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We Should Establish a Penalty for...

by Rikki_Fawkes
82 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
    • |
... the next 100 instances of posts containing "there" when "their" or "they're" should be used instead!

I wonder just how much post credibility, website credibility and article quality would all improve if we quit misusing these two words. I have seen these mistakes more times today for some reason than ever before - on Warrior Forum alone.

So what will it be? A hefty fine? Or bodily punishment? You vote!

And yes, this is a money-making thread. If you choose "hefty fine," the money goes to anyone who catches the poster - in other words, a bounty. And I wouldn't complain about taking a small 10% cut myself, thank you very much.
#establish #penalty
  • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
    Your right about this. Thanks alot.
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    • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
      Originally Posted by mojojuju View Post

      Your right about this. Thanks alot.

      I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to point out that you're using the wrong form of you're/your in a thread complaining about the usage of their/there/they're

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      • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
        [QUOTE=mr2monster;2722622]I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to point out that you're using the wrong form of you're/your in a thread complaining about the usage of their/there/they're

        [/QUOTE

        I was going to say that to, but thier is no way of knowing weather the mistake was intenshunal sence so many peepul took the opurtoonity to joke about this very seerius subjict. Move to strike that outburst from the record yore oner.

        Seriously though, aside from the apostrophes which spell check doesn't catch, where is the excuse for rampant and obvious spelling mistakes on a forum that even corrects it for you, if you aren't too lazy to right click, and maybe improve your spelling?

        I make mistakes and I'm not that great a speller, but spell checks have improved me over time. Us old timers remember having to haul out the dictionary (printed on a substance called paper, made from wood pulp) when we weren't sure of our spelling, and even then you had to know you might have made a mistake-the paper didn't underline it in red-the teachers in school did that later, and you got marked down for it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

          I was going to say that to, but thier is no way of knowing weather the mistake was intenshunal sence so many peepul took the opurtoonity to joke about this very seerius subjict. Move to strike that outburst from the record yore oner.

          Seriously though, aside from the apostrophes which spell check doesn't catch, where is the excuse for rampant and obvious spelling mistakes on a forum that even corrects it for you, if you aren't too lazy to right click, and maybe improve your spelling?

          I make mistakes and I'm not that great a speller, but spell checks have improved me over time. Us old timers remember having to haul out the dictionary (printed on a substance called paper, made from wood pulp) when we weren't sure of our spelling, and even then you had to know you might have made a mistake-the paper didn't underline it in red-the teachers in school did that later, and you got marked down for it.
          Just wanted to point out the Warrior Forum itself does not have this functionality. It is either your browser (Firefox has it, for example), or you have the WF toolbar installed (if I remember correctly, this is one of its features).

          ~Michael
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          • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
            Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

            Just wanted to point out the Warrior Forum itself does not have this functionality. It is either your browser (Firefox has it, for example), or you have the WF toolbar installed (if I remember correctly, this is one of its features).

            ~Michael
            I stand corrected. I'm sorry to have been such a big meanie, especially since my spelling, as I said, though improving all the time, isn't that great. You can imagine how horrible it was before spell checkers became available. But I managed not to embarrass myself too badly by using the dictionary quite often.
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  • Profile picture of the author IndigoJack
    As a start, I think all pedants should be shot.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I think the bigger question is - why does it bother you? You know what they mean no matter which spelling they use - and we have people from all over the world so can't expect perfect english from everyone.

      There's no money to be made in acting as a spelling or grammar cop
      Now if they are wrong or don't make sense at all - that's a different thing altogether.

      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author Rikki_Fawkes
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I think the bigger question is - why does it bother you? You know what they mean no matter which spelling they use - and we have people from all over the world so can't expect perfect english from everyone.

        There's no money to be made in acting as a spelling or grammar cop
        Now if they are wrong or don't make sense at all - that's a different thing altogether.

        kay
        Well, I guess it doesn't bother a lot of people. But for some reason, it DOES bother me. Perhaps because it just looks lazy. And if they're foreign - then absolutely; we can cut 'em a break. But for the Americans.... haha.
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        • Profile picture of the author Christian Sawyer
          Originally Posted by Rikki_Fawkes View Post

          Well, I guess it doesn't bother a lot of people. But for some reason, it DOES bother me. Perhaps because it just looks lazy. And if they're foreign - then absolutely; we can cut 'em a break. But for the Americans.... haha.
          Completely agree. We all make mistakes, but when it comes a constant mistake that someone makes, the person really loses credibility in my eyes.

          -Christian
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Rikki_Fawkes View Post

          Well, I guess it doesn't bother a lot of people. But for some reason, it DOES bother me. Perhaps because it just looks lazy. And if they're foreign - then absolutely; we can cut 'em a break. But for the Americans.... haha.
          Hi Rikki...what cha smokin' today?

          Know what bothers me? It bothers me that people keep coming into the forum expecting dissertation quality chat. If I have to edit my work just to make a quick comment in a stinking forum post, I think that maybe I'll just go write an article instead of chatting. A lot of people in here have been here a long time and we know each other. We don't have to worry about occasional misspellings or ww errors (I assume you know from your AP style-book what a ww error is). We also forgive logical error, yet we love to bicker about that one.

          Know what else bothers me? People who insist that we are not allowed to make errors in their forum - yet make their own.

          I wonder just how much post credibility, website credibility and article quality would all improve if we quit misusing these two words.
          Now I'm sure that your high school taught you that you don't need a comma before an "and" in a series - but they taught ya wrong. By not inserting a comma before the and in a series you set up an unbalanced equivalency....and while that doesn't much matter in shorter constructions, in longer more sinuous constructions you can completely change the meaning of the statement.

