13 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
13 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

Scary New California Law Proposed

by kindsvater
11 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
    • |
Heads up ... this is going to start seeming to be very irrelevant, but I will wrap it all up at the end.

AB1998 in California would essentially outlaw plastic shopping bags. The bill would also require major grocery stores to sell paper grocery bags.

Here's where it gets more than mildly interesting ...

The bill would impose a minimum floor that retailers must sell their paper bags (products) for. At least 5 cents per bag. (Note: the paper bag cost to retailers is far less than a nickel.)

This raises revenue for the state by (1) forcibly increasing the taxable income of grocery stores, and (2) collecting sales tax on the sale of the bags.

While states impose numerous fees and taxes that are often voluntarily passed along to consumers as part of a product's price, help me out here, I have not been able to think of another example where the government dictated to business what products they had to sell and what minimum price they had to be sold for.

Also proposed in California are multiple ways to tax or gain revenue from online sales.

You probably already see the possibilities ...

What if California (or pick your state or country) imposed a minimum amount that you must sell your online products for?

Why wouldn't they, especially since you are "unfairly" competing against bricks and mortar stores by having lower overhead and thus being able to "unfairly" compete on price?

What if California told Google it must charge Adwords advertisers at least ten cents per click?
  • Profile picture of the author Thomas
    Whatever about dictating the type of product sold, there are price floors in industries such as agriculture. Also, many jurisdictions have minimum prices for alcohol to help curb underage drinking.

    Re. the shopping bags: I'm no fan of increased taxation (who is?) but Ireland has had a tax on plastic shopping bags for nearly 10 years. After it was imposed, the usage of such bags dropped by 90% the very next day, and is still dropping; I also don't think I've seen a single instance of plastic bag litter since. All the stores sell heavy-duty plastic bags instead (which cost two or three euros each) but most people, having bought some, keep them and bring them to the shop with them in future. The end result is that, through a slight change in behaviour (which was the purpose of the tax in the first place), which ultimately benefits everybody (less pollution), you can avoid paying it altogether.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2520292].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    California isn't the only place launching campaigns against plastic bags. As far as I'm concerned anywhere that gets rid of these bags deserves a round of applause. Plastic is more of a nightmare for the environment than anything else produced by humans - it's toxic and it is being thrown everywhere that people get tired of carrying it. It kills wildlife and now constitutes a continent size floating landfill in the ocean.

    As far as their other taxes - I am in California right now. I can not get a temporary job here unless I get California plates for my car. I have had it less than one year -- so they feel they are entitled to have me pay them a sales tax on the car. I paid a sales tax last February when I bought the car.
    I refuse. I won't be staying here permanently and refuse to be forced to be made into a California citizen just to stay here temporarily - especially if I am going to have money extorted from me to do so. I am totally online until I get out of this swill.

    This thread will probably be deleted, but hell it was so nice to rant -- I am sooooo furious with their crap about forced CA registration and sales tax on my car I could just spit. I wanted to stay til next spring, but now it doesn't look like I'll be doing so. So much for avoiding the snow this year.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2520338].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      California isn't the only place launching campaigns against plastic bags. As far as I'm concerned anywhere that gets rid of these bags deserves a round of applause. Plastic is more of a nightmare for the environment than anything else produced by humans - it's toxic and it is being thrown everywhere that people get tired of carrying it. It kills wildlife and now constitutes a continent size floating landfill in the ocean.
      .
      where we live in South Australia, plastic shopping bags have been banned for ages and are completely removed from all shopping centers, people all use re usable cloth type shopping bags now across the state.

      not sure on the numbers of plastic bags that have stopped being used but it is massive.

      in addition all of our drink bottles have claimable money for recycling purposes and most if not all drink containers are returned for recycle.

      it would not be perfect but it is darn close.

      the funny thing is the whole state per say supports it and everyone does their part to help keep everything enviro friendly

      we have large household recycle bins dedicated to home recyclables we have dedicated compost / green bins and biodegradable plastic liner bags for that supplied by council and a general waste bin.

      overall all up to around 75% of what used to be land fill is now mulch r recycle as well.

      We are also now pioneering solar power in big ways as well, going very green i suppose down here.
      Signature
      | > Choosing to go off the grid for a while to focus on family, work and life in general. Have a great 2020 < |
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2520480].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Move to Montana and raise dental floss.

    Amber waves of floss, purple mountains, big skies.

    I'm from Montana - Great Falls. Explains a lot, doesn't it?

    Or maybe just part of it...


    Ken
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2520426].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

    Heads up ... this is going to start seeming to be very irrelevant, but I will wrap it all up at the end.

    AB1998 in California would essentially outlaw plastic shopping bags. The bill would also require major grocery stores to sell paper grocery bags.

    Here's where it gets more than mildly interesting ...

    The bill would impose a minimum floor that retailers must sell their paper bags (products) for. At least 5 cents per bag. (Note: the paper bag cost to retailers is far less than a nickel.)

    This raises revenue for the state by (1) forcibly increasing the taxable income of grocery stores, and (2) collecting sales tax on the sale of the bags.

    While states impose numerous fees and taxes that are often voluntarily passed along to consumers as part of a product's price, help me out here, I have not been able to think of another example where the government dictated to business what products they had to sell and what minimum price they had to be sold for.

    Also proposed in California are multiple ways to tax or gain revenue from online sales.

