Is it possible that Obama just might be the right guy?

48 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
  • |
I'm really curious about this one. Some of you guys seem so sure that an Obama presidency is going to be disasterous.

Obviously, none of us know factually if he's the right or wrong choice, regardless of our opinions.

What if he gets in office and the country really does improve? Then what? Will you still consider him to be a left wing radical?

When I look at each candidate, I see two people that could potentially be excellent presidents. I don't see two bad people at all. I also see two qualified people.

I've seen negative videos on each candidate linking them to questionable people. I've never held it against them.

I don't care about Ayers or Liddy.

I personally know ex-murderers. I've even hung out with them... Not once have I ever considered killing anyone.

I just think that it will be interesting to see how the NoBamians respond to a successful Obama presidency.



  • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
    Great post!
    ...not much can be done in short 4 years to a country that is almost destroyed... but I am sure that ANY improvements would be very noticeable.
    Signature
    Alex Sol, Full time online marketer since 2007
    The Extra Paycheck Blog | Extra Paycheck Podcast
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[220412].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author KimW
      Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

      Great post!
      ...not much can be done in short 4 years to a country that is almost destroyed... but I am sure that ANY improvements would be very noticeable.

      I disagree. It only took bush 8 years to almost destroy it
      Signature

      Read A Post.
      Subscribe to a Newsletter
      KimWinfrey.Com

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[220682].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author pcalvert
        Originally Posted by KimW View Post

        I disagree. It only took bush 8 years to almost destroy it
        Bush did some stupid things, but it's not fair to put all of the blame on him. I think his biggest mistake was invading Iraq, and that has definitely had an influence on current conditions, but there are other factors that have little or nothing to do with him.

        Phil
        Signature

        "If a cat sits on a hot stove, that cat won't sit on a hot stove again.
        That cat won't sit on a cold stove either." - Mark Twain

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[220708].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Wakunahum
          If he gets in and does a good job, that's great.

          There are issues to deal with at the moment that have nothing to do with right or left wing politics. (Actually this is true most of the time).

          If some of the central, crucial problems are dealt with, wonderful.

          For example, there are only so many years we can have a 500 billion dollar deficit as we already have for 2009. I can care less if the person who deals with an issue like this believes the way I do or not as long as they deal with the problems at hand.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[220726].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author KimW
          Originally Posted by pcalvert View Post

          Bush did some stupid things, but it's not fair to put all of the blame on him. I think his biggest mistake was invading Iraq, and that has definitely had an influence on current conditions, but there are other factors that have little or nothing to do with him.

          Phil
          You are correct. It was bush, cheney and the repub legislative branches.
          Iraq is only one of numerous things bush did.

          marcanthony, I personally thought the best option for our country was Ron Paul, a republican, but I will settle for Obama over McCain any day.
          Signature

          Read A Post.
          Subscribe to a Newsletter
          KimWinfrey.Com

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[220771].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            I am a Paul fan, too - and hope he does the trick in 2012.

            As far as what we can expect from anyone in office - who knows? Anything can happen. The campaigns are so fabricated on lies any more that there is no way to know what will happen. I think anyone who votes 2 party this time is courting disaster. I also would like to remind all the people that said they are kicking EVERYONE out of office who voted for that fascist bailout -- BOTH Obama and McCain voted for the bailout yet you are ready to vote one of them into office. Great. When you elect people who vote against the constitution you are courting disaster no matter who that person is or what their position. We might be able to point a finger at our elected officials this time around (and the ones that usurped their way in, too, because we allowed it to happen) -- but this time around, if we get a dictator or treasoner we can only look into the mirror to find out who the blame lays with. This election the only question which remains is:
            Are we smart enough to be Americans?
            Signature

            Sal
            When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
            Beyond the Path

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[220825].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author pcalvert
            Originally Posted by KimW View Post

            You are correct. It was bush, cheney and the repub legislative branches.
            Iraq is only one of numerous things bush did.
            You left out the Democrats. They share in the responsibility, whether you like it or not.

            Phil
            Signature

            "If a cat sits on a hot stove, that cat won't sit on a hot stove again.
            That cat won't sit on a cold stove either." - Mark Twain

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[221345].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author KimW
              Originally Posted by pcalvert View Post

              You left out the Democrats. They share in the responsibility, whether you like it or not.