          Strunk and White make a grammar and punctuation guide that is preferred by many of the Ivy League Colleges -- so you won't make those elementary level mistakes that don't look so keen with a profile that claims you a "writing coach".

          BTW - 10% for what? You the new janitor down here in the OT? What happened to Alex? Did he fall in that vat of holy beer again? Alex never asked for 10%. He just wanted a free drink now and again.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ashley Gable
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            Now I'm sure that your high school taught you that you don't need a comma before an "and" in a series - but they taught ya wrong. By not inserting a comma before the and in a series you set up an unbalanced equivalency....and while that doesn't much matter in shorter constructions, in longer more sinuous constructions you can completely change the meaning of the statement.
            Actually, I think the comma before "and" is a regional thing. I was born in Britain and I would not put a comma before it, yet my brother who was born here, does. I even talked to his English teacher about this and she agreed. Its the same as "realize" and "realise".

            Now, I dont understand all that equivalency stuff, but unless you are writing articles/copy to sell a product to an English teacher, I dont think it presents a problem at all.

            With the internet taking people from all over the world and making them neighbours there are bound to be "errors" that arent errors at all.
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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              Originally Posted by AshleyAA View Post

              Actually, I think the comma before "and" is a regional thing. I was born in Britain and I would not put a comma before it, yet my brother who was born here, does. I even talked to his English teacher about this and she agreed. Its the same as "realize" and "realise".

              Now, I dont understand all that equivalency stuff, but unless you are writing articles/copy to sell a product to an English teacher, I dont think it presents a problem at all.

              With the internet taking people from all over the world and making them neighbours there are bound to be "errors" that arent errors at all.
              Maybe considering the breadth of this forum I need to start specifying "American English":rolleyes: Actually, over here across the pond from you correct standard requires a comma before the "and" in a series.

              The equivalency -- if two items appear at either side of an "and", they are subconsciously assumed to be associated to each other in some way shape or fashion that puts them in equal importance:
              apples and oranges. They are of the same group.

              When you get a series: apples, oranges, and pears - the comma keeps them equivalently associated. Subconsciously, if we see: apples, oranges and pears - our minds think of the two bound by "and" as more closely associated than the other set off by a comma.

              This may seem a moot point at this level but when you get to longer constructions, that extra comma is vital:
              the guilty and innocent, the corrupt and insane and the noble.
              This construction gives a misleading connection to the corrupt and insane, and the noble - the noble not belonging to the previous grouping, but was relevant in the series if you were to read the missing context.

              I realize that's not the best example, but it's the best I can do in the middle of the night without going back into some of my reference texts and to tell the truth - I don't feel like it. The info is on the table here though so it can be looked up by anyone who gets a tweak to do so.

              Some American reference books actually get this one wrong, and I presume that is because they are using the rule descriptively instead of proscriptively, as they should. We can blame that on commercial writing actually -- looks like sales people have been hammering the snot out of English over here even before we started to *******ize it in online forums like a pack of ogres.
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              • Profile picture of the author Dan_Excel
                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                Maybe considering the breadth of this forum I need to start specifying "American English":rolleyes: Actually, over here across the pond from you correct standard requires a comma before the "and" in a series.

                The equivalency -- if two items appear at either side of an "and", they are subconsciously assumed to be associated to each other in some way shape or fashion that puts them in equal importance:
                apples and oranges. They are of the same group.

                When you get a series: apples, oranges, and pears - the comma keeps them equivalently associated. Subconsciously, if we see: apples, oranges and pears - our minds think of the two bound by "and" as more closely associated than the other set off by a comma.

                This may seem a moot point at this level but when you get to longer constructions, that extra comma is vital:
                the guilty and innocent, the corrupt and insane and the noble.
                This construction gives a misleading connection to the corrupt and insane, and the noble - the noble not belonging to the previous grouping, but was relevant in the series if you were to read the missing context.

                I realize that's not the best example, but it's the best I can do in the middle of the night without going back into some of my reference texts and to tell the truth - I don't feel like it. The info is on the table here though so it can be looked up by anyone who gets a tweak to do so.

                Some American reference books actually get this one wrong, and I presume that is because they are using the rule descriptively instead of proscriptively, as they should. We can blame that on commercial writing actually -- looks like sales people have been hammering the snot out of English over here even before we started to *******ize it in online forums like a pack of ogres.
                " people have been hammering the snot out of English over here even before we started to *******ize it in online forums like a pack of ogres."

                Didn't even know people like you still existed, I'm thoroughly convinced now on why I find this type of communication repulsive.
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                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                  Originally Posted by Dan_Excel View Post

                  " people have been hammering the snot out of English over here even before we started to *******ize it in online forums like a pack of ogres."

                  Didn't even know people like you still existed, I'm thoroughly convinced now on why I find this type of communication repulsive.
                  LMAO -- That's what a degree in linguistics does to people -- I can tell you the mechanics of just about anything to do with language.............and will do so to make a point.

                  But if you expect perfection out of me in a forum, you have a long wait. If I misspell in here, use a wrong word, or anything else that doesn't fall into the list of "fine writing" in this place I just consider it tough noogies.

                  When I'm in here, I'm not selling, I'm either just yacking with the people I know or learning something. It becomes a sickness if you have to watch everything you do just to chat informally.

