Why do Internet Marketers always insult McDonald's employees?

by Hanz
42 replies
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I've noticed based on reading the General Forum for the past while that most of the time when a disagreement ensues between a rather successful internet marketer and a not-so-successful internet marketer, the rather successful IMer usually makes the very disparaging quip of something like "You can go work at McDonalds since IM obviously isn't for you!" :confused:

When I go to McDonalds, I see mostly high school kids or college kids working there. Not too many adults. Maybe times have changed and McDonalds has become more of a "stepping stone" type job for the younger group as they go onward to their real jobs after completion of their studies. I'm not quite sure the popular "Go work at McDonalds" quip hangs.

Besides, somebody needs to flip burgers and make the fries. If everybody in the world started doing IM, who's going to work the real jobs out there? It would be awful if all the teachers, doctors, technicians, store-workers, etc, etc, etc quit their jobs so they could stay home working full-time in IM. We'd all be screwed!:p

Long Live 9-5 and McDonalds!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Maybe its because the once mighty McDonalds has gone downhill so badly.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hanz
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Maybe its because the once mighty McDonalds has gone downhill so badly.
      There's no shortage of McDonalds out there. That's all I know.
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  • Profile picture of the author xTrav
    Banned
    Hanz is right! Someone has to flip them burgers! Someone has to clean the bathrooms and scrub the floors! No matter how many millions of people decide to stay at home and sell stuff online, SOMEONE still has to physically deliver the products to the buyer! That is why FedEx and UPS will never go out of business. That is why Hotels will always be in business because IM's love to travel. And they love to eat so restaurants will always be around too. Someone has to wash the dishes?? And how about the sewage plants and waste management companies who dispose of our trash?? Dirty jobs will always exist.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hanz
      Originally Posted by xTrav View Post

      Hanz is right! Someone has to flip them burgers! Someone has to clean the bathrooms and scrub the floors! No matter how many millions of people decide to stay at home and sell stuff online, SOMEONE still has to physically deliver the products to the buyer! That is why FedEx and UPS will never go out of business. That is why Hotels will always be in business because IM's love to travel. And they love to eat so restaurants will always be around too. Someone has to wash the dishes?? And how about the sewage plants and waste management companies who dispose of our trash?? Dirty jobs will always exist.
      Yup! But rather, I think they should all try IM sometime. They can stay home and work for themselves and build lists and create cool niche sites and make money online through Adsense and Amazon and make massive products by JVing with the big players. Who wants to wake up everyday in the morning and travel to work and be told what to do by a snotty disgusting boss anyway?
      (This is just tongue in cheek humour! No offense intended towards anyone.)
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      • Profile picture of the author xTrav
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Hanz View Post

        Yup! But rather, I think they should all try IM sometime. They can stay home and work for themselves and build lists and create cool niche sites and make money online through Adsense and Amazon and make massive products by JVing with the big players. Who wants to wake up everyday in the morning and travel to work and be told what to do by a snotty disgusting boss anyway?
        (This is just tongue in cheek humour! No offense intended towards anyone.)
        Well sir, this is why I came to this forum. I want to learn how to quit my job. I just need a lil help...advice and pointers.
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        • Profile picture of the author Hanz
          Originally Posted by xTrav View Post

          Well sir, this is why I came to this forum. I want to learn how to quit my job. I just need a lil help...advice and pointers.
          Good on ya xTrav! A step in the right direction! What do you do for a job right now if you don't mind me asking?
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          • Profile picture of the author xTrav
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Hanz View Post

            Good on ya xTrav! A step in the right direction! What do you do for a job right now if you don't mind me asking?
            I am in sales right now. I sell anything from office supplies to computers, printers, and ink. I am currently looking into becoming an Amazon affiliate but all of those guys over at Wicked Fire told me that you can't make any money from it these days?
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            • Profile picture of the author Hanz
              Originally Posted by xTrav View Post

              I am in sales right now. I sell anything from office supplies to computers, printers, and ink. I am currently looking into becoming an Amazon affiliate but all of those guys over at Wicked Fire told me that you can't make any money from it these days?
              Affiliate marketing is huge! Great first step. Head over to the General discussion if you haven't already. Great material there.
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Originally Posted by xTrav View Post