              Phil
              What were the numbers in the house and senate of each?
              Signature

              Read A Post.
              Subscribe to a Newsletter
              KimWinfrey.Com

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[221367].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author pcalvert
                Originally Posted by KimW View Post

                What were the numbers in the house and senate of each?
                Not sure how that's relevant. And you left out the Whitehouse. One needs to consider the previous administration (at a minimum) since it can take many years for the effect of some actions to become noticeable.
                Signature

                "If a cat sits on a hot stove, that cat won't sit on a hot stove again.
                That cat won't sit on a cold stove either." - Mark Twain

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[221726].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author KimW
                  Originally Posted by pcalvert View Post

                  Not sure how that's relevant. And you left out the Whitehouse. One needs to consider the previous administration (at a minimum) since it can take many years for the effect of some actions to become noticeable.
                  And I'm not sure how you can not see how it's relevant. You're actually changing the whole discussion now.
                  But no, we don't need to consider the previous administration.bush is the one that put this country in an illegal and immoral war.bush and his cronies are they ones reaping millions in profits while sending our troops over to die. And Mccain wants to continue the policies. Why, McCain is now saying in his speeches how he can't wait to put the surge in effect in Afghanistan. Terrrific.bush is the one that has tried to erode away our rights. Could go on and on, but I won't.

                  To answer your question marcanthony, it is possible.
                  All of us can sit here and speculate but the only thing we can really do is sit back and watch what Tuesday brings.
                  Signature

                  Read A Post.
                  Subscribe to a Newsletter
                  KimWinfrey.Com

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[221750].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author pcalvert
                    Originally Posted by KimW View Post

                    And I'm not sure how you can not see how it's relevant. You're actually changing the whole discussion now.
                    But no, we don't need to consider the previous administration.
                    If you're mainly talking about the war in Iraq, then we can probably safely leave Bill Clinton out the discussion. But if you are considering the current economic conditions as part of this discussion, then the previous administration MUST be included.

                    Phil
                    Signature

                    "If a cat sits on a hot stove, that cat won't sit on a hot stove again.
                    That cat won't sit on a cold stove either." - Mark Twain

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[222812].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Lance K
            Originally Posted by KimW View Post

            You are correct. It was bush, cheney and the repub legislative branches.
            Iraq is only one of numerous things bush did.
            Just imagine all the "blunders" that would have been avoided if Bill "Humidor" Clinton nabbed Bin Laden when he had the chance.
            Signature
            "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
            ~ Zig Ziglar
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[227782].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Lance K
              I didn't think he was the right guy for the job. But now he has the job. And I hope I'm wrong. Cuz I'd rather see America prosper than me be right.
              Signature
              "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
              ~ Zig Ziglar
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[227789].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
          Originally Posted by pcalvert View Post

          Bush did some stupid things, but it's not fair to put all of the blame on him.
          I don't think it's fair to blame Bush for much of anything. As far as I can tell, he's just been a figurehead who says and does what he's told.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[221764].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Jeffrey Louis
          Originally Posted by pcalvert View Post

          Bush did some stupid things, but it's not fair to put all of the blame on him. I think his biggest mistake was invading Iraq, and that has definitely had an influence on current conditions, but there are other factors that have little or nothing to do with him.

          Phil
          Bush was President.... so he gets the blame! Think he did anything to try to help hahaha? There is NO reason for being in Iraq and there has not been! It is completely rediculous... and McCain wants to finish and be victorious??? Victorious of what? So rediculous.

          I wouldn't be so mad if were in the right country. Does he know anything about Afghanastan.

          The United States needs change.... not the same... I hope everyone votes and happy election day. Thank goodness Bush is on his way out.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[226430].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
            Originally Posted by pcalvert View Post

            I think his biggest mistake was invading Iraq, and that has definitely had an influence on current conditions, but there are other factors that have little or nothing to do with him.

            Phil
            War is one of the biggest reasons why we're in debt now. We need to eliminate the war asap. We need to mind our own business and protect ourselves here at home.

            What are we afraid of that we have to go to war so much?


            [quote=Jeffrey Louis;226430] and McCain wants to finish and be victorious??? Victorious of what? So rediculous.
            [quote]

            McCain is just bent out of shape since hes a POW and wants to take his aggression out on other countries. Protecting ourselves at home is one thing, but going to war in other countries costs too much money and lives. We don't need that sh*t.
            Signature

            "One Man's Ceiling is Another Man's Floor
            "


            "I Pay Less Attention to What Men Say. I Just Watch What They Do."
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[226439].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Darth Executor
              Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer View Post

              McCain is just bent out of shape since hes a POW and wants to take his aggression out on other countries. Protecting ourselves at home is one thing, but going to war in other countries costs too much money and lives. We don't need that sh*t.

