up their bucks. Now that alternatives have become a necessity, we're not ready. Also - the amounts that we are supposed to cut back to don't make sense for this size of population. How do 7 billion people cut back use to a level that is pre-industrial revolution levels? Are they expecting half of the population to die off in the next few years or what?

Another thing that bothers me is after being outed for all the false data IPCC was tossing out there to support their agenda - people still believe most of it and now they are starting a new round of it. There are people that still think that the Himalaya glaciers are in trouble even after the scientists who actually climbed up there are collecting data close and personal ON those glaciers say there is nothing wrong there - India walked out of the talks and is considering dropping out of the UN because of the falsification of data about those glaciers. IPCC said "whoops" when caught and MSM did nothing to let people know about it. We are hearing all about Russia's heat problem - but it's localized. Half of Russia's weather is normal - normal enough to be producing decent crops. They had to cut exports because the heated area is cropland -- um- land cleared of its forestry.

During the winter of 2008 we had all that extreme cold in the North and the ice on the pole increased to more than we've seen in 15 years in spots. Other spots were fairly bare because of the wind patterns blowing it -- and that is the only spot that was used for climate reports. They still aren't saying much about the volcanoes on the sea bottom up there that are spewing hot molten lava and the associated gases at the time. Sure it's warm. Nothing we do is going to change that until those volcanoes die off.

Then we have the whole misrepresentation of the problem. They want to tax us more on oil. They are just making more money and not solving problems again. If we had our taxes raised to reforest areas - which would solve carbon problems whether real or imaginary - our planet would be cooled. Desertification causes HEAT. Has nobody ever gone from a city during a hot day out to the forests? Um.........din'tcha notice a difference in the temperature?

Reforestation will revive normal rain patterns, cut down on flooding and other disasters, eventually re-structure soils (takes awhile). It will allow for the necessary bio-diversity for a healthy planet - which as NASA has found out determines human population health.

Reforestation is the ONLY way we can return this planet to any form of health, climate, and weather patterning - and it's being ignored. Instead we are getting a $$ solution that will make more money for leaders and actually risks damage. That is why almost all of the climatologists not paid by this global taxation party are AGAINST it. You can't build a cement planet and expect it to cool down.
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Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path
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Lawrh

14 years ago

Boggles the mind how people take local conditions and extrapolate it to the whole world.

I'm in Edmonton, it's overcast and cool. It's been this way since April. We got a couple of days in the high 20's (C), but no bloody heatwave. Just a few hot days here and there.

The variance in local conditions is normal and everywhere. The media reporting, on the other hand...

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lawrh

Boggles the mind how people take local conditions and extrapolate it to the whole world.

I'm in Edmonton, it's overcast and cool. It's been this way since April. We got a couple of days in the high 20's (C), but no bloody heatwave. Just a few hot days here and there.

The variance in local conditions is normal and everywhere. The media reporting, on the other hand...

I hear that

The last two nights here have been brutal. I've had to leave the fans on all night. Now here's the kicker. This is the first time I left the fans on all night in more years then I can remember and this is the first time in years that I've thought the nights reminded me of when I was a kid.
So to me the temps here are finally what they where 50 years ago:rolleyes:

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Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
Getting old ain't for sissy's
As you are I was, as I am you will be
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Paul Myers 14 years ago

Note, for those who may be interested...

Mike Ambrosio was not banned for behavior. He requested a ban for 30 days. He is not the first one to make this request, and probably won't be the last. His reasons are his own, and I'll leave it to him to comment on them later if he wants. In the mean time, I'll say this: They're not a reflection on anyone at all.

Paul
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HeySal

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

I hear that

The last two nights here have been brutal. I've had to leave the fans on all night. Now here's the kicker. This is the first time I left the fans on all night in more years then I can remember and this is the first time in years that I've thought the nights reminded me of when I was a kid.
So to me the temps here are finally what they where 50 years ago:rolleyes:

Gee Thom - I would kill for a week of nights like that. I thought I was coming to a place that I would be just outrageous hot by now. I can't go out after dark without putting more clothes on. As far as human caused? My sister said I brought the cold with me from the North. So I guess it's my fault, everyone. I sent the hot away from here and gave it to everyone else. Guess there's no point in chasing it, the cold will just follow me around. Sigh.

I just hope we get some REAL heat before winter! I'd like to have at least a tad of summer before then.

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Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Gee Thom - I would kill for a week of nights like that. I thought I was coming to a place that I would be just outrageous hot by now. I can't go out after dark without putting more clothes on. As far as human caused? My sister said I brought the cold with me from the North. So I guess it's my fault, everyone. I sent the hot away from here and gave it to everyone else. Guess there's no point in chasing it, the cold will just follow me around. Sigh.

I just hope we get some REAL heat before winter! I'd like to have at least a tad of summer before then.

I understand Sal.
I'm still getting blamed for bringing the heat back with me from Florida.
Funny thing is it was hotter here then there when I was in Fl. and it cooled off as soon as I got home.
People are dumb

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Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
Getting old ain't for sissy's
As you are I was, as I am you will be
You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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KenThompson

14 years ago

Heard the temps are gonna be in the mid 80s tomorrow and through
the weekend.

Big... Y A Y.

Also, on an unrelated note, The Expendables is opening on Friday just
up the street from me.

Big YAY number two.

I don't know about the rest of you, but that's a definite up-trend in my
book. I know, life is simple. That's fine with me. I like simple. That's why
I like Lawrence.

Ken

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KenThompson

Heard the temps are gonna be in the mid 80s tomorrow and through
the weekend.

Big... Y A Y.

Also, on an unrelated note, The Expendables is opening on Friday just
up the street from me.

Big YAY number two.

I don't know about the rest of you, but that's a definite up-trend in my
book. I know, life is simple. That's fine with me. I like simple. That's why
I like Lawrence.

Ken

That's one of the few movies I want to see.
Let me know how it is.

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Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
Getting old ain't for sissy's
As you are I was, as I am you will be
You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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U.S. Heatwave: What's The Deal???

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