              I am in sales right now. I sell anything from office supplies to computers, printers, and ink. I am currently looking into becoming an Amazon affiliate but all of those guys over at Wicked Fire told me that you can't make any money from it these days?
              Considering all the different products Amazon offers I would think you still can make some money there.
              I know their commissions aren't the greatest.
              One problem people may have is trying to promote or sell Amazon instead of focusing in on products.
              For example I've seen sites with just random Amazon products on them.
              A better approach would be to develop a niche specific site and promote Amazon products relevant to that niche.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Besides, somebody needs to flip burgers and make the fries. If everybody in the world started doing IM, who's going to work the real jobs out there? It would be awful if all the teachers, doctors, technicians, store-workers, etc, etc, etc quit their jobs so they could stay home working full-time in IM. We'd all be screwed!
      There was a thread here a year or so ago about how everyone should word from home online.
      It developed into a thread bashing everyone who has a job.
      I reminded everyone if it wasn't for people having jobs, you wouldn't be able to work at home online.
      People with jobs deserve some praise, not ridicule.
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      • Profile picture of the author KimW
        Originally Posted by Hanz View Post

        There's no shortage of McDonalds out there. That's all I know.
        I thought we were discussing quality, not quantity.

        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        There was a thread here a year or so ago about how everyone should word from home online.
        It developed into a thread bashing everyone who has a job.
        I reminded everyone if it wasn't for people having jobs, you wouldn't be able to work at home online.
        People with jobs deserve some praise, not ridicule.
        I must have missed that thread, at least I certainly don't remember it,Thom.
        And I mostly agree with you,but not completely. People with jobs that do a good job deserve praise.Its not the job,but how much of you you put in the job. I must admit, McDonalds is never my first choice when I am forced to eat fast food,but when I do go there the service is terrible, the food was made last week and reheated in a microwave and way overpriced. Now the employees have no control over two our of three of those problems, but they do have control to some extent of the service.
        I have had the order taker texting someone while I wa giving my order.
        I have had the order taker stand there with both hands in his pocket slouching looking like he was doing me a favor by taking my order.
        I have had three order takers standing and talking to each other while there were lines of people waiting to be served.
        Those people may have a job, but they certainly don't deserve praise.
        Actually, imo they don't even derserve the job they have. Give it to someone that would appreciate it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Hanz
          Originally Posted by KimW View Post

          I thought we were discussing quality, not quantity.



          I must have missed that thread, at least I certainly don't remember it,Thom.
          And I mostly agree with you,but not completely. People with jobs that do a good job deserve praise.Its not the job,but how much of you you put in the job. I must admit, McDonalds is never my first choice when I am forced to eat fast food,but when I do go there the service is terrible, the food was made last week and reheated in a microwave and way overpriced. Now the employees have no control over two our of three of those problems, but they do have control to some extent of the service.
          I have had the order taker texting someone while I wa giving my order.
          I have had the order taker stand there with both hands in his pocket slouching looking like he was doing me a favor by taking my order.
          I have had three order takers standing and talking to each other while there were lines of people waiting to be served.
          Those people may have a job, but they certainly don't deserve praise.
          Actually, imo they don't even derserve the job they have. Give it to someone that would appreciate it.
          Hah! I get much better service over here, Kim. Last week, I ordered 2 Big Macs and large fries. The lady put in 3 Big Macs. So I had 3 Big Macs and Large Fries that evening! Despite feeling terribly sick the morning after, what matters is that the service was stupendous! You must try Canadian McDonalds, Kim!
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by KimW View Post

          I thought we were discussing quality, not quantity.



          I must have missed that thread, at least I certainly don't remember it,Thom.
          And I mostly agree with you,but not completely. People with jobs that do a good job deserve praise.Its not the job,but how much of you you put in the job. I must admit, McDonalds is never my first choice when I am forced to eat fast food,but when I do go there the service is terrible, the food was made last week and reheated in a microwave and way overpriced. Now the employees have no control over two our of three of those problems, but they do have control to some extent of the service.
          I have had the order taker texting someone while I wa giving my order.
          I have had the order taker stand there with both hands in his pocket slouching looking like he was doing me a favor by taking my order.
          I have had three order takers standing and talking to each other while there were lines of people waiting to be served.
          Those people may have a job, but they certainly don't deserve praise.
          Actually, imo they don't even derserve the job they have. Give it to someone that would appreciate it.
          I stand corrected and you are correct. People with jobs who do a good job are the ones to be praised. Those that do a crappy job deserve, nothing.
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          • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
            That experienced, successful IM peep might be faking it till they make it so they might be making less than the McDonald's employee.