              Am I to take it that you're going to vote for McCain then, considering Obama's been considerably more outspoken about bombing a nuclear power with a population of 200 million?
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[226446].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Darth Executor
            Originally Posted by Jeffrey Louis View Post

            Think he did anything to try to help hahaha?
            You mean like trying to regulate fanny and freddie and have democrats tell him everything's ok?

            There is NO reason for being in Iraq and there has not been! It is completely rediculous... and McCain wants to finish and be victorious??? Victorious of what? So rediculous.
            I dunno what news you watch but the Iraq war is pretty much over and we won.

            I wouldn't be so mad if were in the right country. Does he know anything about Afghanastan.
            It's a wild guess but I'm guessing he at least knows how to spell its name.

            The United States needs change....
            Here we agree. That's why I hope the dimwitted puppet of terrorists, thugs and corrupt bureaucrats, Obama, loses.


            PS: If Bush is so bad and Obama is "change", why did Obama give bush 700 billion dollars?
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[226442].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author acreativetouch
        Originally Posted by KimW View Post

        I disagree. It only took bush 8 years to almost destroy it
        Actually, it started with Bush Senior in the Gulf war to bring this country down. The first president to begin the dismantling process of this country was Clinton. It's taken longer than 8 years. Whoever gets elected is already chosen.

        Now, to answer the question of this post:

        1) Obama refuses to submit birth certificate. There are numerous lawsuits contesting that fact, even into the supreme court. That alone should have disqualified him from campaigning for one day---much less on the verge of being elected. Why would the Democratic party have a candidate whose natural born citizenship is questionable? Even the Democratic party is LIBERAL. Until recently, they aren't THAT liberal. They still follow the US Constitution at least THAT much---don't they?
        Atlas Shrugs: ATLAS EXCLUSIVE: FINAL REPORT ON OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE FORGERY CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN

        israelinsider: politics: Unstamped certificate suggests Obama may not be "natural born" US citizen


        2) When you are President, your SECURITY CLEARANCE is strict. YOU CANNOT ASSOCIATE WITH CERTAIN PERSONS. You stated you hang out with murders? You could not get a top secret level security clearance due to associations. Obama hangs out with known terrorists? that is a national security threat. He will be commander and chief, knowing ALL STRATEGIC MILITARY plans involving anti-terrorism which could involve his friends? Because of association, he doesn't qualify.

        Many youtube videos on this topic, some DEBUNK Obama's terrorist ties as being "Republican smear" tactics.

        3) This is one that I've stood by since I started voting in 1980---I do not vote for ANYONE who is not Pro-Life. It's not a matter of "respecting a person's right to choose" it's a point of standing by the constitutional rights of ALL AMERICANS REGARDLESS OF AGE, RESIDENCY, or SOCIAL STATUS. This man sponsored a bill that would kill a new born child? Concern and upholding the sanctity of human life and the protection of the citizens under the US constitution is VITAL to being President of the US. He has shown respect to neither.

        I made a very difficult decision last night....to not participate as a poll worker, a job that I very much enjoy because whoever is "chosen" was already decided and all we are is going through the motions picking another satrap. Yes, I voted via mail. This is no longer the country I grew up in. It's transitioning to something that I always been taught to fear and despise.

        We have to decide what are we going to do to survive the implementation of the NAU? What is your plan once we REALLY start falling apart? Are you going to leave the US? Are you going to find a place to escape anarchy, riots, and the other insanity that is coming? What are you going to do to protect yourself and your family?

        I'm going to class to become an herbalist & acupuncturist to help as many as I can.

        dorothy
        Signature

        Dorothy Carlson
        Phoenix Natural Health

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[225834].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
        Originally Posted by KimW View Post

        I disagree. It only took bush 8 years to almost destroy it
        Clinton started it. Especially the housing market.

        Do some research.

        Also, we wont know how good or bad Bush really was untill 2-4 years from now. Just like Obama, we wont know until he is either gone or close to it.

        It's, normally, years before we see the true results of the actions of our leaders.
        Signature
        Screw You, NameCheap!
        $1 Off NameSilo Domain Coupons:

        SAVEABUCKDOMAINS & DOLLARDOMAINSAVINGS
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[227882].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          That might normally be the case, but I don't think we need to wait that long with Bush.

          Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

          Also, we wont know how good or bad Bush really was untill 2-4 years from now. Just like Obama, we wont know until he is either gone or close to it.

          It's, normally, years before we see the true results of the actions of our leaders.
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[227902].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Lance K
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            That might normally be the case, but I don't think we need to wait that long with Bush.
            You know who's worse than Bush? Idiot lenders and irresponsible borrowers who deserve to be left to wallow in their own stench via bankruptcy.
            Signature
            "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
            ~ Zig Ziglar
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[228408].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
          Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

          Clinton started it. Especially the housing market.

          Do some research.

          Also, we wont know how good or bad Bush really was untill 2-4 years from now. Just like Obama, we wont know until he is either gone or close to it.

          It's, normally, years before we see the true results of the actions of our leaders.

          uhm..8 years is a long time, and it takes less than 8 years to make a list of what tax and gvt money is spent on and to get an idea whether it makes sense or not - and to get an idea whether its wise to continue a certain path or not, eg. military presence in iraq/afghanistan etc..it is money spent RIGHT NOW which you (the us) does not HAVE...and there are urgent things to fix in your very own backyard...RIGHT NOW or ASAP. Does it take 10+ years to get the hint?
          Signature
          *** Affiliate Site Quick --> The Fastest & Easiest Way to Make Affiliate Sites!<--
          -> VISIT www.1UP-SEO.com *** <- Internet Marketing, SEO Tips, Reviews & More!! ***
          *** HIGH QUALITY CONTENT CREATION +++ Manual Article Spinning (Thread Here) ***
          Content Creation, Blogging, Articles, Converting Sales Copy, Reviews, Ebooks, Rewrites
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[228096].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author JazzOscar
            Just some points of view from a norwegian.

            I've been a self-employed IT consultant, program developer and data equipment reseller for 25 years now, so I at least try to be a businessman.

            When voting during norwegian elections, I don't necessarily vote for parties that will pocket myself the most money. I try to vote for parties that wants to
            structure the norwegian society in a way that makes it a good and secure place to live for all norwegians. If that makes me a dangerous left wing socalist in the eyes
            of some of you, that's ok with me. I do what I think is the right thing to do.

            Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

            I just don't want a socialist country full of disenchanted, disenfranchised citizens, which we already have. We need someone who will really go back to basics where this country belongs to and is controlled by the people.
            Originally Posted by clint48 View Post

            I agree completely with what you said Patrician! I don't think McCain can do much, but I really think the change Obama is talking about will draw us much closer to a Socialist country and that would be the end of the half way free country we have now.
            To me it seems that you don't know very much about what socialism is. In my view you have nothing to be afraid of. At least in Norway, both the democratic and the republican party would have placed themselves safely on the conservative part of the scale of parties, not even coming close to being looked upon as socialist.

            Originally Posted by Tom Brownsword View Post


            -----

            As an American living in Europe, "anything but Bush" will be a giant step forward. And McCain is "just another
            Bush" to most people over here.

            Time to remember that the rest of the world matters, too.

            Just my opinion,

            Tom

            -----
            I agree with Tom. The last eight years you have built up distance to a lot of countries that have always looked upon themselves as your friends. Not a very good idea in my view.

            Originally Posted by acreativetouch View Post


            -----

            3) This is one that I've stood by since I started voting in 1980---I do not vote for ANYONE who is not Pro-Life. It's not a matter of "respecting a person's right to choose" it's a point of standing by the constitutional rights of ALL AMERICANS REGARDLESS OF AGE, RESIDENCY, or SOCIAL STATUS. This man sponsored a bill that would kill a new born child? Concern and upholding the sanctity of human life and the protection of the citizens under the US constitution is VITAL to being President of the US. He has shown respect to neither.
            All my life I've looked upon myself as a christian so I can appreciate your views on the sanctity of human life. Are you also against death penalty? Many of us europeans looks upon death penalty as uncivilized. As a christian I don't feel I can support it, but as I understand it, many US right wing christians think otherwise. Doesn't the sanctity of human life apply to everyone after all?

            Originally Posted by acreativetouch View Post


            -----

            I made a very difficult decision last night....to not participate as a poll worker, a job that I very much enjoy because whoever is "chosen" was already decided and all we are is going through the motions picking another satrap. Yes, I voted via mail. This is no longer the country I grew up in. It's transitioning to something that I always been taught to fear and despise.

            -----
            So, are you one of those just walking away when things doesn't turn out just like you wanted. Isn't USA a democracy if the majority doesn't agree with you?

            Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post

            No, you don't matter. Most of Europe is brainwashed by far left puppeteers that play you like a banjo. I say this as a former European who's glad to be far, far away from there. That you and your ilk doesn't like McCain is just another bonus point for him.
            Just sorry for your lack of knowledge.

            Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post


            -----

            I am back in Germany now and its incredible to see how good people have it here compared to the statess, in so many "social" aspects. I am not even talking about certain "northern" european countries where people have an even higher standard of living.

            I have the impression (and experienced it myself), eg. talking with my inlaws who are VERY republican - which THINK that everything besides Bush, everything EU specifically is "far left" <--- however those people or YOU define "far left"

            So..we pay high taxes...CORRECT.

            a) mandatory health insurance, even for UNEMPLOYED PEOPLE. In the states you can literally die and rot if you dont have health insurance - not to mention the staggering number of people working 1 or 2 jobs WITHOUT H/S at all.

            I do NOT have the impression at all that "we" are played like banjo...however i see our gvt interested in "global" issues and ecologic/environmental issues...like green house gases...and unemployment issues and healtcare, welfare, social security.

            Does the fact that a gvt cares for such crucial isses make the gvt "socialist" or does this have ANYTHING to do with "picture book socialism" a la Karl Marx.

            -----
            I agree with Georg on this.

            The US health care system seems quite inferior to what we have in Norway.

            To use myself as an example of how things can work out if everyone pulls together financing a good health care system:

            * For 18 years I suffered from a chronic colon disease. This, amongst other problems, had a very negative impact on my personal finances. I wouldn't have had a chance at all to pay for surgery in a privatized health care system.

            * October 2001 I had massive surgery, my colon was removed and I spent 12 days in hospital. As I understood it, 4 surgeons and 4-8 other persons took part during the surgery that went on for maybe 5-6 hours. Not a cheap project at all.

            * January 2002 I had some folllow up surgery of a less complicated kind. This time I think I stayed in hospital for 8 days.

            * For all this I paid nothing!

            Although I think the US may have some of the most forefront medical institutions and experts, I've no doubt the norwegian health care model is far superior to the US model.

            Just some thoughts from a non US citizen.
            Signature

            Oscar Toft

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[228267].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
              Originally Posted by JazzOscar View Post



              [...]
              * For all this I paid nothing!
              Its really necessary for the Americans to see the "bigger picture" and NOT solely to focus on "how much taxes we have to pay"...i said i in the other thread (which got deleted):
              If a broken society (broken healthcare, unemployment, social security) gets FIXED...and even if it would require higher taxes <--- it will benefit the INDIVIDUAL at the end.

              You wont have any use of a few dollars tax "saved" if you'd go broke paying medical bills once you become sick...or if you become or are unemployed...or when you are retiring.
              The society "as a whole" (the problems in it) needs to be fixed...those problems needs to be adressed. Money must be spent where its NECESSARY.
              It will be a very long, difficult way for the states since the states are just NOW starting with this..(compared to some other countries with more experience in that field) but it WILL be rewarding for everyone at the end. YOU are part of the society too. Things like unemployment, medical care, SS affect everyone.

              Why will it be rewarding?

              Since a functional society has (at the end) higher BUYING power, people are NOT getting deeper into debt anymore...or going bankrupt because they do have more protection by a "more social" system.

              More social protection/safety == The individual has more money to spend.

              People have more jobs, less bills, People buy and spend more ----> Economy goes UP ---> therefore even a picture-book capitalist would at the end profit from a more stable (and SOCIAL) society.
              If you only can look as far as "paying taxes" you show an incredible closed-mindedness.

              G.
              Signature
              *** Affiliate Site Quick --> The Fastest & Easiest Way to Make Affiliate Sites!<--
              -> VISIT www.1UP-SEO.com *** <- Internet Marketing, SEO Tips, Reviews & More!! ***
              *** HIGH QUALITY CONTENT CREATION +++ Manual Article Spinning (Thread Here) ***
              Content Creation, Blogging, Articles, Converting Sales Copy, Reviews, Ebooks, Rewrites
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[228294].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                Blaming the current crisis on any one president is silly. This mess can be laid at the foot of the Congressional members who have served since Clinton was president.

                CONGRESS - both sides - paid no attention to the looming crisis, didn't understand what was happening, and did not react in time to stop or slow the crisis

                Both parties contributed - the Dems by pushing for everyone to qualify for loans whether they had the money to pay or not - the Republicans by failing to regular banks and lenders or limit their activities in any way and by allowing the unregulated investments to be bundled and sold again and again.