                  Actually - I don't give a rip what people do linguistically in chat like a forum. It still goes to truth that the lit you use to sell your stuff needs to be flawless, but language nazis need to get a grip. Some of those little unedited remarks in a post can reveal some fun stuff now and again. AND ---- Nobody's business is gonna fail because they typed a wrong word in a forum. People can see who is stupid and who's just not editing. good grief.
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              • Profile picture of the author Ashley Gable
                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                Maybe considering the breadth of this forum I need to start specifying "American English":rolleyes: Actually, over here across the pond from you correct standard requires a comma before the "and" in a series.

                The equivalency -- if two items appear at either side of an "and", they are subconsciously assumed to be associated to each other in some way shape or fashion that puts them in equal importance:
                apples and oranges. They are of the same group.

                When you get a series: apples, oranges, and pears - the comma keeps them equivalently associated. Subconsciously, if we see: apples, oranges and pears - our minds think of the two bound by "and" as more closely associated than the other set off by a comma.

                This may seem a moot point at this level but when you get to longer constructions, that extra comma is vital:
                the guilty and innocent, the corrupt and insane and the noble.
                This construction gives a misleading connection to the corrupt and insane, and the noble - the noble not belonging to the previous grouping, but was relevant in the series if you were to read the missing context.

                I realize that's not the best example, but it's the best I can do in the middle of the night without going back into some of my reference texts and to tell the truth - I don't feel like it. The info is on the table here though so it can be looked up by anyone who gets a tweak to do so.

                Some American reference books actually get this one wrong, and I presume that is because they are using the rule descriptively instead of proscriptively, as they should. We can blame that on commercial writing actually -- looks like sales people have been hammering the snot out of English over here even before we started to *******ize it in online forums like a pack of ogres.
                That does make sense and I can see why it would be used.

                But I think just like spelling in high school, my English teacher never marked me down for "misspellings" that were only because of my parents teaching me it.

                Dont get me wrong, I am not trying to call you out, I know as much about grammar as I do php - nothing. But wouldn't the below sentence you wrote require a comma after the "you"?

                Actually, over here across the pond from you correct standard requires a comma before the "and" in a series.
                Anyways all besides the point. A writer I will never be for the exact reason this thread made clear

                Ashley
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                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                  Originally Posted by AshleyAA View Post

                  That does make sense and I can see why it would be used.

                  But I think just like spelling in high school, my English teacher never marked me down for "misspellings" that were only because of my parents teaching me it.

                  Dont get me wrong, I am not trying to call you out, I know as much about grammar as I do php - nothing. But wouldn't the below sentence you wrote require a comma after the "you"?


                  Anyways all besides the point. A writer I will never be for the exact reason this thread made clear

                  Ashley
                  Yes, it would. And if I really had given a rip - I would have gone back and edited my work. So you may arrest me now.

                  My entire point in this thread was that everyone is going to make mistakes in a forum unless they go through and edit their posts.........MY first post was intended to stifle another Language Nazi. Language perfectionism is so out of touch it's crazy. Perfection has it's place in literature - but a forum conversation board isn't it.

                  By calling the OP out on the serial comma mistake I was just pointing out that if you are going to trip on something, you need to be perfect --- I was not worried about my own perfection.

                  I actually think it would be spooky to see people conversing in a forum and never make mistakes. Who the hell does that in conversation?
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                  • Profile picture of the author Ashley Gable
                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                    Yes, it would. And if I really had given a rip - I would have gone back and edited my work. So you may arrest me now.

                    My entire point in this thread was that everyone is going to make mistakes in a forum unless they go through and edit their posts.........MY first post was intended to stifle another Language Nazi. Language perfectionism is so out of touch it's crazy. Perfection has it's place in literature - but a forum conversation board isn't it.

                    By calling the OP out on the serial comma mistake I was just pointing out that if you are going to trip on something, you need to be perfect --- I was not worried about my own perfection.

                    I actually think it would be spooky to see people conversing in a forum and never make mistakes. Who the hell does that in conversation?
                    Agreed. Although I think improper comma usage is a little different to the OP's original example. But then again I don't have a degree in Linguistics!

                    And yes, if I were to ever start a thread about improper grammar or spelling I would probably go over that original post with a fine tooth comb
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                  • Profile picture of the author Rikki_Fawkes
                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                    Yes, it would. And if I really had given a rip - I would have gone back and edited my work. So you may arrest me now.

                    My entire point in this thread was that everyone is going to make mistakes in a forum unless they go through and edit their posts.........MY first post was intended to stifle another Language Nazi. Language perfectionism is so out of touch it's crazy. Perfection has it's place in literature - but a forum conversation board isn't it.

                    By calling the OP out on the serial comma mistake I was just pointing out that if you are going to trip on something, you need to be perfect --- I was not worried about my own perfection.

                    I actually think it would be spooky to see people conversing in a forum and never make mistakes. Who the hell does that in conversation?
                    And I think we've well established that the serial comma is now considered a personal, client, need or style preference. My usage - or lack of usage - in this case is not incorrect.

                    And I see no one has yet pointed out the mistake I intentionally included in the first post. I figured someone certainly would have noticed it by now (and judging from some of the threads, no one's too shy to mention it if they did).

                    So, what was supposed to be a funny thread turned into a rather exhausting one. Really, guys, that wasn't the point.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                      Originally Posted by Rikki_Fawkes View Post

                      And I think we've well established that the serial comma is now considered a personal, client, need or style preference. My usage - or lack of usage - in this case is not incorrect.

                      And I see no one has yet pointed out the mistake I intentionally included in the first post. I figured someone certainly would have noticed it by now (and judging from some of the threads, no one's too shy to mention it if they did).