            It's just a figure speech for a low-paying job that just about anyone can do that is hard work. I also hear people use "ditch diggers" for the same analogy.

            Nothing personal to the hard working people it's just most people understand what you mean when they say that phrase.
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  • Profile picture of the author xTrav
    Banned
    By the way I got banned from Wicked Fire today...to me it seems that there are only teenage kids over there that just talk a lot of trash. This forum seems more professional.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Hanz,

    Mcdonalds, and jobs like it, USED to be a steping stone for teenagers. NOW, you may see people that are FAR older working at the lowest level there.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author reapr
    I don't know what the beef is! I think is just a reference to j.o.b. that is one that pays minimum wage or close to it.

    You know one could be flipping sites and making much less than flipping burgers or making more depending on how successful one is. Working a minimum wage j.o.b use to be a stepping stone but for many who have been laid off or having to return to the workforce because their retirement fund or 401 has taken a big hit is now a reality.

    I don't think anyone is singling out mickey d's. They could have referred to wally world, bk or dq in reference to a j.o.b (just over broke)! Nothing personal.

    So yeah for those making such a statement including myself if I have ever said it are likely saying it out of ignorance or arrogance and I hope one would how a little more sensitivity in the future.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    This is ANOTHER for the mindset thread!

    US: A TIP means THANKYOU, and is given FREELY!! You gave GOOD service!
    THEM: A TIP is MANDATORY and means a CUT of the profits, and is required if you merely move the product from point A to anywhere else. So you deserve a tip EVEN if the food is COLD because you got there late, the order is WRONG because of you, you cussed out the customer, AND you spit in the soup!

    Sorry if I offended anyone, but it is TRUE!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      This is ANOTHER for the mindset thread!

      US: A TIP means THANKYOU, and is given FREELY!! You gave GOOD service!
      THEM: A TIP is MANDATORY and means a CUT of the profits, and is required if you merely move the product from point A to anywhere else. So you deserve a tip EVEN if the food is COLD because you got there late, the order is WRONG because of you, you cussed out the customer, AND you spit in the soup!

      Sorry if I offended anyone, but it is TRUE!

      Steve
      You have no reason to be sorry, Steve, as you didn't say anything to
      warrant it.

      When did this start, almost 10 years ago? The tip jar on the counter for
      people at the counter.

      I've seen lots of tips jars at counters that say, "Tips for the cooks."

      Well hell... how about a whole line of tip jars each with separate labels?

      Tips for the cook's children.
      Tips for the employees' pets - hey, they need to eat, too!
      Tips for my relatives.
      Tips for...

      But this has caught on, hugely, as you all know. And now it's expected.
      I've seen people hand me my change, and they so cleverly put their hand
      right over the tip jar and moved it slowly so it hovered over it.

      Of course that sealed their fate with me. Never will they get anything.

      And just as an fyi, I always tip waiters and waitresses 30% regardless of
      the cost. For guys, if you go to a real barber - a real one - they routinely
      only get tipped about a dollar. I've seen it too many times. But I even tip
      my barber 30% of a $15 haircut.

      Hey, nothing wrong with putting your hand out and asking if you can spare
      a dime, brother. If that's what people want to do. But tips for counter work?
      I don't see it and never do it.


      Ken
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

        You have no reason to be sorry, Steve, as you didn't say anything to
        warrant it.

        When did this start, almost 10 years ago? The tip jar on the counter for
        people at the counter.

        I've seen lots of tips jars at counters that say, "Tips for the cooks."

        Well hell... how about a whole line of tip jars each with separate labels?

        Tips for the cook's children.
        Tips for the employees' pets - hey, they need to eat, too!
        Tips for my relatives.
        Tips for...

        But this has caught on, hugely, as you all know. And now it's expected.
        I've seen people hand me my change, and they so cleverly put their hand
        right over the tip jar and moved it slowly so it hovered over it.

        Of course that sealed their fate with me. Never will they get anything.