    You probably already see the possibilities ...

    What if California (or pick your state or country) imposed a minimum amount that you must sell your online products for?

    Why wouldn't they, especially since you are "unfairly" competing against bricks and mortar stores by having lower overhead and thus being able to "unfairly" compete on price?

    What if California told Google it must charge Adwords advertisers at least ten cents per click?
    Almost every state (major city) does regulate the cab industry and tell cab drivers how much they can charge. Same for many power companies and RTDs. See "PUC".
    Signature
    Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
    Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2520930].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Almost every state (major city) does regulate the cab industry and tell cab drivers how much they can charge. Same for many power companies and RTDs. See "PUC".
      Yeah, but those are things some people MUST use, are regulated by the government, and basically should have a FIXED cost. YEAH, I KNOW, some MORONS like ENRON can do things to jack up the cost of electricity, power, etc... and some IDIOT can get all the medalions, or whatever they are called, and LEASE cars for taxis. But those are supposed to generally NOT be the case.

      For those that don't know, in many places taxis have to be cars LICENSED to be taxis with drivers ALSO appropriately licensed. ALSO, pickup from some areas, like airports, ALSO often requires a fee/arrangement, and even TOLLS may be higher. HECK, in one washington DC airport there is only ONE company licensed to pickup passengers without a prior reservation! I was SHOCKED how much people in some places, like boston, have to PAY to be taxi drivers! They can't get a licensed car because the licenses are all soldout, so they have to LEASE a car! So a car that might lease for about $199/mo from a dealer may cost OVER $600 from a taxi company that has it licensed. And I think they have to pay a portion of the profits also.

      For ecommerce, for example, distribution costs may be effectively ZERO (although LARGE distributions and shoddy software or careless use can drive up bandwidth costs in a HURRY), but creation, support, and other costs CAN come into the picture. The government can have NO idea what that is. AND, there are MONTHLY fees that can be high. ALSO, it is generally NOT needed.

      I have a proper answer to ALL the problems regarding ecommerce, taxing, various budgets, etc...., but that is too political. Oh well, OTHERS have the SAME idea, and are working on it. I don't think it will pass, since it will reduce the power of a LOT of people required to pass it, but I can DREAM.

      Steve
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2521986].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        Yeah, but those are things some people MUST use, are regulated by the government, and basically should have a FIXED cost.

        People don't have to buy grocery bags. They can take back the ones they get from the store or buy permanent bags.

        For those that don't know, in many places taxis have to be cars LICENSED to be taxis with drivers ALSO appropriately licensed. ALSO, pickup from some areas, like airports, ALSO often requires a fee/arrangement, and even TOLLS may be higher. HECK, in one washington DC airport there is only ONE company licensed to pickup passengers without a prior reservation! I was SHOCKED how much people in some places, like boston, have to PAY to be taxi drivers! They can't get a licensed car because the licenses are all soldout, so they have to LEASE a car! So a car that might lease for about $199/mo from a dealer may cost OVER $600 from a taxi company that has it licensed. And I think they have to pay a portion of the profits also.
        There's two types of payment: Lease or split. Lease you pay a flat rate, and the bosses don't care how hard you work. Split, you get a percentage of the meter, and the bosses push you to make more so they make more. I'm not aware of any companies that are both.

        Right now, to lease a medallion only in Denver from a cab co. is about $225 a WEEK. Add on car payment/lease, maintainence, gas, oil, etc and in Denver it costs about $700+ a week for an owner/operator.

        With the bad economy, my long-time friend has to work about 40 hours just to make payoff (break even) each week. He's got a college degree and has driven for almost 30 years, so he's smart and experienced, that's not the problem.

        The taxi business is a great indication of how the economy is doing...If people aren't traveling for business or pleasure, aren't going out to eat and drink, etc, cab drivers will be the first to know it.
        Signature
        Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
        Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2522821].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author savingstuffnow
    That is a scary law... hmm interesting though.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2522033].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
    I'll have to check - but some of the counties on the Outer Banks here either have or have asked for such a ban in their counties. No tax/fee/license that I know of. Can't say that I disagree.

    I am curious - some states like Michigan and Maine have deposits on plastic bottles - for softdrinks etc. I'm wondering if fellow warriors in those states have seen a decrease in litter over the years with those deposits in place? I've often wonders if there's any arbitrage opportunities too - but can't say I'm up to collect enough 0.05$ bottles and then drive to Maine from NC to see ;-).

    As for silly laws Bryan - yea, I agree with you - and there are several here in NC - Wake County - and Cary to curl your toes. 2 that don't sit well with me are our download tax on electronic items (yea - like PDFs!!!) and of course their attempted end run around the Supreme Court decision that foreign (out of state) companies have to collect and remit sales tax if they have an affiliate in the state - since that of course creates a Nexus. Don't even get me started on that.....

    finally - totally off topic - I remember my mamaw using a basket to go get grociers. Further back in time folks carried their own spoon and knife (which they also used as a fork) even if they went out to a pub. Obviously in our PC socity we'll never see the ability to carry a knife like that - but it would be interesting if folks started carrying their own bags, napkins, spoons, even cups. Would cut down on a lot of the litter from fast food joints etc. Just a thought.

    --Jack
    Signature
    Let's get Tim the kidney he needs!HELP Tim
    Mega Monster WSO for KimW http://ow.ly/4JdHm


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2522484].message }}

Trending Topics