                      So, what was supposed to be a funny thread turned into a rather exhausting one. Really, guys, that wasn't the point.
                      Yeah, it can get like that here in the Off Topic section.

                      As per your mistake, I think I found two.

                      1. A lack of a comma before 'when'.

                      2. And a missing 'the' before Warrior Forum.

                      Do I win?

                      Surely, their must be a prize.

                      All the best,
                      Michael
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                      • Profile picture of the author Rikki_Fawkes
                        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

                        Yeah, it can get like that here in the Off Topic section.

                        As per your mistake, I think I found two.

                        1. A lack of a comma before 'when'.

                        2. And a missing 'the' before Warrior Forum.

                        Do I win?

                        Surely, their must be a prize.

                        All the best,
                        Michael
                        Actually, there's still one more. And since I doubt anyone's going to guess, I'll say what it is:

                        Original quote:

                        "...would all improve if we quit misusing these two words." There are three words in question: There, they're and their.

                        As far as what you found:

                        1. I've read mixed instructions on comma usage before the word "when." I suppose I probably should have used one in that post.

                        2. Actually, I was referring to "Warrior Forum" as an entire entity. Kind of like how people refer to bands by putting an assumed "The" in front when there's no "The" in the name at all. I guess I never call it "The Warrior Forum." I just say "Today on Warrior Forum."

                        Am I wrong? Does everyone else call it The Warrior Forum? (Or WarriorForum, for those who are really going to get technical)

                        And unfortunately, "their" is no prize, so I figured I'd just reveal my mistake (above) and hope everyone either gets a laugh or moves on, haha.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by AshleyAA View Post

              Actually, I think the comma before "and" is a regional thing. I was born in Britain and I would not put a comma before it, yet my brother who was born here, does. I even talked to his English teacher about this and she agreed. Its the same as "realize" and "realise".

              Now, I dont understand all that equivalency stuff, but unless you are writing articles/copy to sell a product to an English teacher, I dont think it presents a problem at all.

              With the internet taking people from all over the world and making them neighbours there are bound to be "errors" that arent errors at all.
              Well, I use it to clarify meaning!

              If I were to say "rice and beans", you know I am talking about a dish that happens to be named that because it has those two items.

              If I were to say "rice, and beans", you know I am talking about the two items.

              Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan_Excel
            WOW!!! That is worth a beer or 20% at least.
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            • Profile picture of the author Rikki_Fawkes
              Originally Posted by Dan_Excel View Post

              WOW!!! That is worth a beer or 20% at least.


              How does four of those sound? Hope you like the Bahamian brew :p
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          • Profile picture of the author MWZ81
            If it is a sales letter then it should be proof read and any errors should be corrected.

            If it is a simple forum post, who really cares? Almost (notice I said "ALMOST") every person who posted on this thread, including the OP has not demonstrated perfect grammar.

            The thing that gets me is the people who insult people for a spelling or grammar error. I've seen it for YEARS all over the internet. From games to forums... it is like a last resort to feel more superior to someone because of a silly spelling/grammar error. It's something that will never stop.

            How many of you speak and write perfect English all day every day? If your not a master of the English language and you complain about simple grammar errors then YOU should be fined!

            The world revolves around the sun, not you! :p
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan_Excel
              The wife; she is the laziest, most unorganized person I have ever met (never trust a nice ass and cute face). However, she will make a fuss about any grammatical error. Maybe it's because she is the product of a cult like religion or she is just very annoying. It could not possibly make her feel superior with all of that baggage?
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          • Profile picture of the author Rikki_Fawkes
            Oy. I go to bed for three hours and look what happens...

            About the Commas

            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            Now I'm sure that your high school taught you that you don't need a comma before an "and" in a series - but they taught ya wrong. By not inserting a comma before the and in a series you set up an unbalanced equivalency....and while that doesn't much matter in shorter constructions, in longer more sinuous constructions you can completely change the meaning of the statement.
            Believe it or not, my "high school" taught me correctly - and by correctly, I mean by your standards. I was taught to use the serial comma.

            It wasn't until I began writing for online clients that I had to change this style. And it took me forever to get used to it. My clients demanded I drop the serial comma, period.

            This was somewhat frustrating to me, as these are the same clients who required me to read The Elements of Style, which, of course, recommends the serial comma. I took issue with this, but you know what they say about the client being right...

            But from then on, I have not used the serial comma.


            Comma Usage in Reference to My "Writing Coach" Designation


            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            Strunk and White make a grammar and punctuation guide that is preferred by many of the Ivy League Colleges -- so you won't make those elementary level mistakes that don't look so keen with a profile that claims you a "writing coach".
            I wouldn't want my customers seeing me use commas this way, you say? Sorry - but I do, especially since the very clients I work for are the ones I teach my members to work for. If I can't follow their rules, that would give the opposite effect of what I want.

            And believe it or not, my work as a writing coach often has very little to do with grammar. It entails getting members set up with writing clients, helping them submit their first articles, teaching them basic SEO and preferred article structure, etc. If they need grammar help (and undoubtedly, some do) I give it to them. But that's hardly the bulk of it.
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            Hi Rikki...what cha smokin' today?

            Know what bothers me? It bothers me that people keep coming into the forum expecting dissertation quality chat. If I have to edit my work just to make a quick comment in a stinking forum post, I think that maybe I'll just go write an article instead of chatting. A lot of people in here have been here a long time and we know each other. We don't have to worry about occasional misspellings or ww errors (I assume you know from your AP style-book what a ww error is). We also forgive logical error, yet we love to bicker about that one.