        And just as an fyi, I always tip waiters and waitresses 30% regardless of
        the cost. For guys, if you go to a real barber - a real one - they routinely
        only get tipped about a dollar. I've seen it too many times. But I even tip
        my barber 30% of a $15 haircut.

        Hey, nothing wrong with putting your hand out and asking if you can spare
        a dime, brother. If that's what people want to do. But tips for counter work?
        I don't see it and never do it.


        Ken
        I once went to a NICE place the father of an old employer of my wife owns. He owns a vinyard and they have an upscale restaurant there as well. I had the BEST fish I ever had in my life. It was the first time I almost PLEADED to know what the herb was on the fish. But it was just NICE! I WISH there was a reliable way to pay the cook most of the time.
        BTW the herb was FENNEL! I don't think I ever had it before that day. BUT, even without that, the meal would have been SUPERB!

        YIKES! 30%!?!? I try to tip just short of 20%, if it is good service. Some servers have told me some think you are stupid if you pay more, and costs HAVE gone up quite a bit. Besides, usually the service isn't that great. BTW a friend once held me to task for not tipping, and I told him that I only ordered a drink, was ignored for over 20 minutes, almost had to BEG for it, etc... So the idea of no tip was INTENTIONAL!

        steve
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        • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post


          YIKES! 30%!?!? I try to tip just short of 20%, if it is good service. Some servers have told me some think you are stupid if you pay more,

          steve
          Yes, 30%. If the service sucks, then it's less. I went to a restaurant this
          weekend, and the service engineer kept screwing-up something. And I
          had to get up, chase her down (not really chase, though), and remind her
          about something. So I didn't tip her at all. That's rare, but her service was
          uncommonly crappy.

          I'd like to hear the logic behind someone thinking it's stupid to tip more than
          20%. To me, 50% is gauche.

          I tend to frequent the same restaurants, and the servers do take care of
          me above and beyond what they'll do for others, sometimes. Extras at no
          charge all the time. Stuff like that. They appreciate the tips. I don't expect
          the extras, but it's nice when it happens.

          All good, Steve.

          Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Or a tip to us means "we understand that you have contributed to the enjoyment of our experience here."
    A tip to them means "we are here and we are due a tip whether we add or subtract to the experience."
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I'm with you on that Ken, though I have to say I do NOT always tip 30%.
    Why would I want to tip the coffee maker at Starbucks?
    When pizza delivery was free, I would tip the driver.Now where I am at least,they add on a "delivery charge". Well, once I saw them add that on, I stopped tipping the driver.
    There is a place a mile or so down the road from where I live that has a summer business of selling shaved ice. Two bucks for a 10 oz cup with a couple squirts of flavoring added to it,tip jar on counter too. WHy should I tip you? It takes less than 30 seconds to make the darn thing .
    Haircut? I normally tip 3-5 bucks, depending.
    A tip is a GRATUITY,not, as a lot of places seem to think nowadays, a requirement.
    One other thing, if I go to a place that automatically adds the "tip" in the bill,that is usually all the waiter will get, even if normally they would have gotten more from me,because at that point it is no longer a tip but part of the required payment.
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  • Profile picture of the author bevasllanaj
    This post is interesting to me, having been a restaurant manager for 10 years, and working in the restaurant industry for 15 years, but now in IM!
    I totally agree about not tipping for counter service, because transferring a muffin from the chill cabinet onto a tray does not warrant a tip!

    However, in the UK, I understand why some restaurants do add a service charge onto a bill, especially for larger parties, which is because most of them completely forget to leave one for their waiter when left to their own devices, especially after a few bottles of wine!
    And (good) waiters do deserve it, believe me.

    Anyway, comparing this to IM, which is still a "service industry" of sorts - if you are honest, genuinely have the best interests of your customers at heart, and will go the extra mile to provide good service and resolve problems, then you will see an increase in "gratuities" -whether that be in the form of increased sales, sign ups, thanks in a forum, or whatever other measure you want to apply.

    And those that are not really interested in their customers, and show this through the lack of service they provide - whether that be internet marketers, or McDonald's employees - don't deserve rewards at all!
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    • Profile picture of the author waterotter
      McDonalds gets free advertising on the Warrior Forum!
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      • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
        Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

        McDonalds gets free advertising on the Warrior Forum!
        Man, they sure do need it, too!