                Pointing fingers won't help and you can't point to any one person and say "they're responsible".
                Signature
                Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                My mind still thinks I'm 25.
                My body thinks my mind is an idiot.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[228392].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author veotis
                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                  Blaming the current crisis on any one president is silly. This mess can be laid at the foot of the Congressional members who have served since Clinton was president.

                  CONGRESS - both sides - paid no attention to the looming crisis, didn't understand what was happening, and did not react in time to stop or slow the crisis

                  Both parties contributed - the Dems by pushing for everyone to qualify for loans whether they had the money to pay or not - the Republicans by failing to regular banks and lenders or limit their activities in any way and by allowing the unregulated investments to be bundled and sold again and again.

                  Pointing fingers won't help and you can't point to any one person and say "they're responsible".
                  Couldn't have said it better myself, Kay. This continuous blaming has got to come to an end. Everyone of OUR elected officials has a hand in everything that has been done to our country. Republican, Democrat, Bush, Clinton, it doesn't matter. You can find good things they have done just as easy as you can find bad things that they have done. So everyone, give it a rest, and remember John F. Kennedy's famous words, "Ask not what my country can do for me, but what I can do for my country!"
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[228788].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author KimW
          Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

          Clinton started it. Especially the housing market.

          Do some research.

          Also, we wont know how good or bad Bush really was untill 2-4 years from now. Just like Obama, we wont know until he is either gone or close to it.

          It's, normally, years before we see the true results of the actions of our leaders.
          Ive done some research,and in addition I have had some very knowledgabe people in the business explain it to me. Clinton did not start it.

          And yes, we ,at least intelligent people, already know how bad bush was we don't have to wait around.
          Maybe it normally is, but this bush made sure we some his worthlessness immediately.He may have been your leader, but he was never mine. He was and will always be a liar and a crook that managed to steal the presidency.
          Signature

          Read A Post.
          Subscribe to a Newsletter
          KimWinfrey.Com

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[228232].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Lance K
            Originally Posted by KimW View Post

            He nay have been your leader, but he was never mine. He was and will always be a liar and a crook that manages to steal the presidency.
            In an attempt to be civil, I'll leave it at this...the above is pure lunacy.
            Signature
            "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
            ~ Zig Ziglar
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[228422].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author KimW
              Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

              In an attempt to be civil, I'll leave it at this...the above is pure lunacy.
              Thank you for pointing it out, I corrected the typos.
              Signature

              Read A Post.
              Subscribe to a Newsletter
              KimWinfrey.Com

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[229307].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Isn't it true that sub-prime mortgages came into the picture in Clinton's regime?

    Isn't it true that Clinton also weakened our miliitary and that the big surplus Dems brag about was partly because of the vast number of military bases Clinton shut down?

    Isn't it true that Bush tried to get off-shore drilling and other measures passed and was shouted out, but these issues are now being tauted as viable solutions by the 'heroes' that will save the day?

    Don't get me wrong I am not a Republican or a Democrat; I would like someone who is not a status quo puppet just for a change.

    I just don't want a socialist country full of disenchanted, disenfranchised citizens, which we already have. We need someone who will really go back to basics where this country belongs to and is controlled by the people.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[221437].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author clint48
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Isn't it true that sub-prime mortgages came into the picture in Clinton's regime?

      Isn't it true that Clinton also weakened our miliitary and that the big surplus Dems brag about was partly because of the vast number of military bases Clinton shut down?

      Isn't it true that Bush tried to get off-shore drilling and other measures passed and was shouted out, but these issues are now being tauted as viable solutions by the 'heroes' that will save the day?

      Don't get me wrong I am not a Republican or a Democrat; I would like someone who is not a status quo puppet just for a change.

      I just don't want a socialist country full of disenchanted, disenfranchised citizens, which we already have. We need someone who will really go back to basics where this country belongs to and is controlled by the people.
      I agree completely with what you said Patrician! I don't think McCain can do much, but I really think the change Obama is talking about will draw us much closer to a Socialist country and that would be the end of the half way free country we have now.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[221644].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author David Allison
      Right on, Patrician!

      Just because the big business bailout happened during the Bush presidency does not mean that he is the cause. This was a hastily put together band aid that will create a gusher in due time.

      The origination of the sub-primes were touted and pushed through by the likes of Harry Reid and Ted Kennedy, yes during Clinton's time.