            Know what else bothers me? People who insist that we are not allowed to make errors in their forum - yet make their own.

            Now I'm sure that your high school taught you that you don't need a comma before an "and" in a series - but they taught ya wrong. By not inserting a comma before the and in a series you set up an unbalanced equivalency....and while that doesn't much matter in shorter constructions, in longer more sinuous constructions you can completely change the meaning of the statement.

            Strunk and White make a grammar and punctuation guide that is preferred by many of the Ivy League Colleges -- so you won't make those elementary level mistakes that don't look so keen with a profile that claims you a "writing coach".

            BTW - 10% for what? You the new janitor down here in the OT? What happened to Alex? Did he fall in that vat of holy beer again? Alex never asked for 10%. He just wanted a free drink now and again.
            Hey Sal,

            The last comma, sometimes called an Oxford comma, is not a wide-ranging, absolute rule. However, IF you are using Strunk and White, then you are correct, but who gives a rat's behind if it's "preferred by many of the Ivy League colleges"? Seriously. That's a common debate tactic known as "arguing from authority", but it doesn't hold water here.

            Anyway, it's up to each author if they want to use it, with two caveats:

            1. They use their format consistently, or...

            2. They follow what THEIR preferred style guide suggests.

            There are many other style guides out there, and they are handy resources, but if a person isn't using Strunk and White, then that last comma may not be required.

            To be fair, I used to use it all the time, but have since discontinued doing so because of too many complaints from clients. As it doesn't really matter, I chose to drop it.

            All the best,
            Michael
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            • Profile picture of the author Rikki_Fawkes
              Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

              Hey Sal,

              The last comma, sometimes called an Oxford comma, is not a wide-ranging, absolute rule. However, IF you are using Strunk and White, then you are correct, but who gives a rat's behind if it's "preferred by many of the Ivy League colleges"? Seriously. That's a common debate tactic known as "arguing from authority", but it doesn't hold water here.

              Anyway, it's up to each author if they want to use it, with two caveats:

              1. They use their format consistently, or...

              2. They follow what THEIR preferred style guide suggests.

              There are many other style guides out there, and they are handy resources, but if a person isn't using Strunk and White, then that last comma may not be required.

              To be fair, I used to use it all the time, but have since discontinued doing so because of too many complaints from clients. As it doesn't really matter, I chose to drop it.

              All the best,
              Michael

              Exactly! I dropped it due to client preference. And quite honestly, I think the serial comma (from what I've seen, mind you - I'm not making a blanket statement here) is losing its popularity.
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          • Profile picture of the author John Henderson
            [DELETED]
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            • Profile picture of the author Rikki_Fawkes
              Originally Posted by John Henderson View Post

              :rolleyes:
              His case in point - perhaps he did that on purpose? :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I think the bigger question is - why does it bother you?
        Maybe it doesn't? It's a great way to market a writing service. Everyone reacts to threads like this; we all love a good argument. The title helps too - it doesn't really say what the thread is about so people will click.

        Creating an argument that highlights you are very particular about your grammar has to be good for reputation building when you're a writer.

        That's probably why this thread is fine in the marketing section of the forum. It's a great example of forum marketing.

        :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Alfred Shelver
    If it is there mistake, their the ones who should rightfully pay. They're is definitely a need from many of us to re-look at our English
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    • Profile picture of the author DavidMaddux
      Originally Posted by Cathy Shelver View Post

      If it is there mistake, their the ones who should rightfully pay. They're is definitely a need from many of us to re-look at our English


      And they're you have it!

      Best wishes.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Cathy Shelver View Post

      If it is there mistake, their the ones who should rightfully pay. They're is definitely a need from many of us to re-look at our English
      I realize that it is a joke, but Rikki STILL thanked it!?!?!?
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      • Profile picture of the author Rikki_Fawkes
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        I realize that it is a joke, but Rikki STILL thanked it!?!?!?
        Should I thank you for pointing that out? Because few other posters in this thread seem to have taken it as such, even though it should have obviously been seen that way.
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  • Profile picture of the author Will Compton
    Originally Posted by Rikki_Fawkes View Post

    ... the next 100 instances of posts containing "there" when "their" or "they're" should be used instead!

    So what will it be? A hefty fine? Or bodily punishment? You vote!
    Grammar nazi! I vow eternal resistance to every form of tyranny over the minds of men. I'm not your slave lady...

    ...so their.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      Rikki,

      I can appreciate your sentiment but... you will have to get in line behind the mattress police. I think they're onto me. I ripped the tag off when I moved.


      Joe
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  • Profile picture of the author Neesher.com
    can we add "alot" to the penalty list?
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    • Profile picture of the author jasonboom
      Originally Posted by Neesher.com View Post

      can we add "alot" to the penalty list?
      Oh, man. That reminds me of this...Hyperbole and a Half: The Alot is Better Than You at Everything
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      • Profile picture of the author aandersen
        Originally Posted by jasonboom View Post

        Thanks alot for this!

        I haven't laughed that hard in a loooooong time.

        good share!
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Most warrior post 100 words per minute and no speell check! Kidding of course
          Actually, I am fast on the keyboard - I type a post as I'm thinking about it and then look and realize my mind got ahead of my fingers and I skipped a whole word.