        We're gonna push them over the top and into the black.

        Yay!


        Ken
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        • Profile picture of the author waterotter
          Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

          Man, they sure do need it, too!

          We're gonna push them over the top and into the black.

          Yay!


          Ken
          Too funny, LMAO.
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            This post is interesting to me, having been a restaurant manager for 10 years, and working in the restaurant industry for 15 years,
            I started as a dishwasher, ended up with a degree in Culinary Arts and was the Chef de Grande Manger at a high rated country club.
            I never worked in a kitchen where the chef's got a cut of the tips.
            When I was at the country club we did get Christmas bonuses.
            The members would donate the $ and the board of directors decided who got how much. It was pretty standard for the waiters and waitresses to get $50.
            It was also pretty standard for myself and the executive chef to get around $2,000, this was almost 30 years ago by the way.
            When I go out to eat though, I tip on the service and the food.
            Also unless I already know, I'll ask if the cooks get a % of the tip.
            If not I'll tip the cook separately.
            Years ago I ate at a small restaurant where the waitress seemed to do everything she could to screw up the dining experience.
            Despite her I got a fantastic meal. When I was ready to leave I 'demanded' to see the cook. When he can out I gave him a tip, thanked him for the great meal, paid my bill and left, with the waitress standing there trying to figure out what just happened.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

              I started as a dishwasher, ended up with a degree in Culinary Arts and was the Chef de Grande Manger at a high rated country club.
              I never worked in a kitchen where the chef's got a cut of the tips.
              When I was at the country club we did get Christmas bonuses.
              The members would donate the $ and the board of directors decided who got how much. It was pretty standard for the waiters and waitresses to get $50.
              It was also pretty standard for myself and the executive chef to get around $2,000, this was almost 30 years ago by the way.
              When I go out to eat though, I tip on the service and the food.
              Also unless I already know, I'll ask if the cooks get a % of the tip.
              If not I'll tip the cook separately.
              Years ago I ate at a small restaurant where the waitress seemed to do everything she could to screw up the dining experience.
              Despite her I got a fantastic meal. When I was ready to leave I 'demanded' to see the cook. When he can out I gave him a tip, thanked him for the great meal, paid my bill and left, with the waitress standing there trying to figure out what just happened.
              Yeaah, I'm sure the cooks are shortchanged ALL THE TIME. The club probably realized that. $50 is a GOOD amount if they are paid decently AND get to keep the tips. $2000 probably goes a long way towards equalizing things a bit. Of course, a lot of COOKS are bad TOO. I generally order well done, because other meat is often not cooked right. And I STILL CRINGE whenever I see a THICK burger! WHY!?!?? Because a lot of cooks DON'T understand the correlation between heat and time. They figure that they can keep the heat the same, or even turn it up, and they manage to burn the outside and maybe even leave the inside COLD! They should turn DOWN the heat and cook it LONGER. Of course, with thinner burgers there is less of a concern. A FEW restaurants have cooks that DO understand it, and I order things medium well and they turn out nice.

              Did you know they actually have DISCLAIMERS in MA!?!? Restaurants warn that the meat might not be cooked right and can lead to disease. HECK, 500 ****MILLION**** eggs were recently recalled for salmonella! GRANTED that wasn't because of cooks, but it WAS due to the same lack of care.

              Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                Yeaah, I'm sure the cooks are shortchanged ALL THE TIME. The club probably realized that. $50 is a GOOD amount if they are paid decently AND get to keep the tips. $2000 probably goes a long way towards equalizing things a bit. Of course, a lot of COOKS are bad TOO. I generally order well done, because other meat is often not cooked right. And I STILL CRINGE whenever I see a THICK burger! WHY!?!?? Because a lot of cooks DON'T understand the correlation between heat and time. They figure that they can keep the heat the same, or even turn it up, and they manage to burn the outside and maybe even leave the inside COLD! They should turn DOWN the heat and cook it LONGER. Of course, with thinner burgers there is less of a concern. A FEW restaurants have cooks that DO understand it, and I order things medium well and they turn out nice.

                Did you know they actually have DISCLAIMERS in MA!?!? Restaurants warn that the meat might not be cooked right and can lead to disease. HECK, 500 ****MILLION**** eggs were recently recalled for salmonella! GRANTED that wasn't because of cooks, but it WAS due to the same lack of care.