      I am a Republican, as you might suspect, but I agree with John McCain, if you heard his encouraging concession speech last night. His was a voice of encouragement and hope for our country. We all need to pull it together along with the overwhelming supporters Barack Obama has amassed, and keep our country as the best country in the world. This is the land of opportunity and always will be.

      I just do not want for my children to be faced with impossible financial and security concerns. That is my fear.

      David
      Signature

      David A. Allison, DMD
      "Tired of Being Down in the Mouth"

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[228278].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Tom Brownsword
    Yes. Ron Paul.

    As an American living in Europe, "anything but Bush" will be a giant step forward. And McCain is "just another Bush" to most people over here.

    Time to remember that the rest of the world matters, too.

    Just my opinion,
    Tom

    P.S. -- McCain? They call him "Papa Smurf" in Poland -- in a part of the world where appearances matter... A great man, but his time has come and gone. And that leaves Obama who, if nothing else, is a great marketer. I signed up for his mailing list as soon as he announced and have some great emails for my swipe file!
    Signature

    Tom Brownsword, CISSP®, GCIA, ITILv3
    Certified Computer Security Pro
    http://ProtectorSupport.com
    http://BusinessActionSteps.com
    ------------------------------

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[221748].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Darth Executor
      Originally Posted by Tom Brownsword View Post

      Yes. Ron Paul.

      As an American living in Europe, "anything but Bush" will be a giant step forward. And McCain is "just another Bush" to most people over here.

      Time to remember that the rest of the world matters, too.

      Just my opinion,
      Tom
      No, you don't matter. Most of Europe is brainwashed by far left puppeteers that play you like a banjo. I say this as a former European who's glad to be far, far away from there. That you and your ilk doesn't like McCain is just another bonus point for him.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[226438].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
        Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post

        No, you don't matter. Most of Europe is brainwashed by far left puppeteers that play you like a banjo. I say this as a former European who's glad to be far, far away from there. That you and your ilk doesn't like McCain is just another bonus point for him.
        what country you are talking about?
        I used to live in the states, 8+ years, and i have *seen* and experienced *a lot*
        I am back in Germany now and its incredible to see how good people have it here compared to the statess, in so many "social" aspects. I am not even talking about certain "northern" european countries where people have an even higher standard of living.

        I have the impression (and experienced it myself), eg. talking with my inlaws who are VERY republican - which THINK that everything besides Bush, everything EU specifically is "far left" <--- however those people or YOU define "far left"

        So..we pay high taxes...CORRECT.

        a) mandatory health insurance, even for UNEMPLOYED PEOPLE. In the states you can literally die and rot if you dont have health insurance - not to mention the staggering number of people working 1 or 2 jobs WITHOUT H/S at all.

        I do NOT have the impression at all that "we" are played like banjo...however i see our gvt interested in "global" issues and ecologic/environmental issues...like green house gases...and unemployment issues and healtcare, welfare, social security.

        Does the fact that a gvt cares for such crucial isses make the gvt "socialist" or does this have ANYTHING to do with "picture book socialism" a la Karl Marx.
        If you want socialism, maybe you should have gone to former eastern germany 20 years ago, or any of the former eastern european countries where you had REAL "socialism", i am talking about the one socialsm which really and literally screwed over the people in the worst way ever.

        (By coincedence, i watched an interesting movie yesterday called "The life of others" where it was shown pretty realistically what THIS Socialsm was about)

        It just amazes me that now you guys face a more "left" oriented president...and people start shouting "socialism" and "this country will go downhill"...instead of having faith and give him a chance to repair that mess the us is in right now.

        And..i beg you if you say "most of europe"....it's a WORLD of a difference whether you live in, say, Hungary or Yogoslavia, UK or in Germany.
        Signature
        *** Affiliate Site Quick --> The Fastest & Easiest Way to Make Affiliate Sites!<--
        -> VISIT www.1UP-SEO.com *** <- Internet Marketing, SEO Tips, Reviews & More!! ***
        *** HIGH QUALITY CONTENT CREATION +++ Manual Article Spinning (Thread Here) ***
        Content Creation, Blogging, Articles, Converting Sales Copy, Reviews, Ebooks, Rewrites
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[228087].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author surferman
    no one can be worse than Bush.. so I believe Obama will succeed.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[223681].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
    He might be the right guy for Cuba, but not for the USA.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[223687].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
      Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

      He might be the right guy for Cuba, but not for the USA.
      What makes you so sure?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[225199].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Darth Executor
        Originally Posted by marcanthony View Post