          Mattress police When I was a kid I cut the tag off a bed pillow and my mother had a fit because SHE thought it was against the law. As she pointed out to me it said "do not remove this tag under penalty of law". My mother is a literal being.

          kay
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      • Profile picture of the author Rikki_Fawkes
        Originally Posted by jasonboom View Post


        I was going to mention the "alot" misuse, but I figured I was already skating on thin ice with some of the posters... so I didn't push it. :p
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        • Profile picture of the author J. R. Hendrix
          My wife's a reading professor and she could give you a list of incorrectly used words as long as her arm. It's really a shame how the caliber of college student has been 'dumbed' down in the last 20 to 30 years...
          Grammer and spelling just isn't stressed like it used to be.
          And yeah, the one that gets to me is 'loose' when they mean 'lose':confused:
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          • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
            I do expect those who claim to be "professional" writers and native English speakers to have mastered their craft; especially if they are charging for their expertise.
            You are right. One would expect the proper use of the much abused semi-colon from those calling themselves professional writers, as well.

            uw-madison writing center writer's handbook

            Moral of the story: When playing the wombat, be sure your post is perfect.

            Tina
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            • Profile picture of the author George Wright
              Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

              You are right. One would expect the proper use of the much abused semi-colon from those calling themselves professional writers, as well.

              uw-madison writing center writer's handbook

              Moral of the story: When playing the wombat, be sure your post is perfect.

              Tina
              Tina,

              I'm tempted to spend a few minutes going to all Wombats' other posts and finding all the errors in them.

              George Wright
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        • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
          Originally Posted by Rikki_Fawkes View Post

          I figured I was already skating on thin ice with some of the posters... so I didn't push it. :p
          Thin ice?

          Don't worry about something like that. It's not like you'd be
          fracturing the TOS, here.

          If some posters get their boxers all twisted-up, and they're
          even turning a calming shade of blue... oh well.


          Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay Zee
    Not sure if you are serious OP.

    This is a marketing forum, not "I have a major in english literature".

    I don't care if someone has spelling mistakes. What is more important is the message being conveyed.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    This is a marketing forum, not "I have a major in english literature".

    I don't think it takes a major in English to know when to use there, their, or they're.

    Most of us are in the information marketing business. If we were in the business of selling hot dogs and the hot dogs smelled, I'd be hesitant about buying the product. Same is true with information products. --Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author George Chernikov
    I'm with the "who cares" crowd, having met many successful people who would make the same mistake because they can't be bothered to proofread.

    I mean, that's what secretaries are there for...
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  • Profile picture of the author terryd
    Please refer to this thread:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...9-lol-hmm.html :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author RyanLeonard
    Originally Posted by Rikki_Fawkes View Post

    ... the next 100 instances of posts containing "there" when "their" or "they're" should be used instead!

    I wonder just how much post credibility, website credibility and article quality would all improve if we quit misusing these two words. I have seen these mistakes more times today for some reason than ever before - on Warrior Forum alone.

    So what will it be? A hefty fine? Or bodily punishment? You vote!

    And yes, this is a money-making thread. If you choose "hefty fine," the money goes to anyone who catches the poster - in other words, a bounty. And I wouldn't complain about taking a small 10% cut myself, thank you very much.
    I'm glad you reminded me, I was starting to think this was an internet marketing forum instead of an English/Grammar forum. Thanks for the reminder.

    -Ryan



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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    If people would only take the time they waste worrying about what other people do and apply that time to their own business they'd be a lot farther ahead and aggravate a lot fewer people.
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  • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
    I'm with the OP, assuming she was being lighthearted, which I think she was. For native English speakers that got past the 6th grade, the kinds of mistakes you see people make all the time are real head-shakers.

    Nothing wrong with a little reminder. She's not saying you have to be perfect, nor is she serious about the fines (I hope). It really does reflect a bit poorly on wherever you went to school if you keep abusing the apostrophe key, while writing in your mother tongue. I'll still buy your product, but it wouldn't hurt to proofread your next one.

    Also, as a fan of the English language, and good writing, I find it a bit sad that people think using something approaching proper grammar is irrelevant unless you're on a forum that is specifically about that subject. Proper language should be used because it's our medium of communication, regardless what the topic is.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rikki_Fawkes
    Of course I'm not serious.

    All I wanted to find out by writing this post was:

    A. Who even noticed
    B. Who even cared
    C. Who agreed with me
    D. Who would vehemently disagree with me

    ...and I think I figured that out. In fact, I didn't expect to get so many replies - I figured it'd be buried in no time.

    As for the "foreign" thing - I was only using the word in the sense of addressing the previous post. And yes, there are certainly many "English-speaking" non-American countries, no doubt - I don't deny that.

    So no, I'm not serious, and no, I'm not trying to be a pain; I thought it would just be a fun test to see who took which side. No biggie. Really.
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      Originally Posted by Rikki_Fawkes View Post


      So no, I'm not serious, and no, I'm not trying to be a pain; I thought it would just be a fun test to see who took which side. No biggie. Really.
      So you just thought it would be fun to poke the bear?
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  • Profile picture of the author Woody C
    It want make a difference.

    Their too many of whom are not native English speakers.

    I'm with the OP and I say charge them when they make a mistake.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      There are 2 side to this issue. Depending on which side you're coming from,
      they're both valid.

      First, there is what other people have already brought up, that this is a
      marketing forum and we're here to learn how to make money...not spell
      and use proper grammar.

      The other side is this.

      Part of making money online is communicating with the public. Unless you're
      involved in some sort of business model where you do little or no writing,
      you are going to eventually have to master the art of communication.

      As a copywriter, this is a must.

      As somebody who runs a newsletter, this is a must.

      As somebody who has a blog where they post articles, this is a must.