                Steve
                It the club the wait staff made a little started at a little more then min. wage and didn't get tipped by the members
                I'm funny with beef. I still eat raw hamburger with salt, pepper, and vinegar. I'll take a piece of raw steak and put salt on it and eat it. But if you put the beef to fire, I want it well done, not medium well, but well.
                I look at it as eating beef dead or alive.
                I don't think you can really teach a person to cook.
                Yes you can teach them recipes and technique, but true cooking is an art.
                You either have it or you don't.
                At the club we did as many as 4 small banquets a day plus an Ala Carte dinner menu. On Fri. or Sat. it wasn't uncommon to do a 350 people dinner banquet, 150 dinners, plus a couple 30 people lunch banquets.
                For a staff we had the exec. chef, 1 banquet chef, a line cook, I did everything cold, and 1 day and 1 night dishwasher.
                Keep in mind that every meal had to taste like that was the only meal we made. Plus nothing was ever simple and practically everything was made from scratch.
                For one banquet at the end on member, guest weekend I had to make 350 individual Baked Alaskans plus 5 bigger ones for display and back up. This was during July. Try making Meringue in 90+ degree heat and hi humidity
                That was all in addition to the regular desserts I made for ala carte, and all the cold appetizers, salads, garnishes, etc.
                Preparing food for that many people and having each meal taste like it was the best they ever had is something that can't be taught.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by bevasllanaj View Post

      However, in the UK, I understand why some restaurants do add a service charge onto a bill, especially for larger parties, which is because most of them completely forget to leave one for their waiter when left to their own devices, especially after a few bottles of wine!
      And (good) waiters do deserve it, believe me.
      Well, Ken, Kim, and I, are in the US, whatever difference THAT may make. At least one restaurant in the US had people JAILED for not paying a "tip". And you are apparently right about big parties. So I have been TOLD. I have been in parties consisting of DOZENS of people, and they make a point to pay the tip! HECK, I once went to a group that basically rented a room, in a restaraunt every week. They covered EVERYTHING, so all people attending got free food. The waiters and waitresses seemed happy, etc...

      Then again, some waiters and waitresses ARE bad about big parties. HECK, I was in one party of about 20 earlier this month and ordered a dish. I was HUNGRY! They had NO pictures, etc... It was an INDIAN place and though they "described" things in "english", it required a knowledge of indian cuisine, terms, and culture, that I certainly didn't have. I was kind of lucky that there were a lot of indians in the group so I could ask.

      I was the ONLY one ordering a MEAL to that point! Do you know what happened? They figured if it got to the TABLE, it would be OK. The OTHERS shared it among themselves, as an appetizer. I got not so much as a nibble, glance, or sniff. They REORDERED and, MUCH LATER, I got the dish! Luckily, I liked it. If I didn't, I probably would have talked to the manager, and asked to talk to the owner, and I would have said I was hungry and would go elsewhere to eat and just LEAVE! I would have tried to be nice to my paarty, and very harsh to the restaurant, and let both sides know how I felt. AND, frankly, I never want to be there again.

      If I had been the head of that party, I would have been VERY upset, and paid less of a tip on the ENTIRE bill. That bill was probably well into the hundreds. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it were about $600USD! A 20% tip on that would be $120! I probably would have lowered it to $90, just for that fiasco! AND, if the tip were that high, I would have let them know that it was lower than it could have been.

      And YEAH, GOOD waiters and waitresses deserve it. Giving it to everyone else CHEAPENS the idea.

      So who knows, maybe the idea of big parties not paying tips is some sort of myth. I never saw it.

      steve
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      • Profile picture of the author waterotter
        Heck, here in Canada, if people don't get good service, they leave a penny. That about sums it up!
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        • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
          Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

          Heck, here in Canada, if people don't get good service, they leave a penny. That about sums it up!
          Bad service kind of sticks in the memory, doesn't it. Why not just apply IM exptertise to writing and strategically planting scathing reviews all over the net? Someone on the warrior forum (not me) does that to great effect.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    ThomM,

    I bet you it is maybe 30% art with the rest effort and knowledge. My contention is that most don't have the effort or knowledge. Then again, EFFORT ALONE would generally LEAD to knowledge ANYWAY! As the old saying goes, translated from german, since it is closer... "Practice(effort) makes the master(artist, expert, or knowledgeable person)". The German is "Ubung macht den meister." which literally means "Practice makes the master". So I certainly understand how you have to start things at different times to serve them together, etc...