        What makes you so sure?
        - He "aborts" even born children. Virtually alone even in his own party on this
        - Has no problem associating with a wide selection of extremists and criminals, including rezko, ayers, wright, and that PLO scum whose name escapes me.
        - Is a fiscal communist who wants to "spread the wealth", tax "the rich" (who'll just raise prices and speed up inflation anyway), bankrupt coal, and force energy prices to skyrocket for his religion (global warming).
        - He's a part of the corrupt chicago machine
        - He has shown absolutely no willingness to take a stand against his party even when he supposedly disagreed with them (regulating fannie & freddie is the most infuriating example), unless it involves killing children for his abortion industry overlords.

        What could possibly go wrong with such an enlightened luminary at the helm?
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[226454].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Yes Marc, Obama is the right guy for the job. Absolutely.
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[226470].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
          Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post

          - He "aborts" even born children. Virtually alone even in his own party on this
          - Has no problem associating with a wide selection of extremists and criminals, including rezko, ayers, wright, and that PLO scum whose name escapes me.
          - Is a fiscal communist who wants to "spread the wealth", tax "the rich" (who'll just raise prices and speed up inflation anyway), bankrupt coal, and force energy prices to skyrocket for his religion (global warming).
          - He's a part of the corrupt chicago machine
          - He has shown absolutely no willingness to take a stand against his party even when he supposedly disagreed with them (regulating fannie & freddie is the most infuriating example), unless it involves killing children for his abortion industry overlords.

          What could possibly go wrong with such an enlightened luminary at the helm?
          Give it a rest!
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[227733].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Andy Money
          Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post

          - He "aborts" even born children. Virtually alone even in his own party on this
          - Has no problem associating with a wide selection of extremists and criminals, including rezko, ayers, wright, and that PLO scum whose name escapes me.
          - Is a fiscal communist who wants to "spread the wealth", tax "the rich" (who'll just raise prices and speed up inflation anyway), bankrupt coal, and force energy prices to skyrocket for his religion (global warming).
          - He's a part of the corrupt chicago machine
          - He has shown absolutely no willingness to take a stand against his party even when he supposedly disagreed with them (regulating fannie & freddie is the most infuriating example), unless it involves killing children for his abortion industry overlords.

          What could possibly go wrong with such an enlightened luminary at the helm?
          Do you really believe this? What makes you neglect the following things?
          • Common sense
          • 300+ Electoral votes
          • The most educated and influential people endorsing Obama
          • Reputable news sources

          Come on, go take a look in the mirror. You know what you're doing is wrong. Thank you.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[227801].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
      Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

      He might be the right guy for Cuba, but not for the USA.
      well..CUBA is certainly something to be afraid of

      Let's just hypothetically assume the US would become "friendly" with cuba...and we could visit there, get cigars and go swimming at the beach, and those people would be able to come here and check out the bad "capitalism"....wouldn't that be horrible?

      (Ironically, the only one losing would actually be cuba since i can see their people would run off and away to the states - the same way like the former eastern germans did when the wall fell
      Signature
      *** Affiliate Site Quick --> The Fastest & Easiest Way to Make Affiliate Sites!<--
      -> VISIT www.1UP-SEO.com *** <- Internet Marketing, SEO Tips, Reviews & More!! ***
      *** HIGH QUALITY CONTENT CREATION +++ Manual Article Spinning (Thread Here) ***
      Content Creation, Blogging, Articles, Converting Sales Copy, Reviews, Ebooks, Rewrites
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[228093].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    The great thing about the US is the freedom of choice you all enjoy. The right to bare arms, the right to free speech and the right to LEAVE the country if you truly do not agree with it. And Kim that is wrong. He is your leader. period. regardless of whether or not you voted for him. The military understands this. The people elected him. Hence he is everyone's leader till his term is up. Hey I didn't agree with much of what our former PM Chretien did and said. But the people voted for him, hence he was "my" leader.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[228425].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author espacecadet
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[229645].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Wakunahum
      Originally Posted by espacecadet View Post

      Is Obama the right guy?

      To do what?

      Give this country to the Muslims?

      Could be...
      If you have some doubts on Obama (and I'm sure it's not just you or me), it's probably fair to give him some time to prove himself when he is actually in office as president before making claims about what he is or is not going to do.

      Be a critic on what he actually does or does not do, not a critic on something that hasn't happened.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[229653].message }}

Trending Topics