      We, as marketers here, may think that spelling is trivial. And depending
      on your target market, it may very well be. However, there are going to
      be people reading your blog, article, newsletter, or whatever, who will
      immediately tune you out if they see that you don't have a basic
      command of the English language.

      And knowing the difference between there, their and they're is about
      as basic as it gets.

      And for those of you who think that for here, this forum, spelling doesn't
      matter, I wonder how many people are reading the posts of those of us
      who have no clue what the difference is and are saying to themselves...

      "Yeah, I'm gonna buy this guy's product."

      As sarcasm doesn't come across well in print, the above was sarcasm.

      Do we sometimes make mistakes because we're tired or rushed? Sure we
      do. I do. I am sure if you go through my 15,000 plus posts (many of
      which are novels) you'll find some spelling and grammar errors.

      But you won't find them littering this place to the point where my
      credibility as a communicator is shot to hell.

      So for those of you who think it's not a big deal, that's fine. Maybe to
      you it isn't.

      But there WILL be people out there, your target market, who WILL think
      it's a big deal.

      And it just might mean the difference between a sale or no sale.

      Just something to consider.

      And yes, this is just my 2 cents worth.
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  • Profile picture of the author freedumb
    I guess their are other things to worry about - and in forums people are usually typing fast.

    However, the guilty parties may benefit from paying closer attention to detail.

    If there grammar isn't good than how can we trust them? They're must be a better way!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ashley Gable
    I just can't stand "loose" when they mean "lose", or conversely "lose" when the mean "loose".

    But I make my fair share of errors, I used to use the word implicit when I meant explicit... I wonder if I ever caused a thread like this to be started

    I can see where you're coming from though, your "their" problem is my "lose" problem.

    Best way I can explain it to people is it is much the same as when someone scratches their fingernails down a chalkboard. I can't help but cringe.
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  • Profile picture of the author candoit2
    Originally Posted by Rikki_Fawkes View Post

    ... the next 100 instances of posts containing "there" when "their" or "they're" should be used instead!

    I wonder just how much post credibility, website credibility and article quality would all improve if we quit misusing these two words. I have seen these mistakes more times today for some reason than ever before - on Warrior Forum alone.

    So what will it be? A hefty fine? Or bodily punishment? You vote!

    And yes, this is a money-making thread. If you choose "hefty fine," the money goes to anyone who catches the poster - in other words, a bounty. And I wouldn't complain about taking a small 10% cut myself, thank you very much.
    I am all for this. Next, let's get those who post off topic threads on the main forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Justin Boland
    The penalty is self-inflicted: you look like an idiot when you do it.

    I reckon that's plenty.
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  • Profile picture of the author eQuus
    Some of the negative replies to OP indicates that illiteracy among IMers is pervasive -- and they're proud of their inability to write correctly. I for one would not buy anything from someone who axe me to bye his product. Correct English and grammar is vital for success as a marketer.
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    • Profile picture of the author freedumb
      Originally Posted by eQuus View Post

      Some of the negative replies to OP indicates that illiteracy among IMers is pervasive -- and they're proud of their inability to write correctly. I for one would not buy anything from someone who axe me to bye his product. Correct English and grammar is vital for success as a marketer.
      Actually I know a lot of highly successful marketers that couldn't spell to save there life
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    • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
      Originally Posted by eQuus View Post

      Correct English and grammar is vital for success as a marketer.
      Actually, it's not.
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      • Profile picture of the author sal64
        I agree, their always mixed up by people who don't know they're grammar... and how there butchering theyér content
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Buckley
    I was browsing through the "Warriors for Hire" forum, spying on my competition (other content providers) earlier today. When I visited the websites of a few "professional" writers I was appalled by the poor spelling, grammar and punctuation.

    I don't expect perfect English from everyone. I do expect those who claim to be "professional" writers and native English speakers to have mastered their craft; especially if they are charging for their expertise.

    I used to be a professional pilot. How would you feel about being my passenger if I didn't care about trying to fly perfectly?
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    "Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something." -Plato

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  • Profile picture of the author ExploringInfinity
    Originally Posted by Rikki_Fawkes View Post

    ... the next 100 instances of posts containing "there" when "their" or "they're" should be used instead!

    I wonder just how much post credibility, website credibility and article quality would all improve if we quit misusing these two words. I have seen these mistakes more times today for some reason than ever before - on Warrior Forum alone.

    So what will it be? A hefty fine? Or bodily punishment? You vote!

    And yes, this is a money-making thread. If you choose "hefty fine," the money goes to anyone who catches the poster - in other words, a bounty. And I wouldn't complain about taking a small 10% cut myself, thank you very much.
    Aye! This is a great idea! People really need to get to know they're theirs and there's!

    (I know.. I know.. I meant to do it)
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  • Profile picture of the author LarryC
    I think the days of perfect grammar and spelling are quickly fading away. Internet marketing itself perpetuates it. As people misspell words, they become valuable keywords, such as "loose weight." It looks like spelling and grammar are going to become less and less relevant as younger generations prefer video to the written word and the internet creates an ever more global community. I agree, as writers we have to stick to the old rules more than most people, but it's a losing battle.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dwight Anthony
    Most warrior post 100 words per minute and no speell check! Kidding of course
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    The OP folds her toilet paper for #2! :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Cardsearch
    What irritates me is people using advise for advice.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      You mean those silly Brits?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan_Excel
    I suspect that once an individual starts looking at code all day and night, they begin to lose touch with everything. He or she will use words in the same manner that "Ids" and "Classes" are written. It will not make sense to anyone unless it is well commented.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I would like to add blah blah blah blah.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rikki_Fawkes
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      I would like to add blah blah blah blah.
      It has its place, especially in sarcasm, but I agree that it's way overused.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rikki_Fawkes
    And in case many of you missed my clarification post within this thread, may I remind you of its objective:

    Originally Posted by Rikki_Fawkes View Post

    Of course I'm not serious.