    But YEAH, I know how the environment can play tricks with things like Meringue. It ALSO makes it harder to keep them fresh which means timing has to be more precise. ANOTHER thing that isn't obvious until the total preparation time takes too long. HECK, I even wonder what happens if a cook ends up burning a piece of a meal or something. It could make things take longer, etc... In some cases the timing could just be totally off.

    HEY, ever see the "american pie wedding"? The main turning point of the movie, where the thing becomes a DISASTER, and then becomes a success, is basically due to SCHEDULING! The cake, and flowers, and perhaps other things, are destroyed, and people complain. For the flowers she talks about hiring 4 people to help out over 2 days, etc... and that was just for FLOWERS! BECAUSE they had to be done so far in advance, they had to be cooled, and that led to their disaster.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      You can teach people to function in a kitchen.
      But the truly good cook isn't made, they're born
      For example, I've never used a timer while baking, or cooking anything else for that matter. It wasn't uncommon for me to have 5 or 6 cakes in different ovens and I'd be making something else like a 5 gal. batch of chocolate moose while they where baking.
      Another thing about working in a kitchen like the club's was the hours you put in. You didn't produce that much food in an 8 hour day. You also didn't do it working a 5 day week. Organization and planning where the keys as well as having a natural ability to cook. I would start my days at 7 am. Usually by midnight I was calling it a day. By then I had done any prep I could for the next day and had started living that day in my mind. By the time I came to work the next morning I had gone over everything I needed to do that day so many times that I never had to think about what needed to be done next.
      Also if something happens, you need to be able to adapt immediately. Very rare was the times you had to actually stop and think about what you had to do. You had to always be prepared for things you didn't expect to happen.
      That was probably the hardest and most stressful job I ever had.
      But if it didn't destroy me physically (candidate for artificial knee in my mid 30's, start of my back problems) I'd still be there, it is one of only 3 occupations I've had that I loved passionately and was damn good at.

      Anyways I told you that to get to this point
      True you need effort and knowledge which you pick up as you go along.
      But if you aren't born with the abilities, love, and passion, you won't make it long enough to gain the knowledge no matter what the effort.
      Signature

      Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
      Getting old ain't for sissy's
      As you are I was, as I am you will be
      You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Ken,

    The stupid comment was made by others, so I don't know the reasoning.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author chriscubos
    We call it trash talk in some games. Talk is cheap. He might just be trying to intimidate the not-so-successful IM.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Interestingly enough ,there was a Modern Marvels show on fast food last night on the History channel. I haven't looked,but it might be on their website.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary Pettit
    The funny thing about McDonald's being dissed, whether as a place of employment or as a business at large, is that Ray Kroc was one of the greatest emtrepreneurs of all time. His "franchise system"--in which teenagers can be instructed to do the same thing, every time, in exactly the right way (so they are replicable, replaceable, and it doesn't matter what individual is doing any particular task)--is the foundation of an entire industry of franchises. Continuous improvement also comes from Kroc's original business plan.
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  • Profile picture of the author xTrav
    Banned
    The problem with most restaurant customers is that they think they need to be treated like royalty or something. It's pathetic. It is not the servers fault that he/she has 7 other tables to serve instead of never letting your glass get below half full. The truth is that you are a bad customer. Look you old geezer, the young cute waitress does not think you are attractive. She only smiles and laughs at your lame jokes because it is her job. Let her do her job and serve you food and drinks. That is all you can expect. If the cooks **** up an order or take a long time to get the plate out to you it is not the waitress fault. Get real.
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  • Profile picture of the author SDenham
    You know what? If I am having a slow month, or find a IM product that I want and can't afford yet, I'm not above taking a low paying job temporarily.

    I'm really fortunate in the employment arena, both of my jobs pay well, and I work for close friends, but not too long ago, I would have been thrilled to death to have a minimum wage job so I could renew my domain name that I spent so much time working on before my divorce.

    A little perspective never hurt anybody.
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