    All I wanted to find out by writing this post was:

    A. Who even noticed
    B. Who even cared
    C. Who agreed with me
    D. Who would vehemently disagree with me

    ...and I think I figured that out. In fact, I didn't expect to get so many replies - I figured it'd be buried in no time.
    Some of you got it, and others blew it waaaaay out of proportion. It was a joke! I'm not suggesting a complete grammar overhaul! I just posed an idea - that's all.

    I thought the WF'ers, of all groups, would have gotten that. Evidently, I was mistaken.
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  • Profile picture of the author sparckyz
    What?? you can't punish people for being thick!

    ...hold-on, actually maybe you can lol (joke)
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  • Profile picture of the author MillionairesDream.com
    They're there, in their (clothing that rhymes).

    Sorry I just did not stop myself from posting this.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well, it COULD be argued that putting "the" in front of "warrior forum" may be appropriate. Warriorforum is another case entirely, unless you want to call it "The warriorforum forum". That would be a bit redundant, wouldn't it?

    Oh well, some might say that was the case with "winchester [disk drive]s"! After all, in computers, "winchester" is a nickname for a hard disk drive. And what of "RAM [memory]"? IMAGINE saying "I need 4GB Random Access Memory memory."!

    But 90% of speaking, or writing, for most is HABIT! Just think of all that must be processed, phrases you use often, and how some stuff makes NO sense, and you will see how that is clearly the case. "Warriorforum" is a name and thus conveys no real meaning. It isn't a word. But people break it up into "warrior forum" because that is how they hear it. They then use it accordingly.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
    I take it you're related to Ms. Wombat? Please give her my best.
    --Jack


    Originally Posted by Rikki_Fawkes View Post

    ... the next 100 instances of posts containing "there" when "their" or "they're" should be used instead!

    I wonder just how much post credibility, website credibility and article quality would all improve if we quit misusing these two words. I have seen these mistakes more times today for some reason than ever before - on Warrior Forum alone.

    So what will it be? A hefty fine? Or bodily punishment? You vote!

    And yes, this is a money-making thread. If you choose "hefty fine," the money goes to anyone who catches the poster - in other words, a bounty. And I wouldn't complain about taking a small 10% cut myself, thank you very much.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Rikki - I took parts of your post as humor (thus the "why do you get 10% response), but other parts seem to actually have hit real buttons with you. I responded to the serious parts because it gets old to see people going off about grammar in the forum. For all a forum is, we could write in crots and it shouldn't actually upset anyone.

    The comma issue is the one that really hits me. What's worse is some of the guidebooks people buy actually have that wrong. We can blame journalism for that one actually. Newspapers were quick to delete that one because of line space restrictions - when they got cramped, they just axed the comma. After awhile it became rampant to do so, but the subconscious perception of grouping never changed.

    All in all, though, like I said before, people will make mistakes in a forum because we're in conversational mode here. That's okay, though, because, also like I said before - you can tell when someone just didn't edit and when they know so little about their own language that their products might become suspect.

    It's all good. If you'd posted this in the main forum the responses would most likely be very different. You're in the OT now, though, and........
    Here there be Ogres.

    *warning - read post at your own risk. This portion of the forum does not receive county maintenance and may not be maneuverable at some points.*
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    Sal
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    • Profile picture of the author Rikki_Fawkes
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Rikki - I took parts of your post as humor (thus the "why do you get 10% response), but other parts seem to actually have hit real buttons with you. I responded to the serious parts because it gets old to see people going off about grammar in the forum. For all a forum is, we could write in crots and it shouldn't actually upset anyone.

      The comma issue is the one that really hits me. What's worse is some of the guidebooks people buy actually have that wrong. We can blame journalism for that one actually. Newspapers were quick to delete that one because of line space restrictions - when they got cramped, they just axed the comma. After awhile it became rampant to do so, but the subconscious perception of grouping never changed.

      All in all, though, like I said before, people will make mistakes in a forum because we're in conversational mode here. That's okay, though, because, also like I said before - you can tell when someone just didn't edit and when they know so little about their own language that their products might become suspect.

      It's all good. If you'd posted this in the main forum the responses would most likely be very different. You're in the OT now, though and........
      Here there be Ogres.
      This started out in the main forum... a mod moved it. I can see why, I guess, but I knew better than to EVER post it in the OT forum myself. Oh well. You can even see the differences between the first 30 or so responses (which were, I believe in the main forum) and the last ones.
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      it gets old to see people going off about grammar in the forum.
      Seriously? How does it get old; I'm not even sure I've ever seen it before, after reading probably a million posts-many of them with such garbled syntax it takes me a minute to understand the meaning-if I ever do. Of course that could just be because I'm being dense.

      You could hardly describe the OP as an example of "going off" if that means the same thing to you as it does to me: losing one's temper. (I admit I'm unclear about when to use a colon as opposed to a semi-colon so my apologies to any graduates of ivy league schools if I got it wrong). (Does the period in a sentence in parenthesis go before or after the second bracket; I can't remember?)?. Is it even allowed to put a whole sentence in parenthesis? I just realized I have no idea how this written language works AAAAHHHHHHHGGGGGGG!!!!!!!! (Sorry for misspelling aaaahhhhggggg.).
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